HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Who would ever want to as...

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:41 PM

Who would ever want to ask our young people to scale back their dreams and goals?

...politicians like Clinton are schooling young people to expect less and ask for less. It's a campaign - inspire people, especially young people, who will have to deal with the mess once we middle-aged and older people have passed on. What will we leave for them??? So glad that Sanders is putting these perspectives into the political conversation, and it's up to us to turn it into policy!!...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1221556


IMO Bernie's approach gives them the opportunity to fight for idealistic things, Clinton's Me my banks and I approach would discourage fighting for or dreaming of a future they want, a future they need, telling us instead to rely on her and others like her to compromise away the fight in favor of "getting things done"
One can only assume by finding common ground with a John Birch Society/near fascistic Republican party, something she claims only she can do.

If her Mentors Bill Clinton, and Henry Kissinger are any indication of how she would "get things done" it would not only mean giving up on fighting and dreaming of a better, more equitable future, it would mean compromises that favor the wealthy, cut funding for the needy (and likely encourage more profit from college dept), more private prisons and more quotas to fill them, and more free trade that represents corporate interests that will send more jobs overseas leaving our youth nothing but service jobs at a min wage where she would begin negotiations at $12/hr and "compromise" on something less. Those compromises represent the Bill Clinton Mentorship.

The values she learned from her good friend and mentor Henry Kissinger will leave our young people another option to min wage jobs, a career in the military as she will continue along the path (one of her only consistent paths) to fight in wars sometimes preemptively as per her faith in the Bush Doctrine, as well as engaging in regime change across the world including but not limited to overthrowing Democratically elected leaders in favor of any blood-thirsty warlord that will agree to allow US corporate interests to thrive, let's call that the Kissinger doctrine (or what he calls a pragmatic use of our military might to help further our country's interests

They (the younger generation) deserve a chance to fight rather than have no power as the chosen establishment pieces move about the board compromising away their hopes, dreams, and futures.

I want them to have the chance that we did when we fought the good fight and achieved some of our liberal goals. They decided (our party in the eighties, culminating in '92) that there would no longer be a party to fight with the idealistic youth for things like labor rights, The New Deal, The Great Society, Civil Liberties, Equality for Women and the last attempted fight that died on the vine, the fight against poverty that was abandoned in favor of a fight against the poor via welfare reform.

They deserve to fight for these things as we did, not because they are easy, but because they are necessary to their survival.

They deserve more than the smell of sulfur that summons forth a demon of lesser evil that says "no you can't!" - "I will compromise away your fight for you so you may have the crumbs my corporate sponsors allow you to have."

They deserve the right to fight as well as leadership that will help rather than hinder that fight.
We all had that (us older folk) but took it for granted. They have only had dismissal and the lack of support offered by Vichy Republican collaborators.

Let us help them elect someone (many ones) that will allow them to fight.

78 replies, 4309 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 78 replies Author Time Post
Reply Who would ever want to ask our young people to scale back their dreams and goals? (Original post)
Dragonfli Feb 2016 OP
SHRED Feb 2016 #1
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #30
noretreatnosurrender Feb 2016 #52
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #61
noretreatnosurrender Feb 2016 #64
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #65
LWolf Feb 2016 #2
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #29
Octafish Feb 2016 #3
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #8
tk2kewl Feb 2016 #4
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #6
Paulie Feb 2016 #5
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #9
MerryBlooms Feb 2016 #7
stevenleser Feb 2016 #10
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #11
stevenleser Feb 2016 #12
PyaarRevolution Feb 2016 #72
LAS14 Feb 2016 #27
treestar Feb 2016 #33
Meldread Feb 2016 #13
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #16
stevenleser Feb 2016 #17
Fumesucker Feb 2016 #34
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #41
TBF Feb 2016 #73
haikugal Feb 2016 #74
CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #14
stevenleser Feb 2016 #15
CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #19
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #20
oasis Feb 2016 #18
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #21
oasis Feb 2016 #23
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #25
frylock Feb 2016 #38
Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #22
oasis Feb 2016 #24
frylock Feb 2016 #40
oasis Feb 2016 #42
frylock Feb 2016 #44
oasis Feb 2016 #45
frylock Feb 2016 #46
oasis Feb 2016 #47
jeff47 Feb 2016 #76
PowerToThePeople Feb 2016 #26
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #28
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #31
treestar Feb 2016 #32
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #37
treestar Feb 2016 #43
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #50
amborin Feb 2016 #63
LongTomH Feb 2016 #35
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #48
LineLineReply .
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #49
Fumesucker Feb 2016 #36
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #39
Hoyt Feb 2016 #51
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #54
Hoyt Feb 2016 #56
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #58
Hoyt Feb 2016 #60
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #62
SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #53
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #55
AzDar Feb 2016 #57
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #59
liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #66
slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #67
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #68
slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #69
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #70
slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #71
haikugal Feb 2016 #75
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #77
Dragonfli Feb 2016 #78

Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:44 PM

1. BIG K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SHRED (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:09 PM

30. Thanks! I write very few OPs, largely because few ever read them, I appreciate your K&R /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:02 PM

52. I read them

I read the op's and I also use the links to read articles off site. Thank you so much for taking the time to post this excellent op.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:15 PM

61. Thanks brother / or Sister (sorry I don't know which so as to properly address you)

Your post, this one I am responding to now, means more to me at this time than you may know, let me explain.

I am also a member of another site http://jackpineradicals.org/ a site devoted not just to the memory of a long time a member of DU that was one of the greats but no longer with us, it is also a site devoted solely to getting Bernie Sanders elected and to help him realize his vision. I have known dozens of members there for over ten years, some of them from not only DU and JPR but also from other progressive sites that are now defunct. I know a hundred others there less well for less long but respect them.

I posted this same OP there, and not a single brother or sister read it, let alone reply to it, it kinda made me feel I should stop writing OP's all together, because they are largely ignored (when an OP like this is posted in a Bernie stronghold it is time for a would be author of OPs to admit he sucks at it when it is ignored and shunned), so I had to admit I just must suck at it.

But your reply here came just after checking there again after a couple of days of them still shunning me, it made me feel better for what it is worth.

About 1/10 of my few OPs over the past 11 years are in my Journal, you are free to read them all.
Thank you so very much for such kind praise at just the right time.

D

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 01:48 AM

64. Glad I could help

I will check out your journal this week. By the way don't stop writing the op's. You never know when what you write clicks with someone else or makes them think. They may not make a comment but it just might stick with them and influence them. Have a great evening. I'd give you another official heart but I used up my last one earlier tonight. I can, however, give you this one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:02 AM

65. I can give you this in reply

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:45 PM

2. Not I.

I am happy to help them, to help us, elect many that will allow us to fight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LWolf (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 09:45 PM

29. And we shall! We are legion, there are those that would divide the 99%, if they can't we win.

Beware those that would turn the poor against the poor, those that struggle have a common enemy, the 1%.
Any that would divide us for political reasons (no matter what party they belong to) are on team 1%, always remember that.

When I see it happening in our own party, it really hurts, but proves the simple truth that many politicians on both sides are owned and controlled by the 1%

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:48 PM

3. ''We have more will than wallet.''

-- George Herbert Walker Bush, inaugural address, Jan. 20, 1989

A year later, he found a trillion dollars to bail out the nation's S&L's, including Silverado Savings where his son Neil Bush helped "disappear" close to a billion dollars.

You are absolutely spot-on, Dragonfli. We the People can do anything. And in these, the wealthiest times in human history, deserve more than austerity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Octafish (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:06 PM

8. Damn right we do! Especially if we get together rather than falling for the tactics

that would divide the 99% into groups set against one another (as one campaign is attempting to do even as I post this).

I saw a YOUTUBE put out by Sanders that agrees wit the tactic of coming together, the man has the map and the plan, including the key to the map that shows us that unity is strength, strength again to dream and then fight again to make thse dreams a reality.

I just assume (correct me if I am wrong) that like me in your youth you were part of the coming together, a part of the fight that made some of our youthful dreams a reality (if not all of them unfortunately)

If so, let's get it together one more time united with the younger stronger dreamers to help them accomplish their dreams for the future

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:50 PM

4. Me, my banks and I

 

Good meme

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tk2kewl (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:54 PM

6. Not mine, I have seen it used around the board but can not recollect who first started it /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:52 PM

5. Inspiration instead of dismissiveness

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Paulie (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:12 PM

9. He also knew the map and the key to getting it done, if only he had not been assasinated

Many more dreams would have been made manifest.

Still,, even with his life and mission cut short - he inspires millions with his message. There is very little doubt in my mind that he was a key figure in what inspired Sanders to be the man he is and the man that fights for what he does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:54 PM

7. Rec & Kick.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:14 PM

10. At what point does a rational discussion of obstacles to goals enter the picture?

 

I have a 21 year old and 10 month old. I didn't raise the older one and won't raise the younger one to behave as if real obstacles to their goals don't exist.

We won't have an opportunity to elect a Democratic House until November of 2022.

The rational response to that obstacle is to realize that until then no real progress is possible, and work to win back state legislatures so that we will not be in the same position after 2020. Ignoring this obstacle can result in the same problem persisting to January of 2033 or longer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:23 PM

11. The biggest obstacle of all is a self determined defeatism, a lack to even fight but to concede.

I have no interest at all in discussing anything with a fox news faux progressive that is invited when ever they need a caricature of the real thing to use as a punching bag.

In short, we have nothing to discuss. Think of it as an honor, I have nothing to discuss with Joe Lieberman either.

Goodbye

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #11)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:26 PM

12. Thanks for the Berniebros response of attacking folks whose inconvenient truths you don't like

 

And no, that's not the biggest obstacle.

Elections have consequences and we have a process by which districts are drawn. No amount of optimism or defeatism will change that.

You and your candidate, who also goes on Fox News by the way, have no plan for addressing any of that. Thats beyond optimism or defeatism. That is simply not having answers and failing to plan.

And again, thank you for demonstrating that Berniebros do exist and how they operate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 07:01 AM

72. You are missing a big point.

How the fuck is Hillary's message suppose to get any supporter of Bernie, with his ideas that "Yes we can!" have tuition free college and Universal Medicare for all, enthused? Oh sure, they may vote for her, even campaign for her but how do you really expect the possibility of her voted on in substantial numbers when they can't get excited about her? Tell me how they're going to call people to vote for Hillary? "She's not Donald Trump or John Kasich." Oh yeah, that's really inspiring and her being the first woman is not GOOD enough. It's not enough of a sea change for me to get excited.
I think you need to read and RE-read the OP because you're really not absorbing it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:11 PM

27. What do we do...

.... when people (responder #11) won't engage in discussion? Won't respond the the question? I'm really depressed by the line in the sand attitude of democrats on both sides of the divide.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:15 PM

33. Dreaming the obstacle away

just doesn't work. Something has to be done. That means campaigning for lower offices and considering who is in them. It's a pure pipe dream that Bernie's coattails will do it. And that's the only answer we're ever going to get.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:27 PM

13. I find this position really weird.

I am undecided between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. However, this line of attempted persuasion toward Sanders comes off to me as really weird.

My entire political life has been about keeping the eye to the long term goals. As a Queer person, I was asked by many of the people supporting Sanders to support other candidates in the past who stood against me having basic equal rights. Indeed, it was only in the 2012 election that I had, for the first time in my life, the opportunity to vote for someone who openly supported my right to get married. It took us over 40 years of fighting to get marriage equality. It required us to hold our noses and vote for Democrats time and time again, even as they openly said they opposed our right to get married, even though they--at times, and even Obama himself---openly courted the votes our most hated enemies. We kept our eye on the prize despite the fact we kept losing, over and over and over and over again. We knew that over time that we would win, and in the end we did.

Now, today, there was literally no one in the Democratic Primary who did not support marriage equality. Both candidates fight over who has been more pro-queer and for how long.

I learned from this experience that change is hard and difficult. In order to be successful, we have to be willing to keep fighting even in the face of defeat, and perhaps just as importantly we have to keep our eyes on the long term objectives that we seek to accomplish.

I think it is irrational to believe that simply electing Bernie Sanders is going to be enough. We need to control the Congress, and we need to control the state governments. It has always been about a struggle for power. Sanders and his supporters talk a lot about revolutions, but at least among his supporters I don't see or hear plans of waging a revolution. I see an investment in a single man and a campaign. Not a plan to actually shift the country to the left, a plan to seize political power, and even more importantly--seize control of the Democratic Party.

As a radical leftist, I'm happy to join the revolution when it comes. However, Bernie Sanders is not a leader of a revolution. This much is clear. There is no such thing as a nice revolutionary. There is a reason they tend to be violent, bloody, and rip social institutions apart. I'm willing to rip the Democratic Party to shreds, if it means that we can shift the country radically to the left. Bernie Sanders is not even willing to go after DWS, who is all but telegraphing how the party establishment plans to give the nomination to Hillary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meldread (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:51 PM

16. If you have ever listened to Bernie speak you would realize he knows he can't do it alone

His tactic is for a political revolution, that does not mean "bloody" hence the word political.

Such a revolution is possible, and counts on a long term solution as well as a shorter term one of electing better representatives and not disbanding the coalition he is building once in office, but rather asking them to continue by constantly putting pressure on all the bought politicians that stand in the way of everything but moving money upwards.

All your points have been covered more than once, join the revolution and help us fight. No one expects to win every battle, but nothing will be won via acquiescence and nihilistic quietism.

It is strange to me that you do not see among his supporters any plans of waging a revolution, even before this one has started his supporters are already working on replacing Debbie Wassermann Schultz. Also I hear a great deal of talk that the time for revolution is now and those saying that have plans to continue long beyond the Presidential race, it is a matter of not being timid. Embrace the part of yourself that will commit to the revolution at hand rather than waiting for anyther because you doubt the reality of the one before your eyes.

You yourself said, " As a radical leftist, I'm happy to join the revolution when it comes." well it is here!! so live up to your words!

If your error is that you expect only blood would prove a revolution then you lack the understanding that a bloodless revolution is the only one that could work, one involving blood would only lead to the suspension of all our civil liberties, one that would likely end up permanent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:56 PM

17. Remove the last word from your subject and you will have it right. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:17 PM

34. I proudly stand with Steven Leser v2.0.08, that dude was a keen judge of character

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:37 PM

41. I remember him, he helped me learn just how corrupt and untrustworthy a certain Clinton was

I wonder what happened to that guy?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Meldread (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:06 PM

73. "I'm willing to rip the Democratic Party to shreds" -

Last edited Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:48 PM - Edit history (1)

With all due respect that is really difficult to believe. Your gauge as to how Bernie is doing as a revolutionary is whether he is "willing to go after DWS"? WTF do you think is going on here? He is traveling across this country, going from stadium to stadium, filling them with people ready to help him steer this party left. You know what happens when he becomes president? Amongst many other things he makes it clear who he would like to run the DNC. And I can promise you it won't be DWS.

You start by saying "change is hard and difficult ... keep fighting ... long term objectives" - and then jump at the end to assuring us that you are a "radical leftist ... happy to join the revolution when it comes"

So, to sum up, you want us all to accept this incremental nonsense, but then be ready to jump into the revolution if it happens to appear out of thin air?

Comrade it doesn't work that way. We ARE the revolution or it doesn't happen. I'm with Bernie and as far as I'm concerned it IS Bernie or Bust. I'm ready to burn it all down. When you figure out which side you're on you let us know. Until then maybe just stay out of the way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TBF (Reply #73)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:13 PM

74. Woohoo....

That's what I'm talking about! Right there!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:37 PM

14. People who don't want those young people upset with the Democratic Party, that who

Picture this: Here is a politician all warm and sincere who promises he will implement every progressive program known to man. People who have on the political battlefield their entire lives accuse him of promising what he knows he can not deliver, buthe says, "Oh no, we will lead a revolution." "What revolution? answer the old hands, "At minimum the Republicans in the House will block every one of your proposals!" "No, when you nominate me, its going to happen. Trust me!"

Kids tend to be idealists and therefore can be quite gullible. So are some of their idealist elders are as well so they all believe that somehow Bernie can make it happen.

By some miracle, Bernie gets elected President. The Republicans again take the House both now and two year's hence because most can only lose their gerrymandered seats to someone even more conservative. Four years later Bernie has accomplished nothing because House Republicans hate him and his program even worse than they hated Obama.

Of course it isn't Bernie's fault, but oh wait, yes it is. He lied to his supporters, and probably himself. He promised to do what knew he could not. Voters don't treat politicians who lie to them well the second time around.

But don't worry, Bernie will not win the nomination and definitely will not win the general election. Republican Swift Boaters will blow his boat out of the water and then run over his life raft. Heaven knows he has already handed them plenty of ammunition for their guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:48 PM

15. Be prepared to be attacked for bringing up real world obstacles and likely results

 

A realistic discussion of the obstacles to what a candidate for President is trying to do is a bad thing.

We're bad for not being willing to pretend that obstacles don't exist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stevenleser (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:02 PM

19. Old Chinese saying....

He who knows not and know not that he know not, he is a fool shun him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CajunBlazer (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:04 PM

20. You ignore the fact that Sanders has the better chance to win the GE via young voters

and the largest party of all, the unaffiliated (oh yes and even the polls bear this out). As far as Swift-boating goes, that is already happening only this time Brock is being paid to do it. If the swift-boating is not successful with the full weight of a superPac funded by all the dark money imaginable and with a slmemaster like David Brock, it won't work for them either.

Besides, have you seen Hillary's disapproval ratings lately? Which will only get worse since she started with the Rovian tactics.
I doubt she is even remotely electable in a GE.

Since you will never change your mind regarding Hillary, I doubt we could ever do anything other than agree to disagree.

I still feel that the younger generation has the right to fight for a better future, you will never dissuade me of that opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:56 PM

18. "Scale back" no. Just put on hold.

The SCOTUS appointment question has taken front and center. Democrats can't take the risk of the next three justices become Scalia clones.

There will be no replacement of Scalia during Obama's presidency.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:09 PM

21. Well, then we better resolve our corporate vs progressive differences and make sure Sanders wins

Because the polls show that he is more electable in the GE. Another factor is that I don't think it is possible that a politician with unfavorable ratings approaching 60% could ever hope to win the presidency.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:45 PM

23. Scalia's death changes everything.

It's wake up and smell the coffee time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:06 PM

25. I have been awake the whole time, I am sure Obama will nominate a proper justice.

You should have more faith in his judgement

It is impossible to stall the process for a year, and even the Republicans know it, but if this has awakened some who have not been paying attention. We need to use that awakening to ensure the candidate with the best chance of winning the GE gets the nominations in spite of the David Brock channeling Rove and the new corporate money (thanks to DWS overriding Obama) put in play to help the one that does the least well in head to heads with Republicans.

Hillary does the worst with young voters and those that are less affluent (a very small percentage of the electorate make over $200,000 a year). She also has an unfavorability rating overall 56% so high, she would almost surely be the one to lose the GE.

Independents don't like Hillary, they see her as dishonest by a wide margin and her unfavorability ratings among them are over 60%. They are also a much larger voting block than Democrats so this is an important consideration.

On the other hand unfortunately, although not as large a voting block as Independents the Republicans would have a record turn out because their loathing for her is legendary.

I fully expect Obama to replace Scalia with a better judge, but we need a Democrat in the WH because some of those other judges are getting rather old.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:34 PM

38. Making decisions based upon fear rarely leads to favorable results.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:38 PM

22. Yeah? We knew we'd be replacing justices. In what way is anything changed beyond granting

the ability for Hillary to parlay calls for unity into a revived campaign?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 07:50 PM

24. Urgency. Scalia's death is a wake up call. There will be

a large uptick in the number of discussions of SCOTUS appointments and their implications.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #24)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:35 PM

40. We have a sitting president who is more than capable of making a sound choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frylock (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:39 PM

42. No SCOTUS appointment. I don't care how capable he is.

The GOP will block anyone and everyone. Take that to the bank.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:43 PM

44. Are you saying that Obama can't appoint a new SCJ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frylock (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:15 PM

45. No lifetime justices will get a senate vote during the remainder

of his term. Obama may be able to slide in an interim Justice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:20 PM

46. I find your lack of faith... disturbing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frylock (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 05:43 PM

47. "There was no harm to humans in the making of this reply"

"disturbing" only a temporary state I hope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oasis (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:46 PM

76. Put on hold for another 40 years.

How about no.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:10 PM

26. Dream crushers in need of cannon fodder.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:28 PM

28. Very succinct yet very true. /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:10 PM

31. kicking /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:12 PM

32. Dreams alone are not enough

Action has to be taken to make them true. That action is limited to what is legal. This is dumb. Where things depend on other people too, dreaming does not apply. You have to convince them, not just dream of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #32)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:31 PM

37. This is a political revolution and he is already convincing millions, perhaps you have

not been paying any attention, but Sanders tells us this during every speech, that it it depends on all of us getting involved, Hillary is the one that only saying "I" when talking about solving our current major problems, you did not just "discover on your own" that it will depend on other people too", in fact it is the central theme of his campaign.

Relying on passing Republican bills by being the only one that can work with them in her eyes is dumb, compromising away the future using that approach to "get things done" is dumb, that is unless you want to keep the big money machine happy, in which case I applaud Hillary's "no we can't" brilliance and approach.

I thought you were one of my only ten on ignore because all you do is shill and argue nonsense when not trying to bait people into hides folks, well situation corrected as soon as I can get to those controls, but thanks for kicking this thread, the future of the next generation is my most important topic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:41 PM

43. It's not going to convince other people just to have Bernie say that

Those people have to be convinced. They won't be just because Bernie said it. And his supporters do nothing to convince others - in fact they mostly seem to insult them.

Ignoring people who challenge your statements does not do a thing to make those challenges not exist. Dreams are not realized just by dreaming - action has to be taken towards them. Obstacles dealt with, not just ignored or complained about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:51 PM

50. My poor deaf brother or sister/ they already are convinced

Peace to you in your Somnolence. I hope the changes coming do not awaken you from your blissful sleep filled with your beautiful status quo dreams.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:19 PM

63. it's dreams PLUS a solid set of concrete plans for implementing them; Bernie has provided LOTS of de

details on each plank in his program

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:27 PM

35. K&R I'm with you 100%

The revolution of the 60s accomplished a lot in terms of human and civil rights; but, left a lot unfinished. Some of the gains were rolled back, with the Reagan / Clinton counterrevolution. It's time to start making gains again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LongTomH (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:39 PM

48. Thanks Tom, it is well past time to start making gains again, Only one candidate is offering to help

start that fire again and as luck would have it, he is a true believer and the rarest of animals (an honest politician).
The people are angry and hungry enough and he is honest enough that people believe in him and his sincerity. He can be the spark and our leader at the top, but as you remember from back then it will take other leaders everywhere fanning the flames of truth until the truth itself carries us to some more victories like were won back in the day.

There will have to be more mass gatherings and protests (especially outside the doors of the purchased politicians standing n the way of fairness for the majority. There wil have to be those among us willing to run for offices large amd small and the rest of us supporting them all.

It must not end on election day as it did with Obama (I remember seeing that incredible army gathered together during his initial inauguration). He had assemble the beginnings of our army but then dismissed them to disperse in the wind.

This time, they will disperse in groups with tasks in hand, some he will call on us to perform, others our other self chosen leaders will call us into action on. It will be bloodless (at least on our part or it will be doomed) but it will be relentless and stubborn and always true to unchanging principles because it will be mirrored on the stubbornness, the honesty, and the courage of an honorable older politician from Vermont that was not afraid, ever, to stand up vocally "or sit in stubbornly" for what he was convinced was right, his conviction is easy to emulate because it is not based on an ever changing set of windsock faux principles but rather on unchanging and axiomatic truths.

The next generation deserves their fight, and it is our duty to help them get it started because we have seen how it works and that it does work in the past. We will not be there when many of their battles are won, we are not as long for this world, but by Goddess we can help them get their own ball rolling!

I am glad you are with us 100%, we will all be needed!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LongTomH (Reply #35)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 07:45 PM

49. .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:30 PM

36. Someone who is comfortable or even well off with the status quo of course

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #36)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 02:35 PM

39. Perhaps even someone getting even further enriched every day by the status as well /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:00 PM

51. Do you have a link to where she asked young people to scale back?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:05 PM

54. She implies it every time she speaks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #54)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:31 PM

56. Why, because she doesn't promise folks a $22,000 raise, no inflation, "free Healthcare, free

tuition to almost any college, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:47 PM

58. No because she is doing what the title of my op SAYS. Look, I know you favor the right side of the

tent whereas I am firmly camped out on the older and original left side of our parties tent, but must you post silly one liners on a constant basis for no other purpose than to get the last word in?

Don't be surprised, I have been posting her for 11 years so yeah, I know you and your style, but I have little patience with nonsense and one liners that continue long after reasonable (or even many of your unreasonable) questions have been answered. so lets cut your usual shtick short today and agree to disagree, I stand by everything I have written in this OP and it's threads.

Since you appear to be close minded and determined to do anything other than play the gnat, don't go away mad brother, just go away. There are echo chambers that you will love on this site if you don't already frequent them (I don't bother people there so I really don't know) you will be far less frustrated there and find total agreement on just about everything.

Take the hint, or take the hide, but thanks for the kick either way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #58)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:07 PM

60. So you have no link to what you said. Yeah, I have my mind made up. Like you don't.

I'll post when I feel like it. Better to be a gnat than a pissant. Go to the Sanders Group if you want to post crud uncontested.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:17 PM

62. Well at least you got the last word in , oh shit, I fucked that up for you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:04 PM

53. Is this a trick question?

 

...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SoLeftIAmRight (Reply #53)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:07 PM

55. No rather a rhetorical one based on a DUer's observation and commentary on the following article

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:35 PM

57. Someone raking in hundreds of millions of dollars from the current power structure?

 

Just a guess...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AzDar (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:50 PM

59. Someone just won a stuffed animal at the carnival!

But really, I hope you read more than just the title.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 02:09 AM

66. They want our children to just give up and accept that they are the first generation not expected

to do better than their parents. No going to happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:16 AM

67. knr and



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to slipslidingaway (Reply #67)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:24 AM

68. Thank you!

Goo to see you again I'll see your and raise you a

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #68)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:42 AM

69. The millennials are involved and will make a strong showing IF they are inspired ...

if not we'll wind up in the minority.

Hope all is well in your world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to slipslidingaway (Reply #69)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 04:51 AM

70. Could be better, serious health problems - deep, make that really deep in poverty.

But I have the most adorable little Jack Russel Terrier that is an unending source of both perpetual motion and snuggle bunny cuteness when I need to lay down (she always joins me then, even when she would prefer to be playing in the backyard).

She is a Rescue that was really in need of rescue that they said was approx. 1 year old when I adopted her, going on past a year and 8 months old now

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Reply #70)

Mon Feb 15, 2016, 05:13 AM

71. She is adorable and I hope an inspiration to get you moving ...

unfortunately, what was once considered the middle class in the US is now shrinking and we are learning to adjust. We are fortunate to have family that can pitch in, but we do not want to rely on them all the time. My sister, who lives in the UK, and pays such high taxes! is able to contribute a significant amount to help for medical bills. I think most Europeans think we are crazy with all with pay for medical bills, education and little time off!

They have had a few Munsterlander's and we have gone the less expensive route with having a few cats

Naps are good, but just need a companion to get you up and going!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 01:40 PM

75. Thank you so much for this OP

And all of your feisty and informed comments in this thread. Well done!

I'm one of the millions who stand with you, poverty, bad health and all! We will never give up and give in and neither will our children. Anyone who expects us to all shut up and get in line is in for a huge disappointment.

Keep fighting the good fight...this is a marathon and the enemy will not hesitate to use everything at their disposal.

Kick!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dragonfli (Original post)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 07:01 PM

77. K&R! I apologize for missing this excellent post.

Well done, Dragonfli!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #77)

Wed Feb 24, 2016, 07:04 PM

78. Thank You! Your Opinion means a great deal to me and well, you are just so, enthusiastic!!! /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread