Why is Hillary going to Flint? They need things done now, and she's not in office.

[ViseGrip]

So, why is time wasted here, when people have been poisoned?


I'm just wondering why those in office, and can APPROPRIATE funds are not invited??????


I find this strange, and smells like politicking still, with those city limits. What a shame.

[DanTex]

1. To bring more attention to the problem and put political pressure on those in office.

[2pooped2pop]

10. More like to bring attention to herself

And attempt to co-opt that tragedy into votes for herself.

[DanTex]

13. Another Rorschach test, I guess. Depends on how you see Hillary overall.

[pandr32]

50. You clearly are a cynic

And you have little knowledge about how Hillary Clinton has tried to help others for decades. Clean water has been a cause of many for the Clinton Foundation, which has been operating all along without "being in office."

[2pooped2pop]

91. Or is it just a pay to play pay station?

[pandr32]

119. I guess you have been giving some credibility to the debunked claims

...that the book "Clinton Cash" is responsible for. It was written by the same conservative nut case that claimed Disney was turning America gay, and his "Government Accountability Institute" (sounds heavy duty, huh?!!!) is funded by the Koch brothers.

[Ferd Berfel]

59. Call it effluence pedaling?

They're really gonna try to sell some shit this time

[840high]

99. yes

[treestar]

17. Exactly! Seriously, they are wanting the people of Flint to suffer

rather than Hillary get any credit for anything! It is reaching stages of absurdity not thought possible!

[restorefreedom]

21. personally, i would like to see her put similar pressure

on lawmakers to defeat the tpp. she has not acknowledged that she has lobbied even ONE lawmaker to vote against ratifying tpp. if she wants us to believe her statement that she doesn't like it, she needs to put some actions behind those words.

bernie has called for gov. to resign. glad both dems are trying to help flint.

[DanTex]

22. Well, she can only be in one place at one time, and she also has a campaign to run.

I don't care much about TPP, so I'm glad she's not expending effort on that front.

[restorefreedom]

23. It is a huge issue for many on the left.

And this issue has been around for months and months. Bernie is a full time senator, and he has time to fight tpp and campaign and speak out about flint.

of course, it could be that it is not an important issue to her.

[DanTex]

26. I've noticed that, but it isn't to me. I don't know how important an issue it is to her either,

but if it opposing it doesn't rank very high on her agenda, from my perspective that's fine and even a good thing.

But, yeah, a lot of the left disagrees with me on this. I think both sides of the trade debate make too much out of the effects of these agreements.

[restorefreedom]

75. the tpp seems to be particularly bad

which is why even people like trump oppose it. its another way the corporate interests will control governments and us. mainstream repubs, are of course, fine with it.

as the campaign moves on, i think you will see it take a more prominent place in the discussion.

[DanTex]

89. Trump opposing it says virtually nothing to me.

I haven't seen the actual text, I don't even know how much is public or has been leaked. So all I know is what others have said about it, and based on that, my opinion is "meh."

[restorefreedom]

92. if you have the time, i would recommend further research

i haven't seen it all, but what i have seen is quite appalling. i think it depends on how much one sees large companies to have increasing amounts of legal power regarding trade, and consumers and even sovereign governments to have less power and information.

if you ever look at it, i would be interested in your thougnts.

[DanTex]

96. OK. Yeah, admittedly I don't know details. I know of the extra-judicial arbitration stuff, the

generic drug provisions, and some of the other big objections, but mostly my opinion is driven by a more general belief that the effects of trade agreements are overstated, both by proponents and detractors.

[restorefreedom]

97. i think someone described it as nafta on steroids. guess its in the beholder. nt

[DanTex]

98. The thing with NAFTA, it's not clear to me that it had such a big impact.

There was a study showing that something like 800K jobs were lost to NAFTA. OK. Then I'll see a study that says that some huge number of jobs were created by NAFTA. It's really hard to determine whether those losses and gains were caused by NAFTA, or how much NAFTA is actually responsible for.

What's more, the economy was at or near full employment for many years after NAFTA was passed. And the employment level is more of a function of monetary policy than of specific trade agreements. Lowering interest rates will increase it, at the risk of inflation, and vice versa, trade agreement or not.

There's the argument that with NAFTA, we exchanged well-paying blue collar manufacturing jobs for McJobs in the service sector. That's plausible, but then again the deterioration of manufacturing started before that and would have continued even without it. We definitely have a problem with inequality, and creating better-paying jobs for middle and working-class people, but in my mind the argument that trade agreements are a major part of that isn't entirely convincing.

Maybe I'm wrong. I've read Stiglitz and Reich and other people like that who have a decidedly more negative view towards them than I do. Maybe I should read them again.

[restorefreedom]

106. one thing i am definitely not good at is the economy

so i read the thoughts of others like you have, and because my own economy chops are quite lacking, i rely at least partially on the assessments of others. reich is someone i trust a lot on these issues, always have. i have also looked at some of the language of the tpp. my own conclusion is that whatever net negative previous trade agreements have had or may have had on our jobs, the tpp is orders of magnitude more intense, and carries significant limitations for legal remedies of trade or consumer concerns. like you, i need to study further, but i am confident that in my case anyway, further study will only increase my distrust and concern.

i hope it is discussed more on the campaign. i suspect it will be an issue in the ge, unless repubs make the ge all about isis, which they will try to do.

[DanTex]

107. Whether it becomes an issue in the GE depends on who they (and we) nominate.

Trump and Cruz are against TPP, but Rubio voted for TPA.

[restorefreedom]

108. agreed. i have maintained that it will be trump,

and i still think he has a good chance, but wonderboy rubio is starting to worry me. but thats a whole nuther subject......

[treestar]

113. I actually believe that if she were to do as you request

the TPP would be of no importance whatsoever and she'd be considered heartless for not going out to Flint.

[restorefreedom]

115. its not an either or.

tpp has been on the discussion table for quite a while now and will continue to be. nothing stopping her from working the phones and reaching out. if she has so many congresspeople as endorsements, she should be leveraging that support big time to influence their vote on tpp. i am sure any one of them would take a call from her.

her refusal to even try is quite telling as to her real feelings about tpp.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

28. This reminds me of the people who cant ever seem to manage to give Obama

credit for anything.

So if she doesnt go, why didnt she?

etc

[basselope]

43. Her presence there accomplishes neither of those goals.

The problem is WELL KNOWN and her presence doesn't put any political pressure on anyone.

[DanTex]

48. The mayor of Flint disagrees with you and has praised Hillary on the topic.

[basselope]

76. The mayor who endorsed Hillary praised Hillary? WOW.. WHAT A SHOCK!

Politics as usual.

[DanTex]

77. It would seem to me that the mayor of Flint is in a better position than you to judge whether

Hillary's efforts there are useful. You know, because she's the, uhh, mayor of Flint.

And, yes, she endorsed Hillary. As have hundreds, probably thousands of elected Dems from all parts of the country and at all levels of government. They understand that she gets things done.

[basselope]

87. Yes, the establishment protects itself.

However, the establishment is also pretty lousy at "getting things done", which is why there is still a crisis in Flint.

[DanTex]

88. The mayor of Flint is now the "establishment"?

[still_one]

104. You are right of course Dan, but their hatred of Hillary is so intense

they won't see it

it is damn if Hillary does something or damn if she doesn't

Sounds a lot like the way some behaved toward President Obama, including rants which called President Obama every name one the book, including "POS, f* U", and other expletives that some thought was so great

[TheBlackAdder]

2. Not sure what the gameplan is. This seems like a McCain "Suspend my campaign" moment. nt

[cali]

3. It's not wasted. She wields a lot of influence.

[HereSince1628]

35. I'm not sure how much she carries with Snyder and his gang of privateers

This is one of the most serious public health crises rising from failed government in living memory. There's opportunity that ranges from looking presidential all the way down to looking like she cares about minority kids abused by a state controlled by privateering run amok.

All of which are valid, btw, considering it's the middle of a primary campaign

I suspect the good she can do with her influence mostly lays on two paths... one calling for action from a democratic administration and democrats in Congress. The other is shaming Snyder and his privateers

I'd bet we see both.

[elias49]

4. You got it right: politicking.

Like the Geico ads: it's what she does.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

30. Politicking is why these people were poisoned, politicking will be how it is fixed.

[ejbr]

5. Similar to the Clinton Foundation

It is a worthy and excellent cause with fringe benefits. Although this one I find more difficult to criticize as I think anyone running for office would do this to demonstrate their priorities.

[RKP5637]

44. Yep, I have no problem with this. It will bring more emphasis, of course a sideline

is a photo op, but it's always that way with things like this.

[HereSince1628]

47. I think your right, little downside here even

if she pushes a partisan angle against reckless application of free-market ideology.

[metroins]

6. It's better than nothing

I would rather have more people go than less.

No reason to chide Hillary going and giving more attention.

[leftofcool]

7. She was asked by the Mayor and she wants to follow up to make sure things get done.

Where is Bernie?

[TheBlackAdder]

8. We're talking about someone who promoted fracking worldwide, destroying OK, NY & PA watersheds.

.


She's all of a sudden worried about the people of Flint, MI when she was pushing fracking domestically and worldwide.


Her positions on KXL are another issue, as the next president will be able to reverse Obama's stay.


Fracking and Big Oil destroyed people and household in multitudes as of yet determined!


#hypocrisy


.

[leftofcool]

11. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[TheBlackAdder]

14. Well put. Just like John McCain suspending his campaign in 2008 when he was complicitory. nt

[2pooped2pop]

12. *this*

[virtualobserver]

65. this is a political stunt......but I think that it will be a comfort to the people of Flint

so I am happy that she is doing it.

[MineralMan]

9. Because the media will follow her there and

cover her protest against inaction. That's why.

She's not in office, but she has the stage right now. My question is why all candidates are not going to Flint.

[notadmblnd]

39. Her protest against inaction?

It was stated here clearly by her supporters that she had this crisis resolved within a few hours of the debate it was mentioned in? Which is it?

And setting the stage? how many Acts will this little play have? Will the good people of Flint just have to wait for a resolution to their plight until January next year?

Is that what you are saying? Because it sure sounds like it.

[bigwillq]

15. Photo Op

[treestar]

16. FFS this is getting ridiculous

It's a free country. Hillary can go where she wants to go.

[kath]

93. sure she can. She can pander and exploit a tragedy for votes anywhere she wants.

[treestar]

112. assuming that is what she is doing

says more about your perspective than about her. It's absurd to take the position she never does anything good. it's like you've bought the right wing spin on her.

[NCTraveler]

18. Clinton has no clout...

Is an argument that simply can't be made.

[amborin]

19. Huge media & appeal to NH

to target women and attest to how she really cares for the less fortunate

[SMC22307]

100. No-nonsense Yankees will see through Clinton's opportunism. (n/t)

[procon]

20. You say that like its a bad thing.

Politicians have always used moments of crisis to not only demonstrate their bonavides as concerned public servants, but to stand in solidarity with the victims. Whether it's visiting a town with poisoned water or one with high poverty and unemployment rates, when political leaders assert their not inconsiderable gravitas on behalf of the afflicted, the attendant media attention raises public awareness and the notoriety often forces the politicos who actually do have the power to affect appropriate solutions into action.

Certainly, in this case the blame is heaped on Republicans, so it should not come as a surprize that those unworthies would not make themselves available for a public flogging at the hands of a Democratic leader or face the angry constituents they have failed. As noted, because Clinton is not in office, she has no power or authority to compel state of federal agencies to attend to the people of Flint, but she can use the strength of her well known brand to attract the media which keeps the plight of the residents in the public eye.

The real complaint here is not a lament to the wretched suffering of the residents of Flint, but only a swipe at (all?) the politicians who have always visited disaster areas to commiserate with the downtrodden. Such events are worthwhile, not just because they serve to polish the public image of politicians , but the resulting additional media coverage focuses attention on areas of their concern and highlights their related political policies which may impact or interest many other citizens.

[blm]

37. The post is in line with Gov Snyder's latest whine to media, too. Interesting, eh?

.

[NCjack]

24. If action in Flynt continues at current rate, the 2016 president

will be installed before any corrective actions begin.

[onecaliberal]

25. Photos. Thas it. Why isn't the Clinton foundation already there doing something?

[Rose Siding]

46. Photos will draw more national attention. Or is that just ok when it's this guy?-

[onecaliberal]

61. Lol, is a 20 year old photo all you can dig up.

Children will be affected forever. A photo op isn't what they need. Resources that Clinton foundation had would be helpful.

[Rose Siding]

78. You're confused. That was a just a few months ago

He drew attention to the issue, had photos taken. Good on him.

Good on her for the same reasons. And at this point, you have no idea if the foundation will be involved. If they acted publicly on it now, some would bellow about that.

[Duckhunter935]

27. to politicize

The suffering of those people

[Empowerer]

41. And if she DIDN'T go, you'd be bitching about how she doesn't care about "those people"

So, just stop. You guys are looking ridiculous.

Or, better yet, keep it up. You guys are looking ridiculous.

[Duckhunter935]

51. no I would not

But it would be better if she would sink some of her 250K per speech in speaking fees or the Clinton foundations hundreds of millions into replacing pipes, faucets or even delivering big juggs of water to families.

[Empowerer]

53. The Clinton Foundation already "sinks hundreds of millions" into addressing poverty, AIDS,

education, disparities, etc. in the U.S. and around the world.

How much of YOUR money or time have YOU donated to helping the people in Flint?

[Duckhunter935]

58. have they done a thing for the Flint

Water issue?

Yep, the Clinton foundation does good work and the Clinton's have gotten very rich from it also.

[Empowerer]

62. Are you asking this of every foundation, or just the Clinton Foundation?

Because, you DO know, don't you, that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of causes in the world and no charity can possibly respond to every one of them. So I'm not sure why you think the Clinton Foundation is supposed to step in and address this one.

Back to my question - have YOU donated any money or time to this issue? If not, since you think it's so important, maybe you should stop arguing with anonymous people on DU for awhile and go do something for Flint.

[Duckhunter935]

72. I will answer your question when you do mine

One person that has links to a billion dollar foundation and has made hundreds of millions in speaking fees is the one publicizing this issue. She can do something today with those hundreds of millions of dollars. But she would just rather do a photo op.

[treestar]

114. Amen.

This is spinning a good thing as bad. How Rovian.

[Empowerer]

117. But, unlike Rove, they aren't very good at it

[Duckhunter935]

29. I thought she already fixed it?

[notadmblnd]

31. To pander to PoC

Call on Snyder to resign if you want to do something Clinton.

Then we'll see how much influence you have to get things done.

[Empowerer]

42. Because "POC" are gullible children who wouldn't recognize were being pandered to?

You guys have NO idea how you sound when you make these ridiculous posts and then swarm in to cosign.

You know we can read, right?

[notadmblnd]

55. You are the one saying POC are gullble. So, you tell me who is the bigot?

I said she was going to pander to POC, I didn't give an opinion as to whether or not I thought POC will buy it.

I did notice you ignored my larger point though. I guess it was more important to comment on your perceived slight than on the larger point I was making which was: If HRC has any real power to get something done, make Snyder resign immediately.

[virtualobserver]

84. strawman....what she believes when she attempts to pander vs. how people react...

two completely different things

[Number23]

118. Hillary's minority endorsements are something like 2000 to 1 to Sanders

She enjoys broad and DEEP minority support.

So of course her drawing attention on this issue is just her "pandering" to the people who already support her. Wonder what the excuse is for the presidential candidates who AREN'T going to Flint? That they are pandering to white people?

[LittleBlue]

45. This. Blatant pandering

It will probably work too.

[one_voice]

32. I dunno...

I would guess that sometimes being 'establishment' has it's advantages.

She knows a lot of people. She might be able to use her 'power' to get some shit done.

One would think that's a good thing not a shame.

[blm]

33. Funny that you're right in line with what Gov. Snyder and his protectors are now pushing in media.

Interesting.

[FlatBaroque]

36. Do you people ever get tired of that bullshit equation?

An observation is no less valid because someone else makes the same observation.

[blm]

40. Sorry you don't like it when a bullshit post doesn't past the bullshit smell test.

My senses are usually quite dependable. I'll continue to choose my battles, whether FlatB approves or not.

[asuhornets]

34. Hillary is going to Flint

because the mayor invited her.

[TheBlackAdder]

70. Hillary, just don't tell them you promoted radioactive fracking waste to millions worldwide. nt

[Duckhunter935]

74. don't you know, fracking

Is a good thing for her, not so much for the water or the earthquakes here in Oklahoma though.

[liberal_at_heart]

85. +1000000

[Empowerer]

38. Maybe she was invited?

[Mike Nelson]

49. She was asked...

...and her past statements have helped focus media attention. Could be the city officials favor her - maybe they did not invite others? Her political adversaries will say the visit is Hillary shamelessly using a tragedy to advance her own political goal. My advice is to keep that as a whisper response - Bernie should say something supporting Flint and refrain from knocking Hillary's visit...

[Duckhunter935]

52. actually Rachel Maddow

And MSNBC has brought that attention. Hillary showed up after the fact.

[Empowerer]

54. And Bernie was where?

Give it a rest with the Hillary hates people and Bernie loves us all already.

BOTH candidates are compassionate, committed public servants. Period.

So, please just go somewhere with that "my candidate's heart is bigger than your candidate's" crap.

[Duckhunter935]

57. doing just as much as she did

Talk about it

[Empowerer]

63. Did he beat Rachel Maddow there?

Or did he, too, "show up after the fact?" If it's the latter, why are you worried about Hillary's timing?

And why are you criticizing her for going there now, when Sanders hasn't gone. In fact, isn't he in NY getting ready for his SNL gig? THAT should really help the people of Flint . . .

[Duckhunter935]

68. did she beat Rachel Maddow in

Publicizing it? I think he can do more by helping the Democrats in the US Senate do something about it as that is his job.

[Empowerer]

71. What's he been doing in the Senate to help the Democrats address this problem?

And why, as a U.S. Senator, did Bernie have to wait until Rachel Maddow reported it on her television show. Shouldn't he have been more on top of this than the average person or reporter?

[Duckhunter935]

73. voting with the Democrats to force aid to Flint

In a Senate bill.

[Empowerer]

81. Nice try, but wrong. Sanders didn't lift a finger to help the Dems yesterday - He SKIPPED that vote

Democrats fought like hell to get that bill on the floor, but Sanders didn't come back to Washington to help them.

But he's in good company - Cruz and Rubio didn't show up to vote, either.

Apparently, they were all busy with something more important...

S. 2012 - An original bill to provide for the modernization of the energy policy of the United States, and for other purposes.
Question: On the Cloture Motion

ROLL CALL VOTE

Not Voting - 3
Cruz (R-TX)
Rubio (R-FL)
Sanders (I-VT)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=2&vote=00017

[Duckhunter935]

82. I stand corrected

So he has done just as much as she has, talk about it

[Empowerer]

90. And he didn't do what he was SUPPOSED to do - do his job as a Senator and show up to vote

[Duckhunter935]

101. was his the deciding vote?

[Mike Nelson]

56. Yes...

...I agree with that continuum.

[book_worm]

60. The mayor invited her and to highlight a real problem that she doesn't want to fade

away.

[intheozone]

64. Just as an FYI, the attitudes shown by Bernie

supporters in this whole discussion is what is completely turning me off on Bernie as a candidate. His supporters' attitudes and demeanor and getting closer and closer to those of Trump supporters all the time. I find it hard to believe his supporters are true democrats.

[Blue_Adept]

66. A lot of it has been feeling cultish for awhile.

[Empowerer]

67. I agree

I suspect that a lot of these people are operatives sent her by the Republicans.

[Duckhunter935]

69. lol

[oasis]

80. "operatives"? This is all the GOP gets for their money?

[jeff47]

79. That's ok, your account will go dormant again in a few months.

So odd that there's all these old DU accounts with very, very few posts for the time they've been here that are all suddenly posting a lot. And all pro-Clinton, anti-Sanders-supporters. Must be a massive coincidence.

Btw, how, specifically, does a photo op actually replace the water pipes?

[Duckhunter935]

83. yep, I agree

Amazing how they are only active during vacation time.

[intheozone]

109. You have no idea how much time on I spend on this site, just because I don't post

doesn't mean I am not here and keeping up with what is happening. Maybe it's just the new level of discourse that is moving me to enter posts. And, I know who is responsible for the new level of discourse and that it's not helpful to our party.

[jeff47]

110. If you were keeping up with what's happening, you'd see the trend too.

Lots of <1k posters who've been on the site for 8-14 years, and all of them are making anti-Sanders-supporters posts.

So, again, how does Clinton's photo op replace the water pipes?

[liberal_at_heart]

86. And Hillary supporters are saints? You are on an internet message board.

Every single website on the internet whether about politics or gardening has people that like to be mean and nasty. It is a form of entertainment for them. It says nothing about Bernie supporters as a whole.

[kath]

95. if you base your vote on a candidate's supporters,you really are not thinking on a very mature level

[SMC22307]

105. Believe it.

What I find hard to believe are those crocodile tears.

[Dem2]

111. I hate to jump here and do this

But I have to agree with you. Why are they making it so difficult for people who have less fervor in their arguments to be allowed to be part of the Bernie club?

It's so disappointing. I hope they rethink this strategy as Bernie is pretty much not an underdog any longer and leaders don't act this way.

[jillan]

94. It's not like she can accomplish anything. She's not the President, a member of the EPA nor is she

an environmental activist, like Erin Brockovich - who has been involved and exposing what is going on in Flint for over a year (she is also exposing all the other Flints that are occurring at this very moment).
And she isn't bringing more attention to what is happening there because it is already a huge story.

Other than a photo op, what is she hoping to accomplish? Serious question.

[Larkspur]

102. Obama did not go to Flint when he visited Detroit

Hillary going to Flint is politicking pure and simple.

[PoliticAverse]

103. Will all political candidates have to visit Flint now?

It used to be they had to visit the South Bronx:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/02/us/the-1992-campaign-voters-many-in-the-bronx-say-candidates-aren-t-in-touch.html

[ViseGrip]

116. Isn't there lead in the water in Ohio too? Aren't they worth more in electoral votes? hmmmm...