Hillary supporters who are shredding Bernie had no complaints about Bernie and were...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

Last edited Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

...completely enamored of him while he was caucusing with Democrats for decades and when he challenged the right wingnuts with his marathon filibuster. You LOVED him!

Why are you now stabbing him in the back after all he has done to support your beliefs and values all these years? You LOVED him right up until he challenged Hillary. Then you turned your backs on him.

(Edited to make less all-inclusive as this does not apply to "every single" Hillary supporter.)

[JRLeft]

1. Because he won't kiss the ring of Corporate Hillary.

[Hoyt]

2. Is it stabbing him in the back to think Clinton has a better chance of getting things done? Did you

Did you have a complaint about Clinton when she was on Sanders' side?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

7. I've had complaints about the Clintons all the way back to when I was sitting across the...

...table from them planning and strategizing Bill's second run at governor of Arkansas. I had compaints during his governorship and both presidential terms. I've had complaints about Hillary going all the way back to my high school days. And still I voted for Bill all the way along. Hillary lost my vote when she sided with the filthy lying U.S. troops and innocent brown people -killing NEOCONS to invade the WRONG COUNTRY that cost countless lives.

She has NO CHANCE of getting ANYTHING done with a Congress THAT HATES HER MORE THAN THEY DO BARACK OBAMA.

Get that straight through your head, Hoyt.

[Hoyt]

13. Well, she has more chance than the non-electable Sanders in todays' environment. Maybe you should

accept that. Did you support Kerry, who also voted to give george war bush authority to invade Iraq, IF NEEDED?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

14. I don't remember the 2004 election cycle, politics was low priority for a couple of years during...

...that time.

Since he became the Dem nominee, I would have voted for him (ETA: Actually, I did vote for him, I always vote and I always vote straight ticket, even when I'm not paying much attention.), just as I will do for Hillary if she is our nominee this year.

[Mbrow]

119. Same old

conventional wisdom.

[merrily]

228. Just to be clear:

EC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

[okasha]

152. Ah.

File tirades under "Personal Vendettas."

[ChisolmTrailDem]

153. There's no reason for me to have a personal vendetta. Such high intrigue, oh my! Did you miss...

...the part where I've been a Clinton fan since I'm in high school and have worked/volunteered on their behalf? I will vote for her if she is our nominee and have said as much: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511067386

[politicaljunkie41910]

217. Well what does that say about you? I guess you're a slow learner if you've hated

the Clinton's that long, yet you continued to sit across the table from them and support them. I think it says more about YOU than it says about them.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

219. Where the fuck do you get that I hate the Clintons?? nt

[ypsfonos]

43. The things SHE wants to get done...

certainly won't help those who have been disenfranchised by trickle-down
economics which she is completely in favor of.

[JRLeft]

47. No but it will help Jamie Dimon loot the nation of its wealth.

[SammyWinstonJack]

158. Impeachment on the table day one. Wait for it. How much will she get done with that hanging over

head?

[gregcrawford]

156. Specious reasoning...

... if the House and Senate remain under Republican control, NO Democrat will get much done. And I hate to break it to you, but conservative hatred of Hillary, justified or not, will make doubly - no, make that FOUR-PLY! - difficult for her to get anything done.

Guess we'll both just have to wait and see.

[Hoyt]

161. Like you don't think there will be GOPer hatred for Sanders. They'll brand him as Mao or Castro.

Unfairly for sure, but it'll scare a lot of white folks including so-called independents.

[gregcrawford]

181. Oh, they'd hate him, all right...

... just like they hate every Liberal, and like I hate every conservative. I was making particular reference to the deep antipathy that conservatives seem to have toward the Clintons that goes back nearly a quarter of a century.

I've got a lot more years behind me than I have in front of me, and I can remember a time when it was possible to agree to disagree and still be friends with a Republican. Those days are no more.

[Unknown Beatle]

207. "I can remember a time when it was possible to agree

to disagree and still be friends with a Republican."

You're right. I had friends that were republican and we got along just fine. But then The Fairness Doctrine was eliminated and we had Rush Lamebrain, Fox, Beck, and all the other nuts spewing hate nonstop about anything Democratic, liberal and progressive. As a result of those hate-mongering idiots, my republican ex-friends became stark raving mad conservative blathering lunatics.

[Flying Phoenix]

220. Who's that fourth dude in your signature?

[Unknown Beatle]

222. Stevie Ray Vaughan

Or as some fans call him, Stevie Rave On.

[bvar22]

208. I hear that a lot. Hillary will get "things" done.

Help me out here.
What are those mysterious and vague "things" you believe Hillary can get done?

[Hoyt]

213. Improve ACA, increase minimum wage, improve SS and Medicare, infrastructure jobs, etc.

[bvar22]

214. And you believe she can do this with a Republican Congress?

Pie in the Sky, wishful, Rainbows and Unicorns, non-reality based thinking.
Please Proceed.

At least Bernie is leading a MOVEMENT,
a MOVEMENT that won't go away, win or lose this election.
This really isn't about Bernie. It is about the 99% who got stiffed by the so called "recovery" and Free Trade.

What is Hillary leading?
I don't see very many people marching for "No. We. Can't".

[Hoyt]

216. If she can't improve any of that, Sanders darn sure won't get close to anything he's promising.

I think Clinton will come closer to delivering, plus she can win the GE.

[merrily]

226. When was Hillary on Sanders' side? And what does that have to do with

whether you hated Sanders before he decided to run for POTUS?

[Lucinda]

3. I still love Bernie. His campaign not so much, and I don't think he should be

POTUS. I will vote for him if he is the nominee though.

And it's a bit silly to tell people they are stabbing someone in the back just because they prefer another candidate.

[Skidmore]

16. Thank you for injecting reason. nt

[stonecutter357]

53. I love Bernie.

[dsc]

4. I had a problem with his gun vote since he cast it

it is an issue I care a great deal about and his votes against the Brady bill and his vote for immunity for gun manufacturers were bad then and bad in retrospect. Otherwise, I had no real problem with him to be fair.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

33. Who voted for war?

Who did not

It is called perspective

[dsc]

34. more Americans have died from guns than from the war

that is my perspective.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

57. Many social dynamics result in the ghastly number of people killed with guns

the trillions of dollars spent on the wars is lost forever - that money could have be put toward changing our society - changes that would have reduced the number of deaths

Many are suicides - money for mental health
poverty
education
hopelessness
violence

I support gun control - but I am no so stupid as to think that guns are the heart of the issue

[A Simple Game]

66. To understand your perspective we have to assume that for you

Iraqi and Afghans lives don't matter. Nor does it seem you care about the wounded both physically and mentally.

Otherwise there is not much of a comparison.

[Lordquinton]

120. Voiting for war is a foreign policy matter

and she seems to want more wars and enemy's. You'd think with all that experience she'd know they best way to protect american interests is to stop starting wars.

[840high]

83. How about non-Americans?

[JDPriestly]

89. Passing the Brady bill will not prevent people from dying from guns in this country.

We have to change our culture.

More important than the Brady bill is teaching people non-violent communication techniques starting in grade school.

Here are excellent resources on this topic.

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/aboutnvc/4partprocess.htm

I am not financially related or otherwise a part of the organization that sponsors this program, but I did take a one-day course in it, and I highly recommend it.

Nonviolent communication should be a part of our public school curriculum. Everywhere in America and maybe around the world.

[dsc]

130. tell that to the people Dylan Roof killed

no wait you can't they're dead, from a gun Roof got because they had to sell it to him despite the fact his info hadn't come back yet. Had the Brady Bill passed in the form we wanted (with a 7 day waiting period) Roof would have been denied that gun.

[JDPriestly]

223. And, because of the huge number of guns we have in this country, he would have found it or

them through some other means, stealing if necessary.

It's OK to pass the Brady bill, but it won't shut the door on mass shootings or the use of guns for revenge or just because . . . .

We need a massive movement for peaceful, non-violent communication.

That way, the Dylan Roofs, the people who are both angry and crazy, will be more noticeable, easier to spot and easier to deal with. Dylan Roof should have been institutionalized before he went completely crazy. Same for almost all, maybe in fact all of the serial killers we deal with.

But there are so many angry people in America and so many people who express anger in such frustrating and unproductive ways that the Dylan Roofs are hardly noticed.

We need to learn to communicate in general without violence.

Look at the number of DUers who lose their cool and get asked to stay away from DU. Many of them are really good people. That should not happen on a liberal political website. We should be able to discuss things without anger and especially without personal attacks. But most Americans don't know how to do that. They don't know the difference between jabs, verbal jabs that hurt others and escalate anger and problem solving with words that build trust, confidence in oneself and the other and communication.

That's sad.

I do not oppose the Brady Bill. It will improve things a little. But the real, deep, serious problem is that we do not converse or communicate with each other in a non-violent way.

[John Poet]

132. And it's only American lives that count, right?

Estimates say half a million innocent Iraqi civilians lost their lives in the Iraq war.

That's half a MILLION. With an "M".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html

[SammyWinstonJack]

159. Funny how that escapes that poster.

[Agony]

162. FALSE

no americans have died because of legislation that Sanders supported.

[uponit7771]

166. Strawman, people have died from the support he's given gun corporations through his votes

... over the years

[beam me up scottie]

170. Link to the stats then, I'll wait. You never do follow through so I'll start on supper.

[dsc]

176. the people in Charleston would be alive today had the Brady bill passed with its

seven day waiting period.

[uponit7771]

180. +1, that's directly a result of Sanders votes... lets see what their retort will be

[beam me up scottie]

182. Nope, you can't lay that on Bernie, the bill passed period.

Try again, I've been told there are tens of thousands.

[uponit7771]

184. He voted against it, again... his votes shaped where we're at today.

[beam me up scottie]

191. Compare the death tolls then, how many here to how many there?

[dsc]

188. It passed with a smaller waiting period

it was supposed to have a seven day waiting period, instead it was cut down to three with it going to zero at the behest of people like Sanders. His vote is directly responsible for those deaths in Charleston. They had to sell that gun because they couldn't get the information back in time.

[uponit7771]

192. Ah, so Sanders votes help whittle down the waiting period for guns... a 7 day waiting period

... did NOT pass as some have said upthread.

hmmm

[beam me up scottie]

193. Speculation. No proof of that but we do know that the Iraq war directly killed hundreds of thousands

[dsc]

199. It is not speculation

It has been reported over and over again, that Roof got his gun because after the 3 day period it was still inconclusive and thus he had to get the gun. A 7 day period would have picked up his record and he wouldn't have gotten his gun.

[beam me up scottie]

200. It's speculation because we don't know that he wouldn't have gotten it some other way.

You can't speculate about what might or might not have happened based on a those votes.

It's not directly related to his votes the way the Iraqi deaths are related to Hillary's vote.

[dsc]

201. so then why can't I say Bush would have gone to war anyway

and thus Hillary is off the hook? The simple fact is he got a gun that he wasn't supposed to get, that he wouldn't have gotten but for the shorter waiting period that your candidate insisted we have.

[beam me up scottie]

202. He didn't need to, he had the votes. She could have voted no but didn't.

She should have known better than to trust Bush, Bernie did.

[dsc]

203. so then the dead Iraqis aren't her fault

is that your point?

[beam me up scottie]

204. Yes they are because she voted for it, promoted it and endorsed it.

He went to war with her blessing.

[dsc]

209. then Sanders is at fault for the fact Roof got that gun

you can't have it both ways. Either legislation matters or it doesn't.

[beam me up scottie]

210. One is speculation and the other isn't. You're comparing apples to citrus fruit that never was.

[dsc]

211. It isn't speculation

he got the fucking gun and he killed the people. A gun he got for one, and one reason only. We weren't permitted to deny him the gun thanks to the weakening of the Brady bill at the behest of Bernie and others like him.

[beam me up scottie]

212. He might still have gotten it with the waiting period. That's why it's speculation.

Face it the problem isn't just waiting periods, it's the availability of guns on the street.

Jesus Christ, I can get in my car, drive into the city and find someone to sell me a gun now, illegally. I can break into a house and steal one or I can get one from a family member or friend.

We don't know for sure what Dylan would have done if he had been turned down, that's why it's speculation.

[uponit7771]

177. You've been given the death rate from guns in the US before... you're soon strawman reply wont work

... its been preempted

[beam me up scottie]

178. Which ones are because of which votes? Be specific.

[uponit7771]

183. 7 day waiting period and deaths in Charleston, you already know this though

[beam me up scottie]

185. No, I don't and you said "there are 30,000 gun related deaths in America"

How many of those are directly linked to his votes?

[uponit7771]

187. The same amount directly linked to HRC's IWR vote.. none... ... right!? It's like your questions

... come from left field and then you bow out when cornered.

[beam me up scottie]

189. Hundreds of thousands died as a direct result of that war, yes.

She voted for it, promoted it and endorsed the invasion so they are a result of Hillary's actions.

Now how many of those tens of thousands of gun deaths are a result of Bernie's votes?

You wanted to compare the death toll go ahead.

[uponit7771]

196. I don't want to compare the death tolls, its a silly non sequiter and your common strawman...

... gets injected into peoples postings and intentions.

Bottom line, Sanders votes help shape the shit hole where we're at with guns in this country right now and that's bad enough

[beam me up scottie]

198. You did just a few posts ago when you brought it up, now you've changed your mind?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1105012

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1105050

I'm shocked!

[Agony]

172. Total Bullshit.

you are entitled to your erroneous opinion however

[uponit7771]

179. Nope, there are 30,000 gun related deaths in America... Sanders votes helped shape where we're

... at right now in this country with guns.

That's not a fact that's in dispute

[beam me up scottie]

190. How many compared to the hundreds of thousands who died in Iraq?

Let's compare the death toll, proceed.

[dsc]

175. yes the people in Charleston would be alive today if the Brady Bill had passed with the 7 day

waiting period that its sponsors wanted. BTW no one died from Hillary's vote either since Bush went to war in contravention of what that vote said (he didn't wait for the UN like the vote said he would)

[uponit7771]

186. Its always Sanders who can throw as many stones as he wants even though he's not far removed

... from his bag of bad himself.

That's the more griinding thing I find with the argument for Sanders, "he's slightly better!!" isn't enough for me

[riversedge]

54. Who voted to fund the wars--year after year. Have some perspective.

[beam me up scottie]

78. So he shouldn't vote to fund the troops she sent to war?

[Lordquinton]

114. And if he hadn't voted for funding

We'd now be hearing about how he doesn't support our troops.

[beam me up scottie]

121. Exactly.

Some even blame him for the Iraq war because he voted to support them.

[uponit7771]

168. Nope, you'd be hearing hearing about him having a consistent position on the war...no support period

[neverforget]

141. Hillary voted for the war AND the funding.

Have some perspective.

[Lucinda]

55. He voted to fund it. More than once.

The issue is not a simple one.

[MoonchildCA]

243. The single most important thing we can do to reduce gun violence...

Is to limit the stranglehold the NRA has over our elected officials. The gun lobby and all corporate lobbies control and even write the majority of legistlation that comes before Congress.
This is the single most important issue that all Americans should be fighting for. Until then, we are not a country of, by, and for the people, but one of, by, and or the corporations.

[Skidmore]

5. You grossly overestimate

how closely people from other states than Vermont tracked on Sanders. Enamoured? He fillabustered. Other senators have too. Caucusing with doesn't hide or negate the scorning he engaged in. Not everyone is enamoured and that is their choice and right.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

11. I was watching here, Skidmore. I know EXACTLY how DU felt about Bernie Sanders. And now he's being

stabbed in the back after backing Democratic policies for decades. This is how Hillary supporters turn their backs on a good man they considered a friend and whom they admired.

You can't tell me I don't know what I saw here. Hell, I'd bet a search of DU2 would reveal that you thought very highly of him too. I'd bet money on it.

[Skidmore]

15. Oh, good grief.

You support him for President. Others support someone else. There are many goood people who have been in pulblic service over the years, including Sanders. Electing to support a candidate that you don't is not an afront to your candidate requiring pistols on the meadow at high noon to satisfy honor. There are simply people who don't agree with your choice. In case you haven't noticed, Republicans are making choices too.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

18. They turned their backs on Bernie after he had their backs for decades. Oh, good grief...

...(how dismissive of you, btw)...

Not only have they turned their backs on this good man, they are violently stabbing him in the back.

End. Of. Story.

[Skidmore]

20. They??

Who is "they"? We also have two Democrats besides him who are running. Have you noticed?

[tasgator]

197. Everybody who doesn't agree that

Bernie will make all corporations behave ethically and in the best interest of all humanity and Republicans will lie down with the lambs and magic ponies will produce unlimited skittles from their behinds. If you don't believe this then you are a sell-out corporatist hack. Oh, and if you support Hillary because you honestly believe she is a better candidate who will actually get more things done that are in the country's best interest you are the same.

[mythology]

28. Perhaps if you posted something that was worthy of something more

than being disdainfully dismissed, people might not treat it that way. You are using really over the top hyperbole and then criticizing people for remarking on that.

You presume some sort of betrayal, rather than honest disagreement.

[Electric Monk]

36. 53 recs and counting. nt

[beam me up scottie]

51. 58. Must have struck a nerve.

[840high]

86. 76

[beam me up scottie]

87. Lot of nerves being struck today.

[Electric Monk]

215. 123 nt

[okasha]

155. "violently stabbing him in the back? "

Sorry, but that is a complete break with reality. No one here has perpetrated violence against the Senator. No one has "stabbed him in the back." The fact that he caucused and voted with Senatorial Democrats does not automatically qualify him to be President, any more than it qualified, say, Harry Reid.

Step back and get some perspective.

[99Forever]

37. Yeah. Who ya gonna believe?

Your own lying eyes? Or the people campaigning for the candidate well known for using every dirty trick in the book and then some and when MOST people are asked what the first word that comes to mind when they think of her, is liar?

Get with the program CTDem, Bernie has made the wheels fall off The Coronation Express and as such he MUST be the source of all evil.

[Lorien]

40. +1

It's all about team wins for the DLC. Power over the people, not service to the people.

[Skidmore]

19. Word choice of the OP.

Take it up with him.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Yep, he was a DU darling for years and years.

Just like Obama, until they got in the way.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

8. He was a GOD here. I remember it very clearly. nt

[beam me up scottie]

10. Look at what they did to Obama here in 2007-2008.

I'm not surprised.

Disgusted but not surprised.

[Hekate]

32. Oh please

[Number23]

154. Don't you just love the re-write of history?

Sanders was a DARLING here. And so was Obama!!1one

I don't think many here had an opinion on Sanders either way until last year but the opinion on Obama was inescapable. I guess we're all just supposed to pretend that we never saw the 74 thousand and 12 posts where he was called a "lightweight lying con man" a "piece of shit used car salesman," an "empty suit" and a "corporatist" and where people accused him of everything from sicing Homeland Security on Occupy to giving the H1N1 vaccine to Wall Street first because they were "his people".

Never mind that an ACTUAL DU darling was well known and repeatedly applauded for saying that the 2008 presidential election was the ONE election in this country's history he wanted to see overturned.

It's good to know that if I'm hallucinating that you, one of the smartest DUers here, saw the same thing. At least I'm in very smart company.

[Hekate]

173. We shall hallucinate together. What it is to be an old history major, who used to think it mattered.

[emulatorloo]

206. Thanks for the REAL history lesson.

I remember it all too, no matter what the revisionists now loudly claim. DU has turned into the Internet version of Hitchcock's Gaslight.

[Arazi]

9. We love Bernie!

https://m.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

17. I never had a complaint of using Bernie Sanders politically.

He was useful as another vote to elect Harry Reid as Majority leader. So, from a political viewpoint, I saw him as a handy tool for the Democratic Party. This doesn't mean I didn't have disagreements with his policy positions. For example, I didn't like his gun positions then and I stll don't like it now.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

21. Hmmm...so you didn't like his gun positions (whatever that means) but Hillary's IWR vote is...

...a-ok with you?

Wow.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

23. Hillary Clinton apologized for her vote. Bernie Sanders has NEVER apologized for his gun votes. nt

[JRLeft]

56. Hillary's vote killed hundreds of thousands and still getting people killed.

Her vote created the group she calls the biggest threat "ISIL".

[ChisolmTrailDem]

60. IOKIYAHRC. nt

[ProudToBeLiberal]

61. Every year 30,000 people die from guns. You do the math. nt

[beam me up scottie]

62. And how many died because of his vote? You do the math.

Which ones were caused by which vote?

Tia!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

64. Hey scottie. How was your day? You excited from Monday? nt

[beam me up scottie]

65. Can you answer the question or not?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

68. Can you rephrase it please. btw, why are you avoiding my question? nt

[beam me up scottie]

70. You blamed Bernie for the deaths of "30,000 people" every year, which votes caused them and how?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

73. Can you stop avoiding my questions? They are pretty harmless. nt

[beam me up scottie]

74. You answer my question first, can you back up your claim or not?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

77. You are smarter than me. It's not fair how you always try to use your wits on me.

It's hard for me to keep up. .

[JRLeft]

67. Killers kill people, why are blaming guns? I'm a gun owner and never killed anyone.

Your message doesn't make sense.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

69. Are you an NRA member? nt

[JRLeft]

75. Yep

[ProudToBeLiberal]

80. Isn't that against DU's ToS? How have you survived here for so long? nt

[JRLeft]

85. It's against DU rules to be a member of the NRA, I never knew that.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

88. Don't worry. I have your back. Your secret is safe with me. nt

[JRLeft]

93. I've been pretty open about it, I'm black, progressive on most issues with

the exception of guns, atheist, (ex-Christian and Muslim).

[ProudToBeLiberal]

99. Were you part of Nation of Islam? I heard they were more favorable to guns for protection. nt

[JRLeft]

106. Yes, I used to be in the NOI. A That's not why I grew to love guns.

Going to the range is stress relieving and flat out fun. I don't hunt animals (vegan).

I love guns, rock climbing, snowboarding, racing bikes and cars, and skydiving.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

109. You think Malcolm X was ordered to be killed by Elijah Muhammad? nt

[JRLeft]

113. I'm not sure it was Elijah Muhammad, but I suspect it was some of the

other Ministers whom were jealous of him.

[beam me up scottie]

92. I'm sure your post was probably already alerted on.

I can't wait to see the jury results, should be 7-0.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

101. I usually posts the jury results on posts that I alert on. You can be assured I did not alert him.

Scouts honor.

[beam me up scottie]

90. Of course it's not, why are you trying to get members banned?

Knock it off.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

91. I was just teasing him. It's just harmless fun. nt

[beam me up scottie]

94. No, it's not. Not when your associates are actively trying to get Bernie supporters banned.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

103. I'm sorry for your 4 hides. They weren't my doing. You still forgive me? nt

[beam me up scottie]

108. Are you sorry for yours? Linking to racist right wing sites will do that.

Maybe you should check those sources next time before you post a smear about Bernie's family.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

115. I already apologized for that. That wasn't a proud moment in my life. nt

[beam me up scottie]

118. Then maybe you shouldn't bring up anyone else's posting history.

Because mine weren't for anything as bad as that.

If you're trying to bait and alert me into another one, good luck, I'll just remind the jury that you made it personal first.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

123. beam me up scottie. nt

[elias49]

231. She apologized for her vote? Big fucking deal.

You're serious? That's all it takes?
Welcome to bedlam.

[cascadiance]

22. So... did you like Hillary's gun positions when Obama called her Annie Oakley in last election?

Or do you just accept and LIKE that she flip flops ALL THE TIME! And that you don't mind when she switches on issues so much as she must mean something for some other reason for you. Since you just see Bernie as a "tool for the party" before, it sounds like you only care about power and sucking up to those who are powerful so that you can share their power with them. And I suppose you think that is what the Democratic Party is all about and why you like it, even if they sell themselves to those who believe that the traditional beliefs of this party are the OPPOSITE of that!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

26. I trust in Obama's judgement. Even after the brutal primary, he still chose her as his SoS. nt

[libdem4life]

44. It was a sure way to keep her from repeating 2008 in 2012...that didn't slip past many.

There were many good candidates. You know the old...keep your enemies close?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

50. Another conspiracy theory from a Bernie Sander's support. How am I not surprised. nt

[libdem4life]

76. He did the very smart thing to do. So they were besties and no one else was available? Nope.

You can moan CT as long as you want. What else was she to do with her highly focused political career but keep the PUMAs in place and keep it up?

He certainly did not need a House and Senate and former and very ugly campaigning foe trying to upend his second term. And anyone who thinks any differently just wasn't there.

CT, right.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

84. Now you are engaging in revisionist history. What's next? The moon landing didn't happened? nt

[libdem4life]

116. Whatever. People who talk moon landings and spout one liners in a serious political discussion

don't impress me much.

Carry on.

[Lordquinton]

125. You didn't answer the question.

You support her former position on guns?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

126. Answer mine first. nt

[jwirr]

24. Excellent point.

[livetohike]

25. Funny, but I don't remember Bernie Sanders being a

major topic here at DU until he started appearing on the Ed Schultz show regularly. Perhaps in the VT forum .

[Lorien]

35. You haven't been around long enough

He was a regular on Bill Moyers shows and was often talked about, along with Paul Wellstone and Dennis Kucinich, as some of the last honest public servants in Washington.

[livetohike]

38. I've been here since March 2004. n/t

[ChisolmTrailDem]

45. Every time we gained a victory Bernie was lauded for voting with us. And not just in the...

...VT forum, but right here in GD.

There was a bit of a stir for a very small group about his gun manufacturer vote. But over all, he's ALWAYS been a favorite on DU, as far back as I started reading DU in 2005. Hell, DU is how I came to know of Bernie Sanders.

[firebrand80]

27. Poor Bernie nt

[Lorien]

29. They're just sports teams to some people

team colors and labels matter more than the issues to some votes. Their personal identities are entwined with the "team", and Hillary, to them, is more of an "official" team member than Bernie is. If they really supported the idea of more wars, fracking, GMOs, Walmart business practices, NAFTA and the TPP, for profit prisons, rejecting single payer, rejecting once standard free public university educations, while embracing high interest rates, Wall Street corruption, etc. they wouldn't be members of the Democratic Party. It's like when half a football teams members are embroiled in criminal activity; that still won't dissuade a lifetime fan from supporting anyone else.

[Hekate]

30. Who the hell even knew who he was all those years? How could we be "enamored" of him?

What a silly statement.

There is no "backstabbing" of this candidate who has decided to piggyback his campaign onto a Democratic Party infrastructure that he has spent 50 years denigrating. Tell me how stating this truth is "backstabbing," because I have no sympathy.

Also tell us, please, how thumbing your nose at the rest of us (i.e. the lifelong members of the Democratic Party) will make us eager to support the Holy Gadfly?

If he is doing so overwhelmingly well, in such a YUUUUGE fashion, why even bother with attacking those who are not yet convinced?

Silly.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

39. The assumption of the OP is that readers of this forum follow politics.

If that doesn't describe you, then I can see why you're confused. The rest of us have long been aware of who Bernie Sanders is. You should read about him.

[Hekate]

52. Ooooh yeah. If I was only informed of his greatness and hadn't been sleeping the whole time.

Believe me, I am not confused. I was certainly aware that the Gadfly Senator from Vermont deigned to caucus with the Democrats, but I was neither confused nor amused about where his loyalties lay. "Enamored" hardly describes it.

I initially welcomed his entrance into this race because I thought he had ideas that needed to be heard, but the behavior of his online supporters has been... well, let's just say it has been well-documented elsewhere and is on display hourly at DU. Not the way to win people over.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

236. Make up your mind. You either knew who he was, or you didn't. Don't presume to speak for others.

Also, enough with the intellectual dishonesty. I reject these ridiculous notions of large numbers of people initially liking Sanders but turning away from him because of mean people on the Internet. This was always a ludicrous claim, and I'm throwing it right back at the people who use this dishonest tactic.

[Hekate]

241. Twaddle

[DisgustipatedinCA]

242. That works for me. I can find no intellectual dishonesty with the single word "twaddle". Thanks.

[A Simple Game]

102. Try changing the he to a she in your next to last statement.

If he is doing so overwhelmingly well, in such a YUUUUGE fashion, why even bother with attacking those who are not yet convinced?

Then apply your last statement.

Silly.

Makes just as much sense.

[StevieM]

31. What are you talking about? I'm a Hillary supporter who likes Sanders and O'Malley as well.

Most Democrats like all three candidates.

How have I stabbed him in the back? I'm just voting for a different candidate.

[jfern]

160. Well OK, but much of the Hillary campaign has been attacking Bernie

[StevieM]

171. I just don't see it. I think this has been a remarkably clean campaign.

Compare it to Carter/Kennedy, Hart/Mondale, Gephardt/Dukakis/Gore, Clinton/Tsongas/Brown, Gore/Bradley, Clinton/Obama. I just don't see how this campaign has ever gotten anywhere as close to negative.

I am very proud of all three of our candidates. And I would be proud to support any one of them for president.

[BigGLiberal]

41. This Hillary supporter was never enamored of Sanders.

I haven't liked him since he voted against the Brady Bill and I don't support candidates who vote with Rand Paul.

[MyNameGoesHere]

42. Sorry but you lie

I have never been enamored, impressed or have really given a hoot about Sanders. I have never really cared for him period. So please take me out of the "Not a single one of you Hillary supporters" broad brush please. And try not to tell more lies about me.

Thank you.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

48. It's probably not smart to call another DUer a liar. I have to avoid doing that to keep from...

...getting a hide.

You have removed yourself. I am specifically referring to those rabid Hillary supporters who are attempting to shred Bernie to bits simple for daring to run for president. They know who they are. And those of you for whom this does not apply, are not the ones attempting to tear Bernie to shreds after all he's done for our party.

I will consider re-wording my title.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. The ones that crack me up are those that kneejerk oppose everything he stands for....

That's how they came to oppose Wall Street Reform and Medicare For All.

[Gman]

49. What a stupid question

Like I owe him anything. I never had a vote in his election so I don't care. And if he wasn't there, a real Democrat would be. So it's a stupid question. What? Vermont's going to elect a Republican senator?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

104. I waited to see if you'd add more to your previously sparse response. Thank you. nt

[Gman]

142. And another thing...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

144. Bwwahahahaa! Good one ;) ...

[Gman]

146. LOL!

That's one of the good things about the edit button.

[brewens]

58. But, but, it's Hillary's turn! We were promised she would be our first woman president and it has

this election! No matter what!

[Cary]

59. I have "stabbed" no one

Have you ever heard of self actualization? Perhaps you should worry less about what you think others may be thinking of you, and put a little more effort into better manners and some common decency?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

63. I'm sorry, I don't think turning your back on a long-time friend can be considered "common decency".

[kjones]

107. So why do it to Hillary

I know "oligarchy! 1%!"
That's bull.
Hillary and Bernie have both made mistakes (Bernie's gun votes
being a sticking point for me), both have done far more good
for all of us than bad. So why the cold shoulder?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

111. Ummmmm, I'm not talking about Hillary here. Hillary isn't the problem. Indeed, I'm pleasantly...

...surprised she's been as tame versus Bernie as she has been. And I, for one, appreciate that.

[Lordquinton]

129. So we're going back in time again?

Let's go back a little further when Hillary sat on the board of Walmart and talk about that. Another "mistake"?

[Cary]

138. So tiring

Do you people never tire of this insipid game, trying to change the subject to me personally? Do you think you score points, displaying the emotional maturity of a 12 year old?

This is the exact same tactics I encounter from Ann Rand cultists.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

140. Oh, you broke out the "you're 12 year old" childishness? Ha! Are...

...personal attacks considered adult behavior?

[Cary]

233. That's a dumb response

When one makes it personal instead of discussing the issue at hand they're being stupid. Period.

If you want to be an apologist for stupidity, that's up to you of course. But really you ought to grow up.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

234. More personal attacks is all you have, huh? How childish can you get? nt

[Cary]

237. Except I didn't make it personal

I clearly addressed your comment.

You need to learn the difference, but I doubt you will.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

238. And yet another personal attack! You need a binky? nt

[Cary]

239. As I predicted

Leopards don't change their spots.

[kydo]

71. WOW! so you have that gene that gives you the ability to read everyone's thoughts?

Wished I had that. Come in handy when picking football games and talking to the hubby... but alas I am not as cool as you, the all knowing ChisolmTrailDem. Do you want us to bow before your greatness too?

But your gene isn't that good as your statement about every single HRC supporter not having a single complaint about Sanders and being completely enamored blah blah. Well, how do you know if I didn't have issues with the bern guy? I did, his gun control voting was not what I would have hoped for, for one. And there were more and this was before he officially entered the primaries.

If he wins the nomination he will have tons of enemies. They all have little r's after their names. Plus all the hate media will be zooming their targets so fast on his back you would think they the bern killed their cat and took their candy away.

Right now repugs like the bern because they not only hate HRC but they are scared of her. So of course the right will talk up bernie right now. After March they won't. He will either be the nominee or back in the senate and free to lay all their hate on.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

81. I couldn't read past your subject line... I don't read peoples' minds, you don't have to when...

...it's all right there on your computer screen, posted to a message board, over a decade's worth. There has never been hate for Bernie (indeed, he has been a hero here) on this board, like there is now. That is my point. He has been a friend to Democrats throughout the history of this website and there has never been an opposing uproar against Bernie. Until he decided to run for president.

Whatever else you said, I didn't see.

[kydo]

124. If you can't read minds then maybe you shouldn't claim you can

Besides there is nothing on my computer screen posted to a message board over the last ten years that says other wise. Did you go through all my posts to see? Probably not. And just because I may not have said mean things about Sanders or posted in ten years where I might disagree with him is a mute point, as i don't always comment on everything whether I agree or disagree. I barely post. I don't even have 2000 posts and yet I have been here for 10 years, go figure. Mostly I lurk, so I probably would not have posted if I disagree with people.

Just saying....

[ChisolmTrailDem]

128. Look, my ultimate point is this: Bernie is as squeaky-clean as they get. He's a good man. He has...

...always been a friend to Democrats but he has also been his own man, with his own ideas and I respect that. He also transformed an American city into one of the most, if not the most, livable places in this nation.

The wrath that has fallen down upon Bernie is solely because he chose to dare to run for president. I edited my OP a while ago after another poster pointed out that I could not count him/her in my (admittedly, worded as such) all-inclusive statement to be more specific. That edit applies for you as well.

[kydo]

224. He is not squeaky clean. No one is squeaky clean.

No wrath has befallen down upon him solely because he chose to dare to run for president that has not happened to anyone that chooses to run for this office. It's par for the course. If you have a problem with different points of view maybe you need to grow some tougher skin. Because if you think he is being unfairly treated now just wait and see how badly he gets attacked if he actaully wins the nominee. See how the right treats HRC, and Obama, that will be the treatment he gets and then some as he will be the sole target for their hate.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

227. Hmmmm...I know of no scandals Bernie's been a part of. OTOH, we have Hillary who...ahem...has. nt

[kydo]

229. Yeah know for a person that doesn't like it when their candidate is "treated unfairly or mean"

You sure have no trouble treating other candidates much worse. Cause let me explain it too you, at least from my point of view. I have no personal hate for your candidate. Many of his supporters not so much. Why you peeps need to sound like the right wing and hurl insults?

In a much simpler form, you and people like you are making me like Mr Sanders less and less. Bernie is not a knight in shiny gold awesome armour riding on a white horse farting unicorns and rainbows. And Hillary is not the big bad witch from the north coming to kill your babies, take your money, strip your land, and kick your dog. Nor does she shoot lasers from her eyes and fire from her mouth. The truth is both are more in the middle and closer then anyone wants to admit.

So please stop with your holier then thou attitude. You shit on a toilet like the rest of us and it stinks just as bad.

So lets agree to disagree with out insulting each other and our candidates. You are not going to change my mind and I will not change yours. So just deal with it and get off your little high horse already.

And just so this goes no further. At least on my end as I am sure you will feel the need to reply and give me a piece of your mind even if I don't want it. I'll go ahead and use that ignore option. Later and good luck.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

230. Did you really just run away??? nt

[oberliner]

72. Bernie is great and so is Hillary

It's bizarre to me that this is such a minority view around here.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

96. I think they're both great, too (except for that IWR thing and *). I've said as much...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511067386

* (cont from subject line)...and, the fact that she is beholden to the corporations and special interests who are financing her campaign.

[oberliner]

105. That's good to hear

It seems like there is real venomous disdain between the two camps around DU.

Much more so than what I find from the candidates themselves.

In the debates, one frequently hears Bernie say: "I agree with Secretary Clinton" and Hillary say the same about Sanders.

They also often point out how much common ground they have and how different their views are from the Republicans.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

110. It started for me when they started in on about him being a "socialist". That's where it started...

...and it's just gotten nastier with each round of one-upmanship (wow, can't believe I spelled that right!).

[beam me up scottie]

112. I remember you took us to task at first.

But now you see why we're so angry.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

117. Yea, lol, I did, tried anyway. But I did come to understand. And I don't recall many of them...

...kicking Democratic Socialist posts from Democratic Socialist sources out of the bed, either.

[oberliner]

133. Bernie himself does not seem to mind being called a socialist

In fact, I think he has done a lot in helping to reclaim the positive connotations of that title.

[Amimnoch]

79. I give to you.. exhibit A.

Read through the replies, in this very thread, at what is said to and about Hillary supporters.

[NotHardly]

82. Banned for replying and asking questions... so much for Democratic conversation

So, I get banned because I ask questions, make remarks that are not anti-Hillary ... what is up with that?
I stated I thought that some (some) of the anti-Hilary posts appear to be Republican trolls and this site decides I am dissing Sanders supporters. It seems to me that a little less paranoia might be appropriate from some of those who can "disappear a poster" without recourse, appeal, and reply.

[kjones]

95. Was never enamored. I respected him...

Respected

[ChisolmTrailDem]

98. That's just what I'm saying. He had the nerve to run for president...

...so now you have to put an "ed" after respect.

[kjones]

134. No, don't tell me what my motivations are, first of all.

Second, I lost respect as I've learned more about him. It has
nothing to do with his campaign besides the publicity which
is showing his record. The gun crap certainly bugs me, and
it eats into his manufactured persona. For me, Bernie has
suffered from his own overselling of himself. He presented
himself as a higher standard, but he's pretty much the
same as any other politician. Except, of course, that I
find his proposals to be more fantastical and pandering than
the average politician's.

Hillary is running on the argument of experience. Few people
could, with a straight face, deny she has that.
Bernie is running on the argument of principle, authenticity,
and incorruptibility, which is a terrible way to run, since
everyone has made mistakes in the past, and all
politicians are fake and manufactured personas in some way.
(I mean, come on, wasn't Bush the pinnacle of authenticity?
Authentic moron, sure, but yeah, illustrates my point.)

My decisions and motivations are based on my overall impressions
of the candidates. I've simply decided that I think Hillary has
the best chance of giving this country a bigger net gain of progress.

Hillary's got some problems, but she gets results...results that are
net positive for America in general, I believe. Bernie's got ideas,
but they're not too fleshed out, and he doesn't really have a
record of getting things through/building consensus. What he's
most got going for himself, I think, is personality. He has that
quirky persona that millennials seem to adore, and he knows
how to push every single "nostalgia" button of the aged
hippy/boomer. Other than that, his only other big defining
characteristic, for me, is the "socialist" self-label, which,
by the way, I have no problem with. Those people that
deride socialists apparently don't notice that aspects of
socialism are, and have been, well ingrained in American
society, so not really a big deal at all (though, I guess that
he touts it is a big deal).

I don't hate him, I don't disrespect him personally...-though,
I'll admit, in this primary bullshit that DU and the rest of...everything,
is caught up in, I have said some rude politically based things about him
(nothing personal, as far as I can remember). Hey, I'm human.
I just don't have the "Bern" for him.

[in_cog_ni_to]

97. This place kissed his feet when he spoke out AGAINST the Iaq War and voted AGAINST the IWR.

Now he's Satan incarnate.

And, like you said, they love him when he caucuses with Democrats...especially when they have extremely even numbers in the Senate. His vote sure comes in handy! Yeah, they love him then.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[ChisolmTrailDem]

100. I know right! nt

[onecaliberal]

127. ^^That^^. Don't hear anyone bitching about him not being a dem

The other thing is the ACA that is supposedly so awesome would NOT have passed without his vote in the senate.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

131. I'm sure there are other instances where Sanders' vote was our saving grace. I'm about to receive..

...company so I'm not going to go look it up but he did vote with us the vast majority of the time and certainly against the rethugs and the shrub and against the Neocons and cheney. Hillary voted for those guys' shenanigans, at great and grave cost to lives and treasures.

[onecaliberal]

136. I agree, just pointed that one out because ACA is supposedly POTUS crowning achievement.

Hillary's vote on Iraq war disqualifies her in the minds of many. Judgement is far too poor to consider her for the White House.

[uberblonde]

122. I remember...

When DU wasn't exactly like a sixth-grade lunchroon.

Those were the days!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

135. Man, I couldn't tear myself away from DU for like the first year! I was...

...blown away at the intelligence and righteousness here. But I was sure I'd be signing up directly to the NSA if I joined DU, lol. I was just sure this site was being monitored and I watched for some time to see if people that participated here were disappeared. It took a loooong time before I felt it was safe enough to join, lol.

But wow, what a bastion of knowledgeable sanity it was here back then. The essays were so good and I learned a lot more than I had from any other single source of information that matched my views of the world.

Those were the days, indeed, uberblonde!

[Politicub]

137. Uhm - it's a political race

The same people who swear by their purity rings would feel at home with the more - how shall I say it - enthusiastic Sanders' supporters.

[retrowire]

139. I'm not surprised. nt

[murielm99]

143. Many of us still like Bernie,

or at least we did until he decided to run for President. Preferring Clinton is not "shredding" Bernie. Neither is criticizing him, or pointing out his flaws and weaknesses.

Bernie is an independent who caucused with the Democrats. He is not Presidential material, and cannot win the general.

That is not shredding. That is truth. Stop whining because everyone does not worship your chosen one.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

145. I was with you until you got shitty and shredded me and Bernie in your...

...last sentence.

You prove my point. Thank you.

[murielm99]

147. Wah! Wah! Wah!

Bernie supporters are so thin skinned.

[SammyWinstonJack]

164. And there you have it. They liked him UNTIL he decided to run for president. Against their chosen

How dare he!

[ChisolmTrailDem]

169. It really is pathetic, SWJ. Head-shakingly pathetic. nt

[Recursion]

205. I don't know anybody who dislikes him; there are plenty of people who prefer a different candidate

I don't know why so many Sanders supporters seem to take that so personally. If I took it personally when people preferred somebody to O'Malley I'd have to hate the entire country.

[uponit7771]

174. +1, if Sanders wins the primaries I'm all in getting him into the white house. I prefer Clinton

[dorkzilla]

148. Who cares?

Fuck them. Just put all that energy into helping Bernie get elected.

[Duval]

149. It really makes no sense, until someone pointed out that

it wasn't until he decided to run for President that the negatives began here. I have been a fan for years, listening to him on Thom Hartmann's show on FSTV. Bernie fielded questions from a diverse group of people and always stayed true to his belief that we, as Americans, can do better. If we don't support him, I think we'll only continue the anger and the drift away from a party that has left me feeling betrayed. Yes, it would be nice to have a woman for our President. That woman, who would make changes that actually help Dems move back to their base, is Elizabeth Warren, not Hillary.

[capitolalb]

150. Winning the White House with a Socialist ?

Not a winning strategy in America. Can't wait to see the GOP attacks on television, if Bernie is nominated.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

151. And what's wrong with a Democratic Socialist, exactly? nt

[farleftlib]

157. More like stabbed him in the back

The hatred and malice coming from Hillary fans is scathing.

[capitolalb]

163. Think it's bad now ?

Wait until the general campaign, if Sanders is elected. Sanders will be beaten to a pulp by the GOP.

[farleftlib]

165. Let them.

He's being bashed pretty badly and so far it's all just bouncing off.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

167. Won't do them any good due to the stark contrast between their agenda and Bernie's. Put the...

...two side-by-side and the choice will be obvious no matter how the GOP attempts to scare the people. Bernie is offering hope and prosperity and fairness. The GOP is offering dystopia.

[Vinca]

194. Bernie can take it.

If you think back to 2008 Obama was called everything including a noncitizen of the country. Nasty, racist emails were all over the place and Jeremiah Wright played on a loop 24/7 for about a week. It's not the amount of crap thrown, it's the content. People can distinguish BS from reality.

[beam me up scottie]

195. We expect it from Republicans, it's the fragging that's disturbing.

[musicblind]

218. I am a Hillary supporter who greatly admires Sanders.

However, I don't see many Sanders supporters who greatly admire Hillary.

This is sad. Both have done so many admirable things for our country and our party.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

221. That's because the people who do not greatly admire Hillary don't admire her...

...decision to side with the warmongering Neocons to go to war against a country that had zilch to do with 9/11. Also, we don't greatly admire her being owned by corporations, insurance companies, the MIC, and Wall Street.

[treestar]

225. So we are continuing with the illogical theme that we must

feel the same way about all politicians at all times?

And we can't still love Bernie but support someone else?

How is it "stabbing Bernie in the back" to support someone else? I thought it was Hillary that was so "entitled?"

[workinclasszero]

240. We have failed to see the Deity in this great man, we should gaze on his magnificence and worship...

LOL screw that!

GO HILLARY!!!!