2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo about that third recent attack on Bernie...the League of Conservation Voters
telling his campaign they can't use the LCV logo in their mailers. It looks to me like it was an honest mistake, as the mailer did not say they were endorsing him (they are endorsing Hillary).
The League of Conservation Voters, however, has contacted Sanderss staff, objecting to their logo being used on another mailer, shared with Newsweek, which portrays the senator as an environmental champion. The pamphlet, which is being sent out in Iowa, notes that Sanders has a lifetime score of 95 percent from the League of Conservation Voters and displays the groups logo beside it.
http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806
His campaign was trying to show they support him, (even if they don't endorse him in this race). Although they should not have included their logo, it's fair to show that they do support his policies.
The Hillary camp has been on a roll lately, digging for dirt, and they aren't coming up with anything but dust. And this newsweek story is a hit piece on Sanders, but they accidentally told the truth (the whole story instead of just the part they wanted to use) a few times in it...more than most of the recent hit pieces have done.
All the recent hit pieces being floated here are only telling the part of the story that makes it look deliberate and dishonest, when in fact by not telling the full story, the hit pieces are dishonest.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Always a conspiracy, always a victim.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But Sanders isn't one of them.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)His campaign did this and the LCV have the right to correct him. Same with the AARP.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)And neither will Sanders. He does stand up to his mistakes and his campaigns mistakes.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Come on, you can tell the truth.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)is acting like a petulant child? Got it!
I'm still not clear on how he used it this time, as I haven't seen the mailier in question and now that Fawk em posted about them taking down the image of their logo next to Bernie's rating on their site, I can't even see that.
I just prefer to see a whole story, and attacks usually don't include the whole story, as in the last three cases of smearing Bernie today.
We don't know who is driving the story and we don't know the whole story on any of them, but boy are the Hillary supporters on fire to push them as evidence of Bernie's dishonesty.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)There were three stories because his campaign did these acts.
Sorry if it offends you he got called on it but we are going to call him out on it.
questionseverything
(9,652 posts)someone is finally standing up for the logos!!!!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,186 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sorry but sanders gets what he deserves with this.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I havenl;t seen the AARP thing so can';t comment on that.
As for the League mailer -- the words about his voting record were correct andhonest. Somebody in their graphics staff made a stupid mistake in not understanding the concept of "fair use".....Meh
MADem
(135,425 posts)Everything is framed as an "attack." Even in this case, where it's plain that his staff took something that didn't belong to them--gee, where have we seen that happen before?
It gets a bit hyperbolic after awhile.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)Logos? Seriously? Because that's all you got.
Not a damn thing in the league of taking massive fees from banks that crashed the economy, or supporting the invasion of a country on false pretenses that killed hundreds of thousands of people.
Logos? Sheesh.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)... question Sanders.
I feel so ashamed.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)President Sanders: "I have no idea how we wound up declaring war on Russia. It must have been one of my low-level staffers who started it. Or the MSM. Or Hillary. Or the DNC, Or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz - you know, any one of those many people who are part of the vast conspiracy against me. I'm just a victim of persecution here."
MADem
(135,425 posts)Don't blame Clinton because his staff does stupid things.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)then email it, unencrypted, to a private and unsecure server.
That's what Hillary's staff is accused of.
That's not only stupid, it's probably criminal.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The post it from The Hill but the story says it is from fox.
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)Then I realized I had accidentally clicked on Breitbart.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... is trying to point the finger at what someone else allegedly did or didn't do, you've already lost the argument.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)eom
MADem
(135,425 posts)their tactics meld well with the high-minded attitude he attempts to convey.
There's cognitive dissonance there--and it is noticeable.
It's not about Hillary, or her supporters. It's a problem with his infrastructure.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... please enlighten us.
What part of BS's campaign using the logos of organizations that HAVE NOT endorsed him were not deliberate and dishonest?
Tell us the "full story" about how one uses unauthorized logos "accidentally" and "honestly'?
TIA!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Suppose the mailing had simply said Sanders has a 99 percent (or whatever it was) voting record with them, without the logo.
Would this kerfuffle even be a kerfuffel?
Somebody screwed up because they did not understand fair use rules about logos. Meh
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Sounds like a lower-level messup to me. How serious I consider it would depend on how often it happened, was it corrected, have similar things happened in other campaigns, and how often.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I can totally understand how it happened. It's easy to look for something to give some visual "punch" to an article or headline.
"Gee this says Bernie had a 99 percent voting record from them. Let's add their logo to give it some impact."
A dumb mistake, and I suspect it happens in campaigns quite often.
I'm going to assume that, and it was not some high level decision to knowingly deceive people. IF it was, it was very un-Bernie and the high levelperson should be canned.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)Why should anyone have to "suppose" that what WAS done wasn't done?
"Suppose the mailing had simply said Sanders has a 99 percent (or whatever it was) voting record with them, without the logo."
But that's not what happened, is it?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)It was an honest statement. If it had been a lie, that would be a different matter. But it was the truth. The logo was somebody's idea of reinforcing it visually. How horrible. A new low in politics.
In terms of deceptiveness....well, I'd put some of the blatant misrepresentations of Sanders's position on issues and goals as a little more serious.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... it "was a stupid mistaken by someone" - because it is always "someone" who is at fault, and never Bernie himself.
When his campaign staffers illegally accessed HRC's computer data, it was "someone else's fault"; i.e. the computer company's, the DNC's, the person who recommended that staffer for the job. When that staffer was described as a "low level employee", it was someone else's fault that he'd been described as such, when he was actually the high-level director of data.
When Bernie doesn't fare well in debates, it's the fault of the debates being scheduled on the wrong day, at the wrong hour. It's the fault of the unfair moderators, the unfair questions asked - even the unfair order in which candidates are presented or questioned.
When Bernie doesn't make any inroads with AAs and minorities, it's their fault for not "getting" his message.
When Bernie doesn't move ahead in the polls, it's the polling companies' fault for not calling the right people and asking the right questions.
When Bernie's regurgitation of the same talking points, over and over, doesn't garner any MSM attention, it's the media's fault for not giving his same old/same old speech the attention it deserves.
Exactly when does someone who thinks he can lead a nation take responsibility for something - anything? When does he stop doing this , and act like he's in charge of what goes on in his own campaign?
I find it pretty frightening to think of a president Sanders who constantly explains to the country that the economy is tanking, the deficit has tripled, and we're on the verge of WWIII due to "someone" in his administration making a "stupid mistake" - so don't blame him.
I guess the term "the buck stops here" doesn't mean anything to Bernie - and apparently never will.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I will be the first to go "ooops" if it were ever to turn out that Sanders sat down and said "Let's make voters think I was endorsed by the League by putting their logo on an envelope. Let's fool those suckers."
But I don't think Sanders has the time to personally go over everything his campaign does.
I will also give Clinton the benefit of the doubt that it was just wayward rogue staffers and supporters who circulated pictures of Obama in African garb and dropped hints that he is a Muslim born ion Africa in 2008.
Again, as for that mailer, it was factually correct.
http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/bernie-sanders
As for your other random points, they're too scattered to address individually.
I have heard Bernie on a number of occasions take responsibility for missteps. He is honest about the challemges he faces. He admitted he misspoke, for example, when he called PP establishment. He admitted his campaign staff screwed up with the server stuff.....I suppose he could dress in sackcloth and ashes and flail himself with a cat o nine tail, but that wouldn'tr be enough for some.
As for us Berniebros -- I generally try to be honest in my assessments. I don't agree with him 100 percent on everything, and there are things I wish he'd say or differently. But on balance, I agree with him and respect him a lot. I think the majority of his supporters are the same way.....But campaigns and supporters are not monoliothic.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)I'll just put you down for another "let's pretend what happened didn't happen" vote.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Bothered to post out of temporary nothing better to do, I guess....
I will say that you bring up some "supporters'" lines that I do and have disagreed with. But I can acknowledge that while disregarding you. Bye.
Hmmm, I see I have a reply. If it's Nance, I put you on ignore. Again. Only person I ever have.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)"Bothered to post out of temporary nothing better to do, I guess...."
DanTex
(20,709 posts)really, really, really wants people to vote Bernie instead of their official endorsee. So they send out mailers using the logo of LCV, without permission of course. And it's all an honest mistake.
Out of curiosity, what do Bernie's dishonest mistakes look like?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Everyone is piling on...so eager to smear. Is this the best you can do to smear Sanders?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Although I changed my avatar in revulsion at some who call themselves the same.
The logo should not have been used. Yes, it is a medium-sized deal. I hope and imagine Bernie would agree.
72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)But now, it's twice.
At least twice...
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)he included a picture of AARP members wearing red t-shirts with pics of AARP logo on them, because they were supporting Social Security. So he was using the membership,not necessarily the logo.
I'm not quite sure how that one plays out legally. They asked him not to do it again, but:
The organization did not contact the Sanders campaign about halting the mailing, according to spokeswoman Ann Black.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Still not right, but starting to sound more and more like a tempest in a teapot.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Now, pointing out that it isn't nice to STEAL things that do not belong to you (again, that happened before, didn't it--and three people got sacked, remember?) is not "smearing" -- unless you have a weird definition of the term.
And "pointing out a glaring, honking, stinking-obvious discrepancy" isn't "piling on," either.
The Sanders campaign did wrong, again. Hands were caught in cookie jars, again. It's a habit, it would appear.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... with the rules in BernieWorld:
Inferring that Hillary is about to be indicted and sent to prison over her emails is a "fact". Pointing out the facts about BS's campaign using unauthorized logos, accessing HRC's computer data, and impersonating union members are just baseless "smears".
Got it now?
MADem
(135,425 posts)To my shock, and at my advanced age, I have found that I have matriculated at "BU!"
Unfortunately, it's not the one on Comm Ave!!
FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)so there's that!
Why use the logo on campaign mailers, if they endorsed your opponent?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Some people might think using a logo next to their actual scorecard isn't that big of a deal.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)However, I'm currently getting "page not found."
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)They use (at the time I am viewing it) his official Senate photo, not his campaign logo.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)they've taken down the page.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)That's hilarious, and telling.
If I weren't getting ready to go to bed, I'd try archive.org
Anyone? Anyone?
questionseverything
(9,652 posts)might be really busy tonight i guess
how does the league of conservation voters support a candidate that supports fracking?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I don't know how to do a screen shot.
questionseverything
(9,652 posts)the whole thing with aarp and lcv seems so odd...both websites have bernie's pic on them and big write ups about him
i can understand why some staffer might of assumed they could use what the organization said about bernie for bernie....to me that would seem fair but i don't make the rules...lol