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passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:33 PM Jan 2016

So about that third recent attack on Bernie...the League of Conservation Voters

telling his campaign they can't use the LCV logo in their mailers. It looks to me like it was an honest mistake, as the mailer did not say they were endorsing him (they are endorsing Hillary).

The League of Conservation Voters, however, has contacted Sanders’s staff, objecting to their logo being used on another mailer, shared with Newsweek, which portrays the senator as an environmental champion. The pamphlet, which is being sent out in Iowa, notes that Sanders “has a lifetime score of 95 percent from the League of Conservation Voters” and displays the group’s logo beside it.


http://www.newsweek.com/sanders-complaints-iowa-nevada-420806

His campaign was trying to show they support him, (even if they don't endorse him in this race). Although they should not have included their logo, it's fair to show that they do support his policies.

The Hillary camp has been on a roll lately, digging for dirt, and they aren't coming up with anything but dust. And this newsweek story is a hit piece on Sanders, but they accidentally told the truth (the whole story instead of just the part they wanted to use) a few times in it...more than most of the recent hit pieces have done.

All the recent hit pieces being floated here are only telling the part of the story that makes it look deliberate and dishonest, when in fact by not telling the full story, the hit pieces are dishonest.
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So about that third recent attack on Bernie...the League of Conservation Voters (Original Post) passiveporcupine Jan 2016 OP
Always everyone else's fault but Sanders. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #1
I see a lot of victims around here passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #3
No he is not. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #8
I certainly won't disagree with that. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #14
I don't see that. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #21
You don't want to see it, do you? passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #26
What I see is Sanders supporters acting like petulant children when he is questioned on DU. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #37
My agreeing that he shouldn't have used the logo passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #44
You also called this a hit piece by newsweek. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #46
thank goodness questionseverything Jan 2016 #57
Read the newsweek piece. If that isn't a hit piece, I don't know what is. n/t passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #66
You got punked by that false AARP article. But that's OK, it was probably wishful thinking. nt TheBlackAdder Jan 2016 #67
Yeah quietly, ask them to stop ...But since they support Clinton they went for maximum embarassment Armstead Jan 2016 #18
Maximum? Have you seen this on tv? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #23
Maybe the TV has better judgement than to think it makes any difference Armstead Jan 2016 #43
Really--it's an "attack" because an organization said "Don't use OUR logo." MADem Jan 2016 #9
They are turning GDP into CS. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #13
The stuff Clinton's supporters are stooping to is laughable Matariki Jan 2016 #19
Maybe there should be a support group for people to be cured of the affliction of daring to... hrmjustin Jan 2016 #33
Always. NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #31
Sanders' staff doesn't make good decisions--this is just one example. MADem Jan 2016 #2
At least they didn't copy top secret information off a secure government server and Fawke Em Jan 2016 #11
Prove they did that! What is your source? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #17
Karl Rove? One of the Republica groups funding pro-Sanders stuff? KittyWampus Jan 2016 #27
I think they got it from fox. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #39
Oh yeah, I read about that! 72DejaVu Jan 2016 #25
When your only defence ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #38
I'm not blaming Hillary. Just her supporters for trying to make this something it isn't. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #22
Sanders' campaign has some leadership issues, IMO. I don't think MADem Jan 2016 #28
amateur hour DURHAM D Jan 2016 #4
By all means, NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #5
Suppose it had not had the logo but said the same thing? Armstead Jan 2016 #42
No, it wouldn't. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #45
As someone who has done a lot of layout (newspapers and otehr publications)..... Armstead Jan 2016 #52
Suppose it had not had the logo? NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #54
It was a stupid mistake by someone to use the logo. But the statement was correct Armstead Jan 2016 #56
I have a problem with ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #59
You're throwing a lot of apples and oranges in one basket Armstead Jan 2016 #62
What Armstead said. nt SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #58
Okay then. NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #60
Fine with me, as I disregard your opinions. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #61
LOL....I love that line Armstead Jan 2016 #63
This is awesome. Bernie wants to show that an organization that officially endorses someone else DanTex Jan 2016 #6
My did I hit a nerve. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #10
Well, you did hit the funny bone. Is that a nerve? DanTex Jan 2016 #16
I'm a Bernie supporter. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #20
Once is a medium-sized deal 72DejaVu Jan 2016 #29
Except he did not use AARP's logo by itself on his mailier passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #41
That is somewhat different. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #48
I think Bernie will be one of the first to agree and say this was a mistake. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #35
Naaaah....you're the one with the difficulty here. "Smear?" MADem Jan 2016 #36
You are apparently unfamiliar ... NanceGreggs Jan 2016 #47
Indeed! MADem Jan 2016 #53
This group endorsed Hillary Clinton..... FrenchieCat Jan 2016 #7
Because THEY have their logo next to HIM on THEIR website. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #15
Interesting, thanks. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #24
It's back. What hilarious timing. SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #51
I think someone pointed this out to them passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #30
Oops! Apparently your response was too logical because they have deep sixed the page! peacebird Jan 2016 #34
If they took it down in response to this, SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #40
it still comes up for me questionseverything Jan 2016 #49
Yeah, it's coming up for me now too. passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #50
me either questionseverything Jan 2016 #55
They should not have included the logo. Period. nt SusanCalvin Jan 2016 #12
I agree passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #32
It has already been proven it is a photoshop. yawn! jillan Jan 2016 #64
It has? Link please. n/t passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #65

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
14. I certainly won't disagree with that.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:40 PM
Jan 2016

And neither will Sanders. He does stand up to his mistakes and his campaigns mistakes.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
44. My agreeing that he shouldn't have used the logo
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
Jan 2016

is acting like a petulant child? Got it!

I'm still not clear on how he used it this time, as I haven't seen the mailier in question and now that Fawk em posted about them taking down the image of their logo next to Bernie's rating on their site, I can't even see that.

I just prefer to see a whole story, and attacks usually don't include the whole story, as in the last three cases of smearing Bernie today.

We don't know who is driving the story and we don't know the whole story on any of them, but boy are the Hillary supporters on fire to push them as evidence of Bernie's dishonesty.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
46. You also called this a hit piece by newsweek.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:59 PM
Jan 2016

There were three stories because his campaign did these acts.

Sorry if it offends you he got called on it but we are going to call him out on it.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
18. Yeah quietly, ask them to stop ...But since they support Clinton they went for maximum embarassment
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:40 PM
Jan 2016
 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
43. Maybe the TV has better judgement than to think it makes any difference
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:56 PM
Jan 2016

I havenl;t seen the AARP thing so can';t comment on that.

As for the League mailer -- the words about his voting record were correct andhonest. Somebody in their graphics staff made a stupid mistake in not understanding the concept of "fair use".....Meh

MADem

(135,425 posts)
9. Really--it's an "attack" because an organization said "Don't use OUR logo."
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:37 PM
Jan 2016

Everything is framed as an "attack." Even in this case, where it's plain that his staff took something that didn't belong to them--gee, where have we seen that happen before?

It gets a bit hyperbolic after awhile.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
19. The stuff Clinton's supporters are stooping to is laughable
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:41 PM
Jan 2016

Logos? Seriously? Because that's all you got.

Not a damn thing in the league of taking massive fees from banks that crashed the economy, or supporting the invasion of a country on false pretenses that killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Logos? Sheesh.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
33. Maybe there should be a support group for people to be cured of the affliction of daring to...
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:46 PM
Jan 2016

... question Sanders.

I feel so ashamed.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
31. Always.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:46 PM
Jan 2016

President Sanders: "I have no idea how we wound up declaring war on Russia. It must have been one of my low-level staffers who started it. Or the MSM. Or Hillary. Or the DNC, Or Debbie Wasserman-Schultz - you know, any one of those many people who are part of the vast conspiracy against me. I'm just a victim of persecution here."

MADem

(135,425 posts)
2. Sanders' staff doesn't make good decisions--this is just one example.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:35 PM
Jan 2016

Don't blame Clinton because his staff does stupid things.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
11. At least they didn't copy top secret information off a secure government server and
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:38 PM
Jan 2016

then email it, unencrypted, to a private and unsecure server.

That's what Hillary's staff is accused of.

That's not only stupid, it's probably criminal.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
38. When your only defence ...
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:49 PM
Jan 2016

... is trying to point the finger at what someone else allegedly did or didn't do, you've already lost the argument.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
28. Sanders' campaign has some leadership issues, IMO. I don't think
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:45 PM
Jan 2016

their tactics meld well with the high-minded attitude he attempts to convey.

There's cognitive dissonance there--and it is noticeable.

It's not about Hillary, or her supporters. It's a problem with his infrastructure.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
5. By all means,
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:36 PM
Jan 2016

... please enlighten us.

What part of BS's campaign using the logos of organizations that HAVE NOT endorsed him were not deliberate and dishonest?

Tell us the "full story" about how one uses unauthorized logos "accidentally" and "honestly'?

TIA!

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
42. Suppose it had not had the logo but said the same thing?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:52 PM
Jan 2016

Suppose the mailing had simply said Sanders has a 99 percent (or whatever it was) voting record with them, without the logo.

Would this kerfuffle even be a kerfuffel?

Somebody screwed up because they did not understand fair use rules about logos. Meh





SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
45. No, it wouldn't.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:59 PM
Jan 2016

Sounds like a lower-level messup to me. How serious I consider it would depend on how often it happened, was it corrected, have similar things happened in other campaigns, and how often.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
52. As someone who has done a lot of layout (newspapers and otehr publications).....
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:08 PM
Jan 2016

I can totally understand how it happened. It's easy to look for something to give some visual "punch" to an article or headline.

"Gee this says Bernie had a 99 percent voting record from them. Let's add their logo to give it some impact."

A dumb mistake, and I suspect it happens in campaigns quite often.

I'm going to assume that, and it was not some high level decision to knowingly deceive people. IF it was, it was very un-Bernie and the high levelperson should be canned.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
54. Suppose it had not had the logo?
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:09 PM
Jan 2016

Why should anyone have to "suppose" that what WAS done wasn't done?

"Suppose the mailing had simply said Sanders has a 99 percent (or whatever it was) voting record with them, without the logo."

But that's not what happened, is it?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
56. It was a stupid mistake by someone to use the logo. But the statement was correct
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:15 PM
Jan 2016

It was an honest statement. If it had been a lie, that would be a different matter. But it was the truth. The logo was somebody's idea of reinforcing it visually. How horrible. A new low in politics.

In terms of deceptiveness....well, I'd put some of the blatant misrepresentations of Sanders's position on issues and goals as a little more serious.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
59. I have a problem with ...
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:01 AM
Jan 2016

... it "was a stupid mistaken by someone" - because it is always "someone" who is at fault, and never Bernie himself.

When his campaign staffers illegally accessed HRC's computer data, it was "someone else's fault"; i.e. the computer company's, the DNC's, the person who recommended that staffer for the job. When that staffer was described as a "low level employee", it was someone else's fault that he'd been described as such, when he was actually the high-level director of data.

When Bernie doesn't fare well in debates, it's the fault of the debates being scheduled on the wrong day, at the wrong hour. It's the fault of the unfair moderators, the unfair questions asked - even the unfair order in which candidates are presented or questioned.

When Bernie doesn't make any inroads with AAs and minorities, it's their fault for not "getting" his message.

When Bernie doesn't move ahead in the polls, it's the polling companies' fault for not calling the right people and asking the right questions.

When Bernie's regurgitation of the same talking points, over and over, doesn't garner any MSM attention, it's the media's fault for not giving his same old/same old speech the attention it deserves.

Exactly when does someone who thinks he can lead a nation take responsibility for something - anything? When does he stop doing this , and act like he's in charge of what goes on in his own campaign?

I find it pretty frightening to think of a president Sanders who constantly explains to the country that the economy is tanking, the deficit has tripled, and we're on the verge of WWIII due to "someone" in his administration making a "stupid mistake" - so don't blame him.

I guess the term "the buck stops here" doesn't mean anything to Bernie - and apparently never will.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
62. You're throwing a lot of apples and oranges in one basket
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:21 AM
Jan 2016

I will be the first to go "ooops" if it were ever to turn out that Sanders sat down and said "Let's make voters think I was endorsed by the League by putting their logo on an envelope. Let's fool those suckers."

But I don't think Sanders has the time to personally go over everything his campaign does.

I will also give Clinton the benefit of the doubt that it was just wayward rogue staffers and supporters who circulated pictures of Obama in African garb and dropped hints that he is a Muslim born ion Africa in 2008.

Again, as for that mailer, it was factually correct.

http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/bernie-sanders

As for your other random points, they're too scattered to address individually.

I have heard Bernie on a number of occasions take responsibility for missteps. He is honest about the challemges he faces. He admitted he misspoke, for example, when he called PP establishment. He admitted his campaign staff screwed up with the server stuff.....I suppose he could dress in sackcloth and ashes and flail himself with a cat o nine tail, but that wouldn'tr be enough for some.

As for us Berniebros -- I generally try to be honest in my assessments. I don't agree with him 100 percent on everything, and there are things I wish he'd say or differently. But on balance, I agree with him and respect him a lot. I think the majority of his supporters are the same way.....But campaigns and supporters are not monoliothic.







SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
61. Fine with me, as I disregard your opinions.
Fri Jan 29, 2016, 12:07 AM
Jan 2016

Bothered to post out of temporary nothing better to do, I guess....

I will say that you bring up some "supporters'" lines that I do and have disagreed with. But I can acknowledge that while disregarding you. Bye.

Hmmm, I see I have a reply. If it's Nance, I put you on ignore. Again. Only person I ever have.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
6. This is awesome. Bernie wants to show that an organization that officially endorses someone else
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:36 PM
Jan 2016

really, really, really wants people to vote Bernie instead of their official endorsee. So they send out mailers using the logo of LCV, without permission of course. And it's all an honest mistake.

Out of curiosity, what do Bernie's dishonest mistakes look like?

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
10. My did I hit a nerve.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:38 PM
Jan 2016

Everyone is piling on...so eager to smear. Is this the best you can do to smear Sanders?



SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
20. I'm a Bernie supporter.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:41 PM
Jan 2016

Although I changed my avatar in revulsion at some who call themselves the same.

The logo should not have been used. Yes, it is a medium-sized deal. I hope and imagine Bernie would agree.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
41. Except he did not use AARP's logo by itself on his mailier
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:51 PM
Jan 2016

he included a picture of AARP members wearing red t-shirts with pics of AARP logo on them, because they were supporting Social Security. So he was using the membership,not necessarily the logo.

I'm not quite sure how that one plays out legally. They asked him not to do it again, but:

The organization did not contact the Sanders campaign about halting the mailing, according to spokeswoman Ann Black.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
48. That is somewhat different.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:01 PM
Jan 2016

Still not right, but starting to sound more and more like a tempest in a teapot.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
36. Naaaah....you're the one with the difficulty here. "Smear?"
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:48 PM
Jan 2016

Now, pointing out that it isn't nice to STEAL things that do not belong to you (again, that happened before, didn't it--and three people got sacked, remember?) is not "smearing" -- unless you have a weird definition of the term.



And "pointing out a glaring, honking, stinking-obvious discrepancy" isn't "piling on," either.

The Sanders campaign did wrong, again. Hands were caught in cookie jars, again. It's a habit, it would appear.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
47. You are apparently unfamiliar ...
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:59 PM
Jan 2016

... with the rules in BernieWorld:

Inferring that Hillary is about to be indicted and sent to prison over her emails is a "fact". Pointing out the facts about BS's campaign using unauthorized logos, accessing HRC's computer data, and impersonating union members are just baseless "smears".

Got it now?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
53. Indeed!
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:08 PM
Jan 2016

To my shock, and at my advanced age, I have found that I have matriculated at "BU!"

Unfortunately, it's not the one on Comm Ave!!

FrenchieCat

(68,867 posts)
7. This group endorsed Hillary Clinton.....
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:37 PM
Jan 2016

so there's that!

Why use the logo on campaign mailers, if they endorsed your opponent?

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
15. Because THEY have their logo next to HIM on THEIR website.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:40 PM
Jan 2016
http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/bernie-sanders

Some people might think using a logo next to their actual scorecard isn't that big of a deal.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
51. It's back. What hilarious timing.
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:06 PM
Jan 2016

They use (at the time I am viewing it) his official Senate photo, not his campaign logo.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
40. If they took it down in response to this,
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 10:50 PM
Jan 2016

That's hilarious, and telling.

If I weren't getting ready to go to bed, I'd try archive.org

Anyone? Anyone?

questionseverything

(9,652 posts)
49. it still comes up for me
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:02 PM
Jan 2016

might be really busy tonight i guess

how does the league of conservation voters support a candidate that supports fracking?

questionseverything

(9,652 posts)
55. me either
Thu Jan 28, 2016, 11:14 PM
Jan 2016

the whole thing with aarp and lcv seems so odd...both websites have bernie's pic on them and big write ups about him

i can understand why some staffer might of assumed they could use what the organization said about bernie for bernie....to me that would seem fair but i don't make the rules...lol

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