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Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:42 PM Jan 2016

Now Howard Dean looks bad too.


He was just on the Chris Hayes show trying to defend Clinton's attack on Bernie's universal health care proposal.

He failed miserably.


I don't have a link yet, but odds are the video will be up tomorrow. You can also watch the rerun in 3 hours if you are interested.

First Hillary, then Chelsea and now Howard. Just how much self inflicted damage is the Democratic establishment willing to tolerate over these obviously false statements?


Up until now I thought this was laughable, now I think it is sad.




73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Now Howard Dean looks bad too. (Original Post) Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 OP
Translation: Damn you, Howard! Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #1
Did you see the interview? Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #2
You ask for substance from that poster? LOLOLLOLL. morningfog Jan 2016 #14
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service nc4bo Jan 2016 #39
Wow....pretty bad alert....nt artislife Jan 2016 #52
He's not comfortable that he endorsed Hillary Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #40
Did you see the very next segment? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #32
It is more cost effective and will eventually HAVE to be put in place. Skwmom Jan 2016 #36
That was the segment before Howard was on. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #41
I saw that and was really shocked. Can't believe the riversedge Jan 2016 #69
Vermonters have been telling you for years, he's a centrist cali Jan 2016 #3
Of course he is. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #26
No Surprise.. As Soon As I heard He Was The Follow Up I Knew that It Was Going to CorporatistNation Jan 2016 #66
+1 stonecutter357 Jan 2016 #12
The players are def fredamae Jan 2016 #4
The Oligarchy is All In (tee hee) and going for broke Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #5
Well, one of these Mike__M Jan 2016 #6
Clinton's internals must be completely in the toilet. snoringvoter Jan 2016 #7
No doubt her expensive internal polls show her losing ground not only in IA, morningfog Jan 2016 #16
I saw a national poll today restorefreedom Jan 2016 #20
And the narrative at this critical point. M-word. morningfog Jan 2016 #24
definitely. bernie's got the coveted mojo. nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #27
Don't have a link handy, but the last national poll I dug into jeff47 Jan 2016 #70
Who to vote for via Howard Dean: A visionary man VS a pragmatic woman who gets things done! #Imwith riversedge Jan 2016 #8
I saw a thread wishing him death, don't ya think that is doc03 Jan 2016 #11
Hope it was not on DU. riversedge Jan 2016 #15
Can you give a link? That's the second time you've said that. morningfog Jan 2016 #18
I believe somebody said "Howard Dean is dead to me" m-lekktor Jan 2016 #30
Figures. morningfog Jan 2016 #31
I have similar statements made by doc03 Jan 2016 #72
Where's this death threat? When Hillary says something, I need proof. When her fans make claims... DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #29
What has she gotten done? She failed at health care as First Lady. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #42
I used to love Howard and had a lot of respect for him. TheFarseer Jan 2016 #9
yup. i used to be a deaniac. what a disappointment. nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #22
I'm in this group as well. padfun Jan 2016 #35
This interview moved me into that group. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #43
He always had a good angel and a bad one. Peregrine Took Jan 2016 #10
How Ethical of Dr.Dean silenttigersong Jan 2016 #13
Dean can have his own opinions. Stop calling it lying--IMHO makes you look foolish. riversedge Jan 2016 #17
He can have his own opinions, not his own facts. morningfog Jan 2016 #19
What looks foolish silenttigersong Jan 2016 #28
Yes, it was foolish and also shows her "character". It's sad to see. Duval Jan 2016 #62
LOL ... Opinions are only acceptable if ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #33
You confuse opinions with lies. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #50
He said it couldn't happen right away, nor in the first year. THAT would be the Pipe Dream. Duval Jan 2016 #63
Thanks for clearing that up (nt) Babel_17 Jan 2016 #68
Hillary and Chelsea lied, Howard is defending those statements. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #44
Only one person looking bad MoJo. MeNMyVolt Jan 2016 #21
Nope, the whole Clinton camp is being tarnished with this one. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #45
What gets me is the fact it's a bald-faced lie. DemocraticWing Jan 2016 #23
Never really cared what he thinks whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #25
Howard Dean has lost his way. highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #34
Maybe he's aiming for a spot in a prospective Hillary administration? Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #47
Did he continue with Clintonesque lies, or did he simply disagree with Sanders' approach? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #37
He defended her lies as politics as usual. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #46
Thank you. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #48
Here is a link Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #53
I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused. mhatrw Jan 2016 #38
But when they told me about their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse. Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #55
He seemed distrinbctly uncormfortable..I think if he were in his "independent analyst" role... Armstead Jan 2016 #49
Sellout. onecaliberal Jan 2016 #51
I saw it and it was not as bad as Chelsea or HRC karynnj Jan 2016 #54
I agree, he did not directly lie. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #57
I saw Dean speak in Burlington in 2013 at a Democratic event karynnj Jan 2016 #60
I got from Dean's comments that he prefers a pragmatist (Clinton) over a visionary (Sanders). NCjack Jan 2016 #56
Haven't seen the interview, but darn if I want to Duval Jan 2016 #58
go to this link right now Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #59
I will! Thanks Motown_Johnny! Duval Jan 2016 #64
...pathetic. SoapBox Jan 2016 #61
I love Howard, but TransitJohn Jan 2016 #65
Saw it. He tried to claim the poll numbers justify bullshit. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #67
As the saying goes... Oilwellian Jan 2016 #71
It is sad. But, you know, people change. Hillary was a Republican. closeupready Jan 2016 #73
 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
2. Did you see the interview?
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:46 PM
Jan 2016

If not, then you shouldn't comment.


If you did, please address the substance of the argument.



nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
39. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:23 PM
Jan 2016

Mail Message
On Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:19 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

You ask for substance from that poster? LOLOLLOLL.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1004822

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is nothing but just flat out rude. Talking trash around other posters (not even directly) is just petty game-playing.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:22 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Explanation:
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Explanation: Yeah, that post is over the top, even by GDP standards.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Explanation: "Talking trash" is NOT against the rules.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
32. Did you see the very next segment? ...
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:33 PM
Jan 2016

the interview with Bernie where he all but acknowledged that Medicare for All was a pipe dream?

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
36. It is more cost effective and will eventually HAVE to be put in place.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:16 PM
Jan 2016

The health insurance system we have in place is NOT financially sustainable and to think that it is, is the true pipe dream.



 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
41. That was the segment before Howard was on.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:32 PM
Jan 2016

Yes, I saw it and no he didn't say it was a dream. He explained that the numbers the Clinton camp are using are distorted because they are not counting the elimination of the current health care premiums that we are now paying.


Even if all we end up with is a "public option" way to buy into Medicare, it would be a great improvement over the current private insurance only system.



riversedge

(69,711 posts)
69. I saw that and was really shocked. Can't believe the
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 07:01 AM
Jan 2016

media is letting it slide. (well guess I can). If Hillary sneezes it is breaking news.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
3. Vermonters have been telling you for years, he's a centrist
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:47 PM
Jan 2016

He was constantly at odds with a more liberal legislature.

CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
66. No Surprise.. As Soon As I heard He Was The Follow Up I Knew that It Was Going to
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:54 AM
Jan 2016

be stupid... They all look bad and just strengthens the concept that this primary was "Engineered to b FIXED" from the Getgo! Now Hillary is requesting more debates? How laughable is that? Roaring as the wheels spin and start to come off for the Establishment Team of misfits! The more they talk the worse they make it for themselves... Quite frankly, I LOVE IT!!!

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
4. The players are def
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:48 PM
Jan 2016

coming out from the woodwork-no longer even trying to hide their alliances with the center-right ... imo

I do appreciate, finally, their honesty. Most of 'em played the "progressive part" well "on stage.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
5. The Oligarchy is All In (tee hee) and going for broke
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:48 PM
Jan 2016

They will start to get very odd the more frightened yet get

Mike__M

(1,052 posts)
6. Well, one of these
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:50 PM
Jan 2016

"First Hillary, then Chelsea and now Howard."


has never lost a presidential primary. So congrats to Chelsea: she stands out in that group, and I'm willing to keep her in the "laughable" column for now.
 

snoringvoter

(178 posts)
7. Clinton's internals must be completely in the toilet.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:51 PM
Jan 2016

That's why all these bizarre attacks. Right on schedule. Rinse out the year 2008, and repeat.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
16. No doubt her expensive internal polls show her losing ground not only in IA,
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:18 PM
Jan 2016

that is old news, but in NV, nationally and elsewhere. I wonder where? Can't wait to find out.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
20. I saw a national poll today
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:20 PM
Jan 2016

that has bernie at about 42, clinton at about 49 with a 6 pt moe. that is pretty damn close, and that is national. the first two states are bernie's at this point.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
70. Don't have a link handy, but the last national poll I dug into
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jan 2016

showed AA voters were not nearly as "solid" as they used to be. May also be part of the panic, since they were supposed to be her firewall.

riversedge

(69,711 posts)
8. Who to vote for via Howard Dean: A visionary man VS a pragmatic woman who gets things done! #Imwith
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:51 PM
Jan 2016

#ImwithHer

Who to vote for via Howard Dean: A visionary man VS a pragmatic woman who gets things done! #ImwithHer @HillaryforIA #p2

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
30. I believe somebody said "Howard Dean is dead to me"
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:29 PM
Jan 2016

and that one decided to make believe he/she doesn't understand the concept of metaphor and chose to take it literally so he/she could feign outrage! happens often here at the DU.

doc03

(35,148 posts)
72. I have similar statements made by
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 04:33 PM
Jan 2016

Republicans blown into death threats many times on DU and I would be the farm if a Clinton supporter did it it would be.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
29. Where's this death threat? When Hillary says something, I need proof. When her fans make claims...
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:29 PM
Jan 2016

...I need proof.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
42. What has she gotten done? She failed at health care as First Lady.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:35 PM
Jan 2016

She has no substantial legislative accomplishments as Senator and she really only implemented Pres. Obama's policies as Sec. of State.


I really don't see anything that she has gotten done.



 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
43. This interview moved me into that group.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:36 PM
Jan 2016

Being a spokesperson for Hillary was one thing. Going out to defend statements that are known to be lies is another.


Peregrine Took

(7,408 posts)
10. He always had a good angel and a bad one.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 09:58 PM
Jan 2016

We Deaniacs pulled him towards the good but, I'm afraid his own instincts were more timid.
Alas!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
33. LOL ... Opinions are only acceptable if ...
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:38 PM
Jan 2016

well ... you know.

BTW, did you happen to catch the very next segment ... the interview with Bernie, where he all but acknowledged that Medicare for All is a pipe dream?

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
50. You confuse opinions with lies.
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:02 AM
Jan 2016

What Chelsea said is simply full of lies. Not opinions.

Sanders does not want to "devolve the authority to set up state health insurance programs to individual state governments". That is not an opinion. It is a lie.

There is not a 19 trillion dollar gap between what Sen. Sanders has proposed and how he has articulated paying for his proposals. She is omitting the fact that health care premiums now being paid to private insurance companies would cease to exist.












 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
44. Hillary and Chelsea lied, Howard is defending those statements.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:37 PM
Jan 2016

Your saying that those are just opinions is a lie.


 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
45. Nope, the whole Clinton camp is being tarnished with this one.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:39 PM
Jan 2016

She is simply incapable of getting herself out of these situations. This is starting to look like Snipergate all over again. She will stick with her lie until the bitter end.

She should not be our nominee.


DemocraticWing

(1,290 posts)
23. What gets me is the fact it's a bald-faced lie.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 10:21 PM
Jan 2016

And everybody knows it. I've seen people recoiling about the fact that Hillary has flat out resorted to FALSE attacks. Not a slight distortion of record or a distinction between votes or anything, but her campaign is making shit up!

And to have Howard Dean repeat it...why would he do that? Why is he letting himself be made to lie in public and hurt his own credibility? I'm really afraid for our party when decent, good people that I trusted are out there lying on purpose when everybody knows what they are saying is false....AND THEY DON'T EVEN CARE!

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
37. Did he continue with Clintonesque lies, or did he simply disagree with Sanders' approach?
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:18 PM
Jan 2016

I still want to like Howard Dean. I hope he's not lying the way his candidate does.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
46. He defended her lies as politics as usual.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:40 PM
Jan 2016

I am paraphrasing, but that is what I took away from it.

The show runs again at 11:00 est (20 minutes from the time of this posting).


 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
48. Thank you.
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:47 PM
Jan 2016

While I'm glad to hear he didn't directly lie, it's disappointing that he's defending the lies.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
55. But when they told me about their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse.
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:08 AM
Jan 2016

And I won't get any older... ah you know the rest.

Great song.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
49. He seemed distrinbctly uncormfortable..I think if he were in his "independent analyst" role...
Wed Jan 13, 2016, 11:50 PM
Jan 2016

he'd be sayibng something very different. But in his new role as a Clinton surrogate, he's having to defend the indefensible by supporting the lies on healthcare.

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
54. I saw it and it was not as bad as Chelsea or HRC
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:07 AM
Jan 2016

It was kind of weird in that he said both were good but referenced 1993 to say Clinton is a pagmatist with proven success.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
57. I agree, he did not directly lie.
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:10 AM
Jan 2016

He did defend her lies as politics as usual and he makes crazy claims about how qualified she is.


That isn't the same as what Hillary and Chelsea did.



karynnj

(59,474 posts)
60. I saw Dean speak in Burlington in 2013 at a Democratic event
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:20 AM
Jan 2016

One interesting thing is that he spoke of Bernie ' s first election as Burlington's mayor, said his wife, Jane, voted for Bernie and he voted for the Democratic incumbent. He also said the first sign to him that Bernie could win was when he found that his mailman was supporting him and was very convinced Bernie understood his needs.

You wonder if he might be seeing that same thing on a much bigger stage.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
56. I got from Dean's comments that he prefers a pragmatist (Clinton) over a visionary (Sanders).
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:09 AM
Jan 2016

I don't. Without a guiding vision, the result is meandering, maintenance, eventual erosion, and failure. A vision reveals the problems to be solved and focuses efforts on them. In my life I have worked with leaders of both types. We need a president with vision. It is a mistake waste 4-8 years maintaining our current patchwork healthcare system.

 

Duval

(4,280 posts)
58. Haven't seen the interview, but darn if I want to
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:15 AM
Jan 2016

hear HIM defend Clinton. Such a different man in his thinking now. I'm disappointed, but I guess it comes from his heart. At least, I hope so.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
65. I love Howard, but
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 12:46 AM
Jan 2016

he's part of the inside of the Party, and they, for whatever reason, really do not like the fact that Bernie is contesting the nomination.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
73. It is sad. But, you know, people change. Hillary was a Republican.
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 04:37 PM
Jan 2016

Now she's not. Ronald Reagan was a liberal. Then he was arch-conservative.

Just saying, I used to really like Dean, but with this, the thrill is really gone.

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