She says, "HOW CAN OBAMA BE WINNING?"

[Drunken Irishman]

I was at the grocery store tonight and was putting my groceries into the back of the car when some lady, who had just pulled up next to me, noticed my Obama sticker.

I could tell right away she didn't like it. She was in a minivan and in the rear window were those annoying family decals that represent every member of their clan. I don't know if you've seen 'em, but they're big among Mormons here in Utah. Anyway, at that point, I knew she was probably a Romney supporter. Sure enough...

She walks by me and smugly says, "Obama's ruining this country."

I laugh and turn to her and say, "Yes, because this country was running just smoothly in 2008, right?"

No answer. She just nodded her head in disagreement and then told me that Romney would make such a fine president. I smiled and told her that she shouldn't try to convince me, I was absolutely for certain going to vote Obama. She didn't like that answer much and then started attacking his policies, parroting the FOX News lie about how gas is up compared to four years ago, more people are on food stamps compared to four years ago and unemployment is up compared to four years ago. I then asked her, bluntly, "...and what happened four years ago?"

She paused, thought about it and then replied, "Well, the economy went under..."

"Bingo," I said.

"Well, that was four years ago! He's had four years to fix this mess!"

"Why?"

She looked at me blankly as she tried to process the message.

"What do you mean ... why?" she asked.

"I mean, how do you know he should have fixed this all in four years? Why do you think that?"

She didn't have an answer. She looked positively stumped. Finally, she said, "Because..."

Then she mumbled something and started walking off before turning back to me and saying, loudly, "I don't get it ... how can Obama be winning? He's got to be cheating! Who are these idiots who support him?"

I then lightly replied as she walked away, "Have you ever thought maybe it's you who's the idiot?"

She gave me a death glare as she entered the store.

[NCLefty]

1. Love it.

Especially asking them why he had to have fixed it in 4 years. It's a question worth repeating. Economic disasters don't conform to American political timelines. And we all know under which party's watch it occurred.

[SharonAnn]

35. It took "W" 8 years to break it. Takes longer to fix it.

It always takes longer to build something than it takes to destroy it.

So if it took 8 years to break it, seems like it would take even longer to fix it.

[garthranzz]

2. Why four years?

Because Republicans in Congress did everything they could to extend the financial crisis in order to make Obama look bad.

We should be surprised by this approach. Nixon extended Vietnam War 4 years so he could get re-elected.

Bush invaded (was told to) Iraq so he could get re-elected. The corporatists needed to hide the stolen election and divert attention from 9/11 incompetence and solidify the power and money suck.

[magical thyme]

20. The Iraq invasion wasn't about securing W's re-election

It was about PNAC's long-standing plan to hijack the US military for world domination and control of oil by a small group of 1%ers. Iraq was #1 on PNAC's list of countries it targeted for invasion and occupation. Afghanistan was #2 on their list.

Jeb is a member of PNAC, as are Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfewitz (who drafted the plan) and other notorious members of W's national security team. They put their plan in front of Poppy, and he rejected it. They whitewashed it some and tried Clinton, who rejected it. And then they got W installed and took over.

9/11 was the answer to PNAC's prayers. Their plan depended on a "Pearl Harbor" type of event as an excuse (Pearl Harbor was their words, not mine). All they had to do was reverse the order of invasion, moving Afghanistan to #1 and Iraq to #2, and then try to fake Iraqi involvement. When their attempts to link Iraq were proved lies, they had to improvise with WMDs to get us in there, and when that proved lies, it becamebring "democracy and freedom" to Iraq.

Their written plan gave birth and lent credibility to the LIHOP and MIHOP theories that persist to this day.

I remember the horror I felt the first time I read their website and plan, sometime in early '03. This was a whitewashed version and still horrifying. I only regret I didn't screen capture or print it out and save it, along with their membership list, because I checked back a couple years later and they had whitewashed it further.

[stevenleser]

25. It was about both of those things and more. It was on different peoples agenda for different reasons

Rove clearly knew that no President had failed to be re-elected in wartime. Wolfowitz and the rest of the PNAC gang had various ridiculous beliefs about what that war would mean and pushed for it for their reasons. Cheney and his crew wanted the oil and contracts.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

54. Actually, the Iraq Invasion was a mid-term election issue....

Every Dem was told to either vote for it or be accused of being un-American.

[magical thyme]

56. oh, the election was used as a way to ram the war down our throats

by forcing the dems to vote in favor of it, but there is no question that it had been planned many, many years in advance by Jeb, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfewitz, and the rest of the PNAC crew.

As I wrote above, they proposed it to Poppy and to Clinton. Getting W installed as President was the first step to making their plan happen.

I truly wish I had screen captured their website at the time. They had a long list of countries they intended to invade and takeover, in order. Iraq was #1 and Afghanistan was #2.

The only reason they didn't make it to #3 (most likely Iran, but I don't remember for sure any more) was because the wars weren't the cakewalk the armchair warriors fantasized.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. Bottom line: Republicans don't CARE about facts. They just care about power.

...and actually, if you remember, the Republicans had spent the last couple of years railing about Clinton's foreign adventures and were all about NOT imposing American values on the rest of the world. Bush at a debate with Gore said, "I don't think it's the role of the United States to say, 'we do things this way and so should you.'"

All that changed when Bush went to Cheney to pick his Vice-President and Cheney picked himself.

Then Cheney got the PNAC gang together and told Dubya they were going to finish the job his father started in the Gulf War and also repeated the lie that Saddam tried to kill his dad. The Bush Family has had "Babs" running it and Dubya wanted her to think he was better than his daddy. Cheney knew this and used it easily because he also knew Bush was a fucking idiot with a "I hate you daddy because you sleep with my mommy" psychosis.

Cheney got the folks behind "team B" during the Reagan years and put them in charge at the Pentagon. These were the people known as "The Crazies" within the Pentagon. Their first act was to purge the generals who refused to go along.

Notice we didn't hear SQUAT from "Stormin' Norman"? That's because he was dead set against the invasion.

9/11 was their "Pearl Harbor" and it doesn't really matter if it was a LIHOP or MIHOP or incompetence, they USED IT for their dreams of Empire and Bush was so stupid that he LOVED the idea and rejected advice from his father who he was told was a one term wimp.

NONE of these bastards cared about either the reputation of the United States or the innocent people in the Middle East they were slaughtering. It was all about the oil.

[magical thyme]

80. Exactly.

And thanks to another DUer, I've found the old PNAC site archives. Tons of documents to sift through. Hopefully I'll find the ones I remember....

W didn't believe we should be telling other countries to how to live, but PNAC did. I'm wondering if Jeb, who was on PNAC from its inception, suggested to W that he hire Cheney to pick his VP, and started the ball rolling that way?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

82. I know Daddy Bush HATED the whole crew,...

....but then, he was the CIA guy under Nixon so he saw them for what they were. He also saw them pull their "Spin The Intelligence" game back during the Reagan Years when he was Vice President.

A lot of is felt that Daddy Bush was actually the "Power Behind The Curtain" during the Reagan Years. Basically, he played the roll Cheney did which effectively means Daddy Bush had been at the helm for 12 years. After eight years away under Clinton, I bet he expected to jump back into the saddle under Dim Son. The funny thing is, Dubya was probably told to "show his dad he's all grown up" by rejecting his manipulation in favor of getting manipulated by the Neocons.

[amuse bouche]

64. Thanks for that explanation

I just remember bursting into tears when they said Bush won. I knew he wanted to attack Iraq. I just
can't remember why I knew that

[JHB]

66. Afghanistan wasn't necessarily #2, it just had to be high on the list because of Al Queda...

I don't have time to properly research it right now, but remember the wording of the resolution? It wasn't limited to Iraq, it kept the door open for other action in Syria, Iran, etc. If their domino-chain of unlikely assumptions about the Iraq invasion had fallen their way, they would have ginned up an excuse to move on to the next target.

[magical thyme]

68. I don't remember the exact wording

I just remember the list that I saw on the PNAC site was #1. Iraq #2. Afghanistan, #3. #4. #5. were Iran, Syria, Libya, etc. in some order.

No, the order wasn't a requirement in the final analysis, but how they envisioned it going according to their plan.

So when 9/11 happened, they switched the order and started with Afghanistan. And then ginned up the excuse(s) for Iraq.

And yes, absolutely, if Iraq had been the cakewalk they planned, there would have been an excuse to go on to #3. and then #4. and so on.

[mountain grammy]

72. It's hard to keep up with these guys

I knew Wolfewitz, Cheney, and Rumsfeld were buddies in one of their secret cabal organizations, but PNAC is new to me. Thanks for giving me the info.. what a creepy organization with an idealistic view of war and domination. We will be welcomed as heroes. Oh my God!

[Norrin Radd]

78. Here you go:

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20010915000000*/http://www.newamericancentury.org/

and:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020923154604/http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

The Pearl Harbor statement is on page 51.

You'll have to copy and paste the entire link; I don't know how to make Internet Archive links work here.

[magical thyme]

81. Wow! Great job! note the document is dated 9/2000.

"A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force
from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence, would be at odds with larger policy goals and would trouble American
allies.

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor. "

[DemKittyNC]

3. " She just nodded her head in disagreement and then told me that Romney would make such a fine...

President"

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[Cosmocat]

11. he is, literally, a buffoon

I think Barrack Obama has done a pretty darn good job as president.

I can get that some might not think as highly of him.

I can also get that people who are prone to having a football fan perspective of politics, where their party is right and the other is wrong, always, would be capable of not being able to accept that he has been at worst a solid president.

I really struggle to understand how they gin themselves up into believing that President is as bad as they gin themselves up to believe. It just is so divergent from reality.

I have no capacity at all to understand how at this point someone would think that Romney would be a good president. Beyond being wildly incompetent with his campaign, he has shown himself to perhaps the worst candidate for President in history in terms of LITERALLY telling whoever he is talking to what they want to hear, regardless of how is the direct opposite of what he said moments earlier. Further, beyond what we know about his sainted private business experience, his record as governor was pretty darn weak, so weak, he actually did not run for reelection.

[lib2DaBone]

73. Not to differ.. No Romney... but what about NDAA?

Why would Obama want to put innocent Americans in Military prisons with no trail and no lawyer?

We must remember he put this thru on New Years Eve when no one was watching.....

Would a Representative of the people do this?

[Heather MC]

4. Why

can't these people understand We are suppose to have elections and choose leaders. Without the process what kind of country do we have? They act like the elections are merely a front, in the end only a repugnant Republican is suppose to win.

[nolabels]

5. Yea, how can Obama be winning?

The math is if Obama is winning then somebody is losing. To think the only thing left would be for somebody to be taken hostage, but of course they have already used that multiple times in the last thirty-some years. I really couldn't tell if anyone here was an idiot or not but i could tell you "We the People" are a whole lot smarter than in years past for some reason

[ejpoeta]

9. she's right though. how can obama be winning. all the talking heads

keep saying how usually with unemployment numbers like this and the people hurting, they usually blame the president. he should be struggling. why isn't he? because mitt romney is a terrible candidate and no one believes him because he is a LIAR! him and ryan are both liars. romney wouldn't be a good president. he's a terrible candidate.... how the hell would he be a good president!

[DFW]

6. Ah, but in Romneyworld....

That is what passes for logic.

*on edit--and her death stare is what passes for civility!

[mnhtnbb]

7. I LOVE it!

[littlemissmartypants]

8. Well Done, Sir!

[keroro gunsou]

10. how is he winning?

simple math.

[Delmette]

43. Arithmetic strikes again!

[Bad Thoughts]

12. How did Republicans delude themselves into thinking this would be easy?

It seems like there's some notion among Republicans that Obama would be easily defeated. Not that he can't be, but why can they not realize his advantages and their flaws?

1. He is obviously the incumbent.

2. They did not really run against Obama in 2010. They ran against a straw man with a low-information electorate. They were bound to have a weaker case against the real Obama with a more informed electorate.

3. Margins of victory in 2010 were not that big.

4. The Tea Party model worked better in smaller elections rather than nationwide elections.

5. The GOP ruined its brand with the debt crisis, threats to social services and obsession over gynecological services.

6. Their presidential candidate would necessarily be a slave to Tea Party paranoia.

7. Most of their presidential candidates should have be certified insane.

8. 2008 was that shittiest year in recorded memory. Asking "if you are better off ..." would automatically work in Obama's favor.

9. The GOP rejected it's only sane candidate for a puppet in a suit.

I think republicans need to stop believing their own press.

[Chiyo-chichi]

13. about the family decals...

My daughter, who is in college, sent this to me because her little brother and I often improvise comedic riffs about the stick figure families we find ourselves behind.



I wouldn't put it on my car, because of... well... the implication of murder... but it's kinda funny.

Kudos to you for fighting the good fight in Utah.

[gkhouston]

14. LOL! Hubby saw one once, where one of the "kids" was a Dalek. n/t

[Chiyo-chichi]

21. Now, THAT, I might put on my car.

We are all big fans of the Doctor.

[csziggy]

36. OK, I went looking for those

Found:

Star Wars: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/eea6/

Zombie: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/eba2/

Ghostbuster: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/eea2/

"Engineered by Firefly Vehicle Decal": http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e6e8/

Some good ones on a Pinterest page: http://pinterest.com/tkantonucci/stick-figure-families/

And finally Dalek family with dog (K9!): http://www.etsy.com/listing/102987966/dalek-family-with-dog-decal?ref=exp_listing

Etsy has some good Doctor items: http://www.etsy.com/search?includes[0]=tags&q=doctor+who+decal&page=1

Like this 2012 campaign bumper sticker:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/95292004/doctor-who-the-master-saxon-2012?ref=sr_gallery_9&ga_includes[0]=tags&ga_search_query=doctor+who+decal&ga_page=1&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

[gkhouston]

38. Bwah! I love the bumpersticker. n/t

[DebJ]

75. How cool, thanks! My Facebook friends are enjoying those links! n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

46. I considered putting some on my car when I first saw them all over.

I was going to get me, and fifty cats.....figured that everyone would worry about my sanity and leave me alone.

BTW, I don't have fifty cats, but it would have been fun.

[Jennicut]

15. Why are decal family people usually right wingers?

I know one in my blue state of Connecticut. So annoying. Almost as annoying as those people with the ribbons all over their car.

And how can Obama be winning? Because the Republicans have nothing to offer but Mr. 47%, which pretty much sums up their entire party.

[treestar]

16. A right winger of my acquaintance saw one with a whole lot of kids

A set of parents and like 12 kids. RW objected to that or found something wrong with it. Which is odd - I think RW assumed they were all on welfare or something. It could have been the Duggars or the like!

[Jennicut]

17. Oh no! All those dependent kids.

RWers never make any sense, do they?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

23. And they'll all be on their parents insurance under Obamacare!!!

Oh noes!!!

[lunatica]

19. They went forth and procreated

They're just doing what the Bible tells them to do.

[lunatica]

18. Obama's secret winning strategy

Arithmetic

[patrice]

28. also, "Why?" and "How?" nt

[mzmolly]

22. Bravo to you, my Irish friend!

[hrmjustin]

24. how dare obama for be ahead

[patrice]

26. NOT in the habit of thinking why she thinks something. Bet HOW is beyond her ken too. nt

[patrice]

27. e.g. HOW one "fixes" several 100s of trillions lost in the '08 Derivative Crash. nt

[The Doctor.]

29. That's how it's done.

Ask questions, watch them flail.

[Teamster Jeff]

30. The Fox News bubble is going to burst big time in November

[Dawson Leery]

31. Prejudice. I have met these types.

The underlying problem with them is prejudice. She is a highly partisan Republican who believes only Republicans should be allowed to have power. I was raised in a town with these kinds of people. They are the first to scream about "freedom", yet when the "others" are empowered with the same rights, people such as this woman you speak about scream that their rights are being taken away.

[cilla4progress]

32. Sorry you have to deal with this

level of hostility in your own neighborhood! Must be disconcerting!

[SunSeeker]

33. "Have you ever thought maybe it's you who's the idiot?"

Ba Boom!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. Never forget: Four (4) YEARS of deliberate Republican Legislative obstruction, malice aforethougt.nt

[ElboRuum]

37. You know it's your parting shot that doesn't get said enough.

"Have you ever thought maybe it's you who's the idiot?"

It's just so basic. Because it really just cuts to the heart of it all.

Every time someone who does their own shopping, rather having their maid or their nanny do it, you know, someone who does not live in the lap of luxury, says they are a Romney supporter, I think are you really this stupid? What does this guy OFFER you?

He's made it no secret that he's got contempt for you.
He's made it clear that he throws his lot in with the very people who destroyed the economy, making your life harder.
He pays less as a percentage of his yearly accrual of wealth in taxes than you do.
He and his running mate have put everything in the social safety net that is to help you on the table while taking any increase in societal burden to the rich off.
He thinks you are lazy if you work multiple shitty jobs just to live because you don't make enough to pay any of it to taxes.
He embraced health care reform when it was good for him politically, now distances himself from it because it no longer is.
The length and breadth of his business experience is in the same vulture capitalist, financial chicanery, zero economic value added BULLSHIT that's been the "new economics" of the past thirty years.

He offers you YOUR OWN FUCKING DEMISE AS A WORKING CLASS PERSON, and you say THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER.

You MUST be either an idiot or so consumed with your own particular brand of irrational, self-gratifying hate to cast your vote for a man who is essentially daring you to vote him in so he can fuck you over, along with your parents, your children, your spouse, and everyone else who you might hold dear.

And they think they're doing the right thing.

[NICO9000]

65. This is a brilliant post!

You really said it all and only an idiot would disagree with your points.

[citizen blues]

39. Since you're in Utah....

You can also use the fact that Senator Orrin Hatch who is up for re-election this year is one who voted FOR sending our young people to war then turned around and voted AGAINST the Veterans Jobs Bill.

Way to go on supporting our troops, Orrin! NOT

[busterbrown]

40. Do Irishmen drink Vodka? Great Job.

UNPAID FOR BY BUSH ADMINISTRATION............ Passed on to Obama.
1) Afgan War
2) Iraq War
3) Bush Tax Cuts
4) Medicare Part D Program

This is my list which I carry around in my wallet..
I always forget to bring these numbers up when being confronted by lies.
I wonder just exactly how much these 4 items cost? Plus Interest?

[speedoo]

41. Nice job handling that idiot. Nm

[DirtyDawg]

42. The difference...

...between you and me is that when she uttered her first comment about Obama ruining the country, I'd have said 'STFU bitch' and gone on about my business...but, again, that's just me.

[lunasun]

53. ditto along with a dirty look

shoo fly

[proud patriot]

44. SWEET !

beautifully done

[EVDebs]

45. Evangelicals are discovering the evil ideology of selfishness behind the Romney/Ryan/Rand ticket

See Chuck Colson's comments at

Paul Ryan, Ayn Rand, and the Church of Satan

[George II]

47. You could have said that Obama's "four years" aren't up yet, he still has time!

Or, you could have said that bush destroyed the country in less than 8 months, or........oh there are SO many "or"-s that they can't dispute with reality.

[Baitball Blogger]

48. They are getting very confrontational.

I didn't see this in the W years. They are getting in your face and saying the most outrageous things.

[Dawson Leery]

59. I experienced worse than this during the Bush years.

Especially between 9/11 and Katrina.

[locdlib]

49. i was trying to say

it's fun to watch the gotp try to process truth and logic. they just cannot do it.

[liberalmuse]

50. Good job!

I miss the streets full of mini vans, suvs and kids running amok in public places. NOT. I do miss the Uintah's and the sun, though.

[DainBramaged]

51. Been there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021403078


I guess I just suck more.....

[nicoleawfp]

52. We need to do everything we can...

This election is going to have a huge impact on the future, and we need to do everything we can to re-elect President Obama. Anyone who wants to do more should check out Work for Progress, which is hiring short-term Campaign Associates to send to Colorado (and other swing states) to spend the last few weeks of the election educating voters, turning people out to the polls, and ultimately helping President Obama win. To find out more or apply, call 617-209-WORK or email your resume to [link:mailto:[e-mail]|Patrick].

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[cbayer]

83. Welcome to DU, nicoleawfp, and thanks for the info.

[Genghis_Sean]

55. Don't knock the car decals...I have them too!

[link:http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=4330536017600&set=pb.1113216873.-2207520000.1349052752&type=1&theater|

[Kennah]

57. This makes perfect sense to me

Fox News told her what to think. They did not tell her why.

[Gman]

58. You played it perfectly. Kudos

I'm putting that line "Have you ever thought maybe it's you who's the idiot?" in my back pocket for later use.

[ErikJ]

60. I respond, "I guess the GOP TRIPLING the record for FILIBUSTERS didnt have anything to do with it?"

"EH?" THat pretty much shits em down when they ask why he hasnt fixed it yet.

[CoffeeCat]

61. She was stumped...

...because you went off of the Fox News talking points.

These nimrods from hell don't know a damn thing. Fox gives them the talking points, and suddenly Marge from Walla Walla and Robbie Rae from Des Moines are experts in the machinations in the Middle East and they're also economists. Never mind the fact that they're uneducated and completely incapable of understanding anything unless it's a 10-second soundbyte from Fox.

Go off the Fox script...and they're eyes glaze over.

Kudos to you. You stood up to her and you didn't even have to engage or have a lot of information memorized. You just point out how they're thinking is flawed and their heads implode.

Fox News is a cult...plain and simple.

Again, thank you for walking the walk. So sick of these bullies--who are so fired up with their lies from Fox News. They are an abomination and they need to be put in their place with reality every so often.

[Plucketeer]

62. We live in a BLOOD RED part

of California. My old Camry has several Obama and other leftist stickers on the rear window. As I was filling up the other day, a fellow gas buyer came running over to exclaim how inspiring it was to see all the stickers on my rear window. She thanked me - even tho I didn't see it as such a big deal. But that moment "sunk in" on me as the day went by.

[ailsagirl]

63. Wow, you're brave

I'd be afraid to turn my back on anyone who was that nuts. And what a nerve she had, initiating a conversation disparaging the President!! But, touche to you.

There ain't no way no how ANYONE can turn around the abysmal economy in only one term-- that stands to reason, since it took the bastards EIGHT YEARS to trash it!!

I could see it taking eight years to repair four years' worth of damage, but definitely not the opposite.

[Pakid]

67. I love it Nice job on the right-wing nut

Have you ever thought maybe it you who's the idiot. and her answer is WHO ME!

[davidpdx]

70. HA!

I would have been there leaning against my car when she came out saying, "Have you thought of an answer yet?" Then said, "While yo are thinking about that think about how bad it's going to feel when Obama defeats Romney in a few weeks". Then I would have gotten in my car and left her sitting there fuming.

[The Wielding Truth]

71. I love that you were so logically perfect. Facts are hard to present to the brainwashed.

[DebJ]

74. Thank you. I wil sleep better tonight knowing you are out there somewhere in the world!

[Gal Friday]

76. I have an honest question

What do I call someone from Utah? I'm serious. New Hampshirites, Minnesotans, Arizonans, Washingtonians, etc. But what about Utah people?

[Hyper_Eye]

77. Demonym for a resident of Utah...

Utahn or Utahan... look along the information on the right side: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah

You can find the demonym at Wikipedia for most places.

[Gal Friday]

79. Thanks

I love penguins!

[hamsterjill]

84. You handled this all very well!

Congratulations on being cool under pressure.

It always astounds me how very vile these people are. They cannot STAND the fact that someone might actually disagree with them. I mean, imagine, confronting someone you don't even know in a parking lot. Pretty desperate, if you ask me.

[Bake]

85. That was good. I wouldn't have been as nice as you were.

Why do Rethugs think we're entitled to their opinion? You were a total stranger to her. I would NEVER do that. But Thugs do it every day.

Really pisses me off, and I'm tired of being nice about it.

Bake