Sanders is attempting a nothing less than a hostile takeover of Democratic Party

[kennetha]

Last edited Sun Apr 3, 2016, 09:02 AM - Edit history (1)

The Socialist Democrats. USA would be Sanders natural home, but they don't run presidential candidates anymore.

So Sanders, despite hating on the democrats for years, as just one of the two parties of the ruling class

(see: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/sanderss-party-problem/460293/)

decides to run for president as a democrat.

Why?

Well, it's clear, the Democratic Party has a lot of intact national political infrastructure. If you could seize that infrastructure, and turn it into a militantly leftist party, you'd have your socialist party.

It's a long shot, to be sure, but that's clearly what Sanders is up to. He's trying take the Democratic Party and remake it in his own socialist image. Pretty daring move. He's gotten farther than you might have thought he would at first. But it's pretty clear that the powers that be within the democratic party don't want to see the party become an outright socialist party. Otherwise, they would have become that long ago. I bet they believe such a party is not likely to be a majority party anytime soon.

[HerbChestnut]

1. Militantly leftist, huh?

You been listening to Rush Limbaugh lately?

[HooptieWagon]

8. It's pretty hard to tell the difference between the Hillarians and ditto heads.

[LWolf]

48. That it is. nt

[Hortensis]

116. Thanks, KennethA. The Atlantic article is an important

one. Most discussion so far has been about the rise of intolerant and repressive left-wing behavior on campus, and journalists have been apparently too busy chatting about flashbacks to the '60s to report this aspect as they should. Sure, it's normal for radical movements to fizzle out, and they probably expected that of the "campus bro" behavior, but Bernie's success from running under the Democratic Party label has made him a national figure.

I'm not worried that Bernie could take over the party, of course, but he could conceivably derail it at a critical time in our nation's history. By selling himself to the unaware as a Democrat, Bernie has avoided not only obscurity but, at least temporarily, the failure that fringe groups typically bring on by rejecting working with others and the "intolerable" compromises to their ideology that would require.

How many Democrats and independents, after all, would be as likely to vote for a member of the Democratic Socialist Party as they would a Democrat?

[LWolf]

132. ?

Really?

I know you accidentally replied to me, but I still am having a very difficult time trying to follow your thought processes.

The party was corrupted when Al From and the DLC launched the "bloodless coup" in the early 90s. THAT was a hostile takeover.

That Democrats on the ground are working to take it back is a good and healthy thing for the party.

Sanders is running as a Democrat. People are coming back to the party, and coming to the party for the first time, to support him. That's a good and healthy thing for the party.

Sanders is bringing a vibrant, youthful, energetic resurgence that the party needs after a couple of decades of stagnant doldrums.

[Go Vols]

159. +1

[wilsonbooks]

190. Bingo.

Bernie is a very real threat to party hacks.

[Voice for Peace]

137. It's a marvel what gets projected onto an honest man.

Truly.
He would have run as an independent. You may be sure, as he was, that this would severely handicap the democratic nominee in the general, likely leading to election of a Republican president. He chose not to do that.

People are compelled to assign all manner of deviant motives to explain him. What's being profoundly overlooked is the power of decency.

The importance and appeal of honesty.
How rare and beautiful it is in these times!

[Armstead]

141. Dirty Commies. I hate 'em. I hate those damn hippies too.

[Bill USA]

99. you sound like a BS promoter.....lol! did you notice the magazine the article is from The Atlantic

[cali]

101. Sadly true of a number of her supporters

[kennetha]

10. 'militantly' isn't a bad word in this context.

= uncompromising, rejecting centrist, accommodationist tendencies, willing to confront rather than compromise.

It's meant as purely descriptive.

[HerbChestnut]

14. Oh, I'm sure that's just the image the author was trying to conjure. n/t

[daleanime]

18. And hostile is meant...

in the friendliest way?

[jeff47]

2. First, congratulations for waking up from that 50-year-long coma.

Second, you might find that things have changed a wee bit. Turns out not a whole lot of people actually respond to red baiting anymore.

[kennetha]

3. you confuse red-baiting

for dispassionate, neutral analysis

[jeff47]

7. Analysis....from 1963. (nt)

[kennetha]

17. don't see why you'd say that.

I bet Sanders would agree. He is trying to remake the Democratic Party from a corporatist center-left party in to a genuinely democratic socialist party a la European Socialist Parties.

And it's a hostile take-over, because he expects resistance from the party establishment.

[retrowire]

32. No it's not very hostile.

See, the political revolution is one that only requests that we get out and vote.

That's regular ole democracy. Not hostile.

[bvf]

142. Thanks for that.

Seems some people still can't get their heads around this whole democracy thing

[jeff47]

34. Show me on the doll where the big evil socialists took your money (nt)

[Kalidurga]

172. this needs millions of recommends

Because that is what the argument boils down to. Millions of people are suffering, some dying, some being outright killed by our military just to prop up a failing system. And it's expensive too. For every dollar a person that earns less than 50,000 a year spends in taxes they lose 5x that by not having things available like free healthcare and college.

[Odin2005]

179. LOL!

[Fawke Em]

35. Actually, he's trying to return the Democratic Party back to FDR and Truman era economics, but

without the bigotry.

He wants to the United States to care about and protect its Middle Class and extend those opportunities to women and people of color who were left out because of national bigotry back in the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s.

[Mbrow]

79. Absolutely, Plus the little talked about (Sarcasm thingie)

fact that the Democratic party has move so far to the right and had left most of us behind. Thanks Fawke Em

[earthside]

138. You are correct: more like a shareholders' revolt ...

... against a rogue board of directors.

For too long now the establishment 'leaders' of the Democratic Party (the board of directors) have been moving further to the right and have become so risk averse that the party is almost unrecognizable from the organization of FDR, Truman, Kennedy and Johnson.

Meanwhile, the everyday Democrats (the small shareholders) have been ignored and literally treated with contempt, as if they biggest obstacle to success.

Sen. Sanders has taken on the role of championing the regular Democrats, the ones who don't like war; who don't like big money in politics; who don't like bad trade deals ... who want better, affordable health care; who need a way to see their children afford college; who want to see someone more like them running the show.

Hostile take over ... ridiculous.
The Sanders movement is about re-empowering working and middle class Democrats and ousting the tired, old, rich, risk averse insiders.

[cali]

109. And YOU confuse a Clinton hack with someone

dispensing dispassionate analysis.

Paul Starr was in the Clinton administration and reportedly close to dear hilly.

[bowens43]

4. Exactly what we need. The party is a farce. Time to tear down and rebuild.

All of the Establishment Dems need to be out on there worthless asses.

[kennetha]

21. Lots on the left agree

I think this is a major fight over what sort of party the democratic party will be henceforth.

[1StrongBlackMan]

28. I agree ...

and, it's a lot like what the Paul Revolution tried to do with the republican party.

[tecelote]

25. Exactly.

The party is where Republicans would be if they hadn't gone batshit crazy.

Endless war, rich get richer, etc.

Bernie is the true Democrat.

[elehhhhna]

31. its a takeback, not a takeover. and its hardly hostile

Op should fe k off with this desperate bullshit

[artislife]

130. ^^^Truth! nt

[pangaia]

5. What is this, 1950?

[hedda_foil]

131. Look! Over there! It's a brand new 1956 Chevy Bel-air convertible!

[pangaia]

152. OMG ! How did you know?

HOW???

My dream car #2.. although red and white :&gt )))

#1 is a 1965 Mustang

The red with white interior.....

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT.FrKLlWJykADZRXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10LTU2MS1zBGdwcmlkA1E3blZ0OHZLUTlPR1Y1S2ZZRWdmVEEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzEwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwM1BHBxc3RyAzE5NjUgbXVzdGFuZyAEcHFzdHJsAzEzBHFzdHJsAzIxBHF1ZXJ5AzE5NjUgbXVzdGFuZyBwaWN0dXJlcwR0X3N0bXADMTQ1NDk3NTEwNw--?p=1965+mustang+pictures&fr2=sa-gp-search&fr=yfp-t-561-s

[hedda_foil]

202. SOme of my neighbors has a 56 mustang convertible ... light blue and white and perfect.

[pangaia]

204. I'm seriously jealous.

I used to have a Sunbeam TIGER.. GGRRRRRRRRRRRRR..
ford 289 V-8.. VroooooM !!!

[hedda_foil]

214. Ooh... I remember the Sunbeam. One of the cutest cars ever.

[pangaia]

215. CUTE !!!!!!!!!! Wadda ya mean...... CUTE?

Actually, come to think of it...it was.

Until you stepped on the gas.

[hedda_foil]

216. Very cute, very zippy. Here's a '66 Tiger.

?rev=2

[pangaia]

217. Nice. Mine was "british' green..

[Kalidurga]

176. Oh that is an awesome car, my favorite.

and I like the 1956 Desoto Firedome and 1957 Jaguars. I think I am going to have to look up car shows now.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. IT'S A COUP!

Or a convertible!

Or... something.

[HooptieWagon]

13. A chicken coup!

Or maybe chicken soup! Mmmm, chicken!

[Warren DeMontague]

47. NO COUP FOR YOU!

[HooptieWagon]

50. Channelling the Coup Nazi:

No coup for you!

[Odin2005]

182. Hillary knows all about coups!

Ask folks in Central America!

[Warren DeMontague]

205. Only misogynistic bernierbos oppose corporate-friendly chicanery in poor third world countries.

Please stop with the microgressivostic berniebrotastic misogynogony.

[cherokeeprogressive]

65. Someone's gonna cry fowl if'n you keep it up.

[Art_from_Ark]

120. Or cry for a fowl

in a Super Coop!

[JudyM]

169. Birds of a feather. Nt

[warrprayer]

55. It's a COUPE!!!

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Uh huh. Now you're just Red Baitin'. Didn't think I'd notice the color?

[warrprayer]

87. A Mercury Meteor

A big red one to symbolize the coupe!

[Odin2005]

184. I want that car so bad, and I don't even drive!

[warrprayer]

206. I saw one last week

It was beautiful, cars were once art. Now they're appliances.

[AtomicKitten]

9. Nah, just taking it back from the Third Way takeover in the 1990s.

[Databuser]

11. Not so much a 'hostile takeover'....

I see it more as freeing the hostages in a bank robbery gone bad....

[kennetha]

20. trying to describe it in value neutral terms

I just mean hostile in the sense of a hostile corporate take-over.

[artislife]

133. Fantastic description.

[kath]

12. Derp derp derpa derp

[TheBlackAdder]

27. Muffins!

Last edited Mon Feb 8, 2016, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)

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.

[hifiguy]

90. Aww. Derpy's always so sweet and adorable.

Rec for you!

[kcdoug1]

15. AWESOME!!

the sooner we delouse the Corporate whores from OUR party the better...

[farleftlib]

129. Speak it!

Buh Bye, corporatists. Don't let the door hit ya in the rear on the way out....

[kath]

191. or, my fave version of that expression - "don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya"

[thereismore]

16. Nah, it's more like a friendly takeover. nt

[kennetha]

19. hostile,

because he is trying to seize control of the party apparatus from those who currently hold it, who will not surrender it willingly.

[retrowire]

37. nope...

The rules are being followed. He only wants us to get out and vote, that's what the political revolution is.

I'm not being very hostile when I vote am I?

[closeupready]

22. lol, another day, another hysterical, raving mad thread from you!

Thanks!

[kennetha]

26. Do you know how to actually argue?

[retrowire]

39. ITP, the OP admits they are seeking an argument.

Intelligent discourse, not so much.

[kennetha]

46. Ay-ya-yah

I mean an argument in the logical sense, where you marshall evidence in support of a conclusion, and use the force of logic together with the evidence to support the conclusion.

[TTUBatfan2008]

23. Rather see peaceful revolution...

...than the 99% get so fed up with corporate ownership of the two parties that it causes a physical revolution.

[Wilms]

24. It's a rescue mission, Ken.

You Third Waywards need your own party.

[RiverLover]

66. ^^^ THIS.

[Gregorian]

29. Sanders political values are those of mainstreet America in the early 1900's.

That's the reality the conservatives would like us to forget. It's better for people, though. So we better scrutinize the reasons why we held those democratic values.

[longship]

30. ROFL

This post cracks me up.

[grntuscarora]

33. This OP is bs.

Bernie has been critical of the Dem Party for years, as its leaders have pulled the party to the right at the expense of the rank and file members.
But calling it a hostile takeover???
It might be wiser, and more accurate, to view this "revolution" as the Dem rank and file reclaiming the party that used to be theirs.

[kennetha]

41. Where are you disagreeing with me?

You don't like the word 'hostile?' for some reason? Why?

[grntuscarora]

51. Wresting control from an elite group that stole the Party

does not qualify as "hostile" in my book.

I call it justice.

[840high]

211. You bet it's justice. Long overdue.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. Good.

It's long past time it was seized back from the warhawk corporatists.

[yodermon]

38. Occupy the Democratic Party. Yeah, pretty much.

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/

[Avalux]

40. What the fuck? This is a stretch too far. Way too far. n/t

[Vinca]

42. If anything, Bernie is dragging the Democratic party back to its roots.

After decades of creeping to the right, it's long overdue.

[kennetha]

49. Sanders never supported the democratic party

He rejected the party since he first got into politics as the tool of the ruling elite. That's why he's a socialist. It's not like he thinks the democratic party of his lifetime (and that's a long time) was ever the true instrument of the people. So I don't get this.

[Vinca]

78. I guess you would have preferred a third party run which would have guaranteed a Democratic loss.

That's the only reason Bernie is running as a Democrat. He wanted to sure not to gift the GOP with the White House.

[artislife]

135. This is the problem of not thinking long term

Bernie showed respect by asking to run in the Democratic Primary and has promised not to run third party.


They seem to understand that there was a Nader candidacy as well as a Perot candidacy that really can screw up or make better a run to the presidency. When the third party is running against the other guys, it is good for you. When the third party is running against you, very bad.

So OP writer...can't be bothered to look at which one of you actually posted this, think a little long term and ask yourself if it was better that Bernie decided to run with the Democratic Party or not.

[guillaumeb]

43. You have it backwards.

The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was a non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation[1] founded in 1985 that, upon its formation, argued the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The DLC hailed President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of Third Way politicians and as a DLC success story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

It was the DLC that turned the Democratic Party into a pale imitation of the GOP. Current corporate Democrats have weakened the party by rarely offering a real alternative to the GOP.

[kennetha]

54. Before Bill Clinton

Sanders endorsed Jesse Jackson for President and urged Jackson to run outside the democratic party, because the democratic party was not the appropriate place to pursue progressive politics. So Sanders doesn't share your belief that it was only with Clinton that the democrats turned into corporate whores.

[guillaumeb]

70. Jackson also ran as a Democrat because the Democratic Party is the more progressive

of the two parties. In my opinion, what turns politicians into constant campaigners who are constantly looking for money is the fact that House members run every two years. And newspapers are not the source for news anymore. It is television, and television ads are expensive.

Ronald Reagan eliminated the Fairness Doctrine. If the broadcast media were required to run free public service campaign ads as a requirement for licensing, and if paid ads were prohibited, it would go a long way toward equalizing races.

[HooptieWagon]

61. This^

We're taking our fucking party back. We can do it by the ballot, or with pitchforks and torches. If the Third Way DNC wants another 68 Chicago, we'll happily oblige.

[bravenak]

45. I know. Poor Guy.

[Broward]

52. Corporatists hijacked the Party.

If Bernie succeeds, he would only be putting the Party back in the hands of New Deal Dems.

[kennetha]

56. Maybe

But Sanders rejected the pre-Clinton democratic party too. He's been at this a long time.

[TTUBatfan2008]

112. Which is exactly why people love him

He has recognized the corruption in our system for a long time and wants to make valid changes to benefit average Americans.

The average voter of every political belief is not likely to think corporate ownership of the two major parties is a good thing.

[Mnpaul]

199. The Reagan enablers need to go as well

These people have been corrupting our party for a long time.

[djean111]

53. Since the Democratic Party has been taken over by the Third Way DINOs - good!

Because if Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and her ilk - the New Democrat Coalition - are what it means to be a Democrat, then I am out. So, hopefully, Bernie can effect some change.

[kennetha]

58. Long before the Third Way

Sanders rejected the Democratic Party as just one of the two parties of the ruling class.

[djean111]

76. Very prescient of him.

In any event - the DNC of today, the DNC that affects all of our lives, the DNC that has been taken over by the Third Way - THAT is what has to change, I don't really care what happened before. I care about NOW.

And yes, the Democratic Party has been morphing into just one of the two parties of the ruling class. IMO and all that. I see the high-handedness down here in Florida. I see Pelosi simper and tell us we must cur Social Security to "save" it. I saw "hope and change" become "eat your peas".

I am with Bernie. I would have been with Liz Warren if she had run instead of Bernie. Bottom line.

[Android3.14]

57. You are damn right he is.

A hostile takeover is a type of corporate acquisition or merger which is carried out against the wishes of the board (and usually management) of the target company.

But the truth is that most of the people in the company want that takeover to happen.

Do you have a problem with that?

[kennetha]

63. This is just about

understanding the dynamics of the current race and wondering why Sanders is running as a Democrat in the first place, when he never has, and mostly has rejected the democratic party. It's also about understanding the party infrastructure's reaction to him.

[libdem4life]

91. That's a naive or ingenuous wondering...they liked it when he voted with them, and caucused with

them, and helped with their agenda. So now, he's chopped liver?

No kidding its about the "infrastructure". You mean he wants to pull us to the LEFT???? OMG OMG Can we get Hillary front and center from the GOP-leaners?

[LWolf]

59. I thought the DLC's "bloodless coup" was a hostile takeover.

We're just taking the party back.

[cascadiance]

69. Yep, the minority the DLC represented in its HOSTILE takeover of OUR party...

... DESERVES us to return a hostile takeover against them who started that war decades ago!

The Stalin funded Koch Brothers who helped put the DLC in charge DESERVE to have their butts kicked out of politics in a most hostile manner!

[kennetha]

73. Not arguing who is right and who is wrong

[cascadiance]

74. But the target isn't "the Democratic Party", but the hostile leadership in charge of it now...

... that most grass roots Democrats feel alienated from now given its greater allegiance to the 1% money folk than to us as the party constituents.

[kennetha]

82. That is certainly Sanders bet

We'll see if it is a good bet.

Looking pretty good so far, admittedly, but can't judge from just Iowa and NH, those two not being all that representative of the great mass of rank and file democrats.

[cascadiance]

89. Students in Iowa City, where about half of them are from out of state, where overwhelmingly Sanders

... supporters. So in my book, that is a predictor in to the future of how things will go down in places like Illinois where a lot of those students come from (about a third of University of Iowa's undergraduate students there are from around the greater Chicago area alone). And I know that's been that way for decades, as I used to go to school there myself as an out of state student from Michigan then.

[stillwaiting]

60. The DLC and the Clintons took over the Party several decades ago.

Gave it a new mission. They openly stated their mission many times so it's not a conspiracy theory.

Bernie is trying to do the same thing, but in reverse. Taking it back to the Party of FDR.

It would seem there are quite a number of us that want this to happen. Hopefully a majority.

[INdemo]

62. Perhaps they would be more intertested in your BS over on the Freepers side

and by the way were you a Bush supporter in 2000?
You need to to do some research on FDR,and Teddy Roosevelt,JFK,Hubert Humphrey and MLK.

While you are at it...Check out Ronald Reagan and the William J Clinton and compare their actions and what they did for the rich bastards on Wall St,Big Banks,Insurance Companies and how Clinton destroyed the middle class manufacturing jobs in the US then get back with us OK?

Your really need to research "Democratic Socialist" but if you research the names I've given you have may have figured that out

[kennetha]

68. You're being incoherent

[INdemo]

119. You havent had time to do the research I asked you to

..you need to do that then we'll talk

[kennetha]

121. Nah, no interest in talking to you.

Big waste of time.

[INdemo]

136. That is the way you Hillary supporters are..When you are challenged

you back off or if you are challenged about Hillary's falsehoods you back away from the conversation as well.
....But did you support Bush inn 2000? I'm guessing yes

Read this:
I'm betting you wont

http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

[kennetha]

140. I went all the way from California to Washington DC

to protest Bush's stealing of the 2000 election.

Selected not Elected! Don't impugn my integrity. You have no idea. Jeepers.

[INdemo]

207. But your OP appered as something written by a Freeper though

and obviously I'm not the only one here that thought that,,
Please read the link

[kennetha]

208. That's cause you think anything not part of your Sanders echo chamber

isn't worth listening to.

[INdemo]

213. Whatever

[Aerows]

218. I understood INdem's post just fine.

While you are at it...Check out Ronald Reagan and the William J Clinton and compare their actions and what they did for the rich bastards on Wall St,Big Banks,Insurance Companies and how Clinton destroyed the middle class manufacturing jobs in the US then get back with us OK?

What's more, I agree with it. NAFTA - Lost us millions of manufacturing jobs, which was predicted by many economists. And that came to pass. Repealing Glass Steagle - opened up the way for too big to fail and the crashes that came along with it.

Those are facts.

Furthermore, Clinton signed on to harsher penalties which put several hundred thousand people in jail for longer periods of time. This paved the way for private prisons. Hillary receives generous donations from the private prison industry.

[leveymg]

64. Kennetha, did you get lost in your migration between Red State and Freep? You poor, lost birdie.

[demmiblue]

83. Or hillarysupporters.com and jackassradicals.com.

Birds of feather shit together.

[leveymg]

111. Somehow, the screaming eagle on Colbert's old show comes to mind. More Farce than fierce. ;-)

[yourout]

67. Actually he is taking it back from the Turd Way crowd that.....

has done more than just a little damage.

[Matariki]

72. Oh boo! We are the party of FDR and don't you forget it

One could easily argue that Third Way 'Democrats' already carried out a hostile takeover of the party of FDR.

We want it back.

[kennetha]

75. you could, but that would be a stretch

What is true is that the "third way" Democrats accepted certain constraints on policy -- the constraints came from the Republicans -- but they thought they could advance progressive goals within those constraints.

FDR faced nothing similar -- there were these two big things -- the Depression and a World War -- that gave him a much freer hand.

[Matariki]

80. You don't know your history, clearly.

FDR faced enormous obstacles. But he was a fighter.

[kennetha]

85. You don't think the depression and the War

gave FDR enormous political opportunities?

[Matariki]

110. What does this have to do with the premise of your OP

which seems to imply that the Democratic party isn't by nature progressive?

The country has been pulled to the right for years and the DLC did their part. And by 'the right' I don't mean socially but corporate rule, which is destroying the environment, the middle class, and just about anything good and fair that you can name.

[kennetha]

115. The democratic party has no fixed nature.

It's "nature" is highly shiftable. Roosevelt was no socialist, by the way, he actually thought of himself as saving capitalism by inventing the mixed economy. Great invention that.

[Matariki]

118. If "the democratic party has no fixed nature" how can your OP be remotely tenable?

[kennetha]

124. Cause Bernie is an outsider

Trying to seize the party from outside and take in a direction of his choosing.

What's so hard to see about that? He's practically said as much himself. Don't know why the Bernie supporters are even upset.

[Matariki]

188. LOL

I've been a democrat since my first vote, 40 years ago. And like me, most of Sanders' supporters ARE long-time Democrats whose values match his. And many of us are disgusted with the way Third Way 'Democrats' and the DLC has commandeered the party.

It's Democrats who are supporting him, it's Democrats who are working to reform the party.

So like I said, the premise of your OP is untenable.

[hifiguy]

77. There aren't enough LOLs

to respond to this absurdity.

[warrprayer]

81. You betcha!

[Blue_In_AK]

84. Oh, please, give me a break.

Sanders is more of a Democrat than most of the Democrats in office today. If anything, our old Democratic Party has been the victim of a coup.

[kennetha]

92. Sanders doesn't even call himself a democrat.

He's a self-declared democratic socialist.

The Democratic Party of the US is not a European style Democratic Socialist Party.

Elements of it tend in that direction, always have. But you know why the Democratic Party was for long dominant in the South don't you? And the Democratic Party of Kennedy and Johnson -- they were socially progressive for their times, but they were also inveterate Cold Warriors.

Complicated thing the democratic party, with a long and varied history.

[cascadiance]

96. It was more then when FDR spoke publicly AGAINST the economic royalists heavily...

... which so many in the corporate beholden DLC infested party that calls itself "Democratic" now wouldn't dare doing today to avoid being pushed aside by the corporatist CRAP that governs the party's agenda on so many non-social issues it pushes today at the behest of the 1% that pays them to do so.

[Blue_In_AK]

114. I've been alive for a long time,

and the "Democratic Party" of today has forgotten its ideals. You obviously disagree, but whatever.

[Odin2005]

189. I consider myself a Democratic Socialist and a quasi-Marxist.

"Quasi" because I agree with Marxian economics and sociology, but as a religious person I do not agree with it's dogmatic materialist metaphysics.

I have been dreaming of dragging the Democratic Party to the left since I was a teenager in the early 00s, and Bernie almost seems like a miracle to me.

[morningfog]

86. Hell yeah! Burn it down!

[MrMickeysMom]

88. Holy crap... You are actually believing this? Where do I begin?

This sounds like a B movie lecture on the hazards of breathing. The majority of people breathing with an IQ within one standard deviation from the norm understand when they are exposed to what Sanders has consistently said for over 40 years, and you think this has nothing to do with a democracy? Is that supposed to have anything to do with being a registered Independent who admits to the tenants of democratic socialism?

Here are the tenants put forth in how to change from so much being controlled by so few, which is essential happens when unfettered capitalism advances to the point where corporate entities are equal to people, and therefore dictate state and federal legislation that is passed by those who are supposed to represent people Just in case you haven't looked into this:

Healthcare as a right (single payer) allows everyone in society preventative, acute care services, long term care services, health maintenance services.

Public funding of education allows every person who is educated K-12 who meets criteria to continue on basic educational facilities and that is why it has been suggested that what was once in existence be continued as education available to all people. The goal, however, remains the same, which is to educate and train a work force who can be gainfully employed. It does not eliminate business. It makes business work to achieve its goal.

Democratic socialism is committed to more liberty, and what makes you think this equivalent to a "hostile take-over" of democracy? It enables people who have better education, health and working conditions to contribute towards the running of this country. It means that workers can collectively bargin (which is a two-way process). It means realization of this liberty allows the people to become part of the political process when intervention of state is essential. They have the tools as any advanced society should. Time to work, time to rest and take care of their family.

Here me loud and clear on this one. Sanders has said what other have said. The fact that the others are dead and you maybe didn't read very much about FDR's tenants of socialism in the form of the second bill of rights, means you should read more history.

[Kip Humphrey]

93. Just taking it back from the Corporate Socialists, that's all.

[kennetha]

123. Can't see how

you can "take back" a thing you never owned or were ever a part of.

[mmonk]

94. It was taken over in the '80's.

We will not live in fear.

[cali]

95. Jaysus. The amount of far right wing rhetoric from Clinton

supporters is goddamn scary. Scratch some self-identified liberals and what is revealed is.... interesting.

[cali]

98. Paul Starr is another Clinton Fla k. Hilly is deploying her lying toadies.

[emsimon33]

97. There was already a hostile takeover: By the Third Way, neo-liberals

We are merely taking it back!

[CoffeeCat]

100. It only feels hostile to Third Wayers and neocons

To the rest if us in the Democratic party who want peace, equality, universal healthcare, less corruption, fairness and livable wages it feels like the Calvary of love, hope, joy and decency is saving us from the brink of white-hot hell.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

102. More like a hostage rescue mission if you ask me.

[seaotter]

103. You say that as if it were a bad thing.

[kennetha]

106. just a thing

[99Forever]

104. Think of it as a friendly clawback.

Those that aren't happy about it, are welcome to return to the Republican party they came from.

[PowerToThePeople]

105. I do not see guillotines at his rallys.

"Hostile" is a bit over the top.

You just made it to my ignore list.

[fourcents]

107. Wrong Wrong Wrong First off Bernie Sanders says he is a Democratic Socialist...

He is moving the populist to be engaged in the democratic process, if you are for Democracy then you would be getting more with him that represent the 99 percent. If you are for wall street 2016 or what ever then vote that way. Bernie is founding member of the progressive party do you have a problem with that? If your part of the third way DLC or blue dog Democrats I understand why you have a problem with Bernie. By the way the party use to be much more socialist and dominated the elections.

[CharlotteVale]

108. Cue Twilight Zone theme song.

[MuseRider]

113. Do we need hearings?

LOL this hysteria is beyond funny. It has now risen to the lengths that I sincerely worry about people who say these things.

Have you ever been a Democratic Socialist?

I surrender. I admit that I think of myself as a socialist. Somehow I am just not too worried about being reported.

Personally I believe the Democratic party left the reservation long ago and needs some new blood, some that reflect the people and not the elite political insiders. I believe he just may be able to bring our party back to us regular folks.

[Mufaddal]

117. Bernie's feelings about the DP are nothing secret

He views it as beholden to largely the same special interests as the GOP, and that's why he runs as an independent. That's also why many of us from Vermont repeatedly voted for him. He has made it very clear that he is running in the DP because sadly we have a two-party monopoly, and of course, with that comes infrastructure. It's not like he's tried to hide this and you've now hit on some big conspiracy: he's openly sad it on more than a few occasions when interviewed about his decision to enter the race after Warren declined to do so. If him entering the Dems to clean house is a "hostile takeover," then I wish him all the success in the world.

Now, confusing him with an SP or CP candidate is not just red-baiting, but silly, and belies a level of ignorance about Bernie's history as well as the history of the radical left in America. Also, I think you meant to say Democratic Socialists of America in your initial post.

[kennetha]

122. Well, I do think it's rather obvious

What he's up to. Not a big discovery. Takes five minute thought to see it.

[hootinholler]

125. The thing I can't figure out is...

Did you think this up by yourself or did you get help?

[cantbeserious]

126. Hardly - The Hostility Is That Shown By The Establishment - DNC, DLC, Third-Way - And Their Cronies

eom

[kennetha]

127. Is it the word 'hostile' that you are objecting to?

maybe you think lefties don't do "hostile?"

[cantbeserious]

128. Not Objecting - Refocusing

eom

[grntuscarora]

134. You seem absurdly focused on the definition of "hostile".

Just substitute the word "reclaiming" for "hostile", and I think you'll be closer to the mark.

[kennetha]

145. But Sanders can't "reclaim"

something he was never a member of. He's coming from the outside trying to seize control of something he never owned as his own. So "hostile" seems perfectly appropriate.

I guess Sanders supporters, who are also Democrats, especially if they are long-time democrats, might find that an uncomfortable thing to say. But I don't really see why.

[grntuscarora]

194. The ideals and aspirations that were traditionally held by the Dem Party

back in the days of FDR can rightfully be reclaimed by anyone that has ever adhered to them.

eom.

[Armstead]

139. My, my,my...The hyperbolie and Red Baiting continues

Joe McCarthy would be smiling.

[kennetha]

146. Red Baiting?

I didn't say being a socialist was bad. So why is it red baiting to call someone what they call themselves?

[Armstead]

153. Man the gates. The Militant Socialists are trying to Destroy the Democratic Party

Yes, Red Baiting.

[kennetha]

157. Bernie is a life-long Socialist

That's just a fact. He's PROUD of that. You seem afraid to call a spade a spade. Why?

[Armstead]

162. Because people like you use the GOP memes to distort what it means

If Sanders were proposing the abolition of private property, the nationalization of all industry, the end of capitalism and State Planning of all aspects of life, you might have a point.

But what he stands for is simply a return to the basic liberalism that was once the bread and butter of the Democratic Party.

[kennetha]

165. He's a democratic socialist of European style.. not a communist or a stalinist.

You think people are that stupid ... well, maybe they are. But we aren't on this board.

But if people are that stupid... he's got a bigger problem if he gets to the general election.

[Armstead]

167. There is plenty of fodder for intelligent discussion about the nuances but....

writes hyperbolic posts about an attempted Hostile Takeover by Militant Leftists is not the way to engage in anything otehr than "nyah,nyah" mudfests.

[kennetha]

171. "hostile" just means "from the outside" here

and against the will of the party hierarchy. "militant" just means openly unwilling to compromise with the center-left, etc.

those are just descriptive terms.

not meant to convey any particular evaluation. that should be clear from context.


Anyway, the reaction of Sanders supporters to this thought is making me think that at some level you too are worried about the negative valence of the "socialist" label, at least when it comes to the general election.

I think a wiser strategy would be to change the valence of the term, not deny the reality of the term. That's what Sanders is trying to do. But he's got no real choice, I guess, since he's been a socialist his entire adult life, by his own self-declaration.

[Armstead]

180. You can't walk it back

I'm with Bernie all the way. I'm willing to compromise. I expect the Democratic Party would continue to be made up of a wide spectrum of center-to-left, including mioderates.

But I'm not willing to go along with continual movements from the "center" (whatever that is) to the right to further gut the social safety net, outsource the US economy, give corporations, big banks and wealthy investors even more power, and continue to allow them to starve the treasury through sophisticated tax evasion schemes.


I think the majority of Bernie supporters share that perspective. I think Bernie also shares it.

[Oilwellian]

143. We want it all and we want it now

Meow.

[frylock]

183. What do we want? EVERYTHING! When do we want it? RIGHT FUCKING MEOW!

[restorefreedom]

144. more like recover a party that has lost its soul,

its true purpose, and its humanity.

[workinclasszero]

147. That exactly what Bernie

Is trying to do.

It's well documented that Bernie Sanders has hated the democratic party and it's members for all of his decades in politics.

He even said in a speech that he would be a hypocrite to run as a democrat after the things he's said about it.

And here he is today, a self described hypocrite, running for president as a democrat!

I will never trust Bernie Sanders because of what he has said in the past about the party.

[Odin2005]

192. Everything he said about the party was true.

Unfortunately with the way our electoral systems are structured 3rd parties rarely work and so the only alternative is a takeover.

As someone who has been a radical Leftist since I was in High School and protesting Dim Son's illegal war Bernie's movement is everything I have dreamed about for well over a decade.

[workinclasszero]

196. No small cadre of reddit trolls

And keyboard warriors is going to take over the party.

You all are extremely lucky that the first two primaries are held in small 95% plus white states.

If the first two were say, Texas and Florida the Burnie Underground would be holding a wake right now lol.

Where exactly is the Bernie revolution anyway?

It sure as hell ain't outside my window marching in the streets like occupy did or the Vietnam protesters did, or the hundreds of thousands that came to see president Obama get sworn in, or the great masses of people in MLKs poor peoples March on Washington.

I ask again....where is the Bernie revolution?

[Odin2005]

197. It's all around you, you're just not paying attention.

The vast, vast majority of people 35 and younger support Bernie over Hillary. We Millennials DESPISE Hillary.

[workinclasszero]

200. John Lewis

Put his life and his body on the line for what he believes in and he backs Hillary 100%.

He is worth a million keyboard warriors at least.

Funny how millennials on the left and hardcore right both despise Hillary.

What else do you all have in common with fascists?

[Bad Thoughts]

148. Unlike Nader, Sanders is running against the Left's other major candidate

There is a long, legitimate conversation that can be had about how both Sanders and Clinton fit into the broad legacy of the Democratic Party. However, after years of Democrats complaining that Nader siphoned away votes from Gore, it is silly to complain that Sanders is running as a Democrat.

[kennetha]

150. Well, you have to ask

What are his motives for running in a party that he has long spurned as just one of the two parties of the ruling class?

You think it's pure altruism?

[Bad Thoughts]

156. No, I think he represents a strand of Democratic politics that has existed since the 60s

I don't prefer his politics, by I recognize it for what it is.

[kennetha]

161. But he's never been willing to identify himself as a strand of democrats.

Not sure why. It would have made his political life easier, obviously. But he's a proud non-democrat and a proud socialist. There is no upside in identifying himself as a socialist. But he's done it throughout his political career.

Why so many Sanders supporters are reluctant to call him a socialist is a little puzzling.

[Cheese Sandwich]

149. Run 3rd party, get chastised as a spoiler. Run in the Dem primary, get called an intruder.

It seems we can't do anything right.

[workinclasszero]

158. He could have joined the party 30 years ago

But naw Bernie stayed in his ivory tower and threw rocks at democrats instead.

[Cheese Sandwich]

163. "ivory tower"

You don't know what that means huh?

Bernie Sanders has never run for president before.

Some Hillary Clinton supporters seem so intellectually dishonest. They keep spamming the whole wide internet with fake arguments.

[workinclasszero]

170. Yes Bernie stayed independent so

He could be self righteous and criticize democrats.

[Cheese Sandwich]

181. He never would have survived in the Democratic Party.

It's incredibly corrupt and awash with corporate money. They would have run him out on a rail. No socialists allowed! Might offend the corporate donors.

[ViseGrip]

151. Bernie is the best! The 'party' has shown itself for all to see this time around.

[Odin2005]

154. A "hostile takeover" backed by most Dems under the age of 50.

[stage left]

193. And more of them

over the age of fifty than most realize, I do believe.

[dchill]

155. Yes. Yes he is. It's way overdue.

He's the first candidate in decades that is actually acting like a Democrat, and who actually wants to DO the job, not just cap off an ego bucket list. IMO.

[JackInGreen]

160. If this is a party coup

I volenteer for service in driving out everything that's ruined us, with Bernie at the lead all the better.

[Beacool]

164. Yes, that's precisely what he's attempting to do.

"Sanders and his supporters see the party support for Clinton as evidence that “the establishment” is against him. But there are two other interpretations. What party leaders necessarily care about is winning the next election. They look at the electability of the presidential candidate as it affects the electoral prospects of candidates at all levels, including their own. The endorsement primary is a symptom of deep anxiety about what Sanders would do to the entire party’s fortunes in November.

The lack of support for Sanders among elected Democrats may also reflect his lack of support for them. During 2015, Clinton raised $18 million for other Democratic candidates, while Sanders did no fundraising for them at all. Those are just last year’s numbers. The difference in party fundraising between them going back decades would surely be even more dramatic. After all, before this campaign began, Sanders was emphatic that he was not a Democrat.

Sanders has left a long trail of denunciations of the Democratic Party. He began on the revolutionary left; in 1980, he served as an elector for the Socialist Workers’ Party, founded by Leon Trotsky and committed to nationalizing major industries. In 1989 he said the Democrats and Republicans were “in reality, one party—the party of the ruling class.” That year he wrote an op-ed in the New York Times describing the two parties as “tweedle-dee” and “tweedle-dum” since both subscribed to what he called an “ideology of greed and vulgarity.” As the Republican Party has moved to the right, Sanders has said the Democrats are better, but he has refused to run as a Democrat and continued to insist—as late as the 2012 election—that he is not a Democrat because the party fails to support the interests of workers.Though he refers to “Wall Street” and “big corporations” in his current campaign rather than to “the ruling class,” his attacks on Democrats are basically the same as before. They’re just focused on Clinton now. But what he says about her he could just as easily say about most Democrats running for Congress or in the states—and they surely know it."


Democrats in office do not consider Sanders to be a Democrat. They have already voiced concerns about down tickets. Many will prefer to run alone and keep Sanders far away from their campaigns.

"If Sanders had conspicuously changed his positions as well as his rhetoric at some time in the past, his early history might not have posed as serious a problem for the party as it does. But he’s still talking about a revolution in the name of socialism, and, let’s give him credit—that’s not just rhetoric."

Sanders should have been honest and ran as an Independent, which is what he really is. He's no Democrat.

[kennetha]

168. Telling that the Sanders Supporters

can't be honest with themselves about this.

[Beacool]

174. Sanders has always taken pride in being an Independent.

But he seems to have had no compunction into joining the political party, that he spent years criticizing, out of political expediency. So much for honesty.

[kennetha]

175. I don't think it's just expediency

that makes it sound purely self-serving. There is that. But he wants a political apparatus that's dedicated to the socialist cause. There isn't a robust one around. The democratic party is still very robust. Seize that. Turn it into a socialist party and presto - there is no a genuinely socialist party -- of Western European vintage, not of Soviet vintage -- in America.

If he can pull it off, it will be quite a feat. You have to admit that.

[Beacool]

212. Yes, but by the same token that I don't think that Trump will be the Republican nominee,

I don't think that when the voting is done that Sanders will be the Democratic nominee. Of course, I could be wrong. We'll have a clearer picture after Super Tuesday.

[workinclasszero]

195. And Bernie backers say Hillary can't win in the general?

He began on the revolutionary left; in 1980, he served as an elector for the Socialist Workers’ Party, founded by Leon Trotsky and committed to nationalizing major industries.

WTH.....I'm certain that the republicans won't be screaming this info 24/7 on hate radio and tv.

Talk about red meat for the teabagger masses! Damn.

[Beacool]

210. Yep, the ads just write themselves.

They have been calling any Democrat, the Clintons, Obama, etc.; Marxists, Communists, Socialists and more. Now the Democrats have a self described Socialist in their ranks running for president. Albeit a "Democratic" Socialist, but does anyone think that Republicans will make that distinction? Hell, no. This is one craaaazy election year.

[gollygee]

166. The Democratic Party is whatever the Democratic Primary voters say it is

If he's elected, he's representative of the Party.

[Wig Master]

173. A chilling vision of things to come

[img][/img]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

177. I'm not hostile to his efforts. It's way overdue to make the party leftist rather than

a pale imitation of the Repubs.

[Perogie]

178. here.

[frylock]

185. I look at it as more of a search and recovery mission.

[Cheese Sandwich]

186. Bernie is coming in from the outside to rescue the Democratic Party from the Wall St. Devils.

[Kalidurga]

187. Good

I am so glad Democrats are running scared from their own policies that have screwed people over. Now they are scared that people are actually going to vote in their best interests instead of corporate interests.

[JackRiddler]

198. You mean, like the DLC did back in the late 80s, 90s?

It's about time someone tried to take it back.

May the one who gets the most VOTES win.

[wilsonbooks]

201. The thing about the Democratic Party is that , if it has a future, it rests with those

millions of young people out there who are flocking to support Bernie. The party can either welcome them in and incorporate their energy and enthusiasm or it can wither and die, to be replaced by a new party. It is really that simple.

[Doctor_J]

203. The commies are coming!!!11!1!11!!!

As for such a party not being a majority soon, how's that turd way working for you?

[Ferd Berfel]

209. THe Party was sold, out from under us, to the Koch Bros

and their ilk.

What ever it takes to get it back, and kick out the right wing corporatists, is ok by me

I think the term Hostile is histrionic and Rovian

[reflection]

219. No such thing as a "hostile takeover" of a party.

If enough Democrats decide he represents their values, then they will drag the party to where they think it should belong. Where is the hostility?

[kennetha]

220. Sanders is not a Democrat.

Many of his voters are not Democrats.

That's the hostility. Stupid that we allow these open primaries.