Uncommitted Superdelegate: "Her voter base does not seem as gung-ho energetic as Sander's base"

[Green Forest]

Ya think???

“Her voter base does not seem as gung-ho energetic as Sanders’s base,” Mr. McDonald said. “... an enthusiastic base can make a big difference in the early stages of a presidential nomination campaign, and if Hillary can’t pull away from Sanders fairly early in the season, I suspect he will gain strength rapidly."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/us/politics/hillary-clinton-regrets-not-attacking-bernie-sanders-earlier-her-allies-say.html?_r=0

It's hard to get enthusiastic about pragmatism.

On the other hand, enthusiasm comes easily to those who are genuinely inspired by an honest, principled visionary who is a passionate advocate for The People's racial, social, and economic justice.

[DURHAM D]

1. I talked to two high school seniors yesterday.

They are really excited about free college. One of them quit her part-time job at Walgreen's on Thursday because she doesn't need the money now.

[uponit7771]

3. My nephew mentioned it and I said do you think that will pass the historically GOP gerrymandered...

... congress?!

Gerry who!?

I'm becoming disappointed at the Sanders camp for promising FDR reform without and FDR congress

[BlueCaliDem]

6. Shhh! Don't tell them that!

You'll scare away the rainbow-farting unicorns if you talk too loudly.

[uponit7771]

10. lol.... buried my brother today, haven't laughed in a while

[Kentonio]

51. Sorry for your loss

[sabrina 1]

31. I love seeing comments like this. It reminds of last May when Bernie announced he was going to run.

There were dozens of silly icons and sarcastic drivebys telling us 'Bernie will be forgotten in a couple of weeks'.

'He can't win anything with that HAIR. OPTICS matter'!

The goal posts had to keep being moved as week after week not only did he not disappear, he was everywhere!

So keep up the good work, I have come to see the negative memes re Bernie as good luck charms.

Poor Hillary, she just can't get the kind of enthusiasm going that Bernie has so i notice her supporters never really talk about how great she is, they slam Bernie with silly photos etc and so far, that hasn't done much to help her plummeting numbers.

[uponit7771]

48. More collective strawman, no one is talking here about what happened last May or what goal

... Sanders had to meet when.

How's he going to get his unicorns past the historically gerrymandered GOP congress

[silvershadow]

19. I think his election will have some significant coat tails. Don't count out a cooperative congress

just yet.

[uponit7771]

49. Coattails will give us 15% avg greater dem voters in gerrymandered GOP districts?!? Maddow did a...

... story on this a bout a year ago... there's been only one GOP congress in history that has been this gerrymandered in the past.

Coattails may help with a couple of seats at best...

2010 really hurt this nation, we're no longer involved in a represenative government.

Sanders isn't proffering a solution for this...

[sabrina 1]

30. Then let me set your mind at ease, we dont want anyone to be disappointed. Bernie's

campaign is working with and for candidates who share his views on the issues, we are working to get them elected around the country, and the exciting thing is how many are now stepping forward to challenge Corp Funded ensconced career politicians with the enthusiastic help of the same enthusiastic supporters who helped get Bernie to where he is in this race.

Put your mind at ease, we know very well, and Bernie constantly reminds us in case we might forget, how important it is to remove the Third Wayers (see the midterms, a lot of them were removed already) and of course the moronic, Koch funded Repubs and replance them with actual Representatives of the People.

I know you're not a part of Bernie's political movement so I get that you're not aware of all that is happening, it is truly exciting and a lot of Wall St pols are getting very nervous about their seats as they should.

Their corp money is no longer a guarantee or retaining or winning a seat in the People's Congress. In fact it will guarantee a challenge to them by the people who know very well that Corp funded pols are loyal to those who pay their way.

[uponit7771]

47. I care more their PRACTICAL solution to getting past this historically gerrymandered GOP congress...

... not sloguns

There's no mention in your post how we're to uproot the historically gerrymandered GOP congress other than working with candidates which means nothing when you need 15% more dem voters in gerrymandered districts to turn them every 2 years.

Sanders isn't proffering any solution there, just unicorns and the term "revolution"... which means nothing to people who don't have to answer to the electorate or corporate money, they're gerrymandered safe.

[Autumn]

5. Cool story Bro. Maybe she should go back to first grade.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. IOW you talked to two high school seniors yesterday and one was a foolish idiot.

I hoped you set that person straight. If you didn't, I guess you're part of the problem.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

14. unlikely anecdote. A higher standard of proof is required.

[uponit7771]

2. This is true, Sanders is promising unicorns and dismissing congress all together while saying he'll

... talk tough wile leading a revolution.

Sounds good..

but that's about it

[Autumn]

9. Congress and their 14% approval rating should be dismissed.

[uponit7771]

11. I agree but gerrymandering makes that nearly staticially impossible even with overwhelming

... numbers

[silvershadow]

20. That, and the fact that everyone hates Congress, but likes their own congress critter well enough

to elect and re-elect these idiots.

[HereSince1628]

50. Many of the gerrymandered districts in WI contain white, once democratic leaning, men

who have wandered into tea-party affiliations and behaviors because they feel 'the system' is rigged against them.

They hate income inequality and distrust the oligarchy every bit as much as the rest of us. In their minds they are looking to get back to economic security that their parents were. They're pushed by think tanks, owned by the oligarchs we also distrust, to misdirect their anger into anti-urbanism. If you look at the history of much of the now gerrymandered red mid-western countryside you'll see that when you get back to the late 1800's these places had huge enrollment in the Grangers. Grangers... now mostly forgotten, a once politically powerful group that, in a nutshell, rallied around economic fairness. They are the folks who quite literally fought 'whatever the traffic will bear'. That group left a legacy in nonurban perspectives.

A shift of 30ish percent of the prodigal of that fairness seeking heritage back to democratic candidates interested in making the economic system fair for all would undo much of the benefit the republicans have gained from gerrymandering.

I won't say the work would be quick or easy, but the future needn't look like the present. Fairness is a tremendously important rallying cry for those living in non-urban gerrymandered districts.

[sabrina 1]

32. Lol! Notice how the goal posts re Bernie have been shoved around the field since May.

At least we're no longer at the 'he can't win with that hair' stage. Now we're at 'he won't get anything done with Congress because he isn't thinking about it'.

I like that. It's an admission that he will win, can win, is electable after all, but now we're at 'when he wins he won't be able to get Congress to support him'.

Don't worry THAT goal post will move also, like all the others.

Btw, how will Hillary get Congress to do what she wants to do? Or is she only TELLING us she wants to do things she doesn't intend to do?

[uponit7771]

45. No I don't notice, I didn't set the goal post so the collective strawman doesn't apply here...

... and it takes a second to figure out what Sanders game plan is which is now obvious; promise unicorns and don't mention the historically gerrymandered GOP congress as an obstacle ... win all kinds of enthusiasm then scream at others in charge for not being mad enough so they can be labeled sell outs.

[Sheepshank]

55. Bernie has multiple problems with any path to the Whitehouse

What you think you see, and attempt to dismiss as moving goal posts should better be described as a field of goal posts.

[BlueCaliDem]

4. "On the other hand, ...

enthusiasm comes easily to those who are genuinely inspired by an honest, principled visionary who is a passionate advocate for The People's racial, social, and economic justice."

[Thinkingabout]

21. Agreed, we continue to work for the ultimate goal of electing Hillary as president.

[BlueCaliDem]

23. I guess they expect us to wave our arms and dance and sing to "Dancing on the Ceiling" while

we're at it. I mean...really?

[Thinkingabout]

26. We are busy working and less time complaining.

[BlueCaliDem]

67. It's all they really have, isn't it? Everything about Sanders' campaign is predicated on the

assumption that he'll get a better Congress than President Obama (despite nearly 68 million votes for him) and he'll be able to wave his awesome scepter and have all of Congress - including Republicans - fall to their faces and give him everything he's promising his followers. So instead they choose to...harp on Hillary Clinton!

[sabrina 1]

33. Just talk about the issues instead of Bernie and his supporters. That would show some

enthusiasm for what she represents. All I see are criticisms of us talking about what Bernie's policies are on the issues. 'Oh, he won't be able to do that'. Well at least we do talk about 'that'. Why don't Hilalry's supporters?
t

[BlueCaliDem]

66. If you and all the other Bernie supporters took YOUR advice, this place would be a heckuva lot less

antagonistic and so much more informative.

[sabrina 1]

68. Do you support Hillary's stand on the Death Penalty, if so, why?

[morningfog]

7. There is nothing exciting about Hillary.

[dlwickham]

13. Keep telling yourself that

Keep telling yourself that

[morningfog]

17. Other than her gender, what about her is exciting to you??

Because she is uninspiring, untrustworthy, and not liked. Her policies positions are not exciting or bold. Her past decisions have been disasterous.

[dlwickham]

57. She's the most qualified candidate I can remember

She's the most qualified candidate I can remember

She had a 25% lead over sanders in national polls

Other candidates including Sanders have gone negative against her which shows desperation

If you can't make points on policy you go personal

[snoringvoter]

59. Qualified yes.

1) Is she a native born citizen. Yes
2) Is she at least 35? Yes
3) Has this candidate lived in the United States for at least 14 years?

Most qualified yes.

Is she a good choice? No.

[morningfog]

61. You didn't really answer what is exciting about her.

You said she has a lead and that Sanders wet negative, which isn't even true. That you consider her qualified excited you? That makes no sense.

[dlwickham]

64. Really?

[jmowreader]

24. Adults prefer attainability to excitement

I believe Hillary's platform is more attainable than Sanders' is. Regardless of how exciting the two candidates are (and I'll readily agree Hillary Clinton is boring as whale shit), the mark of success on January 19, 2025, will be "how much did this president accomplish" not "how exciting was this president as a candidate." By that standard, Hillary - who's not running on a "New York Wages in Nebraska, Bust Up the Banks, Free College for All and Single Payer Healthcare" platform - will be a more successful president than Bernie.

By comparison, some of the things Bernie wants to do are about as feasible as some of Donald Trump's more far-fetched schemes - his bank breakup plan comes instantly to mind.

[sabrina 1]

34. What does that mean? 'Attainability'? Attainability to WHAT? What will she do when she

'attains'? How is she going to get a Congress of Repubs who hate her, to help her do anything at all?

Are her supporters expecting some magical change of heart among Repubs re the Clinton name alone?

She did talk about 'compromise' airc. What does that mean? She expects THEM to compromise, or SHE will compromise?

Bernie won't compromise with political terrorists, we know that. But then he HAS managed to get things done with the help of Repubs, on HIS Terms. She accomplished little while in the Senate, Bernie's record is amazing.

Even Inhofe admitted he has to LIKE him because he's 'so honest'. That's how you get things done, that's how Bernie DID get things done.

Look at what he achieved for Veterans which is why he has their full support. Almost the impossible, he forced his Repub colleagues to go along with him despite their reluctance. THAT'S leadership.

[jmowreader]

37. Attainability to the White House

Bernie Sanders, in an America that thinks Ronald Reagan was a great president, Ammon Bundy is a patriot, the Democratic Party wants nothing more than to confiscate your guns, and taxes are something evil, couldn't get elected president if he passed out free beer to everyone who votes for him. You might want to look at what the Republican Party did to John Kerry, a confirmed War Hero...well, Bernie Sanders is no John Kerry and they've been practicing.

Hillary, on the other hand, has already been ruthlessly attacked by those scumbags over and over and over and has survived all those assaults.

Bernie Sanders can't get any of his agenda accomplished if he doesn't win the White House, and there's no way in hell he can. Hillary Clinton won a statewide election in the State of New York - which has at least as many Republicans as Democrats. Certainly the NYC metro area is a Democratic stronghold, but Northern NY State and Western NY State are easily as Republican as Idaho. (Yes, I've lived there.) She's not close to perfect, but I know we will be far better off with Hillary Clinton in the White House than any of the clowns. That is the choice we face: a highly imperfect Hillary or a total disaster in anyone else.

[sabrina 1]

40. Lol, what a sad post. Bernie is knocking on the WH door right now. And he has an army of Americans

very clever of him btw, to make sure he not only ran for the WH but he started a political movement which grows every day and will continue to grow.

Please, Republicans hate Clinton,, that's just the way it is. Your are dreaming if you think any Repub will vote for her.

I know she WANTS them to like her, why I don't know, but that's never going to happen.

Bernie otoh, doesn't give a shit whether they like him or not, he will force them,, as he already has, to do what is right or suffer the consequences.

He has the full support of Veterans, many of them Republicans, who watched him twist the arms of the hypocrites in Congress to vote for his amendments and get them what he believed they deserved.

Hillary was totally ineffective in the Senate. She did nothing, other than try to put forward a few things that went nowhere.

Bernie is known as the Amendment King, he cleverly took their bills and attached amendements to them which he got PASSED. Hillary passed nothing.

He is a leader, he doesn't compromise on principles with right wingers, and guess what, they may not like that he won't compromise, but they do respect him.

THAT is a leader.

[jmowreader]

41. Bernie Sanders appeals to one group of potential voters: Pissed-off young white males

I've seen the polls broken down by ethnicity and gender. Bernie loses among every group EXCEPT pissed off young white men.

Which is exactly the same demographic that Donald Trump appeals to. Neither one of 'em is going to make it past Super Tuesday.

[sabrina 1]

43. Shades of 2008. Obama supporters, I remember it well, were also 'appealing to one group of voters

etc etc. Those terrible Libs who wanted 'ponies' and 'unicorns'. I love this, deja vu, the total dismissal of us then, is reminiscent of now. Good to see the signs of victory AGAIN.

Same moving of the goal posts. Same racist garbage, same sexist garbage. Remember when Obama called someone 'sweetie'? OMG, he was FINISHED with 'women'. Only Hillary could attract women! Lol!

Hey, keep up the good work. I love the reminders of 2008 and we knew then what we know now, Hillary will never be president. She just doesn't appeal to anyone other than a small and now shrinking group of hardcore loyalists.

Bernie's appeal is universal.

[FlatBaroque]

46. You never learn

[Kentonio]

52. You clearly haven't seen a recent breakdown then

Or you'd know that was complete rubbish.

[snoringvoter]

60. I want to back you up with this story

http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-bernie-sanders-fundraising/

[DisgustipatedinCA]

58. So you'd like to infantilize Sanders supporters.

The adult lecture, huh? How's that working out for you, Mr. Adult?

[jmowreader]

62. A lot of Sanders supporters don't need any help from me to be infantile

[Metric System]

12. Sanders plays well to political neophytes.

[dlwickham]

15. I'll go with neophytes

That's much politer than what I would call them

[DisgustipatedinCA]

18. Have the courage of your convictions.

[sabrina 1]

44. Oh go ahead, insult millions of voters, have the guts to do it. Or say nothing, innuendo, the last

resort of the coward. And what would be the price to speak your mind? The risk of a possible hidden comment on a remote internet forum that won't make a dent in the scheme of things? If you won't risk that much for your candidate, then Bernie has little to worry about.

[dlwickham]

56. I'll stick with Neophytes

I'll take the highroad unlike some Sanders supporters

[DisgustipatedinCA]

16. Hello there, 2008. How long have you been following politics?

[sabrina 1]

35. You mean Voters? That's true, he does. Thankfully. Clinton plays well to Wall St.

I wonder if you realize how insulting it is to voters to be demeaned by Hillary supporters constantly? I know for a fact that voters find it offensive, elite1%st as one might expect from people who are part of the top 1%. She and her supporters talk down to the 'little people'. They truly do underestimate the intelligence of voters. Very insulting and then they wonder why she is losing support.

Bernie respects voters. Saw a great article by a new Bernie supporter the other day. He said he had thought about why he was drawn to Bernie, aside from his policies, and he realized that 'Bernie doesn't talk down to me, he respects me' and he realized that most other politicians have a habit of assuming that voters are dumb, 'neophytes' I suppose.

Thanks, you reminded me of that guy. His post was very enlightening as I hadn't realized that I have many times been insulted by the lack of respect I see coming from establishment politicians.

Most of us are probably way smarter than the average politician including Hillary. We all have different jobs, not everyone can be a politician. To assume that because we are not part of that small DC circle with its stupid opertives and lobbyists and 'experts' that we are 'neophytes'?? Wow! There it is right there, the total disrespect people feel coming from DC and in this case, from Hillary and her supporters.

[jmowreader]

38. I wonder if you realize how insulting the Sanders campaign is

Y'all are operating like you're trying to elect the student body president. I'm about half expecting someone to start cranking out "Vote for Pedro" t-shirts with "Bernie" instead of "Pedro" on them.

[sabrina 1]

39. And there it is again. Thank you! I like it when my theories are verified live for all to see.

[Kentonio]

53. I love the idea that normal people becoming involved in politics is somehow 'insulting'

Do you even listen to yourself?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

22. No one is actually excited about Hillary. She's given no one a reason to be excited.

Some will claim to be excited. They're not. Just look at the comparison.

[Doctor_J]

25. They are not excited about more war, more free trade, more for profit health insurance,

Social security cuts, and a $9 minimum wage?

Hard to believe. Really.

[Kalidurga]

27. Check out the replies you are getting

"We aren't enthusiastic about Hillary because we are mature jaded adults. You whippersnappers get back in line it's Hillary's turn."

[Ino]

28. Eh... I'm mature, and jaded...

It's not a pleasant way to be. That's why I'm attracted to the one person who holds out some hope for this country... Sanders!

Otherwise, why bother. Hillary?

[sabrina 1]

36. Yes they are always so condescending with little to be condescending about. But it

has that DC elitist aura about it. 'We are above you little people' and nothing could be further from the truth.

[Green Forest]

63. lol! They said the same sort of things + racist shit in 2007-2008 to try and depress Obama supporters.

I like the idea of Nina Turner as VP, by the way.

[marmar]

29. That much is clear.

I was in Ann Arbor today. Plenty of Bernie signs and bumper stickers. 1 Hillary bumper sticker.

[Uncle Joe]

42. I don't have anything against pragmatism but if it doesn't have a moral foundation, it can't be

pragmatic.

2. a philosophical movement or system having various forms, but generally stressing practical consequences as constituting the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pragmatism

Thanks for the thread, Green Forest.

[Ferd Berfel]

54. pragmatism is an excuse for Status Quo

[JoePhilly]

65. A Sanders suppoerter found a super-delegate to like????

Which is interesting, since Sanders supporters usually get very upset whenever a super delegate endorses Hillary.