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Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:29 PM

 

The absolute worst thing about this primary

is the huge long term damage that's been done to the goal of single payer; a goal that 81% of democrats support. The party apparatchiks, under the experienced, guiding hand of Hillary Clinton, are united in telling us, single payer isn't all that, forget about it. Be happy with what we have. And anyone who thinks Hillary will spend political capital on the public option, is living in fantasyland.

So thanks, Hillary, for sacrificing the future of single payer in the Democratic party, in your noble quest to be President

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Arrow 163 replies Author Time Post
Reply The absolute worst thing about this primary (Original post)
cali Jan 2016 OP
daleanime Jan 2016 #1
liberalmike27 Jan 2016 #162
daleanime Jan 2016 #163
Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #2
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #76
PatrynXX Jan 2016 #112
Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #160
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #3
cali Jan 2016 #7
jeff47 Jan 2016 #18
Hortensis Jan 2016 #48
The Green Manalishi Jan 2016 #130
Hortensis Jan 2016 #148
The Green Manalishi Jan 2016 #157
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #140
Lordquinton Jan 2016 #21
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #66
Lordquinton Jan 2016 #135
cui bono Jan 2016 #138
baldguy Jan 2016 #99
Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #109
ablamj Jan 2016 #114
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #139
rhett o rick Jan 2016 #136
uponit7771 Jan 2016 #141
mmonk Jan 2016 #4
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #52
99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #5
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2016 #40
Jackilope Jan 2016 #129
avaistheone1 Jan 2016 #133
99th_Monkey Jan 2016 #134
Hiraeth Jan 2016 #158
HassleCat Jan 2016 #6
Auggie Jan 2016 #8
Hortensis Jan 2016 #49
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #56
randys1 Jan 2016 #57
Auggie Jan 2016 #85
Paulie Jan 2016 #98
jeff47 Jan 2016 #122
Hortensis Jan 2016 #149
ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #128
Vincardog Jan 2016 #9
TM99 Jan 2016 #10
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #58
TM99 Jan 2016 #63
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #67
TM99 Jan 2016 #71
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #78
TM99 Jan 2016 #90
stillwaiting Jan 2016 #11
pangaia Jan 2016 #33
pinebox Jan 2016 #12
pinebox Jan 2016 #13
pangaia Jan 2016 #35
arcane1 Jan 2016 #51
dreamnightwind Jan 2016 #145
arcane1 Jan 2016 #161
geardaddy Jan 2016 #59
Stryder Jan 2016 #70
Duval Jan 2016 #79
Jackilope Jan 2016 #131
msongs Jan 2016 #14
Indepatriot Jan 2016 #15
geardaddy Jan 2016 #61
brooklynite Jan 2016 #16
cali Jan 2016 #17
brooklynite Jan 2016 #20
ymetca Jan 2016 #23
bvf Jan 2016 #73
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #86
mhatrw Jan 2016 #27
jeff47 Jan 2016 #29
randome Jan 2016 #42
jeff47 Jan 2016 #47
zeemike Jan 2016 #50
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #64
zeemike Jan 2016 #75
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #84
zeemike Jan 2016 #108
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #116
zeemike Jan 2016 #121
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #60
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #80
Agony Jan 2016 #107
eridani Jan 2016 #142
democrank Jan 2016 #19
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #87
Renew Deal Jan 2016 #22
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #88
Renew Deal Jan 2016 #96
Renew Deal Jan 2016 #120
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #152
beaglelover Jan 2016 #24
mhatrw Jan 2016 #26
Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #34
hopemountain Jan 2016 #94
Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #101
Paka Jan 2016 #115
Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #155
ymetca Jan 2016 #30
shenmue Jan 2016 #97
riversedge Jan 2016 #153
Hissyspit Jan 2016 #150
pangaia Jan 2016 #37
Old Codger Jan 2016 #43
Plucketeer Jan 2016 #82
mhatrw Jan 2016 #25
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #89
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #28
Prism Jan 2016 #31
Old Codger Jan 2016 #45
MuseRider Jan 2016 #32
DanTex Jan 2016 #36
TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #38
Arugula Latte Jan 2016 #39
libdem4life Jan 2016 #41
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #91
oberliner Jan 2016 #44
hopemountain Jan 2016 #46
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #92
Francis Booth Jan 2016 #53
morningfog Jan 2016 #54
Beacool Jan 2016 #55
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #93
hopemountain Jan 2016 #104
Armstead Jan 2016 #102
tularetom Jan 2016 #105
Mnpaul Jan 2016 #111
Utopian Leftist Jan 2016 #62
PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #65
Bill USA Jan 2016 #68
pnwmom Jan 2016 #69
CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #72
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #74
Hoyt Jan 2016 #77
Armstead Jan 2016 #100
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #81
Smarmie Doofus Jan 2016 #83
Enthusiast Jan 2016 #95
TubbersUK Jan 2016 #103
Beartracks Jan 2016 #106
Paka Jan 2016 #110
emsimon33 Jan 2016 #113
Beacool Jan 2016 #117
Doctor_J Jan 2016 #118
morningfog Jan 2016 #119
truebluegreen Jan 2016 #123
morningfog Jan 2016 #124
DrBulldog Jan 2016 #126
DrBulldog Jan 2016 #125
ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #127
sammythecat Jan 2016 #147
avaistheone1 Jan 2016 #132
George II Jan 2016 #137
jtuck004 Jan 2016 #143
Post removed Jan 2016 #144
dreamnightwind Jan 2016 #146
RKP5637 Jan 2016 #151
Amimnoch Jan 2016 #154
marble falls Jan 2016 #156
Skeeter Barnes Jan 2016 #159

Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:31 PM

1. K&R.....

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 03:52 PM

162. Stay uninsured

You tens of millions of human beings, it's OK with Hillary.

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Response to liberalmike27 (Reply #162)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 03:54 PM

163. I would rather have health care then insurance.....

if that's OK with you of course.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:32 PM

2. Amen. I found her to be annoying before this. I find her straight up dangerous since.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:07 PM

76. Me too.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #2)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:17 PM

112. and despite donalds problems

I find them to be exactly the same person just as dangerous.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:35 PM

160. She has no interest in ordinary people

everything she does has to have $$$ signs attached.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:32 PM

3. You're right, maybe Sanders shouldn't have proffered unicorns from his single payer pledge and then

... put non unicorn numbers which will have us payer higher MEDIAN cost (cause few if any employer pays 7.7% for a 50,000usd salary) for single payer despite the savings promise through the government.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:35 PM

7. Jaysus, try reading

 

This isn't about right now. SP has been a long time goal in the party. Hill is stomping on that goal for her own advancement.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:35 PM

18. He doesn't do reading. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:23 PM

48. Hillary: "Affordable health care is a basic human right."

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/

Both Hillary and Bernie have almost entirely the same goals, just different paths and timetables for achieving them.

PLEASE NOTE: All presidents have to pick their fights. All presidents can only achieve a fraction of what they feel really needs to be done. The GOP/Conservative Right's efforts to block all achievements by the Obama administration will continue through the next Democratic presidency.

We have the ACA, and it will be improved step by step, eventually taking the then-almost-inevitable step of broadening Medicare to all who want it. (Because it makes incredible sense and nothing else does.)

Are you sure you wouldn't rather concentrate efforts at big change right now on raising the minimum wage, stopping that "giant sucking sound" of our wealth disappearing upwards, maybe even...battling the takeover of government by the 0.001% through comprehensive campaign finance reform?

Hillary Clinton's position on campaign finance reform:
"Our democracy should work for everyone, not just the wealthy and well-connected.

We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system, and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans. Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.”

Hillary is calling for aggressive campaign finance reform to end the stranglehold that wealthy interests have over our political system and restore a government of, by, and for the people—not just the wealthy and well-connected. Her proposals will curb the outsized influence of big money in American politics, shine a light on secret spending, and institute real reforms to raise the voices of regular voters.

Hillary will:
Overturn Citizens United. Hillary will appoint Supreme Court justices who value the right to vote over the right of billionaires to buy elections. She’ll push for a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United in order to restore the role of everyday voters in elections.
End secret, unaccountable money in politics. Hillary will push for legislation to require outside groups to publicly disclose significant political spending. And until Congress acts, she'll sign an executive order requiring federal government contractors to do the same. Hillary will also promote an SEC rule requiring publicly traded companies to disclose political spending to shareholders.
Amplify the voices of everyday Americans. Hillary will establish a small-donor matching system for presidential and congressional elections to incentivize small donors to participate in elections, and encourage candidates to spend more time engaging a representative cross-section of voters.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #48)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:48 PM

130. Good post, but

Yes. Single payer is more important than ALL OF THE OTHER ISSUES PUT TOGETHER as far as I am concerned.

As someone who was diagnosed with diabetes two weeks before being laid off at the age of 50 I will put it bluntly:

anyone against universal healthcare will be assumed to want to see me dead. and my family. Therefore reciprocation is entirely justified.

If you are against Universal health care, *NOW* I hope you are lined up against a wall and shot, and I will piss on your corpse. I don't care the letter after your name, what else you've done or haven't done, or who you support.

until that is achieved, nothing else matters. The only group of people with an equal claim to existential URGENCY of their demands related to their survival are African Americans. Again- if you're dead, nothing else matters.


BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

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Response to The Green Manalishi (Reply #130)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 05:56 AM

148. Hillary Clinton is committed to UNIVERSAL healthcare.

Best wishes for your income and your health.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #148)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 10:12 AM

157. As I've said all along, I'll support the Democratic candidate

That said, I wish she were more explicit and urgent on it.

It;s funny that, culturally I'm about as 'white' as you can get (Irish American raised middle class small town, etc), but I totally understand where BLM is coming from: If you're fucking dead nothing else matters. If there's a direct and imminent threat to your corporeal existence then anyone not addressing that threat, with urgency, is part of the problem no matter how much you agree with them on everything else,

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:09 AM

140. Who doesn't?!

Thought so

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:39 PM

21. Straight outta fox news those words are

Maybe drop the Right wing words and come back to the left?

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #21)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:58 PM

66. Can't point out the part that's false, that's ok... we don't have to talk about facts and stuff

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #66)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:42 PM

135. Unicorns are factual now?

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #135)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:04 AM

138. LOL!

Perfect.

.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:23 PM

99. +1000. The worst thing to happen to single payer would be a failure to get it passed.

 

Pres Bernie is setting up for a HUGE failure.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:08 PM

109. Scalia warned us, if we legalized teh Gay Marriage before long people would be proffering unicorns

sick, I tell you, sick

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #109)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:22 PM

114. Yeah it's sick

That's why we need Medicare for all!

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #109)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:08 AM

139. I've changed it to magical asterisks .. unicorns is too touchy for people

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 01:22 AM

136. The conservative Democrats lied to us. They said that we couldn't ask for more, that we

 

had to settle for the ACA which was a FIRST STEP. They didn't tell us that they weren't interested in any further steps. H. Clinton is at least being honest in telling the lower classes to forget getting single payer. The Wealthy 1% don't think we deserve more.

We must have change from the corruption brought to us by the American Aristocracy.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #136)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:10 AM

141. No one told anyone that, people should stop believing everything they hear from FAUX news

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:33 PM

4. That and a still inadequate regulatory regimen

in the finance field with even bigger too big to fail investment banks.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #4)


Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:34 PM

5. Hillary was for single-payer, before she was against it. Now 20 years later "It's just too hard" nt

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:09 PM

40. "It's just too hard" ...like breaking up Wall Street

 


"It's just too hard" ...like bringing back Glass Stegal

"It's just too hard" ...like giving diplomacy a chance instead of war.


"It's just too hard" ...like being honest.


"It's just too hard" ...like working for the 99%.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #40)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:44 PM

129. ... and then she has the audacity to instruct us to vote

with our heads and not our hearts.

Well, I say to her "Cut that out!" People can sense which is the sincere candidate -- and it sure as heck is not her.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:36 PM

133. I remember a time when we aspired to do things in this country because they were hard...

 

We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.




John F. Kennedy Moon Speech - Rice Stadium
September 12, 1962


Sigh...

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #133)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:39 PM

134. +10 nt

 

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #133)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 11:32 AM

158. ^^^ K&R for this post alone. Should be an OP. Thanks. ^^^

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:34 PM

6. She needs to change her tune

 

She needs to make it clear her incremental tinkering will result in something similar enough to single payer to be OK. It won't, of course, but she needs to say it will. A failure on this issue will cause many Democrats to stay home election day.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:39 PM

8. K&R. Clinton is sending Single Payer backward. That's unforgivable.

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Response to Auggie (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:26 PM

49. NO. This ISN'T THE TIME for that battle.

We have the ACA, an enormous advance over what we had before.

Let's get money out of politics. Win that one, and all other goals become far more achievable faster.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:34 PM

56. Not good at multitasking?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:40 PM

57. Have to do both, and now. The HC costs for average citizens is outrageous and we dont have to

tolerate it.

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Response to randys1 (Reply #57)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:40 PM

85. +1

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:14 PM

98. Keep stocking up on dry powder

It may stack as high as the moon but we gotta keep it dry!

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:49 PM

122. The ACA is not sustainable in the long run.

We've had some respite from rising healthcare costs, but they are still going up much faster than inflation, and waaaaaaaay faster than wages.

If left alone, we're going to have a huge problem with a mandate for utterly unaffordable insurance - the subsidies are based on poverty level. There will be a lot of people above 200% FPL who will not be able to afford health insurance.

The ACA is and always was a stopgap. We have to keep fighting this battle or the ACA will collapse.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #122)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 06:07 AM

149. Yes, the ACA will continue to be improved.

Frankly, I doubt the ACA will be replaced directly in the foreseeable future. Too many people have drunk the Kool-Aid and will fight for their right to pay profiteers to process their paperwork at great expense.

Instead, the ACA will be tweaked as needed, and eventually the single-payer option the entire nation needs will be made available. At that point, large numbers of people will choose single-payer and the ACA's for-profit market will begin to collapse.

Private-enterprise "insurance" companies will continue to offer Cadillac and specialty policies outside the government system.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #49)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:19 PM

128. There Will Be NO Getting Money Out Of Politics If She's

the nominee. Do some homework and see where HER MONEY IS COMING FROM!!!!!!!

BTW, for the first time since I've had my Retiree Humana PPO, I'm having to pay $42.50 a month. That's on top of what I pay for Medicare! So look behind what the ACA really did. Yes, it started the ball rolling, but behind the door concessions were made with Big Pharma and Insurance Companies! THEY HAVE TO GO!

As much as I dislike putting ACA down, there are people now who are finding that their plan has higher deductibles and covers less. Check it out. Doctors are now calling for what Bernie is talking about. Scrap ACA and start from scratch. My daughter and son-in-law both work in the medical field and have Masters Degrees as ARNP's and see their own patients who have been complaining about this.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:44 PM

9. It isn't up to our bought and paid for "Leaders" it is up to US. It is time the democratic "leaders"

Began to lead in the direction WE want to go.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:44 PM

10. Anyone paying attention knew this was going to happen.

 

Sensible woodchucks yammered on that single payer, medicare for all, whatever we call it was never going to pass even with Democratic majorities. We must accept the insurance mandate (which Clinton campaigned on in 2008 and pushed in 1993) as the greatest advancement of the social safety net since Medicare.

Some of us tried to tell everyone then that once the ACA passed there was never going to be a building up of universal healthcare for all on top of it. Not only would it take D majorities in Congress and the White House, but it would take a Democratic party that really and truly believed in that. Obama didn't, at least not enough. Clinton sure as hell doesn't believe in it. Sanders is the only one.

Clinton isn't sacrificing it. She never wanted it to begin. Ever! If we want half a chance of getting this, Sanders must be in the White House. Then we can work on getting more progress D's in congress.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:42 PM

58. I think you are wrong

Some of us tried to tell everyone then that once the ACA passed there was never going to be a building up of universal healthcare for all on top of it.


Because the numbers are going to force it. Too many people even on ACA cannot afford their deductibles and Hillary is not going to get them down by much (if at all), no matter what she says. And too many can't afford the premiums either...especially older people, as the premiums really go up for them.

Single payer will happen and the sooner we push it through (and it will take us...the public...pushing it, not just a senator or President) the sooner it will start to actually help the middle class move back toward middle class again.

Before it was passed, people couldn't see the numbers. They are starting to see them and pay attention now.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #58)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:51 PM

63. No, some of us did predict that

 

an insurance mandate would lead to high deductibles. We also predicted that tiered care would become cost prohibitive. We knew these numbers were coming. So did those on the inside pushing this upon us.

The only way to get a national health care system is slowly phase it in as we phase out the ACA. I do not think the two are ever going to be compatible. We can't just scrap the ACA of course, slowly adding recipients by age group to medicare is important.

Sanders latest plan is not a single payer. It is a Medicare for all.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:58 PM

67. I'm not talking about ACA

I think you are wrong in thinking single payer can never happen. It will take a big push by us...grassroots getting behind someone leading in Washington (like Bernie) and helping to get dems back in congress and getting money out of politics...all those things are possible if we work together. Being a quitter because it's just too hard, never got anything done.

No, Medicare has co-pays, premiums and deductibles. His plan has one tax payment and that's it. You are covered. That is single payer.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #67)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:01 PM

71. I would argue it is a combination then.

 

Medicare is already in place. Shift every one to it. A single tax payment yes and covered. Then work to address the rest.

I just don't see us completely replacing one system for another with success any time soon.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #71)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:13 PM

78. There will always be private insurance companies.

Last edited Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

That is what Medicare uses now to administer healthcare. 30 different private insurance companies. There will always be cadillac plans available for the wealthy who want more. Bernie is not going to end all private insurance. But there is no reason he can't offer his single payer plan, which will just be Medicare modified to his new rules. Instead of paying a tax for Medicare it will be a tax for single payer, but no more deductibles and premiums and co-pays.

He's not taking anything away...just changing it. If you already have insurance through your employer, you will now have it through the federal government, but your employer still kicks in their contribution (not sure I agree with this). It's a health insurance plan, but it will probably be administered by private insurers, just like Medicare is now, so if you have an ACA or company plan, the same provider may be the one assigned to handle your new single payer plan.

It needs to be fleshed out, but he's on the right track and we need to get behind him and force it through.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #78)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:54 PM

90. Yes, now we are in agreement.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:45 PM

11. This alone should galvanize us to BEAT her NOW. If she wins the damage will be done.

If she doesn't win, then her message is REJECTED, and Bernie will most certainly tell the American people repeatedly that we CAN do it.

She must lose to Bernie.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:01 PM

33. Even if she doesn't win she will have caused huge damage

Too bad she doesn't give a shit.

I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT !! ME ME ME !!!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:49 PM

12. "Apparatchiks" lol Quote of the day

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:51 PM

13. I'll share this EVERY SINGLE CHANCE I GET!

 

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Response to pinebox (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:02 PM

35. THIS should be EVERYWHERE!!

TV, newspaper, the intertubes..... everywhere...

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Response to pinebox (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:31 PM

51. "Shame on ANY DEM who attacks single-payer."

 

She stands for nothing.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #51)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 03:41 AM

145. She never once mentioned single payer in that vid

and as far as I can tell, she never does.

The corporate politicians, again and again, attempt to conflate universal with single payer, and they are not the same, yet we fall for it, over and over again.

When someone says they support universal healthcare, we need to call them on it and make them say if they mean single payer or not. In almost all cases when a politician says universal, they mean requiring everyone to buy private health insurance. In most cases that regular citizens say universal, they are thinking of single payer.

I support single payer, and will not fall for the false advertising used when politicians say universal. Neither should anyone else.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #145)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:45 PM

161. Great point!

 

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Response to pinebox (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:48 PM

59. +1 million n/t

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Response to pinebox (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:01 PM

70. Oh my.

Hadn't seen that one before.
Let's keep that bookmarked.
Dem health care debate. Over.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:14 PM

79. Thanks, pinebox.

 

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Response to pinebox (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:53 PM

131. "Shame On You, Hillary"

I would live to see that video edited with then and now footage so that we can visually and audibly see how HRC -- the darling of Wall St,-- morphs into what her tirade was all about. The HRC of 08 and HRC of now in regards to lecturing about core Democratic principles and how she behaves now should be posted on every social media platform.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:59 PM

14. another extremely prominent DC democrat killed that off 7 years ago nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:28 PM

15. Mr. Pop speaks the truth.

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Response to Indepatriot (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:50 PM

61. +1

Love Iggy!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:33 PM

16. It's always nice to have an advance excuse for your failure.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:34 PM

17. That is puerile nonsense

 

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Response to cali (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:36 PM

20. Okay, try this...

Paul Krugman: "a simple, straightforward single-payer system just isn’t going to happen"

What this means, as the health policy expert Harold Pollack points out, is that a simple, straightforward single-payer system just isn’t going to happen. Even if you imagine a political earthquake that eliminated the power of the insurance industry and objections to higher taxes, you’d still have to protect the interests of workers with better-than-average coverage, so that in practice single-payer, American style, would be almost as kludgy as Obamacare.

Which brings me to the Affordable Care Act, which was designed to bypass these obstacles. It was careful to preserve and even enlarge the role of private insurers. Its measures to cover the uninsured rely on a combination of regulation and subsidies, rather than simply on an expansion of government programs, so that the on-budget cost is limited — and can, in fact, be covered without raising middle-class taxes. Perhaps most crucially, it leaves employer-based insurance intact, so that the great majority of Americans have experienced no disruption, in fact no change in their health-care experience.

Even so, achieving this reform was a close-run thing: Democrats barely got it through during the brief period when they controlled Congress. Is there any realistic prospect that a drastic overhaul could be enacted any time soon — say, in the next eight years? No.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7540388

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Response to ymetca (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:05 PM

73. Good read!

 

Clinton looks just terrible in this, and rightly so. All opportunism, zero integrity.

I especially liked Corcoran's take on Krugman's argument:

(Krugman) acknowledges, unlike Clinton, that the savings from single-payer would offset any tax increase. But when he says (emphasis added) "it would be difficult to make that case to the broad public, especially given the chorus of misinformation you know would dominate the airwaves," he is unwittingly describing Hillary Clinton herself.

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Response to ymetca (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:43 PM

86. Excellent article! Krugman is flat out lying.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:50 PM

27. "No, We Can't!"

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:54 PM

29. We have been fighting for single-payer for more than 80 years.

If you think "but you can't pass it in the next two!!!" is going to stop us, you're quite wrong.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:11 PM

42. If by 'we', you mean America in general, I disagree.

 

Politicians have been doing the fighting. The people have been on the sidelines, which is why nothing will ever get done.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:22 PM

47. Because if you don't personally see it, it never happened, right?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:28 PM

50. That's the spin they put on it.

"I'ts a complete overhaul of the system"...and so it can't be done.

And that is bullshit...I say don't touch the system at all...leave it just as it is and just lower the age of Medicare and allow people to buy into it instead of the ACA to comply with the mandate...problem solved.
If the system as it now exists is a good one it will survive, if not it will wither on the vine and die...is not that what the invisible hand of the market wants?

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Response to zeemike (Reply #50)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:52 PM

64. Medicare needs a lot of improvement for it to work as single payer

Affordability is just one issue. Lack of necessary coverage, like vision, dental too. I don't know if hearing is covered. Medicare is there for emergencies, but without an advantage plan to help pay for it, it's just unaffordable for many of us.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:07 PM

75. Affordability is the first issue.

If that is not met then the rest is moot.
And affordability it the problem with the ACA...millions cannot afford it but it is mandated anyway...so they will have to buy a plan that has such a high deductible that health care will be out of reach still...and that is for things more pressing than dental and vision.

BTW I am on Medicare and do not have advantage plan...it has kept me alive and that is something. I would love more coverage but that will never happen as long as the approach is for profit and not single payer.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #75)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:39 PM

84. T totally agree with everything you've said here.



Medicare has kept me alive too, but I can't afford the things that might give me quality of life, like the full knee replacement and physical therapy that I need.

And maybe you don't have serious dental or vision problems, but they too can seriously affect your quality of life and your ability to function in society.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #84)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:07 PM

108. No I could defiantly benefit from them.

And like you I can't afford them.
And the way things are going I probably will have to die with bad teeth and poor vision and hearing...because profit is more important.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #108)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:49 PM

116. Let's get Bernie into office and see where that takes us!

I'm not giving up on him.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #116)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:38 PM

121. Absolutely.

He is our best shot at real change.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:49 PM

60. Krugman is an establishment insider. n/t

You want to know what is really happening, listen to Richard D Wolff.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:19 PM

80. I have added Krugman to my personal enemies list. Any single payer nay sayer gets to join.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:02 PM

107. Krugman admits that Medicare for All is the best solution. He just doesn't think it worth fight for.

I guess both of you got what you need. The 13% of americans that still don't have health insurance can die in a ditch, fuck em'.

and 25% of them will.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:59 AM

142. Really strange that an economist has jackshit to say about the ECONOMICS of single payer

I'm sure glad that advocates of marriage equality and MJ legalization didn't listen to bullshit like this a few years ago.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:35 PM

19. More of the same from Clinton.

Just a repeat of her behavior last time she ran for president. She`ll say ANYTHING if she thinks it will help her get elected. ANYTHING.
And, she doesn`t give a damn who she has to mow over while she`s saying it.


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Response to democrank (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:45 PM

87. It ain't workin' on me.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:40 PM

22. I think the lack of specificity by the Sanders campaign is causing the real damage.

It looks unserious and opens up Sanders to the "fantasyland" critique. There wouldn't be damage if there was a real plan.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:49 PM

88. There is plenty of specificity. There is a real plan. It is the lies that are doing the damage.

How do you think we feel about Hillary now? We love her more because she has saved us from single payer?

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:07 PM

96. Have you looked at the plan?

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:19 PM

120. I found that plan you were looking for

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #120)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 07:31 AM

152. You are looking for it, not me.

I trust that this nation can achieve a Medicare For All plan that will be satisfactory to the people. Of course the health care profiteers won't care for it.

The rest of the modern world has single payer universal. I'm sure the USA can cobble something together that doesn't include the pirates.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:44 PM

24. Single payer will never get through Congress. It's a pipe dream to think Bernie can

accomplish this. A total pipe dream. We need to build upon the ACA, not destroy it.

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Response to beaglelover (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:48 PM

26. "No, We Can't!"

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Response to mhatrw (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:01 PM

34. Everytime one of them oozes into my view - COMPLETE IGNORE!

 

It's rare for me to see many Hillbots anymore. In the off chance I do encounter one I scroll into action!

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Response to Elmer S. E. Dump (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:01 PM

94. good job!

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Response to Elmer S. E. Dump (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:32 PM

101. Their "can't do" attitude is getting rather annoying

Ugh!

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Response to Elmer S. E. Dump (Reply #34)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:33 PM

115. Two or three of the worst have gone missing lately.

I don't have to scroll as often these days it seems.

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Response to Paka (Reply #115)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 09:28 AM

155. What ticks me off is even if they are on ignore you still see their OPS

 

which is what infuriates me most - particularly a certain poster that lives by a bank on a body of water. I just want them all to go away.

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Response to beaglelover (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:58 PM

30. The ACA

did nothing much for most people. It did pretty much zero to help the majority who have employer-based (aka "suck-ass" health insurance plans, and don't qualify for anything ACA offers. That's millions of hard-working people lucky enough to have a job and not (yet) too sick.

When they say "it is bending the cost curve", translate that as "I can't go see the doctor because I cannot pay the deductable".

In other words, people with employer-based health insurance are getting royally screwed. Worse than ever. Hence all the Republican bloviating on the subject, which the Democrats refuse to even acknowledge.

Which is why Bernie Sanders' pledge for Medicare For All is critical, and it really chaps my ass that Hillary Clinton is trashing it because she is pandering for the black vote. ACA = "Obamacare" = HRC. A not-so-subtle subterfuge. Quite disgusting, actually.

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Response to ymetca (Reply #30)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:09 PM

97. Except fund all my treatment for multiple sclerosis

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Response to shenmue (Reply #97)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 08:07 AM

153. I am so happy to hear that the ACA has helped you. I, too have a

sister who because of a chronic condition--had no health insurance for years. It has helped so many. Hillary is committed to universal health care--but I think it wise to go in increments at this moment in time.

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Response to ymetca (Reply #30)


Response to beaglelover (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:05 PM

37. Never, no, can't do it....

pipe dream...

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Response to beaglelover (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:16 PM

43. It will never

 

Get through anywhere if no one tries, you sound just like your BFF there, she quits before she starts ...So apparently do you is it all that much fun or is it frustrating to never ever try anything that may not work out the way you want???

All you quitters need to get it together and quit this also...She is in the tank with Wall Street, she has and will continue to sell the rest of us out just to get her dream,a night mare for the 99% but sweet dreams for the 1%...

she and her bunch just keep on quitting it is what losers do... Wrong side of the table this time around...

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Response to beaglelover (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:28 PM

82. Yeah - all we need is some duct tape, a bit of imaginative sleight-of-hand

 

some splints 'n splices and the ACA will be the envy of the world.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:48 PM

25. There is a special circle of hell reserved for Hillary and all of her "No, We Can't" shills.

Last edited Fri Jan 22, 2016, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)

It's an emergency waiting room with No Exit.

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Response to mhatrw (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:52 PM

89. Huge +1!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:52 PM

28. She's also the type to put the ACA on the table for a trade deal.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:59 PM

31. And her campaign and supporters are starting to sound like Republicans

 

A strong social safety net is one of the foundational planks of the Democratic Party.

Suddenly, everyone's like, "Noooo, my taxes! We need tax cuts!"

So, we're all George W. Bush now, are we?

Her candidacy is cannibalizing basic Democratic premises to boost herself.

Whatever, liberalism, it's Hillary's trophy. That's all that matters!

So weird.

Curbing Wall Street is also, you know, hard and stuff. And only Clinton has the foreign policy chops to continue an unmitigated string of neoconservative clusterfucks!

It's like no one hears themselves.

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Response to Prism (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:18 PM

45. Starting???

 

Started long time ago..

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 04:59 PM

32. I wish I could rec this

a thousand times.

All I see and hear is that we need to stop wishing for better things. We can do little bits that don't really help anyone and even then only a few of those little bits. Why try to make it better when it is so hard? Those poor people on the streets? Move them, problem solved. You get sick and you are in group you can't afford? Too bad, so sad, it just has to be this way. Well they sure as hell take good care of themselves. Enough so that they can talk about money like it is uninteresting to them and never know how that sounds to the 99%.

We are so screwed when even our dreams for a better country for all of us get shut down by the people we hire to help make it work. Yes, our dreams are too grand. Stop it, just cut it out.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:05 PM

36. Any damage that has been done is Bernie's fault for not presenting a remotely realistic plan.

Although the chances of single payer were zero before this, and zero after, so I don't think it's much of a loss.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:05 PM

38. A vote for Hillary is a vote to take single-payer off the table for at least eight years.

Think about all the lives that will continue to be lost, because health care is still unaffordable.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:09 PM

39. She is selfish, arrogant, and entitled.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:10 PM

41. We will have Single Payer...Hillary is off the rails. That is a Democratic Foundation.

 

She can just go and run the Clinton Foundation and see how well that works when there is no political power to wield. the one word that puts the fear of gawd into her...irrelevancy.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #41)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:54 PM

91. +1 an entire shit load.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:18 PM

44. I think the opposite is true

 

I think Sanders has made a very convincing case for single payer and will push for it aggressively if he is elected president.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:20 PM

46. hillary is weak and phony

she is showing her true colors under all of this pressure. deep down, she is for the 1%, through and through. now when i see her on television i understand how much of an act she puts out - and it is cracking like glass. she just may shatter.

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Response to hopemountain (Reply #46)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:55 PM

92. +1 a whole bunch!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:32 PM

53. Very good point. Well spoken. nt

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:33 PM

54. And she is just getting started with her shit slinging.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:34 PM

55. Reality check.

'But as Clinton reminded voters during the Democratic debate on Sunday, President Obama's not-very-revolutionary healthcare law barely squeaked through to passage in 2010.

“There was an opportunity to vote for what was called the public option,” she noted — a government-run plan that wasn't even as ambitious as single payer. “And even when the Democrats were in charge of the Congress, we couldn't get the votes for that.”

In other words: You can't get there from here.

Clinton is probably right. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll last year found that only 26% of Americans want to expand Obamacare — mostly Democrats. A far larger number, 42%, want to scale the plan back or scrap it entirely. (Most of those are non-Democrats, but once the question is before Congress, their preference matters too.)

Besides, Sanders hasn't even begun to sell single payer to the American public — unless you count giving his plan the comforting title “Medicare for All.”

Almost nine months after he announced his candidacy, he still hasn't produced a full description of how his proposal would work. He released an eight-page summary before Sunday's debate, but it focused on how he would pay for the plan (new taxes, mostly on the wealthy), not how it would actually deliver care.'

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0120-mcmanus-sanders-clinton-revolution-20160120-column.html

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Response to Beacool (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:00 PM

93. We don't care about another fake assed organization like the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Their findings are fake just like the Heritage Foundation and the other fake assed propaganda outfits.

Hillary is definitely wrong.

We have the entire developed world as an example. Hillary is definitely wrong. She is going to lose because she betrayed us.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #93)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:39 PM

104. yes, fake as in 'controlled by the establishment'

as someone else pointed out: look at the lists of their board members.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:33 PM

102. no we can't no we can't no we can't

 

so inspiring.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:53 PM

105. So lets just give up

In fact what's the point of fighting for anything. We have to be pragmatic like Hillary. We can't get all this pie in the sky stuff so why delude ourselves any longer.

In fact, since she's more or less told us that we have to lower our expectations, whats the point of electing her? We can either have her dismantle Social Security or have a republican president do it. We can either have her start WW3 or have a republican do it.

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Response to Beacool (Reply #55)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:15 PM

111. We can't get there

if we keep electing corporate sellouts. Democrats and Lieberman killed the public option. Democrats had the single payer folks tossed from the hearings. If we keep voting for the same old, nothing will change for the better.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:50 PM

62. The Republicons biggest fear about "Obamacare"

was that the populace would deduce from it that medical care is a human right, rather than a luxury bestowed at-will upon workers by their employer uberlords.

They did not want us to come to our senses and realize that there is NO reason why America should be without what EVERY other country in the developed world has!

Yes, their biggest fear was that we would come to our senses and realize that health care is a human right, IF WE ONLY CHOOSE TO MAKE IT ONE!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:54 PM

65. That is what they want

 

If you are correct, they win even if Hillary loses. I hope you are not correct.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 05:59 PM

68. do you think this can be done without Dems controlling BOTH the House and Senate?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:00 PM

69. I think the opposite. Sanders' insistence that the ACA must now be replaced

by his $14 trillion version of Medicare-for-all just means that BOTH parties would be saying (if he's the nominee) that the ACA was no good and should be replaced.

The Rethugs will promise they have some plan much cheaper than $14 trillion -- whether they do or don't -- and voters will jump for it.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:02 PM

72. K&R and I fear for what else she'd throw under the bus that will hurt us.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:05 PM

74. I'm not about to accept the ACA as the final evolution of this health care system.

Considering all the other developed nations have universal single payer it is ridiculous to remain with the status quo.

We cannot continue to pay this amount of money which amounts to nothing more than a gift to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

HILLARY IS WRONG.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:10 PM

77. Yep Third Way Oligarchs -- like Krugman and Klein -- have no idea of what they speak.

The GOPers can't wait to jump on board and help Sanders and Democrats pass Single Payer.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #77)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:31 PM

100. No we can't no we can't no we can't no we can't no we can't no we can't

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:22 PM

81. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, cali.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 06:38 PM

83. I'm not sure it's the absolute worst thing, but it's pretty bad. K and R

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:01 PM

95. Kicked and recommended a bazillion times! Because fuck this shit!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:34 PM

103. K & R n/t

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 07:54 PM

106. Even if we reach for single-payer, and all we get is...

... the Public Option put into the ACA, THAT will be a big improvement.

But if we only end up reaching for the Public Option to start with, the whole effort will be negotiated away to something negligible.

=====================

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:14 PM

110. K&R

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:19 PM

113. No, her ignoble quest for president

Given how she is alienating the liberal base, if she is the nominee, she won't win. Soooo, thank you for giving the country to the Republicans (and a BIG thanks to DSW, who needs to be disappeared.) if you are the nominee.

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #113)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 08:53 PM

117. Ignoble quest????

Yes, let's all hail Sanders, the Saint of Liberalism. How dare Hillary run for president against such a paragon of political virtue?

This place is nuts.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:14 PM

118. Also, "doing away with the insurance companies would tarnish Obama's legacy"

 

I can't even believe you can read this kind of shit on a Dem site. The end of the party. If the Republicans ever get back to letting sane people run for president, there won't be enough Dems left to play cricket

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 09:19 PM

119. The worst thing is Hillary felt the need to run another shitty campaign.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #119)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:05 PM

123. The worst thing is Hillary felt the need to run at all.

 

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #123)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:07 PM

124. True. And a leopard can't change its stripes.

 

Had that pesky socialist not meddled in her right to the nomination, she wouldn't have had to turn so nasty. Just like that upstart from '08.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #124)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:10 PM

126. Ha! Ha! Ha! Good one!

 

A leopard with stripes! That really does describe Hillary! What in hell is she?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:08 PM

125. The slogan "No, we can't" coming from the Clinton campaign is horrible for our nation.

 

Yet Hillary claims she wants to follow the legacy of "Yes, we can" Obama. LOL.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 10:11 PM

127. As Each Day Goes By, My Feelings About Her Plummet More...

The worst of it is this... IF she is the nominee I'll have to vote for someone I completely dislike and know in my heart of hearts that what she's saying in her run this time is just a whole lotta BUNK!

I -- DO -- NOT -- BELIEVE -- HER! I feel our very own Democratic Party is really selling us something we don't want to buy. Has a bad odor and difficult to digest.

I so wish I felt differently because this is the very first time I've felt this much distrust in a Democratic candidate in my life! I could make a long list of my reasons, but I've said enough.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #127)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 04:45 AM

147. Exactly how I feel as well.

"If she is the nominee I'll have to vote for someone I completely dislike..."

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Response to cali (Original post)

Thu Jan 21, 2016, 11:28 PM

132. Don't blame me. I told you already Hillary is disingenuous.

 

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 01:34 AM

137. How about the huge long-term damage done to Democrats up and down the ticket by....

....the divisiveness of the Sanders campaign?

No Democratic majority in either House? No chance of single payer!

By the way, if single payer was so important to Sanders, why has he been unable to convince the powers that be in his home state of Vermont (i.e, Democrats) to implement it there?

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:59 AM

143. Leave it to the Democrats and Republicans and you will never see single payer. n/t

 

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Response to cali (Original post)


Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 03:48 AM

146. K & R, I don't think it's the worst thing, but it IS terrible

That I feel there are others things even worse (the hope-a-dope on getting money out of politiccs by supporting a corporate politician who says she will try to do so would be my choice) in no way diminishes the damage she is doing to single payer advocacy.

And I'll repeat one more thing here that I guess I need to keep repeating, because I see it agan and again in people's posts (not the OP, which used the correct language): Universal healthcare DOES NOT MEAN single payer!

Over and over again, Hillary and her supporters say "universal", and when they do people hear "single payer". Big mistake. The establishment politicians supporting universal are supporting a system to require every American to purchase private health insurance.

It's my opinion the private insurers are the problem, not the solution, and we need single payer.

Thanks for the OP.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 06:41 AM

151. I started out really supporting her, but now I've gone the other way. The more I see and hear

of HRC, now, the more I like Bernie. I will certainly vote in the GE for the nominee, but I do like Bernie. He reminds me of what democrats used to be like when I was a kid.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 08:19 AM

154. Wow, we almost agree on this,

Except I blame Sanders for his lies.

If there was ANY chance.. at all.. that the 115th congress would pass any version of a single payer.. you and Bernie would have a point.

but there isn't, and you don't.

To have tossed out single payer and raised the hopes of so many where there is absolutely NO POSSIBILITY of it passing with any potential version of the next congress was irresponsible and damaging.

Your candidate did the damage by lying and pretending that it could be put on the table. Bernie is the quintessential politician. Lies through his teeth and promises things he knows damn well he'd never be able to accomplish.

Hell, President Obama, with a MUCH more sympathetic version of congress in 2009, tried with everything he had to just get the Government option on the table and couldn't. This is another Sanders unicorn.



Now.. let the "but at least he's going to try" bullshit begin.

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 10:02 AM

156. k & r!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to cali (Original post)

Fri Jan 22, 2016, 02:16 PM

159. $250,000 per hour is fine for her and Bill but she thinks $15 per hour is too much for you and me.

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