2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNational security law expert on Clinton email issue: "not uncommon" and legal charges very unlikely.
From Christian Science Monitor..
"This is an area where the government tends not to test the margins too often," Vladeck said.
It's not uncommon for workers with access to classified material to mishandle it, and by far the bulk of those cases don't attract the attention of federal prosecutors.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0130/Were-Clinton-top-secret-emails-illegal-What-history-tells-us-about-such-cases
As I said many times before this is much ado about nothing. I know the Bernie supporters and the RWingers would love this to be a bigger story but it simply is not.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)This is all about politics...
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I would expect it from the Republicans but its a bit shocking to hear the same from those who also consider themselves Democrats.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)If you follow the story, most Republican prosecutors and former prosecutors believe Hillary should be in the dock and most Democratic prosecutors and former prosecutors believe she did nothing illegal.
Chris Christie is on CNN talking about it now as we speak.
randys1
(16,286 posts)for some of his supporters.
This supporter thinks anyone who pushes this story has an agenda.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)THe Right-wing propaganda machine will beat a dead horse until it works for them.
The only question is - when will they start.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Not much of a slogan.
Besides, we all know the Republican House will launch it's own investigation and release a report full of lies just before the General if Hillary is the nominee.
It would be great if the truth ruled all, it doesn't. She should have known better than to use a private server, she didn't.
One more example of her terrible judgement.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Hillary is one tough lady and will make a tremendous President.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)No fly zone in Syria
Marriage a sacred bond between a man and a woman
19 minute speech trying to convince other Senators to vote in favor of the Iraq war with her
Failed to pass health care reform as first lady
Support for NAFTA
Support for Welfare Reform
The list goes on and on. Yes, once the polls show that a majority of Americans disagree with her she will flip and get on the right side of things. That is far to late. If elected she will continue to make terrible mistakes and be a terrible President. Then we will lose badly in 2020 and the (R)s will be able to gain power in state governments and gerrymander districts in their favor, again.
Hillary should not be our nominee. Tough isn't good enough.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)The bottom line to me is that she is probably the most experienced and intelligent person to ever run for President.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)The Iraq war has no right or wrong answer?
Sorry, I disagree.
No way the person who did those things is even close to being the most experienced or intelligent to ever run for President.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I dont have time at the moment to discuss them all and I am sure it wouldn't change your mind anyway. Im just stating how I feel and how many others who support Hillary feel.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)If elected there is the real possibility that she would be a terrible President.
Try to list some hard decisions that she was right about. Good luck with that.
Woman's rights and health care for children are not hard choices. Of course she got those right, any reasonable person would.
She seems to always get the tougher ones wrong. Always.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Good luck with that.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)or they would not have survived.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Surely you have time for that!
Or can't it be done?
She had 4 years as Sec. of State, where Pres. Obama was making the decisions and only 8 years as a Senator when she could have actually been making some decisions.
That 40 years of experience making decisions is a unicorn.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Not sure if she was the one who made all the final decisions but she surely played the key role in developing and implementing sanctions against Iran during her time as SOS which ultimately led to the nuclear agreement after she left. That will likely be President Obama's greatest legacy which will be shared by both SOS's Clinton and Kerry.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)She had no decision making role in that process.
Yes, she handled the tasks assigned to her well. I would never argue against that, but she has trouble making good decisions.
Let me give you an example of one call she did get right. Unfortunately she flipped on it, apparently because of a lack of integrity.
Now lets try to find one that she actually got right and kept with it. Again, good luck with that.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)As SOS she should have been.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)That large a policy decision is not made at the Cabinet level.
Besides, we don't know if she was even in favor of it or not. Only that Pres. Obama made the right call.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Tens of thousands more dead for nothing.
enid602
(8,615 posts)Why is reinstatement of welfare (Aid For Families with Dependents) not on Bernie's wish list? His supporters always bring up Bill Clinton's signing the Welfare Reform Bill (even though he did not have the support to veto it), but fall short of calling for its reinstatement.
oasis
(49,379 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)to save the General election for us.
Not only Hillary, but all (D)s on the ticket will be hurt by it.
oasis
(49,379 posts)will have the reverse effect.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Just a reminder.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Why? Because there is none.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)It began with Benghazi.
awake
(3,226 posts)Hillary is not the victim of anyone else but her own actions.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)And then there's the emails.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)I'm not advocating she be thrown in jail, just that it's just one more in a series of poor decisions by her.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I suspect every SOS has done similar things.
KeepItReal
(7,769 posts)She had a secure, government-provided email account standing by.
She chose not to use the Department of State email account provisioned.
The only situation she was in was created by her decision to comingle a personal email account with official State Department (and any other official business) emails.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)She has admitted that. I dont really hold that against her. I think she was just trying to keep it simple and keep it under her control. I might have done the same in her situation.
KeepItReal
(7,769 posts)Only contractors may have scenarios where they could use their original company email addresses, but most clients will insist on contractors using a client-provided email account for work-related messages. Emails between 2 different domains/companies are *NOT* secure unless person-to-person encryption is used.
For an Executive to *not* use company or organization-administered email for work-related communications is extremely unusual. Folks lower in the food chain would not even think of going off standard-issue organization email.
Wanting to go off-script in terms of hardware is more common, though (like President Obama insisting on his Blackberry - and even POTUS wet through channels to keep it secure)
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Things have changed now but back then it was allowed.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)What bullshit. "Everyone does it!"
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)so he can blow wide open the immoral shit your county's been doing, then you're just a traitor and deserve to be hung
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)This investigation is a ripe plum on a low branch, ready for anyone to pick. And there are people lined up to pick this one.
There's no criminal there there. None.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)investigation is merely "low hanging fruit", you must define the tree from which the fruit originates.
IMO - it is the tree of "questionable" (and perhaps "illegal" activities about which we speak. And please note that this fruit did not grow on it's own - it was not placed there by wingers; no, this fruit is of Hillary's own cultivation, it's there by her own hand.
Criminal? I don't know - time may tell.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)It's the Clinton way.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Those who are perfect may cast stones.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)I really hope there is nothing to this email stuff...because if she is the nominee, I don't want her pulling us over a cliff with her because it turns out to be a problem.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)But its clear to me his overall opinion is that this is much ado about nothing.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)This is an FBI investigation. I just worry that we will get screwed down the road because she gets in trouble. (And I honestly don't want that to happen.)
DCBob
(24,689 posts)and they still have not found anything of illegal significance.. why? Because there is nothing there.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Some people seem so punitive they want criminal charges for every little mishap. It's reminiscent of right wingers. The world is just not a perfect place and the things that go awry are not always at the level of criminal. It's the black and white mindset.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)It unfortunate and unfair Hilary has to deal with all this crap but that's politics.
treestar
(82,383 posts)If it's just an ordinary civil matter, it's not dramatic enough.
6chars
(3,967 posts)Proud Liberal Dem
(24,412 posts)Republicans don't want to face her and some left-wingers REALLY don't want her to be the nominee and have to vote for her. Both groups want to see her washed out of the race. So far, both groups, despite some titilating headlines, aren't getting what they want.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,959 posts)But that won't stop Republicans going after her in a General Election. I think her judgment makes her much more vulnerable in the general than the Red baiting that Bernie will face. Bernie has a reputation of integrity that pushes back a lot of noise. Hillary has a reputation of dishonesty that encourages noise.
Not saying that dishonesty mantle is valid. But it sure makes her less electable in a general to me.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Bernie? Not so sure.
Nanjeanne
(4,959 posts)After all he has been in many more elections than Hillary and done quite well.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Running for office in Vermont does not prepare one for running for President.
Nanjeanne
(4,959 posts)I will pass it along to all the Governers who run for President. Because being the Governer of Arkasas gave Bill LOTS of experience. And of course Obama was a Senator for some years from Illinois so no wonder Hillary went after him too. Me? I think both Obama and Sanders have way better judgement than Hillary. But that's what makes politics so interesting. All these pronouncements that have been proven wrong so many times.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Which makes it one of the most unrepresentative states in the country.. which backs up my initial claims.
It's the Bernie can't get POC meme.
Thanks! I'll just fold my chair up and go home now. Hillary's got it in the bag, doncha know. As Carville said in his recent email to Clinton supporters (yes I get them since I gave money long ago to the DNC) - she's the most qualified maybe since George Washington!
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Its clear Bernie has a problem connecting with non-white voters. That's a problem for any candidate running in a general election.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)- though we did visit the Ozark area in Missouri/Arkansas -- which incidentally was the ONLY state my extended family ever had our annual reunion in where the immediate (and long term) conclusion was not to ever even consider returning. (Not so, Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, WA, OR, CA, NC, AZ, KY, MI ...) This was not one person -- but the unanimous view of the then about 20 adults.)
Vermont, on the other hand, was what we wanted. Not just the beauty and the many things we wanted to do, but the genuine decency and sense of community. I have never seen any place where as high a percent of the community actually engages in the political discourse and where so much that makes the town good is done by volunteers. I have always lived in smaller towns than Burlington - whether in Indiana or NJ -- but in none was it even remotely respected that people have access to elected officials. Burlington may have 42,000 people, but everyone knows they can get face time with the mayor. In our part of town, he regularly comes to a bagel place from 8 to 9 every Wednesday morning and anyone can ask him anything.
Of course, VT is not a typical state -- but, Thank God, neither is Arkansas. Where VT ranks very high on nearly every quality of life measurement, Arkansas is near the bottom. I remember when Bill Clinton ran in 1992 - he touted what they did on education - but Arkansas was in the bottom 10 (and I think bottom 5) states - and this was after all he and Hillary did - and they tried very very hard. Arkansas was among the worst on environmental issues - notably that they allowed a major chicken producer to contaminate the rivers in part of the state. Bill Clinton was NOT elected for what he accomplished in Arkansas, but his words and his charisma against at least some 2016 HRC like opponents who knew they had the better resume.
Bernie was mayor of Burlington at a key time - the fact is that starting when he was in office Burlington became a better place to live and work - not just for some - but for most of the community. Yes, VT is not that diverse, but mostly white Chittendon country (where Burlington is) applied to be a refugee resettlement area in the late 1980s - and that continues until today. The community has worked hard to absorb these people and help them create productive lives. That means that it is not unusual as you walk or bike around town that you see people from Somalia, wearing long dresses and veils .. or people from Nepal, many traditionally dressed etc.
My husband and I volunteered a couple of hours a week in a first grade class. About a fourth of the kids were either POC, mostly refugees. The teacher was incredible in handling the diversity and from our observation, the kids did not self segregate. (The school used volunteers to allow more one on one work with kids where needed, including many doing quite well but having no parent they could read to because they had the best English in the family.)
All I know is that Bernie could use photos of Burlington before he was mayor ... contrasted to photos as he left and argue that he wants to do for America what he did for Burlington. Note Bill Clinton did not even try that --- running instead on the hope that he and his personal story personified.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)The email server announcements have all been timed with important moments in Hillarys run at the White House.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)Yesterday was the last working day of January. Not to mention, the SD has only part of this last batch ready, so they couldn't have put them out - say 2 weeks ago.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)The quote rejects the idea that she will be indicted. However, the CW for months is that she will not be indicted, but that her actions showed the HRC perchance for secrecy and considering that rules were for others. Fair or not, those are negative memes that existed before this that are validated by this.
Your quote addresses the strawman, which few here fear will happen. You did not touch how this impacts how HRC is seen -- even though their is ample polling to suggest that she has been hurt by this - in terms of honesty and trustworthiness.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)For most, if there was actually something there it would have been found by now.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)I disagree that they have dismissed it as nothing happened.
They likely have rejected it as something that would change their vote. In that way, she is very lucky that she does not have an opponent who could be said to have - for the most part - a similar platform - as was true for Obama and Edwards.
In the general election, that will be more stark. I assume that there will be many facing a less drastic version of what we in NJ thought we had to face in 2002. I know that I and many others had realized that we would vote for the ethically impaired Toricelli over his right wing Republican opponent (Forrest?). I think that - if the party had not pushed him to resign allowing them to replace him with the wonderful Lautenberg - Toricelli would have been reelected because we would be voting for someone to cast votes in line with the Democrats and because it was thought that we could determine control of the Senate.
Now, I don't think Clinton is as ethically problematic as Torricelli, but I could list many many politicians I think are cleaner - starting with Sanders and Obama.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)and nothing of substance will be found and no charges will be made, most voters will see her as the innocent victim and the Republicans as the vicious attackers.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)pandr32
(11,581 posts)It comes right on the heels of that Benghazi movie, too. So many millions spent, not to mention valuable time and energy, trying to tear down the most qualified candidate on the American political landscape. Why? Certainly not because she has "ties to Wall Street" or "was for the TPP" before she wasn't. That is just part of the rhetorical package of well-funded smear.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The emails came up in the Benghazi hearings, the changes of email use started in the Obama administration.
SickOfTheOnePct
(7,290 posts)but I'm betting that whomever was sending the classified email will be charged.
Her out is that it wasn't marked "classified", so she can credibly say that she didn't realize she had classified info on an unclassified system.
But the person/people sending it? They knew it was classified and sent it anyway.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)she is very well connected. If she were private clinton, that would be a different story.
But hey, whatever.
I agree, there will be zero charges and no, I am not saying this because I favor one candidate over the other,. I am saying this because if you are a member of the establishment and rich, and white, your chances of facing charges are minimized by orders of magnitude, no matter what you do.
This is the reality of the judicial system in the United States right now. Just go ask people at the hood about that.
Gothmog
(145,152 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Its an ugly symbiotic relationship of those that benefit.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)The party would nominate Biden.