The difference between Bernie and Hillary fans.

[PyaarRevolution]

The bubble. There are a few exceptions but by and large I think Hillary fans are relatively comfortable in their economic situation and think some fine tuning here and there is necessary but not what Bernie asks for. Honestly, I think most of you that are Hillary supporters don't see this around your general group of friends or, if you do, you would support Bernie and be confident that he has a lot of support. Call it a filter bubble or whatever.
Truly, I can't understand that support except for the bubble. When you consider Welfare Reform, NAFTA, TPP, etc. I refuse to believe that most of you have friends that have been severely affected by this downturn.
I think the safest evidence of this whole illustration is on the group end for who supports Hillary. Look at the Unions that support Hillary, it's their leaders that back her, not the common people. These people run in the same circles and don't see the suffering the common man/woman has gone through.
Oh and I mean this for the most part. There are a few on here who've given up on hoping for something better so they go the pessimistic route.

[VulgarPoet]

1. K/R

[Cali_Democrat]

2. That's nice, except it isn't true. Bernie is polling better with higher income individuals.

[PyaarRevolution]

7. So...

You're suffering from student loan debt? Can't find a job in your chosen field because it's been Outsourced?

[JonLeibowitz]

8. What Cali-D said isn't even true. I wouldn't worry about it.

[murielm99]

24. This is projection.

There has been a lot of it. Legitimate criticisms of Bernie supporters have been voiced. They are merely trying to use the same criticisms against Hillary. Projection is childish, but sometimes effective.

[Vattel]

60. I know you are, but what am I?

[murielm99]

67. What a boring, childish reply.

How typical of Bernie's Internet cheerleaders.

[Vattel]

69. Apparently I should have added a sarcasm indicator.

[Hortensis]

87. LOL. Pyay, this IS classic projection.

Look it up. Why people supposedly committed to change so insistently reject and deny commonality with a group of allies they need to fight shoulder-to-shoulder with if they are to win is a matter for psychologists to explain.

Fwiw, again, we mostly want the same things you do, we just don't believe Bernie can accomplish them and might result in not just tvhe loss of everything we've gained so far but much, much, much worse

But if we are alike in our aspirations, the biggest difference is not Bernie or Hillar, per se. Though there are real differences, they are far more alike ideologically than you imagine.

It's that wolves are circling prowling our local, state and national governments and our courts, bent on consolidating and furthering all the authoritarian, corporatist, neofascist and theocratic goals we so rightly fear and loathe. We can never forget or dismiss that grave danger and consider that backing a weak candidate simply is not an option. In contrast, most of Bernie's DU supporters shockingly and bizarrely prefer to imagine we're far more dangerous than the right and ignore the real danger to our nation.

[Vattel]

100. I disagree.

" . . . most of Bernie's DU supporters shockingly and bizarrely prefer to imagine we're far more dangerous than the right and ignore the real danger to our nation."

[Hortensis]

117. Of course you do. People who feel that way also disagree.

[Vattel]

118. People who make groundless claims about what someone believes

should probably be less condescending.

[Eric J in MN]

70. Not what this Quinnipiac poll says.

Iowa January 12, 2016

Annual Household Income

<50K
Clinton 41%
Sanders 52%

>100K
Clinton 54%
Sanders 41%

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/iowa/release-detail?ReleaseID=2314

[DanTex]

72. That's an Iowa poll. National polls show the opposite.

[JonLeibowitz]

74. Nate Cohn (regrettably, of the NYT) disagrees

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/upshot/bernie-sanders-is-making-surprising-gains-with-less-affluent-whites.html

[DanTex]

76. Among white voters, huh. Yeah, things would be different if there were only white voters.

[JonLeibowitz]

79. Moving the goalposts again I see. I'm not surprised. Good bye.

[DanTex]

81. LOL. You were the one who brought up white voters. I have no idea why.

I never said anything about white voters. I said she does better with less affluent voters overall.

[JonLeibowitz]

82. Well given that NH and Iowa are primarily white, I was using those states as the first voting states

You are free to make an argument about less affluent nonwhites. But I demonstrated that your point was factually incorrect, so my work here is done.

[DanTex]

83. And, as I already pointed out, nationwide, Hillary is stronger with less affluent voters.

That was my point, and factually it is correct. How you interpreted that to mean among white voters is beyond me.

[CTyankee]

119. that appears to be the case in my own family (not that that proves anything)...

my very well off daughter is for HRC, my unemployed daughter is for Bernie, my middle class, employed son is for HRC because he is a strong feminist. So is my husband, but I am for Bernie. So it's a mixed bag here...

[Metric System]

3. Your theory needs work.

[RobertEarl]

17. No

It nails it. The have mores want less for everyone else so the have mores can have more.

H supporters are not looking good these days. In fact, they are making the hate for H grow and grow,

[riversedge]

20. You just made that up and you think it passes for the truth! NOPE

[elias49]

23. OMG That's funny!

[riversedge]

26. glad it hit your gunny bone.

[HERVEPA]

78. OMG That's stupid

[mcar]

4. Umm, I think you have the demographics reversed

[randys1]

5. And many Bernie supporters see pocketbook issues only, THEIR pocketbook. Just ask

POC about that.

People are people.

What I dislike are the GOP plants here at DU who spend all their time tearing down one of our candidates.

Not saying you are one, I have no idea exactly which ones are, they are clever that way.

[JonLeibowitz]

10. There are also those of us who would be hurt by Sanders' tax policies

But taces are the price you pay for a better society.

Oh yeah, and i also can't stand Clinton as a candidate

[randys1]

11. OH I am all for his plans, and while it would cost me it would actually save me

I think anyway.

I mean I would have to see the tables again, but my HC cost so god damn much, I am sure i would save at the end even if my income taxes went up

What i want to see is the end of capital gains tax, and tax it as income

[PyaarRevolution]

16. Oh I am so with you there.

On Capital Gains. Lets also not forget about speculation. You know they blew a hole in a mountain just to get a shorter line so someone could beat the market on commodities in terms of microtransactions?!
So disgusting. If there was a tax on that you'd better believe that would stop or be severely curbed.

[Docreed2003]

77. I say this as someone who would certainly be...

Impacted by Sen Sanders' tax plans. I have no issue paying more taxes if it means that college education becomes a realistic option for the least of us, I grew up in a rural community on a tobacco farm and most of my peers were destined for farm work or factory work because of birth, or if healthcare becomes a right for all Americans, because I see too many on the margins of society who struggle daily just to get adequate care. I realize I'm just one person, but I support Bernie because I believe in him and I believe in helping everyone in our society.

[PyaarRevolution]

12. Oh I don't doubt.

Trolls are everywhere. I know a site that is legendary for them which is why I tend not to go near it. I mean that site would make arguments here look like a pillow fight.

For my subject I just feel like there is such a severe disconnect in understanding between many Hillary and Bernie supporters I'm left with the bubble as an explanation.

I've even starting to think in politics we're likely as bad off in Washington as it was when Frank Capra filmed "Mr.Smith Goes To Washington" and I truly many Hillary supporters aren't recognizing that.

Bottom line, whoever wins I'm marching on Washington, to support Bernie when he becomes President or to force Hillary to see, through sheer numbers that many American people want the issues that Bernie supports pushed.

P.S. Dear God we need runoff voting and a voting holiday too but I doubt Hillary would push the former.

[randys1]

14. Yes to runoff...and holiday...Here is what it is to me, I will continue to work to protect the right

to vote for everybody

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

and work otherwise and on election day I will show up to vote for the least harm so there is something left to work on

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. The difference between Us and Them

Us are good. Them are evil.
Us are smart. Them are dumb.
Us see the truth clearly and rationally. Them see only their own distortions and lies.
Us will save the world. Them will destroy it.
Us have compassion. Them are cruel.
Us are on the side of the righteous. Them are on the side of the oppressors.

And ever shall it be.

Amen.

[BlueStateLib]

90. Binary thinking does not account for or consider shades of grey

[alcibiades_mystery]

91. No shit

Tell the OP.

[truedelphi]

9. I know that when I first started showing disapproval for Big Bankers' friend

President Obama, a lot of our friends were like: "How can you say anything against him? He is not at all buddying up to the Bankers, but he is fighting off racist slurs," and so on and so forth.

And then they ended up losing their jobs and their homes. So at that point, they too had ample time to spend on the internets figuring out just who is Tim Geithner, just what is it that our Presidents get in return for selling out the American public.Then they said, "Sorry it took so much for me to get your point."

[PyaarRevolution]

13. Sirius.

I remember that Lynn argued or many people argued on Lynn Samuels behalf that she got pulled from weekdays because she wasn't Pro-Obama. Funny enough she was a Hillary fan but even SHE admitted that Hillary likely wouldn't be as Liberal as she would like.

[Fumesucker]

18. It's worse than that...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-jobs-czar-general-electrics-jeffrey-immelt/

The Jobs Czar: General Electric's Jeffrey Immelt

How will GE's CEO Jeff Immelt help President Obama solve America's biggest domestic problem: unemployment? Hint: Half of GE's profits come from overseas.

[truedelphi]

22. I try so hard to not think about things like this.

Remember how Immelt flashed his Presidential seal cuff links (solid gold if I remember correctly) at some interview years and years back?

In order to let the Talking head guy know: "Look at how much Pres. Obama likes me - he gave me these pretties!"

[hifiguy]

36. Anyone who didn't realize we had been royally had

when the Geithner and Clinton appointments were announced is either dumb as a halfbrick or in willful denial so deep they should be nearing the bottom on the Marianas Trench.

[MisterP]

84. got banhammered for saying Obama was pro-banker

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1102605

[truedelphi]

85. ONE person's righteous ban is another person's badge of

Honor.

I just was banned from the hrc group here and it made my day.

Sort of silly how these bots will fall over themselves in congratulations for getting some thinking person's remarks banned.

[MisterP]

86. "closed discourse community": they've mangled their reality with their conversation

therefore DUers not voting Clinton would give us Trump (and not the millions of uninspired and risk-takers); they LIVE for confessions that everything they accuse others of is true, some sort of tearful ritual; they want the whip hand and a digitized, pixelated version thereof is more than good enough
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_supply

[FrenchieCat]

15. Thanks for telling me who I am and what I have.....

It would have been hard to know otherwise!

I am a Black Woman whose reason for supporting Hillary Clinton is
that I just simply want to win the general election....
which I strongly don't believe Bernie can do.

I don't want a GOP Trifecta, and the last 8 years of Obama rolled back
to the end of Bush's term. It is too high a price to pay for those who have
so little already, as they will have much less, and I care more about that.

I do not believe that American politics is going to change drastically, all of the sudden,
just because Bernie and his determined "small part of the overall electorate" believe
they can "Change" everything just like that, with the right messenger. It won't happen,
and the powers will not allow it.

I don't dislike Bernie's platform, nor Bernie,
although many of his supporters remind me of the La Rouche party.

I just know that IF Bernie did win the Primaries,
that is how far as it will go. The powers will not let him in the WH,
and any Revolution will be made to disappear ASAP, once
President Rubio (Florida) and V-P Kasics (Ohio) are sworn in.

For me, it's really that simple!

[PyaarRevolution]

19. This is why...

I have put out the call to Anonymous to monitor the machines. I remember hearing someone on Thom's show talk about the only reason we got Obama is possibly that Anonymous monitored the machines they made sure any Republican hacking was fixed. So don't think they won't try the same shit and beat Hillary.
In terms of numbers I think Bernie can win Swing states and even swing states like KS, AL, etc. where Republicans thought they had a firm hold. With Hillary there's no way the Democrats can win KS but with Bernie?! Heck yes. This is an FDR moment and I think most Kansans will support Bernie when they hear him speak.
Consider also how Bernie will effect the down ticket.

[FrenchieCat]

27. We got Obama, IMO, because....

He received an overwhelming majority....no matter what they may have tried to pull with the voting machines.

Hillary Clinton running against Trump will be the same. Most of the electorate
would choose a known quantity vs. an unknown quantity,
when it comes to governance.

Sanders running against Trump.....much more iffy, as they are both unknown quantity,
But what is true is that Trump will not be the GOP Nominee....

who will be the nominee is a Republican who almost sound sane (Rubio)....
because the choice for many Americans will be
the Almost sane vs. whatever Bernie will be regarded as
once the media and the 888 Billions the GOP have, are finished with him.

The attempted take down you are currently witnessing of Hillary, well please note that
Bernie will be taken down twice as fast, and twice as hard, once and if he gets through to the primaries.
If they can make folks disbelieve that Kerry's service to this country was admirable,
they can do just about anything! If they can defeat a Democrat because of the hat he wore in the funny picture,
they can do just about anything. If they can get the Supreme Court to call an election, they will crush Bernie
and his supporters.

FDR really did get elected because of the great depression.
There was no revolution, just enough people understanding that they had just lost everything,
and were standing in breadlines and selling apples.
That is not the times that we are living in, not after 8 years of Obama.
So that comparison is moot, although it may sound great to you.

I remember when it was said that Obama had talked about "redistibuting the wealth",
and how the media went crazy on him. His saving grace is that he actually hadn't said it,
as his words had been taken out of context.

Add that to 8 years of Bush and a country in financial free fall and having been lied into an expensive war,
and you have the reason that, apart from being young and Charming,
and not announcing a Revolution nor being a Socialist, allowed Obama to win.

Americans may be, as a whole, finally accepting Obamacare,
but what they aren't willing to do all over again,
is fight another healthcare battle again, so Bernie's offering won't look as attractive as
what you might think.

The Republicans will come into the WH, and the first thing they will do is repeal Obamacare,
and then we shall have nothing. Those folks left with nothing will be too busy dying and will not be able to attend the Revolution,
that will not only Not be televised, but will go the way of the Occupy Movement, into the deep dark
anal of history that is never told.

There is a reason that we haven't had a revolution in this country since its founding,
and why the Civil War took place in 1860. There are too many people who have just enough,
not to want to risk everything, and the powers know this well.

[PyaarRevolution]

34. Missed the point.

You really missed the boat. Occupy never went away, it just went underground and a lot of the vestiges of that movement are supporting Bernie. That will keep building and building till we get real change.
What is unknown about Bernie? Look at his record.

As for them trashing him if you think that Democratic Socialist label they can use as anchor to weigh him down the Republicans will have another thing coming. Enough young people don't have the baggage of the word Socialist hanging around in their brain. Even some of the older generation don't fall for that red scare bs where Socialism is a synonym for Communism.
Anyway, when Bernie gets the nomination they'll have to schedule debates. The Republicans will be frothing at the mouth to take him down and they'll be in for a rude awakening. Whoever gets that Republican nomination will be so severely thrashed they'll be in a daze by the end of the debate. Bernie will not play games with them.

[FrenchieCat]

48. Bernie hasn't governed...

and you should believe whatever you want about Bernie's skill at persuasion.

I know that most of his plans he has had for many years, but perhaps, yes....one day!

[truedelphi]

88. IF we should vote for HRC as she is a known quantity, then why should we have voted for

Barack Obama?
As he was a totally unknown quantity... Obama certainly did not have the decades of elected experience that Sanders possesses? Still and all, a nation of voters tired of the status quo decided that they needed to "be the change" and vote for change, etc.

Or didn't you vote for Obama?

[Herman4747]

28. Electability is indeed a reasonable, justifiable concern among many. nt

[Skidmore]

51. Excellent analysis.

Context means a great deal and politics does not occur in a vacuum.

[Senator Tankerbell]

25. The thought has occurred to me

that if some Hillary supporters were alive in 1776, they would be loyal to the crown.

[FrenchieCat]

29. That's just snark....

Doesn't help you in a long run.

[Senator Tankerbell]

30. I said "some"

[Bleacher Creature]

55. Snark is too nice.

I'd go with "insulting."

[PyaarRevolution]

35. You're wrong.

Those people are Sean Hannity and others.

[treestar]

96. complete BS

It makes no sense to hate fellow Democrats to this extent.

[Senator Tankerbell]

97. I don't hate anyone.

I feel sorry for people who get manipulated into acting against their own interests.

[senz]

105. Obviously.

[ucrdem]

31. Did you know that since 2010 the US has added more jobs than at any time in its history?

In fact, more than all other advanced economies combined -- the 35 advanced economies outside of the United States expanded by 7.9 million in the same time frame.

Country or Group - 2010 employment - 2015 employment, estimated - Absolute growth - Percent growth
United States 139.1 million - 147.5 million - 8.4 million - 6.1 percent

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jan/21/barack-obama/obama-obama-2010-us-has-created-more-jobs-all-adva/

[tokenlib]

89. But what kind of jobs??

Jobs for the masses?? Jobs with a living wage?? Or service sector crap?

[jaded_old_cynic]

98. This ^^^^^^

nt

[840high]

103. Thank you for this question. +10

[Recursion]

110. Since median wages are slightly up, obviously they are slightly higher paying jobs

than what people were working before

[mythology]

32. It's kind of sad that you think this.

Some people might look at Sanders proposals and realize they don't add up. Some people might realize that they 7% difference between the Senate voting records of Sanders and Clinton isn't that large. Some people might not vote strictly on what you perceive to be the correctness of Sanders proposal.

But you can't see that. Perhaps you're in a bubble of your own.

[hifiguy]

33. One difference I have noticed, and it's the 800-pound gorilla in the room

is that Sanders supporters tend to discuss policy, programs and ideas rather than blather on about how fab and groovy their candidate is while avoiding any mention of issues whatsoever. I'd have supported ANYONE who would run on a platform like Bernie's. It's the issues and not the person, and always has been for me.

[ucrdem]

37. Bernie seems stuck in 2008. A lot has changed.

Bubble.

[PyaarRevolution]

39. Is that a joke?!

The REASON Bernie is doing so well is because the needed reforms didn't get enacted under Obama. People didn't get the real change they wanted. Rather, they got scum like Timothy Geitner and others.

[ucrdem]

41. Here's what happened during the Obama administration: peace, jobs, and economic expansion.

This what the GOP and certain others neglect to mention. For example, 2012-2015 (from Feb. 2015):



2010-2015:

According to the IMF, then, the net number of people employed in the United States {since 2010} has grown by about 8.4 million people. As Obama said, this is higher than all other advanced economies combined -- the 35 advanced economies outside of the United States expanded by 7.9 million in the same time frame.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jan/21/barack-obama/obama-obama-2010-us-has-created-more-jobs-all-adva/

[hifiguy]

43. In the Real World

that counts an awful lot of temp workers and people in dead-end McJobswith zero future.

The average worker in the US now makes about $30,000/year.

Are things somewhat better than in 2009? Yeah, but most people are still treading water or slowly sinking.

[ucrdem]

46. In the real world the US has recovered from the 2008 crash and is on track to further growth.

It didn't happen by accident and it would be very easy to blow it all to hell.

[VulgarPoet]

49. Peace? What peace? Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Boko Haram, ISIL, all that is peace?

Wow. Just... Just wow. Let me know when our soldiers get pulled out then.

[ucrdem]

50. Donald Trump, last night: "We're gonna win the war."

What war?

[VulgarPoet]

52. I forget every so often. That's not war, that's simply military intervention

cause y'know everyone has to be dragged into freedom, kicking and screaming or not.

[ucrdem]

53. It isn't war and both Bernie and Warren have hinted that it's not enough.

Elizabeth Warren to Katie Couric: "Destroying Isis should be our number one priority."

Bernie Sanders, Dem debate#2: "Isis must be destroyed."

Barack Obama, televised message after San Bernardino: "Let's not get carried away." (paraphrasing)

[VulgarPoet]

54. oh god fucking what.

...Does he not realize we MADE ISIS due to our courtship with Saudi Arabia? The literal birthplace of Wahhabi Islam? My God, the entirety of the Democratic field this year is a bunch of warmongers, aren't they?

[ucrdem]

58. Hillary is no more likely to go rogue than Barack. But Bernie we're told is a leader.

Leaders like deciders tend do the right thing as they see it. No thanks.

[840high]

104. You wanr war? Vote for Hillary.

[PyaarRevolution]

64. IMF?!

Excuse me but did you quote the IMF?! This is the same freaking organization that set up those godawful loans to 3rd world countries when they had oil or some other resource we wanted, driving them into wretched debt. You want me to believe THAT organization?!
How do I know they didn't cook the data?! Seriously.

Also besides the fact that number could've been greatly expanded if he would've put a tariff on goods coming from overseas compared to American products.

[hifiguy]

42. Uhhh,

Seriously,

[ucrdem]

45. Being against Wall Street is not a policy, it's a slogan.

It's also a distraction from the impressive success of the Obama administration.

[Eric J in MN]

73. Bernie Sanders is seeking multiple reforms of the banking system.

"To Rein In Wall Street, Fix the Fed" by Bernie Sanders

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/23/opinion/bernie-sanders-to-rein-in-wall-street-fix-the-fed.html

[PyaarRevolution]

38. Definitely agree.

Sparklepony. ^_^

I mean it seems like she's always trotting out celebrities at one time or another. People are just so glad to hear Bernie and his ideas.

[hifiguy]

40. He doesn't talk down to people,

he looks them in the eye and tells them what he stands for. People respect that even if they don't necessarily agree with every word he says. Kinda reminds me of my late and much-missed Senator, Paul Wellstone.

[PyaarRevolution]

65. Isn't it suspected.

The he may have been killed?

[hifiguy]

66. Summing up the story a pilot friend of mine told me

- who was in the air less than ten miles away at the time - she was co-piloting Norm Coleman's plane, is the bone-chilling comment she made to me: "It's like that plane was swatted out of the sky. There was absolutely no reason for it to crash. None." And she's neither very political nor given to conspiracy theories. She was badly freaked out by that crash and believed the plane was somehow deliberately downed.

It has always stunk of Cheney to me.

[hack89]

121. You should read the NTSB report

It explains in great detail what went wrong.

[treestar]

95. Have you read DU?

that is the most untrue statement ever!

Most BS supporters are way more anti-Hillary than pro-BS.

Issues? No, we constantly hear how Hillary is a corporate shill, how the Democratic party fails to bend over backwards to accommodate Bernie, how Bernie will have magical coattails and Republicans will even want to work with him!

[jillan]

44. I heard a caller into the local progressive station here in Phx actually say that he is more

comfortable with Hillary because she is experienced and will be a peace maker, won't send us to unnecessary wars!

I was screaming at my radio - lol! Seriously - how ignorant!! And of course no one corrected him.

[retrowire]

47. I think the difference is this.

Hillary supporters have, since the beginning, assumed that Hillary is inevitable. Hell we all did. And so that comfort led to a complacency for the majority of her supporters. This is why there aren't as many Hillary activists as there are Bernie activists out there. Also the reason for the size of the rallies.

Because of this comfort, I get the feeling that Hillary supporters don't get out as much and therefore, really do remain in a bubble of MSM polls and such telling them they're doing swell. It just keeps adding to the idea that there's no need to do much because Hillary is fine.

Bernie supporters on the other hand have needed to actually communicate with each other because it was never a sure thing from the beginning. To this day, we have to SEEK each other out in order to learn more, the MSM isn't helping us out after all. The Bernie following is therefore, chock full of activists who are really passionate about getting it done. Hardly anyone in Bernie's camp is so comfortable that they think there's no need to donate to him or go and volunteer. So there's much more energy in Bernie's camp. Also, my passion for Bernie led me to register to vote, volunteer in a political campaign and communicate to strangers in ways that I never have before.

That's just my opinion.

[GoneFishin]

59. Hillary is a celebrity in politics. She has followers who are aligned with her for reasons other

than her policies. She has been dogged by right wingers for decades. You couldn't blame them if they were excited about Hillary becoming President just to flip the bird to the assholes at Fox News.

Bernie, on the other hand, has no pre-existing celebrity status. Consequently his supporters are mostly drawn to him for his current policy positions, rather than for some historical reason.

[retrowire]

62. Pretty much, yeah.

The only reason I got into politics in the first place is because I saw this video of some old guy with crazy hair talking about all the corruption and what we need to do to make America better.

Then I learned he was a politician.

Then I learned he was running for president.

And now I'm here. Politically active for the first time in my life. There are many like me.

[GoneFishin]

63. Pretty much the same. I support Bernie because I like his positions and he walks the walk.

[Bleacher Creature]

56. Lecturing people to explain to them their "true motive" typically doesn't work.

Even if I agreed with you (and I absolutely do not), it's a productive approach to the larger discussion.

[brooklynite]

57. Another "nobody could possibly have a GOOD reason" to support Clinton" argument...

I recall a story about a Janitor who saved up to contribute to Clinton's campaign, and the reaction from the Sanders crowd was that he was being "thoughtless"

[TBF]

61. This isn't American Idol - we are not voting for pop music

we are selecting a president who can actually give the average folks in this country a chance. I support Bernie and his ideas. I'm not his "fan".

Maybe that is where the difference really lies - to us this is not a reality show - it is real life.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. Meet the Former Janitor Who Scrimped to Give $1,000 to Hillary Clinton

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/meet-janitor-scrimped-gave-1000-hillary-clinton/story?id=32590011

[brooklynite]

75. ...who was described by someone here as "thiughtless"

I think the Bubble is around Sanders supporters who believe that nobody could have a good reason to support Clinton.

[ucrdem]

92. ^^^ Love this. ^^^

What a guy!

[treestar]

94. Wow!

And he is no Wall Street corporatist bankster oligarch! He deserves for his chosen candidate to win!

[PyaarRevolution]

99. Not thoughtless.

I pity the man honestly. Do you know what an Okeydoke is?

[Betty Karlson]

71. For the same reason (bubble) Republicans become Democrats as soon as their luck changes

and they suddenly experience hardship of one kind or another.

[72DejaVu]

80. I support Hillary

And I spend my whole day, 5 days a week, working with Medicare people who don't have transportation to their appointments. I have some inkling what it's like to be disadvantaged in this society.


Here is where the rabbit with a pancake on it's head would go.

[treestar]

93. why do Bernie people keep talking like this?

Rather than build up Bernie, you chide the Hillary supporters.

It has to do with the rest of the voters. And who they will vote for. And attempting to convince them. And seeing that right wingers are insane. The people who sent Ted Cruz to the Senate may well be poor. It's not like you say it is.

You don't have to make it personal. Simply argue what is best for the country. Even if it's as you say, then you aren't convincing those people.

[w4rma]

101. Clinton and her policies are neoliberal. Sanders and his policies are progressive.

Folks that support Clinton's policies, on their merits, are neoliberals.

Folks that support Sanders's policies, on their merits, are progressives.

Never forget that progressives, generally, ran the country from FDR up until Clinton lost Congress in 1994 through 'free' trade and gun control.

[Recursion]

102. Then why does Sanders's support skew richer than either Clinton's or O'Malley's? (nt)

[w4rma]

107. You have your demographics reversed, Recursion.

Among high-income voters in last Iowa D caucus poll from @DMRegister:
@HillaryClinton 57
@BernieSanders 28
https://twitter.com/NicholsUprising/status/693587408504254464

[Recursion]

109. Right, and high-income people are a *much* higher percent of Sanders's support than Clinton's

Like, almost twice as high.

[w4rma]

111. Let me read you the poll, since you have trouble reading it: 57% high income for Clinton.

27% high income for Sanders. High-income people are a *much* higher percent of CLINTON''s support than SANDERS.

[Recursion]

112. Yep. And that means I'm right.

57% high income for Clinton.
27% high income for Sanders. High-income people are a *much* higher percent of CLINTON''s support than SANDERS.

Nope. Learn statistics; your "conclusion" absolutely doesn't follow.

57% of high income supporters are for Clinton. 30% of Clinton's supporters are high income.

27% of high income supporters are for Sanders. 40% of Sanders's supporters are high income.

Because Sanders has many, many fewer supporters than Clinton, Clinton will lead Sanders in any given category. But a greater percent of Sanders's supporters are rich than of Clinton's supporters.

Clinton has more high income supporters than Sanders, but that's because she has more supporters from any category than Sanders.

If you randomly pick a Sanders supporter, he or she is more likely to be rich than if you randomly pick a Clinton supporter (that is what "skews" means, which was my original claim, and which is still true).

It's kind of funny how you keep posting numbers that prove what I'm saying, and think they're on your side...

[w4rma]

113. This poll is of Iowa. The Iowa race is statistically EVEN. You wasted a lot of time on that snark.

When you should have simply taken the numbers at face value.

So, *no*, you are completely wrong.

I'll repeat myself:
57% high income for Clinton.
27% high income for Sanders.

High-income people are a *much* higher percent of CLINTON''s support than SANDERS.

These numbers don't need to be further modified, because the number of supporters are statistically equal.

[ucrdem]

114. The OP is a tweet from John Nichols, whose magazine pushes luxury cruises with its writers.

http://www.nationcruise.com/

Ironic eh?

[w4rma]

115. Indeed. (nt)

[Cheese Sandwich]

106. Totally agree. Bernie supporters want to see everyone have basic rights like

Health care and a job and an education.

Hillary supporters tend to think the system is pretty good as it is but just needs a few tweaks.

[senz]

108. True liberals seek fairness for the poor and minorities.

Conservatives say, "I got mine, Jack" and couldn't care less.

[Hekate]

116. I have a friend who is so impoverished she lives in subsidized senior housing. HRC is her choice...

My friend is so strongly for Hillary that she called the local Democratic headquarters a couple of months ago to get a jump on campaigning for her, only to be told there's nothing going on in California yet. I went through my old emails and sent her every local link I could think of just so she could be hooked up when the time comes: Women's Political Committee, Dem Service Club, Dem HQ, and on and on.

In fact, all my women friends are eager to support Hillary Clinton and are convinced she is the best choice in 2016. I think it's about the experiences we've had, the kinds of shit we've lived through as women because we are women, and everything we've lived through under Republican presidents. We are all too aware that the battles we have fought are FAR from won.

It's really too bad that so many younger women are under the impression that the battles for women's rights have been won. Sorry kids, it just ain't so. We've been at this since before you were born.

Experience counts. Accomplishments count. It is very much a part of our decision process.
Hillary is experienced, competent, and accomplished.

[PyaarRevolution]

122. No one believes that.

I'm part of the GLBT community, a man and a staunch feminist. I'm big on a woman's right to choose, getting paid a fair wage, etc. Are you telling me that because I'm a man I won't support Women's Rights till I die?

I support Bernie but I thought the Hillary shirt "Women's Rights are Human Rights" was neat. I was curious to look at sizes and they're ONLY being made for men, now THAT is being oblivious to your audience as there may be pro-Hillary men who are big Feminists as well.

[Hekate]

123. "No one"? Which segment of "everyone" is "no one"? And shirt sizes? Perhaps a typo?

You might edit that for clarity.

"I support Bernie but I thought the Hillary shirt "Women's Rights are Human Rights" was neat. I was curious to look at sizes and they're ONLY being made for men, now THAT is being oblivious to your audience as there may be pro-Hillary men who are big Feminists as well."

^^^ JURY:The above is a quote from the poster. I am merely pointing out what may be a typo that changes the meaning of what he wrote.

In any case, I'm not "telling you" anything except my own experience in my own age and gender group. Personally I am glad for all the allies we can get -- it's just that while Bernie has been an ally, he hasn't been an activist in that arena the way Hillary has her whole life.

Take it for what you will, Pyaar. I don't judge your personal experience; kindly don't judge mine.

[olddots]

120. the difference was something I saw during the Clinton years

Issues were glossed over with a show bizz production value .When you walked behind the set or facade you saw that it was a temporary illusion that the 99 percent built for the 1 percent to act in front of .