2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhere was Bernie's "political revolution" in 2014 when GOPers took over both houses of Congress?
Bernie is a member of Congress and he sat back and watched while the GOPers started blocking everything from minimum wage increases and infrastructure spending bills to the student loan bill pushed by Warren and Obama.
Why didn't Bernie bring his "political revolution" to the table in fall of 2014?
We sure could have used it.
Instead we got stuck with GOP control of a Congress where Bernie is a member.
Bernie talks a lot, but I don't see a lot of action.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)NO WE CAN'T! NO WE CAN'T!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)NO WE CANT!
3 days!
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Busy planning her coronation, I bet.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)as a tuna sandwich? She was getting $ from the 1%. she had her priorities. If Bernie is supposed to be clairvoyant and omnipotent, why isn't she? Besides, where was Obama mobilizing? He leads the party. How is the independent senator supposed to do that for him?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... she can skin that cat in a more effective way with unilateral decisions.. something Sanders will soon follow
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)into it?
My question has nothing to do with Hillary. It's not even about Sanders. It's about the movement he claims is not about him.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)...into a heap of right wing rubble. The huge right wing lurch that happened under Obama was the undoing that made revolt necessary.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... leaders have had to deal with in Americas history.
That's another peeve of mine regarding the Sanders campaign; he's not telling people what they're up against... its unicorns or nothing.
Sanders didn't mobilize people to influence congress when things were easier with them, why in the world we believe he's going to such when things get harder
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Yes we cant do snything!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)It has lost it's way
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Millions and Millions of us.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But apparently, the movement can only manage to function behind one man . . .
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)It's working because we have EACH OTHERS backs.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)which sadly he had turned to us.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts).. which was very well spelled out.
Only Sanders is the one who's going to claim Obama leaned rightward...
Obama not only imperfectly had our backs but he asked for help multiple times
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)The future is calling. I've got work to do.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Your hypocrisy is stunning
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... on the side lines and threw rocks when things didn't go the way he wanted them to
Nanjeanne
(4,878 posts)Dems afraid of appearing too "liberal" - many ran as Republican lite. Progressives stayed home and Republicans voted for the actual Republicans. Majority of Dems that kept their seats were the ones that weren't afraid to run on real Democratic platforms. Plus so many of them also ran away from President Obama. So many reasons there was no enthusiasm. And one really BIG reason why there is so much enthusiasm now - Senator Bernie Sanders!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,878 posts)that Democrats will grow spines seeing how well Sanders is doing generating excitement and enthusiasm. They've been bending over for so long it may be hard for them to stand up. But the good news is Bernie has inspired people like Tim Canova, a real progressive, to run against Debbie Wasserman Schultz and I'm sure there are others out there.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...down a children's hospital in joker face on tv and still not be voted out of office
Nanjeanne
(4,878 posts)But wow. There are also state elections and Dems need to focus on local politics.
But take a breath. No need for such anger at me. I think I can express an opinion.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)because it's all about Vision and Working hard.
SMC22307
(8,088 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)They go frantic trying to cover it up.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Hahahahhah
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)Autumn
(44,763 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Autumn
(44,763 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Autumn
(44,763 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And it has been answered
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... else cause you know, Sanders really felt he needed their permission to mobilize people in vt or against congressional objections to Single Payer.
It's a fair question that puts in doubt
1. The revolution, if they weren't willing to move when things were easier what the hell are they goin to do now?
2. Sanders ability to lead; he couldn't mobilize people to influence SP in Vt... no really, VT
3. Sanders understanding of congress; either he's full of crap or he doesn't understand how a gerrymandered congress works
riversedge
(69,730 posts)problems--like he does now--but not much action or carry thru on any plans to tackle the problems
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)I believe the show was called Brunch with Bernie.
I used to listen to it.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Democrats at every level getting Democratic issues passed in Congress. Surely those associated with Congress knows the need to defeat Republicans at every level. For those who claim not to have anyone running which excites them, how much does the crap the Republicans are trying to get passed excite them. If there was a Republican president now ACA would be repealed.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)eom
retrowire
(10,345 posts)WHY DIDN'T 2016 EXIST IN 2012?!? TELL ME NOW.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)I've never gotten an answer.
FYI, the definition of "attack" is NOT "any comment, question or observation that does not involve effusive praise for Bernie."
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)marble falls
(56,367 posts)but not much worse. All style, no substance.
honeylady
(157 posts)Surely, that has to be understood. He was slogging away day after day in the Senate trying to do the best for his constituents. Now is the political revolution.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Sander's has fought for change in the senate since he got there, but as president he'd have a better platform for his message. People might not care about the opinions of a senator from Vermont, but they'd listen to the President of the United States.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)But the answer is easy.
We were waiting here, in the year 2015 and 2016. Where we exist.
We didn't exist then.
Easy answer!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... to fight for those issues then?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)HOW DARE HE NOT DO WHAT HES DOING NOW SOONER!
If only Obama was president sooner!
If only we landed on the moon sooner!
that's not what happened so... nothing can be done. this is the present. let's exist in it.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...that Obama do such by himself?!!?
This is more than a fair question
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Hillary.
yawn*
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... he was as senator.
the work isn't going to get easier
So if busy was a reason NOT to act then how will he lead this revolution going foward
retrowire
(10,345 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)enid602
(8,524 posts)The poor guy's been waing 50 years for his revolution. Where would his revolution be in 2016 without GOP help?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)he wasn't caucusing with the Democrats on the issues you bring up/ Can we see, or is this top-secret Clinton-only classified information?
mcar
(42,210 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)TARP was not good enough for Bernie. Never mind that it worked and returned a tidy profit.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/
amborin
(16,631 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)It was a blank check. And it was overseen by Elizabeth Warren.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)had the election taken care of. They had chosen the right candidates (over our objections) and we were going to win.
How'd that turn out again?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)We're just not willing to listen to your orders anymore.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... these are some really weak excuses for not acting or ms
Sanders not leading
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Do you read your own posts, or just type whatever pops into your head?
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)on things like raising the minimum wage and shouldn't be responsible for the candidates she picked losing those elections they did in the same states. That would be Bernie's fault because she and the DNC said so... So it must be4 true and should be repeated here...
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)It says far more about you than us.
We are well aware that we will be fighting this battle for a long time. Stop pretending we're idiots who think it can be won in a year.
We have been fighting for single-payer for 80 years now. We are well aware that these battles take a long time.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)And I agree that these battles take a long time. But you'd better not let some of your fellow Sanders supporters see you acknowledge that since the suggestion that the revolution won't rise up and fix everything overnight really sets them off . . .
jeff47
(26,549 posts)We disagreed with the candidates, but went along with the party leadership. Given the massive losses, it was a mistake to believe in our party's leadership.
Again, your claim that we are all morons says much more about you than us.
Btw, keep in mind if things go your way, you're going to need us to vote for the lesser of evils. Something that just really, really hurt us in 2014. Perhaps insults are not the smartest move, oh long-term thinker.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Where was your revolution in 2009-2011?
Why do you keep saying I've called you morons? I have done nothing of the kind and I will call you out on your lie as long as you keep repeating it.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Also, you'll find Kane and DWS followed similar strategies of desperately trying to distance the party from Obama, and running as Republican-lite.
It's an obvious inference from your continued claims that Sanders supporters think he will magically change everything, overnight.
Only a moron would believe that. So you claiming that we believe it means you are calling us morons.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)....and the revolution is on hold until further notice?
So all the monarchy in France had to do was tell the revolutionaries to shut up.....and it would have been put on hold?
Why didn't they think of that?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)That, apparently, was a mistake. We'll be sure to not repeat it.
But thanks for attacking us for thinking our party leaders were competent!
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)Published on Apr 10, 2014
Sen. Bernie Sanders discusses oligarchy in a Senate floor speech.
Thanks for the thread, Cali_Democrat.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)after the Barack administration got through gluing it back together:
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)"Why didn't Bernie bring his "political revolution" to the table in fall of 2014?
We sure could have used it."
Bernie was speaking to the Democratic Party on the Senate floor explaining what our national dysfunctions were and his council was ignored.
These are the same messages that are propelling his campaign today and anyone running for Congress in 2014 could've done the same thing then.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Besides he's full of baloney. He says for years the US was the envy of the world because of economic opportunity yadda yadda. Guess what? Under the Obama administration the US added more jobs than Europe, France, and the rest of the advanced economies combined. 8.4 million new jobs in the US 2010-2015 vs. 7.9 million, per the IMF, which Politifact confirms:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jan/21/barack-obama/obama-obama-2010-us-has-created-more-jobs-all-adva/
Bernie was scaremongering for the cameras while Dems were putting America back to work. Not helpful. And no he was not a Dem in 2014.
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)their schedules didn't permit.
Your own link states the job creation as being a "half truth"
Obama said, "Since 2010, America has put more people back to work than Europe, Japan, and all advanced economies combined."
From publicly available data, we know that since 2010, the United States has created more jobs than the 35 other advanced economies combined. However, its not as clear cut that this recovery involves putting "more people back to work," as Obama suggests. The labor force participation rate has consistently declined during this period, suggesting that more and more unemployed Americans are dropping out of the workforce, rather than taking new jobs.
On balance, we rate Obama's claim Half True.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jan/21/barack-obama/obama-obama-2010-us-has-created-more-jobs-all-adva/
Bernie "the not Dem" co-founded and led for the first eight years the largest membership organization of the house caucus in the Democratic Party.
The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) is the largest membership organization within the Democratic congressional caucus in the United States Congress with 69 declared members.[4] The CPC is a left-leaning organization that works to advance progressive and liberal issues and positions.[5][6][7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus
Bernie the "scare mongerer" is he most popular Senator in the nation.
During his first year in the House, Sanders often alienated allies and colleagues with his criticism of both political parties as working primarily on behalf of the wealthy. In 1991, Sanders co-founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus, a group of mostly liberal Democrats that Sanders chaired for its first eight years.[29]
(snip)
Polling conducted in August 2011 by Public Policy Polling found that Sanders's approval rating was 67% and his disapproval rating 28%, making him then the third-most popular senator in the country.[110] Both the NAACP and the NHLA have given Sanders 100% voting scores during his tenure in the Senate.[111] In 2015 Sanders was named one of the Top 5 of The Forward 50.[112] In a November 2015 Morning Consult poll, Sanders had an approval rating of 83% among his constituents, making him the most popular senator in the country.[113]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Anyone can put anything in wikipedia, and if he was all that he'd have some friends besides what's-his-name and that-other-lady.
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)that would be with his constituents aka; the people.
Bernie's major democratically voted endorsements are a testament to this and an affirmation of the Wikipedia article which I posted, the membership actually voted and he won overwhelmingly.
Within minutes of one another, the progressive activist group Democracy for America and the Communications Workers of America union both backed the senator in the race for the Democratic nomination.
DFA, which was started by backers of former Vermont Governor Howard Deans 2004 presidential bid, has grown into a well-regarded grassroots political and issue-advocacy organization with active groups in states across the country and a track record of backing progressive candidates at the local, state and federal levels. Early in the 2016 race, the group urged Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren to seek the Democratic nomination. This month, it conducted a national poll of members that concluded December 15. Sanders won 87.9 percent of the 271,527 votes cast in a contest where an endorsement could only be secured with a super-majority (66.67 percent or more) of all the votes cast. Clinton (who is backed by Howard Dean) took 10.3 percent, while 1.1. percent backed Maryland Governor Martin OMalley.
The level of support for Sanders was unprecedented. When the 11-year-old group held a similar vote on whether to endorse in the 2008 presidential race, no candidate cleared the super-majority hurdle.
87.9 percent of Democracy for America members voted for Sanders in a national poll.
This is an historic moment for DFA, for the progressive movement, for the Democratic Party, for people-powered politicsand for Bernie supporters who relentlessly rallied over nine intense days to Get Out The Vote and win this pivotal endorsement, explained Democracy for Americas executive director Charles Chamberlain. Bernie Sanders is an unyielding populist progressive who decisively won Democracy for America members first presidential primary endorsement because of his lifelong commitment to taking on income inequality and the wealthy and powerful interests who are responsible for it.
(snip)
http://www.thenation.com/article/democracy-for-america-communications-workers-union-endorse-bernie-sanders/
With a record-setting 78.6 percent of 340,665 votes cast by the MoveOn membership, Senator Bernie Sanders has won MoveOn.org Political Actions endorsement for president with the largest total and widest margin in MoveOn history.
MoveOn.org only endorses candidates based on votes by our members. Our only previous presidential endorsement during a Democratic primary was for Barack Obama, in early 2008. In 2004, no Democratic candidate reached the threshold for an endorsement.
Here are 5 of the top reasons MoveOn members support Bernie and will mobilize on his behalf to get out the vote in Iowa, New Hampshire, and other crucial early states.
(snip)
http://front.moveon.org/top-5-for-bernie/#.Vqw2JNIrL4Y
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)What's your answer about Democracy for America and MoveOn voting for and endorsing Bernie with such record breaking, historic numbers?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Hes claiming he can mpbolize people to change the minds of a historically gerrymanderred GOP congress...
thats a whole lot more than making speeches
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)Democratic Party listen to him?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...RFK didn't...his relationship with the black communtiy was never predicated on what someone in Washngton said... so I reject the notion that Sanders had to wait on being more than a US Senator
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... on doing the right thing when it needed to be done
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)living, then assassinated President doesn't give you inherent emotional connections!? Not to mention coming from a larger more populous and diverse state.
I'm not taking anything away from RF K's good works but to deny those dynamics didn't give him inherent advantages in reaching out not just to African Americans but the nation as whole is to deny reality.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... point being president or not being such has never stopped great movers in the past.
I dont think thats good enough reason for Sanders mobilizing ability to sit on the sidelines and do lottle to nothing when it was needed
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)because he's running for President and the people are putting their hopes on him, up until then to the vast majority of Americans he was unknown, but he has always been speaking out.
As more Americans come to know Bernie and his message, his mobilization ability is growing.
If you, Hillary or the Democratic Party in general have failed to heed Bernie's consistent decades old pleas, don't be blaming Bernie for it.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Where was Hillary? Lining her pockets with big money and getting bought and paid for. Gee, isn't that swell.
.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... to influence congress...why didnt he do that when these issues were hot in the past?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)He's been sounding off about all of this stuff for decades.
Now he's running a national campaign for president. The people love him so much he has fueled their fire and desire for a better life. They are flocking to him in droves. They are part of the revolution. Where were they in 2014?
Where was Obama in 2009? Why didn't he capitalize on the movement he created during his campaign? He basically told everyone to go home. He failed to use the bully pulpit. Bernie won't do that. He will take this momentum all the way into the White House.
Why are you so upset that he is trying to change things for the better? Hillary supporters say Bernie supporters want unicorns, but we give you unrivaled enthusiasm and you ask why now as if you are all spoiled brats.
This OP and your questions are the among the most ridiculous I've seen on DU. Seriously. Where was Hillary in 1995? 1974? 1985? 2002? 2011? 1978?
You guys really need to get a grip. If this is all you got, well I guess you're going to keep rolling with it but you really should pretend this is an OP by a Sanders supporter about Hillary and see how stupid it sounds.
Seriously.
.
.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)suddenly start listening to him just because he's president?
And if you think the OP is so ridiculous, why are you expending so much energy engaging in the ensuing discussion?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)You guys are making such pathetic attempts at dismissing Sanders. This is almost as bad as making a big deal out of a slogan.
.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Oh yeah, she refused to endorse a Democrat and publicly supported the Republican.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)For 35 years, our party has been locked in on the third way, corporate strategy. Candidates who tried to push the party in a progressive direction were ignored, ostracized, etc.
Truprogressive85
(900 posts)So your meme now its Bernie's fault that the Democrats ran shitty canidates ?
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Now Clinton is running on Obama's record because she can't run on her own.
It really makes you wonder if the DNC has any plan at all. But hey, why not blame Bernie and the voters.
Truprogressive85
(900 posts)They have nothing left now
They just throwing anything out there
Debbie Downer doesn't care if democrats win , she collects her paychecks, sips Champagne with Corporate big wigs
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Truprogressive85
(900 posts)Where was the Hillary Clinton ? ............................
Why didn't she come and save the day she is the leader right the pragmatist, the person that can get stuff done correct ? or Nah?
She was busy collecting all those bribes ..excuse me I mean "speaking fees"
Because we all know Big Banks always pay former Secretary of State 250k so they can talk about ... well heck we do not even know what was said in those behind the door speeches.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... ability to mobilize it should've been used when it was needed on issues during the ACA fight etc.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)If he loses will the "revolution" continue? I seriously doubt it. He has no allies in Congress- no fellow down ballot Democratic Socialists to get things done. Will all those worshippers vote in the mid term? They sure didn't in 2014. The reality is that Democratic candidates will keep as much distance as they can between themselves and Bernie. Bernie will promise anything to win.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)You seem to have the same mind set!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Nice dodge-Bernie has no plan- it's the Emperor's new clothing. His numbers don't add up.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Financing college education through taxing speculative trades on Wall Street IS a plan that not only relieves student debt, which helps students, and helps stimulate the economy when they can spend money instead of just staying in or paying down debt to the banksters that Hillary doesn't want to tax because they PAY her for those favors, and then many like you are SUCKERS to believe the crap that this won't work or are complicit in it financially as well.
There are many other similar examples, but it isn't hard to see why those complicit with this fraud would choose to deny that Bernie has a plan to take down what has been fraud and destructive wealth redistribution to the wealthy and powerful in so many places in our society.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Why do you guys always have to throw personal attacks when someone doesn't agree with you? If I'm anything I'm not a sucker. I'm a pragmatic person who likes to get things done.I like specifics. These proposals of Bernie's cannot be done with Executive Orders. What is his plan to take back the House and the Senate? He has not done anything to build the Democratic Party. He has no alliances. I'm sorry- just saying "political revolution" is not a plan. What is his plan to get any of his proposals through Congress. What about taking back State Houses? What about his plan to deal with voter suppression? What are his plans for that? Our system requires compromise to make progress- You Bernie supporters would start screaming if Bernie compromised. Where is the wave of Democratic Socialists in Congress and in State Houses that will march arm in arm with Bernie?
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Personally, and I think MANY people in this country feel this way, he doesn't need to have pals in the oligarchy, NOR SHOULD he, to get things done. He had just here in Portland alliances of over TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND PEOPLE in one night!!! THAT is what counts in the DEMOCRATIC system that our founding fathers had in mind to run this country in the constitution they wrote for us then. To say that doesn't count is to deny our historical foundations.
"Not done anything to build the Democratic Party?" BULL F'ING SHIT!!! He's probably been responsible for more disaffected independents now registering as Democrats to vote for him in primaries who had been growing in numbers in recent decades when they got FED UP with the CORPORATIST cancer that has taken over this party that so many are fed up with now.
What is Hillary's plan to get PROGRESSIVE proposals through the SAME congress (though probably more Republican than what Bernie would deal with as she'd have less progressive coat tails to vote in progressive Democrats the next election)? Oh, I guess for many supporting her, whether what she passes is progressive or serving the people's interests doesn't really matter? Maybe just a little social issue window dressing, but more CRAP like Free Trade bills and guest worker programs that screw more Americans out of jobs, etc. and further the wealth divide already at critical levels now.
Compromising by throwing away things like social security, letting banksters escape prosecution that even a Republican president like Reagan would have taken action on like he did in the Savings and Loan Crisis, or letting students get further in to debt, etc. and "compromising" by giving corporatists and Republicans what they want with trade bills that turn over power unconstitutionally fascist ISDS courts is not what we need. We need to hold the line there and let people know that if they want things done in this country for THEM, that they need to vote in more progressive Democrats, not SELLOUT corporatist pols that just wear a Democratic Party label.
A DOJ doesn't depend on congressional votes. It can prosecute criminals on Wall Street, and by doing so cut down on the amount of corruption and congress critters that are bought so that "compromise" becomes easier without giving up on progressive principles that too many corporatists see as the way to "compromise". Bernie's commitment to not have Wall Street people in his cabinet will also help us as well.
We're all in the same battle. Just because the battle to do things more to put in place government that is more progressive and works more for the people is a bit harder, doesn't mean that isn't what we should plan to do eventually. Giving up one's principles and calling it "compromise" isn't the way to work. The people ultimately won't accept that. If that is what you promise, a lot of people seeing empty promises will stay home and you'll still have a Republican congress and perhaps a Republican president to screw us even more.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)There are no Democrats advocating throwing away Social Security. That's hyperbole. We have some great progressive people in Congress like Sherrod Brown that you are calling corporatist sell outs because they are supporting Hillary. Throwing progressives like him under the bus is not the solution to getting more Democrats in Congress. FYI- our bicameral system of government does not get anywhere without compromise. If President Bernie brings one of his proposals to Congress and tells them to take it or leave it with no changes or compromises what do you think will happen? I voted for Democrats in the mid term-I sure hope you and all your "revolutionaries" did-until we start taking back Congress and the State Houses in the mid terms it will be very difficult no matter which Democrat is president. The idea that the bully pulpit will change things is bullshit. You need allies-help your fellow Democrats and use your popularity to help candidates in down ballot races. Bernie has not raised any money for his fellow Democrats. Hillary has.
Nowhere did I advocate compromising with Wall Street crooks. I am all for prosecuting white collar criminals. You Bernie folks think all Hillary supporters are all corrupt and crooked. The reality is that she is more progressive than President Obama-she may not be hard left like the purity police require. I think our President has done a remarkable job considering he has had a Republican Congress. He got a lot done considering they attempted to block everything he did. I know a lot of you BSS trash him too. I supported him in both elections. I happen to admire him greatly.
I liked Bernie at first, but Ill have to say I've had so many personal attacks on DU by BSS for just stating my opinion it has made me start to question his campaign. Calling me a Republican, or saying I've given up my principals when I've been a faithful lifelong Democrat is not going to further your cause. You are going to need people like me if Bernie wins the nomination.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)omg...
.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Riddle me that, Batman.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)but calling this nonsense you guys have just made up whole cloth "goalposts" in the first place is giving it WAY too much credit.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)litlbilly
(2,227 posts)can you be.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)There was one calling Hillary a career criminal earlier.
Now we get someone blaming Bernie of all people for the 2014 disaster.
When will the stupidity stop? Lets discuss real issues.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It's a dumb question and you know it. It's just as dumb as harping on Hillary's emails.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)where was his mobilizing in the past when people were fighting for these issues?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And where is your chosen candidate's revolution?
Why did gays wait until now to get marriage equality?
Why did women wait so long to get the right to vote?
Why did blacks wait so long for civil rights?
.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)Talking points/attacks do they...That question should be addressed to DWS
It was Debbie that didn't give a shit which party had the Majority and for your information we needed progressive
candidates that Debbie would not support because she was also the DCCC chairman.
Answer your question?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)pretty much like Hillary does when she is in her Karl Rove attack mode as well
By the way did that Right Wing advisor David Brock for Hillary hand these attack scripts out to you Hillary fans this evening?
Because you are getting nowhere....You need to google Lee Atwater or Karl Rove and lets see there was another right winger oh yes Ed Gillespie and see if there are more talking points you could perhaps pick up,cause these are not working.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... payer passed or thats what we're being sold now...
"They didn't nothin..." is a piss poor reason not to do the right thing
INdemo
(6,994 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)We had a Democratic president at the time. He did the best he could, given that (IMHO) he didn't, at that time, use the bully pulpit and/or negotiating skills worth a ¥©£.
Whyintheheck are you blaming Bernie??
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)You are saying that a single Senator from the state of Vermont bears responsibility for all of the Republican idiocy in Congress?
S t r e t c h i n g . . . . .
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)will rise up and force the Republican Congress to support a liberal agenda.
Sanders consistently says this isn't about him, it's about the people and the movement. I'm simply asking where this people's movement was before now. If it's not about Sanders, then there's no reason that this movement needed to wait until he ran for President to get itself together and force the change he and they claim they can do.
So, I am asking why this movement didn't rise up and help Obama push his agenda - which, according to many Sanders people is much less progressive than Sanders' agenda and, therefore, easier to get through if Obama had the help of all of these movement people Sanders now tells us have the power to force change. Where were they then?
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...and Bernie is taking it to the next level. As a Senator, he has a more limited role. As a Presidential candidate, he has the opportunity to actually promote and lead the movement.
His success in this campaign so far shows the value of a national stage -- i.e. a bully pulpit. Bernie has shown that he knows how to use it. It will be one of the most important tools in his Presidency should he pull it off.
I for one am hoping that he does.
neverforget
(9,434 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)However, in 2014 he was in the Senate doing his job and speaking out as always.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)and Reid?
Seriously what the fuck!!!
Nah...it's Bernie's fault yo!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...sit on the sidelines and chunk rocks at people
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Bernie was spreading the same message then. And he was widely popular here for doing so. What a fucking joke.
elias49
(4,259 posts)I think Hillary's rubbing off on you. Take a break.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)but its either the really good stuff or the really bad stuff,second thought its probably the bad stuff cause the good stuff puts you in good mood !!
Jarqui
(10,110 posts)He was doing what he's done for 50 years: fighting for us. Income Inequality, Veterans healthcare, Climate change, etc
What was Hillary doing for us in 2014?
Amount - Company
$225,500 GE
$225,500 National Automobile Dealers Association
$225,500 Premier Health Alliance
$225,500 Salesforce.com
$125,000 Novo Nordisk
$225,500 Healthcare Information Management and Systems Society
$280,000 A&E Television Networks
$222,500 Association of Corporate Counsel Southern California
$275,500 The Vancouver Board of Trade
$225,500 tinePublic Inc.
$250,000 Drug Chemical and Associated Technologies
$225,500 Pharmaceutical Care Management Association
$275,000 Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal
$225,000 Xerox Corporation
$225,500 Academic Partnerships
$250,500 World Affairs Council-Oregon
$225,500 Marketo, Inc.
$265,000 Let's Talk Entertainment Inc.
$225,500 Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries
$100,000 California Medical Association
$225,500 National Council for Behavioral Healthcare
$265,000 Let's Talk Entertainment Inc.
$225,500 International Dairy-Deli-Bakery Association
$225,000 United Fresh Produce Association
$150,000 tinePublic Inc.
$100,000 tinePublic Inc. (cosponsored with the Edmonoton Chamber of Commerce)
$150,000 Innovation Arts and Entertainment
$335,000 Biotechnology Industry Organization
$150,000 Innovation Arts and Entertainment
$280,000 GTCR
$225,500 Knewton, Inc.
$225,500 Ameriprise
$225,500 Corning Incorporated
$325,000 Cisco
$300,000 Nexenta Systems, Inc.
$225,500 Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd LLP
$275,000 Cardiovascular Research Foundation
$225,500 Commercial Real Estate Women Network (CREW Network)
$275,500 Canada 2020
$260,000 Deutsche Bank AG
$265,000 Advanced Medical Technology Association
$225,500 Council of Insurance Agents and Brokers
$335,000 Qualcomm Incorporated
$225,500 Salesforce.com
$265,500 Massachusetts Conference For Women
========
$10,509,000
INdemo
(6,994 posts)ram2008
(1,238 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)deathrind
(1,786 posts)Bernie reminds me a lot of Glum...
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... and standard that looks like he has never been to stand up to
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Can you point me to a quote where he says... "I'm revolutionary!"? "I AM REVOLUTIONARY!" "I AM THE REVOLUTION!".
Or, as is my suspicion... is this just some stupid bullshit you made up to discredit his challenge to your chosen female candidate?
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)scared and they are desperate and they must know the real poll numbers..
So stay tuned for Monday evening for Hillary's "Scream Speech" 2016
And I hope Mrs Greenspan covers it cause I want to see the look on face.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...doesn't look like IA or VT.
less than a month out... thats not good for him at all....
either way, no ones sKeered of Sanders... just calling folk out on thier ....BS
Perogie
(687 posts)draa
(975 posts)As far as Bernie? He was busy serving on these committees with the Democrats who put him there. You'll notice he's the Ranking Member on two committees as well.
Committee on the Budget (Ranking Member)
Committee on Environment and Public Works Subcommittee on Clean Air and
Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee on Energy
Subcommittee on National Parks
Subcommittee on Water and Power
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Primary Health and Aging (Ranking Member)
Committee on Veterans' Affairs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)draa
(975 posts)Send him an email and see what he says.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... permission to move and mobilize when there was no permission to be granted.
This is a fair discussion, where was this revolution and where was Sanders WILLINGNESS to move and mobilize on issues like Sandy Hook etc....
draa
(975 posts)You do realize that NOBODY had heard of Bernie before April. A few knew of him but the 30 thousand you saw in Seattle sure didn't. Neither did the 20 thousand in Missouri. So tell me, if NO ONE knew of him how exactly was he supposed to mobilize people. That's just silly.
No one knew him in 2012 or 2014. How can people mobilize around what they don't know.
Thanks and good night.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...congress to get his agenda passed... if he thinks he can do it now where was he then before DWS became party leader?!!?
where was this mobilizing when single payer was brought before the senate!??
Ok, I'm not arguing Dr King with you or anyone else. It's an insult to the man you'd even bring him into this. This is about a little known Senator from Vermont who no one knew one year ago. And the fact that you pretend to be concerned and then invoke Dr King to make a point tells me you're not looking for an answer as much as an argument. I'm done.
Like I said, call Bernie or not but leave other people out of it. eom
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... do.
Your retort is more of a cop out, intimating Sanders needs to be high stationed in life to lead a revolution or mobilize people is not true... it helps but more people have done a lot with less than what Sanders has now.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)rise up and force Republicans to change their votes to support Sanders' platform.
But no one has answered my seminal question. Where were all these people before no? They say it's not about one man, but they also have shown now ability to mobilize and force change in Congress until Sanders came along, so it really does seem to be about him. And it's not, why did they not do their uprisings previously when President Obama could have used their help?
draa
(975 posts)I believe the people you see supporting Sanders are many of the same people who supported Obama in 2008. I voted for him myself. Many of us thought Obama would come in and punish the bankers and try to reel in some of the corruption that seems rampant in the system (mainly campaign finance reform). We also hoped he'd help the bottom of the rung a bit more as well.
People want help. Offer them help and you'll get them to the polls. If not they stay home or worse, they leave the party. The people you see supporting both Sanders ad Trump are in that group that hates what the system has become and wants shit done. Now I'll admit they're on opposite sides of the spectrum but the discontent is still there.
In other words, there's a shit load of pissed off people. And that's not good. Thanks and I hope this helps.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)draa
(975 posts)He was an unknown by most people until last April. If you followed politics you might have heard of him but his policy proposals and his ideas weren't widely known. It's unlikely he could have done what he's done without the presidential race. That gave him exposure.
As far as doing what he says he wants to do? Who knows. If you'd asked me in 2007 would we have the ACA I would have said no. Most people would. And it's not about getting everything done. It's about a vision and a drive to see it through. Failure or not damn it you must try. Too many people need help to not try.
One thing I know about Bernie. He won't be bought. He may fail at everything he does but he'll fail for me and he'll fail trying. For what it's worth I believe he can get some things passed. If for no other reason than to shut the serfs up.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... been many examples of virtually nobodies leading great change in this country multiple times.
Lets take his own state VT and SP, he wasn't an unknown there...
I don't remember him mobilizing enough people to change the dynamics towards SP there in his own state...
draa
(975 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,615 posts)You had Debbie Wasserman Schultz singing people to sleep, telling people she had the situation well in hand. As much as Bernie can be brilliant, he has one thing going for him now that he never did, the fact that the DLC has shown themselves to be so incompetent that they no long have the benefit of the doubt, which means all it takes are a few people to say the emperor is naked for people to look. Meanwhile, Debbie was making candidates like Alison Blunders and Crimes that ran against the Obama Legacy.
In short, people would not have paid attention to Bernie until the car already started rolling off the cliff, while DWS would just keep saying "this is perfectly fine!"
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)...sidelines and do relatively little to nothing in the area of mobilizing people to influence congress.
DWS wasn't even leader of DNC till 2010...where was Sanders before then?!!
where was this revolting when single payer needed to be passed?!
BainsBane
(53,003 posts)jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Obvious point 1: You can look up Senator Sanders' records of legislative proposals, public statements, etc. just as easy as anyone could, if this were a genuine question and not flame bait.
Obvious point 2: It's not 2014. Moving ahead to the present is an option for you and anyone else.
Obvious point 3: You could ask these same questions of any Democrat in 2014.
EPIC FAIL Op
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... people like he says he does then where was this willingness to mobilize in 09 in the heat of ACA?!
jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Or post content-free flamebait on the internet. No time wasted in doing actual research - just provide fake answers to dishonest questions. Wheee!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... where was this revolution or the person to mobilize it to get Obama's agenda passed a reluctant congress?
This is what we're being promised from Sanders now; he has the ability to mobilize...
jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Raising money in Philadelphia from big contributors. Seeking support from black community leaders, since it's black voters that are the only remaining core constituency where she has an advantage. No more "hardworking Americans, white Americans," she's not running against a black man this campaign!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... going to Philly then so be it.
Sanders is lauding himself as different morally and as a leader ... the latter is the subject of this thread, where was this revolution or Sanders back when Obama was trying to get his agenda passed congress!?!?
It was non existent and Sanders can't lead a damn thing or he would've done it in his own state when single payer came up...
This is VT!!1
VT!!!
Sanders doesn't have a track record or mobilizing revolution or even people recently...
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Can there be any more of a weak argument before jumping off a cliff?
TheBlackAdder
(28,076 posts)Kall
(615 posts)Senator Bernie Sanders was the problem. Not the Democratic Party as a whole doing their best not to stand for anything, under the leadership of Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And over taken with right-wing poison like it is now
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)The Unhingery!
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Democrats in the Senate misreading the situation ran away from Obama. That's how I read it.
cali
(114,904 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)well. Obviously it is bottomless.
Vinca
(50,172 posts)democrank
(11,052 posts)Take off your rose-colored Hillary glasses, then click on a few of the Bernie threads here. Many even have photos. Photos with lots of people. Enthusiastic people.
It takes a while to fight through the barricades set up by the Corporate Wing of the Democratic Party and the matching barricades by the Corporate Wing of the Republican Party. Not to mention Corporate Media. The little people, the ones that can`t afford to pay for $250,000.00 speeches, have to struggle to get the word out.
Just sit back and watch. Whether he gets the nomination or not, Bernie Sanders and his followers have already won.
R B Garr
(16,920 posts)him did he dip his toes in to see how he might benefit. He's had literally decades to start his 'revolution, but he never bothered, instead letting others like Bill Clinton and Obama do the heavy lifting of breaking down barriers that he couldn't be bothered with.
Now that he can use the Democratic party apparatus for his benefit, he shows up to take only what's useful for him while threatening lawsuits and general mayhem. How anyone is fooled by his gimmicks is beyond me.