I see Hillary winning at the end

[NYCButterfinger]

I made my choice. Sanders, a good guy, he has to win the Rust Belt. Hillary Clinton, with all her flaws, is the electable choice. Yes, the GOP will discuss the email crap, but she will win. Bernie is a good man, but I don't think he can win.

[Yupy]

1. and I see Bernie winning at the end, I am 100% certain not wishful thinking.

[NorthCarolina]

3. Me too,

as well as just about everybody I know (save for one couple but we're working on them).

[Alfresco]

6. LOL

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Obviously Hillary cannot run on the issues.

[snoringvoter]

2. Clinton won't win at the end.

When the domino effect is already underway.

Two weeks before the primaries, Bernie has exceeded the numbers he needs to win Iowa NH, and is already building on NV, SC and the 11 states on Super Tuesday. Clinton is not prepared.

Clinton is putting all of her marbles on the first four states, and she won't be able to achieve what she is seeking. As a matter of fact, I think after Super Tuesday, if Clinton doesn't have the momentum, her superdelegates will start dropping like flies to back Bernie.

The SD's probably does not want to take forever to get the nomination secured like it did in '08. Remember Michigan and Florida? What a mess.

[kenfrequed]

37. We shall see

I actually think a superdelegate or two is going to drop after Iowa and New Hampshire.

[KingFlorez]

4. I agree

Clinton will win the nomination and the general election.

[roguevalley]

49. how beyond polls on landlines that don't give the big picture

[TheBlackAdder]

77. I see myself winning the PowerBall. If HRC isn't careful, it will be the same odds. nt

[jonno99]

5. Well, to be fair the FBI is also discussing the email crap...nt

[Maedhros]

7. Thank you for your concern. [n/t]

[votesparks]

8. I think that Hillary is better than any GOP candidate but...

I don't see independents coming out to vote for her. A lot of Ds will also just stay home and watch Netflix or something.

Hillary win = low turnout, lesser chance of winning the White House and down ballot elections.

Bernie win = high voter turnout, greater chance of winning (he already polls much better against the GOP), & more wins on the downballot elections. Also helps rebuild a very broken party on the local level with new progressive blood.

[malokvale77]

104. "Bernie win = high turnout"...

and hopefully some long coat tails for you to win in OHIO.

[One of the 99]

9. Bernis is doing better in the polls

against Trump and all the other Republican.

[darkangel218]

10. I don't.

She won't even win the nomination, much less the general election.

[draa]

82. I'm voting for whoever darkangel votes for.

[demwing]

11. "Hillary Clinton, with all her flaws, is the electable choice."

Why?

[darkangel218]

12. Because they say so.

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!

[Orsino]

23. Name recognition.

Clinton has a twenty-something-year head start on Sanders. This is a real thing, but is less and less important as Sanders becomes known.

This, as far as I can tell, is what is meant by electability. Inertia.

[libdem4life]

28. This cuts both ways for the Clintons.

[NYCButterfinger]

13. I don't think Bernie can win because he keeps hammering income inequality

Yes, it is an important topic, but most Americans don't care whether or not their friend or neighbor is suffering economically. We're taught in school, every individual for themselves, and I don't know if it will play well with the general electorate. DU is not representative of the country. I will vote for Bernie or Hillary in the general, but she will likely win the nomination.

[Skwmom]

15. He hammers GOVT corruption and people care a hell of a lot about that. n/t

[cascadiance]

36. Not been on DU that long it would appear... Have you not been a Democrat that long too?...

Most Democrats DO care about income inequality and are going to prioritize that as an issue in the primaries. And most of them also would agree with our European friends that single payer health care is a lot more cost efficient in providing decent health care to everyone that is sustainable without being vulnerable to costs from parasites taking money from it like our current system has that prevents it from being fully effective for most Americans.

What would be a higher priority to have Democrats vote against their positions on these issues, especially when polls now show that Bernie does better against Republicans in a general election than Hillary does. I think whatever reason there is isn't being stated much, because the reason doesn't sell to most people but just a handful of the 1% that wants to continue to pay to control the agenda and actions of both parties to reward themselves. But it's harder to sell against someone like Bernie now when there are less other reasons, if any, for average Americans to want to vote against him any more.

[roguevalley]

50. caring is what makes you a dem and what the hell school did you go to that taught that?

RV, 30 year teacher

[draa]

86. I think it's snark. Read it again with that in mind.

Comes out a little different when you do.

[draa]

88. Well, looking at their Journal maybe not.

Definitely a Clinton support so WTF?

[malokvale77]

105. I would hate to live where you do.

most Americans don't care whether or not their friend or neighbor is suffering economically

In my community, we damn sure care.

[NYCButterfinger]

106. I was taught in school not to. Every individual for themself.

I was taught in high school and college differently than some of you.

[malokvale77]

109. Sad. nt

[Skwmom]

14. One thing I'd bet money on - she will not be President. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Thomas Paine

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine

See "Not as bad" and "Lesser of two evils" for examples.

[hobbit709]

19. Paine would not be kind to today's crop of politicians.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. He certainly wouldn't. With good reason.

[Ron Green]

17. Hillary's becoming more toxic by the day.

We Dems ought not to allow her on the ballot.

[hobbit709]

18. If Hillary wins, we will lose.

She's a corporatist through and through.

[darkangel218]

22. Worse than that.

She is against single payer.

Lack of medical care kills people. She is content with the ACA, which (even if its better than nothing) still has millions of people left without an ounce of medical care.

Why would a democrat be ok with millions suffering?? No clue. I cannot speak for her. But i will not in a million years support her, if she still preaches for status quo and has no desire to fight for single payer.

[NYCButterfinger]

24. What is so great about single payer?

I mean, in other countries, it just does not get favorable reviews. If that person can't afford health care because they don't have a job, why give it to that person, when they're not paying into it? It just doesn't work.

[darkangel218]

25. I can't believe you just said that!

NYCButterfinger
24. What is so great about single payer?
I mean, in other countries, it just does not get favorable reviews. If that person can't afford health care because they don't have a job, why give it to that person, when they're not paying into it? It just doesn't work

Holy cow....

[roguevalley]

51. low info people really get my goat

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. LOL! Visit some of those other countries

and ask the people whether they'd give up their single payer system for something like ours - they'd laugh you right back to NYC. Countries that have single payer systems have overall better health care at lower cost, and most people in those countries think our system is insane. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

The reason single payer is better is that it's much cheaper than what we have now and everybody can get health care. Sick people are also a drag on the economy, even if you don't give a damn about them if they don't have a job (sounds pretty GOP to me). And why should we pay vast sums of money to private insurers just so they can pay outrageous salaries to a bunch of parasitic CEOs?

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. This is one of the most fucked up posts I've ever read here. CONTRIBUTE OR DIE.

The fact the jury let it stand amazes and confuses me.

[TM99]

31. Dude, we are the only civilized

country with out a universal health care system.

Stop reading right wing sites and you will see what is so good about it. Better yet, go to one of these countries.

You do realize that you and everyone else already pays for someone without a job's health insurance, right? If that person is on Medicaid, you are already paying taxes towards it. If they are on Medicare, you are already paying taxes towards it.

Please at least educate yourself on this topic!

[Warren Stupidity]

32. which of those countries have repealed their systems?

Oh right. That would be none of them. When their conservative parties are in power it isn't even an issue.

[mikehiggins]

34. You've swallowed the lie, hook, line and sinker

americans are stupid? Not really. Have they been lied to for most of my life? Certainly.

The New Deal was certainly not popular with the PTB. Roosevelt had the support of millions of real people and made it work. Social Security, Medicare, many other things were not popular with the PTB but determined people made them work.

It makes no sense to be cynical if you want change. Certainly there are those who would have you believe that nothing can be done. NOthing will changed.

Sanders, etc., stand for "ahem" hope and change and also "change you can believe in." There are a lot of us out here that look at this as the last chance for America.

We look around at the political, and moral, standards of the ruling class and are not pleased.

That is why the slogan making the rounds is "fuck this shit."

We may not win tomorrow but we will not stop.

[NYCButterfinger]

46. I am humane. However, there is something called

the individual. Each human being is responsible for themselves. I am a proud person, I voted for Obama, etc., but it is time to look at ourselves instead of others. It's an individual society, it has always been that way. I don't think Bernie ' s proposal for health care will sell.

[ieoeja]

47. Why are you not a Republican? n/t

[roguevalley]

52. selfish, not humane. Sorry, kid, but you aren't humane to think that.

[darkangel218]

73. In case you delete...

NYCButterfinger
57. I am humane. However, I should not be responsible for
others.

Holy fuck....This right here, on DU.

[NYCButterfinger]

75. I am humane. I care about all of you.

However, you learn life skills in high school and college. That's what they taught me.

[darkangel218]

76. "NYCButterfinger 75. I am humane. I care about all of you."

So you are not part of "us"??

And no, I don't believe a bit that you care.

[NYCButterfinger]

83. I am humane.

This government cannot do everything. It's too much. Single payer is too much for the country to deal with right now. It's too much.

[darkangel218]

85. .

NYCButterfinger
83. I am humane.
This government cannot do everything. It's too much. Single payer is too much for the country to deal with right now. It's too much.

[NYCButterfinger]

87. Do you think a Republican House would go along with this?

They have the House until 2022. I want a President Bernie to focus on jobs. Obamacare is working. Keep it.

[darkangel218]

89. BS. This is what you said:

NYCButterfinger
57. I am humane. However, I should not be responsible for
others.

You don't want to be responsible for others. It has nothing to do with the "House".

[darkangel218]

93. In your self deleted message

You said that you "don't want to pay for anyone that.."

That what???

[SheilaT]

99. They have the House until 2022????

Whoa! What did I miss? Are we going to skip the next three elections?

[NYCButterfinger]

56. Why the hell would I be a Republican?

The party of big oil? No. I am not a Republican. Give me a break.

[ieoeja]

60. So you are not a Republican because of environmental concerns.

Thanks for answering my question.


"Why the hell would I be a Republican."

Because most people opposed to government caring for the poor already are Republicans. Were that issue more important to you than your environmental concerns, then the Republican Party would be a good fit. But since it is not, you belong right where you are in the Democratic Party.

Welcome to the party! Big tent and all that.

[NYCButterfinger]

62. I care for the poor, but they must take responsibility too

I would never be a Republican. C'mon.

[ieoeja]

68. That's what Reagan said when he shut down the VA mental hospitals.

It was time for those poor people to take responsibility.


I am seriously shocked to be having this conversation on DU.

[darkangel218]

90. You do????

NYCButterfinger
57. I am humane. However, I should not be responsible for
others.

??????

[darkangel218]

74. How can we contact MIRT?

Do you know a way?

Thanks in advance

[chervilant]

78. I know you cannot respond in this OP now, but:

On Wed Jan 20, 2016, 02:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

"Can't afford health care because you're too sick to work? Too bad. Fuck off. Not my problem."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1036566

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack against DUer. This is not how we interact civilly on this forum, primary season or not.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jan 20, 2016, 03:01 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hide-worthy, but guess what? I find NYCButterfinger's posts disgusting and I have to wonder...s/he sounds like an "interloper" trying to stir up bovine caca. So, I am NOT voting to hide this.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Responding to obvious troll.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Reluctantly, I vote to HIDE. I also think NYCButterfinger should be hauled in front of MIRT. He sounds like he read Atlas Shrugged as a teenager and mistook it for real life.

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Pshaw. It's totally how we act on this forum. And I'd be more concerned by the right-wing post this one replied to, anyways.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's over the line in its personal tone

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I can truly understand why you were so upset.

[darkangel218]

79. How can we contact MIRT?

Anyone ??

[chervilant]

80. I was a MIRT member last session.

I think I can send this alert up the line. I'll keep you posted.

[darkangel218]

81. Thank you.

It is obvious what the said poster is up to.

[chervilant]

110. Well, apparently,

the current MIRT either doesn't think this guy deserves a pizza, or they're still deliberating.

I think he now has a hiatus, with the requisite five hides.

[darkangel218]

111. I don't think is that.

I didn't pay attention to the poster's number of posts. They are well above 100, MIRT couldn't do anything about it.

[chervilant]

112. Oh, yeah, I didn't

pay attention to that.

Well, my alert went to the Admins. Maybe they will do something.

[darkangel218]

113. Thank you for following up

[chervilant]

114. You're welcome!

I've been here a little over a decade, and the Democratic folk here give me much hope.

[redwitch]

55. You think healthcare is a privilege that has to be earned?

Children too? Elderly? Guy who lost his job and has cancer? You don't sound like a Democrat to me.

[NYCButterfinger]

58. It's annoying to middle class taxpayers of all scopes

of life. We're taught in high school, the power of individual. Compassion is with charity, as well. I do all forms of charity.

[Warren Stupidity]

61. Seriously you're a republican.

That is their ideology. Every individual responsible for themselves alone. Clinton isn't good for you either, she believes in collective responsibility - it takes a fucking village and all that. I'd suggest Rand Paul or actually any of those fuckwitz running - Rubio Cruz Trump - the are all spouting the same crap as you.

[NYCButterfinger]

63. No. That's bull. I am a different type of Democrat

Someone who believes in opportunity for all, but I believe in responsibility. I don't want people aiding for me all the time. It's not right.

[redwitch]

64. That won't cut if you are chronically ill with no health care.

You sound selfish, not charitable. And I'm pretty sure you were taught this at home, not in high school.

[NYCButterfinger]

59. I believe in the people. Single payer will not go well with

swing voters.

[redwitch]

66. You believe in people?

Except if they get sick and have no healthcare and then they're annoying, right?

[NYCButterfinger]

70. I love everyone here.

You just don't understand people's perception of others. I do. I hear people saying these things. People are annoyed. Health care is a responsibility, and it gets people annoyed about this. We're not Europe. Keep Obamacare. I don't think that the country needs another debate about health care. It's annoying. Fight the fools in Congress that wants to to repeal the ACA.

[redwitch]

71. Well I definitely don't understand YOU.

Health care is indeed a responsibility. And if the wealthiest nation on the planet can't take care of it's citizens in this very basic way then I am not impressed. You don't love everyone here, what utter nonsense.

[NYCButterfinger]

92. I will always love people. Always.

[darkangel218]

94. Obviously not

NYCButterfinger
57. I am humane. However, I should not be responsible for
others.

Loving people* requires actually carying about others well beign.

[NYCButterfinger]

96. I do, but I was taught in school differently.

[SheilaT]

100. I am looking forward to the day you

lose your job, lose your health care, and then get sick.

Maybe then you'll finally understand why we here think Single Payer, or some form of Universal Health care is a good idea.

Note to alerters: If this post is hidden, you've missed the point of it. NYCButterfinger clearly doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone else, and all I wish for him as that he get to experience what he doesn't have any sympathy for.

[NYCButterfinger]

102. That's your opinion.

I don't like it, but it's yours.

[PowerToThePeople]

45. There will come a day

When the masses come calling, and then all the people you stepped on in your quest for power will have their vengeance.

Enjoy your stay.

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

72. Wait, ACA does just that

If you don't have a job, you get free healthcare. I don't follow your logic.

[demwing]

101. Are there no prisons?

And the workhouses are still in operation?

[KittyWampus]

35. Single payer is not the only road to Universal Health Care. And she's NOT "content" w/ACA

so why are you writing that falsehood?

She has many proposals to move it forward.

Why would YOU be willing to twist facts and use the suffering of millions to push your candidate through using falsehoods?

Says a lot about you.

[Orsino]

21. I guess that's settled, then.

[bkkyosemite]

26. You might want to try a baby ruth :-)

[Kalidurga]

27. post #1028

resistance is futile Berni Bros.

[Trajan]

33. He doesn't need much outside of the big states

I disagree ...

[Cal33]

38. I have just the opposiste view. I think what you wrote here did apply, but that was

six months ago. Not today. Things have turned around. Many, many polls have
shown that Bernie beat Trump by a far larger margin than Hillary did. Some
more recent polls have shown that Hillary lost to Trump.

I personally believe that Trump will not even be the Republican nominee.

[Binkie The Clown]

39. "Bernie is not electable." The lie repeated so often people begin to believe it. n/t

[JI7]

40. Sanders CAN win if he is the nominee.

[Lil Missy]

41. Agreed. But for one point ....

I like Hillary for the position of POTUS based upon her lengthy resume and qualifications. And it helps that I don't suck up all the right wingnut arguments and red herrings thrown about on her.

[Metric System]

42. I hope so.

[Beacool]

43. I'm not stressing.

Barring some unforeseeable event, Hillary will be the nominee, regardless of what happens in IA and NH.

[roguevalley]

53. we will find out soon, thank goodness.

[Beacool]

97. No, we won't.

The nomination process will last a few months.

[B Calm]

48. I use to think that way, but now I think Bernie has a better chance.

[wendylaroux]

54. thank you Carnac. nt

[Stimoyo]

65. Too tight of a race

To predict.

[Kelvin Mace]

67. You may be right,

then she will take office just in time for the economy to implode, and she will have ZERO immunity from blame because of all the money she has taken from Wall Street.

Bernie, on the other hand, would be able to use the coming meltdown to say, "This is what I am here to put a stop to".

HRC may manage to keep from getting impeached, but will lose in 2020, which means the GOP will get to gerrymander the Congress, costing us dearly for another decade.

[Vinca]

69. If she's the nominee, it won't be a slam dunk by any stretch of the imagination.

[Enrique]

98. at the end of Bernie's second term

[MariaThinks]

103. i agree with you.

[EndElectoral]

107. Glad you're clairvoyant...I'll wait and vote for Bernie.

[Mike__M]

108. LOL. A lot of people saw Clinton win in the end

Trouble was, they were looking at the wrong end. Things look different now than they did at the front end of this race.

[Autumn]

115. She could win the nomination but she won't win the GE. n/t