Here is a list of what I, a Bernie supporter, expect to get accomplished by President Sanders

[rufus dog]

Last edited Sat Feb 20, 2016, 02:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Nothing

If he gets one of his proposals through congress it will be a bonus, each one after, a bigger bonus.

It is not about getting anything passed, it is changing the narrative and the course. I don't expect him to be able to single handily work miracles. IMO, President Obama was the best President in my life, I am over 50. Obama changed the course slightly, now is time for a sharp left turn. The youth vote is all lined up, it is a matter of taking advantage of the opportunity at hand. Reagan didn't have overwhelming legislative accomplishments, but he changed the course, was transformational. Bush went a bit further but nothing overwhelming again. Then eight years of Clinton, nothing major. Then W. was escorted in and all Hell broke lose.

It is a long game, the goal is to set it up for a Preident Warren or someone similar.

So, Hillary fans, don't try to convince me using the argument that he won't be able to get anything done.

1. That is not the goal for a lot of us, including many of us a tad older.
2. We lived through what Bill got done, and being polite, it wasn't that damn impressive.

Finally, part of one of my favorite speeches, just before I was born.

"Why does Rice play Texas?"

Google it, listen/read the speech. The County is so far off track that something like this would never be considered today, we need to try to get back on that path. We have youth numbers that exceed those during the Reagan Revolution. They can't be wasted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I do not expect any dem to achieve squat as long as the House is in the hands of that other radical

party.

So what are people going to do to retake the house and senate, preferably with supermajorities?

[LeFleur1]

8. Yes.

I'm wondering if the young people will stay home again and allow the do nothing Republicans to remain majorities.
We can get nothing done that we want done until Democrats take the house and senate back. I don't want more TALK about what is going to be done. I want people in the House and Senate who will DO what is best for the country, and a President who knows how to get it done and will not just talk about getting it done.

[Old Codger]

2. Things can get started

He can start a lot, he can use the bully pulpit to push and push, he can help bring about the first changes needed in pulling good Dem pols along into the house and senate, until that happens no Dem Pres. will get diddly squat done. All I ask is that he doesn't give up.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

3. changing the narrative - Bingo

...

[Hydra]

4. He can actually do a lot without Congress

Executive orders are potent when used correctly. But the real power? The Attorney General's office.

Wall Street? You have phone calls on lines 1, 2, 4, 6 and 7.

[pablo_marmol]

5. I've donated much more to Bernie's campaign than I "should" have.

That being said, I'm finding some of his "promises" very disappointing - as they are not only unrealistic, but play right into GOP narratives.

I will continue to support Bernie.........just not as enthusiastic as I've been.

[dreamnightwind]

7. I am more impressed with Sanders every day

What disappointing promises?

[pablo_marmol]

14. Unrealistic over-promising w/regard to mass incarceration:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251997655

And talk of free college. Reduction in student debt load isn't going to happen overnight -- his rhetoric just plays to the "tax and spend liberal" talking point the GOP loves to push. (As in the transfer of wealth from hard-working red-blooded 'mericans to moochers.......and we all know who the "moochers" are, right?)

Edited to add: Even some Democrats are wary about grand promises based on President Obama's broken promises. Many Hispanics, for example, aren't exactly thrilled about inaction on immigration reform. Just one example.

[dreamnightwind]

25. You don't sound like a Bernie supporter to me

I couldn't care less about the Republican's tax and spend attacks. Let them. We either stand for things or we don't.

His college plan is taking us back to how it was not so long ago, a great idea and wonderful that he will fight for it.

The incarceration promise was an eye-opener, very ambituous. I don't know if he can reach those numbers. I sure woudn't trust the source you linked.

For one thing, he can decriminalize pot, which would have major impacts not only in the fedderal prisons but would riipple throughout the state prisons.

I also saw a report suggesting that he could work with Democratic governors to get their incarceration policies changed. and that there are so many people in state prisons in California and New York alone that getting just those two states to comply would go much of the way towards meeting his goals.

Comparing Obama's broken promises to Bernie is not right. Obama ran to Hillary's left, but it was mostly a campaign ploy, he saw a political opening and took it. Along the way he also took huge amounts of corporate money. As soon as he was elected he rewarded his large donors and named a progressve hater Rahm Emmanuel to be his chief of staff, who called disappointed leftists looking for their hope and change "f'n retards".

There is simply no comarison there to the Bernie campaign. Bernie is not positioning himself to the left of Hillary for political gain, he is reluctantly running fro POTUS to advance the issues he has a lifetime record of working for, and he correctly assessed that if he didn't run, nobody would give voice to those issues. He is not taking corporate money. He will be the same man when he assumes office.

[6chars]

28. if you want only Bernie supporters, stay in the Bernie group

[dreamnightwind]

29. He/she claimed to be a Bernie supporter

then repeated talking points I have not heard from Bernie supporters. He may or may not be, I don't really know. There have been several on DU who feigned support of Bernie as a cover for attacks on his record, odd that, anyway that is the context of my post.

[pablo_marmol]

38. I walk lock-step with NOBODY. Get used to it.

In my book, real patriotism is defined by a willingness to call out your team when your team is f*cking up. Your mileage obviously varies.

I put my money where my mouth is.

Edited to add: Definition of "talking point" as you use it: Point of view that I disagree with.

[dreamnightwind]

43. That's fine

Honest constructive criticism is fine.

Hiding behind "I'm a Bernie supporter" when you're not, to lob attacks at him, is not ok. If that isn't you, apologies, I actually do not know if that's your game or not.

As I said earlier, I've seen that tactic used by actual Clinton supporters far too often and when I see it I will call them on iit.

[pablo_marmol]

37. #1 - I really couldn't care less what I sound like to you. Either with us, or agin us?! Seriously?!

I couldn't care less about the Republican's tax and spend attacks. Let them. We either stand for things or we don't.

I believe in fighting for progressives values as well. The difference between you and I, it seems, is that I believe in fighting smart. Over-promising isn't smart. That being said -- I really believe that Bernie would work to improve our incarceration rate. One of many reasons I have donated $750 to his campaign. (Money that should be heading into a retirement account!!!)

Comparing Obama's broken promises to Bernie is not right.

Life isn't fair. We have to deal with the political realities on the ground right now. Obama's rhetoric vs. his achievements have given voters plenty of legitimate reason to be wary of big promises.

Bernie is not positioning himself to the left of Hillary for political gain, he is reluctantly running fro POTUS to advance the issues he has a lifetime record of working for, and he correctly assessed that if he didn't run, nobody would give voice to those issues.

Don't know that I remotely suggested otherwise.

He is not taking corporate money. He will be the same man when he assumes office.

Don't know that I remotely suggested otherwise.

[Yavin4]

42. Failure is fatal in American politics

If you promise something and don't deliver it, then the narrative changes to "see, Progressivism is a failure", no matter Republican obstruction.

[pablo_marmol]

55. Thank you.

I'm in it to win it.

[dreamnightwind]

45. Have you aso given to the Clinton campaign, or just to Bernie?

I don't mind people bringing up things about Bernie that aren't perfect.

I disagree with some of the issues you raise, such as I think it's great to pay a few hundred in taxes to save a few thousand in private insurance and expensive tuition, and that Democrats have to be ready to support and defend government spending, it's part of the RW ideology to say government bad, we need to call them on that ad argue from Democratic turf which is to support some big government programs when private industry is ripping people off. U.S.P.S. being allowed to run simple community banking is another example of a Berie idea that gets it right in this regard.

[pablo_marmol]

53. Just to Bernie.

Thanks for your honest concern.

[dreamnightwind]

57. OK, apologies

[pablo_marmol]

54. "I disagree with some of the issues you raise...........

........such as I think it's great to pay a few hundred in taxes to save a few thousand in private insurance and expensive tuition...."

And I said I disagree with this exactly where?

Never mind.........I'm done here.

[pablo_marmol]

56. Amending a sentence:

Either with us, or agin us?! Seriously?!

This should have read:

"Either with us 100%, or agin us?! Seriously?!

[PatrickforO]

52. Let's talk about 'tax and spend' for a minute, shall we?

George Bush gave the uber-wealthy dramatic tax cuts and then proceeded to fund two wars in the red.

As his last act, Bush gave Wall Street bankers $750 billion of our tax money and then the Wall Street execs gave each other multi-million dollar bonuses.

Then Obama did what he did. But corporations and billionaires still aren't paying their fair share of taxes, Americans are still watching their wages stagnate, and we're still paying out the nose for healthcare - more than any other industrialized country. Now Obama is touting TPP, which Clinton is FOR, and made calls lobbying Senators FOR.

So...tax and spend? Right now, I pay lots of taxes. And my taxes go for bullshit that I don't support, like the forever war. I see my kids, three of whom have 'forever' student loan balances and wonder what kind of future they will have.

You know what? It costs money to run a government, and most thinking people are willing to pay. But what do we get?

If this is a government OF, BY AND FOR THE PEOPLE, then why don't we just for ONCE use those tax revenues to benefit us instead of Wall Street.

[redstateblues]

6. Clinton's 8 years were awful. 8 years of peace and prosperity

Hopefully we won't have that again.

[Fronkonsteen]

9. If Hillary wins the primary...

you'll get what you're hoping for. Those of us who truly want peace and prosperity for everyone are voting for Sanders.

[stevenleser]

11. Yep. Don't want anything like that again.

[rufus dog]

12. I was waiting for this one.

It was a good run, that I will give you.

A tech boom partially (HEAVILY) built on govt funded breakthroughs. A once in a Century event!

Untold wealth was created, some scam bullshit, but truly some great strides forward in technology.

A couple of days ago a Bernie supporter posted about Hillary sitting on the board of Walmart. When I defended another DUer who stated it wasn't a huge issue it got a bit testy, I said it wasn't even a top twenty five Clinton issue for me. In my top five, the piss poor job of handling the boom. Manufacturing jobs outsourced, software IT jobs outsourced, so what could have been decades of solid growth for the Country was reduced to years. All based upon greed and a course set by Reagan that the Government is the problem.

[uponit7771]

15. Obama years were abismal too... Out if 10000 good things he did 100 bad things that made everything.

....horrible

[rufus dog]

19. As stated in my OP, I think Obama is a great President

Would strongly argue that he accomplished a great deal in the face of unprecedented obstruction.

I would not make the same argument for Big Dog.

[azmom]

44. We also got mass incarceration, and the most

Punitive immigration laws in history. Clinton - No thanks.

[azmom]

46. And there's so much more.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/15-ways-bill-clintons-white-house-failed-america-and-world

[stevenleser]

10. I respect your embrace of reality. That beats the responses of many other Sanders supporters

who have responded to me with all kinds of fantasy responses about Republicans being made to vote for Single payer or some version of saying I was too cynical.

If we can only get all Sanders supporters to recognize that Bernie would get nothing remotely revolutionary accomplished, I think we will be well on our way to a rational debate about who should be President. I like Hillary's odds in that scenario.

I disagree with the idea that electing Bernie would in any way change the narrative. Folks like FDR and LBJ, who got much more accomplished from a liberal perspective than Sanders would get done, didn't change the narrative much in terms of Presidential campaigns.

[rufus dog]

13. Not going to go down the negative route on Clinton

But strongly disagree on FDR, as for Johnson, I think you just made my argument.

Why does Rice play Texas? The answer is right there.

[stevenleser]

18. Why would you? This is a discussion about Sanders. nt

[rufus dog]

20. Why does Rice play Texas?

Your comment about rational discussion insinuates Bernie supporters are irrational. One of the points I am trying to get across is that many of his supporters are extremely rational. Thus given the choice of Hillary or Bernie, the choice is Bernie.

I lived through Bill, thus have a damn good idea what will be accomplished IF Hillary can hold the Blue Wall and pick off a couple of swing states. Based on the current state of her firewall, along with her meltdown in 2008, I have serious concerns.

Again, this isn't just about this election, it is about long term wins. We have two choices, both quite a bit older than me. The young vote has broken Huuuge for Bernie. Either choice is going to have to battle the establishment Repubs, and in a switch, likely a young Republican named Rubio.

A fight is eminent, I'm ready to brawl and am going into battle with the youth. My other option seems to be to go into battle with the possibility of taking a shiv in the back.

For what it is worth, I supported Obama early in the 2008 cycle, way before he even announced. For this cycle I just broke for Sanders last month. I finally figured it was going to be a brawl either way so do I want to fight for the status quo or do I want to fight for change? Made my decision easy, dare I say rational.

Really friggen hard to get motivated to fight for the status quo, get all damned bloodied and bruised for nothing.

[stevenleser]

24. Nope, not rational and I will explain it very simply.

Backing a candidate because you hope he can effect a revolution when the hard numbers in the legislature make it 100% crystal clear that he can't is not rational.

And no, this isn't a football game. You don't fumble in not taking up bills in committee. You don't throw interceptions in voting party line to obstruct someone. Your quarterback doesnt get hurt in practice before the game or suddenly forget how to find his receivers under pressure from the big game.

It's a simple we wont take up those bills and you can't make us. End of story.

[Ron Green]

35. Bernie Sanders can't effect a revolution.

He can only reflect a revolution, and that's exactly what must happen if America and the world are to slip the bonds of the bought system Hillary Clinton represents. Unfortunately lots of voters Bernie will need really do imagine free stuff, and they'll be disappointed if they're unable to take the next step of active democracy and community building.

Those of us who think about these things, but are not bought by the system, invite you to join us. Run for local office, or do some planning and zoning work. It starts with you.

[yodermon]

16. The repukes are going to stonewall and stymie Hillary TOO. JUST Like they are doing Obama.

I'd rather have someone in the White House standing FIRM on liberal values while being stonewalled, instead of "compromising" and then having that compromised position be labeled "far left socialism". That's how the Overton window has been shifting to the right for so many years, and the Clintons have been some of the biggest enablers.

[stevenleser]

17. Correct, but Hillary's argument isn't that her election will bring revolution.

Sanders is selling something he can't deliver.

[rufus dog]

22. I am really trying to figure out her argument for being President

When I see her focusing on Bernie not being a democrat in attempt to sway undecideds it has unintended consequence. That it it makes people undecided if they will support her in the GE.

[stevenleser]

23. I think being the best qualified is always a terrific argument for any job.

I know folks are looking for some impressive seeming sloganeering like a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage, and maybe that is what wins elections, but it counts for a lot with me.

In 2008, since everyone seems to want to bring up 2008 with me, I didn't see a lot of daylight between Clinton and Obama in resume and experience. I definitely see a difference this time around.

[rufus dog]

21. Can I ask a question?

Approximately how old are you?

I think some of the Clinton supporters will be surprised at how many demos are leaning towards Bernie.

[TCJ70]

30. I dare you...

...to find where a Sanders supporter said Republicans will vote for Single payer.

[stevenleser]

31. They've given the political weasel version of that response several times.

When I ask why they think Sanders can get things like Single Payer passed, they say that I am too cynical and I am doubting the power of the people. All weasel ways of saying, because of Sanders, people will somehow force the Republicans to pass it.

Even rufus dog here in this thread is making allusions to football games which I can only guess is his way of saying, you can't assume you will lose before you try. Except there is none of the uncertainty that a football game brings in terms of the Republicans simply not bringing items up for vote.

[TCJ70]

32. I think you're misinterpreting...

...why couldn't power of the people equal voting to change the make up of congress. That's the purpose of the revolution, after all.

[stevenleser]

33. Now we're getting somewhere. We can't because of redistricting. The way the districts are drawn

there are too many Republican representatives safely ensconced in overwhelmingly Republican districts.

The House of Representatives will be Republican until January of 2023. And longer if things don't all go our way between now and then and that is a big if.

[rufus dog]

48. For the love of god

How friggen hard is to google why does Rice play Texas?

It is part of a JFK speech, given at Rice, challenging the Country to get to the moon in ten years.

He didn't get a lot of legislation passed, but LBJ did. Do you really think LBJ would have pushed for changes without JFK?

Edit: Post in response to stevenlesser

[fun n serious]

26. Well, at least your expectations are right on point. nt

[lovemydog]

27. Because it is hard.

Great post rufus dog.

"But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- JFK

See more at: http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/celebrating-the-50th-anniversary-of-jfks-moon-speech/#sthash.5JhVMnnb.dpuf

[rufus dog]

49. Thank you - everyone should listen to the speech

That sums up our position, we can fight hard for incremental change, or more realistically, not rolling back too much from the Obama years, or we can fight hard for change.

I believe the fight will require the same effort either way, so why settle for the former.

[workinclasszero]

34. You expect nothing out of a president Bernie? Well at least you wouldn't be disappointed LOL

But I bet you are a tiny minority in the bernie supporter universe.

All I've heard is the reason we don't have free health care, 15 dollar an hour minimum wages, free college etc is because the democratic party is a slave to wall street blah blah blah and president Bernie is gonna break those chains and free us all!

I think his naive millennium backers assume Bernie will have all of his fantasy platform in place in the first 4 year term.

I would follow the same precedent set by Bernie himself and call for him to be primaried if he doesn't deliver as he did against President Obama.

You made the tiger Bernie but can you ride it??

[geek tragedy]

36. we don't have the luxury of not getting anything done.

if he gets elected as part of a 'revolution' and nothing changes in terms of policy, there will be a really bad backlash--and rightly so.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. "Why does Rice play Texas?" Yes, this exactly.

As you point out, some things are worth... if not doing, at least attempting, because they are hard.

We are not going to change the system if we settle for the crumbs the existing system allows to fall to the floor.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

40. I used your " changing the narrative" many thanks - take a look

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511282409

it was a hit!

[rufus dog]

50. Great post

Very well done. My intent, and I believe yours, was not to change Hillary supporters vote, rather to provide them with an understanding of why we support Bernie. Hopefully some of them get it.

[Armstead]

41. I disagree with "Nothing" but i agree with most of what you said

Reagan led a Revolution to the right with a bold message that set the tone for the next decades.

It's time for the counter revolution.

[azmom]

47. Just getting someone like Bernie in the

White House will be itself revolutionary. A president not beholden to big money.

[orpupilofnature57]

51. So We can start to heal, now that we know what is wrong with us, A Beginning not a

continuation .