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Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:41 PM

This is not about unicorns, this is about people's lives

Every single day people die in this country because they can't afford health care. These people are not unicorns, they are real human beings who have been failed by a health insurance system that has put corporate profits above people's lives.

Many other nations have been able to provide healthcare to all of their citizens but when Bernie proposes a system that has already been successful in other parts of the world he is accused of promising unicorns.

Has anyone stopped to think how disgusting it is to tell people who are sick and dying but can not afford health insurance that fighting to get a system that works for them is the equivalent of fighting for unicorns?

We can certainly debate the details of Bernie's plan and we might be able to debate the details of Hillary's plan if she would provide us those details.

One thing that should not be up for debate however is the fact that we don't have a problem with unicorns dying from lack of health care, we have a problem with real human beings dying from lack of health care.

I would expect Teabaggers to dismiss calls to ensure that we have a health care system that covers everyone as a wish for unicorns, but I am saddened to see Democrats talking like Teabaggers and dismissing a program like single payer that has already been successful in other parts of the world.

Let me be very clear; anyone who thinks a tried and true system like single payer should be dismissed as unicorns need to be resisted every bit as much as the Teabaggers need to be resisted.

I have never seen a unicorn but I have seen too many people who have needed health care but could not afford it. It is time to stop dismissing the fight for these people as a fight for unicorns.

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Reply This is not about unicorns, this is about people's lives (Original post)
Bjorn Against Jan 2016 OP
VulgarPoet Jan 2016 #1
daleanime Jan 2016 #2
ypsfonos Jan 2016 #3
onehandle Jan 2016 #4
Hiraeth Jan 2016 #7
onehandle Jan 2016 #10
Hiraeth Jan 2016 #14
Ned_Devine Jan 2016 #33
AlbertCat Jan 2016 #45
TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #35
Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #54
senz Jan 2016 #16
frylock Jan 2016 #20
John Poet Jan 2016 #30
AlbertCat Jan 2016 #43
daleanime Jan 2016 #47
Phlem Jan 2016 #49
Bjornsdotter Jan 2016 #5
litlbilly Jan 2016 #6
senz Jan 2016 #17
VulgarPoet Jan 2016 #18
jfern Jan 2016 #8
beam me up scottie Jan 2016 #9
Skwmom Jan 2016 #11
Dont call me Shirley Jan 2016 #12
DanTex Jan 2016 #13
Fumesucker Jan 2016 #15
frylock Jan 2016 #22
senz Jan 2016 #21
JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #26
DanTex Jan 2016 #27
JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #28
DanTex Jan 2016 #29
JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #31
DanTex Jan 2016 #32
JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #34
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #42
DanTex Jan 2016 #44
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #51
Phlem Jan 2016 #50
passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #53
AlbertCat Jan 2016 #46
tecelote Jan 2016 #48
jonestonesusa Jan 2016 #58
mmonk Jan 2016 #19
Bjorn Against Jan 2016 #23
HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #24
RobertEarl Jan 2016 #25
TIME TO PANIC Jan 2016 #36
elmac Jan 2016 #37
jillan Jan 2016 #38
Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #39
jillan Jan 2016 #41
Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #40
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #52
Doctor_J Jan 2016 #59
stillwaiting Jan 2016 #55
CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #56
jonestonesusa Jan 2016 #57

Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:44 PM

1. Wonder how many eyerolls this will catch.

K/R from me, though. It's time to change things.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:46 PM

2. Massive K&R.....

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:48 PM

3. All together now... let's get the ball rolling!

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:49 PM

4. A unicorn gave us George W. Bush. nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:55 PM

7. ironically, your sigline gun is pointing at your Hillary avatar.

heehee

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:58 PM

10. Clever. It's that cleverness that doomed the 'Not Hillary' Party on day one. nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:08 PM

14. whatever

yawn

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Response to onehandle (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:21 PM

33. That doesn't even make sense.

 

Here's a song for you

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Response to onehandle (Reply #10)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:09 PM

45. doomed the 'Not Hillary' Party on day one.

 

She lost the last primary.

She can lose this one too.

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:24 PM

35. +1

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Response to Hiraeth (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:10 AM

54. It's just firing blanks.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:11 PM

16. Bernie is not running 3rd party.

 

You can figure that out.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:19 PM

20. The Supreme Court is a unicorn?

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:12 PM

30. That's a horrible slander on Unicorns!

 

I think you should apologize.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:07 PM

43. A unicorn gave us George W. Bush.

 

Are you saying the Supreme Court is a unicorn???

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:24 PM

47. Why won't people stop with this....stuff about unicorns?

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Response to onehandle (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:39 PM

49. Dude. Wow.



seriously?!?

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:49 PM

5. I've seen people at the pharmacy

...walk away without their meds because they couldn't afford them. It's not right....

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Response to Bjornsdotter (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:52 PM

6. We actually do have it here. It's called Medicare, we just have to offer it to everyone as a right.

 

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Response to Bjornsdotter (Reply #5)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:13 PM

17. Oh, they just want pink unicorns.

 

Silly things. They need to get realistic.

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Response to senz (Reply #17)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:15 PM

18. Pink unicorns that shit free pizza.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:57 PM

8. True, 32 million people, or 10% of the population, doesn't have health insurance

And many others have very expensive health insurance and high deductables. Often they have to spend $20k or more to get any actual coverage.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:57 PM

9. Righteous.


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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 08:59 PM

11. It is fiscally right and morally right. What should be called a no-brainer. n/t

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:05 PM

12. We ARE a democratic socialist nation. We have achieved nationalized healthcare for the disabled and

elderly. We can do it for all Americans.

I did almost died from no health insurance and no ability to pay, so I take a HUGE offense to so-called LIBERALS saying nationalized healthcare is a fantasy!!!!!!!! Those same people are allowing their filthy rich buddies to poison my air my water my food my community and then they say "you have to pay for your treatment". Just like Prick Snyder poisoning people with lead. Let the power elite all rot in their own libertarian hell, but stop spreading your libertarian Ayn Rand hell into our world.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:06 PM

13. I think you misunderstand. The unicorn is a metaphor.

Yes, this is about people's lives. People who can't afford to have a GOP presidency, which becomes much more likely the instant that Bernie is nominated.

It's not a coincidence that Bernie supporters are wealthier on average than Hillary's. Bernie fans are people who can shrug off a GOP presidency. Ironically, it's people who are doing pretty well economically who tend to think that it can't possibly get any worse, so just throw caution to the wind. Gamble it all on a unicorn. Being able to entertain the Bernie fantasy is a luxury that a lot of people don't have.

Single payer isn't coming. What could be coming, is improvements to ACA, some liberal supreme court justices, and general continuation of the progress that Obama has made. The other thing that could be coming is President Cruz/Trump with big majorities on both chambers, in the supreme court, and in state legislatures.

That's the choice. Pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:11 PM

15. It would have been simpler to type "die quickly"

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:20 PM

22. +1

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:20 PM

21. I'll take the hope-and-change thingy over the fear thingy.

 

Bernie's "fantasy" is reality in most of the world's advanced democracies. It is eminently doable.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:46 PM

26. Uhm, I am going to need a source on that

It's not a coincidence that Bernie supporters are wealthier on average than Hillary's
.

Otherwise I am going to call bullshit. I'll take the most recent national polls:

In the IBD/TIPP: Not much difference. http://www.investors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IBDTIPPpoll-LateJan.pdf

In the FOX News poll he does worse in $50k+ than Clinton, but within the MOE: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2016/01/25/fox-news-poll-clinton-drops-below-50-as-her-lead-over-sanders-shrinks/

In the CNN/ORC poll he does 1 pt. worse with $50k+ than <$50k, while Clinton does 9% better. http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/25/politics/democrats-poll-full-results-cnn-orc/

What's your source?

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:03 PM

27. For example, page 67 of this pdf.

http://www.investors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IBDTIPPpoll-LateJan.pdf

Too lazy to do a screenshot and upload.
The columns are <30, 30-50, 50-75, 75+

HC 49% 55% 45% 47%
BS 38% 38% 48% 37%

Basically consistent with the rest of the polling I've seen.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #27)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:08 PM

28. Yes, I linked that IBD/TIPP poll in my first post.

It is hardly conclusive, and I listed 2 other polls where the exact opposite effect is observed.

Based on the others I could conclude the precise opposite of what you claim.

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #28)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:09 PM

29. The one I linked is consistent with all the others I've seen. As you can see,

the lower income brackets go for HRC by more than the larger ones.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #29)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:15 PM

31. Did you read the polls I first linked you to?

What about these? Are you going to address what I actually put in my posts?

For the Marist poll just released, the data is inconclusive, 1/3 has Sanders dropping more, 2/3 have Clinton dropping more. Not strong evidence either way.

Sanders does much better in <$50k than >$50k; reverse for Clinton http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/NHpolls/NH160117/NBC%20News_WSJ_Marist%20Poll%20New%20Hampshire%20Tables%20of%20Likely%20Democratic%20Primary%20Voters_January%2028%202016.pdf#page=1

Here's one for your side of the argument. Sanders holds steady, while Clinton indeed drops by 6. http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/IApolls/IA160124/NBC%20News_WSJ_Marist%20Poll%20Iowa%20Tables%20of%20Likely%20Democratic%20Caucus-Goers_January%202016.pdf#page=1

Another one with a slight (but within MOE) difference to your advantage; but since it is South Carolina I bet it is reflective of the race distortion: http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/SCpolls/SC160117/NBC%20News_WSJ_Marist%20Poll%20South%20Carolina%20Tables%20of%20Likely%20Democratic%20Primary%20Voters_January%202016.pdf#page=1

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Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:18 PM

32. I've seen a lot of polls, and they're generally consistent with the first one I googled up,

which shows, yet again, that Bernie's supporters are wealthier.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #32)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:21 PM

34. I literally picked the 3 most recent national polls which had that data

and two contradicted what you said.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:05 PM

42. I'd love to see evidence that Sander's supporters are wealthier than Hillary's

Because looking at donations, it looks like Hillary gets all the big donations (from the wealthier crowd) and Sanders gets mostly small donations from people like me who not even middle class any more. He has a lot more contributors, yet they are mostly small donations.

http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/35-40/Bernie-Sanders-vs-Hillary-Clinton
83% of her donations come from large individual contributions.
17% come from small individual contributions.

23% of Bernie's donations come from large individual donations and
77% come from small individual donations.

If his supporters were wealthier, wouldn't he be getting more large donations?

So a link to this evidence would be appreciated. Thanks..

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Response to DanTex (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:06 AM

51. You are going with a poll...an investors poll?

M kay!

Please feel free to post any other sources you come across, as I was unable to find any on google.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #42)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:44 PM

50. hint: it's from investors.com so there's no bias, you know

like the shit I read in the economist.

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Response to Phlem (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:07 AM

53. Yeah, I caught that.

But it's supposedly a poll? And the numbers are wrong and percentages don't make any sense to me. I have no idea what they are supposed to represent.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:11 PM

46. which becomes much more likely the instant that Bernie is nominated.

 

How so? Explain.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:37 PM

48. A GOP Presidency is more likely if Hillary is nominated in the primaries.

Show me anywhere that has Hillary ahead against a GOP candidate vs. Bernie.

Bernie is our best hope.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 08:56 AM

58. I think we get that unicorns are a metaphor.

And you probably get that it's a derisive, condescending metaphor, being deployed against an energetic and motivated wing of the party you claim to support. If it's a policy debate, talk about policy. If it's meant as an insult to fellow Dems, at least have the guts to own your own insults.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:17 PM

19. Thanks. I'm currently working on a book and your description about "unicorns" just gave me an idea

on an adjustment in the title. Keep on keeping on.


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Response to mmonk (Reply #19)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:22 PM

23. Nice. Make sure to let us know when you finish the book, I would like to read it.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:24 PM

24. +1mol

 

For those unfamiliar, that's a lot.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 09:31 PM

25. Real stuff, this

 

It is simply incredible that there are some who call themselves Democrats and who tell me, my brothers and sisters, that we have no right to the same health care as those who have money.

Thank God we have Bernie campaigning for us and professing that we should all be equally treated.

That we have come this far and do not yet have equality of health care is a real travesty.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:29 PM

36. K & R !

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:47 PM

37. Obamacare was a good effort but at the end of the day

 

its a big win for insurance companies (stocks more then doubled) that leaves about 29 million Americans without heath care. It is still better then what we had but we can do much better if we give corporatist dems and the fascists the boot.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:50 PM

38. Thank you! We need a fighter in the whitehouse and not someone who is going to tell us once again

that this is the best they could do.

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Response to jillan (Reply #38)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:55 PM

39. It's time to end the "finger in the dike" approach

and start to actually fix the damn dike!

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:00 PM

41. And have a leader that will fight to get that damn dike fixed.

I love Obama but dangit if he didn't just hand over the idea of the ACA to Congress and told them to do it.
What was that? It really was no wonder that the teabaggers had full control of the messaging that summer. The messaging from our side was absent - before, during and after.
Looking back - ugh!!

That said, he has been one of the best Presidents and I am really going to miss him and his family in the White House.

But the ACA was only the beginning. The very beginning.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:59 PM

40. Hillary's people will be sorry they ever mentioned unicorns!

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:07 AM

52. Most of those who claim it's all unicorns like their life the way it is.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 01:27 PM

59. And don't care about anyone else's

 

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 07:47 AM

55. And, if other countries can find a way to have the policies that Bernie advocates for, then

SO CAN WE.

We are still the richest nation in the world per capita.

This IS a life and death matter. People need to wake up to that fact, and then fight for what's right.

Stop rolling over for the Billionaires that demand and enforce the current system we live under. They impose a system that offers much less security and potential happiness than other less wealthy countries are able to provide for their citizens.

Stop living in a state of learned helplessness. They have trained so many of us so well, but it seems their training is losing its effect on more and more of us with each passing day. May this trend continue until the obvious comes to pass.



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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 07:56 AM

56. Funny how we're accused by the Clinton crowd of believing

in unicorns....yet they believe that the largesse Wall Street showers on her doesn't insure her total alignment with the 1% in every way.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2016, 08:43 AM

57. Absolutely on point.

Great OP, a reminder of the consequences of a broken system and the opportunity in front of us to build added support for single payer. Let's make it happen!

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