2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMy wife's response to Bernie
My wife was a bit more active but not so much anymore. She is quite aware of Bernie and likes him. When I told her he was 74 years old her reply was " are you kidding me'?. She then so eloquently put it "He has no chance in the general"and he is just too old. I personally think Hilary is pushing it. We have an ageism problem in this country and it is not going away.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/02/bernie-sanders-crushed-hillary-clinton-by-70-points-among-young-people-in-iowa-but/
Nitram
(22,671 posts)Not directed at the candidates, but at Clinton supporters.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Of course, I have been accused of being childish myself so I know what it's like.
artislife
(9,497 posts)of the young supporters feeling like the generation that was robbed. The boomer generation had it all. Good public schools, affordable college and a job market to get into at entry level. They had minimum wage jobs that would pay of $20 an hour in today's world and inherited wealth. They had a chance to do business with a clean environment and clean food supply. They also have SS and pensions to help with their old age.
If I were 24 and conscious, I would look at the planet and the economics that was left for me and I would be angry, too.
As an Xer, I take the blame for this shitty reality along with the older generations. We didn't fight enough to elect people who thought about the nation as a whole and what would be good for everyone for generations. We are always focusing on small, short term goals that have set this world off track and towards death of species everywhere.
I don't think it has to do with actual age, but what generations did at the cost of the future of the young. We screwed up. Mortally.
Nitram
(22,671 posts)I participated in nuclear attack drills in elementary school during the Cuban missile crisis. We all filed out into the halls and assumed the position. Was told not to eat the snow because atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons was still taking place. Our president was assassinated when I was in middle school. Registered for the draft on my 18th birthday and was in a lottery to decide whether I'd be shipped of to Vietnam. I graduated from college in the during the oil crisis. It was the middle of a recession and jobs were hard to find. Our parents actually had it better. They started with the Depression and WWII, and then things just got better and better. Many of them were able to retire early. I won't be retiring at 65 because I can't afford to.
artislife
(9,497 posts)My generation and your generation as a whole did nothing to improve things. Not enough.
Don't even compare to perceived threats in school during your childhood to real threats in school for today's students. Between mold, over crowding and oh yeah...death by gun, today's kids have it far worse than ducking and covering.
Nitram
(22,671 posts)...sent to die in Syria or wherever. As for not improving things, I beg to differ. Civil rights, women's rights and even LGBT rights made gains on our watch. I agree, it is never enough, and much work remains to be done. But we've kept the ball moving forward in spite of a conservative backlash against the unrest of the 60s that has made it an uphill battle.
But enough about the generational divide. My point is not to criticize millennials or any other generational cohort. My point is that we are all in this together - instead of pointing fingers, we should be working together to get it done. If we disagree on methods and means, that's okay, but let's not tear each other down. We have a common enemy in the GOP, and that is more important than differences among us.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Nitram
(22,671 posts)I just don't think it is meaningful to put it in terms of how much worse one generation has it than another. They each have their own unique advantages and disadvantages. Always have.
6chars
(3,967 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)but anyone who is approaching retirement knows. It does concern people who are older because they realize the difference from even 40- to 60. I am 64 in good shape and mentally sharp but if you ask me if I'm as quick as I was when I was 30 or physically close to 30 it makes me laugh.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I don't think this is a problem for either.
monmouth4
(9,664 posts)wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)that is a total joke.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Because today, at 70, you're just as many years away from retirement as you used to be at 50.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)retirement age was 65 in 1970 and it is 85 now?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)eom
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)just a man with a golden heart. He doesn't have to pretend he cares it just comes out of him so easily. I think he will be a great President and I will be so happy to help elect him in any way I can.
But I thought later ...... that man could have been a shooting victim. Sanders had no idea at the time, there was just a loud 'crack'. That scared me a bit. But, you can't stop a good person from what they just naturally respond to.
Mike__M
(1,052 posts)going to have their hands full, I think.
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)These guys aren't running for one term, right? Look at how the job grinds down much younger people. It's just common sense to factor in a candidate's age for this office once they are north of 70.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Age does catch up with one, especially when living a stressful life. I don't think it will be much of a factor in the primary, but just wait until a young Rubio or Cruz pushes the ageism meme.
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)It's not ageist to acknowledge a fact.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)The same thing happened, to our advantage, when Obama ran against McCain.
BeyondGeography
(39,283 posts)for many causal voters (and most of them in a GE are casual, I'm afraid). The running mate choice will help address that.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Trump is 69, so, if he is their nominee, age won't factor into things.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)Having been together with hubby 54 years, I agree that Sanders is too old to hold office. Even those still in great shape in their mid 70s face an almost daily challenge to maintain that health and stamina. I've seen too many healthy friends be here today and bedridden or gone tomorrow . The fight that Sen Sanders is going to have with the Repubs would rattle even a much younger president. This is typified by the change in Pres. Obama's appearance . The future belongs to the young and they deserve a President that will be here to complete a term.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)He's the youngster-hipster-president you seek ...
GO Teenager Presidential Candidate !!
artislife
(9,497 posts)And as someone said, the best looking.
We should all vote for him.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)72-year old dad totally disagrees with you.
AND
He's a kidney cancer survivor with a bout of PE thrown in... Healthier than he's ever been in his life, running circle's around me.
Depends upon the person.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)and see what he says
polly7
(20,582 posts)Could you possibly be any more unrealistic?
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)and 72 is 72. If he runs circles around you then you better do something about yourself. It is not conceivable that a 72 and could do better than a 45 year old in most circumstances.
polly7
(20,582 posts)for some than others. Both show very high intelligence and ability to think logically and quickly.
I hope you're not expecting either one of them to tote their own suitcases around airports and jog back and forth from their home to the White House.
Oops ........ d'oh. They will be living at the WH ....... ok, back and forth - anywhere.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)I tote mine around. Yesterday i took my suitcase (must have been 40 lbs and my backpack computer bag 20 lbs) and took the subway from 53rd and seventh ave. to wall street and met an attorney. that was up and down the stairs in the subway. I got off at Chambers street and walked to Broadway. then after the meetings i schlepped again to the subway up and down stairs and went to the Port Authority to catch a bus to laGuardia. The subways in NYC only have up escalators you have to walk downstairs.
Yes I had a rolling suitcase but I did have to drag this combo down the stairs and I did walk in the city.
So yeah if you are in shape you can do it.
when i was young I was cut.
I have never been of the opinion that either Bernie or Hilary were cut. that's like Bill being cut. He was a marshmallow man or as my friend used to say "a body that appears to have never done a push up"
polly7
(20,582 posts)They both seem to have great physical stamina so far - running to speeches, debates, fundraising ..... I'm amazed at how they're in different cities day after day doing it all over again. Neither one have chronic health problems - they both seem quite physically able. Did you catch Sanders running through the train station?
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)let's see what he looks like after a demanding exercise regimen. that is the real example. Like a twenty mile bike ride on hills at 16 miles an hour. That would be a much be look into him physically.
Hey, i don't think Hilary is any better.
polly7
(20,582 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)How on earth would you be able to judge their readiness?
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)and people being disabled does no mean they can't be in goo shape. Wheelchair marathons and wheelchair basketball abounds. Howver in this country you won't even be running if you are disabled because of image.
djean111
(14,255 posts)GOP candidate? Hillary is not that much younger than Bernie, plus she has had a stroke. I believe there is a family history there, too.
The thought of Hillary being in such a stressful job is frightening to me.
And then, of course, no matter how old Hillary is, or how much younger than bernie she is, i cannot vote for more war, the TPP, cluster bombs, increased H-1B visas, or fracking. Or the Wall Street tier. So, her age is moot.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)both to me are not the optimum age. Cruz is a total dick so age doesn't help him.
Tanuki
(14,893 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)In any event - it looks to me like she gets riled up really quickly. I am not comfortable with that.
But - she is pro-war, pro-TPP, pro-cluster bombs, pro-fracking, pro-increasing H-1B visas - so I was never going to be voting for her in the first place.
Tanuki
(14,893 posts)Didn't result in a stroke or neurological damage. Not sure what your point about "family history" is, but you might want to research the longevity of the parents of both candidates before you go too far out on that particular limb. Just sayin'.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Taft doing that. And FDR? How did he manage?
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)and before polio an excellent athlete. Still he was 51.
valerief
(53,235 posts)he ran 5 miles a day and lifted heavy golf bags as president? And what about Taft?
Admit it. There's no requirement that you mentioned for presidents. Just admit it. Fess up.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)They had to hide the fact that he was an invalid. Then he died 12 years later and was in pretty bad shape by 1943. Was it the ravages of polio no one knows but he is a really bad example.
Reagan was in great shape but his Alzheimer's was substantial. He was in terrible shape by 1986.No one was the least bit surprised when he said he didn't remember Iran contra.
I do worry two fold Bernie is absolutely at the top limits of age and I do worry that the repubs will kill him in the general. We do suffer from ageism in this country and Bernie is backed by the true believers in this party.
The issue of his age,"socialism", and jewish heritage will all come up in the general.
To think that it won't is just putting your had in the sand.
valerief
(53,235 posts)poor people.
I know he will be slaughtered by TV in the general. Thank heavens most of us who care enough to vote use the internet for our info and not TV.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)I voted for McGovern. that went well.
valerief
(53,235 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)activities.
Your mileage is not my father's.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)starting in 3 weeks.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I freely admit it. Which is why my father is a better Presidential candidate that I am.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)I haven't heard her say a word about it
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Isn't it a little strange to see these sentiments on Democratic Underground so often?
I really don't think most Democrats actually believe that or feel that way.
Just sayin...
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)you said and I quote "because he's a crusty old jew." This week he's too old. I can hardly wait for the next anecdotal and "eloquent" reason we can't elect Bernie.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)I said he would be perceived by the electorate that way and the republicans would hammer that home. You think otherwise?,
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)It's called anti-Semitism.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)I detest anti-Semites.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)Okay, i grew up in yonkers and my friends were the jewish clique in my high school. I am still in touch with them almost every day. Some have become relatively famous. One won about 10 emmys for Sesame street and one is a famous studio musician and has toured with the Stones and clapton. He was on the tonight show in '92 backing up Graham parker( keyboard player). Find the picture.
In the sixties the chinese and jewish people would become friends because they were basically outcasts.
I get very tired of this slur that i am an anti semite. I have far more jewish friends than most everyone on these boards. If anyone wants to private message me I probably get more detailed to whom my friends are. I spoke to them all last Friday as i was in Yonkers visiting some other friends whom I have know since 1957.
Yonkers had a very big jewish population. Look it up on wikipedia. My friends came from the greystone area off of North Broadway.
Sid caesar was from Yonkers as was the play "hello Dolly"
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Please distinguish that from "I have lots of black friends."
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)$1,000 bet to will show you my email string from my friends. My last one was on 1/24/2016. It had 13 jewish guys on it and that doesn't include another 6 or 7 on my facebook. Here is an idea.why don't you send me your facebook and I can prove it that way. Are you ready to spit up a grand?
I have known these guys since 1963. do you have the balls to lay out a $1,000.we can send it to an arbitrator and let him decide if the emails are valid. I'm ready when you are.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Having friends of a certain minority and having what you say about that minority be inappropriate isn't mutually exclusive.
I have a pretty major portion of my ethnicity as Polish. I grew up in an area of this country with a LOT of first and second generation Polish people. As a result, I and a lot of my childhood friends are solidly ethnically Polish (for me also Czech, but I digress). Every time I see the closest of those friends, I call him a stupid Polack. He replies with something similar. Now, iff one of my friends now in the German haven of Wisconsin called me a stupid Polack, it would not land the same way.
But you know all this, I'm sure.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)being referred to as an anti-Semite is not a slur.
Even Archie Bunker had a black friend, it didn't make him Ghandi.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)How about a $1,000 bet. I'll show you my email string that i get at least twice a week form my clique i graduated with. I met these guys in junior high school in 1963.
have known these guys since 1963. do you have the balls to lay out a $1,000.we can send it to an arbitrator and let him decide if the emails are valid. I'm ready when you are.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)I will put up a $1,000 and you do the same. I will show you my last email string which was on 1/24/2016. We will let an arbiter decide. My last eamil was one of my friends be came a grandfather. There are 13 jewish guys on the string. This is basically a guys club. I have an additional 6 or 7 jewish women I know on facebook.
Do you have the nerve to put up the money?
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)You are still relatively young with plenty of experience and plenty of energy. I was just at the biggest legal show in the U.S. It is 3 days non stop. High energy and everyone young and old are wiped out by the end. I had 11 meetings in 2 days plus walked the floor and went out at night socializing.
Age is a factor and unless you are at the point(older) that you start to realize how this affects you then you are oblivious to the realities of life. We do get old and we don't have the same energy.
Here is an example. When I was in my 30's i could run 5 miles in 35 minutes. I could walk 18 carrying a bag until I was 55. i still bicycle 15-20 miles a day and walk 18 on sunday with a cart
If you asked me to run 5 miles and walk 18 carrying a bag. I wince at the thought. Deal with reality.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Just a thought... /facepalm
Both Hillary and Bernie are incredibly intelligent and energetic people. Either will serve us well.
Deal with reality indeed.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)when he was first elected. deal with reality.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Deal with that reality.
And you moved those goalposts quite a distance there.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)so i know it first hand. We live in a society that does have ageism. It is part of America. To bury your head in the sand and not understand its realities nd how it is perceived in our society is bordering on foolishness on your part.
You don't think people will think about Reagan and his alzheimers when it is pounded everyday by the republicans. That is the reality. HRC is no spring chicken but for some odd reason age is not perceived as bad for women.
We make jokes about "get off my lawn" and man yells at clouds. We really don't have the equivalent with women.
For some odd reason it seems men go downhill faster.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)He obvioulsy didn't meet the qualifications of a "not old" person according to your own post.
You are the one that made claims about physical abilities being tied to age and the ability to run a country, not me.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)It is a rare bird that can handle that age. I'm pretty darn good but to compare myself to my 45 year old body is a joke. i am maybe 10 pounds over my college weight and my blood pressure is 122/80. i'm 64 and in a young man's profession Software where i am pretty unique.
I am known for my memory even among the young ones. However comparing myself from 20 years ago is a joke. I also have a full head of hair and some off it is still black. good genes. Most guess me at 55.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)done discussing anything with you.
Apparently your bigotry doesn't stop at age.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)I am chinese. i am 3rd generation. My grandmorther was arrested in 1910 for cavorting with chinese men(she was german) in springfield, Il. My dad wasn't allowed to swim in the public pools in St.Louis in the 30's. i grew up in a laundry and when we went to get a mortgage in 1962 with 45% down we were denied a mortgage from every bank except the bank of harlem.
Can you tell me when you experienced such discrimination in your life and family history?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Compare a 50 year of today to a 50 year old of yesteryear.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)It seems at times to be getting worse.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)marlakay
(11,370 posts)And is in better shape than a lot of people younger than him.
My mom who is 88 and worked until 80, last 4 years part time, thinks Bermie is great.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)but who cares. Just because you in better shape than a lot of people younger doesn't mean much. We are a country of fat overweight people. Look around look at the fatsos's in our country. look at diabetes and all the people on high blood pressure medicine.
Our sizes are even a joke. A men's medium is really a large.
When i was young medium was 5'10' 160 lbs. Now it is 5'10" and 175.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)gyroscope
(1,443 posts)I don't care how old he is, he seems to have more energy and enthusiasm for what he does than most people half his age!
frylock
(34,825 posts)wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)empty suit.
frylock
(34,825 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)I'm surprised Bernie got more traction than O'Malley.
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)when he was born?
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)believe!!?!!
GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)The MAX train that I took in and out was also packed with young people coming and going to and from the rally.
On the return trip I was holding my Bernie sign from the rally and it sparked numerous conversations with young people in the packed train.
They were intelligent, politically ngaged and very aware of the issues in this race and they were supporting Bernie.
Btw. There was an accident on a bridge near the Moda Center that resulted in passengers on the train having to get off and be bussed to the Center. This got me there much later then I expected. The line in front of the center stretched all the way around the front of the building several people deep. With a half hour to go I knew I that I wouldnt get in so I ran around to the other side of thlle building and got in line in a shorter line on that side. I was one of the last people to make it in before max capacity was reached.
There were 20,000 of us inside and 8,000 outside who couldn't get in. Many many young people were in attendance