2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Five to One, Baby ...."
I am 100% pleased with Bernie Sanderss showing today in Nevada. Obviously, I would have been happier if he had won the contest by a few percentage points. And Id get out of this chair, and dance an Irish jig if he had won by more than 10%. But he did not. So, on one hand, I congratulate the Clinton supporters; on the other hand, in the context of a political insurgency, I know that we have done much better today than necessary, in terms of continuing this struggle.
An insurgency is, of course, a fight against the an established form of government. While throughout my entire adult life, as a registered member of the Democratic Party, I have voted for the Democratic candidate in literally every presidential election. Yet, in these same years, I have witnessed our partys leadership move so far to the right, that many Democratic politicians today that they would have been accurately viewed as conservative republicans in the past.
I believe that the insurgency, which is represented by Bernie Sanders today, is the healthy response to the class warfare that the 1% has systematically engaged in over the past fifty years. In this sense, I am reminded of Minister Malcolm Xs saying that the difference between some Democrats and republicans is the difference between a fox and a wolf. The fox smiles to your face, but attacks you from behind; while the wolf always makes it clear that he is your enemy.
I appreciate that many good people on this forum are happy that Hillary Clinton won todays contest. I know that they are sincere in their belief that Hillary is the better candidate. That they support her does not surprise, nor bother me. We look at pretty much the same facts and circumstances, and come to different conclusions. I like and respect them as much as I did before the 2016 primaries began, last year.
I understand why they assume that todays results would be discouraging for Bernies supporters. Indeed, these results would signify defeat for an establishment candidate. But that is a very different metric, than the one used to measure victory for an insurgency. And since by definition, an insurgency always begins as a minority effort, relatively few people understand the on-going goal of the insurgents efforts.
As a non-violent, pro-constitutional democracy insurgents, we do not need to win every time we engage the opposition. Rather, state-by-state, we are changing the publics perception of the contest . Its not the same as whats happening in the republican primary, for their rebel is a billionaire who requires that his followers NOT think. Our insurgency is rooted in people thinking for themselves.
A clear sign of our success is found when the opposition increases its attacks. In every instance, we should be using each attack as an opportunity to engage in a conversation, both with our opposition, and with the greater public. In order to achieve positive results, we need to remain positive. For we are engaged in a historical struggle, part of a long tradition in this country.
Its related to the great insurgent movements including Gandhis in India, and Kings in the USA. It is in the tradition that the democratically-inspired among the Founding Fathers encouraged. And it ties in with Jim Morrison singing, Five to one, Baby, one in five.
Peace,
H2O Man
retrowire
(10,345 posts)She lost by 22% in NH, we lost by 4% in NV.
I think we're fine.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Indeed, we are fine!
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Make calls... Her vector is headed South... When the word gets out on the cheating and arm twisting that took place in Vegas today then people will start to get the message. Iowa shenanigans was no accident either... The trend will continue...
retrowire
(10,345 posts)I hope we see a good amount of crap to make public.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)A Bernie Saners Presidency would be a giant buzz kill for Wall Street, Big Pharma, the MIC, Health insurance industry... A lot of money and/or opportunity can go to politicians and others who are willing to perform an artful smear to help Hillary. These powers currently run our government and will not go easily, certainly not without a terrible political fight. This is the political revolution!
Bernie has drawn them out and the battle is joined!
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)I tried to see this woman's side but the minute she said we need a woman president.. I already knew what her reason was.... she just wants a female president just to say we have have one.
96
mickeydusk
mickeydusk3 days ago
+BlackLabelSlushie but having a president with a vagina will be so good for women... Why wont u listen to reason ?!?
Darin Brown
Darin Brown2 weeks ago
"Everyone takes money, everyone does it..." No, not everyone does, one in particular isn't doing that. That's the whole point.
47
Jade Brown
Jade Brown2 weeks ago
Still not buying it, you DO NOT take money from Wall Street if you want to fix corruption. This "being complex" argumemt from her supporter is false, and is NOT Progressive.
43
tinfoilhatter
tinfoilhatter2 weeks ago
+Jade Brown clear conflicts of interest,wherever hilary is involed! duh!
5
Caligula Jones
Caligula Jones2 weeks ago
Why do they keep having Clinton supporters on? Isn't there enough of that in the alternate reality of the network news?
18
feralapple
feralapple2 days ago
+SpaceGoat it is not progressive. Voting in a woman solely because she owns female genitalia is sexist and regressive.
I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren for president because she has integrity, her birth canal has nothing to do with anything.
TheUnspokenAlias
TheUnspokenAlias2 weeks ago (edited)
Electing a woman president of the US will be a revolution when said woman will be and feel allowed to express sensitivity instead of behaving like an enraged pitbull, because that day, it will mean the military-industrial complex will have been overturned. Until then, enough with the cheap "woman" card already... as if being a woman meant one is entitled to represent the whole female gender.
"If that's the worst you've got on her..." : as a matter of fact, it isn't : Iraq, Libya, surveillance state... Should we go on ?
"Everyone does it [take fees from multinationals for overpayed speeches]". That other democratic candidate too ?
Voluntary servitude is your problem, Bertha... Back in the days, they called it "the house-nigger complex"... Cheers !
dchill
(38,471 posts)May take a week and it may take longer... "
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)we got the numbers ....
dchill
(38,471 posts)(And our music was wonderful!)
dchill
(38,471 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I'm not the only one who has been listening to the "good stuff" lately -- sometimes really loud.
kentuck
(111,078 posts)Along with the Unknown Soldier...
antigop
(12,778 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)We have to trust in the process to the exact extent required to bring forth our very best efforts. We'll get those numbers.
antigop
(12,778 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)otherwise I am afraid we have Trump.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I think that there is a growing awareness of the rise of fascist tendencies in part of our society. And that is absolutely what this election contest comes down to. The best way to oppose its growth is to be actively engaged in the Sanders's revolutionary movement.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)issues that cross lines with the younger generation, HC and SS. They never 'fought the establishment' so to speak as we did in the 60's or 70's, still they just know things are not right.
Many of our kids grew up not seeing all the divisions along race or gender, for them that is somewhat of a given, and that is fantastic. We need to keep that alive and not forge a division!
Among my kids, one states she could move to another country, a 30 year doc who knows she has abilities that will be welcomed in other countries. I was surprised to hear her say so, but not shocked, she told us that a few weeks when she switched parties and registered as Dem to vote for Sanders in Florida. My son is less on a permanent footing, yet still independent as far as his beliefs. Sometimes they both need some prodding, a parent's work is never done.
GreenEyedLefty
(2,073 posts)We've got the numbers. Gonna win, yeah, we're takin over. C'mon!!
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)going to have a Doors reunion here! I just got back from driving my youngest daughter back to college; that allowed me several hours of The Doors, very loud!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I think it's safe to say that some of the higher-ups in the Clinton campaign recognize what's happening. They will continue to try to spin perception. But more and more people are thinking!
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I am just a little disappointed this evening, but my motor will be up and running again as usual by tomorrow when I wake. Mostly, I feel for Bernie and his wife.
All I can say for now.
Sam
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Even the greatest boxer ever, heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali, took the minute rest period between rounds. We all have to take care of ourselves -- as well as others. Quite often, I find that the best people focus on others' needs, to an extent they ignore their own. So I'm really glad to read that you are relaxing tonight, resting up for tomorrow!
malthaussen
(17,186 posts)... and speaking of the Sweet Science, are you familiar with the bare-knuckle roots of championship boxing in the 18th century? Fascinating stuff, there. The rules were quite different then. And the punishment the contestants took... genuinely horrifying. Among the things I find most gruesome is that a "round" could last an hour, and sometimes did.
It was pretty crooked, too, as the great fight between Tom Molineaux and Tom Cribb shows.
-- Mal
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)And yeah, the old do get older... I ARE one, but with age comes WISDOM! Heh, heh.
I will be sure to help keep your's going. And I agree 100% with you about wisdom.
(My children tell me that I'm so old, that I should be on the cover of National Geographic!)
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)so I think I better get up while I can. My back is killing me! LOL!
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I was feeling quite despondent about the caucus results; but, of course, you are right.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I'm really glad if my OP assisted in even a small way of helping you put today's events into proper context. We are in good shape.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)I agree, I'm pretty pleased too. Just very aware of how badly the machine wants to prevent a Sanders win at all costs. But I do also believe support for him is growing.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)As support among citizens increases, the powers-that-be will all try to convince us that it's hopeless, and other lies. Baloney.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)I salute you with this song tonight
Listening (Honor Song) - John Trudell - Tribal Voices
Good night....
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I never met John, but a lot of my friends knew him well. There's less of them alive these days. But there's a big segment of this Young Generation, who have been called forth, and are answering that call in the same spirit.
"It's a 500-year tradition that you can't break." -- great line
Thank you so much!
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)It is in the album called "Madness & The Moremes"
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)extraordinary man. I think it's important that our side listen to his music.
sorechasm
(631 posts)'We are the spirit of natural light that is forever.'
No need to panic.
Thank you kgnu_fan.
Also a special thank you to H20 man for your words of wisdom.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)That is the perfect answer! We should all be contributing; if people can't afford to donate money right now, their contribution of time and energy is equally important. Each according to their ability. Thank you very much!
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)PS: You were one that received one of my Valentine hearts, for your contributions to DU over the years. Just FYI.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Thank you. I really appreciate that, much more than you might know.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
..cash tonight.
Obama lost NV by 6 points in 2008.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I appreciate your mentioning these things -- glad you donated, and for the '08 reminder!
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Additionally he raised almost more than twice what she raised in the last month, says National Public Radio.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I know a lot of people who have donated funds today. Man! I love it!
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)Donate and remember Nevada has a large LDS population, even the democratic LDS tends to be very conservative.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)forward really hard, but also celebrate these achievements, I think.
Your mention of our party going rightward..in a nutshell, it's the money that does that.
Armstead wrote a heartfelt OP this evening about the frustrations we see in the establishment.
We'll get there..in solidarity for the win.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)We should definitely be celebrating tonight. We have every reason to be!
And you are correct: money is destroying our system.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)despite what the so called media whores are yammering about. And as far as turn out,geez Louise,this is Nevada,people here work 2 jobs 7days a week. And in saying that,have been doing this caucus thing for more the fifty years and today was kick ass and I give all those folks who did make it to the most important thing in these United States. They got involved,and when I talked to many,it was the enthusiasm for being involved again or they never did this type of thing.
Yes,we lost by 4 points,but,we are more viable now than ever. This race is way to close to through in the towel. Watch and see,there are so many issues on the Nations Stage and got a hunch some one is going to do a gaff,and then watch the circus begin.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I agree about the up-coming gaff. Good call.
And I'm pleased that Jeb can now spend more time with his family. I think his dismal, pathetic campaign has been a serious disappointment -- and wake up call -- for the republican elders.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Appears Mr. Sanders scored big time. Just read a blurb about Clark County and the Reid/Culinary tie-up giving Hillary the over the top win. What appears is this,you and I are seeing a wave coming. If the Northern Part of Nevada did go heavy Sanders,got a hunch California is going to be the real prize and I'll give it Bernie 60 clinton 40 and we have a brokered convention.
Not counting Bush out,still say he will be the draft candidate in the Rethugs Brokered Convention. We are living in a great new time,got my seat belt cinched and going really watch this thing play out.
As for the gaffe,ego's have a way of biting one in the Ass,if you know way I mean.
malthaussen
(17,186 posts)In that event, the politician with the connections gets the win, and that is not Bernie Sanders. That is what I see happening, the race will continue to be close, the popular voice will be with Mr Sanders, and the authorities will select Mrs Clinton. Which may just perpetuate a constitutional crisis.
-- Mal
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)one or more Candidate will support a consensus Candidate with the persons exiting get some type of parachute for their support. Looking for the DNC to start following the lead of R.T. Ryback and Debbie Downer will go quiet. This is our Election to lose,and after yesterday,you know dam well there will be a major reshuffling at DNC headquarters.
We need to recapture the Senate,the House is lost until 2020 and redistricting,which means we need a Centrist to Left leaning Jurist on the Supreme Court to change voter repression laws as well as Citizen United.
lmbradford
(517 posts)Only delegates matter and right now they are tied at 51 when seperating out the supers until the convention.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Glad to be on the same team!
Lucky Luciano
(11,253 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)to The Doors quite a bit recently. Great music! And it still inspires mood!
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)I think Colorado will go for Bernie. Been getting a lot of positive feedback.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I am glad to hear that. It can be difficult to confront the machine,in its various manifestations. But it can be accomplished. Good people can get together and reason for themselves.
I love that when our opposition tries to frame it that "Bernie's supporters want 'free stuff'," our side is clarifying that we actually want our tax dollars to be spent wisely, investing in human beings, not war.
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)The endless cycle of imperialism, intervention and aggression must be stopped. We've been at it in varying degrees always, but especially since WWII, and it's not working. Like you said, I want my tax dollars invested in human beings, not war.
tommcc99
(48 posts)Spring Valley High School
Precinct 6674 37/30 for Bernie
I am going to be generous in assuming today's mess was not calculated.
Today's caucus was a mess and I am pretty sure that worked in Clinton's favor. Registration was disorganized and people were sent from line to line and in and out of rooms with conflicting instructions. Once the caucus started it was clear the person running our precinct had no idea what he was doing. After doing a headcount he dismissed the room without siging up delegates. Most people there did not know the process and started to leave. Fortunately a few of us knew that we were actually supposed to elect delegates and have them complete delegate cards so they can attend the next caucus in April. We got that completed and also signed up alternated delegates. So I guess we got the job done in our precinct.
But it makes me wonder how many others were so FUBAR that people came and left without their presence being accounted for. The Democratic Party of Nevada should be ashamed.
Rant done.
The OP has written eloquently and with wisdom. We are on the march. We have momentum (Bernie was down 25% in Nevada 4 weeks ago and only down by 5% today). If we keep fighting. We will win.
Peace and keep on keeping on.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I agree with you ....I've heard things from associates today that have me questioning some questionable activities in Nevada. I'm not comfortable with people who shrug their shoulders, and attribute it to the nature of politics .....though they are not as cowardly to those republicans who lie about voters to try to suppress the vote, or Democrats who bury their heads in the sand.
Your response reminded me of something from the 2004 presidential contest. It's something that I was connected, though indirectly, to. I wrote on DU about it then, but will address it again in an OP. It's something that both the Sanders and Clinton campaigns should be interested in. So thank you, again!
tommcc99
(48 posts)Nevada Dem's and Independents, not so much.
Same as it ever was - sometimes those in power want to stay in power at any cost.
We will be better prepared for the the next caucus in April and then the state in May... Primary would be so much easier and maybe that's the point. (cynicism)
appalachiablue
(41,123 posts)From another post Harry Reid has a lot of influence in the state of course.
Thanks for relaying some on the ground reality.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)in Sanders had won.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)As noted, I said I am "100% pleased." Then, I noted i might have been "happier" .....
My range of feelings and emotions is not restricted. I've never done "rigid" well.
Have a great night, and a better tomorrow!
lasttrip
(1,013 posts)Gotta get together one more time.
Peace.
LT
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)(But not in Miami. That song can bring out the worst in the blue meanies in Miami.)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I feel better every time I talk with you, so if I returned the favor, that's great!
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)K&R
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)We are on our way to victory. What is interesting is that our goal is to share the bounty with others .....definitely with our Sisters and Brothers who currently support Hillary Clinton .....but also with our neighbors who have been tricked into supporting republicans who actually hold them in utter contempt.
frylock
(34,825 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I'm honored to be on the same team with you. I always admire your contributions to the DU community!
frylock
(34,825 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)californiabernin
(421 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)is the fact that the turn out by the repugs is great,
while ours is far less than hoped for.
The repugs are totally energized, while we
fizzle.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)That's definitely an important issue. And it's one that each one of us needs to work on turning around. And that's key .....for there has never, in human history, been any important struggles that have not contained disappointments. None. In every important advance towards social justice, it's been because of ordinary people doing extraordinary things. Today, that includes you and I, and everyone here in the DU community.
onecaliberal
(32,821 posts)I'm stoked, donated again earlier today.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I was watching the returns with my cousin yesterday. He was very focused on if we would come out a couple points ahead, or behind. I noted exactly what you stated here. Then he understood the true significance.
Thanks!
ngGale
(2,080 posts)this thread. So very inspirational...
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)for participating in this thread, for it is the DU community's participation that makes it special.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)activists and then calling them liars? or just bitching about the caucus and saying it is crooked be cause your team didn't prepare well?
Yeah, remaining positive would have been a good idea, about two tons of sour grapes ago.
840high
(17,196 posts)had to tell them 3 times before they changed his vote from Hillary to Bernie. How many went unnoticed?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)like a suspicious story from a flakey person looking for attention. Is this another tweet story?
840high
(17,196 posts)posted here on DU to the story.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)We are all in this, together. Those "sour grapes" are to be avoided, for they are the poison fruits of Kundalini. They keep people unconscious.
True consciousness, of course, is not a dialogue with "self," but an actual, obtainable state in which we love the world. May we all share in its fruits.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)BIG wins for Clinton and Trump...Trump by 10, HRC by 5...guess its all in the algebra or whatever...
it's going to be a long haul, but the message works...we just have to keep pushing...
As Minister Malcolm X noted, if we believe the media, we will be carrying umbrellas on sunny days, and getting soaked on rainy days. And a lot of the public is tiring of getting soaked.
blm
(113,042 posts)I, too, am not surprised, nor bothered, even though I was probably HRC's toughest DU critic for most of my years here. Most of her supporters have been our compatriots for over a decade and we know that NONE of us would abandon our mutual goals over a heated primary.
My agenda now is all about GOTV and my posts are based in that.
Though I'm not convinced that I really am a "smart guy," I play one on DU. (grin)
A few years back, after being interviewed by some regional journalists, one young reporter said to the others, "Wow, that's the smartest person I've ever met!" I told my Clan Mother that I was uncomfortable with that, because all I had really done was shared the knowledge that truly intelligent people had taught me. I offered nothing original. She said, "Well, that's true. But then you have to ask, who taught them?"
Before Chief Waterman passed, he instructed me on my duties. I'm happy that people here appreciate the things I add. But I keep in mind that it's not about me.
blm
(113,042 posts)Living in a purple state that is now solidly red thanks to gerrymandering, GOTV has become CRUCIAL. We have to get 2 votes to every one of theirs just to break even.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)Thank you for it. Helps to keep one's perspective. Remember what Bernie said:
"Do not underestimate me."
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Thank you for reminding us of that!
Moral Compass
(1,517 posts)Well said.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Ccarmona
(1,180 posts)Is a fraud for not reflecting the true pulse of the Nevada Democratic Party members What 11-12 thousand people "voted". In S Carolina's primary 600 -700,000 voted.
I have a top donater NV progressive friend who played golf Saturday rather than deal with the Caucus bullshit.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I agree 100%.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I will always remember that you were among the first to make me feel welcome here, when I joined in 2003.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)It is gaining momentum. And that's a good thing.
Pauldg47
(640 posts)...talk to union leaders to not endorse anyone? So the Latin American workers were not told who to vote for? For Christ sake many didn't know who Bernie was........then culinary union leaders were bought out I bet you by Hillary banker thugs. If Bernie wins, establishment reps better watch their backs next election!!!
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I was talking to an associate yesterday, a retired member of a large carpenters' union. Their leadership has endorsed Clinton, without asking any input from the membership.
My associate reviewed some numbers with me. Less than 10% of the members appear firmly or likely to support Hillary. The rest is evenly divided between those who support Bernie, and those who mistakenly support Trump. He explained that the Trumpets are generally backwards-thinking, sexists who resent women in power in genera, and who despise the image of Hillary that is inaccurate.
Hence, we focused upon strategies to turn the Trump supporters around. We are doing it, one person at a time. But it is definitely working. Thus far, the most common feature is their saying Bernie supporters want "free stuff," which we counter with, "Actually, we want you to have a say in how your tax dollars are being spent. Would you rather invest in your children, nieces, and nephews' future, or give your hard-earned money to billionaires?" It has proven effective.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Keep on fighting the Good Fight!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I'm not sure. Just my opinion, but the delegate count seems to favor the establishment. Shocking, I know!
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)with county and state voting still to come.
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/NV-D
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)Bernie has in fact changed the dialog.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)That makes me happy to hear.
I've been on the telephone a lot this morning. And a number of friends and associates who found yesterday's results depressing are coming to see it for what it actually is -- good news. Very good news, indeed.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)But, that's okay.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)one of my favorite Thomas Jefferson photos, in which he's wearing a "The Doors" T-shirt. It's the photo that Jon Capehart is current disputing -- he insists it was a Grateful Dead T-shirt. But it wasn't. I was at the concert ......
Thanks!
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts). . . and all the children are insane . . . all the children are insane . . .
ms liberty
(8,572 posts)Can't sleep. Feeling a bit discouraged at the consolidation of power by the establishment's "corporate partners" - they're not even being covert about it anymore. They own it all, both parties, and they don't care that we see it. The open disdain for the needs of the people will I hope be their downfall.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)That disdain is currently turning to anxiety, as more and more people are waking up to their self-worth. This is a huge struggle. But we will win.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick the Latino vote, every time. The Latino vote is going to be extremely important in upcoming delegate heavy states.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)The top dogs of the opposition recognize this, too.
Thank you.
femmedem
(8,201 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Proud to serve on the same team with you!
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)something so unthinkable as early as 4 years ago.
We can dare to dream big regardless of the loud angry chorus of the powerful proclaiming "NO!". I've been quite moved at how quickly the political trajectory has changed. From the early days of Occupy to present - these ideas have caught the passions of a whole new generation and it's so inspiring to see. The rhizomes are connecting under the soil.
*This* is how compromises are made - you aim big and negotiate from there - not give your weakest position and cave in from there. This Bernie Sanders is a smart man.
OOf - I haven't had any coffee yet, so I'm just babbling.
Thank you for your essay. It's inspiring as ever.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)In his final years of life, Rubin would get his college & university audiences to join him in saying -- loudly -- "Yes!" He said that we need to stop listening to those who insist, "No!"
It sounds simply. The Truth often is.
Mbrow
(1,090 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Agony
(2,605 posts)I think that is what you are saying, figuratively of course.
Ciao,
Agony
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)There's more to the picture, than meets the eye .....
Ciao, my Friend.
rosesaylavee
(12,126 posts)I agree with that assessment and have had plenty of moments this past year wondering why in the world do I belong to this Party at all.
Last night joined with others to protest a County Democratic Dinner in the next county over to the East of where I live as one of it's members is the sole remaining Democrat in our State supporting the TPP.
We stood on the parkway across the street from the banquet hall with our signs and I am sure our chants were lost in the noise from the highway behind us and the constant wind. But all attending had to drive by us to get into the parking lot -- and many stood in the lobby peering out at us when they should have been in the room having their cocktails. So our presence was at least a topic of conversation -- something that was definitely not on the original agenda for the evening.
What I thought was more interesting, is that about 20 people attending the banquet came out over the course of the hour and half we were there to talk to us, to tell us they were supporting what we were doing, that they didn't know why this man was supporting TPP either. One man came out to tell us he was a no-show, others came out and were surprised to hear he wasn't showing up but assured us they would put the photos on Facebook and tag him so he knew we were there. Met a few who came out as they were running for Congress in my district to the west and another to the north- both districts I lobby with others to put a price on carbon. They were interested in hearing what I had to say and they will be getting more information on that today.
I told a couple of the women who came out that it was a heck of thing to have to picket your own Party and they looked stunned -- but replied that yes, they can understand that and would tell the man who's the last hold out in the state that that was said.
As it has been stated here on this board before... and I think you have said this many times ... it's important to get off DU and get your body engaged in your community, talk with others, communicate your concerns. I would say that is one thing I have learned from being on this board for 10 years. This was organized by a woman I have known for about 20 years -- she sent an email around and made personal calls to get people to commit to show up -- and said to keep it quiet so this guy didn't hear ahead of time that we were going to be there. Party members who came out to talk with us first thought it had been MoveOn who had organized this -- I wanted to say, 'No, this was Mary'.
I think it was my favorite protest I have attended ever. I think the message was delivered - several ways.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Your post, and your action, really makes me happy. Thank you so much. That's it. That's really what this is all about.
mak3cats
(1,573 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Tab
(11,093 posts)Response to Tab (Reply #101)
Sensitive soul This message was self-deleted by its author.
Tab
(11,093 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)Thanks for the thread, H2O Man.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)malthaussen
(17,186 posts)... some of our fellow DUers appear to have the patience and attention span of toddlers, which is quite discouraging. Even the vitriol poured out in dispute is more tolerable, as it can at least be a sign of honest passion, but when a close contest is "won" by a whisker and the partisans gloat, it wounds my spirit. Mind you, that's a personal quirk, I tend to be uncompetitive and don't like that conduct after a baseball game, much less a caucus.
The situation appears to be in balance, with the tides of enthusiasm lapping the shore, but not quite being enough to overcome inertia. This is both good and bad. Good, because as you say, the measure of an insurgency is different from the measure of the Establishment. But what happens to all the enthusiasm if Mr Sanders loses? Mature voters who are realists will vote for Mrs Clinton, but her appeal is one of damage control, and that inspires no poetry. The worry for me is that the voters will stay away in droves if Mrs Clinton is the candidate. Meanwhile, Mr Trump arouses terrific enthusiasm among the mean-spirited third of the population. They will assuredly vote, the more so as the GOP is well-disciplined and rarely shows inability to muster sufficient votes to elect their candidate. Mr Obama was able to defeat this capacity, but Mr Obama was also able to arouse great enthusiasm. I doubt many people voted for him solely because the alternative was unthinkable, they voted for him because they genuinely wanted him in the White House. Does Mrs Clinton have the same appeal?
Imagine if Mr Sanders were given the support and encouragement of the party apparatus. The Democrats would have a candidate whose appeal is great across all classes. But of course, an insurgent can never hope for such support. Mr Sanders can only win if the American people force the Democratic Party to accept him, and as yet there is no sign that the Party does so, regardless of the feelings of the people. And although Mr Sanders is melting away much of Mrs Clinton's support, as yet it is not sufficient to cause the Party to embrace Mr Sanders.
-- Mal
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I find myself looking forward to one day sitting down and talking with you for hours and hours. This post, for example, has over a dozen points worthy of detailed discussion. And it serves as a powerful example of what level of discussion is possible -- but so often avoided -- today, even on this forum.
We need to harness the energy that is moving the Sanders revolution forward. Indeed, it needs to be applied at all levels of society, in order to achieve the necessary results. Now, at my age, I'd like to be able to honestly say that I'm no longer competitive. And, in most areas of life, I am not the same as I was, let's say back when I was an amateur boxer. But there are some contests that I still refuse to lose at.
The truth is, of course, that I do not have the ability to determine the outcome of the current struggle. But I can do my best. And so that is what I focus on.
As always, your contributions are a high point on this forum.
malthaussen
(17,186 posts)There are a few people here that I would love to sit down and change the world with, and you're one of them.
The good news, as I see it, is that momentum is cumulative. As Mr Sanders's supporters on the ground spread the message, greater percentages of the "Who's Bernie" crowd will come over. Mrs Clinton does not have that advantage: we've known her for years, and the only question with her is which way the wind is blowing today. So it is really a race against time, the question being if the message can be internalized before the various votes.
It would be exciting, even, if it weren't so important.
-- Mal
PWPippin
(213 posts)I went to bed feeling despondent and woke up to your post. Now, I feel hopeful and energized. With your wise words and measured response, you have helped to turn this little Bernie ship back on course. As many have said, we can measure our progress partly by the negative actions and reactions from the Clinton campaign. You are a wonderful advocate for the positive energy and commitment to just causes that Bernie exhibits.
And I meant to thank you, too, for your gracious and well thought out responses to all who have replied to your uplifting post. So, thank you, again.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I am glad if my essay here helped to make you feel better about yesterday's events. That really makes it worthwhile for me. I really appreciate that you have taken the time to tellme!
It's definitely my pleasure to have the opportunity to respond to those who take the time to encourage me here. At this point in my long life, I attempt to be a hermit. One of my favorite activities in life these days is to sit for long hours, beside my pond, and soak in the beauty of the Natural World. I consider DU to be another pond that I have the opportunity to participate in. I love the people here.
Again, thank you very much. Your kind words mean the world tome.
PWPippin
(213 posts)I find my center with my two dogs, Audrey and Daphne. They live life in the moment, carry no grudges and enjoy simple pleasures. We take long walks in the woods, beaches and fields near our home and I try to see the world through their eyes. I think their noses take in more than I can handle. Enjoy your solitude.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)Though I'm sure they will.
It will be interesting to see the obfuscation and justification that comes out of that camp.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)A few of my good friends who are currently supporting Hillary have responded here. But I do find it odd that most of the Hillary supporters avoid reading and responding to my OPs. In fact, I mentioned that to my oldest son this morning. He said that normal people do not like to argue with me. He may have a point .....but I don't think that "normal" people inhabit the DU community -- extraordinary people do. More, I'm not looking to "argue." I would hope to discuss issues ....maybe even debate issues. But I keep in mind that all the pro-Clinton people on DU -- including a handful that I can't honestly say that I like -- are Good People, who really want the best for our society.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)and should she win the presidency and subsequently sign the TPP into law, find another country to needlessly bomb the bejesus out of, ramp up the NSA spying, droning, etc, it may well be time to subordinate the common ground we share to the inhumanity against humans they so gleefully facilitated, and to hold them in much the same regard as their only slightly more shameless rightwing cousins in the repub party. Good cops and bad cops are both still cops pursuing their interests, not ours/yours.
Their "pragmatism" increasingly makes the concept and claims of having principles laughable, and it narrows the gulf between the lesser and greater evil.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Thank you for raising several important points.
I believe that the DU community should, for example, have a serious talk about the definition and history of "neoconservatism." For it is not rooted in the republican party, even though the republican version has bloomed into a poison flower, that demands on-going war in the Middle East.
The Democratic Party's version of neoconservative is incapable of a just, non-violent policy in the Middle East. And we would be foolish, indeed, to imagine that we can achieve social justice domestically, with a violent foreign policy. That simply cannot happen.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)for most of my adult life I've seen myself as a citizen of the planet first, this country second. The demands of empire -- do as we say, not as we do -- sets a confusing/hypocritical example for the citizenry because it comes in conflict with things like "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." http://shaungroves.com/2014/01/martin-luther-king-quote-injustice-anywhere-is-a-threat-justice-everywhere/ they simultaneously pretend to champion.
In an ideal world, "American exceptionalism" woulda been killed and buried by the historical record associated with our pursuit of our collective "manifest destiny".
The idea of Manifest Destiny was also behind American political actions overseas. Although the term ceased to be used in a political context in the early twentieth century, the far-reaching impact of Manifest Destiny was clear. A section of the Manifest Destiny editorial reminded Americans that they were uniquely positioned to spread democracy throughout the world, and this concept clearly played a role in twentieth century American foreign policy. Many historians use the term Manifest Destiny to refer to the period in American history which was marked by rapid expansion from sea to shining sea through annexation of the Western half of the continent. http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-manifest-destiny.htm
I agree 100%. Ending the pursuit and maintenance of empire is every bit as critical to achieving our collective redemption, salvation, and peace at home as ending the "money is speech" doctrine that underlies the death grip moneyed interest have on our power levers...
Response to H2O Man (Original post)
Sensitive soul This message was self-deleted by its author.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Well, it is actually evening now. Thus, good evening!
Overseas
(12,121 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)I see it as a real (as in reality) positive sign that Sanders came from so far behind that we Progressives noticed him long before the complacent media and establishment Democrats did. Also, as a Progressive I have patience since I've been waiting all my life for this. I donated to Sanders again this morning.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)It is always a treat to hear from you!
grntuscarora
(1,249 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I'm proud to be on the same team with you!
blondie58
(2,570 posts)I was very disappointed, too. Afraid that big names and big Money would Win Ägain.
I have Been waiting for Bernie my entire life. Used to listen to the 'Brunch with Bernie' on Thom Hartmanns show- until they Turned AM760 into a right Wing station.
Te
I do not Support Hillary. We WILL have a female President someday. Just not her.
She Has too Many faults. I do have a problem with a politician who Has amassed $33.1 million.
I agree with Mountain Grammy. Our state of Colorado is Going to be for Bernie.
I don't have any money, but i am Going to phonebank for him.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)If I accepted the mainstream's definitions, I would also have viewed yesterday as coming up short. But, then again, if I thought their view accurately defined all possibilities, I would not be supporting the Sanders revolution. But, alas, I've spent my entire life convinced that there is a better way.
And it is so encouraging to hear from people like you and Mountain Granny, sane voices that convince me that we are on the right track.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)And from that convention, we're on to the general election.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Much appreciated!
sellitman
(11,606 posts)In my dreams when I had your writing talent.
Bravo Sir!
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)And my oldest son said to say thanks, too, as you had him laughing out loud!
Erda
(107 posts)Yesterday on MSNBC Chris Matthews pointed out that workers from four Nevada casinos were given time off to vote in the caucus, and that the voting was conducted publicly - everyone knew how everyone else voted, including the boss. He said that Harry Reid was behind this, and that this casino vote went to Clinton. In other words, the Democratic establishment put a heavy fist on the outcome of this race. Otherwise, Senator Sanders would have won.
This is cheating and worker intimidation. That Senator Sanders came so close to winning in spite of dirty politics is an indication of his strength. This is not over, by a long shot.
I've heard a number of similar reports about intimidating tactics. That's unacceptable. I understand that republicans are supposed to vote as the authorities in their party dictate. But that's not what our party is supposed to be all about.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I really thought Bernie was going to win NV, and was disheartened when he didn't. You've
helped me see the bigger picture, which is encouraging. Thanks for that..
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I'm glad if you found my essay helpful.
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)and balanced perspective. This is only the beginning and everyone needs to take a deep breath.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)This is a long contest. We are in very good shape -- much better than our opposition thought was possible last fall. They pretend otherwise, of course.
I think that my experience in over 300 amateur boxing matches taught me that the opposition will often bluff,and pretend that they have things well under control. But, if one is really confident, they don't need to bluff.
JohnnyRingo
(18,624 posts)I may lean toward Camp Hillary, but I give this a big K&R for civility and grace. Extremely well stated. Good luck.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)I really appreciate that. It's important that we recognize that we really are on the same side here. That seems to be getting lost. And that can be really dangerous. Our common enemy is depending on us being divided. If I have anything to do with it, that ain't going to happen.
JohnnyRingo
(18,624 posts)In this day of internet shortcuts and sloppy prose it's refreshing to see someone who can convey a message that doesn't make one cringe.
I gave up on my grandson when he apparently discovered a fourth version of the word their.
Bangbangdem
(140 posts)Bernie is competitive. This was a make or break moment for Clinton. Not for Sanders.anyone who looks at 08 has to see a pattern here. We move on to the next contest.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Thank you!
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Thanks for the great post H20 Man. I actually wasn't despondent about the loss yesterday. It was close considering where we started. Each time out we enlarge the campaign. That's a good thing. I was concerned last night about all of the threads devoted towards trying to get Sanders supporters to whack Delores Huertes and then watching some of them do it. Watching all that play out was rough. Those kind of threads will sadly continue. I'm excited and pumped about Sanders chances. I live in Kentucky and I've been surprised many times by the number of people I encounter who have good things to say about him and that was before he beat Clinton in NH.
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)Kentucky? Interesting: yesterday morning, a friend and I were discussing places we were considering relocating to, in our old age -- which is now. Kentucky was my first choice. The land of Tecumseh has a certain power in its soil and water. Your post is proof .....and reinforces my beliefs.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)H2O Man
(73,534 posts)kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)will be different....
H2O Man
(73,534 posts)everyone who has participated on this OP/thread. It reminds me of DU's "good old days."
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)With twin towers a fallin, and bush* looking for WMD's under the rose bush. Are you sure
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)and not so much in-fight we see now.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Every day, those people who know and understand what he's about like him more.
The pressure is building. Temperatures are rising. And soon, there will be critical mass.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)It's still an uphill battle, but it's encouraging to see the response. Makes me inspired to put some work into pushing for more progressive ideals, and needed reforms. My fear of failure has been mostly squashed. Now it's just figuring out what I'm good at and what I can do. What at first seemed overwhelming feels much less so now.