Does advocating for reproductive choice and lbtgq rights makes one part of the establishment

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	2 (25%)
	No
	6 (75%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Empowerer]

1. No, but, apparently, not endorsing Sanders does

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Bingo. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

2. Yawn, another false choice poll. (eom)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I can not comment on your observation as it will introduce bias into my objective poll.

Thank you in advance.


With love and respect,
DSB

[JonLeibowitz]

5. Will you be able to comment on my observation after the poll has settled? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Sure, Mr. Leibowitz/nt

[JonLeibowitz]

35. Kick. n/t

[ieoeja]

10. Not this time.

His earlier polls were shit. But if you take this one literally:

"Does advocating for reproductive choice and lbtgq rights makes one part of the establishment?"

Easy answer is "no". Plenty of people who advocate those things are not part of the establishment.

This time anybody who votes "yes" has some 'splainin' to do. Are they seriously claiming that pro-choice, Log Cabin Republicans are part of the Democratic establishment? How so? Methinks this poll is going to backfire.



"Does advocating for reproductive choice and LGBTQ rights make one NOT part of the establishment?"

The answer would still be "no". Plenty of people who are part of the establishment advocate for reproductive choice and LGBTQ rights.



"Does NOT advocating for reproductive choice and LGBTQ rights make one part of the establishment?"

Still "no". In fact, most such people are not part of the Democratic establishment. Of course, many of them are part of the Republican establishment. But I am interpreting this to be limited to Democratic establishment.



"Does NOT avocating for reproductive choice and LGBTQ rights make one NOT part of the establishment?"

Still "no". Plenty of people who do not advocate for those things are still part of the Democratic establishment. Hillary Clinton, for instance, has voted in favor of anti-abortion laws. But nobody would say she is not part of the establishment.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I regret the fact

"His earlier polls were shit..."

-ieoeja

I regret the fact you have to belittle me to elevate yourself but I refuse to respond in kind. Love>>>>hate



With love,
DSB

[JonLeibowitz]

24. Calling your polls shit is not a personal attack nor a slight against you to elevate him/herself

When you ask "Do you stand with PP in supporting HRC for President" (or something like that, the intent was the same), it is an objectively shitty poll.

At least, at least as objectively shitty to the extent you claim this poll is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Dear Mr. Leibowitz....

Sir, may we be frank with one another and agree that saying one's work product is "shitty" is tantamount to saying the man or woman who produced it is "shitty"?



Thank you in advance.


Respectfully,
DSB

[JonLeibowitz]

28. Dear Mr. DSB,

No, just as my statements to the effect that Coffeecat's posts are wonderful is not a personal endorsement of Coffeecat, as I do not personally know her. I can only evaluate the work, not the author.

Is a teacher's scorn a statement on the worth of the student? I dare say not!

Respectfully,
JonLeibowitz

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Depends

"Is a teacher's scorn a statement on the worth of the student? I dare say not!"

It could certainly have a deleterious effect on the student's self esteem.

[JonLeibowitz]

31. Well,

It is the student's responsibility to not take criticism as a personal slight. One might even see it as a sign of intellectual maturity, one stone on the path of the student becoming the master.

[JonLeibowitz]

20. Perhaps not quite false choice, but certainly misleading. People are calling them...

People are calling them establishment for very different reasons, which DSB well knows. The results of this poll may well represent the views of DU, and in that sense is not a false choice, but the poll's result will be irrelevant to why PP and HRC are taking flack for being establishment.

IMHO, of course.

[Punkingal]

13. Yep...the choices in the poll aren't what makes them part of the establishment.

[JonLeibowitz]

16. Exactly!!!

I remember the last time a poll like this was posted: "Do you stand with PP in endorsing HRC"

Everybody who said no was eviscerated.

[Gothmog]

7. I stand with Planned Parenthood and the Human Rights Campaign

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I can not comment on your observation as it will introduce bias into my objective poll.

Thank you in advance.




Respectfully,
DSB

[last1standing]

9. Keep trying to split progressives from Planned Parenthood and HRC. That should work out well.

Kkkarl Rove would be proud to see you've taken up the mantle of working to demoralize Democrats.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Obviously Hillary cannot run on the issues.

[ieoeja]

12. Pro-choice, Log Cabin Republicans are now part of the Democratic establishment?

I don't think "yes" means what you think it means.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. I will refrain from commenting on the substance of my poll as not to introduce bias.

Thank you in advance.




Respectfully,'
DSB

[Vinca]

14. I think Hillary has reached the nadir for rhetoric and then she surprises me by going lower.

She's making it very, very difficult for Bernie supporters to back her if she is the nominee.

[morningfog]

15. Making a political endorsement with a political arm of an org

without consideration of its members may. Especially when the receiver of the endorsement's is the ultimate establishment candidate and their opponent's record on the issues is better.

[beam me up scottie]

18. SPIN SPIN SPIN

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Please see post 4.

Thank you in advance.







Respectfully,
DSB

[beam me up scottie]

22. Not going to play this game, too many alerts in these threads.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. The odds are certainly in your favor, sir or madame./nt

[kath]

21. FFS. What a dishonest, ridiculous question.

desperate much?.

[Bernin4U]

26. The Establishment hardly gives a rats ass

about any social issues. But of course they will gladly use them as a wedge / pander / way to differentiate from their rivals.

[MellowDem]

30. Those should be establishment positions...

The problem is, the current Democratic establishment stands for corporate oligarchy, perpetual war, privatized healthcare, etc. The question is whether those values can co-exist. When LGBT rights were not popular, the establishment was against them, and the establishment threw LGBT people under the bus constantly. If women's reproductive rights were to become unpopular, there is no doubt in my mind the establishment would be the first to throw them under the bus.

The problem is that the current Democratic Party are moderate conservatives. Moderate conservatives can be pro choice and pro gay marriage. Is that what progressives want from a Democratic establishment though? Socially liberal only on the issues that are popular and completely economically conservative?

[Armstead]

32. No. But when the leadership collaborates with the Elites, that is Establishment

[joshcryer]

33. gay rights have been in the platform for well over a decade

reproduction rights over a quarter century

[RedCappedBandit]

34. No - those are not the relevant facts. nt

[jfern]

36. Total straw man argument