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Hillary Goes Full-On Rovian (Original Post) INdemo Jan 2016 OP
Why does she feel the need to lie about something so easily disproved. Autumn Jan 2016 #1
1. it attacks his strengths and 2. makes any response seem defensive MisterP Jan 2016 #5
conservatives don't understand how video and audio work. They think they won't get caught. roguevalley Jan 2016 #6
Classic Faux Bulsh** PatrynXX Jan 2016 #22
It's a way of life for her. 840high Jan 2016 #36
lol...Hillary lies about EVERYTHING. Frankly, I'm sick of her bullshit politics. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #40
You do understand that not supporting Hillary, much less running against her, is "negative", djean111 Jan 2016 #2
Hillary is toast... her desperate Rovian tactics against Bernie is her last gasp... InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #41
Just for you: Live and Learn Jan 2016 #53
And a touch of Lee Atwater Thirties Child Jan 2016 #3
Hillary makes Lee Atwater look like an amateur. Shame on her! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #42
Oh God no. Nothing like that. rusty quoin Jan 2016 #52
She really thinks the populace is stupid. nt Live and Learn Jan 2016 #4
Deja vu all over again. Sigh. libdem4life Jan 2016 #7
I would feel sorry for Hillary if she wasn't so vicious in her attacks on Bernie! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #43
Yeah, me too. She has coveted this for so long...and to have it snatched again libdem4life Jan 2016 #49
Yup, that was Hillary who said "shame on you Barrack Obama"...no shame on you Hillary! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #51
WOW. Great article: beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #8
Hillary hasn't a clue where Bernie's strengths are Proserpina Jan 2016 #19
Exactly.what you said. Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #37
She's tanking her campaign in the same way she tanked the 2008 one. Vinca Jan 2016 #9
Actually, Hillary's tanking worse than in 2008... she's a terrible campaigner... InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #44
Disgusting. Punkingal Jan 2016 #10
That grasping at straws has made the box pretty empty bkkyosemite Jan 2016 #11
Hillary already performed the Full Frontal 9-11 Giuliani, but got low scores. bvar22 Jan 2016 #12
Here's a clue for HRH....There's a Google machine that holds every video, speech, debate, rally, in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #13
I have a piece of video of a Hillary speech I have never put on the web. Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2016 #55
The Establishment is in full desperation mode. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #14
Not yet they're not Fumesucker Jan 2016 #15
Does no one understand posting so far Hortensis Jan 2016 #16
Not yet...please! Proserpina Jan 2016 #20
I can think of one PERFECT candidate for VP... and NO, Elizabeth would NOT be more effective as a Senator. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #47
You and I agree, but does Elizabeth? or Bernie, for that matter? Proserpina Jan 2016 #48
I don't know, but it would be the perfect ticket... I would walk over hot coals to vote for those two. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2016 #50
Keith Ellison Ned_Devine Jan 2016 #54
I think professional conservatives don't (or cannot) understand that the majority of Cal33 Jan 2016 #33
I have identified the enemy, which goes by many names Voice for Peace Jan 2016 #38
blows my fucking mind, everyday. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #17
Why the fuck can't she talk the damned ISSUES?!? SoapBox Jan 2016 #18
She has been in politics for nearly half a century - all of her adult life. This is the way Cal33 Jan 2016 #34
Bringing up facts is not negative PatrynXX Jan 2016 #21
they can try to make us dislike bernie... hopemountain Jan 2016 #23
And that's why we can never have anything nice Bad Bad JuJu Jan 2016 #31
... AzDar Jan 2016 #24
Kick and R BeanMusical Jan 2016 #25
Fuck her. That's all. nt elias49 Jan 2016 #26
You have showed the world how rude and gross you are. Shameful to say that to a Democratic riversedge Jan 2016 #28
Oh, I am reprimanded! elias49 Jan 2016 #29
More name-calling. Just like a school-yard bully. bye riversedge Jan 2016 #30
Haha! Bye. elias49 Jan 2016 #32
One of my comments from back in November... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #27
No Hillary. Jenny_92808 Jan 2016 #35
I guess she forgot her remarks about "shouting" about guns. Armstead Jan 2016 #39
Yup kenfrequed Jan 2016 #45
Ignore her Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #46

Autumn

(45,058 posts)
1. Why does she feel the need to lie about something so easily disproved.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jan 2016
It's no wonder people don't trust her.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
5. 1. it attacks his strengths and 2. makes any response seem defensive
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:50 PM
Jan 2016

it's what they do whenever they say "Sanders doesn't care about X people"--wonks know the record says otherwise, but the crybullies can smirk and say it's just denial that confirms their point: all you're allowed to do is kneel and beg forgiveness

the only way to win is to not play the game

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
6. conservatives don't understand how video and audio work. They think they won't get caught.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:52 PM
Jan 2016

I also think when you focus on attaining something to the detriment of reason and a clear view of things you do things that will surprise you later on.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
22. Classic Faux Bulsh**
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jan 2016

they lay out trap you fall in and I guess this proves Faux right (Hannity usually)

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
40. lol...Hillary lies about EVERYTHING. Frankly, I'm sick of her bullshit politics.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:41 PM
Jan 2016

Time for a change... time for Bernie!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
2. You do understand that not supporting Hillary, much less running against her, is "negative",
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jan 2016

don't you?

I think "Full-On Rovian" is a perfect description of her campaign, and sincerely hope it gets the same results that it got in 2008.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
41. Hillary is toast... her desperate Rovian tactics against Bernie is her last gasp...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:47 PM
Jan 2016

Say hello to President Sanders.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
43. I would feel sorry for Hillary if she wasn't so vicious in her attacks on Bernie!
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:51 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
49. Yeah, me too. She has coveted this for so long...and to have it snatched again
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 01:08 AM
Jan 2016

by some "Dark Horse" candidate has to smart. And I get why she's so vicious...it's like Custer's Last Stand. this is it. But I don't excuse it one bit. In fact, For Shame, Hillary. (That's what she said to someone in the past...I think it was Obama)

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
8. WOW. Great article:
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 04:57 PM
Jan 2016
The Rovian Strategy Explained

Hillary is using the classic Karl Rove technique of attacking an opponent on their biggest strengths.
A prime example of the “Rovian” strategy was the Bush campaign’s attacking the much decorated war hero John Kerry as a dishonorable vet whom other vets disdained. Bush himself avoided service in Vietnam with his cushy Air National Guard gig in the so-called “Champagne Squadron” for rich Texas kids, and even then he was AWOL for a year. Kerry was also a child of privilege but went to Vietnam anyway. That should have been a big difference between the two candidates, but by mounting that successful "swift boat" attack, Rove managed to take that whole subject of military service off the table.

Now Hillary is trying to take on the thing that most differentiates the two candidates: INTEGRITY.
If she can take the whole discussion of integrity, honesty and fair play off the table, then she will have greatly hurt Bernie.
Of course, this is not the first Rovian broadside that Hillary has delivered. It started almost immediately, right after the first debate, when Hillary attacked Bernie for, of all things, being RACIST. Bernie, who literally marched with MLK, who was arrested for protesting segregation, who supported and helped Jesse Jackson win Vermont in his Presidential bid, was now just a run-of-the-mill racist:

'There are some who say that it is an urban problem,' Clinton stated. 'Sometimes what they mean by that is: It's a black problem. But it's not. It's not black. It's not urban. It's a deep profound challenge to who we are.'


Ridiculous on its face. But that was not the only Rovian smear that the Clinton campaign was able to create out of whole cloth from the first debate:

“You know, I’ve been told to stop, and I quote, ‘shouting’ about gun violence. Well, first of all, I’m not shouting. It’s just [that] when women talk, some people think we’re shouting.”


Again — message clear: Bernie, who has stood for women’s rights, abortion rights, ERA, equal pay for decades, is really nothing more than an old-fashioned sexist who cannot stand or even understand strong women.
This week saw another Karl Rove masterpiece: Hilary is attacking Bernie on one of his core principles and one of his most passionate aims: single payer health care as a right. Hillary wants to keep allowing private insurance companies to make a profit on sick Americans. Bernie wants to make it an entitlement. And that basic philosophical difference is resonating with voters — so, taking another page out of Karl Rove’s playbook, Hillary is literally trying to scare voters about Bernie’s plan:

"His plan would take Medicare and Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program and the Affordable Care Act health care insurance and private employer health insurance and he would take that all together and send health insurance to the states, turning over your and my health insurance to governors," Clinton said. "We had enough of a fight to get to the Affordable Care Act. So I don’t want to rip it up and start over."


​This is really starting to get bizarre. But apparently the Clinton camp will adhere to the Rove strategy to the bitter end.
The latest barrage, namely attacking Bernie’s integrity, is the final straw. Bernie has always maintained that he has never run a negative ad, and that has been a hallmark of his campaign and a cornerstone of his reputation among the voters. To attack Bernie’s integrity and his honesty (“he is not levelling with the American people”) is to attack the very foundation of the Bernie Brand.
 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
19. Hillary hasn't a clue where Bernie's strengths are
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:25 PM
Jan 2016

and so, she couldn't attack them even if she tried.

Nor could she pull her sorry performance up to his level.

Bernie's strength is people like him, like how he behaves, like what he says, like what he's done....and she can't touch those.

Furthermore, people don't like Hillary, how she behaves, what she says, nor what she's done.....and since she's made no attempt to redesign any of it, she's not making any progress.

The more people learn about Bernie, the more they like him. As Sally said:

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
44. Actually, Hillary's tanking worse than in 2008... she's a terrible campaigner...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jan 2016

unlike our beloved Bernie!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
12. Hillary already performed the Full Frontal 9-11 Giuliani, but got low scores.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:25 PM
Jan 2016

So why not try the Naked Rove move?
Not a very high degree of difficulty, but moving for Republicans when executed well.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
13. Here's a clue for HRH....There's a Google machine that holds every video, speech, debate, rally,
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:26 PM
Jan 2016

TeeVee appearance and word YOU have ever spoken, given, gave or held. You can't BLATANTLY LIE anymore because Bernie's extraordinary Millenials who know technology like the back of their hand, are going to find you being the first person to go negative during the debates. It's out there. You can't LIE and get away with it anymore.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
55. I have a piece of video of a Hillary speech I have never put on the web.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 03:50 AM
Jan 2016

It was the summer of 1992 and she was campaigning for Bill. Spoke for over an hour to a private function in some rich lawyer's backyard. No notes whatsoever --I filmed it all standing right in front of her, and she sounded like a liberal.

Boy has she changed.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
16. Does no one understand posting so far
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jan 2016

understand that the progressive movement is far larger than one man? It's a Democratic movement. Bernie could drop dead tonight and it would continue because ALL of our Democratic candidates are committed to rebuilding our nation and advancing the welfare of all our people.

Imagining one can win a war by attacking one's own generals and trying to drag them down is incredibly foolish. The very first step is to IDENTIFY who are allies and who are enemies, and no one posting so far has even done that basic step yet.

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
20. Not yet...please!
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:28 PM
Jan 2016

This movement is too young to have anyone ready to succeed Bernie.

He at least needs a VP--preferably one who also walks the walk.

Unfortunately, people like Bernie are thin on the ground, inside or outside the party.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
47. I can think of one PERFECT candidate for VP... and NO, Elizabeth would NOT be more effective as a Senator.
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:03 PM
Jan 2016

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

 

Proserpina

(2,352 posts)
48. You and I agree, but does Elizabeth? or Bernie, for that matter?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 11:06 PM
Jan 2016

I don't think she wants the job. Imagine her as Senate Majority Leader, though!

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
50. I don't know, but it would be the perfect ticket... I would walk over hot coals to vote for those two.
Mon Jan 25, 2016, 01:57 AM
Jan 2016

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
33. I think professional conservatives don't (or cannot) understand that the majority of
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:39 PM
Jan 2016

people in America - and this includes many Republicans - are more than simply being
tired of the status quo. They cannot understand that we want change. We want nothing
less than REAL change!

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
38. I have identified the enemy, which goes by many names
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 09:56 PM
Jan 2016

It is fear, dishonesty, duplicity, arrogance.
Comes often in pretty packages, but has a distinct stench.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
18. Why the fuck can't she talk the damned ISSUES?!?
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:07 PM
Jan 2016

And she would wonder why her numbers are falling?

Of course sucking up to millionaires and billionaires, sabre rattling for war plus shape shifting on nearly every position AND going full throttle on dirty politics....

And people wonder why so many of us don't support her?

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
34. She has been in politics for nearly half a century - all of her adult life. This is the way
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:43 PM
Jan 2016

she has always been, and this is the way she will remain. She cannot change. She
doesn't know how to change, nor does she wish to.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
21. Bringing up facts is not negative
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:38 PM
Jan 2016

Lying is negative accusing without fact is negative. pointing out facts is not negative. kinda like the screaming. Hey alot of the folks screaming are guys. I didn't know they were female.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
23. they can try to make us dislike bernie...
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 07:50 PM
Jan 2016

but he is just too much for the people and speaks clearly and with sense about how we, the people, have the power to make the change - and we will do it together. all hillary can do is assert the negative: "nope". "no we can't." "it will never happen."

riversedge

(70,197 posts)
28. You have showed the world how rude and gross you are. Shameful to say that to a Democratic
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 08:23 PM
Jan 2016

candidate on a Democratic board. shame on you.

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
45. Yup
Sun Jan 24, 2016, 10:58 PM
Jan 2016

She has been having surrogates go negative for months now. She has finally given up having learned that the wonkenistas that make up the professional political pundit class on the cable networks are not delivering the message or that the message is being rejected.

So now she officially is going negative.

She embraced the politics of Rove last summer.

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