Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:48 AM Jan 2016

Allegation: "Proof that Ted Cruz did not become a US citizen at birth"

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by azurnoir (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

I put the "allegation" in front of the title because I do not regard the article as "proof".

Having said that, maybe the article or parts of it have merit. I don't know for sure. It didn't strike me as totally bonkers but I'm not a constitutional law expert nor up on the laws on both sides of the border. I'm tossing it out there for interest/discussion - not to smear Cruz as a Canadian like a birther. It raises some points I was unaware of and I'm curious to what others might have to say about it. Ignoring that I don't care for Cruz as a candidate, it might be a really interesting or complicated legal case if and when this stuff gets mixed in.

http://www.examiner.com/article/proof-that-ted-cruz-did-not-become-a-us-citizen-at-birth

According to the Canadian Citizenship Act of 1946, also referred to as the "Act of 1947" because of its effective date, Canada did not allow dual citizenship.
...
In order for Ted Cruz to have "become" a US citizen at birth in 1970, his mother would have had to retain exclusive citizenship to the US and filed a CRBA (Consular Report of Birth Abroad) to "obtain" exclusive US citizenship at the time for her son Ted and renounced his automatic "naturally acquired" Canadian citizenship. The process in itself is considered a very abbreviated form of "naturalization", thereby making such persons born outside of the OFFICIAL territories of the United States absolutely ineligible to become President of these United States in at least this one circumstance alone. Given that Canadian law did not allow dual citizenship at the time, then IF his mother filed a CRBA in 1970, his Canadian citizenship would likely have needed to be renounced before a new US citizenship could be granted.

Ted's Father has publicly admitted he became a Canadian citizen in 1968. If his mother's first husband with surname of "Wilson" was also a Canadian citizen (unconfirmed), she would have become a citizen before his father. Even if her first husband was not Canadian, according to Canadian law, she would still have automatically become a Canadian citizen in 1969 after having a Canadian spouse (Ted's Father) and residing in Canada for 1 year. This information substantiates the reports claiming that both of his parents appeared on the Canadian voter's rolls. There is now an unconfirmed claim that someone has supposedly verified that they indeed both voted in the October of 1972 federal Canadian election.

If both of Ted's parents became exclusive citizens of Canada by 1969, then even if his mother tried to file a CRBA, she would not have been able to confer US citizenship to her son as she was no longer a US citizen herself. Even if she somehow retained US citizenship, Ted could not have been granted dual citizenship as it was against Canadian law. The only thing that is certain is that Ted Cruz automatically became a Canadian citizen the instant he was born on Canadian soil and that fact is absolutely irrefutable. Likewise, the release of his mother's birth certificate certainly settles absolutely nothing.


there's more - I can't quote more without breaking the site rules.

I do not agree with everything in the article.

An important point the article doesn't address is jurisdiction. Canada has it's laws on citizenship. And the US has it's laws on citizenship. Canada's laws on citizenship are not going to have jurisdiction in the US and vice-versa. So Canada might think Ted was a Canadian at birth and maybe the US thinks Ted was natural born for all I know. On that basis, ignoring that important point maybe some of the article is quite suspect.

Maybe someone will nuke this thing out of hand. Please - no shooting the messenger themselves - shoot the messenger's facts or ideas.
9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
1. You have to file the Consular Report of Birth Abroad
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:56 AM
Jan 2016

With in a short time frame

2 or 6 weeks can't remember which

NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
2. It's an interesting conundrum
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:58 AM
Jan 2016

But unless his mother renounced her U.S. citizenship before Ted's birth, a difficult thing to do, she was a U.S. citizen, and therefore, so was Ted.

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
4. If she voted in the Canadian election, as has been alleged
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:00 PM
Jan 2016

some might make a fuss over her accepting Canadian citizenship

This thing could turn into quite a legal argument

NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
8. Canadian rules simply don't apply to U.S. citizens with dual citizenship
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:47 PM
Jan 2016

If she had dual citizenship, and it appears she did, Ted's a U.S. citizen. She would have had to renounce her U.S. citizenship before Ted was born. There is no evidence to date that she did.

Like it or not, Teddy is qualified to run for President. (Notice I put the word, run, in there.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
3. "In order for Ted Cruz to have 'become' a US citizen at birth in 1970,
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 11:59 AM
Jan 2016
his mother would have had to retain exclusive citizenship to the US and filed a CRBA (Consular Report of Birth Abroad)...AND renounced his automatic 'naturally acquired' Canadian citizenship."

But his mother DID "retain" her US citizenship if she never renounced it. Which puts Ted in the clear. Canada may not allow dual citizenship, but the US does.


rocktivity

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
5. If his mother became a Canadian citizen before his birth,
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:02 PM
Jan 2016

that opens up a whole can of worms for Cruz. And it couldn't happen to a more deserving loony.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
6. Is Ted Cruz running in the Democratic primary?
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:19 PM
Jan 2016

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
7. There was a claim during the Obama debate on his citizenship that I looked into
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 12:25 PM
Jan 2016

There were some sections about divided loyalties as a dual citizen - something like that - sorry to be vague - it was 8 years ago. And claims that because of that Obama couldn't be natural born or eligible.

Obama had claimed that he thought he was a dual citizen - a British subject (Britain controlled Kenya) as well. But that turned out to not be the case because his father was still married to his first wife which made the marriage between Obama's mother and father illegal in the eyes of the Brits and therefore, an illegitimate child born elsewhere could not be a British citizen. There was something about Kenya may have allowed multiple wives but the British only accepted the 1st wife ... (I late doing something so my point is hurried.) From that, we concluded that when Obama was born, he was American and only American.

There is some US law or case law that delves into that and raised the issue about divided loyalties, natural born and US citizenship

Here's some discussion of it (I do not endorse this)
http://www.thecompleteobamatimeline.com/uploads/3/5/7/4/3574872/dividedloyalties.pdf

This was a big deal around the time of the Revolutionary War because British subjects had allegiance to the monarchy of England.

This strikes me a little like Hillary's email problem. It's a messy thing that isn't going to go away any time soon.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
9. locking
Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:19 PM
Jan 2016

A forum for general discussion of the Democratic presidential primaries. Disruptive meta-discussion is forbidden.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1251

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Allegation: "Proof that T...