Explain to me how Hillary would do anything?

[Enrique]

Starting from the assumption that the GOP will not let any liberal legislation go through.

By the way, I admit it, this is a snarky rhetorical question. I can answer it: if she becomes president, she will win some and she will lose some. Same with Bernie.

I think we should stop answering idealistic proposals with kneejerk cynicism.

What we should keep doing is asking if the candidates really mean to do what they were promising. With Obama, it became clear early on that he did NOT mean some of it, for example he dropped the Employee Free Choice Act immediately, and same with repealing the Bush Tax Cuts. But, it turned out he did mean what he said about leaving Iraq, and getting health reform through.

With Hillary, I'm not even listening to her. If she becomes president and ditches one of her promises I won't even know it, let alone be disappointed.* But I'll be very glad to have a Dem president, the Supreme Court above everything else.

With Bernie, I actually do believe him, much more than I believed Obama. I know he can't win all his battles and I know he has to choose which ones to fight, but I do believe he means it, about a million times more than I believe that about Hillary.

*One thing I am skeptical about is gun laws. She's making that a campaign issue, but I will be very surprised if she spends any political capital on getting anything serious done on that.

[hrmjustin]

1. You answered your own question.

She will win some and lose some just like Sanders would. The only difference is Hillary supporters on this site are more realistic about what can get done.

Hillary like Sanders would have to compromise.

[pengu]

3. What she would be willing to compromise away scares the hell out of me

Her starting positions are much worse, and then she's going to compromise them further.

[Enrique]

7. yep

we saw that a lot with Obama, imo.

[bvar22]

22. As President, Bernie holds the VETO pen,

and will USE IT to protect me, the Working Class, and the Poor.
President Hillary?....not so much.
She agrees with Republicans way too much.

* Sanders has supported gay rights since 40 years ago. Clinton and Republicans have not.

* Sanders wants to end the prohibition of marijuana. Clinton & The Republicans do not.

* Sanders wants to end the death penalty. Clinton and Th Republicans do not.

* Sanders wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

* Sanders wants to break up the biggest banks. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

* Sanders voted against the Wall Street bailout. Clinton and the Republicans (and too many "Democrats) did not.

* Sanders introduced legislation to overturn Citizens United. Clinton and The Republicans did not.

* Sanders refuses to accept money from super PACs. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

* Sanders supports a single-payer healthcare system. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

* Sanders considers climate change our nation's biggest threat. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

* Sanders opposed the Keystone XL Pipeline since day one. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

* Sanders voted against the Patriot Act. Clinton and the Republicans did not.

*Sanders voted against the war in Iraq. Clinton and The Republicans did not.

* Sanders wants to Raise (or eliminate) the CAP on FICA deductions. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

Hillary sure seems to agree with Republicans a lot.
I don't,
that is why I am a Democrat, and voting for a Democrat....Bernie!

[MostlyAmused]

4. successful negotiations

If I am to elect a candidate who will have to compromise, I prefer one who starts from a position of the ideal, negotiating from that starting platform. I prefer not to support a candidate who begins from a compromised position and gives even more ground to get anything at all done.

Effective negotiation starts at what you want (the ideal) and moves a bit if necessary both giving and taking, not just giving. Successful negotiations don't start at what you know you can get and give up even more.

[99th_Monkey]

15. Exactly. If I had read your post before, I probably would have just given you +100 and moved on. nt

[99th_Monkey]

14. What one gets from a "compromise", depends on what your initial position is, i.e. your LT goal.

The proverbial "1/2 a loaf" is only 1/2 of what your long-game is aiming for; so this axiom strongly
suggests that Sanders would get MUCH more done, because he's aiming high, going for the gusto.

[coyote]

17. I'll tell you one thing

Starting minimum wage discussions at $12/hr shows me she is a shit negotiator and not serious about helping us little people.

[AgingAmerican]

18. Why would anyone compromise

With people who never compromise?

[farleftlib]

2. Bernie will at least put things like single payer "on the table"

We'll never achieve this with candidates who refuse to do so. It may not even happen during Sanders' administration, but those who vote against it will invite voter backlash.

He doesn't allow anyone else frame the debate and that is how he will prevail.

[JayhawkSD]

6. And that is the key point.

You don't get something done if you don't even try to do it.

My disappointment with Obamacare is not what it turned out to be, but with the point at which the discussion started. Single payer off the table. Drug price negotiation for Medicare off the table. Legalization of drug reimportation off the table. Price controls on medical providers off the table. Changes in medical patenting off the table.

Everything, in fact, which might reduce the cost of health care, and by doing so reduce the cost of health insurance, off the table. Instead of lowering the highest cost of health care of any nation in the world we get this "bend the cost curve" nonsense, which was code for slowing the increase in a cost which was already far too high. We did not even discuss ways to significantly lower that cost because doing so would be "too disruptive."

[farleftlib]

11. You said it

much more eloquently than I could have. Thank you. The ACA was written by insurance companies for insurance companies and those points you mentioned were never even considered. HRC does not have our backs as her attacks on SBS demonstrate.

[treestar]

16. So he puts it on the table

It lasts 5 seconds. What has happened to change anything? It's mere ignorance - politically knowledgeable people already know about all of the Congresspersons and how many would go for it. It's not good negotiating.

[AgingAmerican]

19. Defeatism

...is good negotiating?

Capitulating to people who don't ever compromise if good negotiating?

[Motown_Johnny]

5. She will do things Republicans want done and call it winning.

Think Welfare Reform and NAFTA.

[Enrique]

8. yep

if she wins the nomination, we'll see what GOP proposals she has in mind to prove she's not a liberal. My guess is cutting Social Security and Medicare.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. Check your facts, my dear

The Bush tax cuts have been rolled back for everyone making over $400,000 per year.

So Obama signs a bill rolling back the bush tax cuts for everyone making more than $400,000, but he still didn't mean it when he said he wanted to roll back those tax cuts?

[Enrique]

10. no, those were the Obama Tax Cuts

the Bush tax cuts expired in 2010.

[Cali_Democrat]

12. Simple question which I doubt you will answer in a straightforward way.....

People making over $400,000 are back to paying the Clinton tax rates and not the Bush tax rates.

True or false?

[Enrique]

13. true

[AgingAmerican]

20. Obama extended them

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-signs-bill-to-extend-bush-tax-cuts/

With this look of glee on his face:

[Broward]

21. She will try to work with Repubs on center-right legislation.

She'll also work with Repubs on more war. So, she'll get things done but only to the detriment of most Americans.