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Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:47 PM

"Five to One, Baby ...."

I am 100% pleased with Bernie Sanders’s showing today in Nevada. Obviously, I would have been happier if he had won the contest by a few percentage points. And I’d get out of this chair, and dance an Irish jig if he had won by more than 10%. But he did not. So, on one hand, I congratulate the Clinton supporters; on the other hand, in the context of a political insurgency, I know that we have done much better today than necessary, in terms of continuing this struggle.

An insurgency is, of course, a fight against the an established form of government. While throughout my entire adult life, as a registered member of the Democratic Party, I have voted for the Democratic candidate in literally every presidential election. Yet, in these same years, I have witnessed our party’s leadership move so far to the right, that many Democratic politicians today that they would have been accurately viewed as conservative republicans in the past.

I believe that the insurgency, which is represented by Bernie Sanders today, is the healthy response to the class warfare that the 1% has systematically engaged in over the past fifty years. In this sense, I am reminded of Minister Malcolm X’s saying that the difference between some Democrats and republicans is the difference between a fox and a wolf. The fox smiles to your face, but attacks you from behind; while the wolf always makes it clear that he is your enemy.

I appreciate that many good people on this forum are happy that Hillary Clinton won today’s contest. I know that they are sincere in their belief that Hillary is the better candidate. That they support her does not surprise, nor bother me. We look at pretty much the same facts and circumstances, and come to different conclusions. I like and respect them as much as I did before the 2016 primaries began, last year.

I understand why they assume that today’s results would be discouraging for Bernie’s supporters. Indeed, these results would signify “defeat” for an establishment candidate. But that is a very different metric, than the one used to measure victory for an insurgency. And since by definition, an insurgency always begins as a minority effort, relatively few people understand the on-going goal of the insurgents’ efforts.

As a non-violent, pro-constitutional democracy insurgents, we do not need to “win” every time we engage the opposition. Rather, state-by-state, we are changing the public’s perception of the contest . It’s not the same as what’s happening in the republican primary, for their “rebel” is a billionaire who requires that his followers NOT think. Our insurgency is rooted in people thinking for themselves.

A clear sign of our success is found when the opposition increases its attacks. In every instance, we should be using each attack as an opportunity to engage in a conversation, both with our opposition, and with the greater public. In order to achieve positive results, we need to remain positive. For we are engaged in a historical struggle, part of a long tradition in this country.

It’s related to the great insurgent movements including Gandhi’s in India, and King’s in the USA. It is in the tradition that the democratically-inspired among the Founding Father’s encouraged. And it ties in with Jim Morrison singing, “Five to one, Baby, one in five.”

Peace,
H2O Man

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Reply "Five to One, Baby ...." (Original post)
H2O Man Feb 2016 OP
retrowire Feb 2016 #1
H2O Man Feb 2016 #3
CorporatistNation Feb 2016 #16
retrowire Feb 2016 #18
Dustlawyer Feb 2016 #83
BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2016 #88
CorporatistNation Feb 2016 #32
dchill Feb 2016 #2
H2O Man Feb 2016 #4
dchill Feb 2016 #7
H2O Man Feb 2016 #10
dchill Feb 2016 #14
H2O Man Feb 2016 #20
kentuck Feb 2016 #196
antigop Feb 2016 #19
H2O Man Feb 2016 #22
antigop Feb 2016 #25
slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #43
H2O Man Feb 2016 #46
slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #73
GreenEyedLefty Feb 2016 #155
H2O Man Feb 2016 #164
morningfog Feb 2016 #5
H2O Man Feb 2016 #11
Samantha Feb 2016 #6
H2O Man Feb 2016 #13
malthaussen Feb 2016 #105
ChiciB1 Feb 2016 #8
H2O Man Feb 2016 #17
ChiciB1 Feb 2016 #28
FourScore Feb 2016 #9
H2O Man Feb 2016 #33
Waiting For Everyman Feb 2016 #12
H2O Man Feb 2016 #34
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #15
H2O Man Feb 2016 #26
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #31
H2O Man Feb 2016 #36
sorechasm Feb 2016 #160
H2O Man Feb 2016 #165
silvershadow Feb 2016 #21
H2O Man Feb 2016 #40
silvershadow Feb 2016 #71
H2O Man Feb 2016 #115
zentrum Feb 2016 #23
H2O Man Feb 2016 #41
zentrum Feb 2016 #55
H2O Man Feb 2016 #58
Mbrow Feb 2016 #97
Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #24
H2O Man Feb 2016 #48
Wellstone ruled Feb 2016 #27
H2O Man Feb 2016 #50
Wellstone ruled Feb 2016 #75
malthaussen Feb 2016 #107
Wellstone ruled Feb 2016 #153
lmbradford Feb 2016 #198
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #29
H2O Man Feb 2016 #53
Lucky Luciano Feb 2016 #30
H2O Man Feb 2016 #54
mountain grammy Feb 2016 #35
H2O Man Feb 2016 #57
mountain grammy Feb 2016 #82
tommcc99 Feb 2016 #37
H2O Man Feb 2016 #62
tommcc99 Feb 2016 #203
appalachiablue Feb 2016 #69
PoliticAverse Feb 2016 #38
H2O Man Feb 2016 #44
lasttrip Feb 2016 #39
H2O Man Feb 2016 #64
JDPriestly Feb 2016 #42
H2O Man Feb 2016 #65
Punkingal Feb 2016 #45
H2O Man Feb 2016 #66
MissDeeds Feb 2016 #47
H2O Man Feb 2016 #116
frylock Feb 2016 #49
H2O Man Feb 2016 #118
frylock Feb 2016 #144
TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #51
H2O Man Feb 2016 #166
californiabernin Feb 2016 #52
H2O Man Feb 2016 #167
Gregorian Feb 2016 #56
H2O Man Feb 2016 #168
George II Feb 2016 #59
H2O Man Feb 2016 #63
sadoldgirl Feb 2016 #60
H2O Man Feb 2016 #114
onecaliberal Feb 2016 #61
H2O Man Feb 2016 #120
ngGale Feb 2016 #67
H2O Man Feb 2016 #121
bettyellen Feb 2016 #68
840high Feb 2016 #84
bettyellen Feb 2016 #85
840high Feb 2016 #89
H2O Man Feb 2016 #122
islandmkl Feb 2016 #70
H2O Man Feb 2016 #123
blm Feb 2016 #72
H2O Man Feb 2016 #124
blm Feb 2016 #131
Iwillnevergiveup Feb 2016 #74
H2O Man Feb 2016 #125
Moral Compass Feb 2016 #76
H2O Man Feb 2016 #126
Ccarmona Feb 2016 #77
H2O Man Feb 2016 #127
roguevalley Feb 2016 #78
H2O Man Feb 2016 #128
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #79
H2O Man Feb 2016 #129
Pauldg47 Feb 2016 #80
H2O Man Feb 2016 #132
Arazi Feb 2016 #81
H2O Man Feb 2016 #133
840high Feb 2016 #86
H2O Man Feb 2016 #134
rhett o rick Feb 2016 #87
H2O Man Feb 2016 #135
rhett o rick Feb 2016 #148
PatrickforO Feb 2016 #90
H2O Man Feb 2016 #136
Major Hogwash Feb 2016 #91
H2O Man Feb 2016 #137
Major Hogwash Feb 2016 #204
ms liberty Feb 2016 #92
H2O Man Feb 2016 #138
w4rma Feb 2016 #93
H2O Man Feb 2016 #140
femmedem Feb 2016 #94
H2O Man Feb 2016 #141
myrna minx Feb 2016 #95
H2O Man Feb 2016 #142
Mbrow Feb 2016 #96
H2O Man Feb 2016 #143
Agony Feb 2016 #98
H2O Man Feb 2016 #145
rosesaylavee Feb 2016 #99
H2O Man Feb 2016 #146
mak3cats Feb 2016 #100
H2O Man Feb 2016 #149
Tab Feb 2016 #101
Sensitive soul Feb 2016 #109
Tab Feb 2016 #110
H2O Man Feb 2016 #150
Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #102
H2O Man Feb 2016 #151
malthaussen Feb 2016 #103
H2O Man Feb 2016 #169
malthaussen Feb 2016 #192
PWPippin Feb 2016 #104
H2O Man Feb 2016 #170
PWPippin Feb 2016 #205
GoneOffShore Feb 2016 #106
H2O Man Feb 2016 #171
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #108
H2O Man Feb 2016 #172
stupidicus Feb 2016 #111
H2O Man Feb 2016 #173
stupidicus Feb 2016 #200
Sensitive soul Feb 2016 #112
H2O Man Feb 2016 #174
Overseas Feb 2016 #113
H2O Man Feb 2016 #175
lunatica Feb 2016 #117
H2O Man Feb 2016 #176
grntuscarora Feb 2016 #119
H2O Man Feb 2016 #177
blondie58 Feb 2016 #130
H2O Man Feb 2016 #178
highprincipleswork Feb 2016 #139
H2O Man Feb 2016 #179
Dem2 Feb 2016 #147
H2O Man Feb 2016 #180
Peace Patriot Feb 2016 #152
H2O Man Feb 2016 #181
sellitman Feb 2016 #154
H2O Man Feb 2016 #182
Erda Feb 2016 #156
H2O Man Feb 2016 #183
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #157
H2O Man Feb 2016 #184
Land of Enchantment Feb 2016 #158
H2O Man Feb 2016 #185
JohnnyRingo Feb 2016 #159
H2O Man Feb 2016 #186
JohnnyRingo Feb 2016 #194
Bangbangdem Feb 2016 #161
H2O Man Feb 2016 #187
noretreatnosurrender Feb 2016 #162
H2O Man Feb 2016 #188
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #163
H2O Man Feb 2016 #189
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #191
H2O Man Feb 2016 #190
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #193
nolabels Feb 2016 #195
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #199
Octafish Feb 2016 #197
kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #201
Bradical79 Feb 2016 #202

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:49 PM

1. knr well said.

She lost by 22% in NH, we lost by 4% in NV.

I think we're fine.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:50 PM

3. Exactly!

Indeed, we are fine!

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Response to retrowire (Reply #1)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:11 PM

16. Just Keep Pumping Bernie With Some CA$H In OUR Shared Fight Against The Establishment!

Make calls... Her vector is headed South... When the word gets out on the cheating and arm twisting that took place in Vegas today then people will start to get the message. Iowa shenanigans was no accident either... The trend will continue...



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Response to CorporatistNation (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:12 PM

18. Since Bernie's campaign encouraged Bernie supporters to record everything,

I hope we see a good amount of crap to make public.

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Response to retrowire (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:53 AM

83. People have no idea of the money behind Hillary.

A Bernie Saners Presidency would be a giant buzz kill for Wall Street, Big Pharma, the MIC, Health insurance industry... A lot of money and/or opportunity can go to politicians and others who are willing to perform an artful smear to help Hillary. These powers currently run our government and will not go easily, certainly not without a terrible political fight. This is the political revolution!

Bernie has drawn them out and the battle is joined!

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Response to Dustlawyer (Reply #83)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:23 AM

88. ^. n/t

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Response to CorporatistNation (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:24 PM

32. Bertha Lewis Acting Like The Shill Taht She Is On Democracy NOW Comments below.

I tried to see this woman's side but the minute she said we need a woman president.. I already knew what her reason was.... she just wants a female president just to say we have have one.
96
mickeydusk
mickeydusk3 days ago
+BlackLabelSlushie but having a president with a vagina will be so good for women... Why wont u listen to reason ?!?
Darin Brown
Darin Brown2 weeks ago
"Everyone takes money, everyone does it..." No, not everyone does, one in particular isn't doing that. That's the whole point.
47
Jade Brown
Jade Brown2 weeks ago
Still not buying it, you DO NOT take money from Wall Street if you want to fix corruption. This "being complex" argumemt from her supporter is false, and is NOT Progressive.
43
tinfoilhatter
tinfoilhatter2 weeks ago
+Jade Brown clear conflicts of interest,wherever hilary is involed! duh!
5
Caligula Jones
Caligula Jones2 weeks ago
Why do they keep having Clinton supporters on? Isn't there enough of that in the alternate reality of the network news?
18
feralapple
feralapple2 days ago
+SpaceGoat it is not progressive. Voting in a woman solely because she owns female genitalia is sexist and regressive.
I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren for president because she has integrity, her birth canal has nothing to do with anything.
TheUnspokenAlias
TheUnspokenAlias2 weeks ago (edited)
Electing a woman president of the US will be a revolution when said woman will be and feel allowed to express sensitivity instead of behaving like an enraged pitbull, because that day, it will mean the military-industrial complex will have been overturned. Until then, enough with the cheap "woman" card already... as if being a woman meant one is entitled to represent the whole female gender.

"If that's the worst you've got on her..." : as a matter of fact, it isn't : Iraq, Libya, surveillance state... Should we go on ?

"Everyone does it [take fees from multinationals for overpayed speeches]". That other democratic candidate too ?

Voluntary servitude is your problem, Bertha... Back in the days, they called it "the house-nigger complex"... Cheers !

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:50 PM

2. "The old get old and the young get stronger...

May take a week and it may take longer... "

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Response to dchill (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:51 PM

4. They've got the money,

we got the numbers ....

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:53 PM

7. Are we showing our age?

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Response to dchill (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:03 PM

10. Yes

(And our music was wonderful!)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #10)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:10 PM

14. Yes, it still is!

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Response to dchill (Reply #14)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:13 PM

20. I guessing that

I'm not the only one who has been listening to the "good stuff" lately -- sometimes really loud.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:47 PM

196. Good song...

Along with the Unknown Soldier...

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #4)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:12 PM

19. but we don't have the numbers. Not yet we don't. And we are running out of time. nt

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Response to antigop (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:14 PM

22. It's a process.

We have to trust in the process to the exact extent required to bring forth our very best efforts. We'll get those numbers.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #22)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:18 PM

25. sadly, not in my lifetime. Time's about up. nt

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Response to dchill (Reply #2)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:36 PM

43. The young are getting stronger and if we unite that is a force to be reckoned with ...

otherwise I am afraid we have Trump.



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Response to slipslidingaway (Reply #43)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:39 PM

46. That possibility concerns me.

I think that there is a growing awareness of the rise of fascist tendencies in part of our society. And that is absolutely what this election contest comes down to. The best way to oppose its growth is to be actively engaged in the Sanders's revolutionary movement.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:29 AM

73. We need to unite and educate, they have their issues, more social and economic, but we have ...

issues that cross lines with the younger generation, HC and SS. They never 'fought the establishment' so to speak as we did in the 60's or 70's, still they just know things are not right.

Many of our kids grew up not seeing all the divisions along race or gender, for them that is somewhat of a given, and that is fantastic. We need to keep that alive and not forge a division!

Among my kids, one states she could move to another country, a 30 year doc who knows she has abilities that will be welcomed in other countries. I was surprised to hear her say so, but not shocked, she told us that a few weeks when she switched parties and registered as Dem to vote for Sanders in Florida. My son is less on a permanent footing, yet still independent as far as his beliefs. Sometimes they both need some prodding, a parent's work is never done.




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Response to dchill (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:36 PM

155. They've got the *guns* but

We've got the numbers. Gonna win, yeah, we're takin over. C'mon!!

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Response to GreenEyedLefty (Reply #155)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:29 PM

164. Looks like we are

going to have a Doors reunion here! I just got back from driving my youngest daughter back to college; that allowed me several hours of The Doors, very loud!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:52 PM

5. He's doing amazingly well. He is very much in this race.

 

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Response to morningfog (Reply #5)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:05 PM

11. Right!

I think it's safe to say that some of the higher-ups in the Clinton campaign recognize what's happening. They will continue to try to spin perception. But more and more people are thinking!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:52 PM

6. Words of comfort this evening are extremely appreciated

I am just a little disappointed this evening, but my motor will be up and running again as usual by tomorrow when I wake. Mostly, I feel for Bernie and his wife.

All I can say for now.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:08 PM

13. The Good Fight!

Even the greatest boxer ever, heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali, took the minute rest period between rounds. We all have to take care of ourselves -- as well as others. Quite often, I find that the best people focus on others' needs, to an extent they ignore their own. So I'm really glad to read that you are relaxing tonight, resting up for tomorrow!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:21 AM

105. As an aside...

... and speaking of the Sweet Science, are you familiar with the bare-knuckle roots of championship boxing in the 18th century? Fascinating stuff, there. The rules were quite different then. And the punishment the contestants took... genuinely horrifying. Among the things I find most gruesome is that a "round" could last an hour, and sometimes did.

It was pretty crooked, too, as the great fight between Tom Molineaux and Tom Cribb shows.

-- Mal

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:54 PM

8. I Just Started A Thread That Sounded Close To Yours...

And yeah, the old do get older... I ARE one, but with age comes WISDOM! Heh, heh.

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Response to ChiciB1 (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:11 PM

17. Great!

I will be sure to help keep your's going. And I agree 100% with you about wisdom.

(My children tell me that I'm so old, that I should be on the cover of National Geographic!)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:20 PM

28. Don't Worry About My Thread... I've Been Sitting Here All Day

so I think I better get up while I can. My back is killing me! LOL!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 10:56 PM

9. Thank you, H2O Man.

I was feeling quite despondent about the caucus results; but, of course, you are right.

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Response to FourScore (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:25 PM

33. Thank you!

I'm really glad if my OP assisted in even a small way of helping you put today's events into proper context. We are in good shape.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:07 PM

12. Very true, H2O Man.

I agree, I'm pretty pleased too. Just very aware of how badly the machine wants to prevent a Sanders win at all costs. But I do also believe support for him is growing.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #12)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:26 PM

34. Yep.

As support among citizens increases, the powers-that-be will all try to convince us that it's hopeless, and other lies. Baloney.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:10 PM

15. Walking on the path of Peaceful Warrior



I salute you with this song tonight

Listening (Honor Song) - John Trudell - Tribal Voices


Good night....

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #15)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:18 PM

26. Oh,man!

I never met John, but a lot of my friends knew him well. There's less of them alive these days. But there's a big segment of this Young Generation, who have been called forth, and are answering that call in the same spirit.

"It's a 500-year tradition that you can't break." -- great line

Thank you so much!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #26)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:24 PM

31. I actually wanted to share "Chant" by him but I could not find any on-line

It is in the album called "Madness & The Moremes"

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #31)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:28 PM

36. He was an

extraordinary man. I think it's important that our side listen to his music.

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:54 PM

160. 'You must remember the gentleness of time'

'We are the spirit of natural light that is forever.'

No need to panic.

Thank you kgnu_fan.

Also a special thank you to H20 man for your words of wisdom.

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Response to sorechasm (Reply #160)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:30 PM

165. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:14 PM

21. Yes, and I think he has earned another donation from me. Very, very soon. nt

 

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:31 PM

40. Perfect!

That is the perfect answer! We should all be contributing; if people can't afford to donate money right now, their contribution of time and energy is equally important. Each according to their ability. Thank you very much!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:25 AM

71. He is in it to win it, and so am I. Thank you for the additional reminders.

 

PS: You were one that received one of my Valentine hearts, for your contributions to DU over the years. Just FYI.

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #71)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:27 PM

115. Oh, that's so nice!

Thank you. I really appreciate that, much more than you might know.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:16 PM

23. Sent him more

…..cash tonight.

Obama lost NV by 6 points in 2008.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #23)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:33 PM

41. Thank you!

I appreciate your mentioning these things -- glad you donated, and for the '08 reminder!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #41)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:48 PM

55. Hi H20 Man

……Additionally he raised almost more than twice what she raised in the last month, says National Public Radio.

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Response to zentrum (Reply #55)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:53 PM

58. Thanks, zentrum!

I know a lot of people who have donated funds today. Man! I love it!

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Response to zentrum (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:42 AM

97. K&R Thank for posting

Donate and remember Nevada has a large LDS population, even the democratic LDS tends to be very conservative.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:17 PM

24. Bernie is doing very well, the odds he keeps beating..wow. Important to take stock and push

forward really hard, but also celebrate these achievements, I think.

Your mention of our party going rightward..in a nutshell, it's the money that does that.

Armstead wrote a heartfelt OP this evening about the frustrations we see in the establishment.

We'll get there..in solidarity for the win.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #24)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:42 PM

48. Absolutely!

We should definitely be celebrating tonight. We have every reason to be!

And you are correct: money is destroying our system.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:20 PM

27. Bernie did dam well today

despite what the so called media whores are yammering about. And as far as turn out,geez Louise,this is Nevada,people here work 2 jobs 7days a week. And in saying that,have been doing this caucus thing for more the fifty years and today was kick ass and I give all those folks who did make it to the most important thing in these United States. They got involved,and when I talked to many,it was the enthusiasm for being involved again or they never did this type of thing.

Yes,we lost by 4 points,but,we are more viable now than ever. This race is way to close to through in the towel. Watch and see,there are so many issues on the Nations Stage and got a hunch some one is going to do a gaff,and then watch the circus begin.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #27)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:45 PM

50. Great points.

I agree about the up-coming gaff. Good call.

And I'm pleased that Jeb can now spend more time with his family. I think his dismal, pathetic campaign has been a serious disappointment -- and wake up call -- for the republican elders.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #50)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:32 AM

75. Just read some of the comments coming from the Reno-Sparks end of the state.

Appears Mr. Sanders scored big time. Just read a blurb about Clark County and the Reid/Culinary tie-up giving Hillary the over the top win. What appears is this,you and I are seeing a wave coming. If the Northern Part of Nevada did go heavy Sanders,got a hunch California is going to be the real prize and I'll give it Bernie 60 clinton 40 and we have a brokered convention.

Not counting Bush out,still say he will be the draft candidate in the Rethugs Brokered Convention. We are living in a great new time,got my seat belt cinched and going really watch this thing play out.

As for the gaffe,ego's have a way of biting one in the Ass,if you know way I mean.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #75)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:29 AM

107. But a brokered convention may be bad news.

In that event, the politician with the connections gets the win, and that is not Bernie Sanders. That is what I see happening, the race will continue to be close, the popular voice will be with Mr Sanders, and the authorities will select Mrs Clinton. Which may just perpetuate a constitutional crisis.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #107)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:22 PM

153. Usually when that happens,

one or more Candidate will support a consensus Candidate with the persons exiting get some type of parachute for their support. Looking for the DNC to start following the lead of R.T. Ryback and Debbie Downer will go quiet. This is our Election to lose,and after yesterday,you know dam well there will be a major reshuffling at DNC headquarters.

We need to recapture the Senate,the House is lost until 2020 and redistricting,which means we need a Centrist to Left leaning Jurist on the Supreme Court to change voter repression laws as well as Citizen United.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #27)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:17 PM

198. its about delegates

Only delegates matter and right now they are tied at 51 when seperating out the supers until the convention.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:20 PM

29. Thank you.

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #29)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:46 PM

53. Thank you, Sammy!

Glad to be on the same team!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:22 PM

30. Hah - I knew this was s Jim Morrison post the second I saw it!

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #30)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:47 PM

54. I've been listening

to The Doors quite a bit recently. Great music! And it still inspires mood!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:28 PM

35. K & R

I think Colorado will go for Bernie. Been getting a lot of positive feedback.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #35)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:51 PM

57. Great!

I am glad to hear that. It can be difficult to confront the machine,in its various manifestations. But it can be accomplished. Good people can get together and reason for themselves.

I love that when our opposition tries to frame it that "Bernie's supporters want 'free stuff'," our side is clarifying that we actually want our tax dollars to be spent wisely, investing in human beings, not war.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #57)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:52 AM

82. For me it's mainly about peace and foreign policy.

The endless cycle of imperialism, intervention and aggression must be stopped. We've been at it in varying degrees always, but especially since WWII, and it's not working. Like you said, I want my tax dollars invested in human beings, not war.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:28 PM

37. Precicnt 6674

Spring Valley High School
Precinct 6674 37/30 for Bernie

I am going to be generous in assuming today's mess was not calculated.

Today's caucus was a mess and I am pretty sure that worked in Clinton's favor. Registration was disorganized and people were sent from line to line and in and out of rooms with conflicting instructions. Once the caucus started it was clear the person running our precinct had no idea what he was doing. After doing a headcount he dismissed the room without siging up delegates. Most people there did not know the process and started to leave. Fortunately a few of us knew that we were actually supposed to elect delegates and have them complete delegate cards so they can attend the next caucus in April. We got that completed and also signed up alternated delegates. So I guess we got the job done in our precinct.

But it makes me wonder how many others were so FUBAR that people came and left without their presence being accounted for. The Democratic Party of Nevada should be ashamed.

Rant done.

The OP has written eloquently and with wisdom. We are on the march. We have momentum (Bernie was down 25% in Nevada 4 weeks ago and only down by 5% today). If we keep fighting. We will win.

Peace and keep on keeping on.

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Response to tommcc99 (Reply #37)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:59 PM

62. Thank you.

I agree with you ....I've heard things from associates today that have me questioning some questionable activities in Nevada. I'm not comfortable with people who shrug their shoulders, and attribute it to the nature of politics .....though they are not as cowardly to those republicans who lie about voters to try to suppress the vote, or Democrats who bury their heads in the sand.

Your response reminded me of something from the 2004 presidential contest. It's something that I was connected, though indirectly, to. I wrote on DU about it then, but will address it again in an OP. It's something that both the Sanders and Clinton campaigns should be interested in. So thank you, again!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:12 PM

203. Nevada Dem Party Leadership is 100% for Hillary.....

Nevada Dem's and Independents, not so much.
Same as it ever was - sometimes those in power want to stay in power at any cost.
We will be better prepared for the the next caucus in April and then the state in May... Primary would be so much easier and maybe that's the point. (cynicism)

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Response to tommcc99 (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:09 AM

69. Sorry to learn this but not really surprised. And shame on Nevada Dems.

From another post Harry Reid has a lot of influence in the state of course.

Thanks for relaying some on the ground reality.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:28 PM

38. 100% pleased implies you couldn't be more pleased but then you indicate you would have been...

in Sanders had won.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #38)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:37 PM

44. Silly!

As noted, I said I am "100% pleased." Then, I noted i might have been "happier" .....

My range of feelings and emotions is not restricted. I've never done "rigid" well.

Have a great night, and a better tomorrow!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:31 PM

39. Great post H20 Man.

Gotta get together one more time.
Peace.
LT

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Response to lasttrip (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:01 AM

64. Thank you.

(But not in Miami. That song can bring out the worst in the blue meanies in Miami.)

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:34 PM

42. K&R.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:01 AM

65. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:37 PM

45. You made me feel better, thanks.

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Response to Punkingal (Reply #45)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:02 AM

66. Thank you!

I feel better every time I talk with you, so if I returned the favor, that's great!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:41 PM

47. Thanks H2O Man

 



K&R

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #47)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:32 PM

116. Thanks, MissDeeds!

We are on our way to victory. What is interesting is that our goal is to share the bounty with others .....definitely with our Sisters and Brothers who currently support Hillary Clinton .....but also with our neighbors who have been tricked into supporting republicans who actually hold them in utter contempt.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:45 PM

49. Well stated!

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Response to frylock (Reply #49)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:33 PM

118. Thanks, frylock!

I'm honored to be on the same team with you. I always admire your contributions to the DU community!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #118)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:45 PM

144. I'm humbled, dear Waterman.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:45 PM

51. K & R!

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Response to TIME TO PANIC (Reply #51)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:31 PM

166. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:46 PM

52. I stand with you H2O man. Well said! nt

 

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Response to californiabernin (Reply #52)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:31 PM

167. Thank you, my Friend!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:51 PM

56. Cheers!

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #56)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:32 PM

168. Thank you, Brother Gregorian!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:55 PM

59. Psssst.... this was a Democratic caucus, not a "contest".

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Response to George II (Reply #59)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:59 PM

63. silly

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:55 PM

60. What worries me more than the 5% loss

is the fact that the turn out by the repugs is great,

while ours is far less than hoped for.

The repugs are totally energized, while we

fizzle.

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Response to sadoldgirl (Reply #60)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:25 PM

114. I hear you.

That's definitely an important issue. And it's one that each one of us needs to work on turning around. And that's key .....for there has never, in human history, been any important struggles that have not contained disappointments. None. In every important advance towards social justice, it's been because of ordinary people doing extraordinary things. Today, that includes you and I, and everyone here in the DU community.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Feb 20, 2016, 11:56 PM

61. A 25% lead vanished in a month. I'd be very discouraged if I were a HRC supporter.

I'm stoked, donated again earlier today.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #61)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:37 PM

120. Key point!

I was watching the returns with my cousin yesterday. He was very focused on if we would come out a couple points ahead, or behind. I noted exactly what you stated here. Then he understood the true significance.

Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:07 AM

67. Thank you for...

this thread. So very inspirational...

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Response to ngGale (Reply #67)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:39 PM

121. And thank you

for participating in this thread, for it is the DU community's participation that makes it special.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:07 AM

68. "each attack as an opportunity to engage in a conversation" about red T-shirts? heckling Latina

 

activists and then calling them liars? or just bitching about the caucus and saying it is crooked be cause your team didn't prepare well?

Yeah, remaining positive would have been a good idea, about two tons of sour grapes ago.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:58 AM

84. It was crooked. One caucus person

 

had to tell them 3 times before they changed his vote from Hillary to Bernie. How many went unnoticed?

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Response to 840high (Reply #84)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:01 AM

85. How many people switched their votes from one to another in the middle of the caucus? That sounds

 

like a suspicious story from a flakey person looking for attention. Is this another tweet story?

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #85)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:34 AM

89. Not a tweet - link was

 

posted here on DU to the story.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #68)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:46 PM

122. Thanks, bettyellen.

We are all in this, together. Those "sour grapes" are to be avoided, for they are the poison fruits of Kundalini. They keep people unconscious.

True consciousness, of course, is not a dialogue with "self," but an actual, obtainable state in which we love the world. May we all share in its fruits.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:11 AM

70. H2O Man nails it again...and now the M$M is touting

BIG wins for Clinton and Trump...Trump by 10, HRC by 5...guess its all in the algebra or whatever...

it's going to be a long haul, but the message works...we just have to keep pushing...

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Response to islandmkl (Reply #70)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:48 PM

123. Yes.

As Minister Malcolm X noted, if we believe the media, we will be carrying umbrellas on sunny days, and getting soaked on rainy days. And a lot of the public is tiring of getting soaked.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:25 AM

72. You're a smart guy, Waterman.

I, too, am not surprised, nor bothered, even though I was probably HRC's toughest DU critic for most of my years here. Most of her supporters have been our compatriots for over a decade and we know that NONE of us would abandon our mutual goals over a heated primary.

My agenda now is all about GOTV and my posts are based in that.

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Response to blm (Reply #72)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:55 PM

124. Thanks!

Though I'm not convinced that I really am a "smart guy," I play one on DU. (grin)

A few years back, after being interviewed by some regional journalists, one young reporter said to the others, "Wow, that's the smartest person I've ever met!" I told my Clan Mother that I was uncomfortable with that, because all I had really done was shared the knowledge that truly intelligent people had taught me. I offered nothing original. She said, "Well, that's true. But then you have to ask, who taught them?"

Before Chief Waterman passed, he instructed me on my duties. I'm happy that people here appreciate the things I add. But I keep in mind that it's not about me.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #124)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:10 PM

131. Exactly - That's why I turned to GOTV, and applying the lion's share of my energy there.

Living in a purple state that is now solidly red thanks to gerrymandering, GOTV has become CRUCIAL. We have to get 2 votes to every one of theirs just to break even.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:32 AM

74. Very thoughtful post, H20 Man

Thank you for it. Helps to keep one's perspective. Remember what Bernie said:

"Do not underestimate me."

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Response to Iwillnevergiveup (Reply #74)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:58 PM

125. "Do not underestimate me."

Thank you for reminding us of that!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:32 AM

76. Bravo!

Well said.

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Response to Moral Compass (Reply #76)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:58 PM

126. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:33 AM

77. The Caucus System

 

Is a fraud for not reflecting the true pulse of the Nevada Democratic Party members What 11-12 thousand people "voted". In S Carolina's primary 600 -700,000 voted.
I have a top donater NV progressive friend who played golf Saturday rather than deal with the Caucus bullshit.

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Response to Ccarmona (Reply #77)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:59 PM

127. Right.

I agree 100%.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:34 AM

78. I love your posts, H2O Man. Thank you and best wishes tonight. :D

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #78)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:00 PM

128. Oh, thank you!

I will always remember that you were among the first to make me feel welcome here, when I joined in 2003.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:34 AM

79. There seems to be an uptick in people thinking for themselves. It's an ecouraging trend. K&R!

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #79)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:01 PM

129. Exactly!

It is gaining momentum. And that's a good thing.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:38 AM

80. Did Harry Reed and his other establishment Dem peers....

...talk to union leaders to not endorse anyone? So the Latin American workers were not told who to vote for? For Christ sake many didn't know who Bernie was........then culinary union leaders were bought out I bet you by Hillary banker thugs. If Bernie wins, establishment reps better watch their backs next election!!!

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Response to Pauldg47 (Reply #80)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:15 PM

132. Interesting.

I was talking to an associate yesterday, a retired member of a large carpenters' union. Their leadership has endorsed Clinton, without asking any input from the membership.

My associate reviewed some numbers with me. Less than 10% of the members appear firmly or likely to support Hillary. The rest is evenly divided between those who support Bernie, and those who mistakenly support Trump. He explained that the Trumpets are generally backwards-thinking, sexists who resent women in power in genera, and who despise the image of Hillary that is inaccurate.

Hence, we focused upon strategies to turn the Trump supporters around. We are doing it, one person at a time. But it is definitely working. Thus far, the most common feature is their saying Bernie supporters want "free stuff," which we counter with, "Actually, we want you to have a say in how your tax dollars are being spent. Would you rather invest in your children, nieces, and nephews' future, or give your hard-earned money to billionaires?" It has proven effective.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:42 AM

81. A breath of calm. Needed this tonight so thank you eom

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Response to Arazi (Reply #81)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:28 PM

133. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:02 AM

86. Thank you. Luv ya

 

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Response to 840high (Reply #86)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:29 PM

134. Thank you!

Keep on fighting the Good Fight!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:04 AM

87. What was the national delegate count from Nevada? nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #87)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:30 PM

135. Good question.

I'm not sure. Just my opinion, but the delegate count seems to favor the establishment. Shocking, I know!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #135)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:51 PM

148. Help me understand the link below. Almost looks like the recent vote was preliminary

 

with county and state voting still to come.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/NV-D

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:41 AM

90. You've cheered me up!

Bernie has in fact changed the dialog.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #90)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:32 PM

136. Good!

That makes me happy to hear.

I've been on the telephone a lot this morning. And a number of friends and associates who found yesterday's results depressing are coming to see it for what it actually is -- good news. Very good news, indeed.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:20 AM

91. I don't get how the Morrison quote ties in with the tradition of the founding fathers.

But, that's okay.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #91)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:37 PM

137. I'll try to find

one of my favorite Thomas Jefferson photos, in which he's wearing a "The Doors" T-shirt. It's the photo that Jon Capehart is current disputing -- he insists it was a Grateful Dead T-shirt. But it wasn't. I was at the concert ......

Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #137)

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 01:28 AM

204. Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain . . .

. . . and all the children are insane . . . all the children are insane . . .


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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:28 AM

92. Thanks H20 Man. I needed some uplifting

Can't sleep. Feeling a bit discouraged at the consolidation of power by the establishment's "corporate partners" - they're not even being covert about it anymore. They own it all, both parties, and they don't care that we see it. The open disdain for the needs of the people will I hope be their downfall.

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Response to ms liberty (Reply #92)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:39 PM

138. Thank you, my Friend.

That disdain is currently turning to anxiety, as more and more people are waking up to their self-worth. This is a huge struggle. But we will win.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:55 AM

93. In my opinion, it was more important to win the Latino vote than to win that caucus.

 

If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick the Latino vote, every time. The Latino vote is going to be extremely important in upcoming delegate heavy states.

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Response to w4rma (Reply #93)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:40 PM

140. Extremely important point.

The top dogs of the opposition recognize this, too.

Thank you.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:25 AM

94. Thank you. This is exactly what I needed to read this morning. n/t

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Response to femmedem (Reply #94)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:41 PM

141. Thank you!

Proud to serve on the same team with you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:59 AM

95. I agree - democratic socialism is now in our political bloodstream:

something so unthinkable as early as 4 years ago.

We can dare to dream big regardless of the loud angry chorus of the powerful proclaiming "NO!". I've been quite moved at how quickly the political trajectory has changed. From the early days of Occupy to present - these ideas have caught the passions of a whole new generation and it's so inspiring to see. The rhizomes are connecting under the soil.

*This* is how compromises are made - you aim big and negotiate from there - not give your weakest position and cave in from there. This Bernie Sanders is a smart man.

OOf - I haven't had any coffee yet, so I'm just babbling.

Thank you for your essay. It's inspiring as ever.

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #95)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:44 PM

142. Very well said!

In his final years of life, Rubin would get his college & university audiences to join him in saying -- loudly -- "Yes!" He said that we need to stop listening to those who insist, "No!"

It sounds simply. The Truth often is.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:36 AM

96. k&R Thank for posting

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Response to Mbrow (Reply #96)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:44 PM

143. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:16 AM

98. Rock and Roll is here to stay!

I think that is what you are saying, figuratively of course.

Ciao,
Agony

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Response to Agony (Reply #98)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:46 PM

145. That's it, Agony!

There's more to the picture, than meets the eye .....

Ciao, my Friend.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:35 AM

99. Party moving to the right...

I agree with that assessment and have had plenty of moments this past year wondering why in the world do I belong to this Party at all.

Last night joined with others to protest a County Democratic Dinner in the next county over to the East of where I live as one of it's members is the sole remaining Democrat in our State supporting the TPP.

We stood on the parkway across the street from the banquet hall with our signs and I am sure our chants were lost in the noise from the highway behind us and the constant wind. But all attending had to drive by us to get into the parking lot -- and many stood in the lobby peering out at us when they should have been in the room having their cocktails. So our presence was at least a topic of conversation -- something that was definitely not on the original agenda for the evening.

What I thought was more interesting, is that about 20 people attending the banquet came out over the course of the hour and half we were there to talk to us, to tell us they were supporting what we were doing, that they didn't know why this man was supporting TPP either. One man came out to tell us he was a no-show, others came out and were surprised to hear he wasn't showing up but assured us they would put the photos on Facebook and tag him so he knew we were there. Met a few who came out as they were running for Congress in my district to the west and another to the north- both districts I lobby with others to put a price on carbon. They were interested in hearing what I had to say and they will be getting more information on that today.

I told a couple of the women who came out that it was a heck of thing to have to picket your own Party and they looked stunned -- but replied that yes, they can understand that and would tell the man who's the last hold out in the state that that was said.

As it has been stated here on this board before... and I think you have said this many times ... it's important to get off DU and get your body engaged in your community, talk with others, communicate your concerns. I would say that is one thing I have learned from being on this board for 10 years. This was organized by a woman I have known for about 20 years -- she sent an email around and made personal calls to get people to commit to show up -- and said to keep it quiet so this guy didn't hear ahead of time that we were going to be there. Party members who came out to talk with us first thought it had been MoveOn who had organized this -- I wanted to say, 'No, this was Mary'.

I think it was my favorite protest I have attended ever. I think the message was delivered - several ways.

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Response to rosesaylavee (Reply #99)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:49 PM

146. Beautiful! Just beautiful!

Your post, and your action, really makes me happy. Thank you so much. That's it. That's really what this is all about.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:25 AM

100. K&R for a oasis of calm in a sea of turbulence... (eom)

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Response to mak3cats (Reply #100)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:53 PM

149. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:34 AM

101. Just to round out the discussion

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Response to Tab (Reply #101)


Response to Sensitive soul (Reply #109)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:05 PM

110. Welcome to DU!

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Response to Tab (Reply #101)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:01 PM

150. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:45 AM

102. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, H2O Man.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #102)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:01 PM

151. Thanks, Uncle Joe!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:13 AM

103. The crowing, however, is starting to get on my nerves...

... some of our fellow DUers appear to have the patience and attention span of toddlers, which is quite discouraging. Even the vitriol poured out in dispute is more tolerable, as it can at least be a sign of honest passion, but when a close contest is "won" by a whisker and the partisans gloat, it wounds my spirit. Mind you, that's a personal quirk, I tend to be uncompetitive and don't like that conduct after a baseball game, much less a caucus.

The situation appears to be in balance, with the tides of enthusiasm lapping the shore, but not quite being enough to overcome inertia. This is both good and bad. Good, because as you say, the measure of an insurgency is different from the measure of the Establishment. But what happens to all the enthusiasm if Mr Sanders loses? Mature voters who are realists will vote for Mrs Clinton, but her appeal is one of damage control, and that inspires no poetry. The worry for me is that the voters will stay away in droves if Mrs Clinton is the candidate. Meanwhile, Mr Trump arouses terrific enthusiasm among the mean-spirited third of the population. They will assuredly vote, the more so as the GOP is well-disciplined and rarely shows inability to muster sufficient votes to elect their candidate. Mr Obama was able to defeat this capacity, but Mr Obama was also able to arouse great enthusiasm. I doubt many people voted for him solely because the alternative was unthinkable, they voted for him because they genuinely wanted him in the White House. Does Mrs Clinton have the same appeal?

Imagine if Mr Sanders were given the support and encouragement of the party apparatus. The Democrats would have a candidate whose appeal is great across all classes. But of course, an insurgent can never hope for such support. Mr Sanders can only win if the American people force the Democratic Party to accept him, and as yet there is no sign that the Party does so, regardless of the feelings of the people. And although Mr Sanders is melting away much of Mrs Clinton's support, as yet it is not sufficient to cause the Party to embrace Mr Sanders.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #103)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:41 PM

169. When I read your posts,

I find myself looking forward to one day sitting down and talking with you for hours and hours. This post, for example, has over a dozen points worthy of detailed discussion. And it serves as a powerful example of what level of discussion is possible -- but so often avoided -- today, even on this forum.

We need to harness the energy that is moving the Sanders revolution forward. Indeed, it needs to be applied at all levels of society, in order to achieve the necessary results. Now, at my age, I'd like to be able to honestly say that I'm no longer competitive. And, in most areas of life, I am not the same as I was, let's say back when I was an amateur boxer. But there are some contests that I still refuse to lose at.

The truth is, of course, that I do not have the ability to determine the outcome of the current struggle. But I can do my best. And so that is what I focus on.

As always, your contributions are a high point on this forum.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #169)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:20 PM

192. Likewise, for sure.

There are a few people here that I would love to sit down and change the world with, and you're one of them.

The good news, as I see it, is that momentum is cumulative. As Mr Sanders's supporters on the ground spread the message, greater percentages of the "Who's Bernie" crowd will come over. Mrs Clinton does not have that advantage: we've known her for years, and the only question with her is which way the wind is blowing today. So it is really a race against time, the question being if the message can be internalized before the various votes.

It would be exciting, even, if it weren't so important.

-- Mal

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:16 AM

104. Thank you, H2O Man!

I went to bed feeling despondent and woke up to your post. Now, I feel hopeful and energized. With your wise words and measured response, you have helped to turn this little Bernie ship back on course. As many have said, we can measure our progress partly by the negative actions and reactions from the Clinton campaign. You are a wonderful advocate for the positive energy and commitment to just causes that Bernie exhibits.

And I meant to thank you, too, for your gracious and well thought out responses to all who have replied to your uplifting post. So, thank you, again.

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Response to PWPippin (Reply #104)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:47 PM

170. Thanks, PWPippin!

I am glad if my essay here helped to make you feel better about yesterday's events. That really makes it worthwhile for me. I really appreciate that you have taken the time to tellme!

It's definitely my pleasure to have the opportunity to respond to those who take the time to encourage me here. At this point in my long life, I attempt to be a hermit. One of my favorite activities in life these days is to sit for long hours, beside my pond, and soak in the beauty of the Natural World. I consider DU to be another pond that I have the opportunity to participate in. I love the people here.

Again, thank you very much. Your kind words mean the world tome.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #170)

Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:10 AM

205. H2O Man, I return to your posts to help keep my sanity.

I find my center with my two dogs, Audrey and Daphne. They live life in the moment, carry no grudges and enjoy simple pleasures. We take long walks in the woods, beaches and fields near our home and I try to see the world through their eyes. I think their noses take in more than I can handle. Enjoy your solitude.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:25 AM

106. Brilliantly said! And luckily the "No We Can't" crowd hasn't shown up.

Though I'm sure they will.

It will be interesting to see the obfuscation and justification that comes out of that camp.

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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #106)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:52 PM

171. Thank you.

A few of my good friends who are currently supporting Hillary have responded here. But I do find it odd that most of the Hillary supporters avoid reading and responding to my OPs. In fact, I mentioned that to my oldest son this morning. He said that normal people do not like to argue with me. He may have a point .....but I don't think that "normal" people inhabit the DU community -- extraordinary people do. More, I'm not looking to "argue." I would hope to discuss issues ....maybe even debate issues. But I keep in mind that all the pro-Clinton people on DU -- including a handful that I can't honestly say that I like -- are Good People, who really want the best for our society.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 11:49 AM

108. Sunday morning kick for good read nt

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #108)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:53 PM

172. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:09 PM

111. I find their support unsurprising but bothersome, because of the predictable rightwing outcomes

 

and should she win the presidency and subsequently sign the TPP into law, find another country to needlessly bomb the bejesus out of, ramp up the NSA spying, droning, etc, it may well be time to subordinate the common ground we share to the inhumanity against humans they so gleefully facilitated, and to hold them in much the same regard as their only slightly more shameless rightwing cousins in the repub party. Good cops and bad cops are both still cops pursuing their interests, not ours/yours.

Their "pragmatism" increasingly makes the concept and claims of having principles laughable, and it narrows the gulf between the lesser and greater evil.

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #111)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:57 PM

173. Very interesting.

Thank you for raising several important points.

I believe that the DU community should, for example, have a serious talk about the definition and history of "neoconservatism." For it is not rooted in the republican party, even though the republican version has bloomed into a poison flower, that demands on-going war in the Middle East.

The Democratic Party's version of neoconservative is incapable of a just, non-violent policy in the Middle East. And we would be foolish, indeed, to imagine that we can achieve social justice domestically, with a violent foreign policy. That simply cannot happen.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #173)

Mon Feb 22, 2016, 11:50 AM

200. that is all so true

 

for most of my adult life I've seen myself as a citizen of the planet first, this country second. The demands of empire -- do as we say, not as we do -- sets a confusing/hypocritical example for the citizenry because it comes in conflict with things like "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." http://shaungroves.com/2014/01/martin-luther-king-quote-injustice-anywhere-is-a-threat-justice-everywhere/ they simultaneously pretend to champion.

In an ideal world, "American exceptionalism" woulda been killed and buried by the historical record associated with our pursuit of our collective "manifest destiny".

The idea of Manifest Destiny was also behind American political actions overseas. Although the term ceased to be used in a political context in the early twentieth century, the far-reaching impact of Manifest Destiny was clear. A section of the Manifest Destiny editorial reminded Americans that they were uniquely positioned to spread democracy throughout the world, and this concept clearly played a role in twentieth century American foreign policy. Many historians use the term “Manifest Destiny” to refer to the period in American history which was marked by rapid expansion “from sea to shining sea” through annexation of the Western half of the continent. http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-manifest-destiny.htm


I agree 100%. Ending the pursuit and maintenance of empire is every bit as critical to achieving our collective redemption, salvation, and peace at home as ending the "money is speech" doctrine that underlies the death grip moneyed interest have on our power levers...

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)


Response to Sensitive soul (Reply #112)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:58 PM

174. Good morning!

Well, it is actually evening now. Thus, good evening!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:22 PM

113. K&R. Well said.

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Response to Overseas (Reply #113)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:59 PM

175. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:33 PM

117. It also doesn't bother me at all

I see it as a real (as in reality) positive sign that Sanders came from so far behind that we Progressives noticed him long before the complacent media and establishment Democrats did. Also, as a Progressive I have patience since I've been waiting all my life for this. I donated to Sanders again this morning.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #117)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:00 PM

176. Exactly!

It is always a treat to hear from you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 12:35 PM

119. Proud to K & R this post!

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Response to grntuscarora (Reply #119)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:00 PM

177. Thank you!

I'm proud to be on the same team with you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:02 PM

130. Thank you so much for this post, H2O Man!

I was very disappointed, too. Afraid that big names and big Money would Win Ägain.

I have Been waiting for Bernie my entire life. Used to listen to the 'Brunch with Bernie' on Thom Hartmanns show- until they Turned AM760 into a right Wing station.
Te
I do not Support Hillary. We WILL have a female President someday. Just not her.
She Has too Many faults. I do have a problem with a politician who Has amassed $33.1 million.

I agree with Mountain Grammy. Our state of Colorado is Going to be for Bernie.
I don't have any money, but i am Going to phonebank for him.

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Response to blondie58 (Reply #130)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:11 PM

178. Well, thank you!

If I accepted the mainstream's definitions, I would also have viewed yesterday as coming up short. But, then again, if I thought their view accurately defined all possibilities, I would not be supporting the Sanders revolution. But, alas, I've spent my entire life convinced that there is a better way.

And it is so encouraging to hear from people like you and Mountain Granny, sane voices that convince me that we are on the right track.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:39 PM

139. Bernie says he's in it all the way until the convention. Me too!!!!!!!!

 

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #139)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:13 PM

179. Yes!

And from that convention, we're on to the general election.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 01:49 PM

147. Excellent post

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Response to Dem2 (Reply #147)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:13 PM

180. Thanks!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:20 PM

152. Thank you, H20 Man!

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Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #152)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:14 PM

181. Thank you!

Much appreciated!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 02:28 PM

154. I said the same exact thing

In my dreams when I had your writing talent.

Bravo Sir!

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Response to sellitman (Reply #154)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:15 PM

182. Thank you.

And my oldest son said to say thanks, too, as you had him laughing out loud!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 03:08 PM

156. Thank you for this thread, H2O Man

Yesterday on MSNBC Chris Matthews pointed out that workers from four Nevada casinos were given time off to vote in the caucus, and that the voting was conducted publicly - everyone knew how everyone else voted, including the boss. He said that Harry Reid was behind this, and that this casino vote went to Clinton. In other words, the Democratic establishment put a heavy fist on the outcome of this race. Otherwise, Senator Sanders would have won.

This is cheating and worker intimidation. That Senator Sanders came so close to winning in spite of dirty politics is an indication of his strength. This is not over, by a long shot.

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Response to Erda (Reply #156)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:18 PM

183. Thanks.

I've heard a number of similar reports about intimidating tactics. That's unacceptable. I understand that republicans are supposed to vote as the authorities in their party dictate. But that's not what our party is supposed to be all about.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:11 PM

157. Thanks for lending a bit of perspective

 

I really thought Bernie was going to win NV, and was disheartened when he didn't. You've
helped me see the bigger picture, which is encouraging. Thanks for that..

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #157)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:18 PM

184. Thank you.

I'm glad if you found my essay helpful.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:12 PM

158. Thanks for a voice of reason

and balanced perspective. This is only the beginning and everyone needs to take a deep breath.

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Response to Land of Enchantment (Reply #158)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:22 PM

185. You are exactly right.

This is a long contest. We are in very good shape -- much better than our opposition thought was possible last fall. They pretend otherwise, of course.

I think that my experience in over 300 amateur boxing matches taught me that the opposition will often bluff,and pretend that they have things well under control. But, if one is really confident, they don't need to bluff.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:42 PM

159. Measured and well written

I may lean toward Camp Hillary, but I give this a big K&R for civility and grace. Extremely well stated. Good luck.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #159)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:25 PM

186. Thanks, JohnnyRingo!

I really appreciate that. It's important that we recognize that we really are on the same side here. That seems to be getting lost. And that can be really dangerous. Our common enemy is depending on us being divided. If I have anything to do with it, that ain't going to happen.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #186)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:38 PM

194. You certainly have a talent for words.

In this day of internet shortcuts and sloppy prose it's refreshing to see someone who can convey a message that doesn't make one cringe.

I gave up on my grandson when he apparently discovered a fourth version of the word their.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:42 PM

161. No failure here

 

Bernie is competitive. This was a make or break moment for Clinton. Not for Sanders.anyone who looks at 08 has to see a pattern here. We move on to the next contest.

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Response to Bangbangdem (Reply #161)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:25 PM

187. You nailed it!

Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 05:52 PM

162. Great post

Thanks for the great post H20 Man. I actually wasn't despondent about the loss yesterday. It was close considering where we started. Each time out we enlarge the campaign. That's a good thing. I was concerned last night about all of the threads devoted towards trying to get Sanders supporters to whack Delores Huertes and then watching some of them do it. Watching all that play out was rough. Those kind of threads will sadly continue. I'm excited and pumped about Sanders chances. I live in Kentucky and I've been surprised many times by the number of people I encounter who have good things to say about him and that was before he beat Clinton in NH.

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Response to noretreatnosurrender (Reply #162)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:32 PM

188. Thanks!

Kentucky? Interesting: yesterday morning, a friend and I were discussing places we were considering relocating to, in our old age -- which is now. Kentucky was my first choice. The land of Tecumseh has a certain power in its soil and water. Your post is proof .....and reinforces my beliefs.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:44 PM

163. Late Sunday afternoon kick for reflection and peaceful thoughts nt

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Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #163)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:32 PM

189. Thanks again!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #189)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:44 PM

191. We need more of sanity .... when people really thought of things, nature of our discussion

will be different....

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:33 PM

190. I want to thank

everyone who has participated on this OP/thread. It reminds me of DU's "good old days."

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #190)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:30 PM

193. I do miss DU's "good old days."

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #190)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:38 PM

195. Oh boy, the good ole days!

With twin towers a fallin, and bush* looking for WMD's under the rose bush. Are you sure

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Response to nolabels (Reply #195)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 10:20 PM

199. what I miss is the sense of comradely, we had more of rational and thoughtful debate

and not so much in-fight we see now.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:47 PM

197. Every day, more people discover Bernie and what his campaign is about.

Every day, those people who know and understand what he's about like him more.

The pressure is building. Temperatures are rising. And soon, there will be critical mass.


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Response to Octafish (Reply #197)

Mon Feb 22, 2016, 11:57 AM

201. spread the words! talk with friends in crowded coffee shop! visibility is important!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon Feb 22, 2016, 12:05 PM

202. Win or lose, I've found his run inspiring

 

It's still an uphill battle, but it's encouraging to see the response. Makes me inspired to put some work into pushing for more progressive ideals, and needed reforms. My fear of failure has been mostly squashed. Now it's just figuring out what I'm good at and what I can do. What at first seemed overwhelming feels much less so now.

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