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Sun Mar 11, 2018, 09:53 AM

What evidence would it take...

Last edited Sun Mar 11, 2018, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)

...for you to believe and suffer all the "I told you so's" that would inevitably come your way?

Reportedly Bill Maher is quoted to have said:

"If Jesus Christ were to appear and descend to the 50 yard line at the super bowl, I would say "huh...look at that...I was wrong'. Until then, I consider the story bullshit"


But for me, such a meager stunt would be insufficient and my criteria would likely be multifaceted and include at least the following:

1) Eliminate all childhood cancers, disease and starvation now and in the future.
2) Heal all amputees and disfigured people in a non-painful manner (as per their desires) but change nothing of the past, keep the record of your previous inaction intact.

I'm sure this has been brought up and enumerated before, and since I started my list without any research I'm curious about what you would require, off the cuff, so to speak?

NG


PS (upon edit)
I ask mainly to to create a list for those theists who might insist on asking what my/our criteria might include.

I in no way expect to ever have the chance to inspect the work of some deity and check off the boxes as completed.

This exercise is entirely hypothetical and academic.

30 replies, 1688 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply What evidence would it take... (Original post)
NeoGreen Mar 2018 OP
mountain grammy Mar 2018 #1
LakeArenal Mar 2018 #2
Heartstrings Mar 2018 #3
defacto7 Mar 2018 #4
trotsky Mar 2018 #18
LakeArenal Mar 2018 #19
trotsky Mar 2018 #20
LakeArenal Mar 2018 #21
defacto7 Mar 2018 #5
Thyla Mar 2018 #6
NeoGreen Mar 2018 #7
Thyla Mar 2018 #9
Iggo Mar 2018 #23
Voltaire2 Mar 2018 #8
NeoGreen Mar 2018 #11
Ron Obvious Mar 2018 #10
lindysalsagal Mar 2018 #12
A HERETIC I AM Mar 2018 #13
Iggo Mar 2018 #14
Lordquinton Mar 2018 #15
DetlefK Mar 2018 #16
NeoGreen Mar 2018 #17
Mariana Mar 2018 #22
DetlefK Mar 2018 #25
Mariana Mar 2018 #27
DetlefK Mar 2018 #29
Mariana Mar 2018 #30
edhopper Mar 2018 #24
ExciteBike66 Mar 2018 #26
Mariana Mar 2018 #28

Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 10:11 AM

1. My best friend's 19 year old grandson is dying of bone cancer

fuck god.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 10:20 AM

2. James Lipton was asked...

What do you want God to say when you get to the gates of heaven?

Lipton said he hoped: see here James, you were wrong but we will let you in anyway!!

The one and only thing... the thing I can’t believe any god won’t do....

End child exploitation, rape, torture and trafficking.

Amen

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 10:58 AM

3. When the innocent's are involved

is where any "faith" I might have possessed goes out the window.....

Amen, LA

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 01:01 PM

4. Amen

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:38 AM

18. We always hear about "god's plan"...

and how it's supposed to explain why there's so much shitty stuff in this world.

ANY plan that requires innocent people to suffer is a steaming pile of horseshit. Any god who set up a such a plan isn't worthy of our respect.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 11:12 AM

19. Because Eve ate a piece of fruit ...

Babies must die in horrible ways.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #19)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 11:49 AM

20. It's our own fault for not following the rules...

...that god completely and arbitrarily made up.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 11:59 AM

21. Left baby torture off the list.


Rules don’t matter anyway, if in your last two seconds on earth you “repent”. 🙏🏻

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 01:11 PM

5. What god are we talking about?

If it were Shiva that showed up I'd like to know what the Christians would have to say about it. As for me, I'd be laughing my ass off.

Evidence? It wouldn't take much. There just isn't even the slightest notion of a deity outside of humankind's creative delusions.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 01:31 PM

6. Cataracts, fixing Sam's Mum's cataracts should do it for me....

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Response to Thyla (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 01:58 PM

7. One of my favorites, always good for a...

...well received song.

And welcome to DU!

and welcome to A&A!

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Response to NeoGreen (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 02:23 PM

9. He is very good...

...and thank you for the welcomes.

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Response to Thyla (Reply #6)

Sat Mar 17, 2018, 05:10 PM

23. Oh, wow! That was fun.

"It's a miracle."

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 02:19 PM

8. The whole concept is ludicrous.

But as Arthur Clark pointed out, whatever miracle is demonstrated just exposes our ignorance, it is not a proof of godliness.

See for example cargo cults.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 05:03 PM

11. Good point...

...(and feigned "ouch", should have thought of that)...

Plus I was thinking about my examples after I made my post, where Monty Python has made sufficient short work of the consequences of healing some and not healing all "afflictions" as highlighted in the "alms for an ex-leper" and "bald-patch" scenes:





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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 04:22 PM

10. I can't think of any

The best evidence provided (such as the examples in here) would only demonstrate a superbly powerful or technically advanced creature that we could not understand yet.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Sun Mar 11, 2018, 10:42 PM

12. If "god" were as kind and loving and helpful as the songs promise, I'd be really happy about it.

And I'd ask her, why, as I get smarter, and figure out the world, does my body have to slowly fall apart......WHO thought of that?????

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 12:06 AM

13. Here is the clip from Mahers show



So I was paraphrasing, but I was close

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 12:22 AM

14. An actual god, right there.

Nothing less.

So far, no god is there.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 05:37 AM

15. Piles up more everyday

And every interaction with theists.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:15 AM

16. Two problems: 1. Evidence for God destroys belief in god. 2. No evidence is good enough. Ever.

If there's evidence for God, you would "know" "a posteriori" that he exists. But the whole point of religious belief is "knowing" "a priori".



2. No evidence would ever be good enough.

The problem is simple: How can we tell an infinitely powerful God apart from a finitely powerful impostor?

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:29 AM

17. Leads to the question...

..."Who created Q?"

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 16, 2018, 07:06 PM

22. Neither of those is necessarily true.

1. Evidence destroys faith, not belief. They are not the same. Please see especially definition 3: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief

2. No evidence may ever be good enough for you, but many religious people claim there is ample evidence of the existence of their god(s).

There's no reason to assume a god has to be infinitely powerful. If a finite impostor is powerful enough to appear to be infinite, maybe it should be considered a god in its own right.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #22)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:44 AM

25. But is it then THE God?

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:57 PM

27. Which god is THE god?

Seems to me that if one god provides compelling evidence for its existence, and none of the others do, then that god becomes THE god by default, regardless of its particular attributes.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #27)

Tue Mar 20, 2018, 04:28 AM

29. Wow. No offense intended, but you seem willing to worship anybody.

If a being is sufficiently, finitely powerful to count as a god relative to you, then you are willing to worship it?

Where do you draw the line between finitely powerful human and finitely powerful god?

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #29)

Tue Mar 20, 2018, 11:22 AM

30. Belief and worship are entirely different things.

First, very few of the thousands of proposed gods throughout history were/are believed to be infinitely powerful. Therefore, by definition, infinite power is not required for a being to be a god.

Second, I never said what I would consider to be compelling evidence, and I didn't define what I would consider to be a god. You have no idea what it would take. As I said, many religious people say they have compelling evidence now of the existence of their various gods. I'm an atheist, so obviously I disagree with all of them.

Third, belief and worship are completely different questions. If I were to be convinced that a particular god exists, it doesn't follow that I would worship that god. If I consider a god to be morally repugnant by my standards, I would not only refuse to worship it, I would actively oppose it. Wouldn't you?

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 09:50 AM

24. Well, if God talked to me

I would question my mental fitness. Subjective experience is not trust worthy. I make mistakes in what I think and see all the time.

So some type of testable and verifiable event would go a long way.

Say the Dems take over Congress and the next day Trump and Pence drop dead, placing the Dem Speaker in the White House.

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Response to NeoGreen (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 10:49 AM

26. I see this as an easy answer:

if there is an all-powerful god, it can make me believe.

Jesus descending to the 50-yard-line is funny, but ultimately fake-able. Also, we know humans are susceptible to hallucinations.

Thus, for me to believe in an all-powerful god, that god would have to go into my brain and make a change.

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Response to ExciteBike66 (Reply #26)

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 03:08 PM

28. Some Christians claim their god does exactly that.

That's why they use terminology like "born again".

If it doesn't happen to you, of course, it's your fault.

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