Clinton, looking at the long game, paints Sanders as the "anti Obama" during Sunday Dem Debates

[uponit7771]

... and knowing her she'll continue to build the SC firewall with Sanders own ... petulant...words.

Will dismantle Obamacare, not build upon it
Calls for a primary challenge to Obama
Intimates Obama taking donations from Wall Street
Says Obama has "moved to the right"
intimates Obama is weak
intimates Obama is disappointing

and most of that was in one conversation...

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/266221-clinton-accuses-sanders-of-disloyalty-to-obama

She's using the correct wordings too, disloyal... not just a hater... who is someone from the outside to be brushed off and quickly dismissed like Sanders associate Cornell West.

but someone who's betrayed a trust... someone who's .... "acting funny"

This should be interesting, Sanders puts on a show in SC with many Obama coalition votes then this could get good... he gets trounced in SC then never mind...

Your take?

[EdwardBernays]

1. Depends

if you think the Obama legacy was good and needs to be built on, or if we need a revolution to change as much as possible... The Obama administration was just as corrupt as others... and he is currently - as commander in chief - responsible for the war crimes being committed in Yemen, where US troops are starving millions, and bombing civilians, and as a lovely side-effect helping ISIS and al Qaeda.

So if we just need to tweak our corruption and horrible foreign policy blunders then yes, vote for Hillary.

[FreakinDJ]

2. Obama's Wall St legacy helped build the Tea Party

[BlueMTexpat]

4. The Kochs built, supported

and funded the Tea Party, in large part using "Obamacare repeal" as the rallying cry. Obama's accession to the WH was its racially-charged basis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

The Wall Street bailout actually occurred under the Bush Administration, so it's not really "Obama's Wall St legacy." If anything, Obama contributed to some relief for homeowners and helped the automobile industry get back on its feet.

The GOPer memes are strong with you, methinks.

[FreakinDJ]

7. That would be AFTER the Koch Bros got involved

The movement originally rallied around the Robo-Signing and the foreclosure crisis

https://www.richmondteaparty.com/wall-street-enjoys-a-different-set-of-rules/

[KittyWampus]

21. Incorrect. Furthermore, Obama had nothing to do w/subprime mortgage crisis.

And his response helped set the stage for a slow recovery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_responses_to_the_subprime_crisis

[FreakinDJ]

23. This is what I mean by "Wall St Legacy"

Lawrence Summers.[10] Summers was his mentor,

As President of the New York Fed, he served as Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.[27] In May 2007, he worked to reduce the capital required to run a bank.[24]

Geithner had the authority to decide what to do with the second tranche of $350 billion from the $700 billion banking bailout bill passed by Congress in October 2008. He was not mandated to seek Congressional approval, but went to Congress on February 10–11, 2009 to explain his plans. Under the Financial Stability Plan, he proposed to create a new investment fund to provide a market for the legacy loans and securities—the so-called “toxic assets”—burdening the financial system, using a mix of taxpayer and private money.[43] He also proposed to expand a lending program that would spend as much as $1 trillion to cover the decline in the issuance of securities backed by consumer loans. He further proposed to give banks new infusions of capital with which to lend. In exchange, banks would have to cut the salaries and perks of their executives and sharply limit dividends and corporate acquisitions.[44][45] The plan was criticized by Nobel Prize–winning economist Paul Krugman[46] as well as fellow Nobel laureate and former World Bank Chief Economist Joseph Stiglitz.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Geithner

[sufrommich]

5. It wasn't Obama's "Wall Street legacy" that helped

build the Tea Party,it was the color of his skin that spurred them on. Whitewashing their absolute racist history to suit an agenda is bullshit.

[dsc]

6. that is a flat out lie

First, the act they supposedly had the most problem with occurred under Bush. Second, the tea baggers are nothing new, they are the direct ideological descendants of the birchers. And no, Obama didn't build that.

[emulatorloo]

8. Unmitigated bullshit. MSM mainstreamed Birthers and John Birchers and put them on tv

Non stop.

Koch Brothers funded them as useful tools in their fight against the ACA.

The marginalized crazies we've had for decades were all the sudden legitimized by the talking asses (oh I mean heads)

The Republicans promoted them too, and soon ever extremist whack job crawled out the woodwork bearing a racist anti-Obama sign in one fist and a "keep the Government away from my Medicare" sign in the other.


As to the wall-street bail out, that was Bush admin. No matter how many times Palin claimed it was Obama's watch it was a fucking lie. It is still a lie, and it will always be a lie.

[FreakinDJ]

9. Larry Summers, the senior economic adviser to President-elect Barack Obama

Secrets and Lies of the Bailout

The bailout deceptions came early, late and in between. There were lies told in the first moments of their inception, and others still being told four years later. The lies, in fact, were the most important mechanisms of the bailout. The only reason investors haven't run screaming from an obviously corrupt financial marketplace is because the government has gone to such extraordinary lengths to sell the narrative that the problems of 2008 have been fixed. Investors may not actually believe the lie, but they are impressed by how totally committed the government has been, from the very beginning, to selling it.

But within days of passage, the Fed and the Treasury unilaterally decided to abandon the planned purchase of toxic assets in favor of direct injections of billions in cash into companies like Goldman and Citigroup. Overnight, Section 109 was unceremoniously ditched, and what was pitched as a bailout of both banks and homeowners instantly became a bank-only operation – marking the first in a long series of moves in which bailout officials either casually ignored or openly defied their own promises with regard to TARP.

Congress was furious. "We've been lied to," fumed Rep. David Scott, a Democrat from Georgia. Rep. Elijah Cummings, a Democrat from Maryland, raged at transparently douchey TARP administrator (and Goldman banker) Neel Kashkari, calling him a "chump" for the banks. And the anger was bipartisan: Republican senators David Vitter of Louisiana and James Inhofe of Oklahoma were so mad about the unilateral changes and lack of oversight that they sponsored a bill in January 2009 to cancel the remaining $350 billion of TARP.

So what did bailout officials do? They put together a proposal full of even bigger deceptions to get it past Congress a second time. That process began almost exactly four years ago – on January 12th and 15th, 2009 – when Larry Summers, the senior economic adviser to President-elect Barack Obama, sent a pair of letters to Congress. The pudgy, stubby­fingered former World Bank economist, who had been forced out as Harvard president for suggesting that women lack a natural aptitude for math and science, begged legislators to reject Vitter's bill and leave TARP alone.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/secret-and-lies-of-the-bailout-20130104

[hrmjustin]

10. Some of you will make up anything to fit your narrative.

The tea party formed right after he took office.

[uponit7771]

16. This is absurdly non factual... what winger site was this derived from?

[BeyondGeography]

3. Pretty smart when you look at his ratings

with Democrats (not that you'd know it from the spew you can regularly read on this board, of course).

93 percent approval among those definitely planning to caucus in Iowa isn't bad, e.g.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshuaGreen/status/688927379260096513?p=v

After watching the 2008 contest it's amusing to see her use Obama to put Bernie on the defensive, but in a SC debate it was good politics. I expect we'll see more of that.

[hollowdweller]

11. I'm not sure this is a good strategy for Clinton.

A lot of swing voters seem to favor Bernie. Even some republican leaning ones. They don't feel Obama did anything for them and they also oppose gun control.

Could this be why Clinton is favored by a majority of democrats but Sanders polls better against the GOP??

Could dems be doing like they did when they rejected straight talking Howard Dean in favor of Kerry who they thought was more electable?

[uponit7771]

17. No, Kerry was down 2% of AA voters from Gore for a reason... he never reached out either

... and that bit him.

Sanders is more like Kerry, not reaching out till PoC are needed... now there are two under cultures in America that need to be addressed.

Develope a relationship and there will be strong outcomes

[Motown_Johnny]

12. Wanting to build on something is not being "anti".

Hillary is status quo and Bernie is for change.


You can try to spin that any way you want, but that doesn't alter reality.

In case you haven't noticed, the vast majority of the country is looking for more change. Even those of us who are proud to have Barack Obama as our President.

[oasis]

13. Wow. Seems as though a few DUers would have been okay with Bernie's

idea of a primary challenge for Obama.

[Armstead]

14. I would have been. It would merely have been a token opponent to keep issues at the forefront

No one -- including Sanders -- had a remote idea that a primary challenger would have had any impact on Obama's nomination or re-election.

But it would have been good to at least had a discussion of issues, which is one of the things elections are supposed to be about.

[oasis]

15. Bernie had a chance to explain this "token" idea during the debate.

instead, he pretended that he was 100% behind Obama. Out of character for a "straight shooting" candidate.

[Armstead]

19. "You're either for us or against us." That sounds a whole lot like a Republican

It is possible to basically support someone and also have disagreements. And if one has a conscience, one should express those disagreements.

This "my way or the highway" is bullshit. And people says Sanders's opponents are "purists"? Jeecumbs.

[oasis]

22. Can you explain why Bernie didn't own it?

You make a good case for the need of honest disagreements. Bernie had his chance on the national stage.

[Armstead]

24. Part of it is that format

It often happens in debates where one candidate says something the other candidate could/should challenge but the moderator doesn't allow it and moves on to the next question.

Or, as seemed to be the case here, so much stuff gets flung around that there isn't a chance to get into fine points and specifics.

It seemed to me that was the case here. Rather than explain all of the circumstances, Bernie had to go to the basic point, which he did by saying he supports Obama but has some disagreemnents.

[uponit7771]

20. +1

[uponit7771]

18. Yeap, they think everyone else was as frustrated with him as they were