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Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:53 PM

 

Hillary when you get to Flint, take a good look around at the poster city for NAFTA

Yes, do go, and take a good look at what these shitty trade deals do to working Americans and their neighborhoods.

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Reply Hillary when you get to Flint, take a good look around at the poster city for NAFTA (Original post)
ViseGrip Feb 2016 OP
bigwillq Feb 2016 #1
JackInGreen Feb 2016 #2
Kall Feb 2016 #24
roguevalley Feb 2016 #72
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #74
Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #63
MADem Feb 2016 #3
Punkingal Feb 2016 #5
kath Feb 2016 #8
MADem Feb 2016 #10
Punkingal Feb 2016 #12
MADem Feb 2016 #21
Punkingal Feb 2016 #39
bunnies Feb 2016 #16
MADem Feb 2016 #17
bunnies Feb 2016 #22
MADem Feb 2016 #25
bunnies Feb 2016 #15
MADem Feb 2016 #18
Lordquinton Feb 2016 #31
MADem Feb 2016 #33
Lordquinton Feb 2016 #64
Armstead Feb 2016 #37
MADem Feb 2016 #41
zalinda Feb 2016 #58
Manifestor_of_Light Feb 2016 #77
Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #42
MADem Feb 2016 #45
Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #46
MADem Feb 2016 #48
hopemountain Feb 2016 #59
Lorien Feb 2016 #78
orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #4
kath Feb 2016 #6
ejbr Feb 2016 #13
kath Feb 2016 #14
jillan Feb 2016 #7
NorthCarolina Feb 2016 #9
pa28 Feb 2016 #11
ucrdem Feb 2016 #19
MADem Feb 2016 #23
bluestateguy Feb 2016 #28
Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #29
ucrdem Feb 2016 #30
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #32
ucrdem Feb 2016 #36
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #38
ucrdem Feb 2016 #40
the devil Feb 2016 #50
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #51
Lordquinton Feb 2016 #35
JackRiddler Feb 2016 #62
intheflow Feb 2016 #68
AzDar Feb 2016 #20
elmac Feb 2016 #26
scottie55 Feb 2016 #34
Skwmom Feb 2016 #27
warrprayer Feb 2016 #43
Hoyt Feb 2016 #44
MADem Feb 2016 #47
SunSeeker Feb 2016 #53
ViseGrip Feb 2016 #55
oasis Feb 2016 #49
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #52
MADem Feb 2016 #57
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #60
SunSeeker Feb 2016 #54
amborin Feb 2016 #71
6chars Feb 2016 #56
HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #61
Live and Learn Feb 2016 #65
bvar22 Feb 2016 #66
Oilwellian Feb 2016 #67
dana_b Feb 2016 #70
PotatoChip Feb 2016 #69
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #73
ViseGrip Feb 2016 #75
Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #76

Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:54 PM

1. kick (nt)

 

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:55 PM

2. I wonder if she'll field amy questions about that

NAFTA kind of laid the foundation for Flints economic destruction didn't it?

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:50 PM

24. It sure did

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Response to Kall (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:28 PM

72. imagine what the tpp will do. thanks obama. no, seriously

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:54 PM

74. Yooge plus one!

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Response to JackInGreen (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:06 AM

63. Michael Moore took a former auto worker from Flint to meet the guy you got his job in Mexico.

 

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:57 PM

3. Bernie, when you head back to Burlington, take a good look at the college your wife has

destroyed....

That's about how much sense your comment makes.

Since you like to toss the sins of the spouse on the candidates, and all....

Turn about IS fair play.

She wasn't POTUS, and Bernie wasn't President of that college.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:59 PM

5. She has first lady on her resume....also remember "two for the price of one."

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:59 PM

8. This.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:00 PM

10. Two for the price of one means each has a "portfolio."

Her portfolio was health care and human rights.

How soon people forget--or maybe they're too young to remember...?

Trying to conflate a candidate and spouse is a dangerous game. Do it, and don't be surprised if there's blowback.

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Response to MADem (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:05 PM

12. Tell her that...she brags about her accomplishments as first lady.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:40 PM

21. She had several portfolios, and she executed them superbly.

And thanks for proving my point, albeit unintentionally.


Let's break down your post:

Punkingal
12. Tell her that...she brags about *****>>>>>her accomplishments as first lady<<<<<*****.


Unless "first lady" is a new synonym for POTUS, you're off the mark.

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Response to MADem (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:20 PM

39. And you sound like a recording.

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Response to MADem (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:26 PM

16. No. It means If I buy A and get B free I saved half on each.

 

Theyre equal. Co-Presidents, remember?

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Response to bunnies (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:35 PM

17. No, they aren't. She wasn't on the ballot with Bill.

Articles of impeachment were not delivered to her.


It's more like "If you buy this POTUS, you get this talented, sophisticated, knowledgeable, and very intelligent Special Envoy and ad hoc advisor as a bonus."


It's not a bad thing to have a talented spouse.

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Response to MADem (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:41 PM

22. She might as well have been on the ballot.

 




We agree.: Its not a bad thing to have a talented spouse.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:53 PM

25. Wow--what a great pin! Wish I had one of those!

They should make one that says "Elect Bill's wife in 2016!"

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:21 PM

15. Two for the price of one.

 

The Clintons campaigned on that. You cant ignore that now because its come back to bite her.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:36 PM

18. Go back to post seventeen, and read that. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:07 PM

31. These grapes taste sour

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:09 PM

33. Yes....the OP should have brought a pie, instead. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:07 AM

64. What does it have to do with the OP?

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:18 PM

37. She said recently that she will turn to Bill for economic advice

 

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Response to Armstead (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:26 PM

41. Good. I hope she also turns to him for advice on other issues, too.

He's got in-depth knowledge on a lot of African and Caribbean basin issues. He's no schlump when it comes to a variety of regional concerns. He's smart. People like him. He makes people want to find points of agreement. He will be a very useful--and likely busy--FGOTUS.

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Response to MADem (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:31 AM

58. Are you serious?

Look what he and the foundation did in Haiti. They built a fucking luxury hotel. That's it.

And, as far as the economy goes he lucked out with the rise of the Internet and easy interest cards. And, I'm sorry I voted for him twice. I never want to see a Clinton in power again.

Z

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Response to zalinda (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:51 PM

77. I do not send money to the Clinton Foundation.

I send it to the Carter Center because I know it will be well spent. They are eliminating parasitic diseases which can be cured with a 50 cent dose of the same heartworm medicine you would give your dog. Horrible crippling diseases that are easily and cheaply cured, but ignored by the developed world because most of the victims are poor Africans. I earned a bachelor's degree in biology. I never took Parasitology but I know these disease are crippling and painful.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:33 PM

42. Comparing a university to a trade deal that has destroyed labor, environmental standards

 

and has enriched the 1%. That's a real reach. Is this all HRC supporters have left?

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #42)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:35 PM

45. No. Trying to conflate a candidate and their spouse is what the problem is, here.

But I gather that zipped right past you....NAFTA didn't destroy Flint. If you read this thread, you'd learn that.

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Response to MADem (Reply #45)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:41 PM

46. Personal attack on my intelligence. HRC would be proud. you're on ignore.

 

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:44 PM

48. Well, that's not true, either.

But you haven't hurt my feelings with your false accusation OR your "ignore" proclamation.

Hope you follow through on the latter!

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Response to MADem (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:34 AM

59. where are your links?

people are supposed to believe your say so on this thread?

yes, nafta took the jobs out of detroit and flint was a suburban community benefiting from those jobs. more than half the population of flint had to leave because they no longer had jobs after nafta.

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Response to Feeling the Bern (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:50 PM

78. Yes, it is.

Remember: if Bernie gave a speech to Goldmann Sachs, releases the transcripts and gives the fee to charity, it is EXACTLY THE SAME OR WORSE than Hillary taking $675k to give to her own "foundation" and keeping the transcripts hidden. It's Clinton exceptionalism.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:58 PM

4. + 1000000000000 !!!!!!!!!!!

 

Connect the dots NAFTA, Iraq the Bail=out no mention there when she rifles all those " Actions not words " .

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:59 PM

6. Absolutely true.

And she supports another awful "free trade" bill. Fuck that shit.

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Response to kath (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:08 PM

13. No she doesn't

well, not until AFTER the election.

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Response to ejbr (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:13 PM

14. Oh, okay. I thought it depended on what day of the week it is.

Or the phase of the moon. or something.

(There is a great cartoon out there about Tuesday Hillary vs Wednesday Hillary)

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:59 PM

7. Yes! Flint was hit hard by Nafta.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 09:59 PM

9. Shows what great government you get when you start negotiations

 

from a Centrist Position. You ONLY get solutions to the right of that. Every time. By design.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:02 PM

11. Third way Democrats are willing to put a band-aid over the wreckage.

For some reason they're willing to repeat the same policy mistakes like NAFTA that ruined so many communities in the first place.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:38 PM

19. The Datsun Bluebird aka 510 hit US showrooms in 1967, 27 years before NAFTA was signed.



NAFTA did not destroy Flint MI.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:49 PM

23. LEMON LAWS were all the rage for a reason...and the lemons, sadly, were coming out of Detroit.

In the seventies, the American auto industry was producing a lot of clunkers that were screwed up pieces of crap--that's why a federal lemon law was passed, and states started passing lemon laws as well because there were just too many issues with vehicles that were pretty reprehensible.

There were problems in the auto industry for a period of time, and a lot of those problems had to do with very poor quality control. The Japanese did a better job of it.


I had a relative who bought a brand new Ford, and the fucking WHEEL came off a week after the purchase. And the dealer got all defensive about it! Started WHINING! It took a legal threat to get them to take responsibility.

My relative, who ALWAYS "bought American," went to European cars and, to this day, has never looked back. Well BEFORE NAFTA, too, might I note.


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Response to ucrdem (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:56 PM

28. GM had two rounds of major layoffs in 1986 and 1991

before NAFTA, before Clinton.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:57 PM

29. NAFTA/CAFTA did not destroy Flint, they buried Flint... at least according to Michael Moore.

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Response to Kip Humphrey (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:04 PM

30. Moore is not the sharpest tool in the shed .

The US auto industry mostly lost market share to Japan and Korea and NAFTA is a trade agreement with Canada and Mexico.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:09 PM

32. Flint plant was mostly shifted to Mexico.

 

GM shifted a lot of manufacturing to Mexico and Canada.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #32)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:15 PM

36. And back, before NAFTA. June 21, 1993: "GM To Move Auto Jobs From Mexico To Michigan"

Monday, June 21, 1993 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
Seattle Times Business Digest

GM To Move Auto Jobs From Mexico To Michigan

General Motors plans to move production of Chevrolet Cavalier and Pontiac Sunbird from Mexico to the United States next year.

That will create about 1,000 jobs at GM's Lansing, Mich., manufacturing complex.

An announcement from GM is expected today.

The small, front-wheel drive Cavalier is GM's best-selling car.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930621&slug=1707571


I think you just suffered a meme malfunction.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #36)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:19 PM

38. Moved to Lansing, not Flint.

 

Looks like you had a geography malfunction. Watch M Moores Roger and Me for the story of Flint.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:23 PM

40. The point is they'd already shifted there and back before NAFTA. Sorry about that meme. nt

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:08 AM

50. and back from Canada after "Roger and Me"

The GM van plant in Scarborough Ontario was recognized by the company as the plant that produced the highest quality products. It was the largest employer in Scarborough.

The company shut the plant down and sold the land to the new largest employer in Scarborough...Walmart.

And the van building jobs...well, they went back to Flint.

NAFTA goes both ways.

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Response to the devil (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:12 AM

51. GM employment went from 80,000 to 8,000.

 

They were given pink slips. No retraining, no offers to relocate. GM just abandoned the laid off workers.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:13 PM

35. And Moore is back under the bus!

It was great when he praised Clinton for bringing up flint, but now that he criticized her he gets put back.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #30)


Response to ucrdem (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:39 PM

68. And yet, Moore is from Flint.

And has been fighting for and writing about Flint for decades. But I'm sure you have a better idea what went down there from your google searches.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:39 PM

20. K & R

 

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:53 PM

26. Yes & she needs to take a good look at all of MI

 

jobs are still being flushed south all over the state.

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Response to elmac (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:10 PM

34. Jobs Are Going To The Race To The Bottom States

 

Pay no taxes. No other taxes. Move your factory here and get free beer! Free hookers! Free cocaine!

Maybe we should give some company a trillion dollars cash to move their factory to backwater USA! All paid for by raising fees on the poor!

Race to the bottom.

Detroit / Flint won-lost.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 10:54 PM

27. I thought the same thing earlier today. nt

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:34 PM

43. Kick and rec n/t

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:35 PM

44. Detroit was doomed the minute people realized foreign cars were better, cheaper, higher mileage, etc

That was long before NAFTA and before cars were made in Mexico.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #44)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:41 PM

47. This is the bottom line.

All that EDWARD DEMING approach on the Japanese production lines--we were light years behind on quality control. They had us beat by miles. Their cars worked, they were reliable, shit didn't fall off them...we just failed to innovate, and it cost us.

And by "us" I mean those overfed guys running US car companies (into the ground). They were the ones who feel asleep at the wheel, and they were the ones who screwed the American worker. NAFTA had nothing to do with it.

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Response to MADem (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:21 AM

53. Exactly. I bet most of the people complaining about NAFTA drive foreign cars. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:25 AM

55. Sure, just like homeowners who build near the water complain about flood rates.

 

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sat Feb 6, 2016, 11:46 PM

49. Hill had noting to do with NAFTA, and everything to do with Flint's

rescue. Nobody in that town would buy what you're selling.

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Response to oasis (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:17 AM

52. She takes credit for Bills presidency.

 

2 for the price of 1, remember? And she strongly advocated and spoke out in favor of NAFTA. If she's gonna run on Bills record, she's gotta answer for NAFTA. Maybe she'll give a speech in Flint about how wonderful NAFTA has been?

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:30 AM

57. She takes credit--as she SHOULD--for HER achievements as First Lady of the United States.

Say, are you saying you want us to "credit" Bernie with his wife Jane's "accomplishments" while serving as President of that college in VT?

You really think that's appropriate?

After all, she served as his CHIEF OF STAFF and as his political advisor--she boasts about it.

So...think it's fair if we conflate them, too?

Hmmm?

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Response to MADem (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:47 AM

60. Janes not running for president.

 

If she was, she's unqualified.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:22 AM

54. Racism poisoned Flint, not NAFTA. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:01 PM

71. NAFTA decimated Flint's GM auto workers nt

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:29 AM

56. A Timeline Of Hillary Clinton's Evolution On Trade

This is a long read, but NPR pulled together this extensive list of her positions and statements since the 1990s. It is not a simple matter of for vs. against.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/21/401123124/a-timeline-of-hillary-clintons-evolution-on-trade

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Response to 6chars (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:52 AM

61. Really should go back further.

 

On WalMarts BoD at the time they were outsourcing manufacturing to Asian sweatshops abusing pre-teen girls. Union-busting. Could be a good resume for a corporate attorney. Not so good a record trying to sell free trade agreements to American workers.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:15 AM

65. Yes Hill, 'Look Into It' and tell us what you 'Can't Do'. nt

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:38 AM

66. Laughing my ASS off.

This thread actually has people arguing that NAFTA was a GOOD thing for American Workers.
How completely absurd and blind is that????

Look the fuck around.
Ross was Right, but Bill was smooth.

In the 2008 debates, BOTH Hillary and Obama admitted that NAFTA was a mistake, and has been bad for American Workers. Do you people trying to sell NAFTA in this thread disagree with both Obama and Hillary?

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:34 PM

67. bvar, when you also see Kissinger touted by the same people...

well, something just ain't right. One thing is certain though, it has a very strong right wing stench about it.

Excellent OP. Hillary should definitely take a good look at the devastation that neocon and neoliberal trade policies have created.

It's in your face time.

K&R

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #66)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:53 PM

70. and they wonder why people are laving the Democratic party. n/t

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:45 PM

69. Another of America's neoliberal economic sacrifice zones.

And if nothing changes, it'll be coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:52 PM

73. This is the truth. The conditions in Flint are a result of the trade deals.

I can remember when I had never heard of a Korean car. Now Korean cars are everywhere and the jobs are GONE.

The trade deals did NOTHING for working class Americans. When they told us how wonderful NAFTA would be they were lying to us.

What kind of a sociopath would take all the employment away from America's working class? In my opinion these trade deals were an act of treason. Same for the TPP and TTIP.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #73)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:20 PM

75. One of Michael Moore's first movies....on Flint MI - I hope he's gettting well he's in the hospital.

 

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Response to ViseGrip (Original post)

Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:46 PM

76. Point ViseGrip !

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