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Avalux

(35,015 posts)
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 04:42 PM Jan 2016

Who else wanted single-payer universal healthcare over the ACA?

If I recall correctly, most of us did during that time. So we got the ACA - not perfect, but we resigned ourselves into believing it's a stepping stone to something better. A baby step.

Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible.

I work with a woman who needs a liver transplant; she's been on the donor list for a few months now. Our employer decided to switch insurance companies at the end of 2015, with new coverage from a new company starting Jan 1. Even though ACA took care of the pre-existing illness issue, my co-worker is now in a state of limbo while the new insurance co. reviews her records and determines what they will and will not cover. During this period of time, she has NO coverage.

She is waiting right now, and said she prays every day the phone won't ring to tell her they found a liver because she's not covered yet.

This is a serious situation. Her life should not be in the hands of an insurance company while they 'decide' what to do with her; she should not have to worry about this on top of her health issues.

Medical care must be available to EVERYONE when they need it, regardless of ability to pay, employment, or income. I supported the ACA, but so long as insurance cos. and pharma cos. are calling the shots, it's not good enough.

I agree with Bernie that medical care is a basic human right. Hillary and her supporters do not.


207 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who else wanted single-payer universal healthcare over the ACA? (Original Post) Avalux Jan 2016 OP
I do.... daleanime Jan 2016 #1
Bernie won't give up on 29 Million uninsured Americans. Go Bernie!!! nt 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #2
thanks, Bern enid602 Jan 2016 #128
Care to offer any type of proof? Change has come Jan 2016 #133
plan enid602 Jan 2016 #135
Where is this coming from? Link? passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #192
Which is why Bernie changed his single-payer plan to ONE Federal plan, 99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #145
S. 1782 enid602 Jan 2016 #149
So you really don't know what his plan is. n/t passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #193
bill enid602 Jan 2016 #198
the bill from 2014, didn't you say? passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #199
K&R azmom Jan 2016 #3
I did! cui bono Jan 2016 #4
Thank you! Avalux Jan 2016 #10
me tk2kewl Jan 2016 #5
Count me in! Even WITH insurance, medial care is too pricey for me. arcane1 Jan 2016 #6
Yep. You've highlighted what's wrong with for profit healthcare. Avalux Jan 2016 #8
Ha...sorry this made me laugh. I know it's not funny. Not at all. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #30
Stories, similar to yours, are all too common. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #73
Gap policy homegirl Jan 2016 #171
I say "good" with you. 840high Jan 2016 #117
Health INSURANCE IS NOT HEALTH CARE!!!!!! weknowvino2 Jan 2016 #127
True, but... Rider3 Jan 2016 #175
Oh, sure you can passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #195
Thing is, they SHOULD be confused...or rather fused LiberalLovinLug Jan 2016 #182
I had a gg grandmother and a ggg grandmother who were Canadian. dgibby Jan 2016 #191
After changing my plan from 2015 to a different plan for 2016 kacekwl Jan 2016 #141
If everyone has single payer, of course they will except it. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #196
$3,300.00 .....you got off cheap kacekwl Jan 2016 #142
If you pay *something* on it every month it wont go to collections. Elmergantry Jan 2016 #162
With my bill, it went to a special medical collection group passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #197
must be a state law thing Elmergantry Jan 2016 #200
That was years ago, and it's all paid off now passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #201
im the same way Elmergantry Jan 2016 #202
I don't even own a credit card. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #205
you aint shittn Elmergantry Jan 2016 #206
I know the feeling passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #207
Why should Hillary want to change anything? She and the rest of the 1%ers are doing great. Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #7
+1000! Plucketeer Jan 2016 #9
I thought it was sold to progressives as... TCJ70 Jan 2016 #11
Precisely. The ACA is not good enough, and we can do better. n/t Avalux Jan 2016 #13
Isn't that the truth............................... turbinetree Jan 2016 #20
I wanted a public option Armstead Jan 2016 #12
Obviously the insurance industry did not want us to see how it flies. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #75
I did! hopeforchange2008 Jan 2016 #14
Not For Profit Healthcare Is The Only Path Forward cantbeserious Jan 2016 #15
Yes it is. We MUST change the current system. n/t Avalux Jan 2016 #19
Try Kaiser and other not-for-profit plans. You won't save much, if anything. Hoyt Jan 2016 #28
Blue Cross - Blue Shield Is Significantly Lower In Cost cantbeserious Jan 2016 #100
Not for profit doesn't automatically mean protection for the consumer. Cassiopeia Jan 2016 #143
Truthfully, if they run a good quality health system, I don't care if they make really good income Hoyt Jan 2016 #153
+10,000 alittlelark Jan 2016 #138
what doed that mean? Elmergantry Jan 2016 #176
I did. SheilaT Jan 2016 #16
Me too, SheilaT. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #77
She didn't say this... one_voice Jan 2016 #17
Building on a poor foundation is not a good idea zeemike Jan 2016 #32
Yeah.. one_voice Jan 2016 #40
Well it covered my life threatening illness just fine. zeemike Jan 2016 #58
Well said, zeemike! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #80
That is exactly the path for Bernie to get it through. JimDandy Jan 2016 #120
Yes, well said. This is what needs to happen, and Bernie is the only one who would Nay Jan 2016 #169
You know what is not covered in the UK? Kentonio Jan 2016 #147
Please make sure Sanders goes around SC saying Obamacare is a poor foundation and that uponit7771 Jan 2016 #123
You can build on it all you want. zeemike Jan 2016 #179
First thing I noticed was that lie as well. JoePhilly Jan 2016 #60
Thank you for an honest post. I really hate that BS supporters twist everything. laureloak Jan 2016 #66
Hillary thinks ACA is fine as is because of teh Donations she has received from the industries Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #18
Yes. But I also live in the real world. bluestateguy Jan 2016 #21
I did stage left Jan 2016 #22
Hillary has taken too much cash for speeches to healthcare companies opposing single payer! ViseGrip Jan 2016 #23
I do! nt R. P. McMurphy Jan 2016 #24
Me. Javaman Jan 2016 #25
Stop LYING about Clinton's position on the ACA. She has proposals to go further. KittyWampus Jan 2016 #26
Hillary's proposals to "go further" are band aids. Avalux Jan 2016 #35
Nearly a third of said person's income if they are supported by SS. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #38
And, Ed, that is outrageous travesty. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #85
I didn't hear her plans last night, I heard her scare people saying Bernie wanted to scrap the ACA Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #42
Care to expound? She's not going to touch one Insurance Executive's job or pay grade. Not one. libdem4life Jan 2016 #61
Clinton does nothing but lie. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #87
About EVERYTHING sammythecat Jan 2016 #118
With what?.... paleotn Jan 2016 #97
wouldn't that be 'tearing it up'? navarth Jan 2016 #187
I've spent the past 4 months trying to get insurance after moving to another state Chathamization Jan 2016 #27
I do. My sister's prosthetic limb costs 45,000$ every time she has to get a new one roguevalley Jan 2016 #29
Me. Blue_In_AK Jan 2016 #31
Me. nt Ilsa Jan 2016 #33
Virtually everyone at DU did, as I recall. elleng Jan 2016 #34
You're right, can't ignore that it would be really difficult. Avalux Jan 2016 #37
I did, do, and will. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #36
I did. NorthCarolina Jan 2016 #39
he totally sold us out on the public option Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #43
I did back then. Delmette Jan 2016 #41
I no longer want to live under corporate rule, as if I ever Dustlawyer Jan 2016 #44
That's the crux of the problem - corporate rule corrodes our lives. Avalux Jan 2016 #57
I am with you, Avalux! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #89
Super gigantic plus one a whole bunch! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #88
I remember being pissed when the Public Option was tossed aside at the very beginning. Roland99 Jan 2016 #45
Me too. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #90
We were not even given a seat at the table. FlatBaroque Jan 2016 #124
I did, and LWolf Jan 2016 #46
It's the only choice for a rational, civilized society. sarge43 Jan 2016 #47
Well said, sarge43! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #91
Thank you, Enthsiast. n/t sarge43 Jan 2016 #107
" ...Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is..." 40RatRod Jan 2016 #48
She may put bandaids on it, but she's not going to change it. n/t Avalux Jan 2016 #51
She wants incremental change. In the meantime we are in a crisis. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #94
Then by all means Enthusiast,... 40RatRod Jan 2016 #122
You'll never get anywhere if you don't have a strong advocate Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #144
How could you believe this, unless you totally bought into insurance industry talking points? Enthusiast Jan 2016 #158
Thank you, Enthusiast. The REAL world, as opposed to US Fantasy Bootstrap World, has Nay Jan 2016 #177
Yes! We do not have to accept the status quo. Not when everyone else has better. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #183
I was... DUbeornot2be Jan 2016 #49
Me Fuddnik Jan 2016 #50
There's still millions not covered even with the ACA Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #52
I remember 2010 Kall Jan 2016 #53
The insuror's ineptitude . . . MrModerate Jan 2016 #54
not only single payer UglyGreed Jan 2016 #55
I hope we can have single payer soon so we can help people like you. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #99
Thank you Enthusiast. I know there are many others UglyGreed Jan 2016 #101
Sorry you're going through this, UG senz Jan 2016 #115
. UglyGreed Jan 2016 #173
Present and accounted for swilton Jan 2016 #56
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #59
yep. Phlem Jan 2016 #62
What is truly repulsive to me is that many Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #63
Pretty much everyone...excitement was short-lived. libdem4life Jan 2016 #64
Most of the damn country...and that hasn't changed. n/t. Ken Burch Jan 2016 #65
I did and do mahina Jan 2016 #67
Who else realizes that it had no chance in hell of passing? Orrex Jan 2016 #68
Nothing will EVER change with that kind of thinking. Avalux Jan 2016 #70
How many miracles do you think Sanders has coming to him? Orrex Jan 2016 #83
I understand your position, Orrex, but IMO we must elect someone who Nay Jan 2016 #181
Me. SoapBox Jan 2016 #69
Any health care system that leaves profit motives intact is not a good solution. Enthusiast Jan 2016 #71
What Hillary actually said was Gman Jan 2016 #72
Of course.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #74
I do n/t Got it Jan 2016 #76
Me. CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #78
Yes, medical care is a basic human right. TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #79
I agree, it's not good enough StarzGuy Jan 2016 #81
I was for HR 676 because it also encluded bkkyosemite Jan 2016 #82
I did, but I am a meaningless moonbat. Feeling the Bern Jan 2016 #84
Hillary and the rest of the Dem Establishment is 100% OWNED by the Healthcare Industry. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #86
I do. That's why Bernie Sanders gets my donations and my vote. Auggie Jan 2016 #92
I want single payer salib Jan 2016 #93
Another fundamentally dishonest opening post. Universal Health Care is the goal NOT SINGLE PAYER. KittyWampus Jan 2016 #95
How do you move the ACA towards Universal Health Care? Curmudgeoness Jan 2016 #132
I did. DinahMoeHum Jan 2016 #96
Me (nt) bigwillq Jan 2016 #98
I did and I still do. n /t Jackilope Jan 2016 #102
I heard Ms Clinton say we should evolve the ACA... JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #103
Me. I was hoping to lower the age for medicare. muntrv Jan 2016 #104
The notion that healthcare is a human right will be as easy to get the US to accept librechik Jan 2016 #105
I fought for it and so did my Congressman. Scruffy1 Jan 2016 #106
Yes, and always did shanti Jan 2016 #108
absolutely! hopemountain Jan 2016 #109
Me. Did then and still do. beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #110
Here... WillyT Jan 2016 #111
I want Americans to have what advanced industrialized nations should have. senz Jan 2016 #112
When every act must be attuned to moneymaking, we get bastardized 'health plans' like Nay Jan 2016 #172
^^ THIS ^^ Knowledgable, thoughtful, thought-provoking. senz Jan 2016 #188
It wasn't even close for me. 99Forever Jan 2016 #113
Because it was the only thing that Republicans would vote for PatrynXX Jan 2016 #114
Very happy to have aged into Medicare HockeyMom Jan 2016 #116
Thank you for saying that. Most of us on Medicare True Blue American Jan 2016 #154
The insurance vampires skim $400 billion off the top every year. ErikJ Jan 2016 #119
This One Guy Used To Support It Before They Got To Him srobert Jan 2016 #121
Me blackspade Jan 2016 #125
I did!!! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2016 #126
Most Americans do! Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #129
I wanted Kennedycare, aka Medicare for all. tclambert Jan 2016 #130
I wanted universal health care, Curmudgeoness Jan 2016 #131
I wanted Medicare for All, but would have settled for a strong public option. I got neither. merrily Jan 2016 #134
Here. And I still want it. AllyCat Jan 2016 #136
yup glinda Jan 2016 #137
"...new insurance co. reviews her records and determines what they will and will not cover." Snarkoleptic Jan 2016 #139
I do. draa Jan 2016 #140
All I remember is something about unicorns and something being called "fucking retarded." n/t xocet Jan 2016 #146
Count me in, then and now. Liberty Belle Jan 2016 #148
I remember a local doctors' group deeply split on whether or not to support ACA philly_bob Jan 2016 #150
I was hoping Obama would do it Lunabell Jan 2016 #151
I am beginning to suspect chervilant Jan 2016 #152
K&R n/t jtuck004 Jan 2016 #155
Did someone mention me? :D John Poet Jan 2016 #164
pre-ACA, I expected the age for medicare to be lowered to about 50, apparently the 'for profit'... Sunlei Jan 2016 #156
I have been an advocate of single payer, universal health care for years mnhtnbb Jan 2016 #157
We got the most change Wall St shareholders would allow. raouldukelives Jan 2016 #159
Fighting harder for single payer might have at least gotten us a public option. eridani Jan 2016 #160
My hand is in the air! CanonRay Jan 2016 #161
ACA is/was a gift to insurance companies. Elmergantry Jan 2016 #163
BINGO! AlbertCat Jan 2016 #165
ya.."affordable" for who? Elmergantry Jan 2016 #174
Here! snort Jan 2016 #166
It was part of the parties platform in 2008. liberalnarb Jan 2016 #167
When we stop growing, learning, improving, we're only partly alive. Gregorian Jan 2016 #168
ME, ME, ME, ME! n/t ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #170
If not Single payer" hung my hopes on at least a "public option" annabanana Jan 2016 #178
Me.. ghostsinthemachine Jan 2016 #180
I wanted it, either that or the public option. Stevepol Jan 2016 #184
me. navarth Jan 2016 #185
But..but..what about the poor downtrodden Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies??? K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #186
Count me in! avaistheone1 Jan 2016 #189
I noticed the recs are UglyGreed Jan 2016 #190
I do. kenfrequed Jan 2016 #194
ACA has helped many people, but I want single payer. ZombieHorde Jan 2016 #203
+1 Zorra Jan 2016 #204

enid602

(8,524 posts)
128. thanks, Bern
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:18 PM
Jan 2016

The 29 million are in that boat because their Republican Governors refused to expand medicaid. They'll do it with Bernie's plan as well, given recent SC decisions, and the fact that the plan will be administered by the States. Of course, all other parts of the new law will remain in effect, namely the abolition of Medicare, Medicaid, Chips, etc. Gee, thanks Bern!

enid602

(8,524 posts)
135. plan
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 11:10 PM
Jan 2016

Under Bernie's plan, the States will submit their plans on how to administer health care. Previous government funded health care will be supplanted by by the new single payer. It is thought that a not too cooperative governor might purposely submit a plan that will be rejected, or find some court trick to suspend parts of the plan he doesn't like. The rest of the provisions of the plan will still be in effect.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
192. Where is this coming from? Link?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:38 PM
Jan 2016
Under Bernie's plan, the States will submit their plans on how to administer health care.
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
145. Which is why Bernie changed his single-payer plan to ONE Federal plan,
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:10 AM
Jan 2016

so it's not state-based anymore.

Probably pissed off Hillarians too, because they can't harp on that one-note anymore, trying to
argue AGAINST single-payer, after Hillary "fought so hard for it" and lost, but that was over 20
years ago. She talks like nothing has changed in 20 years.

enid602

(8,524 posts)
149. S. 1782
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:58 AM
Jan 2016

From S. 1782 cosponsors for the 113th Congress (2013-2014):


The American Health Security Act of 2013 (S. 1782) provides every American with affordable and comprehensive health care services through the establishment of a national American Health Security Program (the Program) that requires each participating state to set up and administer a state single payer health program.

I looked for a copy of Bernie's latest (9th) incarnation of this plan, but could not.

enid602

(8,524 posts)
198. bill
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:03 PM
Jan 2016

The quote is from his bill presented to the senate, which is the latest bill I could find on the net.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
6. Count me in! Even WITH insurance, medial care is too pricey for me.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:00 PM
Jan 2016

I would be in deep shit if I got into any kind of serious medical issue beyond a cold or a cavity.

A couple of years ago I tripped over my cat, fell onto a music stand, and gouged my knee so badly I could see actual knee parts in there. Went to the ER to get the wound cleaned and received 9 stitches.

Total cost, $3,300, of which insurance paid less than half, and I was stuck with a bill for $1,700 that went into collections because I didn't pay it in time. So I fucked up my knee and my credit.

So when Hillary dishonestly cries that "Sanders will take away your private insurance" I say "Good!"

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
8. Yep. You've highlighted what's wrong with for profit healthcare.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:06 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie touched on it last night, by mentioning the under insured, but that got drowned out by Hillary's interjection that he wants to destroy the ACA, and then disingenuously attaching herself to Obama.

Having a job employee provided insurance doesn't mean that a person is 'covered'.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, it's just not right.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
30. Ha...sorry this made me laugh. I know it's not funny. Not at all.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jan 2016

Last edited Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)

When I was a kid I got a new pair of cute sandals and my Mom said I could wear them outside if I didn't climb trees with them on. I was a tomboy. I loved to climb anything. So I walk out the front door and noticed what looked like a bird's nest in an evergreen tall shrubby/tree by the front porch. Of course I climbed it, and my sandals slipped and my knee landed on a cut-off branch, and was cut badly. My pissed off mother took me to the doctor (no emergency room thank goodness) for stitches. The doc was cleaning it up and pulled out a nice big chunk of branch and laughed about it. We thought it was part of my knee.

Anyway, my Mom got a regular doctor visit bill for it, not a three or more thousand dollar bill for the ER, which is insane. Hopefully single payer will eliminate the need for ER's treating all emergencies and more urgent care clinics will open up to treat minor emergencies for after hours, like "needing stitches". In your case, you may have needed x-rays to make sure there was no internal knee damage...don't know. They didn't do that in my case...not in those days.

I hope your knee recovered OK. I fell about six years ago and smashed my knee on the edge of a board and it will never be the same. I had arthroscopic surgery and it didn't help (the doc did not know what the hell he was doing). I need knee replacement surgery now and cannot afford it, even with Medicare. I sure hope your knee won't put you in this same position.

homegirl

(1,419 posts)
171. Gap policy
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:06 PM
Jan 2016

Get a gap policy for the 20% Medicare doesn't cover. I have had two knee replacements and one follow up surgery. Rented a hospital bed twice, stayed in pricey Marin after care for a week, bought a walker and I have not bee anywhere near $500. out of pocket.

Investigate SCAN for the best deal ever on a gap policy.

When I went through three knee surgeries I was covered by AARP gap policy. Premiums $200-$250 a month for their best coverage. SCAN = $0 monthly premium but $5 to $15 co pay for MD visits.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
182. Thing is, they SHOULD be confused...or rather fused
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:04 PM
Jan 2016

Here in Canada, when we talk about Medicare, it encompasses all aspects of our medical care. That is how we think about it. We don't separate the insurance part with the visit to the doctor. Medicare is simply a right we all have.

dgibby

(9,474 posts)
191. I had a gg grandmother and a ggg grandmother who were Canadian.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 05:10 PM
Jan 2016

Do you think I'm eligible for Canadian citizenship? Moving there is sounding better and better all the time.

kacekwl

(6,993 posts)
141. After changing my plan from 2015 to a different plan for 2016
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:43 AM
Jan 2016

because my cost with subsidy more than doubled. After buying a new plan to take effect 1-1-2016 after trying to use it I found my doctors were not accepting the plan. Changed to another plan to take effect 2-1-2016 after weeks of searching for a plan that covered the 2 doctors I used that did not have a 6000 -12000 dollar ded. I found one that said they would accept but as with all the others no hospital in my area would accept these plans. I want to know why ? These plans are not cheap plans before my subsidy they are paying ins. co. 1200 to 1600 per month. If we have Medicare for all is this going to be a problem , I hear places who don't accept medicare.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
196. If everyone has single payer, of course they will except it.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:58 PM
Jan 2016

They won't have a choice. And it will most likely be part of the bill...that all doctors and hospitals are required to participate and accept it.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
162. If you pay *something* on it every month it wont go to collections.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:20 AM
Jan 2016

I think that is the law, and has been my experience. I have never been charged interest either.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
197. With my bill, it went to a special medical collection group
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:59 PM
Jan 2016

You pay a very low interest rate and are allowed to pay it off over time.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
200. must be a state law thing
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:47 PM
Jan 2016

That allows them to do that. Best wishes on tackling that bill; im in the same boat

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
201. That was years ago, and it's all paid off now
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:49 PM
Jan 2016

But I will not go into the hospital for surgery again or any major expensive treatment, because if I can't pay cash for what I owe after the procedure, I just won't do it. It's the way I live now. I don't use credit. If I need something and can't afford it, I do without until I've saved up enough cash to pay for it. No more interest accruing on debts for me.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
202. im the same way
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:11 PM
Jan 2016

Got into a lot of trouble; not going down that hi debt road again either. I got one credit card with a 1k limit and the balance is zero.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
205. I don't even own a credit card.
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 05:54 PM
Jan 2016

I am afraid if I had an emergency I might use it. Like a major car expense. Instead, I try to build up my savings account enough to handle most emergencies of that sort, but that is hard to do, as my life seems to consist of a lot of financial emergencies lately.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
206. you aint shittn
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 02:35 AM
Jan 2016

Oh what now! I say as the disposal crapped out two days after the pc died, which can only mean a car repair is on the horizon....

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
207. I know the feeling
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:17 AM
Jan 2016

These things seem to come in cycles, don't they?

I lost a lot of appliances, one big (fridge), and the rest small at the beginning of Dec, 2014, due to a voltage problem. I still have not replaced or fixed everything, even though the electric company insurance is paying for it, it takes time and money before I can turn in receipts of a replacement item for a refund. But since that happened, I've had so many more things die that needed replacement (like my washing machine), or I found I didn't know were affected by the voltage problem, so I didn't put them on the claim...I can't believe how hard this past year has been. And I can't find replacements that were as good as the old appliances I had. Nobody really makes quality any more. It's all garbage now. I had to replace every heater in my home this year, and just finished returning a new one because it was defective. I'm about to give up.

I have been investing in a lot of surge protectors, for everything electrical in my home. I never want to have to go through anything like that again. Never.

I hope you can get the PC fixed/replaced soon. I don't have a disposal...I just have wire mesh screens in my kitchen sink drains that trap debris and I toss it in the trash. You might want to consider that for awhile.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
7. Why should Hillary want to change anything? She and the rest of the 1%ers are doing great.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:04 PM
Jan 2016

"Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible. "

Exactly. You can't have nice things, 99%er peons. So shut up and vote Hillary.

What an awesome campaign...

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
11. I thought it was sold to progressives as...
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:07 PM
Jan 2016

...a stepping stone to single-payer (which should have been Obama's starting point in negotiations. You don't go into a negotiation with opponents who want no change by starting at the center...). Bernie's plan should be billed as "Finishing the job".

turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
20. Isn't that the truth...............................
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:17 PM
Jan 2016

Finish the job and give us a single payer/public option---------------

I thought the right to choice, was based on what the free market can bare, and if your product is a failure, then leave the market-----------------let's see a full implantation of MEDICARE for everyone at any age

Democracy begins with you----------------------------Tag your it----------------

Bernie Sanders to Thom Hartmann's audience and to Thom Hartmann

Honk------------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016


It is about getting a progressive President, U.S. Supreme Court, Congress, and State and Local Legislatures


 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
12. I wanted a public option
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:08 PM
Jan 2016

No muss, give people a choice and see how it flies. If it becomes popular, move to single payer....or leave it in place as an option to make it possible for everyone to have access to affordable coverage

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
28. Try Kaiser and other not-for-profit plans. You won't save much, if anything.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:31 PM
Jan 2016

Although, I was quite happy with Kaiser while I had it.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
143. Not for profit doesn't automatically mean protection for the consumer.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:00 AM
Jan 2016

Look at exec pay to find out were the money goes.

Same goes for not for profit hospital systems.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
153. Truthfully, if they run a good quality health system, I don't care if they make really good income
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:35 AM
Jan 2016

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
17. She didn't say this...
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:13 PM
Jan 2016

Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible.


She said this:

I want us to defend and build on the Affordable Care Act and improve it,

http://time.com/4184019/democratic-debate-hillary-clinton-president-obama/


She has said many times she wants to cap the amount of money people put per month for drugs.

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton proposed on Tuesday a $250 monthly cap on out-of-pocket prescription drug costs and other measures to stop what she called "price gouging" by pharmaceutical companies.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-proposes-250-monthly-cap-prescription-drug-costs-n432006



So to answer your question, yes I'd love single payer.

But this

Obviously, Hillary thinks that the ACA is just fine as it is, and doesn't seem too concerned over the skyrocketing cost of drugs. She warned us last night that we shouldn't even try to do better, that it's not possible.


was dishonest.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
32. Building on a poor foundation is not a good idea
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jan 2016

And the foundation of the ACA is for profit insurance...which means that 30% of every dollar spent goes into the pocket of investors and not to health care. Any improvement made will not be good enough.

And FYI I have Medicare...and if I did not have it I would be dead by now becaruse I could not have afforded insurance. And if I had to spend 250 a month on drugs I could not eat or heat one or the other.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
40. Yeah..
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:45 PM
Jan 2016

I have medicare and I think it sucks.

this is how it reads:

not covered

not covered

not covered

not covered

not covered

not covered

but yeah, medicare is great.

Well there you have it burn that mother down, it's the only way to fix it. Rip out the carpet instead of cleaning the spilled drink.

For some people $250 would be a godsend. who knows that could be a starting point.

Apparently you guys think Bernie is going to magically get single payer through congress. Let's see how you feel when all those people who have insurance NOW end up with nothing.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
58. Well it covered my life threatening illness just fine.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:11 PM
Jan 2016

It still cost me and I am still paying but without it I would never been able to afford health care.

But I don't want to tear down anything and neither does Bernie...let the ACA stand just like it is...just lower the age of eligibility of Medicare...it is as simple as that. Nothing radical there at all.

But yes I do think he will get things done in congress. Because he knows how things work. And we seem to have forgotten how it works.
We have been told that if congress says no then there is nothing we can do...just give up and give the congress what it wants...those excuses have dominated the last 7 years and because people are tired of excuses the Dems have lost both houses.

Sanders knows that in the first two years he will take it to the congress and let them say no...and in 2 years on a new election is held and he will tell people that if they want Medicare for all give him a congress that will say yes...and things will change. Obama could have done that but he did not.
If you don't fight for what is right they will walk all over you, and that is what has been going on now for too long.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
120. That is exactly the path for Bernie to get it through.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:31 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie and us have to do it together in 2018.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
169. Yes, well said. This is what needs to happen, and Bernie is the only one who would
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:37 AM
Jan 2016

even ask for the votes to make it happen.

I do wish we'd stop calling it "Medicare for all" though, even though I know it's used as a convenient shortcut. Medicare has some problems, esp. with very small payments for some procedures, "not covered" etc., but it could conceivably be used as a springboard -- cover everybody like Medicare would, straighten out the kinks in it, get the taxes coming in, and then use Canadian/French/Scandinavian expertise to streamline it all. Surely there are a couple of consultants who could help with that?

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
147. You know what is not covered in the UK?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:16 AM
Jan 2016

Experimental drugs and treatments that don't have a proven positive effect. That's about it. Whatever illness or trauma you have is always covered. Why is that ok for Britain but not America?

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
123. Please make sure Sanders goes around SC saying Obamacare is a poor foundation and that
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:53 PM
Jan 2016

...it shouldn't be built open...

Please make sure it's yelled to the hilt

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
179. You can build on it all you want.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:49 PM
Jan 2016

And if you have Medicare for all as an option it won't make any difference because there IS an option.

It has nothing to do with the ACA...leave it, build on it, or tear it down it makes no difference as long as it is not the only thing.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
60. First thing I noticed was that lie as well.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:13 PM
Jan 2016

It's kind of hidden so one might miss it.

The OP explains why I don't support Bernie in the primary.

They think nothing is better than the ACA.

Fuck that noise.

Take ground hold it, take more ground.

These BS supporters make me think they support an all or nothing strategy.

Which won't work.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
18. Hillary thinks ACA is fine as is because of teh Donations she has received from the industries
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:14 PM
Jan 2016

involved.

Hillary will push hard for Status Quo. We need the change that OBama couldn't make happen

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
21. Yes. But I also live in the real world.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:21 PM
Jan 2016

And I know enough to know that you won't get single payer--which I favor--except by a phased in, gradual process. Passing the ACA was itself a grueling, meat-grinding process. Success was never a guarantee; it was always teetering on the brink of legislative failure; and there were many political casualties as a result (though, not Obama himself).

The ACA started that phased in process of getting to single payer, and the next phase I believe should be a public option add on to the insurance exchanges.

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
23. Hillary has taken too much cash for speeches to healthcare companies opposing single payer!
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:23 PM
Jan 2016

And why, when Howard Dean is on the Chris Hayes show parroting Hillary on why we can't have single payer, does the TV have a tape stream running under him, saying he's the 'former chair of the DNC', instead of saying he's a lobbyist for several healthcare companies?????

There's your regressive TV for ya!

Javaman

(62,439 posts)
25. Me.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:26 PM
Jan 2016

I knew once Obama stopped mentioning it in his various speech's I knew we were doomed not to get it.

so we got ACA instead aka a gift to the healthcare industry to increase their membership rolls and their bank accounts.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
26. Stop LYING about Clinton's position on the ACA. She has proposals to go further.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:27 PM
Jan 2016

That Sanders supporters throughout this thread resort to flat out LIES is telling.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
35. Hillary's proposals to "go further" are band aids.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:37 PM
Jan 2016

They may ease the burden of those with chronic diseases somewhat, although a $250 a month cap on drug prices is still too much for seniors on SS. Everyone else's premiums and deductibles will increase. Personally, my premium through my employer almost doubled from last year to this year, what she wants to do with only make that worse.

Bottom line - if you support Hillary, then you support the continued control of our health care system by for-profit companies.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
61. Care to expound? She's not going to touch one Insurance Executive's job or pay grade. Not one.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:13 PM
Jan 2016

Like "cut it out", she wants to Tweak it here and there. But status quo will reign.

And all caps on an accusation...not cool. Does nothing for your message but make it less palatable.

sammythecat

(3,568 posts)
118. About EVERYTHING
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:11 PM
Jan 2016

She panders and lies almost every time she opens her mouth. Whatever it takes to fulfill her ambition.

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
97. With what?....
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:30 PM
Jan 2016

...more and different for profit health insurance? Come down with an expensive to treat illness and you're only partially ruined financially? Give it up. Hill has lost this debate.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
27. I've spent the past 4 months trying to get insurance after moving to another state
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:31 PM
Jan 2016

Dozens of hours on the phone, and it's still not done yet. The crazy thing is it's the same plan, and it's available in both states, but apparently you need to sign up again through the exchange in another state when you move. So it's been a dance of calling up the exchange, having them tell me one thing, calling up the insurance company, having them tell me something else, then calling the exchange back up to tell them that what they told me was wrong, having it escalated, then waiting a couple weeks to call people up and do the dance all over again.

I've had similar issues every time I've tried to do anything with the exchange (add family members, change plans); it always ends up being months of phone calls where I try to track them down and make sure they do what they're supposed to be doing (to be fair to the workers, i think it's mostly a problem of the system being broken).

The ACA is much better than what we had before, but that doesn't make it good. And a lot of people who don't have to deal with it's numerous problems like to tell those of use who do to simply shut up.

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
29. I do. My sister's prosthetic limb costs 45,000$ every time she has to get a new one
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jan 2016

her deductible? 10,000$. Apparently according to HRC and her group wanting better is not only not possible its unicorn dust.

elleng

(130,126 posts)
34. Virtually everyone at DU did, as I recall.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:37 PM
Jan 2016

We really should not disregard the facts, however, that implementing any such plan would be extremely difficult, AFTER the HERCULEAN effort of having one approved by Congress. Think NRA 'owns' congress? There are hundreds of insurance companies.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
37. You're right, can't ignore that it would be really difficult.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:41 PM
Jan 2016

It will take a long time and probably a lot of defeats but that doesn't mean WE shouldn't try to move forward and find a new way.
I don't think we have any other choice.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
39. I did.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:42 PM
Jan 2016

I thought Obama was all in for a Public Option based on his campaign rhetoric, and I figured that was at least a start in the right direction. Of course post election I don't ever recall hearing him take to the bully pulpit to push for it....seemed to be simply forgotten, not talked about.

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
44. I no longer want to live under corporate rule, as if I ever
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 05:55 PM
Jan 2016

did! Companies should not have a profit motive to deny us needed care, it's barbaric.

We need to throw off the yoke of politicians controlled by donors, they were meant to be OUR REPRESENTATIVES!!! These elections are a farce with all of the donations, super pacs, dark money, and greedy billionaires!!! I fight for universal health care and Publicly Funded Elections!!!

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
57. That's the crux of the problem - corporate rule corrodes our lives.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:11 PM
Jan 2016

Until we work together to take our power back from them, we are nothing but slaves to their whims. Bernie gets it, that's why I support him.

FlatBaroque

(3,160 posts)
124. We were not even given a seat at the table.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:58 PM
Jan 2016

Joe Lieberman laughed at the notion. Joe was not even elected as a Democrat. Joe was needed to be kept in place for this purpose.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
46. I did, and
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:07 PM
Jan 2016

I remember that single payer wasn't even allowed on the table for discussion, while for-profit insurers were allowed a voice.

Personally, I want a universal national health care plan, free at point of service, paid for entirely by taxes regardless of who is getting care.

sarge43

(28,939 posts)
47. It's the only choice for a rational, civilized society.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:07 PM
Jan 2016

A healthy, educated population is its foundation.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
94. She wants incremental change. In the meantime we are in a crisis.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jan 2016

We don't have decades to dither with a for profit system. That is fine for people making $100,000 a year and above. That leaves a lot of us out.

40RatRod

(531 posts)
122. Then by all means Enthusiast,...
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:50 PM
Jan 2016

... please educate us how you will get the repub thugs to vote for a single payer system. It was only by the Grace of God that we were able to get the ACA passed. If we want to accomplish anything, you have to stop living in a make believe world where you think our candidate of choice can actually work miracles. It is NOT going to happen short of a massive overthrow of the House and Senate but I see no sign of that in the real world I live in. Most DU posters are far too busy just bickering about the POTUS race. IMHO.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
144. You'll never get anywhere if you don't have a strong advocate
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:05 AM
Jan 2016

The Voting Rights Act was just a dream to a lot of people in 1964. If Barry Goldwater had been elected President, it would not have passed. But Lyndon Johnson was elected, and even though he had to fight opposition from within his own party, he got that important act passed in 1965.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
158. How could you believe this, unless you totally bought into insurance industry talking points?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:42 AM
Jan 2016

Considering the rest of the entire developed world has universal care that is better and cheaper than what we have, we are the outlier. That is the real world you live in. We are the odd ones out.

The primary impediment to enacting single payer is the uninformed nature of the electorate. That is why there have been no unbiased discussions of the issue on television. The profiteers have kept the American health care consumer in the dark.

Max Baucus, appointed by President Obama to head up the health care discussion would not allow a single peep about Medicare For All single payer.

The topic is verboten.

I'm pretty sure Max was the recipient of huge insurance industry campaign donations and he acted accordingly.

If the American people only knew how badly they were being ripped off by the current system.

Know what a TV discussion on health care would look like in the USA? Exactly, the entire panel would be comprised of people representing the insurance industry or the pharmaceutical industry and, most importantly, some would be corporate spokesmen posing as liberals telling us all how single payer would be an unattainable bridge too far. That's where you come in.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
177. Thank you, Enthusiast. The REAL world, as opposed to US Fantasy Bootstrap World, has
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:45 PM
Jan 2016

cheaper, better, universal health care. As long as this country is run by shameless profiteers and the population is led to think that these profiteers are Capitalist Heroes, we won't get anywhere.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
183. Yes! We do not have to accept the status quo. Not when everyone else has better.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:11 PM
Jan 2016

All we ever hear on our media is how great the USA is. If we are so damned great let's have a great health care system too, one without pirates.

DUbeornot2be

(367 posts)
49. I was...
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:07 PM
Jan 2016

...and have been for single-payer and felt the ACA was a giveaway to the insurance conmen...

I am one of the many who felt ACA didn't go far enough but whose dissatisfaction was misrepresented by media types as not having wanted any change at all...

I'm tired of all the lies that get in the way of folks getting good healthcare at a reasonable cost. That Hillary misrepresents Bernie's plan disgusts me. I'll never support her. Ever.

If supporting ethical people of integrity gets me kicked off this site then I'll be glad to be gone...

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
52. There's still millions not covered even with the ACA
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:09 PM
Jan 2016

although I supported it I wanted a public option. The health insurance companies benefit. I loved the NHS in Britain and I want one here.

Kall

(615 posts)
53. I remember 2010
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:09 PM
Jan 2016

Look, I'm not trying to denigrate the ACA, which had merit to it. But it was really treating some symptoms of the health care problem in America, not the disease in a publicly traded, for-profit, private insurance industry that minimizes care, maximizes profit, and is rife with bureaucracy and administrative costs. It was written by involving the insurance industry in its writing rather than take them head-on. This was all pointed out at the time.

The argument the Democratic professional political class made, from Bill Clinton on down, to the Professional Left sounding the alarm, pointing out that the ACA had been written by involving the private health insurance industry, and therefore would not address the fundamental problem of cost that is central to its problems was as follows:

1. It is not single-payer, but it is a necessary step along the way
2. Once this is passed, it will lower costs despite what you're saying, people will actually experience the benefits, and it will be so popular in the court of public opinion as a result, so Republicans would never dare try to repeal it as it would be political suicide.
3. The negotiating strategy for the ACA was sound - instead of detailing an obvious solution (like single-payer) that demonstrably work in other countries and in this one (Medicare), the best way to go about it was not to pick a fight, but to set up an opening bid that the Republicans might agree to, and go from there.

Fast forward to 2016, and this has morphed into:

1. We can't do single-payer *because* of the ACA
2. The ACA hasn't delivered the benefits that people felt they had a right to expect, so it has not gained popularity in the court of public opinion, and Republicans have felt free to try to repeal it 60 times as there is no political cost to them. They have taken over and increased their margins in Congress. Contrast this to the number of times they propose repealing Medicare (a single-payer health care system) for people *currently* experiencing it - never. Because people like Medicare, and it would be political suicide. Their case is fundamentally incoherent - they attack (falsely) the Democrats for taking money out of single-payer Medicare, but rail against the ACA and want it repealed? How hard should that be to point out as absurd? But you can't do it if you're defending the ACA as a reason not to do single-payer.
3. By rights, the ACA is a system that the Republicans, on the face of it, *should* agree with. It's Romneycare. But they didn't because there is no political incentive, and so it's a socialized government takeover or whatever. The negotiation strategy now appears to be the same as then - propose tepid improvements (or none at all - what does "I'll improve the ACA" mean?) that the Republicans might agree to in a quiet meeting in Washington with Hillary Clinton. Don't make your opening bid something that you truly believe in and force the Republicans to defend the current defective system. I don't think that's going to work the 2nd time around, and any "stuff" that gets "done" will be trivial.

The best social programs, that serve as "third rails" are as simple and universal as possible. That's a better defence against repeal by Republicans than having a pitched battle with Republicans every 2 years to keep them from repealing a program that really doesn't enjoy public support like Medicare or Social Security. Nobody's saying it will happen overnight, but there needs to be a vision to defend, to strive towards, and to make Republicans oppose. Of course, you can't design such a plan by including the private insurance industry in designing it.

And it doesn't help when Hillary and Chelsea Clinton dishonestly attack it from the right in order to try to scare up some low-information votes for their campaign.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
54. The insuror's ineptitude . . .
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:10 PM
Jan 2016

. . . they should have had the particulars fully set out before they accepted your employer's premium . . . doesn't bode well for how your coverage is going to be handled going forward.

And while it would have made sense to be in a single-payer system, I'm with Clinton -- we can't wish it into being, it's going to have to be evolutionary.

I guess that's the major divide between Sanders and Clinton: revolution vs evolution.

Which is a problem for Democrats generally, since most Americans don't even believe in biological evolution.

And, unless Bernie has some wicked powerful oratory up his sleeve that we haven't seen yet, they're not going to buy revolution.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
55. not only single payer
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:10 PM
Jan 2016

would help me deal with my chronic pain issues, it also would allow me to go for ventricular ICP monitoring to find out why I'm having continuing problems and headaches after my shunt surgery.

Intracranial pressure monitoring
Intracranial pressure (ICP) monitoring uses a device, placed inside the head. The monitor senses the pressure inside the skull and sends measurements to a recording device.

INTRAVENTRICULAR CATHETER

The intraventricular catheter is the most accurate monitoring method.

To insert an intraventricular catheter, a hole is drilled through the skull. The catheter is inserted through the brain into the lateral ventricle. This area of the brain contains liquid (cerebrospinal fluid or CSF) that protects the brain and spinal cord.


UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
101. Thank you Enthusiast. I know there are many others
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:36 PM
Jan 2016

worse off and many people point out it's not all about me but it is the only story I know. I try to share my story to help those who can not speak up or have do not have access to the internet. I have no doubt there are thousands of people out there.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
63. What is truly repulsive to me is that many
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:17 PM
Jan 2016

vocal Clinton supporters support universal healthcare, just not now because they support Clinton. In other words they are lying.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
64. Pretty much everyone...excitement was short-lived.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:23 PM
Jan 2016

It removes a couple of layers of heavy profits before it gets to the public. It was those layers...mostly corporations and 1%ers who shut it down. Same with Hillary's initial plan. I'm no fan, but she has to be, at some level, disappointed that it's come to this. She was devastated back in the 90s.

It will take a Bernie Sanders...he arrived at the right time and found the sliver of daylight between what is and what can be. And that sliver is becoming a chasm that one can't be on both sides of. That's what's coming...and nearly every industry is involved. That's why I think we see so many .01% "stars" coming out for Clinton. The last thing they want is for their studios to begin to offer less money due to having to support the political decisions of providing health insurance for the thousands who prop them up.

I remember when the Hollywood Police had to bargain really hard for pensions or something and I thought at the time...they are the ones who protect these prima donnas against all of their crush of fans.

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
68. Who else realizes that it had no chance in hell of passing?
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:54 PM
Jan 2016

Who else understands that the same will be true when your next President goes up against Congress?

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
70. Nothing will EVER change with that kind of thinking.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:57 PM
Jan 2016

It's not just about who we elect, it's about US, and what we choose to do with the power we have (and we do have power as a collective). I'm tired of being told that "this is how it is" and "it's not possible".

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
83. How many miracles do you think Sanders has coming to him?
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:15 PM
Jan 2016

Winning the primary will take a miracle.
Getting onto the ballot thereafter will take another miracle.
Winning the general election will take yet another miracle.
Getting a hostile Congress to do anything to further his agenda will take an astounding miracle.
Getting that hostile Congress even to consider single-payer will take a miracle like nothing seen in recorded history.

You say that you're tired of being told that something's not possible? Too fucking bad. If you expect me to believe that Sanders can get it done, then you need to show me that it's not simply possible but actually feasible.

I see nothing to suggest that Sanders is as unrealistically optimistic as his supporters. With that in mind, it's easy to read his statements about single-payer and free tuition and all the rest as ultimately empty promises, red meat to rally the faithful.


But for someone who doesn't already "feel the Bern," it's little more than empty sloganeering.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
181. I understand your position, Orrex, but IMO we must elect someone who
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:01 PM
Jan 2016

is simply willing to start the conversation. We have never had a politician who was willing. A president who would start a national conversation -- including discussion of how other advanced nations care for their people -- would advance the knowledge here. In fact, I would like to see a presentation on the top 3 healthcare systems of the world, explained by an official from that country, broadcast on every TV channel, YouTube, etc., so we can get a factual conversation started. This country swims in a miasma of propaganda, strict individualistic ideology, religion, advertising, and oligarchy disguised as freedom-loving capitalism. If something doesn't shake this nonsense loose soon, we'll all be going down the toilet in a bunch of different ways, not just in healthcare.

If the citizens of this country hear Pres. Sanders and reject his plans outright by electing more and more Walkers and Bushes and Cruzes, well, then we know the answer. I personally will not be affected as a dual citizen, and I can just up and move. But I wish more for this country.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
71. Any health care system that leaves profit motives intact is not a good solution.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 06:58 PM
Jan 2016

Last edited Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:33 PM - Edit history (1)

In our health care system every medical decision is influenced by profit concerns.

My doctor, a specialist, refused to diagnose my illness because of profit considerations. He knew full well that I had an extreme sensitivity to gluten. He was willing to allow me to suffer, allow the auto-immune disorder to damage my body to such an extent that it required surgery, all so they could drag out the process and gain financial rewards for all the tests to come.

The insurance industry comes at this from the other direction. The insurance industry rations and denies care based on bottom line consideration.

No kidding around, a single payer Medicare For All is the only system that should be under discussion.

How can we implement it as soon as is practical? How can we streamline the process? How can we accelerate the training of medical personnel without compromising quality? We can do this. We can make our health care system the envy of the world as it should have been all along.

Gman

(24,780 posts)
72. What Hillary actually said was
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:01 PM
Jan 2016

to avoid the usual progressive liberal syndrome of creating a fantasy world of great and wonderful things that will be so grand for everyone, then crashing into deep depression when it doesn't happen because it never was going to happen the way they think.

In other words, there are realities that have to be dealt with. Sanders' "plan" is long on promise and fantasy but isn't worth the electrons to put it on a screen because, gee, congress is run by the GOP for beginners.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
74. Of course....
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:06 PM
Jan 2016

The rich are going to have doctors on retainer anyway in the hopes of living longer...



Who knows what that can lead to.

TIME TO PANIC

(1,894 posts)
79. Yes, medical care is a basic human right.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:08 PM
Jan 2016

The Hillary camp says it's pie in the sky, but this is a matter of life or death for some. The republicans have tried to repeal the ACA over 50 times, so what makes anyone think they'll give an inch to Hillary. We should go with the candidate who will fight for what we need, rather than the candidate who's already accepted defeat. The republicans will refuse to work with any democrat we put in the White House.

StarzGuy

(254 posts)
81. I agree, it's not good enough
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:14 PM
Jan 2016

Healthcare needs to be a right and completely cover all Americans from birth to death. That includes dental and vision coverage...

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
82. I was for HR 676 because it also encluded
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:14 PM
Jan 2016

dentistry and other things. I wanted Universal Healthcare.......

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
86. Hillary and the rest of the Dem Establishment is 100% OWNED by the Healthcare Industry.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:18 PM
Jan 2016

The insurance companies, the medical device makers, the supposedly "non-profit" hospital companies, and the medical malpractice trial lawyers all stand to lose huge profits of Single Player is enacted.

Look at Franken and Klobuchar here in Minnesota, both bowed down in obedience to the medical device makers like Minnesota-based Metronic over the medical device tax. Fuck them.

salib

(2,116 posts)
93. I want single payer
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:24 PM
Jan 2016

or even nationalized healthcare. Certainly over the current patchwork / spit and bailing wire system.

Also, your co-workers problem is very near what our family has had to deal with, even under Obamacare. As long as there are a bunch of third-party insurance companies, changing can easily mean being in limbo while the new company "figures things out".

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
95. Another fundamentally dishonest opening post. Universal Health Care is the goal NOT SINGLE PAYER.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jan 2016

Single payer isn't the only way to implement the goal of UHC.

And it's possible to move the ACA forward towards Universal Health Care.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
132. How do you move the ACA towards Universal Health Care?
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jan 2016

The one thing that keeps the ACA from ever getting there is that the insurance companies are still involved. They are still making the decisions about what they will pay, what doctors you can see, what drugs you can have, etc. We are still paying premiums to the insurance companies. They are still responsible to their stockholders to make more and more profit.

How do you take a health insurance plan and make it universal health care, where not one person is kept from having health care?

JohnnyRingo

(18,581 posts)
103. I heard Ms Clinton say we should evolve the ACA...
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:39 PM
Jan 2016

...toward something like a single payer system over time.

She said it just last night as a more practical plan than dismantling it and starting with a clean sheet of paper.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
105. The notion that healthcare is a human right will be as easy to get the US to accept
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:44 PM
Jan 2016

as the notion that black people have the same rights as white people.

That's how badly brainwashed we are.

Scruffy1

(3,239 posts)
106. I fought for it and so did my Congressman.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 07:56 PM
Jan 2016

I lost all respect for the Democratic Party, especially the US Senators such as Bachus, over the inept way health care reform was handled. It was clear from the start that Obama was selling us out to big pharma and the Blue Dogs. I would rather he had failed, since I can see that the common wisdom is we are stuck with it forever, and it might be true. In my opinion all that was accomplished was to save the health insurance and pharma industries eternal huge profits.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
109. absolutely!
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 08:27 PM
Jan 2016

the high cost of medical care must be controlled and single payer seems to be the only way to negotiate with coroporate greed and to strip them of their power to bankrupt us all.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
112. I want Americans to have what advanced industrialized nations should have.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 08:31 PM
Jan 2016

I'm sick of our home-grown greedheads standing in the way of their fellow Americans.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
172. When every act must be attuned to moneymaking, we get bastardized 'health plans' like
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:30 PM
Jan 2016

the ACA. The ACA was NEVER going to morph into national healthcare. What we are supposed to be happy with is the tinkering around the edges -- like Hillary's $250 cap on monthly drug costs. What does that cap do? It says to the drug and insurance companies "You charge whatever you want for this drug! The govt will pick up the tab for anything over $250 for millions of people!" Does anyone really think this will help anyone? Sure, for a year or two, those who seriously need help paying for lifesaving drugs will be helped, but in the end, it will be too expensive to continue such a program. Then what?

Well, we'll be told over and over again how we "can't afford" govt health care, that 'socialized medicine' is failing right here in the ol' USA, and we were fools to think that it would work here in the Land of the Free, even though socialized medicine is as far away from the ACA as the moon.

Hell, ACA is enough of a mess that they're saying that right now, and they're right, essentially. You have to realize that the repubs are pretty happy with ACA because it is clunky, doesn't remotely cover everybody, costs the individual a lot of money for a high-deductible plan, screws with people when they have to change plans, move to a different state, etc. IOW, the clunkier the better, because then people are unhappy and can be scammed by the repubs into thinking that the ACA is what socialized medicine is.

As others have pointed out, we've gone so far down the road of profitable private/insured medicine that it will be hard and expensive to turn around. It may even be impossible, due to the financial and ideological pressures. We are headed toward a country of an elite and a vast number of scrabbling peasants, so TPTB may be able to disrupt any attempt to pay for the peasants' health care. After all, in the Land of the Free, if you can't pay for something, you shouldn't have it.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
188. ^^ THIS ^^ Knowledgable, thoughtful, thought-provoking.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 04:00 PM
Jan 2016

Very well said, Nay; I'm honored that my little comment served as a vehicle for your very informed reply. If you felt like it, your comment would make a great OP in GD.

I've been an Obama supporter for eight years, had high hopes for the ACA, and have been defending it for several years to friends and acquaintances who are unhappy with it. I used to think that its detractors were merely brainwashed anti-Obama rightwingers but have had to acknowledge that for many, it truly is not adequate. I believe Obama did the best he could under very difficult circumstances. The drug and insurance companies are super-villains who prey on the American people, and their wealth has given them great power.

The country you say we're headed toward is what Bernie Sanders is talking about. He is trying to wake people up, because large numbers of awakened people, combined with what's left of our democratic system, should be enough to address our problems. Single payer would eliminate this problem. We know it can be done; we've know medicare works and we've seen numerous other countries implement successful, affordable universal health care. The only thing that stands in the way of acceptance is conservative/libertarian propaganda about "collectivism," socialism, communism. IOW, what stands in our way is a fear-inducing concept kept alive by its vested interests. And, sadly, we can see its propaganda right here on "Democratic" Underground.

None of the other presidential candidates are motivated to get it done. At this time in hour history, Bernie Sanders is our only hope for resolving this, and similar, problems in a peaceful, orderly way.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
113. It wasn't even close for me.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 08:32 PM
Jan 2016

It showed me exactly who the Democrats that were and are sellouts. The first of many huge disappointments with the party I have been a member of all my life, but definitely not the last.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
114. Because it was the only thing that Republicans would vote for
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 08:33 PM
Jan 2016

Most of ACA is Republican ideas. But it's all we got. Figured Congress would fix it up along the way. Oops. Except not one Republican voted on their principles because they don't have any X_X er Hillary doesn't seem to have any either since she's going against everything she once stood for. but she's been doing this since 2005. the movie The Candidate comes to mind

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
116. Very happy to have aged into Medicare
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 08:47 PM
Jan 2016

at the EXACT perfect time. No Health Benefits before. Do you really have to ask whether I preferred ACA to Medicare?????

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
154. Thank you for saying that. Most of us on Medicare
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:39 AM
Jan 2016

Know there are policies called Medicare Advantage.We were told that would be destroyed under the ACA. Not true at all ,just another scare tactic...

Many of the plans cost nothing, but cover what Medicare does not. If you go into the Hospital the average deduction is 3500, 3800. I have talked to people who have the so called Cadillac plans. Their deduction was 7000. Not sure about this year. It is an HMO, but nothing like the ones of the 1970's.

As for what Bernie and Hillary can do,they can not do anything. Congress writes the bills and the Lobbyist owned Congress stopped Singe payer. Namely holy Joe Lieberman, Max Baucus and Grassley. They held up the bill until Single Payer was killed. I watched it play out on the Senate Floor.

Hillary tried her best to get a Health care bill while her husband was in office. And Bernie means well, but it is just a pipe dream. If Republicans manage to kill the ACA you will lose it all.

So time to start blaming the right people, the Lobby owned Congress.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
119. The insurance vampires skim $400 billion off the top every year.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:27 PM
Jan 2016

Medicare far all would save at least $200 billion of that.
I think we should go to VA health care for all. Govt owned and operated.

 

srobert

(81 posts)
121. This One Guy Used To Support It Before They Got To Him
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 09:44 PM
Jan 2016

This guy promised to be an advocate for single payer.


They must've brainwashed him, or taken a hostage, or something because he wouldn't even permit debate over a public option when he was in a position to drive the debate.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
129. Most Americans do!
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:19 PM
Jan 2016
http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Chart_of_Americans_Support



Over half of Americans want national single-payer health care, Improved Medicare for All.

That fact was documented in 2007, as per the bar chart below.

That fact has been confirmed multiple times since that time, in 2008, 2009, 2010.

Examples of the wording in polls in 2007: "... adopt a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers" (65% yes) and " ... federal government should guarantee health insurance for all." (64% yes)



tclambert

(11,080 posts)
130. I wanted Kennedycare, aka Medicare for all.
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:22 PM
Jan 2016

The plan called for lowering the eligibility age for Medicare over time, reaching 0 after about 10 years. Not complicated to implement, it would get everyone on the most popular and efficient medical insurance plan America has to offer. As I recall, Edward Kennedy championed this idea for a long time, and John Kerry supported it when he ran for President in 2004. Twelve years later, we still don't have it, and we could have reached the point where everyone had Medicare by now.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
131. I wanted universal health care,
Mon Jan 18, 2016, 10:44 PM
Jan 2016

and I didn't really "resign" myself to accepting the ACA as acceptable. But it was all we got.

I was shocked to hear Hillary say that she is happy with it and is not even interested in doing more.

Snarkoleptic

(5,995 posts)
139. "...new insurance co. reviews her records and determines what they will and will not cover."
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:30 AM
Jan 2016

GREAT SCOTT, I believe we've finally found those death panels we've heard republiClowns carp so much about!

Liberty Belle

(9,528 posts)
148. Count me in, then and now.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 01:39 AM
Jan 2016

Before I got screwed by an insurer who first dropped me, then when Obamacare made insurers cover me despite a past skin cancer bout they tripled my rates. Later the company fled the state. Under Obamacare there was a long delay getting rates reduced to get subsidies after my hubby lost his job (took 4 months, because they count your income for the whole year to determine if you get a subsidy). We did benefit by keeping a kid in college on the plan for a while and eventually did get good subsidiies, but now that hubby found a new job it's going through the roof again even with the ACA.

Middle class families are getting squeezed. The ACA is great for the poor and those who were not insured at all. The rich can afford the higher premiums. Others can't.

Don't get me wrong. Before Obamacare many things were even worse. A friend whose colon exploded and nearly died was told reconnecting it would be considered "elective surgery" by a heartless insurer, before Obamacare. He was left a million dollars in debt and can never buy a home or the hospital would put a lien on it to collect on its bill. An insurer once denied our daughter life-saving heart surgery until the doctor convinced them it would cost more to have her in and out of ERs for the years she'd live than to pay for the surgery. All of that was before Obamacare. But if the premiums are still unaffordable under Obamacare for working people with fixed cost like a mortgage, it's still not good enough.

I agree with Bernie,healthcare should be a right, not a privilege for the rich. I would gladly pay a little more in taxes to rest assured that I could access quality healthy no matter what.

philly_bob

(2,419 posts)
150. I remember a local doctors' group deeply split on whether or not to support ACA
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 02:49 AM
Jan 2016

because they all agreed single-payer would be cheaper and better.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
152. I am beginning to suspect
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:06 AM
Jan 2016

that HRC and her supporters cannot comprehend the incredible political revolution we're witnessing, and of which we are an integral part. I wonder, are they scared? Or, do they believe that We, the vast Hoi Polloi, are incapable of coming together to advocate for a sea change in the political landscape of our co-opted democracy? Whatever their rationale for denigrating Senator Sanders, I think they are sadly mistaken.

We WANT single payer health care, and we WILL do whatever work is necessary to effect the changes that will result in this outcome. We WANT an effective response to climate change, and together we WILL work hard for the future of our children, and our grandchildren, and all future generations. We WANT an honest and dedicated POTUS, and we WILL do whatever is necessary to get Senator Bernie Sanders in office.

You know, it pains me to read the snarky comments from HRC supporters alleging that we Sanders supporters view Bernie as some sort of messiah. How condescending, and sophomoric! Bernie Sanders is an honest and hard-working man. He knows the road ahead will be difficult, as do we all. He knows that we will have to work together, as do we all. Our species is facing critical challenges, and we cannot meet those challenges if we continue along the narrow path controlled by the corporate oligarchs.

BUT, to opt not to walk the hard road with Bernie Sanders, to fear failure so much that pitiful excuses and naysaying have created a "No, We Can't!" meme for the HRC campaign... how pitiable is that?

Would that we could metamorphose this "competition" for the presidency into a "collaboration" for the salvaging of our democracy. I doubt we'll get a better champion for our nation than Senator Bernie Sanders. He will continue to have my complete support.

(And, the fact that HRC was not GRACIOUS enough to shake Bernie's hand after the last debate--well, that speaks volumes to me.)

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
156. pre-ACA, I expected the age for medicare to be lowered to about 50, apparently the 'for profit'...
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:02 AM
Jan 2016

'for profit' insurance Corps didn't want that segment of our population moved to 'not for profit' medicare. Insurance Corps would lose a very large chunk of our State/Federal money, and lose a bunch of profits.

ACA needed to be pushed as fast as possible or RW would delay for the entire 4 years of Obama's first term even the start-up of insurance for everyone.

I think that lower age for 'non-profit' medicare should be pushed today by our candidates, and change requirement to age 40 and up. That change in age requirement can be done fairly easy and fast. The system is in place.

The state/federal funds are already handed over to 'for profit' insurance corps for our 'Obamacare' insurance, redirect those funds to medicare.

people who can afford already pay premiums to for profit insurance and get less or no federal money 'help'-let those wealthier people keep their 'for profit' insurance, along with the new obamacare insurance regulations.

mnhtnbb

(31,318 posts)
157. I have been an advocate of single payer, universal health care for years
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 07:29 AM
Jan 2016

and so has my husband. I am a retired hospital administrator and he's a semi-retired psychiatrist/psychoanalyst.

IMO, Hillary has NEVER gotten the message--from the time she got involved when she was First Lady--about the need
to eliminate the insurance companies from their role in the provision of health care services.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
159. We got the most change Wall St shareholders would allow.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 08:40 AM
Jan 2016

There was a huge amount of momentum for enacting single payer and it was my main reason for supporting Obama over her.

The people at the top in this country saw what was coming down the pike. The years of stories of health insurance nightmares and of people unable to afford any coverage. The film Sicko raised national debate to sky high levels on the issue. People were pissed, they had enough and were rallying to fix it. It was the wave that propelled Obama into the White House.

But then, instead of allowing the peoples voice in the matter, only the insurance corporations were allowed to speak.
None of this was by accident. It was, in essence, the very least that could be done while still being able to say, we did something.

Once that great push for single payer had subsided, once the people were more complacent, the pain profiteers could chuckle and breathe easier again. All was as it should be. Heck, even better, they were now like ticks that could never be removed. Always snug in the knowledge no tweezers would be coming to pluck them out. But they forgot about the heat. If we can't pluck them out, we'll Bern them out.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
160. Fighting harder for single payer might have at least gotten us a public option.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 08:45 AM
Jan 2016

If you want $3000 for your used car, ask for $6000.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
163. ACA is/was a gift to insurance companies.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 09:25 AM
Jan 2016

We need some form of single payer. Hell if I know how it would work though. There appears to be no cost controls in any of the proposals; and putting a "cap" on total single payer payouts would only lead to rationing.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
165. BINGO!
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 10:05 AM
Jan 2016

My friend who just turned 63 and has an ACA plan....his premiums just went up more than double. I thought the ACA was there to prevent this sort of thing.

 

Elmergantry

(884 posts)
174. ya.."affordable" for who?
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:32 PM
Jan 2016

My crazy thoughts.... A national sales tax to fund a new single entity to replace medicare/medicaid. You sign upfor the plan, the plan pays for the expenses. Thats it. No premium no deductible no copay none of that bullshit. Save a lot on the bureacracy by keeping it simple stupid. The single payer would have to have a robust serious auditing department to make sure services provided are legit.

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
168. When we stop growing, learning, improving, we're only partly alive.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:13 AM
Jan 2016

There are a lot of lazy Americans who don't care enough to take care of their own wellbeing. On the other hand, there are groups like us, who prefer a life of learning and improving.

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
178. If not Single payer" hung my hopes on at least a "public option"
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:47 PM
Jan 2016

When Dopey Joe Lieberman sunk THAT ship.. I realized that the Insurance Companies would still be convening the REAL "Death Panels".

Stevepol

(4,234 posts)
184. I wanted it, either that or the public option.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 03:04 PM
Jan 2016

When we got neither I didn't have much confidence in the ACA. However, it did do some good things and deserves to be kept in place obviously rather than the disaster that existed before.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
190. I noticed the recs are
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 04:40 PM
Jan 2016

mostly Bernie supporters. I thought Hillary fought for healthcare all of her career yet her supporters really don't care for it at all.................

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
194. I do.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 06:44 PM
Jan 2016

I work in a clinic and get awesome medical coverage but I really want everyone to have great medical coverage. Universal single payer is the way to go!

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
203. ACA has helped many people, but I want single payer.
Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:33 PM
Jan 2016

There have been some issues with the ACA, but it's still new, so hopefully those kinks can be worked out if we don't move on to a single-payer system.

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