2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary supporters who are shredding Bernie had no complaints about Bernie and were...
Last edited Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)
...completely enamored of him while he was caucusing with Democrats for decades and when he challenged the right wingnuts with his marathon filibuster. You LOVED him!
Why are you now stabbing him in the back after all he has done to support your beliefs and values all these years? You LOVED him right up until he challenged Hillary. Then you turned your backs on him.
(Edited to make less all-inclusive as this does not apply to "every single" Hillary supporter.)
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Did you have a complaint about Clinton when she was on Sanders' side?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...table from them planning and strategizing Bill's second run at governor of Arkansas. I had compaints during his governorship and both presidential terms. I've had complaints about Hillary going all the way back to my high school days. And still I voted for Bill all the way along. Hillary lost my vote when she sided with the filthy lying U.S. troops and innocent brown people -killing NEOCONS to invade the WRONG COUNTRY that cost countless lives.
She has NO CHANCE of getting ANYTHING done with a Congress THAT HATES HER MORE THAN THEY DO BARACK OBAMA.
Get that straight through your head, Hoyt.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)accept that. Did you support Kerry, who also voted to give george war bush authority to invade Iraq, IF NEEDED?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...that time.
Since he became the Dem nominee, I would have voted for him (ETA: Actually, I did vote for him, I always vote and I always vote straight ticket, even when I'm not paying much attention.), just as I will do for Hillary if she is our nominee this year.
conventional wisdom.
merrily
(45,251 posts)EC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.
okasha
(11,573 posts)File tirades under "Personal Vendettas."
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...the part where I've been a Clinton fan since I'm in high school and have worked/volunteered on their behalf? I will vote for her if she is our nominee and have said as much: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511067386
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)the Clinton's that long, yet you continued to sit across the table from them and support them. I think it says more about YOU than it says about them.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)ypsfonos
(144 posts)certainly won't help those who have been disenfranchised by trickle-down
economics which she is completely in favor of.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)head?
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... if the House and Senate remain under Republican control, NO Democrat will get much done. And I hate to break it to you, but conservative hatred of Hillary, justified or not, will make doubly - no, make that FOUR-PLY! - difficult for her to get anything done.
Guess we'll both just have to wait and see.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Unfairly for sure, but it'll scare a lot of white folks including so-called independents.
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... just like they hate every Liberal, and like I hate every conservative. I was making particular reference to the deep antipathy that conservatives seem to have toward the Clintons that goes back nearly a quarter of a century.
I've got a lot more years behind me than I have in front of me, and I can remember a time when it was possible to agree to disagree and still be friends with a Republican. Those days are no more.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)to disagree and still be friends with a Republican."
You're right. I had friends that were republican and we got along just fine. But then The Fairness Doctrine was eliminated and we had Rush Lamebrain, Fox, Beck, and all the other nuts spewing hate nonstop about anything Democratic, liberal and progressive. As a result of those hate-mongering idiots, my republican ex-friends became stark raving mad conservative blathering lunatics.
Flying Phoenix
(114 posts)Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)Or as some fans call him, Stevie Rave On.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Help me out here.
What are those mysterious and vague "things" you believe Hillary can get done?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)Pie in the Sky, wishful, Rainbows and Unicorns, non-reality based thinking.
Please Proceed.
At least Bernie is leading a MOVEMENT,
a MOVEMENT that won't go away, win or lose this election.
This really isn't about Bernie. It is about the 99% who got stiffed by the so called "recovery" and Free Trade.
What is Hillary leading?
I don't see very many people marching for "No. We. Can't".
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I think Clinton will come closer to delivering, plus she can win the GE.
merrily
(45,251 posts)whether you hated Sanders before he decided to run for POTUS?
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)POTUS. I will vote for him if he is the nominee though.
And it's a bit silly to tell people they are stabbing someone in the back just because they prefer another candidate.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)it is an issue I care a great deal about and his votes against the Brady bill and his vote for immunity for gun manufacturers were bad then and bad in retrospect. Otherwise, I had no real problem with him to be fair.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)Who did not
It is called perspective
dsc
(52,147 posts)that is my perspective.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)the trillions of dollars spent on the wars is lost forever - that money could have be put toward changing our society - changes that would have reduced the number of deaths
Many are suicides - money for mental health
poverty
education
hopelessness
violence
I support gun control - but I am no so stupid as to think that guns are the heart of the issue
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Iraqi and Afghans lives don't matter. Nor does it seem you care about the wounded both physically and mentally.
Otherwise there is not much of a comparison.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)and she seems to want more wars and enemy's. You'd think with all that experience she'd know they best way to protect american interests is to stop starting wars.
840high
(17,196 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We have to change our culture.
More important than the Brady bill is teaching people non-violent communication techniques starting in grade school.
Here are excellent resources on this topic.
http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/aboutnvc/4partprocess.htm
I am not financially related or otherwise a part of the organization that sponsors this program, but I did take a one-day course in it, and I highly recommend it.
Nonviolent communication should be a part of our public school curriculum. Everywhere in America and maybe around the world.
dsc
(52,147 posts)no wait you can't they're dead, from a gun Roof got because they had to sell it to him despite the fact his info hadn't come back yet. Had the Brady Bill passed in the form we wanted (with a 7 day waiting period) Roof would have been denied that gun.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)them through some other means, stealing if necessary.
It's OK to pass the Brady bill, but it won't shut the door on mass shootings or the use of guns for revenge or just because . . . .
We need a massive movement for peaceful, non-violent communication.
That way, the Dylan Roofs, the people who are both angry and crazy, will be more noticeable, easier to spot and easier to deal with. Dylan Roof should have been institutionalized before he went completely crazy. Same for almost all, maybe in fact all of the serial killers we deal with.
But there are so many angry people in America and so many people who express anger in such frustrating and unproductive ways that the Dylan Roofs are hardly noticed.
We need to learn to communicate in general without violence.
Look at the number of DUers who lose their cool and get asked to stay away from DU. Many of them are really good people. That should not happen on a liberal political website. We should be able to discuss things without anger and especially without personal attacks. But most Americans don't know how to do that. They don't know the difference between jabs, verbal jabs that hurt others and escalate anger and problem solving with words that build trust, confidence in oneself and the other and communication.
That's sad.
I do not oppose the Brady Bill. It will improve things a little. But the real, deep, serious problem is that we do not converse or communicate with each other in a non-violent way.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)Estimates say half a million innocent Iraqi civilians lost their lives in the Iraq war.
That's half a MILLION. With an "M".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)no americans have died because of legislation that Sanders supported.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... over the years
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)seven day waiting period.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Try again, I've been told there are tens of thousands.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)it was supposed to have a seven day waiting period, instead it was cut down to three with it going to zero at the behest of people like Sanders. His vote is directly responsible for those deaths in Charleston. They had to sell that gun because they couldn't get the information back in time.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... did NOT pass as some have said upthread.
hmmm
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)It has been reported over and over again, that Roof got his gun because after the 3 day period it was still inconclusive and thus he had to get the gun. A 7 day period would have picked up his record and he wouldn't have gotten his gun.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You can't speculate about what might or might not have happened based on a those votes.
It's not directly related to his votes the way the Iraqi deaths are related to Hillary's vote.
dsc
(52,147 posts)and thus Hillary is off the hook? The simple fact is he got a gun that he wasn't supposed to get, that he wouldn't have gotten but for the shorter waiting period that your candidate insisted we have.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She should have known better than to trust Bush, Bernie did.
dsc
(52,147 posts)is that your point?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)He went to war with her blessing.
dsc
(52,147 posts)you can't have it both ways. Either legislation matters or it doesn't.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)dsc
(52,147 posts)he got the fucking gun and he killed the people. A gun he got for one, and one reason only. We weren't permitted to deny him the gun thanks to the weakening of the Brady bill at the behest of Bernie and others like him.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Face it the problem isn't just waiting periods, it's the availability of guns on the street.
Jesus Christ, I can get in my car, drive into the city and find someone to sell me a gun now, illegally. I can break into a house and steal one or I can get one from a family member or friend.
We don't know for sure what Dylan would have done if he had been turned down, that's why it's speculation.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... its been preempted
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)How many of those are directly linked to his votes?
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... come from left field and then you bow out when cornered.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)She voted for it, promoted it and endorsed the invasion so they are a result of Hillary's actions.
Now how many of those tens of thousands of gun deaths are a result of Bernie's votes?
You wanted to compare the death toll go ahead.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... gets injected into peoples postings and intentions.
Bottom line, Sanders votes help shape the shit hole where we're at with guns in this country right now and that's bad enough
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Agony
(2,605 posts)you are entitled to your erroneous opinion however
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... at right now in this country with guns.
That's not a fact that's in dispute
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Let's compare the death toll, proceed.
dsc
(52,147 posts)waiting period that its sponsors wanted. BTW no one died from Hillary's vote either since Bush went to war in contravention of what that vote said (he didn't wait for the UN like the vote said he would)
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... from his bag of bad himself.
That's the more griinding thing I find with the argument for Sanders, "he's slightly better!!" isn't enough for me
riversedge
(70,047 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)We'd now be hearing about how he doesn't support our troops.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Some even blame him for the Iraq war because he voted to support them.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)neverforget
(9,436 posts)Have some perspective.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)The issue is not a simple one.
MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)Is to limit the stranglehold the NRA has over our elected officials. The gun lobby and all corporate lobbies control and even write the majority of legistlation that comes before Congress.
This is the single most important issue that all Americans should be fighting for. Until then, we are not a country of, by, and for the people, but one of, by, and or the corporations.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)how closely people from other states than Vermont tracked on Sanders. Enamoured? He fillabustered. Other senators have too. Caucusing with doesn't hide or negate the scorning he engaged in. Not everyone is enamoured and that is their choice and right.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)stabbed in the back after backing Democratic policies for decades. This is how Hillary supporters turn their backs on a good man they considered a friend and whom they admired.
You can't tell me I don't know what I saw here. Hell, I'd bet a search of DU2 would reveal that you thought very highly of him too. I'd bet money on it.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)You support him for President. Others support someone else. There are many goood people who have been in pulblic service over the years, including Sanders. Electing to support a candidate that you don't is not an afront to your candidate requiring pistols on the meadow at high noon to satisfy honor. There are simply people who don't agree with your choice. In case you haven't noticed, Republicans are making choices too.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...(how dismissive of you, btw)...
Not only have they turned their backs on this good man, they are violently stabbing him in the back.
End. Of. Story.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Who is "they"? We also have two Democrats besides him who are running. Have you noticed?
tasgator
(8 posts)Bernie will make all corporations behave ethically and in the best interest of all humanity and Republicans will lie down with the lambs and magic ponies will produce unlimited skittles from their behinds. If you don't believe this then you are a sell-out corporatist hack. Oh, and if you support Hillary because you honestly believe she is a better candidate who will actually get more things done that are in the country's best interest you are the same.
mythology
(9,527 posts)than being disdainfully dismissed, people might not treat it that way. You are using really over the top hyperbole and then criticizing people for remarking on that.
You presume some sort of betrayal, rather than honest disagreement.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)Sorry, but that is a complete break with reality. No one here has perpetrated violence against the Senator. No one has "stabbed him in the back." The fact that he caucused and voted with Senatorial Democrats does not automatically qualify him to be President, any more than it qualified, say, Harry Reid.
Step back and get some perspective.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Your own lying eyes? Or the people campaigning for the candidate well known for using every dirty trick in the book and then some and when MOST people are asked what the first word that comes to mind when they think of her, is liar?
Get with the program CTDem, Bernie has made the wheels fall off The Coronation Express and as such he MUST be the source of all evil.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)It's all about team wins for the DLC. Power over the people, not service to the people.
Response to Skidmore (Reply #5)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Take it up with him.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Just like Obama, until they got in the way.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm not surprised.
Disgusted but not surprised.
Hekate
(90,538 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Sanders was a DARLING here. And so was Obama!!1one
I don't think many here had an opinion on Sanders either way until last year but the opinion on Obama was inescapable. I guess we're all just supposed to pretend that we never saw the 74 thousand and 12 posts where he was called a "lightweight lying con man" a "piece of shit used car salesman," an "empty suit" and a "corporatist" and where people accused him of everything from sicing Homeland Security on Occupy to giving the H1N1 vaccine to Wall Street first because they were "his people".
Never mind that an ACTUAL DU darling was well known and repeatedly applauded for saying that the 2008 presidential election was the ONE election in this country's history he wanted to see overturned.
It's good to know that if I'm hallucinating that you, one of the smartest DUers here, saw the same thing. At least I'm in very smart company.
Hekate
(90,538 posts)emulatorloo
(44,057 posts)I remember it all too, no matter what the revisionists now loudly claim. DU has turned into the Internet version of Hitchcock's Gaslight.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)He was useful as another vote to elect Harry Reid as Majority leader. So, from a political viewpoint, I saw him as a handy tool for the Democratic Party. This doesn't mean I didn't have disagreements with his policy positions. For example, I didn't like his gun positions then and I stll don't like it now.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...a-ok with you?
Wow.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Her vote created the group she calls the biggest threat "ISIL".
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Which ones were caused by which vote?
Tia!
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)It's hard for me to keep up. .
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Your message doesn't make sense.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)the exception of guns, atheist, (ex-Christian and Muslim).
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Going to the range is stress relieving and flat out fun. I don't hunt animals (vegan).
I love guns, rock climbing, snowboarding, racing bikes and cars, and skydiving.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)other Ministers whom were jealous of him.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I can't wait to see the jury results, should be 7-0.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)Scouts honor.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Knock it off.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe you should check those sources next time before you post a smear about Bernie's family.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Because mine weren't for anything as bad as that.
If you're trying to bait and alert me into another one, good luck, I'll just remind the jury that you made it personal first.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)elias49
(4,259 posts)You're serious? That's all it takes?
Welcome to bedlam.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Or do you just accept and LIKE that she flip flops ALL THE TIME! And that you don't mind when she switches on issues so much as she must mean something for some other reason for you. Since you just see Bernie as a "tool for the party" before, it sounds like you only care about power and sucking up to those who are powerful so that you can share their power with them. And I suppose you think that is what the Democratic Party is all about and why you like it, even if they sell themselves to those who believe that the traditional beliefs of this party are the OPPOSITE of that!
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)There were many good candidates. You know the old...keep your enemies close?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)You can moan CT as long as you want. What else was she to do with her highly focused political career but keep the PUMAs in place and keep it up?
He certainly did not need a House and Senate and former and very ugly campaigning foe trying to upend his second term. And anyone who thinks any differently just wasn't there.
CT, right.
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)don't impress me much.
Carry on.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You support her former position on guns?
ProudToBeLiberal
(3,964 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)livetohike
(22,118 posts)major topic here at DU until he started appearing on the Ed Schultz show regularly. Perhaps in the VT forum .
Lorien
(31,935 posts)He was a regular on Bill Moyers shows and was often talked about, along with Paul Wellstone and Dennis Kucinich, as some of the last honest public servants in Washington.
livetohike
(22,118 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...VT forum, but right here in GD.
There was a bit of a stir for a very small group about his gun manufacturer vote. But over all, he's ALWAYS been a favorite on DU, as far back as I started reading DU in 2005. Hell, DU is how I came to know of Bernie Sanders.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Lorien
(31,935 posts)team colors and labels matter more than the issues to some votes. Their personal identities are entwined with the "team", and Hillary, to them, is more of an "official" team member than Bernie is. If they really supported the idea of more wars, fracking, GMOs, Walmart business practices, NAFTA and the TPP, for profit prisons, rejecting single payer, rejecting once standard free public university educations, while embracing high interest rates, Wall Street corruption, etc. they wouldn't be members of the Democratic Party. It's like when half a football teams members are embroiled in criminal activity; that still won't dissuade a lifetime fan from supporting anyone else.
Hekate
(90,538 posts)What a silly statement.
There is no "backstabbing" of this candidate who has decided to piggyback his campaign onto a Democratic Party infrastructure that he has spent 50 years denigrating. Tell me how stating this truth is "backstabbing," because I have no sympathy.
Also tell us, please, how thumbing your nose at the rest of us (i.e. the lifelong members of the Democratic Party) will make us eager to support the Holy Gadfly?
If he is doing so overwhelmingly well, in such a YUUUUGE fashion, why even bother with attacking those who are not yet convinced?
Silly.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)If that doesn't describe you, then I can see why you're confused. The rest of us have long been aware of who Bernie Sanders is. You should read about him.
Hekate
(90,538 posts)Believe me, I am not confused. I was certainly aware that the Gadfly Senator from Vermont deigned to caucus with the Democrats, but I was neither confused nor amused about where his loyalties lay. "Enamored" hardly describes it.
I initially welcomed his entrance into this race because I thought he had ideas that needed to be heard, but the behavior of his online supporters has been... well, let's just say it has been well-documented elsewhere and is on display hourly at DU. Not the way to win people over.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Also, enough with the intellectual dishonesty. I reject these ridiculous notions of large numbers of people initially liking Sanders but turning away from him because of mean people on the Internet. This was always a ludicrous claim, and I'm throwing it right back at the people who use this dishonest tactic.
Hekate
(90,538 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Then apply your last statement.
Makes just as much sense.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Most Democrats like all three candidates.
How have I stabbed him in the back? I'm just voting for a different candidate.
jfern
(5,204 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)Compare it to Carter/Kennedy, Hart/Mondale, Gephardt/Dukakis/Gore, Clinton/Tsongas/Brown, Gore/Bradley, Clinton/Obama. I just don't see how this campaign has ever gotten anywhere as close to negative.
I am very proud of all three of our candidates. And I would be proud to support any one of them for president.
BigGLiberal
(102 posts)I haven't liked him since he voted against the Brady Bill and I don't support candidates who vote with Rand Paul.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)I have never been enamored, impressed or have really given a hoot about Sanders. I have never really cared for him period. So please take me out of the "Not a single one of you Hillary supporters" broad brush please. And try not to tell more lies about me.
Thank you.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...getting a hide.
You have removed yourself. I am specifically referring to those rabid Hillary supporters who are attempting to shred Bernie to bits simple for daring to run for president. They know who they are. And those of you for whom this does not apply, are not the ones attempting to tear Bernie to shreds after all he's done for our party.
I will consider re-wording my title.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)That's how they came to oppose Wall Street Reform and Medicare For All.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Like I owe him anything. I never had a vote in his election so I don't care. And if he wasn't there, a real Democrat would be. So it's a stupid question. What? Vermont's going to elect a Republican senator?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)That's one of the good things about the edit button.
brewens
(13,536 posts)this election! No matter what!
Cary
(11,746 posts)Have you ever heard of self actualization? Perhaps you should worry less about what you think others may be thinking of you, and put a little more effort into better manners and some common decency?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)kjones
(1,053 posts)I know "oligarchy! 1%!"
That's bull.
Hillary and Bernie have both made mistakes (Bernie's gun votes
being a sticking point for me), both have done far more good
for all of us than bad. So why the cold shoulder?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...surprised she's been as tame versus Bernie as she has been. And I, for one, appreciate that.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Let's go back a little further when Hillary sat on the board of Walmart and talk about that. Another "mistake"?
Cary
(11,746 posts)Do you people never tire of this insipid game, trying to change the subject to me personally? Do you think you score points, displaying the emotional maturity of a 12 year old?
This is the exact same tactics I encounter from Ann Rand cultists.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...personal attacks considered adult behavior?
Cary
(11,746 posts)When one makes it personal instead of discussing the issue at hand they're being stupid. Period.
If you want to be an apologist for stupidity, that's up to you of course. But really you ought to grow up.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)I clearly addressed your comment.
You need to learn the difference, but I doubt you will.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)Leopards don't change their spots.
kydo
(2,679 posts)Wished I had that. Come in handy when picking football games and talking to the hubby... but alas I am not as cool as you, the all knowing ChisolmTrailDem. Do you want us to bow before your greatness too?
But your gene isn't that good as your statement about every single HRC supporter not having a single complaint about Sanders and being completely enamored blah blah. Well, how do you know if I didn't have issues with the bern guy? I did, his gun control voting was not what I would have hoped for, for one. And there were more and this was before he officially entered the primaries.
If he wins the nomination he will have tons of enemies. They all have little r's after their names. Plus all the hate media will be zooming their targets so fast on his back you would think they the bern killed their cat and took their candy away.
Right now repugs like the bern because they not only hate HRC but they are scared of her. So of course the right will talk up bernie right now. After March they won't. He will either be the nominee or back in the senate and free to lay all their hate on.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...it's all right there on your computer screen, posted to a message board, over a decade's worth. There has never been hate for Bernie (indeed, he has been a hero here) on this board, like there is now. That is my point. He has been a friend to Democrats throughout the history of this website and there has never been an opposing uproar against Bernie. Until he decided to run for president.
Whatever else you said, I didn't see.
kydo
(2,679 posts)Besides there is nothing on my computer screen posted to a message board over the last ten years that says other wise. Did you go through all my posts to see? Probably not. And just because I may not have said mean things about Sanders or posted in ten years where I might disagree with him is a mute point, as i don't always comment on everything whether I agree or disagree. I barely post. I don't even have 2000 posts and yet I have been here for 10 years, go figure. Mostly I lurk, so I probably would not have posted if I disagree with people.
Just saying....
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...always been a friend to Democrats but he has also been his own man, with his own ideas and I respect that. He also transformed an American city into one of the most, if not the most, livable places in this nation.
The wrath that has fallen down upon Bernie is solely because he chose to dare to run for president. I edited my OP a while ago after another poster pointed out that I could not count him/her in my (admittedly, worded as such) all-inclusive statement to be more specific. That edit applies for you as well.
kydo
(2,679 posts)No wrath has befallen down upon him solely because he chose to dare to run for president that has not happened to anyone that chooses to run for this office. It's par for the course. If you have a problem with different points of view maybe you need to grow some tougher skin. Because if you think he is being unfairly treated now just wait and see how badly he gets attacked if he actaully wins the nominee. See how the right treats HRC, and Obama, that will be the treatment he gets and then some as he will be the sole target for their hate.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)kydo
(2,679 posts)You sure have no trouble treating other candidates much worse. Cause let me explain it too you, at least from my point of view. I have no personal hate for your candidate. Many of his supporters not so much. Why you peeps need to sound like the right wing and hurl insults?
In a much simpler form, you and people like you are making me like Mr Sanders less and less. Bernie is not a knight in shiny gold awesome armour riding on a white horse farting unicorns and rainbows. And Hillary is not the big bad witch from the north coming to kill your babies, take your money, strip your land, and kick your dog. Nor does she shoot lasers from her eyes and fire from her mouth. The truth is both are more in the middle and closer then anyone wants to admit.
So please stop with your holier then thou attitude. You shit on a toilet like the rest of us and it stinks just as bad.
So lets agree to disagree with out insulting each other and our candidates. You are not going to change my mind and I will not change yours. So just deal with it and get off your little high horse already.
And just so this goes no further. At least on my end as I am sure you will feel the need to reply and give me a piece of your mind even if I don't want it. I'll go ahead and use that ignore option. Later and good luck.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Response to kydo (Reply #229)
Post removed
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's bizarre to me that this is such a minority view around here.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)* (cont from subject line)...and, the fact that she is beholden to the corporations and special interests who are financing her campaign.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It seems like there is real venomous disdain between the two camps around DU.
Much more so than what I find from the candidates themselves.
In the debates, one frequently hears Bernie say: "I agree with Secretary Clinton" and Hillary say the same about Sanders.
They also often point out how much common ground they have and how different their views are from the Republicans.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...and it's just gotten nastier with each round of one-upmanship (wow, can't believe I spelled that right!).
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But now you see why we're so angry.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...kicking Democratic Socialist posts from Democratic Socialist sources out of the bed, either.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact, I think he has done a lot in helping to reclaim the positive connotations of that title.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Read through the replies, in this very thread, at what is said to and about Hillary supporters.
NotHardly
(1,062 posts)So, I get banned because I ask questions, make remarks that are not anti-Hillary ... what is up with that?
I stated I thought that some (some) of the anti-Hilary posts appear to be Republican trolls and this site decides I am dissing Sanders supporters. It seems to me that a little less paranoia might be appropriate from some of those who can "disappear a poster" without recourse, appeal, and reply.
kjones
(1,053 posts)Respected
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...so now you have to put an "ed" after respect.
kjones
(1,053 posts)Second, I lost respect as I've learned more about him. It has
nothing to do with his campaign besides the publicity which
is showing his record. The gun crap certainly bugs me, and
it eats into his manufactured persona. For me, Bernie has
suffered from his own overselling of himself. He presented
himself as a higher standard, but he's pretty much the
same as any other politician. Except, of course, that I
find his proposals to be more fantastical and pandering than
the average politician's.
Hillary is running on the argument of experience. Few people
could, with a straight face, deny she has that.
Bernie is running on the argument of principle, authenticity,
and incorruptibility, which is a terrible way to run, since
everyone has made mistakes in the past, and all
politicians are fake and manufactured personas in some way.
(I mean, come on, wasn't Bush the pinnacle of authenticity?
Authentic moron, sure, but yeah, illustrates my point.)
My decisions and motivations are based on my overall impressions
of the candidates. I've simply decided that I think Hillary has
the best chance of giving this country a bigger net gain of progress.
Hillary's got some problems, but she gets results...results that are
net positive for America in general, I believe. Bernie's got ideas,
but they're not too fleshed out, and he doesn't really have a
record of getting things through/building consensus. What he's
most got going for himself, I think, is personality. He has that
quirky persona that millennials seem to adore, and he knows
how to push every single "nostalgia" button of the aged
hippy/boomer. Other than that, his only other big defining
characteristic, for me, is the "socialist" self-label, which,
by the way, I have no problem with. Those people that
deride socialists apparently don't notice that aspects of
socialism are, and have been, well ingrained in American
society, so not really a big deal at all (though, I guess that
he touts it is a big deal).
I don't hate him, I don't disrespect him personally...-though,
I'll admit, in this primary bullshit that DU and the rest of...everything,
is caught up in, I have said some rude politically based things about him
(nothing personal, as far as I can remember). Hey, I'm human.
I just don't have the "Bern" for him.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Now he's Satan incarnate.
And, like you said, they love him when he caucuses with Democrats...especially when they have extremely even numbers in the Senate. His vote sure comes in handy! Yeah, they love him then.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)onecaliberal
(32,775 posts)The other thing is the ACA that is supposedly so awesome would NOT have passed without his vote in the senate.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...company so I'm not going to go look it up but he did vote with us the vast majority of the time and certainly against the rethugs and the shrub and against the Neocons and cheney. Hillary voted for those guys' shenanigans, at great and grave cost to lives and treasures.
onecaliberal
(32,775 posts)Hillary's vote on Iraq war disqualifies her in the minds of many. Judgement is far too poor to consider her for the White House.
uberblonde
(1,215 posts)When DU wasn't exactly like a sixth-grade lunchroon.
Those were the days!
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...blown away at the intelligence and righteousness here. But I was sure I'd be signing up directly to the NSA if I joined DU, lol. I was just sure this site was being monitored and I watched for some time to see if people that participated here were disappeared. It took a loooong time before I felt it was safe enough to join, lol.
But wow, what a bastion of knowledgeable sanity it was here back then. The essays were so good and I learned a lot more than I had from any other single source of information that matched my views of the world.
Those were the days, indeed, uberblonde!
Politicub
(12,165 posts)The same people who swear by their purity rings would feel at home with the more - how shall I say it - enthusiastic Sanders' supporters.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)murielm99
(30,712 posts)or at least we did until he decided to run for President. Preferring Clinton is not "shredding" Bernie. Neither is criticizing him, or pointing out his flaws and weaknesses.
Bernie is an independent who caucused with the Democrats. He is not Presidential material, and cannot win the general.
That is not shredding. That is truth. Stop whining because everyone does not worship your chosen one.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...last sentence.
You prove my point. Thank you.
murielm99
(30,712 posts)Bernie supporters are so thin skinned.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)How dare he!
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)I don't know why so many Sanders supporters seem to take that so personally. If I took it personally when people preferred somebody to O'Malley I'd have to hate the entire country.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Fuck them. Just put all that energy into helping Bernie get elected.
Duval
(4,280 posts)it wasn't until he decided to run for President that the negatives began here. I have been a fan for years, listening to him on Thom Hartmann's show on FSTV. Bernie fielded questions from a diverse group of people and always stayed true to his belief that we, as Americans, can do better. If we don't support him, I think we'll only continue the anger and the drift away from a party that has left me feeling betrayed. Yes, it would be nice to have a woman for our President. That woman, who would make changes that actually help Dems move back to their base, is Elizabeth Warren, not Hillary.
capitolalb
(6 posts)Not a winning strategy in America. Can't wait to see the GOP attacks on television, if Bernie is nominated.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)The hatred and malice coming from Hillary fans is scathing.
capitolalb
(6 posts)Wait until the general campaign, if Sanders is elected. Sanders will be beaten to a pulp by the GOP.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)He's being bashed pretty badly and so far it's all just bouncing off.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...two side-by-side and the choice will be obvious no matter how the GOP attempts to scare the people. Bernie is offering hope and prosperity and fairness. The GOP is offering dystopia.
Vinca
(50,236 posts)If you think back to 2008 Obama was called everything including a noncitizen of the country. Nasty, racist emails were all over the place and Jeremiah Wright played on a loop 24/7 for about a week. It's not the amount of crap thrown, it's the content. People can distinguish BS from reality.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)musicblind
(4,484 posts)However, I don't see many Sanders supporters who greatly admire Hillary.
This is sad. Both have done so many admirable things for our country and our party.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...decision to side with the warmongering Neocons to go to war against a country that had zilch to do with 9/11. Also, we don't greatly admire her being owned by corporations, insurance companies, the MIC, and Wall Street.
treestar
(82,383 posts)feel the same way about all politicians at all times?
And we can't still love Bernie but support someone else?
How is it "stabbing Bernie in the back" to support someone else? I thought it was Hillary that was so "entitled?"
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)LOL screw that!
GO HILLARY!!!!
Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Original post)
ChisolmTrailDem This message was self-deleted by its author.