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beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:24 PM Sep 2017

Undeniably awful: Lobbyists for Christian privilege issue fallacious report

Undeniably awful: Lobbyists for Christian privilege issue fallacious ‘report’
By Andrew L. Seidel
Staff Attorney
Freedom From Religion Foundation

The defenders of Christian privilege are peddling the false narrative that Christians are persecuted in the United States. Again.

Every year, Liberty Institute–which has restyled itself “First Liberty” for ironic reasons we’ll get to later–issues a report on hostility against Christians in America. The report is entitled, with no hint of satire or shame, “Undeniable” and it is full of mischaracterizations and specious claims. It is less a report and more a long list of press releases copied and pasted into a PDF. It is certainly not the scholarly proof of Christian persecution that it purports to be.

Their methodology for past reports is truly absurd. They run a cumulative total of all "hostile" events, but the Institute goes out of its way to make the cumulative total appear to be the annual total. In reality, it appears as though every year the new report just adds to the previous year’s report while allowing everyone to believe all those so-called attacks happened in that year. For example, the report cites the ACLU’s case against Birmingham, Ky., for its illegal nativity scene–which the ACLU won at the federal circuit court level because it was unconstitutional–as evidence that attacks on religion “in the public arena” are increasing. But the court decided that case in 1986, thirty years ago.

Put another way, the Institute is double-, triple-, and quadruple-counting these “attacks.”

The “report’s” examples of hostility are drivel, if past reports are anything to go by.

The 1986 ACLU case mentioned above proves this point nicely. The nativity was on government property and was illegal. A court order removing something illegal is not hostility. That’s like arguing that a court forcing a spray-paint happy teen to scrub off his graffiti shows hostility to the criminal. The Supreme Court has essentially laughed off this argument. Justice William Brennan put it rather nicely:

"It should be unnecessary to observe that [a curative] holding does not declare that the First Amendment manifests hostility to the practice or teaching of religion, but only applies prohibitions incorporated in the Bill of Rights in recognition of historic needs shared by Church and State alike." Sch. Dist. of Abington Twp. v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203, 232 (1963) (Brennan, J., concurring)


The Institute also claims that mockery amounts to hostility. I kid you not.

Much of what the report labels “hostility” is actually fairness. For example,the report mentions several cases during which FFRF stopped unlawful church bulletin discounts (i.e., “Bring in your church bulletin and get 10% off your meal”). Those discounts privilege customers based on their religion and force the nonreligious to pay a higher price. Halting that disparate treatment is equality, not hostility. The Institute can’t grasp the difference because Christian privilege is so entrenched that its removal feels like an attack. But it should get used to the feeling because the time of Christian privilege in this country is at an end.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/undeniably-awful-lobbyists-for-christian-privilege-issue-fallacious-report/


"The Institute also claims that mockery amounts to hostility. I kid you not."

Now where have we heard that before?






*Posted in the Atheists and Agnostics group: A place where atheists and agnostics can engage in frank discussions about the effects of religion on politics
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Undeniably awful: Lobbyists for Christian privilege issue fallacious report (Original Post) beam me up scottie Sep 2017 OP
Terribly "persecuted".... Thomas Hurt Sep 2017 #1
Amazing, isn't it? beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #2
Christians need to keep up the fight. I'm sure some will live to see the day when a Christian Atticus Sep 2017 #3
The struggle is real. beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #4
Jon Steward had a good one along those lines! trotsky Sep 2017 #8
The FFRE demanded that Walker's office provide copies of mountain grammy Sep 2017 #5
We've gone through the rabbit hole, mountain grammy! beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #6
"The Institute also claims that mockery amounts to hostility." trotsky Sep 2017 #7
Isn't it? beam me up scottie Sep 2017 #10
oh. kay. raven mad Sep 2017 #9

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
1. Terribly "persecuted"....
Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:35 PM
Sep 2017

1. Around 70% of Americans are Christian of one flavor or another, that is 210,000,000 million
2. There are Christian radio stations in every market in the US https://tools.wmflabs.org/wp-world/googlmaps-proxy.php...
3. There are numerous Christian publishing houses
4. There are Christian book stores in the US
5. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church
6. This country has multi million dollar mega churches and legacy denominational churches and small mom and pop churches
7. This country has the huge Mormon church, which is Christian no matter how much others protest that holds political and social sway over a whole state and parts of at least two others
8. The catholic church, is a powerhouse itself
9. There is faith based initiatives office in the WH
10. Christians hold around 90% of seats in Congress
11. Christians have lobbyists in DC
12. Christian websites and apologetics are rife on the internet
13. Christian faiths of all kinds have TV shows on public access and cable networks
14. No Christian is prevented from going to church
15. No one is making a Christian get an abortion or use birth control
16. No one is making a Christian marry someone of their same sex
17. Congress has passed legislation to help protect, ostensibly all religions but they in practice protect Christianity almost entirely.
18. There are thousands of private Christian schools from kindergarten to universities in this country.
19. Christians are free to annoy others with their proselytizing
20. Christians are free to leave this country and annoy foreigners with their proselytizing
21. They are free to pray to themselves anytime
22. They are free to pray in public aloud as long as it is not sanctioned by the government
23. They are free to raise their children in their faith, they do not have let them watch worldly tv or listen to worldly music or go to secular schools etc.
24. Churches don't have to pay taxes and yet receive the protection of our military, fire, police and get gov't funding for natural disaster damages.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
2. Amazing, isn't it?
Tue Sep 12, 2017, 08:45 PM
Sep 2017

It's like watching racists complain about BLM, or straight bakers complain about having to make a rainbow wedding cake.

Poor things, it must be so difficult for them.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
3. Christians need to keep up the fight. I'm sure some will live to see the day when a Christian
Tue Sep 12, 2017, 09:44 PM
Sep 2017

is finally elected President of the United States. (Sarcasm thingy)

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
8. Jon Steward had a good one along those lines!
Wed Sep 13, 2017, 10:09 AM
Sep 2017

"Yes, the long war on Christianity. I pray that one day we may live in an America where Christians can worship freely! In broad daylight! Openly wearing the symbols of their religion... perhaps around their necks? And maybe -- dare I dream it? -- maybe one day there can be an openly Christian President. Or, perhaps, 43 of them. Consecutively.” -- Jon Stewart

mountain grammy

(26,598 posts)
5. The FFRE demanded that Walker's office provide copies of
Tue Sep 12, 2017, 10:58 PM
Sep 2017

all correspondence between Walker and God.. a reminder that it's time for a donation to the FFRE!

So, we've just experienced two major hurricaines and the praying is in full gear. Every governor and the administration on down joining in the huge American prayer fest. I expect the ark to appear in Houston any day now, built from soggyy drywall.

As if that's not enough, our local community is hosting a speaker from the "ministry to Muslims," yeah, no kidding.The topic: "Is Sharia law compatible with the Constitution," like that's even an issue in this hyper Christian country, but the mere thought of it gets the locals all in a tizzy. Unfortunately, I will be out of town that evening, or I'd tie a scarf around my head and attend, just for giggles.

Hi BMUS.. I think I'm losing my mind!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
6. We've gone through the rabbit hole, mountain grammy!
Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:06 AM
Sep 2017

I just checked out Ministry for Muslims, yikes! I can't imagine they've been very successful, they probably wonder why no one answers the door when they come knocking.

I wonder what the current success rate is for door to door proselytizing?

From the Oatmeal's religion section:



Another one:



trotsky

(49,533 posts)
7. "The Institute also claims that mockery amounts to hostility."
Wed Sep 13, 2017, 09:22 AM
Sep 2017

The same claim is made ENDLESSLY right here on a supposedly liberal message board. That's pathetic.

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