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Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:16 PM

Tonight could have been Rmoney's death knell

With the latest polling data, many of Rmoney's big money donors were quietly looking for the exit and potentially getting ready to stitch sides in order to be with the winner. Slimebags like Rove were beginning to shift monies away from Rmoney and put them instead in down-ticket elections for Senate and House. A good performance by the President might well have been the final touch to push all of them and make Rmoney's Presidential bid a dead item. But I fear that with the President's lackluster performance tonite, particularly when combined with his inability to challenge Rmoney on the myriad of lies he spouted are going to breathe a whole new life into the Rmoney campaign. The end result may well be an election a hell of a lot more in doubt than it should have been and that's a damn shame. I don't know why the President is unable to show more balls in confrontation with Rethuglicans. It's a trait which has in large part ruined much of his first term and may in the final analisys cost him his second term.

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Reply Tonight could have been Rmoney's death knell (Original post)
COLGATE4 Oct 2012 OP
AZ Progressive Oct 2012 #1
COLGATE4 Oct 2012 #8
Floyd_Gondolli Oct 2012 #2
skeewee08 Oct 2012 #3
COLGATE4 Oct 2012 #9
Chan790 Oct 2012 #13
COLGATE4 Oct 2012 #16
Carolina Oct 2012 #15
doc03 Oct 2012 #4
ailsagirl Oct 2012 #5
chknltl Oct 2012 #6
flamingdem Oct 2012 #7
jsmirman Oct 2012 #11
chknltl Oct 2012 #12
chknltl Oct 2012 #17
jsmirman Oct 2012 #19
chknltl Oct 2012 #20
jsmirman Oct 2012 #10
Carolina Oct 2012 #14
mvd Oct 2012 #18

Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:19 PM

1. At least Democrats won't be complacent like they were in 2010

And thus more likely to vote.

Still, I think the real thing here is that YOU and many Democrats underestimated Romney. Romney is a business executive, which is an egomaniacal, aggressive, and extremely ambitious position. You should've known how badly he wants this position, how he wants to be President and think of himself better than his dad who couldn't be. So of course he will come out fighting in this debate.

Still, this doesn't mean that Romney will win. We are 5 weeks away from the election. Obama pulled of one of the best campaigns ever in 2008, Obama's not stupid. Romney may be doing aggressive boxing but Obama may be doing judo.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:50 AM

8. I didn't underestimate Rmoney. I

overestimated Obama.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:20 PM

2. Lotta ball game left folks

 

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Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:21 PM

3. It's the 1st quarter we still have 3 more

The VP debate & 2 Presidential debates

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Response to skeewee08 (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:53 AM

9. That may be true. But this was, IMO

a truly missed opportunity to essentially put Rmoney away once and for all. And the President, for reasons which are totally unclear to me, let it get away.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:59 PM

13. Going to point this out...then duck!!

 

We don't want Romney put away this early because all of that money will flow into downticket close races.

We rather need Romney to keep sucking up all the air and money in the room on the GOP side of the aisle because the longer they have to prop up a guy who is basically simply not going to break 269EC votes, the more resources they have to waste on this moron, the less they have to spend to hold the House and take the Senate.

String the motherfucker along a little bit longer. A little bit longer still.

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 08:54 AM

16. I wish I thought you were right. But, since this

is just another of the President's failures to confront Rethug bullying, I'm afraid it is more an indelible characteristic of his style than a tactical manuever.

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Response to skeewee08 (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:32 PM

15. I am sooooo

tired of the chess or ball or other game (lame) analogies. This election and the future of this country is no fucking game.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)


Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:22 PM

5. Please-- I feel bad enough already!!

Good points.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:38 PM

6. Three words: Rope a DOPE

Money about to be re-earmarked from Romney to down-ticketers now heading back to Romney? If so: oh darn.

I recall hearing on other occasions that President Obama knows something about using the Rope A Dope tactic. Just a theory but is it possible we are witness to a masterclass example of this tactic in it's early stage? Is it possible this tactic is working even on us, his as of late 'over confident' base too?

Well that's my conspiracy theory and i'll stick with it till someone comes along and changes my mind.

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Response to chknltl (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:41 PM

7. I agree, love to see Rove pour money into Willard and let us win back the house and senate

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Response to chknltl (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:07 AM

11. Two words: Enthusiasm Gap

Four Words: Obama just ganked it.

A few more words: Limitless money on their side for every race they think they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

You can't possibly tell me that dumping landfill into the enthusiasm gap is a clever strategy in any manner.

And let me tell you what campaigns truly get the additional juice they need beyond the campaign pod people both campaigns have staffed - they rely on ordinary people being asked to make extraordinary sacrifices. To do things that don't necessarily make sense in terms of giving up time not easily available, to dig into the pockets and overall resources really on faith and in light of confidence that your sacrifice has a meaning.

Easily translated: those are the bones of an enthusiasm gap.

Crushing the enthusiasm of your plus supporters and emboldening the other side's downtrodden who had started to wander back to their fields because they decided they couldn't miss harvest time - what a disastrous strategy that would be. Instead, it's just a brutal self-inflicted wound.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:40 PM

12. Then let us see what we shall see.

Let us revisit this 48 hours from now and remeasure the fallout from last night's debate.

Romney's was an act. PERIOD. Was President Obama also acting? Undoubtably, but time will tell how much of his 'performance' was actual weakness, and how much was deliberate Rope A Dope.

My considerations:
We knew going into this that the debates were unlikely to significantly change poll numbers. Over the next 48 hours I do not expect to see any significant changes in the poll numbers.

We knew going into this that any change of poll numbers were going to be a modest bump for Romney. Over the next 48 hrs. I suspect we shall see this happen.

We knew going into this that in order for that modest bump to Romney to happen, Romney was going to have to lie his ass off. Romney did just that.

Over the next 48 hrs, that modest bump, if I am right will begin to erode and the erosion will be due to Romney's lies exposed-lies exposed by the fact checkers.

If I am right, President Obama will be seen as the pragmatism who showed up to debate his vision and his record, which is what he did.

Romney will be seen as a lieing bully willing to say just about anything ANYTHING to get elected.....which is exactly what he did. (Yep, Romney hates PBS!)

Imo, Hillary Clinton and John McCain were both far FAR better at fighting against B. Obama than Romney has been able to so far. We have seen how things turned out for them.

Imo last night's performance by both sides will be a gift that gives and gives and gives for the Obama campaign. If I am right, the perceived weakness of President Obama's performance last night will collect in the dustbins of history.

I suspect history will recall this first debate as one between a calm, pragmatic visionary and frantic liar willing to fire Big Bird..... which is what we saw last night.

I have faith in my President, I have faith that he knows exactly what he is doing. He lost no votes last night and In the end he may have actually gained much more than what you and many on our side think he may have lost.

Btw: as the resident 'sky is falling' guy, I feel very odd being among the few calm ones around here today...especially after listening to the armchair analysis going on in the radio media. I am in the tiniest of minorities with my viewpoint, yours is the one shared by the majority....we shall see what we shall see.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 10:58 AM

17. Now then.....

A bit down the road looking back we see elements that we were both right. Did President Obama use a Rope A Dope strategy? Arguably. We now see that Romney tried to bring out the angry black man unsuccessfully. We now see that our President's strategy was to stay calm at all costs. We see Romney relied on lies and Obama countered with facts.

We knew going in to the debate that the media was going to call the debate for Romney, we knew this because they need the close race because it is good for their bottom line. Plenty of OPs here in the DU pointed this out prior to the debate.

We have known for months and months now that the Mittster was backed into a corner, one where he had little left but lies, same with the entire GOP. That corner was one of their own manufacture, that corner was one our President shined ample light on during the debate, that corner of course is the GOP manufactured economic lie known as Trickle Down Economics.

So if debates are boats, which one took a few ineffectual shots across the bow and which one smacked right into an iceberg of their own manufacture?

Look back at what you wrote as a response to me, did President Obama REALLY crap on our parade or did President Obama let the Mittster crap on the entire GOP?

As a fellow DUer much more eloquent than I said yesterday: If your opponent is busy trying to shoot himself in the foot, don't take his gun away.

Have a little more faith in our President, unless I am way off in my calculations he sure looks like he is innit to winnit. Let us hope that the last 48 hours saw $ diverted from repukes downticket to a 'reinvigorated' bid to lie steal and cheat Romney into the White House was large.

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Response to chknltl (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 01:06 PM

19. The opponent has unlimited money

the idea that they can't fund *both* strikes me as absurd and as denying the reality of just how much money they have to spend.

The intense nature of how the campaign is now leaning on citizen donors like myself to make up for Barack reinvigorating the Republican money machine - yeah, not just fun and games for me.

Yes, he really crapped on my parade, by giving a wet paper bag of a performance.

I'll post about Patty Murray's letter as to why all of us who actually feel each dollar we give should just give more because DEADLINE!!!!! It's the October 7th after October 6th!!!! And BARACK SCRATCHED HIMSELF THIS MORNING! SEND $3! OR MORE THAN $75!!!

In a post-Citizens United world, those of us who have given until it hurts deserve our guy to fight to take full advantage of 90 minutes of FREE TELEVISION TIME WITH AN AUDIENCE OF 60 MILLION.

Not to be asked to give more to do post-debate damage control.

I have more to say, but I'm getting angrier reading the delusional nonsense that just grows by the day about what happened.

You like ships? When the other guy is taking on water and presents himself for a broadside, you sink the motherfucker.

You don't let him sail away to have a party on his newly patched up yacht.

It's done, but I'll be damned if I'm going to drink the koolaid.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #19)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 04:26 PM

20. Driving up or down poll numbers

At the end of the day driving poll numbers is what counts. That debate did not drive Obama poll numbers down. That debate hardly drove Romney's up and by now that up has dropped!

If you want to believe I am drinking koolaid then I am loving koolaid! When the poll numbers reflect what you are pushing then maybe I'll let you serve me up some of your koolaid....until then, that picture and that pitcher-is all yours.....

I dunno, it seems that you ain't gettin enough bang for your buck out of us Dems, sorry you feel that way.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:00 AM

10. Last night should have been - disasterous performance

the things we could have accomplished if last night had been the death knell it should have been by our President fighting for himself and for us by revealing the changeable nature of his opponents' positions and what it said about his inability to speak honestly and with any accountability to the American people.

And oh the things we could have accomplished overall, if he had only done this.

Our enthusiasm was peaking, they were dispirited and cowering in their holes, the bow was ready to break, and now we have a tooth and nail race and at best a very mixed result in November.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:30 PM

14. K&R

totally agree. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result is simply ___________ (fill in the blank).

You can't play nice with bullies, and that's what repukes and Mitt are. You MUST stand up to them, get right back in their faces and nail them on the BULLSHIT!

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Response to Carolina (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:06 AM

18. That is my biggest complaint about Obama. I still think he won and..

had a good strategy in mind. It just could have been carried out with better body language and countering the lies.

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