The Overlooked, Simple Reason Democrats Should Nominate Bernie Sanders

[whirlygigspin]

By Brian Foley, CounterPunch
26 January 16

"...Better to have a fighter than an appeaser. That way, liberal proposals with widespread benefits at least would have a chance of becoming policy rather than dying in utero. Bernie is a “uniter” who stands for Democratic Party ideals. In the general election, all Democrats will vote for him, and many liberals and independents who would otherwise vote third party or stay home will vote for him, too.

On the other hand, Hillary is a “divider.” Many Democrats and liberals and independents dislike her. So if she gets the nomination, they’ll vote third party or stay home. That’s it. The choice is between a candidate who can get the support of all Democrats and many independents versus a candidate who can get only a fraction of that support..."


http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/34836-the-overlooked-simple-reason-democrats-should-nominate-bernie-sanders

[merrily]

1. Any reason anyone has to vote for Senator Sanders is fine with me!

[peacebird]

2. Very true.

[daleanime]

3. Look around....

can we really just leave things as they are?

[VulgarPoet]

4. Because better to be crushed fighting the machine than to complacently jump into it.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels…upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" -- Mario Savio

[CharlotteVale]

5. K&R

[FlatBaroque]

6. Been saying this since Day One: She is unelectable to national office.

If there was no Obama we would have had 8 years of rMoney.

[zeemike]

18. A lot of us here have been saying it too

She has high negative ratings and especially among independents.
Nominated she could lose to a Republican. And the odds are greater if she has some email problems from the FBI.

[FlatBaroque]

22. Your post triggered a thought

Could it be that Obama is meeting with Bernie today because there is something about to happen with the FBI investigation?

[zeemike]

24. I never thought of that.

But it does make you wonder.

But it just could be that he wanted to give him the talk...it's Hillary's turn so back off.

[hifiguy]

57. She is the biggest turnoff possible to the left/liberal/progressive base

and a great motivation for the Repigs' cave-orc base to come out and vote against her, where she's probably worth a million votes for the Repigs nationally. She will get beaten like a goddam gong in the general unless it's against Cruz.

[farleftlib]

7. As obvious as can be

This is the simple truth of the matter laid out in common sense terms. K & R.

[Awknid]

8. K & R

[JonLeibowitz]

10. Personal attacks have no place on DU. n/t

[SunSeeker]

30. Bookmarking this thread for the irony alone. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

35. I make personal attacks on DU members?

[SunSeeker]

37. Please provide a link to where you say that when DU Hillary supporters are being called names. nt

[asuhornets]

66. Really??

Unbelievable!!!

[brooklynite]

11. Better to have a candidate who can win and get a chance to fight...

[farleftlib]

12. Absolutely spot on

You've described Bernie to a T.

[brooklynite]

14. None of the Democratic candidates I talk to (progressive to centrist) agree with you.

Beyond my own data analysis (previous performance, polling, fund raising potential, voter demographics), I tend to give credence to the analysis of people who actually have to win elections.

[daleanime]

15. Not the voters?

[brooklynite]

16. The problem with giving credence to voters is that, when they decide it's too late.

George McGovern (1 State)
Jimmy Carter (6 States)
Walter Mondale (1 State)
Michael Dukakis (10 States)

I worked on the campaigns of everyone but McGovern. I've learned not to confuse my hopes and beliefs with reality.

[zeemike]

19. Jimmy Carter won the first time.

And he was the Sanders of his day...an outsider...and people were looking for change just as they are now.
And going with the establishment Humphrey in 68 gave us Nixon.

But conventional wisdom always fails us...and if we make the same mistakes this time it will fail us again.

[Ed Suspicious]

20. Sometimes you have to believe in people and take a leap.

[brooklynite]

38. I can survive a Republican Administration...can you?

[Ed Suspicious]

42. You ask me this all the time. It's tiresome. It has only strengthened my resolve. Why do you

continue to flaunt your wealth, connections, and influence while reminding me that because of my comparative poverty I'm in no position to vote for my chosen candidate? Do you have any idea how infuriatingly condescending that is? I am poor. I will continue to be poor under centrist dems or republican administrations. I am incredibly qualified to go big. I am perfectly positioned to play the long game if I need to.

[brooklynite]

44. So, by your logic, I should support Sanders in the expectation he'll lose to the Republicans...

Actually, my economic status is only part of the equation. Yes, I'll do well under a Republican President, and yet I'm supporting a Democrat who opposed the Bush Tax Cuts and will continue to support progressive taxation.

But additionally, I have a great retirement plan and savings, so I don't need to worry if the Republicans privatize Social Security.

I have guaranteed health coverage so I don't need to worry if the Republicans finally repeal ACA.

I don't have kids, so I don't need to worry about the cost of higher education.

My wife is past child-bearing years so I don't need to worry about abortion rights.

I'm white, so I don't have to worry about being stopped by the police.

I'm heterosexual, so I don't need to worry about employment or commercial discrimination.

And yet I worry about all those things, so I'm going to vote for a mainstream Democrat to protect our gains under President Obama.

And I'll repeat my question. Setting aside your economic situation, what are you willing to risk?

[Ed Suspicious]

45. My logic is vote for Bernie Sanders. He's the only one willing to tell me the truth. He's the only

one willing to fight for me first. End of story.

And if you fight for him (because I suspect you will be one of the last people who will), he will win and we will all win.

[brooklynite]

46. I've already said that if he's nominated, I'll work like hell to get him elected...

...and I've also said that I'd switch from Clinton to him if someone could make a compelling argument about how he can win (like I switched from Clinton to Obama in 2008).

But don't let those facts get in the way of your stereotypes.

[cascadiance]

48. It would seem that the "facts" of current polls disagree with your "facts"...

... since most of them now show that Bernie Sanders would have a better shot at beating Republicans than Hillary Clinton. Why do YOU want to support a candidate that would more likely lose and give us a Republican president?

[hifiguy]

58. The difference between HRH's foreign/economic policies

and those of the Republicans is close to zero. Wall Street has made it perfectly clear that she is their Plan B and put its money behind her.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. LOL!!!

Voters? I don't have a column on my spreadsheet for that.

[John Poet]

59. Guess you better find another one, then.

[WillyT]

13. K & R !!!

[whirlygigspin]

53. K&R

n/t

[TIME TO PANIC]

17. If we nominate Hillary, democrats are toast this November.

Hillary may or may not win the presidency, but the republicans will certainly crush us down ticket.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. Hillary is basically a liability

I'm sad to say but there's too much going on with her.

[TIME TO PANIC]

28. Yes, every republican hates her, and she's turned her back on progressives. n/t

[hifiguy]

60. All she really has left is the Dem-leaners who pay little attention

to politics and her very vocal fanclub who seem to care not a mouse turd that policy-wise she's mostly Zombie Thatcher - War Forever Everywhere and dedicated to the interests of the Billionaire Class. And a fanclub is not a political base.

[MisterP]

32. they're okay with losing the general if they can keep control over the party mechanism

they already have the pre-blame talking points ready

for some reason that appeals to few people

[TIME TO PANIC]

33. No doubt about it. n/t

[uponit7771]

21. Sanders wont fight for everything, just his pet left tenants not others... Hillary isn't promising

... to unicorns or revolution, she's going to be more pragmatic, that's ok as long as we know what to expect

[Ed Suspicious]

47. Define his "pet left tenants."

[cascadiance]

49. You're right, he won't fight for everything that Hillary will, but will fight for things she won't..

Here are battle she will fight that Sanders will fight on the other side for. She's got big campaign backers to keep happy. Sanders is happy to keep his voters happy the way a real democratic politician should!

1) Keeping us from putting Glass Stiegel back in pla to be consistent with her husband signing a bill to end it.
2) Working to put in place single payer health care since it would "hurt" her poor buddies the insurance companies. She keeps trying to lie about Sanders wanting to tear us down the existing system with NO system ijn place before we transition to single payer that he wants to replace it with. That is a DAMN LIE and she and Chelsea should both know that!*
3) Will work hard against speculator's tax that Sanders wants to use to finance free post graduate education so as not to hurt her Wall Street buddies. She certainly feels it needs to be financed in a different way.
4) She wants to continue to have guest worker (indentured servant) style work programs such as H-1B and H-2b in place to keep her big company bosses happy that want to use it to keep in place cheap labor. She'll likely do an "Obama" and reverse her "standing against TPP" and have a few minor changes in it to have her be for it, much like Obama "renegotiated NAFTA" before putting working with his Republican supporters to put in place more free trade crap to screw the American workers.
5) Probably will not put in place any kind of legislation which would reverse the Telecomm Act that her husband signed in to law that help us have a corporatized media marketplace that has screwed us over in having an educated public with a legitimate and accessable "free press".

I could go on and on...

His "pet left tenants" are the American PEOPLE (All NINETY NINE PERCENT of us!) and not the small "miniscule" corporatist cabal that she and her husband have been playing footsie with since the DLC was started with them and the Koch Brothers.

[SoapBox]

23. K & R!

[Old Crow]

25. My thinking on this topic.

It's simple. Most Americans casting votes in presidential elections are low-information voters. The majority of them have little knowledge of the issues and where the candidates stand, aside from what might be summarized in a 10-second soundbite.

So how are they deciding, if factual information plays a minor role? They rely on their bullshit detectors: they vote for the person who seems forthright, who doesn't appear to be hiding anything. In the pundits' language, they vote for authenticity.

Donald Trump may be a neo-fascist disaster with absurd policy positions ("I'll build a wall--and the Mexicans will pay for it&quot . But time again, when his supporters are asked why they support him, they say it's because he "tells it like it is."

If you put Hillary Clinton up against Donald Trump, millions of low-information voters are going to vote for "authenticity" over "triangulation."

Hillary Clinton just does not come across as open, forthright, and honest.

The only chance against Trump's shoot-from-the-hip bombast is Bernie Sanders. There has not been another American politician who can speak so plainly, and connect with voters so directly, in my lifetime.

[Populist_Prole]

27. I think you called it pretty good

I'd like to add an opinion/observation.

"The only chance against Trump's shoot-from-the-hip bombast is Bernie Sanders. There has not been another American politician who can speak so plainly, and connect with voters so directly, in my lifetime"

Core truth. What gets me is the squishy definition of "unelectable" the anti-Sanders crowd throws around as they posit the notion of an "unelectable" Bernie Sanders losing in a run against Trump. The obvious irony in how they studiously ignore Trump. Trump is the absolute archetype of unelectable, arguably so by analysis across the political spectrum.

[sorechasm]

50. Well said Old Crow: authenticity beats cunning but sincerity beats all.

Most American's judge strangers on their gut impression (Stephen Colbert's barometer).Like you said, Trump scores high on the belly meter because he seems authentic.

Trump may sound authentic (because he authentically doesn't give a s**t about anyone but himself), but his lies belie his insincerity. Those who believe that he 'tells it like it is' will be blown away when they see a Trump vs. Bernie debate. Trump will appear to be the cartoon character that the rest of us see by comparison because Bernie will twist Trump on his lies. (Much like PBO did.)

Bernie is both authentic and sincere. Trump will get trumped.

[hifiguy]

61. She can't come across that way

because she never has been and never will be. She's a pure opportunist in the same general mold as Richard Nixon.

[valerief]

29. Right, because if you don't ask, you'll never get what you want. nt

[Orsino]

34. The distinction between "fighter" and "divider" isn't clear...

...but your post echoes some of my feelings.

[Ferd Berfel]

36. Great Point - Obama turned out to be an Appeaser

didn't get shit done when he had the votes and political capital
he was willing to to destroy Social Security
Pulled the plug on single payer and gave us the Republican Health care plan
and has pushed for the end of US sovereignty and the American middle-class with T P P !

And Hillary wants to continue this? AYFKM?

[brooklynite]

39. I'm sure someone thought this graphic was witty...

[Ferd Berfel]

41. I about pee'd my pants.

[sammythecat]

40. I'm positive a smallish percentage of Republicans

would wind up voting for Bernie, especially given the crap options of their own party. Some Republicans are struggling and realize getting rich and golfing with Rush Limbaugh ain't gonna happen. All Republicans, however, will vote for anyone or anything before Hillary no matter what their circumstances.

Hillary could very well lose the GE. Bernie would win big.

[Ferd Berfel]

43. Agree, Most of Vermont is Rural and republican. And Bernie has been winning

for 33 years WITH republican support.
The same thing will happen in the GE as republicans and Independents get to know him

[hifiguy]

62. She turns off the liberal base completely

and powerfully motivates the Repig cave orcs to vote against her.

She has zero appeal to the disaffected and independents with her constant "No We Can't" change the dysfunctional status quo. That is a recipe for disaster in the general.

[Bernblu]

51. This is spot on.

The election of Hillary will probably end the party.

[eridani]

52. Sanders is mobilizing the 63%. Clinton is not n/t

[whirlygigspin]

54. This is true

Has anyone refuted this basic idea?

I have not seen it done.

[Nanjeanne]

55. If she gets the Nomination - she may squeak it out with her Billionaire supporters but

she's going to bombarded by every scandal as far back as the Republicans can go and every new one they can find. Her billions will be much needed.

My fear is that even if she does get elected - the young will stay at home, the disillusioned will stay at home, the people in securely blue or red states will stay at home -- and any hopes of picking up seats in either the House or Senate are Gone With The Wind!

[uponit7771]

56. Clinton polls better with the poor, blacks, Hispanics, women, gays and small puppies...

... even after Sanders 7 month introduction

[hifiguy]

63. Yet Bernie does better against tRump and Cruz than she does.

Independents do NOT like HRH. For some strange, unfathomable reason they think she's untrustworthy. I wonder why that is?

[uponit7771]

64. Cause there wasn't millions of tax payer dollars spent to lower his poll numbers, that's a fact

... not in dispute.

Sanders can NOT win with mostly well of whites in north blue states, ...his Obama coalition numbers will end up like Kerrys

[hifiguy]

65. Believe whatever you have to.

[uponit7771]

67. I like facts and reality... that's better than what I believe IMHO