The establishment endorses Hillary

[Cartoonist]

They're lining up to oppose meaningful change. They have no problem with war. Wall Street is one of their biggest advertisers. Honesty and integrity mean nothing to them.

Me? Not impressed.

[Agschmid]

1. This just isn't factual.

[merrily]

2. The Establishment for Hillary; the people they employ for Sanders.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280101045

And those people all come to Sanders' rallies to look for America.

&list=RDW773ZPJhcVw#t=20

They know it must be around here somewhere, just like my other glove!

[Thinkingabout]

3. Yes, establishment is correct this time. The meaniful change

Either has not been presented here in a manner which the majority does not buy into or it is not a viable offering.

[libdem4life]

11. Best just to speak for yourself. The majority here, IMO, does "buy into it".

At least that's been the drumbeat of complaints coming from "the others".

[Thinkingabout]

16. I am quiet aware of Hillary supporters being in the minority, as you say IMO.

I also have my opinion, what is this "Best just to speak for yourself"? Yes I have an opinion and I have the right to state my opinion.

[libdem4life]

18. Absolutely you do, as do we all. And to answer your question, an opinion is kind of the

way you speak for yourself. Past that, you are speaking for others. Your post intended to speak/misspeak for me. You were wrong.

Please, proceed...with your opinions that do not parse words, intents, actions, meanings and conclusions by attempting to reflect negatively on others.

[MrMickeysMom]

23. Or, not presented in a manner which can overcome never questioning "conventional wisdom"...

It's easy to recognize the kind of rhetoric that has been spoon fed to the masses. More Americans are not willing to buy it after a steady diet of what passes for American values, and wisdom. If you listen to the establishment's constant message, see if you can stick around for the commercials that follow those messages. Just who are we serving in this country, or for that matter, the world, and at what price? The establishment's message is portrayed using fallacious reasoning concealed in decorated language to deceive and to gain power. I'd say they have it in hand. Look how they control our "democracy", who answers to all these corporations that control our energy consumption, air, water, job market, cost of health and education.

This deception has been addressed as long as Aristotle pointed out a few things on political rhetoric and power. He helped separate philosophy from sophism, pointing out the techniques of rhetoric.

That same use of a deceptive argument are guaranteed to pull on the emotional strings of Americans... the same ones who become true believers, rather than use their own logic to question why we have to continue to be debt slaves and do less than what is necessary to sustain the next generations. I assume we here at DU have persons near and dear to us who are part of those very young and forthcoming generations.

Some Democrats would rather ignore a political revolutions, appearing smart rather than being smart. I wonder how long you'll accept this blind argument, since your name implies you would think further exactly where we are and what it's going to take to deliver a sustainable world?

[BlueMTexpat]

4. I am part of this "establishment"

you speak of.

- I am a lifelong Democrat.

- I support Democratic institutions and politicians.

- I do indeed support Hillary.

- I have worked all my professional life for positive change in society (>50 years in teaching, with international development experience, reparations/compensation experience) .

- I oppose war (was actually boots on the ground North Africa as a Peace Corps Volunteer during the early Vietnam Era) and spent much of my latter professional career in programs providing reparations/reconstruction/compensation to individuals directly affected by war. I met many of those victims personally and heard firsthand about their experiences.

- Wall Street is not one of my "advertisers" (whatever the H that means) but I make use of banks and financial institutions, as do most US citizens.

- Those who know me personally will not hesitate to vouch for my honesty and integrity.

Your statements do not impress me. But they certainly "dis" me and the multitudes like me who support Hillary.

Why do you even make statements such as in your OP when they are patently not true? Why must most OPs by Sanders supporters on DU constantly either "dis" me or my candidate instead of emphasizing Bernie's many strengths?

[smiley]

7. Because your candidate is not a progressive.

[BlueMTexpat]

10. That is simply untrue.

No matter how many times you say it or post it here.

Period.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. I'm sorry, you're a teacher

and that is your rebuttal? Oy vey!

Period.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I am sorry you felt the need to patronize another member of this board.

I'm sorry, you're a teacher
and that is your rebuttal? Oy vey!

Period.

-Le Taz Hot

I am sorry you felt the need to patronize another member of this board.

Period.


With all due respect,
DSB

[smiley]

29. Oh yes it is

no matter how bad you want it to not be.

[BlueMTexpat]

44. Buh-bye.

[smiley]

45. bye!

[Fawke Em]

42. Sorry, but she is not progressive, not matter how many times you

say it or post it here.

She's fairly progressive on social issues, but on foreign policy, she's a neo-con and on economic policy, she's a center-right Republican.

She's NOT a progressive.

[Lucinda]

12. Beautifully said

[BlueMTexpat]

15. Thanks, Lucinda.

We have three excellent candidates.

There is no reason to keep repeating GOPer slurs/lies about any one of them.

[Lucinda]

17. +1 It is a total waste of energy.

[BlueMTexpat]

22. In some ways, it's like

dealing with climate change deniers.

[Fawke Em]

43. Calling Hillary a neocon is not a GOP slur.

They'd like that.

Which is why I don't like her. She is a neocon on foreign policy.

[MrMickeysMom]

25. The OPs, or comments are not aimed to "dis"ing you, but pointing TO the issues...

... and those issues are backed by facts. I'm unsure which one of these is "patently no true".

It would appear that in response to the issues that Sanders has steadily delivered, we now hear the establishment Democrats (latest one being Jennifer Granholm) using as many logical fallacies as they can to demonize the person who has consistently presented the issues.

I'm not here to impress you, by the way. I don't point to anyone on DU, either who will vouch for my honesty and integrity. We both have the same human qualities, which is to say, if we stick to the issues and facts, we have a legitimate conversation.

No hasty generalizations, no false analogies, no ad hominems.... Just problem solving and models for a sustainable planet, fair play, ending of endless wars of aggression, acting like we are evolved, all told.

[NNadir]

5. The "herd mentality" of Senator Sanders supporters, many of whom are rather...

...vague about anything other than being members of the herd who despise Ms. Clinton - much as Nader supporters despised Al Gore - are increasingly pushing me into what you call, "the establishment."

I'm decidedly not impressed with the quality of the self-absorbed rhetoric here, most of which is negative.

Our country and our planet faces huge crises, and the idea that Senator Sanders is an impotent savior is not just naive, it's tiresome.

[99Forever]

9. Pot meet kettle.

The "she's inevitable" crowd pointing at others and saying "herd mentality."


Geebus Effen Cripes, you can't make this ridiculous bullshit up!

[libdem4life]

13. We do "negative, self-absorbed rhetoric"...which is exactly what this post represents.

[99Forever]

20. The level of cognitive dissonance is amazing.

[NNadir]

19. Well Kettle, I didn't say that I support Ms. Clinton yet. Basically, though, the insipid...

...rhetoric here, and even worse, on the right, leaves me in terror for the fate of my country.

Basically, any primary vote I have is irrelevant in any case - I live in New Jersey. Basically, for the first time in my long life, I am disinterested in politics and feel rather like I'm watching a train wreck.

I will say this. Senator Sanders is not God, and all the pictures of him on this website rather remind me of crucifixes or statues of the "blessed virgin." The brittleness of his supporters rather reminds me of the brittleness of bible bangers.

Let's leave the concept of the "God-like" Senator Sanders aside:

What in your imagination, will Senator Sanders do about, let's say, climate change? Throw another two or three trillion bucks at so called "renewable energy," even though the last two trillion bucks still ended up with 2015 coming in as the worst year ever observed for the increases in dangerous fossil fuel waste in the atmosphere? He lives in a State that for the first time in several decades is now dependent on burning dangerous fossil fuels for its electrical generation, with the waste now being dumped into the planetary atmosphere.

Should I be impressed?

How about the deindustrialization of the United States? Let's suppose he got one of his programs through a right wing congress. How are you going to stop companies that don't like his programs from moving to Singapore or Indonesia? Force Singapore to pay for a fence?

We have young people undertaking very difficult educations in the sciences who come out and can't get jobs, because all of our pharmaceutical jobs have been outsourced to China. What opportunities will Sanders create? Will bashing pharmaceutical companies and other "big business" produce a vast outpouring of jobs?

Now, I'm not saying that Ms. Clinton has any more practical solutions than Senator Sanders: Frankly I'm sure she doesn't have them. And I will probably end up voting in the General election despite my despair, if only to try to do what I can to prevent President Trump, even if the Democratic nominee is the rote sloganeering the old bastard on all the placards here, or the much maligned - some of it possibly justifiably so - former Secretary of State, Senator and "First lady."

But the fact is that as I see it, the country is screwed. The political rhetoric here consists of dumb pictures and snide remarks. They are superficial, devoid of intellectual integrity, and are the icing on a nettle filled cake that we will all have to eat as our country slides into the abyss of irrelevance. I am only glad that I will not be living all that much longer, although I still grieve for my two sons and the world they will live in. I am deeply ashamed of the world I'm leaving for them. (For the record, one of my sons, the one of voting age is in fact, a Sanders supporter, even if I am not.)

Other than these remarks, I wish you a pleasant Sunday.

[99Forever]

21. Go ahead and surrender to the greedy scum, it's what Clinton supporters do best.

[NNadir]

37. I guess that you predictably have nothing positive to say.

I have specified that I am not supporting anyone, least of all anyone associated with a herd of silly negative thinkers.

You have zero answers to any of my questions, which is to be expected. Go ahead and drive your country and the planet into the abyss. It's what every member of every political herd historically does.

[99Forever]

39. When you start the conversation with an insult...

... you get what you get. Why the fuck would any thinking human being bother to "answer questions" from anyone as clearly filled with preconceived claptrap and as arrogantly self-satisfied as you present yourself? The next time you decide you want "answers," try not asking them by leading with a fucking insult.

Herd that .

[libdem4life]

24. Political Rhetorical Pot Meet Anti-Political Rhetorical Kettle

"God-like"? Exaggerate much. My Gods have lots of hair and no bald spots.

[hedda_foil]

28. My gods have great hair, 20/20 vision and MUSCLES. Oh and they don't age!

[libdem4life]

31. Oh my, forgot the muscles...ripped, I think they call it? Some of them are stars

where the term "star" and connotation of celebrity came from...in the Universe.

[NNadir]

38. Think much?

I asked a number of questions and predictably, the little brittle boy who thinks that the Senator of Vermont is, in fact, a savior had no responses to them at all, but remarked on the most meaningless statement in my appeal.

You know, for supporters of an idealist who never outgrew his naivete, I hear very little idealism, just mindless criticism, but interestingly, instead, a description of "God."

QED.

[libdem4life]

40. Read much? You brought up "godlike" if you'll check. I just redefined mine.

#2 I'm a brittle Big Girl. And I know it hurts, but our Idealist used-to-be-Dark-Horse is now at par and ahead. Naive much?

And if you want to know things, it's appropriate to get acquainted with The Google and find out...not taunt supporters. There's that, too.

That's what I did. I was a Hillary and especially a Julian Castro supporter from the beginning, and she's still 2nd on my sig line. But, when he emerged, I liked the Bernie Story, past...present...and in the viable future. I did my homework.

But then, since you say you're not decided, I imagine you did the same drill with the Hilary Group, right?

Trying to get others on a message board to make up your political mind?

[MrMickeysMom]

26. I don't despise Mrs. Clinton...

Sanders, if you have listened, has said it is going to take a political revolution and that not he or one single person can be the sole deliverer of that.

So, what are you talking about? Why the red herring?

[NCTraveler]

6. I endorse her as well. Nt

[pandr32]

8. Proud to stand with HC

She is well-qualified, committed and tireless, and progressive.

[pinebox]

30. Progressive and well-qualified?

Hardly.

Well qualified at starting wars, weapons deals, coups in Central America and taking money from Wall Street.

Progressive? Like standing against gay marriage, supporting NAFTA, the TPP, KXL, voting on a border fence, saying children migrants should be sent home and supporting a non living wage?

Since when is THAT progressive? It's not nor ever has been.

[Jarqui]

27. I think the establishment endorses Hillary while gleefully rubbing their hands together

imagining a cabinet post, help in their re-election campaign, cashing in on lobbying, etc - something like that. Many of them strike me as pigs at the Washington trough looking for some more slop - not looking out for what is truly best for the people they represent.

To me, that's the core difference between the candidates: Bernie really cares and has all his life while Hillary pretends to care or is limited in how sincerely she cares while manipulateing the media to try to portray she cares as much as Bernie. Look over their careers if you doubt that. Actions speak louder than words.

I cannot comprehend and do not get the sensation that the establishment just "love" Hillary - much like I question Hillary's sincerity. Many are coldly just putting their money down on the best looking horse in the race to them at this time for their own self gain.

A number who had endorsed Hillary in 2008 switched Obama - jumped on a better horse.

I think Hillary represents the status quo - not lots will change in Washington on her watch. Washington will continue to be owned by Wall Street. No single payer. Any civil rights issues will be decided on how they affect her and their re-electability, income inequality will persist, more gridlock, a move to the neocon right on foreign affairs, etc Folks in Washington will resist change because they're the ones who need to be changed out.

Bernie might wind up with a similar result but at least he's going to try to change things as he has his entire life. Whether he does or not is up to us and whether we can get his political revolution results in the Senate and House.

Maybe I'm cynical but that's how I see it.

[Cartoonist]

33. That is probably true

"Many are coldly just putting their money down on the best looking horse in the race to them at this time for their own self gain."

I wish they would just let the people participate in democracy without trying to exert pressure and influence. By all means, offer opinions and facts, but let the public make up their own minds.

I should point out that by establishment, I meant newspapers. There have been several posts lately in which these relics of the past are sticking up for their corporate advertisers.

[Jarqui]

36. I'm certainly seeing bias in the liberal media and sensing it from the

newspaper endorsements.

For example, in the recent debate, Andrea Mitchell was in Hillary's camp. I swear that Ralph Nader got better media coverage in some of the years he ran than Bernie. Look at Ross Perot and compare the attention he got to Bernie. So something stinks pretty bad in the media when they ignore the guy running a decent second in the polls but will fuss over Jeb Bush. They've truly lost their mantle of journalism as the great arbitrator for democracy.

It's tough enough trying to win the presidency coming from the place Bernie did. But to also overcome the media? That's really hard. But thankfully, the media and the money moguls don't control all of the internet (yet ..)

[libdem4life]

32. Bernie's ascendancy and same-ole, same-old talking points are already causing coattails

Down ticket folk are entering the political process (DWS has an opponent, Go Canova) ...just because Bernie gave them hope and an example as to how to participate in and how to wage a Voting Revolution. That would be inspiring the massive voting dropouts, the young, a few traditional Democrats and the Liberal Left.

I've never missed an election, but I do have a collection of clothespins almost to match.

[seabeyond]

34. Sanders is the establishment. Ergo, Sanders too supports Clinton.

[Betty Karlson]

41. Not at all impressed either. eom