I prefer a politics of "Yes" versus a politics of "No"

[Armstead]

You may lose the battle for the goals you fight for.

You definitely lose the goals you walk away from.

That's reality.

If the Democratic Party chooses to say "No We Can't Do That" it will be correct.

[DanTex]

1. I prefer reality, personally.

[Armstead]

4. I'll put that in the "No" column

[DanTex]

6. Apparently you don't have a "reality" column, so put it wherever you want.

[Armstead]

7. Reality is you try you might win or fail...Don't try and you definitely fail

[DanTex]

9. Reality is that there are tradeoffs, costs and benefits.

[Armstead]

22. The tradeoffs costs and benefits come along once you've decided to do something

There are no tradeoffs, costs or benefits if you just say "Nah let's not try that" from the beginning

[DanTex]

23. Depends how dumb the thing you want to try is.

[Armstead]

25. Yeah universal affordable health care is dumb

A public retirement fund to guarantee incomes for older Americans was stupid too.

[DanTex]

26. That's not dumb at all.

[highprincipleswork]

76. So then, the "reality" is, we all really want it, so why not say so and stop attacking it?

[Ken Burch]

21. In Hilsprache, "Reality" means "giving up"

Her notion of "reality" means settling for nothing but tiny increments. And we are past the time when icremental change can ever be of any value again.

[earthside]

35. I prefer hope, personally.

The politics of "Yes ... we can!"

[Avalux]

36. DanTex, I take you to be a person limited by reality.

You look at what's in front of you and even if you're not quite happy with it, are too afraid to believe you have the power to change it. It's called settling.

[DanTex]

43. I don't play the lottery, if that's what you mean.

Are there things I'm not quite happy with? Sure. I don't expect everything to be perfect always. I focus on what's important. YMMV

[tk2kewl]

2. You miss all the shots you don't take

[Metric System]

3. I prefer unicorns versus horses, but at least I know one is fantasy and the other reality.

[Armstead]

5. Nope we can't

Okay. We can't.

[last1standing]

11. You think ponies aren't real?

That explains why you've fallen for Hillary's lies so easily.

[Metric System]

16. You know damn well I meant unicorns! (honestly)

[Armstead]

32. Got your unicorns and ponies mixed up? Don't forget the rainbows.

[last1standing]

46. No, I don't "damn well" know that! (honestly)

I think you have a lot of passion but little understanding to back it up and that comes out as ignorance in your posts.

[Metric System]

47. Could you be more condescending? I was making light of my little pony mistake. See what I did there?

[last1standing]

68. You try to make a comment about Bernie supporters wanting unicorns but I'm condescending.

Want to try again?

[Ken Burch]

24. Bernie hasn't promised unicorns.

And HRC isn't going to even try to do anything big. We already know that, if elected, she will work to suppress and silence activists the way Rahm ended the Obama movement and the way Bill spent more time trying to crush the left than he ever did working foc change.

[last1standing]

8. You're being unfair to NoHope Hillary.

After all, she's just being a "realist" and "practical." Why should she fight for something unless she's 100% positive that she'll win from the beginning and never have to compromise?

[dlwickham]

10. I think I saw this in a fortune cookie

or maybe a t-shirt

bathroom wall perhaps?

[Armstead]

12. I can't claim it's an original thought -- but it's true

[last1standing]

13. Maybe you heard it during a NoHope Hillary stump speech.

[dlwickham]

14. no

[last1standing]

15. Maybe it was in one of her solicitations.

You know, the ones that say "Please send me $2700.00 dollars so I can tell you there's nothing we can do."

[JoePhilly]

17. Black and white thinking ... awesome.

[Armstead]

19. Sometimes it boils down to that

Issues and problems are infinetly complex, and one can follow the intricacies and paradoxes down a rabbit hole to the point of paralysis.

But sometimes you got to step back and look at the overall picture in basic terms of values, goals and possibilities.

[JoePhilly]

27. No, it never boils down to that.

Not in a country with three co-equal branches of government.

[Armstead]

30. "No....Not" "Never" ....Okay, I get your point

[HerbChestnut]

18. So I take it you wouldn't vote for...

[Armstead]

20. Looks like Bernie.....

kidding

[Agnosticsherbet]

28. I prefer protecting what advances we've made,

Rather than risking everything for a pie in the sky revolution and goodnight promises.

We move ahead in places we can.

With Republican control of the House and Senate, real Change is a fantasy.

[Armstead]

29. Real change is a fantasy....Okay, another for the "No" column

Let's just call off the election and let the GOP have it all

[Agnosticsherbet]

34. You did not understand what I wrote.

We need a complete government to make real change.

A President can't do it with promises, executive orders or appointments. A House and Senate is necessary.

And since Obama can't extend his administration by executive order we need an election.

[Ed Suspicious]

39. So get him a complete government.

Or go with "We can't do it. Republicans are just too awesome."

[Agnosticsherbet]

44. Republicans succeeded in winning the majority of states

Because Democratic voters refused to vote. They gerrymandered districts to make sure Republicans won, thanks to Democrats who did not vote.

I Will believe Democrats will show up when I see it. I am a realist.

[TekGryphon]

58. The problem with your logic is that the ONLY people I've seen who aren't committed to...

... going to the voting booths and putting Democrats in office are people like you.

In my mind, you and yours are the true "No" voters. If you don't get your pony, then you'll burn the progressive movement, and all its causes and its decades of progress, straight to the ground.

[Ed Suspicious]

70. It's cute you should say that, especially as it's happening at the same time Hillary is hosting

a veritable bonfire of progressive causes as she heaves healthcare and education into the flames.

[TekGryphon]

72. She has done no such thing, but...

... you continue to work your ass off to motivate people to stay home in November, guaranteeing a conservative Presidency with a conservative Congress, and then you WILL watch education and healthcare burn.

Keep up the good work, "ally".

[Ed Suspicious]

73. I have done no such thing!

I want everyone and their brother to come out and vote for Bernie in November!

[TekGryphon]

75. If he gets the nomination, I'll be fighting for the same.

You won't find me sulking at home because my "favorite" candidate lost, and telling others why voting for Bernie is a wasted effort.

[Armstead]

41. You gotta start somewhere IF you want progress

And the GOP has the House and Senate because we don't stand for real alternatives and aggressively sell them often enough. We offer tapioca.


....and variations of the same excuses are used even when Dems are in power.

[Agnosticsherbet]

45. Fortuantely, people like FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, and Obama started the ball.

And before them, people like Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.

Change is a process carried out through time.

Republicans have the House and Senate because Democrats refused to get out and vote. The whole argument about alternatives is just Unicorn farts.

[Armstead]

49. Okay let's just say the process was interrupted after 1980 when the Dems surrendered liberalism

So it's time to REstart the ball's motion.

[Agnosticsherbet]

77. Actually, FDR, Kennedy, and Johnson were liberals.

They didn't surrender to it.

Teddy was a conservative progressive.

Lincoln was a conservative but the definitions have changed since his day.

[Ed Suspicious]

31. The political version of the prevent defense. I hate when they run that.

[Agnosticsherbet]

37. The fuck everything if I don't get what I want offense

Is much worse.

[Ed Suspicious]

38. No. It's the "Fuck you if you won't even try."

[Ed Suspicious]

33. When do you go for it? When we have a Republican Pres? Good luck. You seem resigned to the idea

that we'll never get what we want.

[Agnosticsherbet]

40. Not resigned at all. I support the candidate

I think has the best chance in the general. I don't believe the sacrifice play is a good theory of government.

[whatchamacallit]

42. Hillary IS a 'yes' candidate. Yes to war and the status quo. n/t

[JTFrog]

48. So, that's a "Yes" on reparations then?

Just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

[Armstead]

50. You're welcome to try

In fact I encourage it.

Try to generate enough popular support to make the politicians (including Bernie and Clinton) take notice. Then press all politicians to follow the will of the people.

Hey, fine with me.

[JTFrog]

52. Uh, huh.

Your hypocrisy is showing.

[Armstead]

54. That's not hypocrisy. It's the same principle

There's a lot of things I'd personally love to see happen. I set my priorities.

You're welcome to do the same. Go ahead and generate support for it.

[JTFrog]

57. There was very little support for educating black people as well.

Should we have just thrown up our hands and said fuck it?

I thought Bernie was the "try anyway" guy?

[Armstead]

60. He's a racist piug. I am a racist pig. .....Happy?

You're being ridiculous.

[JTFrog]

63. No, but there is a glaring flaw in your OP title. n/t

[Armstead]

64. Whatever...You bore me now

[Live and Learn]

62. What? Bernie is the one working for free education for all. nt

[JTFrog]

65. Probably not in 1957. n/t

[Live and Learn]

66. He probably was. You obviously don't know much about him. nt

[JTFrog]

67. LOL! n/t

[Live and Learn]

69. PNCTR! nt

[Live and Learn]

61. Huh, I think you must be looking in a mirror. nt

[Ed Suspicious]

74. That's what this thing is all about! It's the core of Bernie's message. He wants us to make our

representatives to good work for us as we demand. I think this is what the Hill-siders miss.

[Live and Learn]

51. Think we will start with health care for all. nt

[JTFrog]

53. Yes, we've already heard that racial issues "aren't important". n/t

[Armstead]

56. Everyone benefits from health care and suffers fromk a lack of it

That would include people of every group and race.

[Live and Learn]

59. More shit stirring, huh. Try this. MLK once had a dream. Goals start with dreams.

Amazing how people that don't want to pay for health care suddenly want to give reparations.

Why isn't Hillary campaigning on that? How far back are we going to go and who should pay them? I think I may have a claim in there somewhere.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

55. Assuming something can't be done means you won't even try.

[guillaumeb]

71. Highly recommended.

Vision is what is needed. A vision of what can be, not just what is possible right now.

Cautious incrementalism is no substitute for vision.

I will go with Sanders vision of a more economically just US because it is my vision also.

Dr. King had a vision. That vision is still not here, but it is closer.