2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWho else wanted single-payer universal healthcare over the ACA?
If I recall correctly, most of us did during that time. So we got the ACA - not perfect, but we resigned ourselves into believing it's a stepping stone to something better. A baby step.
Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible.
I work with a woman who needs a liver transplant; she's been on the donor list for a few months now. Our employer decided to switch insurance companies at the end of 2015, with new coverage from a new company starting Jan 1. Even though ACA took care of the pre-existing illness issue, my co-worker is now in a state of limbo while the new insurance co. reviews her records and determines what they will and will not cover. During this period of time, she has NO coverage.
She is waiting right now, and said she prays every day the phone won't ring to tell her they found a liver because she's not covered yet.
This is a serious situation. Her life should not be in the hands of an insurance company while they 'decide' what to do with her; she should not have to worry about this on top of her health issues.
Medical care must be available to EVERYONE when they need it, regardless of ability to pay, employment, or income. I supported the ACA, but so long as insurance cos. and pharma cos. are calling the shots, it's not good enough.
I agree with Bernie that medical care is a basic human right. Hillary and her supporters do not.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)enid602
(8,524 posts)The 29 million are in that boat because their Republican Governors refused to expand medicaid. They'll do it with Bernie's plan as well, given recent SC decisions, and the fact that the plan will be administered by the States. Of course, all other parts of the new law will remain in effect, namely the abolition of Medicare, Medicaid, Chips, etc. Gee, thanks Bern!
Change has come
(2,372 posts)I Medicare administered by the states now? LOL!
enid602
(8,524 posts)Under Bernie's plan, the States will submit their plans on how to administer health care. Previous government funded health care will be supplanted by by the new single payer. It is thought that a not too cooperative governor might purposely submit a plan that will be rejected, or find some court trick to suspend parts of the plan he doesn't like. The rest of the provisions of the plan will still be in effect.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Under Bernie's plan, the States will submit their plans on how to administer health care.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)so it's not state-based anymore.
Probably pissed off Hillarians too, because they can't harp on that one-note anymore, trying to
argue AGAINST single-payer, after Hillary "fought so hard for it" and lost, but that was over 20
years ago. She talks like nothing has changed in 20 years.
enid602
(8,524 posts)From S. 1782 cosponsors for the 113th Congress (2013-2014):
The American Health Security Act of 2013 (S. 1782) provides every American with affordable and comprehensive health care services through the establishment of a national American Health Security Program (the Program) that requires each participating state to set up and administer a state single payer health program.
I looked for a copy of Bernie's latest (9th) incarnation of this plan, but could not.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)enid602
(8,524 posts)The quote is from his bill presented to the senate, which is the latest bill I could find on the net.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Not his current plan.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And still do!!!
That's why I support Bernie!!!
.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)We understand what needs to be done for We The People.
and i have it pretty good right now when it comes to insurance
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I would be in deep shit if I got into any kind of serious medical issue beyond a cold or a cavity.
A couple of years ago I tripped over my cat, fell onto a music stand, and gouged my knee so badly I could see actual knee parts in there. Went to the ER to get the wound cleaned and received 9 stitches.
Total cost, $3,300, of which insurance paid less than half, and I was stuck with a bill for $1,700 that went into collections because I didn't pay it in time. So I fucked up my knee and my credit.
So when Hillary dishonestly cries that "Sanders will take away your private insurance" I say "Good!"
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Bernie touched on it last night, by mentioning the under insured, but that got drowned out by Hillary's interjection that he wants to destroy the ACA, and then disingenuously attaching herself to Obama.
Having a job employee provided insurance doesn't mean that a person is 'covered'.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, it's just not right.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)
When I was a kid I got a new pair of cute sandals and my Mom said I could wear them outside if I didn't climb trees with them on. I was a tomboy. I loved to climb anything. So I walk out the front door and noticed what looked like a bird's nest in an evergreen tall shrubby/tree by the front porch. Of course I climbed it, and my sandals slipped and my knee landed on a cut-off branch, and was cut badly. My pissed off mother took me to the doctor (no emergency room thank goodness) for stitches. The doc was cleaning it up and pulled out a nice big chunk of branch and laughed about it. We thought it was part of my knee.
Anyway, my Mom got a regular doctor visit bill for it, not a three or more thousand dollar bill for the ER, which is insane. Hopefully single payer will eliminate the need for ER's treating all emergencies and more urgent care clinics will open up to treat minor emergencies for after hours, like "needing stitches". In your case, you may have needed x-rays to make sure there was no internal knee damage...don't know. They didn't do that in my case...not in those days.
I hope your knee recovered OK. I fell about six years ago and smashed my knee on the edge of a board and it will never be the same. I had arthroscopic surgery and it didn't help (the doc did not know what the hell he was doing). I need knee replacement surgery now and cannot afford it, even with Medicare. I sure hope your knee won't put you in this same position.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)homegirl
(1,419 posts)Get a gap policy for the 20% Medicare doesn't cover. I have had two knee replacements and one follow up surgery. Rented a hospital bed twice, stayed in pricey Marin after care for a week, bought a walker and I have not bee anywhere near $500. out of pocket.
Investigate SCAN for the best deal ever on a gap policy.
When I went through three knee surgeries I was covered by AARP gap policy. Premiums $200-$250 a month for their best coverage. SCAN = $0 monthly premium but $5 to $15 co pay for MD visits.
840high
(17,196 posts)Excuse me for laughing - I have cats and understand.
weknowvino2
(62 posts)Don't confuse the two.
Rider3
(919 posts)You cannot get healthcare these days without any kind of health insurance.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)If you can afford to pay through the nose for it.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)Here in Canada, when we talk about Medicare, it encompasses all aspects of our medical care. That is how we think about it. We don't separate the insurance part with the visit to the doctor. Medicare is simply a right we all have.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)Do you think I'm eligible for Canadian citizenship? Moving there is sounding better and better all the time.
kacekwl
(6,993 posts)because my cost with subsidy more than doubled. After buying a new plan to take effect 1-1-2016 after trying to use it I found my doctors were not accepting the plan. Changed to another plan to take effect 2-1-2016 after weeks of searching for a plan that covered the 2 doctors I used that did not have a 6000 -12000 dollar ded. I found one that said they would accept but as with all the others no hospital in my area would accept these plans. I want to know why ? These plans are not cheap plans before my subsidy they are paying ins. co. 1200 to 1600 per month. If we have Medicare for all is this going to be a problem , I hear places who don't accept medicare.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)They won't have a choice. And it will most likely be part of the bill...that all doctors and hospitals are required to participate and accept it.
kacekwl
(6,993 posts)my friend.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)I think that is the law, and has been my experience. I have never been charged interest either.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)You pay a very low interest rate and are allowed to pay it off over time.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)That allows them to do that. Best wishes on tackling that bill; im in the same boat
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But I will not go into the hospital for surgery again or any major expensive treatment, because if I can't pay cash for what I owe after the procedure, I just won't do it. It's the way I live now. I don't use credit. If I need something and can't afford it, I do without until I've saved up enough cash to pay for it. No more interest accruing on debts for me.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Got into a lot of trouble; not going down that hi debt road again either. I got one credit card with a 1k limit and the balance is zero.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I am afraid if I had an emergency I might use it. Like a major car expense. Instead, I try to build up my savings account enough to handle most emergencies of that sort, but that is hard to do, as my life seems to consist of a lot of financial emergencies lately.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Oh what now! I say as the disposal crapped out two days after the pc died, which can only mean a car repair is on the horizon....
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)These things seem to come in cycles, don't they?
I lost a lot of appliances, one big (fridge), and the rest small at the beginning of Dec, 2014, due to a voltage problem. I still have not replaced or fixed everything, even though the electric company insurance is paying for it, it takes time and money before I can turn in receipts of a replacement item for a refund. But since that happened, I've had so many more things die that needed replacement (like my washing machine), or I found I didn't know were affected by the voltage problem, so I didn't put them on the claim...I can't believe how hard this past year has been. And I can't find replacements that were as good as the old appliances I had. Nobody really makes quality any more. It's all garbage now. I had to replace every heater in my home this year, and just finished returning a new one because it was defective. I'm about to give up.
I have been investing in a lot of surge protectors, for everything electrical in my home. I never want to have to go through anything like that again. Never.
I hope you can get the PC fixed/replaced soon. I don't have a disposal...I just have wire mesh screens in my kitchen sink drains that trap debris and I toss it in the trash. You might want to consider that for awhile.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)"Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible. "
Exactly. You can't have nice things, 99%er peons. So shut up and vote Hillary.
What an awesome campaign...
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...a stepping stone to single-payer (which should have been Obama's starting point in negotiations. You don't go into a negotiation with opponents who want no change by starting at the center...). Bernie's plan should be billed as "Finishing the job".
Avalux
(35,015 posts)turbinetree
(24,632 posts)Finish the job and give us a single payer/public option---------------
I thought the right to choice, was based on what the free market can bare, and if your product is a failure, then leave the market-----------------let's see a full implantation of MEDICARE for everyone at any age
Democracy begins with you----------------------------Tag your it----------------
Bernie Sanders to Thom Hartmann's audience and to Thom Hartmann
Honk------------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016
It is about getting a progressive President, U.S. Supreme Court, Congress, and State and Local Legislatures
Armstead
(47,803 posts)No muss, give people a choice and see how it flies. If it becomes popular, move to single payer....or leave it in place as an option to make it possible for everyone to have access to affordable coverage
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Although, I was quite happy with Kaiser while I had it.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Look at exec pay to find out were the money goes.
Same goes for not for profit hospital systems.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)alittlelark
(18,886 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)Who/what is forbidden from making a profit?
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I was enraged that single payer was taken off the table at the very start.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible.
She said this:
http://time.com/4184019/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-president-obama/
She has said many times she wants to cap the amount of money people put per month for drugs.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-proposes-250-monthly-cap-prescription-drug-costs-n432006
So to answer your question, yes I'd love single payer.
But this
Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible.
was dishonest.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And the foundation of the ACA is for profit insurance...which means that 30% of every dollar spent goes into the pocket of investors and not to health care. Any improvement made will not be good enough.
And FYI I have Medicare...and if I did not have it I would be dead by now becaruse I could not have afforded insurance. And if I had to spend 250 a month on drugs I could not eat or heat one or the other.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)I have medicare and I think it sucks.
this is how it reads:
not covered
not covered
not covered
not covered
not covered
not covered
but yeah, medicare is great.
Well there you have it burn that mother down, it's the only way to fix it. Rip out the carpet instead of cleaning the spilled drink.
For some people $250 would be a godsend. who knows that could be a starting point.
Apparently you guys think Bernie is going to magically get single payer through congress. Let's see how you feel when all those people who have insurance NOW end up with nothing.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)It still cost me and I am still paying but without it I would never been able to afford health care.
But I don't want to tear down anything and neither does Bernie...let the ACA stand just like it is...just lower the age of eligibility of Medicare...it is as simple as that. Nothing radical there at all.
But yes I do think he will get things done in congress. Because he knows how things work. And we seem to have forgotten how it works.
We have been told that if congress says no then there is nothing we can do...just give up and give the congress what it wants...those excuses have dominated the last 7 years and because people are tired of excuses the Dems have lost both houses.
Sanders knows that in the first two years he will take it to the congress and let them say no...and in 2 years on a new election is held and he will tell people that if they want Medicare for all give him a congress that will say yes...and things will change. Obama could have done that but he did not.
If you don't fight for what is right they will walk all over you, and that is what has been going on now for too long.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Bernie and us have to do it together in 2018.
Nay
(12,051 posts)even ask for the votes to make it happen.
I do wish we'd stop calling it "Medicare for all" though, even though I know it's used as a convenient shortcut. Medicare has some problems, esp. with very small payments for some procedures, "not covered" etc., but it could conceivably be used as a springboard -- cover everybody like Medicare would, straighten out the kinks in it, get the taxes coming in, and then use Canadian/French/Scandinavian expertise to streamline it all. Surely there are a couple of consultants who could help with that?
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Experimental drugs and treatments that don't have a proven positive effect. That's about it. Whatever illness or trauma you have is always covered. Why is that ok for Britain but not America?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...it shouldn't be built open...
Please make sure it's yelled to the hilt
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And if you have Medicare for all as an option it won't make any difference because there IS an option.
It has nothing to do with the ACA...leave it, build on it, or tear it down it makes no difference as long as it is not the only thing.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)It's kind of hidden so one might miss it.
The OP explains why I don't support Bernie in the primary.
They think nothing is better than the ACA.
Fuck that noise.
Take ground hold it, take more ground.
These BS supporters make me think they support an all or nothing strategy.
Which won't work.
laureloak
(2,055 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)involved.
Hillary will push hard for Status Quo. We need the change that OBama couldn't make happen
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)And I know enough to know that you won't get single payer--which I favor--except by a phased in, gradual process. Passing the ACA was itself a grueling, meat-grinding process. Success was never a guarantee; it was always teetering on the brink of legislative failure; and there were many political casualties as a result (though, not Obama himself).
The ACA started that phased in process of getting to single payer, and the next phase I believe should be a public option add on to the insurance exchanges.
stage left
(2,934 posts)and I do.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)And why, when Howard Dean is on the Chris Hayes show parroting Hillary on why we can't have single payer, does the TV have a tape stream running under him, saying he's the 'former chair of the DNC', instead of saying he's a lobbyist for several healthcare companies?????
There's your regressive TV for ya!
R. P. McMurphy
(833 posts)I knew once Obama stopped mentioning it in his various speech's I knew we were doomed not to get it.
so we got ACA instead aka a gift to the healthcare industry to increase their membership rolls and their bank accounts.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)That Sanders supporters throughout this thread resort to flat out LIES is telling.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)They may ease the burden of those with chronic diseases somewhat, although a $250 a month cap on drug prices is still too much for seniors on SS. Everyone else's premiums and deductibles will increase. Personally, my premium through my employer almost doubled from last year to this year, what she wants to do with only make that worse.
Bottom line - if you support Hillary, then you support the continued control of our health care system by for-profit companies.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Like "cut it out", she wants to Tweak it here and there. But status quo will reign.
And all caps on an accusation...not cool. Does nothing for your message but make it less palatable.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)sammythecat
(3,568 posts)She panders and lies almost every time she opens her mouth. Whatever it takes to fulfill her ambition.
paleotn
(17,778 posts)...more and different for profit health insurance? Come down with an expensive to treat illness and you're only partially ruined financially? Give it up. Hill has lost this debate.
navarth
(5,927 posts)Chathamization
(1,638 posts)Dozens of hours on the phone, and it's still not done yet. The crazy thing is it's the same plan, and it's available in both states, but apparently you need to sign up again through the exchange in another state when you move. So it's been a dance of calling up the exchange, having them tell me one thing, calling up the insurance company, having them tell me something else, then calling the exchange back up to tell them that what they told me was wrong, having it escalated, then waiting a couple weeks to call people up and do the dance all over again.
I've had similar issues every time I've tried to do anything with the exchange (add family members, change plans); it always ends up being months of phone calls where I try to track them down and make sure they do what they're supposed to be doing (to be fair to the workers, i think it's mostly a problem of the system being broken).
The ACA is much better than what we had before, but that doesn't make it good. And a lot of people who don't have to deal with it's numerous problems like to tell those of use who do to simply shut up.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)her deductible? 10,000$. Apparently according to HRC and her group wanting better is not only not possible its unicorn dust.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)elleng
(130,126 posts)We really should not disregard the facts, however, that implementing any such plan would be extremely difficult, AFTER the HERCULEAN effort of having one approved by Congress. Think NRA 'owns' congress? There are hundreds of insurance companies.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)It will take a long time and probably a lot of defeats but that doesn't mean WE shouldn't try to move forward and find a new way.
I don't think we have any other choice.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I thought Obama was all in for a Public Option based on his campaign rhetoric, and I figured that was at least a start in the right direction. Of course post election I don't ever recall hearing him take to the bully pulpit to push for it....seemed to be simply forgotten, not talked about.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Delmette
(522 posts)But even more now!!!
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)did! Companies should not have a profit motive to deny us needed care, it's barbaric.
We need to throw off the yoke of politicians controlled by donors, they were meant to be OUR REPRESENTATIVES!!! These elections are a farce with all of the donations, super pacs, dark money, and greedy billionaires!!! I fight for universal health care and Publicly Funded Elections!!!
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Until we work together to take our power back from them, we are nothing but slaves to their whims. Bernie gets it, that's why I support him.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Roland99
(53,342 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Joe Lieberman laughed at the notion. Joe was not even elected as a Democrat. Joe was needed to be kept in place for this purpose.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I remember that single payer wasn't even allowed on the table for discussion, while for-profit insurers were allowed a voice.
Personally, I want a universal national health care plan, free at point of service, paid for entirely by taxes regardless of who is getting care.
sarge43
(28,939 posts)A healthy, educated population is its foundation.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)sarge43
(28,939 posts)40RatRod
(531 posts)That is an inaccurate statement.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)We don't have decades to dither with a for profit system. That is fine for people making $100,000 a year and above. That leaves a lot of us out.
40RatRod
(531 posts)... please educate us how you will get the repub thugs to vote for a single payer system. It was only by the Grace of God that we were able to get the ACA passed. If we want to accomplish anything, you have to stop living in a make believe world where you think our candidate of choice can actually work miracles. It is NOT going to happen short of a massive overthrow of the House and Senate but I see no sign of that in the real world I live in. Most DU posters are far too busy just bickering about the POTUS race. IMHO.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)The Voting Rights Act was just a dream to a lot of people in 1964. If Barry Goldwater had been elected President, it would not have passed. But Lyndon Johnson was elected, and even though he had to fight opposition from within his own party, he got that important act passed in 1965.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Considering the rest of the entire developed world has universal care that is better and cheaper than what we have, we are the outlier. That is the real world you live in. We are the odd ones out.
The primary impediment to enacting single payer is the uninformed nature of the electorate. That is why there have been no unbiased discussions of the issue on television. The profiteers have kept the American health care consumer in the dark.
Max Baucus, appointed by President Obama to head up the health care discussion would not allow a single peep about Medicare For All single payer.
The topic is verboten.
I'm pretty sure Max was the recipient of huge insurance industry campaign donations and he acted accordingly.
If the American people only knew how badly they were being ripped off by the current system.
Know what a TV discussion on health care would look like in the USA? Exactly, the entire panel would be comprised of people representing the insurance industry or the pharmaceutical industry and, most importantly, some would be corporate spokesmen posing as liberals telling us all how single payer would be an unattainable bridge too far. That's where you come in.
Nay
(12,051 posts)cheaper, better, universal health care. As long as this country is run by shameless profiteers and the population is led to think that these profiteers are Capitalist Heroes, we won't get anywhere.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)All we ever hear on our media is how great the USA is. If we are so damned great let's have a great health care system too, one without pirates.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...and have been for single-payer and felt the ACA was a giveaway to the insurance conmen...
I am one of the many who felt ACA didn't go far enough but whose dissatisfaction was misrepresented by media types as not having wanted any change at all...
I'm tired of all the lies that get in the way of folks getting good healthcare at a reasonable cost. That Hillary misrepresents Bernie's plan disgusts me. I'll never support her. Ever.
If supporting ethical people of integrity gets me kicked off this site then I'll be glad to be gone...
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)although I supported it I wanted a public option. The health insurance companies benefit. I loved the NHS in Britain and I want one here.
Kall
(615 posts)Look, I'm not trying to denigrate the ACA, which had merit to it. But it was really treating some symptoms of the health care problem in America, not the disease in a publicly traded, for-profit, private insurance industry that minimizes care, maximizes profit, and is rife with bureaucracy and administrative costs. It was written by involving the insurance industry in its writing rather than take them head-on. This was all pointed out at the time.
The argument the Democratic professional political class made, from Bill Clinton on down, to the Professional Left sounding the alarm, pointing out that the ACA had been written by involving the private health insurance industry, and therefore would not address the fundamental problem of cost that is central to its problems was as follows:
1. It is not single-payer, but it is a necessary step along the way
2. Once this is passed, it will lower costs despite what you're saying, people will actually experience the benefits, and it will be so popular in the court of public opinion as a result, so Republicans would never dare try to repeal it as it would be political suicide.
3. The negotiating strategy for the ACA was sound - instead of detailing an obvious solution (like single-payer) that demonstrably work in other countries and in this one (Medicare), the best way to go about it was not to pick a fight, but to set up an opening bid that the Republicans might agree to, and go from there.
Fast forward to 2016, and this has morphed into:
1. We can't do single-payer *because* of the ACA
2. The ACA hasn't delivered the benefits that people felt they had a right to expect, so it has not gained popularity in the court of public opinion, and Republicans have felt free to try to repeal it 60 times as there is no political cost to them. They have taken over and increased their margins in Congress. Contrast this to the number of times they propose repealing Medicare (a single-payer health care system) for people *currently* experiencing it - never. Because people like Medicare, and it would be political suicide. Their case is fundamentally incoherent - they attack (falsely) the Democrats for taking money out of single-payer Medicare, but rail against the ACA and want it repealed? How hard should that be to point out as absurd? But you can't do it if you're defending the ACA as a reason not to do single-payer.
3. By rights, the ACA is a system that the Republicans, on the face of it, *should* agree with. It's Romneycare. But they didn't because there is no political incentive, and so it's a socialized government takeover or whatever. The negotiation strategy now appears to be the same as then - propose tepid improvements (or none at all - what does "I'll improve the ACA" mean?) that the Republicans might agree to in a quiet meeting in Washington with Hillary Clinton. Don't make your opening bid something that you truly believe in and force the Republicans to defend the current defective system. I don't think that's going to work the 2nd time around, and any "stuff" that gets "done" will be trivial.
The best social programs, that serve as "third rails" are as simple and universal as possible. That's a better defence against repeal by Republicans than having a pitched battle with Republicans every 2 years to keep them from repealing a program that really doesn't enjoy public support like Medicare or Social Security. Nobody's saying it will happen overnight, but there needs to be a vision to defend, to strive towards, and to make Republicans oppose. Of course, you can't design such a plan by including the private insurance industry in designing it.
And it doesn't help when Hillary and Chelsea Clinton dishonestly attack it from the right in order to try to scare up some low-information votes for their campaign.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts). . . they should have had the particulars fully set out before they accepted your employer's premium . . . doesn't bode well for how your coverage is going to be handled going forward.
And while it would have made sense to be in a single-payer system, I'm with Clinton -- we can't wish it into being, it's going to have to be evolutionary.
I guess that's the major divide between Sanders and Clinton: revolution vs evolution.
Which is a problem for Democrats generally, since most Americans don't even believe in biological evolution.
And, unless Bernie has some wicked powerful oratory up his sleeve that we haven't seen yet, they're not going to buy revolution.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)would help me deal with my chronic pain issues, it also would allow me to go for ventricular ICP monitoring to find out why I'm having continuing problems and headaches after my shunt surgery.
Intracranial pressure monitoring
Intracranial pressure (ICP) monitoring uses a device, placed inside the head. The monitor senses the pressure inside the skull and sends measurements to a recording device.
INTRAVENTRICULAR CATHETER
The intraventricular catheter is the most accurate monitoring method.
To insert an intraventricular catheter, a hole is drilled through the skull. The catheter is inserted through the brain into the lateral ventricle. This area of the brain contains liquid (cerebrospinal fluid or CSF) that protects the brain and spinal cord.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)worse off and many people point out it's not all about me but it is the only story I know. I try to share my story to help those who can not speak up or have do not have access to the internet. I have no doubt there are thousands of people out there.
senz
(11,945 posts)Hope it will be resolved soon.
swilton
(5,069 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,111 posts)Thanks for the thread, Avalux.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)vocal Clinton supporters support universal healthcare, just not now because they support Clinton. In other words they are lying.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)It removes a couple of layers of heavy profits before it gets to the public. It was those layers...mostly corporations and 1%ers who shut it down. Same with Hillary's initial plan. I'm no fan, but she has to be, at some level, disappointed that it's come to this. She was devastated back in the 90s.
It will take a Bernie Sanders...he arrived at the right time and found the sliver of daylight between what is and what can be. And that sliver is becoming a chasm that one can't be on both sides of. That's what's coming...and nearly every industry is involved. That's why I think we see so many .01% "stars" coming out for Clinton. The last thing they want is for their studios to begin to offer less money due to having to support the political decisions of providing health insurance for the thousands who prop them up.
I remember when the Hollywood Police had to bargain really hard for pensions or something and I thought at the time...they are the ones who protect these prima donnas against all of their crush of fans.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)mahina
(17,502 posts)Orrex
(63,084 posts)Who else understands that the same will be true when your next President goes up against Congress?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)It's not just about who we elect, it's about US, and what we choose to do with the power we have (and we do have power as a collective). I'm tired of being told that "this is how it is" and "it's not possible".
Orrex
(63,084 posts)Winning the primary will take a miracle.
Getting onto the ballot thereafter will take another miracle.
Winning the general election will take yet another miracle.
Getting a hostile Congress to do anything to further his agenda will take an astounding miracle.
Getting that hostile Congress even to consider single-payer will take a miracle like nothing seen in recorded history.
You say that you're tired of being told that something's not possible? Too fucking bad. If you expect me to believe that Sanders can get it done, then you need to show me that it's not simply possible but actually feasible.
I see nothing to suggest that Sanders is as unrealistically optimistic as his supporters. With that in mind, it's easy to read his statements about single-payer and free tuition and all the rest as ultimately empty promises, red meat to rally the faithful.
But for someone who doesn't already "feel the Bern," it's little more than empty sloganeering.
Nay
(12,051 posts)is simply willing to start the conversation. We have never had a politician who was willing. A president who would start a national conversation -- including discussion of how other advanced nations care for their people -- would advance the knowledge here. In fact, I would like to see a presentation on the top 3 healthcare systems of the world, explained by an official from that country, broadcast on every TV channel, YouTube, etc., so we can get a factual conversation started. This country swims in a miasma of propaganda, strict individualistic ideology, religion, advertising, and oligarchy disguised as freedom-loving capitalism. If something doesn't shake this nonsense loose soon, we'll all be going down the toilet in a bunch of different ways, not just in healthcare.
If the citizens of this country hear Pres. Sanders and reject his plans outright by electing more and more Walkers and Bushes and Cruzes, well, then we know the answer. I personally will not be affected as a dual citizen, and I can just up and move. But I wish more for this country.
The "for profit" healthcare industry will be the death of us, if something isn't done.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:33 PM - Edit history (1)
In our health care system every medical decision is influenced by profit concerns.
My doctor, a specialist, refused to diagnose my illness because of profit considerations. He knew full well that I had an extreme sensitivity to gluten. He was willing to allow me to suffer, allow the auto-immune disorder to damage my body to such an extent that it required surgery, all so they could drag out the process and gain financial rewards for all the tests to come.
The insurance industry comes at this from the other direction. The insurance industry rations and denies care based on bottom line consideration.
No kidding around, a single payer Medicare For All is the only system that should be under discussion.
How can we implement it as soon as is practical? How can we streamline the process? How can we accelerate the training of medical personnel without compromising quality? We can do this. We can make our health care system the envy of the world as it should have been all along.
Gman
(24,780 posts)to avoid the usual progressive liberal syndrome of creating a fantasy world of great and wonderful things that will be so grand for everyone, then crashing into deep depression when it doesn't happen because it never was going to happen the way they think.
In other words, there are realities that have to be dealt with. Sanders' "plan" is long on promise and fantasy but isn't worth the electrons to put it on a screen because, gee, congress is run by the GOP for beginners.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The rich are going to have doctors on retainer anyway in the hopes of living longer...
Who knows what that can lead to.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)The Hillary camp says it's pie in the sky, but this is a matter of life or death for some. The republicans have tried to repeal the ACA over 50 times, so what makes anyone think they'll give an inch to Hillary. We should go with the candidate who will fight for what we need, rather than the candidate who's already accepted defeat. The republicans will refuse to work with any democrat we put in the White House.
StarzGuy
(254 posts)Healthcare needs to be a right and completely cover all Americans from birth to death. That includes dental and vision coverage...
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)dentistry and other things. I wanted Universal Healthcare.......
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)The insurance companies, the medical device makers, the supposedly "non-profit" hospital companies, and the medical malpractice trial lawyers all stand to lose huge profits of Single Player is enacted.
Look at Franken and Klobuchar here in Minnesota, both bowed down in obedience to the medical device makers like Minnesota-based Metronic over the medical device tax. Fuck them.
Auggie
(31,060 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)or even nationalized healthcare. Certainly over the current patchwork / spit and bailing wire system.
Also, your co-workers problem is very near what our family has had to deal with, even under Obamacare. As long as there are a bunch of third-party insurance companies, changing can easily mean being in limbo while the new company "figures things out".
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Single payer isn't the only way to implement the goal of UHC.
And it's possible to move the ACA forward towards Universal Health Care.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)The one thing that keeps the ACA from ever getting there is that the insurance companies are still involved. They are still making the decisions about what they will pay, what doctors you can see, what drugs you can have, etc. We are still paying premiums to the insurance companies. They are still responsible to their stockholders to make more and more profit.
How do you take a health insurance plan and make it universal health care, where not one person is kept from having health care?
DinahMoeHum
(21,737 posts)The ACA, though, is a crucial first step in this journey of a thousand miles.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Jackilope
(819 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,581 posts)...toward something like a single payer system over time.
She said it just last night as a more practical plan than dismantling it and starting with a clean sheet of paper.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)librechik
(30,663 posts)as the notion that black people have the same rights as white people.
That's how badly brainwashed we are.
Scruffy1
(3,239 posts)I lost all respect for the Democratic Party, especially the US Senators such as Bachus, over the inept way health care reform was handled. It was clear from the start that Obama was selling us out to big pharma and the Blue Dogs. I would rather he had failed, since I can see that the common wisdom is we are stuck with it forever, and it might be true. In my opinion all that was accomplished was to save the health insurance and pharma industries eternal huge profits.
shanti
(21,670 posts)What we have now is not enough.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)the high cost of medical care must be controlled and single payer seems to be the only way to negotiate with coroporate greed and to strip them of their power to bankrupt us all.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Damn straight medical care is a basic human right.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)I'm sick of our home-grown greedheads standing in the way of their fellow Americans.
Nay
(12,051 posts)the ACA. The ACA was NEVER going to morph into national healthcare. What we are supposed to be happy with is the tinkering around the edges -- like Hillary's $250 cap on monthly drug costs. What does that cap do? It says to the drug and insurance companies "You charge whatever you want for this drug! The govt will pick up the tab for anything over $250 for millions of people!" Does anyone really think this will help anyone? Sure, for a year or two, those who seriously need help paying for lifesaving drugs will be helped, but in the end, it will be too expensive to continue such a program. Then what?
Well, we'll be told over and over again how we "can't afford" govt health care, that 'socialized medicine' is failing right here in the ol' USA, and we were fools to think that it would work here in the Land of the Free, even though socialized medicine is as far away from the ACA as the moon.
Hell, ACA is enough of a mess that they're saying that right now, and they're right, essentially. You have to realize that the repubs are pretty happy with ACA because it is clunky, doesn't remotely cover everybody, costs the individual a lot of money for a high-deductible plan, screws with people when they have to change plans, move to a different state, etc. IOW, the clunkier the better, because then people are unhappy and can be scammed by the repubs into thinking that the ACA is what socialized medicine is.
As others have pointed out, we've gone so far down the road of profitable private/insured medicine that it will be hard and expensive to turn around. It may even be impossible, due to the financial and ideological pressures. We are headed toward a country of an elite and a vast number of scrabbling peasants, so TPTB may be able to disrupt any attempt to pay for the peasants' health care. After all, in the Land of the Free, if you can't pay for something, you shouldn't have it.
senz
(11,945 posts)Very well said, Nay; I'm honored that my little comment served as a vehicle for your very informed reply. If you felt like it, your comment would make a great OP in GD.
I've been an Obama supporter for eight years, had high hopes for the ACA, and have been defending it for several years to friends and acquaintances who are unhappy with it. I used to think that its detractors were merely brainwashed anti-Obama rightwingers but have had to acknowledge that for many, it truly is not adequate. I believe Obama did the best he could under very difficult circumstances. The drug and insurance companies are super-villains who prey on the American people, and their wealth has given them great power.
The country you say we're headed toward is what Bernie Sanders is talking about. He is trying to wake people up, because large numbers of awakened people, combined with what's left of our democratic system, should be enough to address our problems. Single payer would eliminate this problem. We know it can be done; we've know medicare works and we've seen numerous other countries implement successful, affordable universal health care. The only thing that stands in the way of acceptance is conservative/libertarian propaganda about "collectivism," socialism, communism. IOW, what stands in our way is a fear-inducing concept kept alive by its vested interests. And, sadly, we can see its propaganda right here on "Democratic" Underground.
None of the other presidential candidates are motivated to get it done. At this time in hour history, Bernie Sanders is our only hope for resolving this, and similar, problems in a peaceful, orderly way.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)It showed me exactly who the Democrats that were and are sellouts. The first of many huge disappointments with the party I have been a member of all my life, but definitely not the last.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)Most of ACA is Republican ideas. But it's all we got. Figured Congress would fix it up along the way. Oops. Except not one Republican voted on their principles because they don't have any X_X er Hillary doesn't seem to have any either since she's going against everything she once stood for. but she's been doing this since 2005. the movie The Candidate comes to mind
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)at the EXACT perfect time. No Health Benefits before. Do you really have to ask whether I preferred ACA to Medicare?????
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Know there are policies called Medicare Advantage.We were told that would be destroyed under the ACA. Not true at all ,just another scare tactic...
Many of the plans cost nothing, but cover what Medicare does not. If you go into the Hospital the average deduction is 3500, 3800. I have talked to people who have the so called Cadillac plans. Their deduction was 7000. Not sure about this year. It is an HMO, but nothing like the ones of the 1970's.
As for what Bernie and Hillary can do,they can not do anything. Congress writes the bills and the Lobbyist owned Congress stopped Singe payer. Namely holy Joe Lieberman, Max Baucus and Grassley. They held up the bill until Single Payer was killed. I watched it play out on the Senate Floor.
Hillary tried her best to get a Health care bill while her husband was in office. And Bernie means well, but it is just a pipe dream. If Republicans manage to kill the ACA you will lose it all.
So time to start blaming the right people, the Lobby owned Congress.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)Medicare far all would save at least $200 billion of that.
I think we should go to VA health care for all. Govt owned and operated.
srobert
(81 posts)This guy promised to be an advocate for single payer.
They must've brainwashed him, or taken a hostage, or something because he wouldn't even permit debate over a public option when he was in a position to drive the debate.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)RKP5637
(67,030 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Over half of Americans want national single-payer health care, Improved Medicare for All.
That fact was documented in 2007, as per the bar chart below.
That fact has been confirmed multiple times since that time, in 2008, 2009, 2010.
Examples of the wording in polls in 2007: "... adopt a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers" (65% yes) and " ... federal government should guarantee health insurance for all." (64% yes)
tclambert
(11,080 posts)The plan called for lowering the eligibility age for Medicare over time, reaching 0 after about 10 years. Not complicated to implement, it would get everyone on the most popular and efficient medical insurance plan America has to offer. As I recall, Edward Kennedy championed this idea for a long time, and John Kerry supported it when he ran for President in 2004. Twelve years later, we still don't have it, and we could have reached the point where everyone had Medicare by now.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)and I didn't really "resign" myself to accepting the ACA as acceptable. But it was all we got.
I was shocked to hear Hillary say that she is happy with it and is not even interested in doing more.
merrily
(45,251 posts)AllyCat
(16,034 posts)Snarkoleptic
(5,995 posts)GREAT SCOTT, I believe we've finally found those death panels we've heard republiClowns carp so much about!
xocet
(3,870 posts)Liberty Belle
(9,528 posts)Before I got screwed by an insurer who first dropped me, then when Obamacare made insurers cover me despite a past skin cancer bout they tripled my rates. Later the company fled the state. Under Obamacare there was a long delay getting rates reduced to get subsidies after my hubby lost his job (took 4 months, because they count your income for the whole year to determine if you get a subsidy). We did benefit by keeping a kid in college on the plan for a while and eventually did get good subsidiies, but now that hubby found a new job it's going through the roof again even with the ACA.
Middle class families are getting squeezed. The ACA is great for the poor and those who were not insured at all. The rich can afford the higher premiums. Others can't.
Don't get me wrong. Before Obamacare many things were even worse. A friend whose colon exploded and nearly died was told reconnecting it would be considered "elective surgery" by a heartless insurer, before Obamacare. He was left a million dollars in debt and can never buy a home or the hospital would put a lien on it to collect on its bill. An insurer once denied our daughter life-saving heart surgery until the doctor convinced them it would cost more to have her in and out of ERs for the years she'd live than to pay for the surgery. All of that was before Obamacare. But if the premiums are still unaffordable under Obamacare for working people with fixed cost like a mortgage, it's still not good enough.
I agree with Bernie,healthcare should be a right, not a privilege for the rich. I would gladly pay a little more in taxes to rest assured that I could access quality healthy no matter what.
philly_bob
(2,419 posts)because they all agreed single-payer would be cheaper and better.
Lunabell
(5,919 posts)Instead we got this rethuglican mish mash.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)that HRC and her supporters cannot comprehend the incredible political revolution we're witnessing, and of which we are an integral part. I wonder, are they scared? Or, do they believe that We, the vast Hoi Polloi, are incapable of coming together to advocate for a sea change in the political landscape of our co-opted democracy? Whatever their rationale for denigrating Senator Sanders, I think they are sadly mistaken.
We WANT single payer health care, and we WILL do whatever work is necessary to effect the changes that will result in this outcome. We WANT an effective response to climate change, and together we WILL work hard for the future of our children, and our grandchildren, and all future generations. We WANT an honest and dedicated POTUS, and we WILL do whatever is necessary to get Senator Bernie Sanders in office.
You know, it pains me to read the snarky comments from HRC supporters alleging that we Sanders supporters view Bernie as some sort of messiah. How condescending, and sophomoric! Bernie Sanders is an honest and hard-working man. He knows the road ahead will be difficult, as do we all. He knows that we will have to work together, as do we all. Our species is facing critical challenges, and we cannot meet those challenges if we continue along the narrow path controlled by the corporate oligarchs.
BUT, to opt not to walk the hard road with Bernie Sanders, to fear failure so much that pitiful excuses and naysaying have created a "No, We Can't!" meme for the HRC campaign... how pitiable is that?
Would that we could metamorphose this "competition" for the presidency into a "collaboration" for the salvaging of our democracy. I doubt we'll get a better champion for our nation than Senator Bernie Sanders. He will continue to have my complete support.
(And, the fact that HRC was not GRACIOUS enough to shake Bernie's hand after the last debate--well, that speaks volumes to me.)
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)'for profit' insurance Corps didn't want that segment of our population moved to 'not for profit' medicare. Insurance Corps would lose a very large chunk of our State/Federal money, and lose a bunch of profits.
ACA needed to be pushed as fast as possible or RW would delay for the entire 4 years of Obama's first term even the start-up of insurance for everyone.
I think that lower age for 'non-profit' medicare should be pushed today by our candidates, and change requirement to age 40 and up. That change in age requirement can be done fairly easy and fast. The system is in place.
The state/federal funds are already handed over to 'for profit' insurance corps for our 'Obamacare' insurance, redirect those funds to medicare.
people who can afford already pay premiums to for profit insurance and get less or no federal money 'help'-let those wealthier people keep their 'for profit' insurance, along with the new obamacare insurance regulations.
mnhtnbb
(31,318 posts)and so has my husband. I am a retired hospital administrator and he's a semi-retired psychiatrist/psychoanalyst.
IMO, Hillary has NEVER gotten the message--from the time she got involved when she was First Lady--about the need
to eliminate the insurance companies from their role in the provision of health care services.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)There was a huge amount of momentum for enacting single payer and it was my main reason for supporting Obama over her.
The people at the top in this country saw what was coming down the pike. The years of stories of health insurance nightmares and of people unable to afford any coverage. The film Sicko raised national debate to sky high levels on the issue. People were pissed, they had enough and were rallying to fix it. It was the wave that propelled Obama into the White House.
But then, instead of allowing the peoples voice in the matter, only the insurance corporations were allowed to speak.
None of this was by accident. It was, in essence, the very least that could be done while still being able to say, we did something.
Once that great push for single payer had subsided, once the people were more complacent, the pain profiteers could chuckle and breathe easier again. All was as it should be. Heck, even better, they were now like ticks that could never be removed. Always snug in the knowledge no tweezers would be coming to pluck them out. But they forgot about the heat. If we can't pluck them out, we'll Bern them out.
eridani
(51,907 posts)If you want $3000 for your used car, ask for $6000.
CanonRay
(14,036 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)We need some form of single payer. Hell if I know how it would work though. There appears to be no cost controls in any of the proposals; and putting a "cap" on total single payer payouts would only lead to rationing.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)My friend who just turned 63 and has an ACA plan....his premiums just went up more than double. I thought the ACA was there to prevent this sort of thing.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)My crazy thoughts.... A national sales tax to fund a new single entity to replace medicare/medicaid. You sign upfor the plan, the plan pays for the expenses. Thats it. No premium no deductible no copay none of that bullshit. Save a lot on the bureacracy by keeping it simple stupid. The single payer would have to have a robust serious auditing department to make sure services provided are legit.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)And if I'm not mistaken 2004 and 2000 as well.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)There are a lot of lazy Americans who don't care enough to take care of their own wellbeing. On the other hand, there are groups like us, who prefer a life of learning and improving.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)When Dopey Joe Lieberman sunk THAT ship.. I realized that the Insurance Companies would still be convening the REAL "Death Panels".
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)The ACA is better than nothing but problems are plentiful.
Stevepol
(4,234 posts)When we got neither I didn't have much confidence in the ACA. However, it did do some good things and deserves to be kept in place obviously rather than the disaster that existed before.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)mostly Bernie supporters. I thought Hillary fought for healthcare all of her career yet her supporters really don't care for it at all.................
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I work in a clinic and get awesome medical coverage but I really want everyone to have great medical coverage. Universal single payer is the way to go!
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)There have been some issues with the ACA, but it's still new, so hopefully those kinks can be worked out if we don't move on to a single-payer system.