2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton Won Sunday Night’s Debate
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Hillary Clintons superb debate performance on Sunday raised an unsettling question: If she can be this consistently good on a debate stage, why cant she replicate that impressiveness on the campaign trail or in interviews? Clinton was once again in superior form Sunday night in South Carolina, besting Sen. Bernie Sanders and Martin OMalley in the last Democratic debate before the Iowa caucus.
Clintons debating performance is formidable because it combines her intelligence with a sincerity and level of conviction that often seem absent in other forums. When she opened the debate speaking of Martin Luther King Jr.s role fighting for increased wages, she used his career as a subtle metaphor for what she is pitching: principled leadership with a strong practical bent. That mixture, along with her strength in close-quarter combat and an ability to wrap herself in President Obamas recordsomething that played well to the Charleston crowd in the auditoriumwas what won her this debate.
Clinton had several strong moments Sunday night. Ninety people a day die from gun violence in this country, she noted, before going on to attack Sanders record on the Second Amendment, methodically reciting a series of his Congressional votes. For some reason Sanders still struggles when pressed on his gun rights votes; he called Clinton disingenuous and said that guns should not be a political issue. Sanders has run an impressive race and is challenging Clinton in both Iowa and New Hampshire, but Clintons ability to bring him to earth and seem like just another politicianhis weird, Trump-like quoting of polls tonight didnt helpis remarkable. (The moderators helped her tonight by making it appear as if Sanders had changed or updated a number of his positions.)
Clinton combines her intelligence
with a sincerity that often
seems absent in other forums.
The same dynamic occurred when the subject turned to health care. Clintons attack on Sanders support for a single-payer system is, er, disingenuous (as Jim Newell pointed out in Slate last week). But the way she attacked Sanders on the issue tonight was effective: She essentially claimed that Sanderss plan would cause a huge amount of disruption in Obamacare, and thus reopen the battle that has barely ended over the presidents signature program. Sanders needs to figure out a way to answer this criticism, but he certainly didnt do so tonight.
Source.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)Otherwise.
I was a little surprised the the Fox conservative viewers opinion on the winner.
Fox's conservative viewers
Bernie Sanders 91.31%
Hillary Clinton 6.73%
Martin O'Malley 1.96%
Heavy.com poll
Bernie Sanders 89.98%
Hillary Clinton 8.01%
Martin O'Malley 2.01%
Time.com
Bernie Sanders 88.00%
Hillary Clinton 9.00%
Martin O'Malley 3.00%
Slate's poll
Bernie Sanders 86.00%
Hillary Clinton 10.00%
Martin O'Malley 2.00%
politicususa.com
Bernie Sanders 1
Hillary Clinton 2
Martin O'Malley 3
Political People Blog
Bernie Sanders 93.84
Hillary Clinton 4.95
Martin O'Malley 1.21
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)I told everyone before the debate, the media would attempt to convince us who won.
kenn3d
(486 posts)Bernie Sanders 86.00%
Hillary Clinton 10.00%
Martin O'Malley 2.00%
We can all have our opinions about who "won". But the whole country is becoming aware of Bernie Sanders and what his candidacy means to our choices.
:large
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)and that's exactly why his poll numbers are constantly rising.
Polls are always a sampling to indicate the trend of the whole.
.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)http://www.vox.com/2016/1/18/10784810/democratic-debate-winners-losers-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)Isaac Chotiner
"The magazine's outlook is associated with the Democratic Leadership Council and "New Democrats" such as former US President Bill Clinton and Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman, who received the magazine's endorsement in the 2004 Democratic primary; so did Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton in 2008.[11] While defending federal programs, like Medicare and the EPA, it has advocated some policies that, while seeking to achieve the ends of traditional social welfare programs, often use market solutions as their means, and so are often called "business-friendly."
I am not surprised at the author's analysis based on this info.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)No wonder his opinion goes against those of the people themselves.
.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)BIGGGG BUMP Bernie!
MADem
(135,425 posts)on point.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)DJ13
(23,671 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)He even called her out on using 9/11 in a previous debate for the same reasons.
I can't even believe anyone would use the word "sincerity" to describe her unless it is in terms of how she "sincerely" wants to be president. She lied all week long trying to batter Sanders before the debate. She's dishonest, calculated and ruthless.
Oh, and she didn't win the debate according to most people.
.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)The people's revolution are speaking loud and clear. Bernie Sanders was in charge and clear and concise.
murielm99
(30,736 posts)and there won't be one. This is called a primary, and Hillary will win it.
Clear and concise? He was a one-note debater. He wanted to bring everything back to Wall Street, no matter what the question was.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)You realize a primary is when "people" vote, right?
Hillary doesn't just get to declare herself the winner. And nor do you.
.
murielm99
(30,736 posts)I pointed out to you that we are having a primary, not a revolution.
"People" will be voting for Hillary in larger numbers than Sanders. That is democracy. But I can't wait to see how you bernistas spin his defeat. It will somehow be unfair and soooo undemocratic.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Gothmog
(145,140 posts)Sanders had one issue that will not be solved unless the Democrats win in 2016. The only practical way to eliminate Citizens United is to win in 2016 and for a Democrat to appoint SCOTUS justices to vote to overturn Citizens United Sanders' plan is not a smart way to win a general election. Refusing to take super pac money only means that will be at a disadvantage in the general election
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Her owners would never let her appoint those kind of justices. They loooove them some Citizens United. Thats how they get to buy politicians like her.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)If you don't think she'd take steps to overturn it, you're delusional.
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)Breyer and Ginsburg, who both voted against Citizens United.
Gothmog
(145,140 posts)President Obama was against Citizens United but had to use a super pac in 2012 to keep the contest close. Hillary Clinton is against Citizens United and has committed to only appoint SCOTUS justices who will vote to overturn this decision https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/05/14/hillary-clintons-litmus-test-for-supreme-court-nominees-a-pledge-to-overturn-citizens-united/
Clinton's emphatic opposition to the ruling, which allowed corporations and unions to spend unlimited sums on independent political activity, garnered the strongest applause of the afternoon from the more than 200 party financiers gathered in Brooklyn for a closed-door briefing from the Democratic candidate and her senior aides, according to some of those present.
"She got major applause when she said would not name anybody to the Supreme Court unless she has assurances that they would overturn" the decision, said one attendee, who, like others, requested anonymity to describe the private session.
If the make-up of the court does not change by 2017, four of the justices will be 78 years of age or older by the time the next president is inaugurated.
This is the only practical way to undo the damage done by Citizen United in that it will be impossible to get a constitutional amendment through congress and the states to undo this decision. That means that if you want to get rid of Citizens United, then one must support a candidate who can win in 2016 and support the most viable general election candidate.
oasis
(49,378 posts)match the unlimited funds of Sheldon Adelman and the Koch Brothers.
Get real.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)sure getting deep.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)DFW
(54,365 posts)....asking Bernie questions and then letting Hillary rebut them, while throwing O'Malley the occasional bone. I wasn't impressed with how it was conducted, and therefore can't really say that any of them really "won," seeing as how I thought it was not evenly conducted. O'Malley gave a brilliant short interview after the debate, and got to say a lot that he should have been allowed to say during the debate. The moderators' concentration on trying to get Bernie and Hillary to bite each other in the leg, while somewhat successful, could have been done far more professionally, I thought.
murielm99
(30,736 posts)that I have seen so far.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)doc03
(35,325 posts)oasis
(49,378 posts)doc03
(35,325 posts)million people in this country and those three are all we could come up with? Hillary is angry and mean spirited. Bernie is like
Rudy Giuliani and the noun and verb and 911 with his millionaires and billionaires. O'Malley has all the charisma of Jeb Bush.
The only people even worse than these three are the clowns on the Republican side.
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)her clingingness to Obama was a pathetic attempt at pandering for the AA vote.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)I'm fairly certain that it was at this point in the broadcast where I was forced to retire to the kitchen to crush up a couple of Excedrin tablets and wash them down with vodka.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/01/17/debbie_wasserman_schultz_says_debate_schedule_maximizes_exposure.html
^snip^
The Head of the Democratic Party Is Either a Failure or a Liar
Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz said today that the Democrats' 2016 presidential debates were scheduled to reach the largest audience possible.
I did my best to make sure, along with my staff and along with our debate partners, to come up with a schedule that we felt was going to allow for theto maximize the opportunity for voters to see our candidates.
Here's when the Democratic debates have been held:
8:30 p.m. on Tuesday, Oct. 13
9 p.m. on Saturday, Nov. 14
9 p.m. on Saturday, Dec. 19
9 p.m. tonight, on Sunday of a long weekend
The Dems' second debate was the "was the lowest-rated primary debate this campaign season from either party" until the third debate, which "got the lowest TV ratings of any debate this cycle." Or, in visual form:
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Guess I have a good source.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and kept her head above the scrum in the second half. Bernie on the other hand looked about to blow a gasket half the time and kept coming back to campaign finance reform, but Hillary had already knocked the wind out of that sail by bringing up American Crossroads, a Wall-Street funded PAC run by Karl Rove that has launched ads against her in Iowa:
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Sanders does not win the GE. Love the guy, but that's enough to know he can't win the GE. And that is what's the greatest importance.
I wish he'd tell his staff to let his hair grow a little wilder. It's been too neatly groomed lately.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)If the stakes weren't so high, would love to see him run against GOPers.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)navarth
(5,927 posts)which is horse shit......
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)She has won everything so far.
She's won the corporate support.
She's won the MSM support.
She's won the 1%er support.
In 2 short weeks we'll find out what the people that vote actually think. I imagine you'll be surprised.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Telling us that she 'won' the debate in spite of the focus groups and polling heavily favoring Sanders. Again. Same as the last three times.
Whatever. It's expected.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)coyote
(1,561 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)bowens43
(16,064 posts)there is nothing she won't lie about and no pandering that is too low....
And then she sent her new attack dog Chelsea out to lie about Bernie! I can barely even look at Hillary anymore and will NEVER vote for her! NEVER! She and Wasserman Shultz are GOP lite!
Remember when Hillary said she was "dead broke"? Clueless, insensitive, greedy...
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)take away the ACA, i.e. take away healthcare coverage. I haven't seen much comment about it, but I thought it was sad. Sanders was so much more convincing and strong on healthcare than Hillary was, who didn't even try to offer any fix for the ACA's issues.
marmar
(77,077 posts)How can anybody say that sh*t with a straight face?
Vinca
(50,269 posts)I'm getting the impression people think Hillary is Republican light and trying to convince people she's better than far right Republicans. Another comment I've seen quite a bit is that she's gone into "full political" mode and attacking Bernie as if he's so far ahead she hasn't got a prayer. The fabrications don't help either.