If Clinton prevails in the Democratic Primary, Bernie’s supporters won’t necessarily flock to her

[Algernon Moncrieff]

LINK:By Mike Weishar on February 22, 2016

Some people have claimed that if Hillary beats out Bernie for the nomination, progressives will stay home and leave Clinton out to dry. That’s possible, there are liberals who outright despise the Clintons, but this year, the same can be said for Trump. There are many conservatives who simply won’t vote for a guy who supports Planned Parenthood and a single payer health system.

That being said, Trump will certainly steal Bernie’s voters away from Clinton in the general election. There is no question. Probably more than any other party has taken from another in a while. Bigots/racists actually come from all political persuasions (some more than others) and in America, they are plentiful.

Look at Saturday’s example of Bernie supporters yelling “English only” at labor leader and Spanish interpreter Dolores Huerta. If people like that are supporting Sanders, they’ll have no trouble going to the other side after a Hillary victory.

Will these idiots be enough to eventually put Trump over the top? Who can say? What is certain is that no one has any idea what’s going to happen this year and anyone who says otherwise is a bigger liar than Ted Cruz.

"Quiet Mike" describes himself as "Progressive, Liberal, Informative and Honest'" I found the Sanders-to-Trump switch to be a somewhat startling take from someone that is arguing in the same piece that Sanders is the more electable candidate.

[NurseJackie]

1. The smart ones will.

[NWCorona]

11. I think the smart ones will stay home.

I can't see how Hillary or the DNC will get more the 40% of Bernie's supporter's after all of the dirty tricks

[NurseJackie]

18. You're describing the ones who will be feeling sorry for themselves, and ...

... who may be feeling that it's more important to indulge their "vanity" and get "revenge". Their threats are little more than an attempt to get attention and to feel as though they have control over something they actually have no control over.

That's not "smart" ... that's selfish.

Fortunately, in real life (outside of those who gather at this watering-hole or who reside in this enclosed ecosystem) the people who feel this way exist in much smaller percentages than you imagine.

Go, Hillary! We love you!

[BlueMTexpat]

28. +1! eom

[cali]

48. Hilly can't won without the very people she's been demonizing

Good luck with that!

Thanks for giving us a nominee who cannot win.


Great job, Hillarians!

[NWCorona]

96. Agreed!

[daleanime]

105. They haven't succeeded yet.....

[LovingA2andMI]

131. And The Jury Says:

On Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:37 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hilly can't won without the very people she's been demonizing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1307134

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Can we stop calling each other names? This is not debate this is apparently 3rd grade, we've been hiding "Bernie Bro" (as we should) we should also hide "Hillarians". Let's cut the crap and act like adults please.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Feb 22, 2016, 09:45 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: When I see Bernie Bros hidden every time, I'll consider hiding Hillarians (which, btw, is a much less offensive term than Bernie Bros).
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: When It Is Over The Top For A Commentator To State What Their OPINION Is On A OPINION Board? Leave It!
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Let's behave here. Can't we all just get along?
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[MoonRiver]

61. Only dirty tricks I've seen have been done by Bernie's camp.

And, fyi, most of don't trust people who proclaim their allegiance to allowing Repubs to take over the White House. Just saying.

[NWCorona]

85. That's your opinion I just think differently

[MoonRiver]

125. This is true.

[frylock]

114. Examples kplzthx?

[mother earth]

135. Exactly. The big "game" is being revealed. Personally, it's bought & paid for at this

point. They'll key in the votes for the queen...they are using all of Karl Rove's tactics.

[NWCorona]

136. And that won't be lost on Bernie's supporter's

[earthside]

15. The 'smart ones' will stay home or not vote for president.

There are solid, deep reasons most Sanders supporters are for him -- it is all about fighting against entrenched, establishment, corporate politics and government.

They will either stay home, not vote in the presidential race if Sanders is not the Democrat's nominee, or vote third party.

I don't think fear is going to have as much impact this time. Speaking for myself, I am sick and tired of being told I have to vote for the Democrat because I should be so afraid of the Repuglican.

Maybe it is time for some accountability for the Democratic Party if it keeps going in the direction of giving us more Repuglican-lite corporate candidates.

I am for Sanders because I am not going to be suckered into being afraid anymore.

[global1]

41. The Millennial Vote Will Be In Peril...

The Millenials are looking to Bernie to protect their futures. Many have felt their vote doesn't count but Bernie's talk about 'a political revolution' has captured their support. If the Millenials feel that The Establishment is stacking the deck against Bernie - that will quell their enthusiasm and will reinforce their original pre-Bernie thoughts - that their vote really doesn't count. They will wind up sitting the election out and we will wind up with a Repug president. Couple that with the fact that many have deep seated feelings against the Clinton's and question Hillary's trustworthiness - when the Dems don't turn out in force - we lose.

This is not rocket science here. I just can't fathom why the Dem establishment can't see that this is what will happen.

[6chars]

45. Just like the smart ones voted for Nader

because there was no difference between Gore and Bush.

[HooptieWagon]

151. 13% of Dems voted for Bush, 1% for Nader.

It was the RW of the Party that cost Gore the election, not the left.

[DrDan]

115. more proof that the cult of personality is the dominating force

[CoffeeCat]

24. Since when is the electorate "smart"?

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Seriously? Have you met the average voter?

America has finally reached a tipping point and they are done with establishment politics, politicians that lie to them and all of the other malarkey. People are suffering as a direct result of our politicians failing us--as they remain in bed with powerful corporate interests. That includes all people--of varying ranges of intelligence, income levels and political viewpoints.

2016 will be the year that America elects an outsider. There is lukewarm support for establishment baloney; but people who want someone outside of the establishment are on fire to kick out the corruption.

Many of these people are intelligent, thoughtful people who are paying attention. They're educated and they "get it." However, a good number of them are not so smart. Some of them are racist. Some of them are scapegoatting minorities and other people who are not at fault. When you put these two factions together (educated people who are sick of the establishment and idiots who are sick of the establishment), there's your majority.

That's who will elect the next President.

People who float long with their heads up their asses, who are completely ignoring the fact that the electorate is pissed and no longer buying the slop that establishment politicians are selling--are in for a rude awakening.

They'll be shocked that Trump will be elected. I sure as hell won't!

[TBF]

39. +1000 nt

[CBGLuthier]

52. Nope, not all of us.

Now make some nasty comment about my intelligence because I don't support your candidate.

[frylock]

113. GOTV!

[FreakinDJ]

2. Clinton will lose

[NWCorona]

13. Big time but they will blame Bernie's supporter's

Instead of the weak candidate.

[CoffeeCat]

27. And that's the paradox!

One of the primary reasons for being against HRC is because she can't win.

How many times do we have to say it?

How many times do we have to post the polls that show her losing to Trump? She's got high negatives, no cross-over appeal and scant support from Independents. She has no chance of winning a GE.

They Dem establishment will have only themselves to blame if she is our nominee.

[yourpaljoey]

3. The hope Bernie inspires will evaporate; apathy will set in once again.

The hope Bernie inspires will evaporate;
apathy will set in once again.
The country will never recover.
A candidate like Bernie will never again be permitted to run,
I am guessing the plans to prevent that are already on the table.

[NurseJackie]

23. Oh-well, at least they'll still have their pride.

[senz]

35. But if people stay home or vote Green, what would happen to Hillary?

[MoonRiver]

69. You mean what would happen to this country?

Good question.

[senz]

150. Well, this country is screwed if either Hill or a Repub win.

But I do wonder what would happen to Hillary. She seems to have sold out whatever values she had for a chance to get back into the White House. It's all she cares about. ALL. There's nothing else. What will she do? She has a lot of money; perhaps she can be happy living the high life with her millionaire Republican friends. But her ego, omg. Her ego is the dominant part of her psyche. That's kind of scary, imo.

When she loses, keep a close eye on her. The happiest outcome would be the kind of transformation some of us experience after going through hell and surviving. Hope she has a reckoning and finds herself. That's what builds a person from within.

[PonyUp]

4. That's a lie about the Bernie supporters yelling "English Only" n/t

[Algernon Moncrieff]

5. Quiet Mike seems to believe it

[PonyUp]

7. Snopes debunked it. n/t

[Algernon Moncrieff]

57. I'd let Quiet Mike know

[PonyUp]

60. I'm sure he already does, but doesn't care. But for your reading pleasure:

http://www.snopes.com/sanders-english-only-huerta/

[liberal N proud]

6. So they will go completly off the rail and vote for the furthest thing from their dream candidate?

[Rebkeh]

29. Trump is anti-establishment

We keep saying it's about the status quo, nobody hears it.

I won't ever vote Trump, to be clear.

[RiverLover]

36. He's not accepting Super PAC money, wants campaign finance reform & is against NAFTA & the TPP

Anti-establishment will win 2016. I just hope its OUR anti status quo guy.

[BlueMTexpat]

32. +1!

Or not vote at all or write in Bernie's name in the GE, which is effectively the same thing.

These are people who constantly poke fun at those deluded souls who consistently vote Republican against their own interests. They really need to look in the mirror and take a very long look at themselves.

[RiverLover]

42. And vote for Hillary?

More trade deals to send our jobs away
More endless war for corporate profits
More industry insiders in govt leadership positions
More BigAg crushing our environment,
and BigOil isn't giving more $ to her than anyone bc she'll work ag them

Sounds great. yay Hillary

[BlueMTexpat]

62. If you were of voting

age in 2000, you would likely have voted for Nader. That worked out so well.

[RiverLover]

78. Bill Clinton was my first vote. I bought into corporate media spin in those days.

(& I cried like a baby when Gore's election win was stolen.)

Thanks to Clinton in hindsight, & then Obama clearly, I don't take msm at face value anymore. Obama was the last straw. I can't detail anything, but I gave up a lot to work for his candidacy. And then he showed his third way by his insider industry cabinet choices. And the TPP? This is going to be the last straw for MANY Dems.

We're taking the blinders off.

As for Clinton, our original third way, repug in Dem clothing, we can see now, clearly & beyond the economic bubble Clinton presided over & got out before the bubble burst~

15 Ways Bill Clinton’s White House Failed America and the World

[btrflykng9]

137. +1

[BlueMTexpat]

144. So a GOPer would

be better.

[forjusticethunders]

81. 200k Registered Democrats voted for Bush

But hey, let's blame Nader.

[BlueMTexpat]

143. Anyone (Democrat or not) who

did NOT vote for Gore essentially voted for Bush. Period.

I don't blame Nader himself. I blame those voters whose "principles" were so "pure" that they refused to vote for Gore "because Dems and Reps were essentially the same."

B***S*** Their "principles" helped to screw not only the United States, but also the rest of the world. We are STILL paying for them. That is my POV and it is NOT going to change.

I saw exactly same things happen in 1968, in 1972, in 1980, in 1984, in 1988, in 2004, and in 2008. Each and every time, the rhetoric (i.e., justification) was exactly the same ("principles&quot even if the rhetoric wasn't always from the left. So I have absolutely no patience left with such crap.

[forjusticethunders]

156. orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

you can blame the Democrats who ACTUALLY put Bush on the top of the ballot.

[geek tragedy]

8. Nonsense. Bernie supporters are liberal/left voters nt

[hoosierlib]

54. And the 85% of the under 29 support him for a reason...

If he's gone, most of them will say eff it because corporate money wins again...

[geek tragedy]

72. no, they'll just turn out at the normal numbers nt

[hoosierlib]

75. Doubtful...

While the allure of electing the first female prsident is what is behind Hillary's base (women aged 45+), its not the primary motivating factor for millenials.

Millenials don't trust her and won't show up...

[geek tragedy]

76. milennials, contrary to what you're portraying them as, are adults

who are more than capable of examining where a Donald Trump presidency would take this country

[hoosierlib]

79. I am a millenial and I can telll you that we don't trust her...

And a corporatist war hawk is not what we want...

And after the criminal referral comes from the FBI in a few months, it will only cement our decision...

[geek tragedy]

84. you need to stop watching Fox News re: "criminal referral" nt

[hoosierlib]

88. I don't watch Fox, but I do work with classified information...

HRC and several of her aides will get a criminal referral as a result of the FBI investigation. The storage of classified information (whether identified or not) on a unsecure network is a direct violation of government policy and practice.

The criminal referral will come (Director James Comey is a freaking Republican), the timing (my guess is that it will after the primary) and whether the DOJ will act are the only variables.

[geek tragedy]

89. where'd you get your law degree? nt

[hoosierlib]

92. Don't have one...

But I again do have a clearance and work regularly with classified material...

[geek tragedy]

95. you must not be a big fan of Ed Snowden nt

[JonLeibowitz]

101. Millenials are a big fan of Ed Snowden in particular and whistleblowers in general

We don't like government intrusion into our private lives.

[geek tragedy]

108. then why the Fox News rants about criminal referrals for Clinton because people sent her emails

that mentioned subjects like the drone program?

[JonLeibowitz]

112. Is it your contention that the FBI is conducting an investigation due to FOX?

Or perhaps independent-minded thinkers can come to conclusions independently?

[geek tragedy]

118. I am saying the Internet chatter about Clinton being prosecuted is driven by Fox/Drudge etc

It isn't something one finds at Democracy New and Billmoyers.com

[JonLeibowitz]

120. You did not address the question. Oh well. n/t

[hoosierlib]

102. Oh I am a big fan of his and President Obama should pardon him...

That being said, he still broke the law and the rule of law must be followed.

As for HRC and company, it would appear that they violated the law (ask General Petreaus about sharing classified info) and I would expect the FBI to do their job (complete an investigation and issue a criminal referral if it is warranted).

Whether the DOJ decides to prosecute is totally up to Loretta Lynch.

[geek tragedy]

106. you really think that Petraeus taking documents stamped highly confidential and handing

them over to his mistress is the same as people emailing Hillary Clinton news articles about Wikileaks and the drone program?

[hoosierlib]

116. No...one is sharing classified information

And the other is storing them on a unsecured system. Both are viloations of published procedure / law.

And that's only what has been made public.

Someone may have been sending classified information to someone that didn't have a clearance. Obviously, we don't know for sure.

The point being that its a potential major issue that will have a major impact on the race.

[JonLeibowitz]

104. +1. Amazing how people don't know what Millenials are thinking.

We're here if anyone wants to ask, and nobody does.

[fredamae]

9. If people believe

they are politically and Unwillingly maneuvered into the LOTE vote....Again....thru the magic of "party rules/delegates/super delegates/Chaotic Primaries etc, etc" I doubt they're going to be willing to cast such a vote for party loyalty this time around as they have Reliably done in all the past elections. People "feel the knowing" of ENOUGH stronger than ever.

The Dem Party has been bleeding members for Years---quite like the GOP. Leadership has been either in denial or are very pleased...depending upon ones perspective about what is going on internally.

imo

[LonePirate]

10. Yeah, it makes no logical sense to support the polar opposite candidate from Bernie.

I guess their principles and values aren't that important if Trump is their second choice. Makes me wonder why they are supporting Bernie in the first place.

[Rebkeh]

34. Bernie and Trump are outsiders

It's not about policy for some people, it's about the establishment/status quo.

In that sense, it's completely logical.

[CoffeeCat]

53. The public has finally reached a tipping point with insider, establishment politics

It's clear as day now that our politicians no longer serve "We The People." They serve the corporations and powerful special interests who have purchased themselves a democracy.

People are feeling it in their wallets, as they say goodbye to the American dream. Dent their wallets and then you've got an electorate that is activated.

Most Americans no longer trust the system. They've lost faith in their government. And that's a sentiment expressed across party lines. Independents, who have checked out of both parties--are even more pissed and cynical about both political parties. 42 percent of voters in my state--identify as Independents. The growth of Indies signifies that people are abandoning the political parties because they have failed our country.

So, when much of this fed-up, angry, disgusted electorate goes to the polls--they might feel that their best chance at any sort of change is with someone outside of the DC inner circles.

That's what is happening. And the polls reflect that reality. Why do you think Trump beats Hillary in GE match ups...because he's so smart and because he's got such great ideas??? He's an idiot. But he's outside of the establishment.

And unfortunately, our Democratic braintrust--led by DWS--has decided to ram HRC down the electorate's throats during an election year when the majority of the electorate is wholly rejecting status-quo career politicians.

[PonyUp]

12. Repugs will fall in line for whoever is their nominee. n/t

[HooptieWagon]

14. Of course Sanders supporters never said 'English only'.

That was a fabrication by Huerta.
There is no question some Sanders support will go to Trump, but unlikely from the Democratic left. The support to Trump will likely be from Independants. Some of the Democratic left will vote Jill Stein, as there's next to no difference between the Green Party's platform and Sanders, and the Greens will welcome the Democratic left with open arms. That would be quite a refreshing change from the open hostility coming from the RW Democrats.
The youth vote most likely will stay home.
I'd guess the votes for Clinton will be at Kerry level ( 59 million ) or less. Republican votes will be strong, as they'll turn to the polls in droves if only to vote against Clinton.

[senz]

30. I wonder what will happen if a third party candidate emerges?

Bloomberg has been mentioned. It would be amazing if Elizabeth Warren stepped in. Or, as you say, a Clinton "win" (if it could be called that, given her tactics) could reinvigorate the Green Party. A friend who knows a few millennials tells me they're talking about Jill Stein if Bernie loses.

And then, who would inherit the Democratic Party? Would people abandon it to Third Way corruption? That would be sad.

[HooptieWagon]

40. I have several Sanders fb groups on my feed.

The overwhelming consensus is to vote Jill Stein in the GE if Clinton is the Democratic nominee. Not everyone on those fb groups is a longtime Dem though, but I don't know breakdown of % Dem and % Ind. They are all age groups though.
I very much doubt Warren would run third party this year.

[senz]

55. Interesting times we're living in.

Poor America. Poor world.

[HooptieWagon]

65. She had .36% of the vote in 2012.

So it will be easy to compare to 2016 and conclude the difference is Sanders supporters driven away by the DNC.
It still may be less than Dems voting R though. The dirty little secret the Third Way doesn't want to talk about is the 13% of Democrats who voted Bush in 2000...these votes didn't come from the liberal left, and were far more than the Dems who voted for Nader. However, the facts don't fit their hippie-bashing narrative.

[Gregorian]

16. I flocked in '92.

Hillary obviously has little interest in a healthy democracy.

[senz]

26. Obviously.

She doesn't even pretend to.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Quite Mike is a person who looks at two candidates and picks the one with a long, loud history of

openly opposing the equal rights of some minority groups while claiming the other side are the real bigots. Breathtaking lack of self awareness from the DOMAcrat Quite Mike.

[HooptieWagon]

50. Democratic Party is looking at losing the Millenials for good.

Boomers are starting to die off, X's are lower in number than Boomers and Millenials. So if the Democratic establishment continues to drive away Millenials, they're writing off the future of the party.

[Gregorian]

51. Thank you for this post.

I've reached a point of fighting against Democrats for the preservation of...democracy, that I'm no longer able to express it in words. I'm resentful now. This is so far from where I envisioned the Democratic party to be right now, I can hardly believe it. So reading a little truth about the reality of the situation is very helpful.

She's only winning with sleepwalking adults. The rest of us know better. I can't even say anything that isn't inflammatory now. Forgive me.

[EndElectoral]

20. In a Clinton-Trump election,you'll have a low turnout and that favors Repubs, and hurts local races

The milennials will stay home as will many progressives or go green. Some will medicate themselves and force themselves to pull the straight democratic lever or push the button rationalizing it is for the Supreme Court and then go to the bathroom to vomit or go get drunk.

I may be one of these. I also may just find a diversion.

[Barack_America]

22. I'm not sure I will.

At some point a stand does have to be made about corporate money in politics.

It would be tough to not vote for a Democratic candidate though, and to leave a vote blank. Uncharted territory there.

[redstateblues]

31. Go ahead and vote for Cruz or Trump

By not voting for the Democratic nominee. Maybe if Trump wins he would appoint Cruz to the SCOTUS. Like Nader said "not a dimes worth of difference" between the Republican and the Democrat. Yeah right!

[NurseJackie]

37. I understand. I'd have a difficult time voting "for" Bernie (if he were the nominee). But ...

... I would be willing to vote for the Democratic nominee (and against the Republican nominee).

I guess it all depends on what one's priorities are.

[senz]

25. Mike Weishr is dingbat if he thinks Bernie supporters are racist.

Anyone who honestly thinks that should have their IQ checked.

Anyone who knows it's not true but says it anyway for the purpose of making Bernie lose the AA vote should get an exorcism. I think some Roman Catholic priests still do it.

[bigwillq]

33. This one won't.

I've had enough of the whole Clinton family. Plus, I live in Blue CT, where the DEM nominee will win my state with or without my vote. I see it as a win-win.

[senz]

44. ...

I've heard that some are taking names of those who say they won't vote for the Dem nominee, so people should be careful. I've already seen two excellent DUers get banned for it.

[bigwillq]

47. I plan on voting for all other DEMs on the ballot

Plus, Hillary is not the nominee. Yet. Who knows what will happen between now and the convention. It may not be Hillary or Bernie. When a nominee is decided, I will likely have to hold my tongue. But until then.....

Thanks for your concern. Appreciate it.

[EdwardBernays]

38. In order

Many people support

Bernie
Trump
Staying home

Or

Trump
Bernie
Staying home

[coyote]

82. Yup I totally agree with you

What Clinton supporters don't get is that there is a total anti-establishment mood throughout the country. I know people personally who will either Bernie or Trump simply to send a "fuck you" to DC.

As for voting for Hillary, people think why bother, it's just same shit different day like it has been for the last 30 years.

[EdwardBernays]

86. yep

or they hate her from the right, or they hate her from the left.

[coyote]

123. Exactly.

I have a republican friend whose blood pressure goes up when I mention the name Hillary. They will come out in droves to vote against her.

[EdwardBernays]

127. absolutely

red flag to a bull

[jeff47]

139. Wow are you utterly clueless about Sanders supporters.

If BS campaigns for Hillary, his supporters will need to decide if they follow his recommendation to vote for her.

If we were the kind of people who "fall in line", we'd already have fallen in line for Clinton.

Sanders supporters are not reachable by &quot authority figure) says vote for Clinton". Because virtually every authority figure is already saying to vote for Clinton. It's not going to work even if that authority figure is Sanders. Because we don't support Sanders the person. We support the policies.

Clinton will need to win Sanders supporters in the general election. "Who else you gonna vote for?" will not work. Endorsements will not work. "But Republicans are bad!" will not work.

And Clinton's scorched-earth tactics in the primary are making it harder and harder for her to win Sanders supporters.

Of course, they can always vote for Trump.

Believe it or not, there's more than two choices on a general election ballot. And you don't even have to fill in the blank next to "president" at all.

[jeff47]

147. Remember how I explicitly said "Republicans are worse" won't work?

Perhaps immediately leaping to that argument isn't the smartest plan.

Your voting for them has little effect beyond giving you a sense that you voted on your principles.

Clinton can not win my state in the general election. Our 15 electors will go to the Republican. Even if the Republican candidate literally is Satan.

That means my vote is already inconsequential. Principles are all that is left.

The fact is that support for Bernie is a mile wide and an inch deep. Your own post proves that's the case. Your vote for him only exists as long as he toes YOUR wants

Yeah...that's called "democracy". You might want to consider it.

i.e.: give me free stuff!

And now I stop reading anything you write.

[w4rma]

46. Some Bernie supporters are anti-current-establishment and are *considering* the Democratic Party.

They'll definitely flip if they think that the Clintonites are in anti-democratic control over the party.

I'm not one of those, btw. I'm just the messenger bringing you the bad news.

Clinton doesn't bring in *any* new voters. She runs them off and nothing I can say or do can convince them to vote Democratic while the Clintons are perceived to be in charge.

Oh, the article repeats that lie that Clintonites are trying to make go viral.

[Iggo]

49. That "English only" thing is a lie.

Hard to take him seriously after that.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

58. Yes, but it's like the "Dean Scream"

The myth becomes the story.

[BeyondGeography]

56. Lots of imponderables

Bernie will endorse HRC and do the grown-up thing and encourage those who are inclined to sit this out to think again. He excels at ripping Republicans so I think he will be helpful.

Clinton will choose a running mate designed to help with turnout.

Not all Sanders supporters are anti-Obama. I expect he will reach a few when he speaks up in the GE.

The Republicans will motivate more Sanders voters than you think to get to the polls.

Etc.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

66. Mike Bloomberg has said he may come in if Trump, Cruz, &/or Sanders are nominees

..so his theory would he to take his half out of the middle, appealing to Clinton Democrats and Republicans who can't bring themselves to support Cruz or Trump. How successful he could be is anyone's guess, as this election (so far) seems to be defying expectations at certain levels.

[BeyondGeography]

77. I very much agree with your last sentence

It's the crazy-assed year of the outsider/truth teller and that's the biggest threat to HRC. But I think that works against Bloomberg as well, who would be selling reason/competence at the end of the day. Plus he has the nanny state thing going against him on his regulation of junk food/guns. Not seeing where his base would be.

[jeff47]

140. It doesn't matter if Sanders endorses HRC.

If endorsements mattered to Sanders supporters, they wouldn't be supporting Sanders.

It's about the policies, not the man. And if Sanders loses the nomination, it's still about the policies, not the man.

Clinton will choose a running mate designed to help with turnout.

There is no one she can select that helps with her losing the "youth vote" 20-80. Because again, it's about the policies, not the person. Someone young isn't going to magically make that "youth vote" switch - if it could, they wouldn't be overwhelmingly voting for a 74-year-old.

Not all Sanders supporters are anti-Obama.

It's still about the policies. Not the man.

The Republicans will motivate more Sanders voters than you think to get to the polls.

How'd relying on this work in 2010 and 2014 again?

[BeyondGeography]

141. Comparing GE turnout with midterm turnout

Absurd.

And politics is not the charisma-free zone you imagine. Bernie's integrity and fearlessness counts at least as much for his popularity as his policies.

[jeff47]

145. Still applies to 2004 and 2000.

"Republicans are worse" didn't work well in those elections either.

Bernie's integrity and fearlessness counts at least as much for his popularity as his policies.

No, those are side effects of his policies.

[doc03]

59. This threat is getting kind off f-----g old. You know that could work the

other way but Clinton supporters aren't that shallow. If you don't know the difference in getting a Democrat in the WH
even if you don't like them is go ahead and sit on your hands and let the WH, congress and courts go to the Republicans.
I can guarantee we will lose the ACA, SS and Medicare and anything else that helps the 99%. I have never seen that threat
from any Clinton supporter.

[Jester Messiah]

63. What a lovely insinuation, that Bernie supporters are likely to be bigots/racists.

The Clinton machine is actively alienating Bernie voters. They seem to want to make sure we know we're not wanted. Well, message received.

[Nanjeanne]

64. I might have taken this seriously if he hadn't posted the lie about supporters yelling English Only

that makes me know this is basically a full of crap hit job with no basis in reality.

Sorry Quiet Mike - if you perpetrate lies - who is going to take your analysis seriously? Perhaps staying Quiet would be better.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

68. The piece is an odd mix, which is why I found it intriguing

On one hand, he seems to support Sanders (or at least advocate for his electability). On the other hand, he seems to be making a case that Sanders supporters are cut from the same cloth as Trump supporters. I agree they both support outsiders; however I think the case for racism on the part of Sanders supporters is tenuous.

[Marr]

67. Here's a great example of why it's so important to 'call out our icons' when they lie.

He's basing his entire argument on a Huerta's lie about Sanders supporters yelling "English only".

I think we can see why so many HRC supporters around here were urging people to just let the whole Huerta thing go. They want to get as much mileage out of it as they can.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

71. I am a Clinton supporter. I haven't seen the tape.

I also know there are arguments over Sanders' claims over winning the Latino vote. I don't know enough about either the tape or the math to opine one way or the other.

[Zorra]

70. Just another steaming pile from just another Third Way Clinton propagandist. nt

[Algernon Moncrieff]

73. Most of Quiet Mike's article seemed to be Pro-Sanders

...or are you referring to me?

[Zorra]

110. Not you, the author. He got busted on the Huerta BS

and had to change his post.

"That being said, Trump will certainly steal Bernie’s voters away from Clinton in the general election. There is no question. Probably more than any other party has taken from another in a while. Bigots/racists actually come from all political persuasions (some more than others) and in America, they are plentiful."

He apparently thinks he's being clever by smearing Bernie supporters with ^this transparent propaganda bullshit^.

Bernie is a Democratic Socialist. Clinton is a corporatist centrist, way to the right of Bernie

Whose supporters would be more likely to vote for a RW fascist like Trump?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

149. Truthfully, Cruz looks worse to me than Trump

..and they are trying to paint Rubio as the moderate alternative.

After the death of Scalia, I have a new Hillary v. Bernie philosophy: if we can't agree on the Presidency, let's work together on the Senate. A Blue Senate serves as insurance if the WH goes to the other side.

I don't see either Clinton or Sanders supporters voting for Trump. I could see them not voting; I could see them writing in Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden, or even Jimmy Buffett; however I don't see them voting for Cruz, Trump, or Rubio.

[whatchamacallit]

74. This is total bullshit

some Bernie supporters may decline to vote, but no actual liberal will vote for Trump.

[EdwardBernays]

80. rock and a hard place

first 20% of democrats have said they'd vote for Trump

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/265330-some-dems-would-defect-for-trump-poll-shows

second, many people aren't as party obsessed as many on DU... they want something that's NOT the status quo, which they feel is more true about Trump than Hillary. They also see Trump crushing all the Republicans they hate and they like that.

And of course many people would say that no true liberal would vote for Hillary... I'd be inclined to agree... not that I'd vote for Trump.

[whatchamacallit]

87. I would venture that 20% are either confused or right-leaning

They may identify democrat, but like a lot of RW talking-point spewing HRC supporters, they're not liberals.

[EdwardBernays]

90. well...

the problem with that is that - as DU clearly shows - a Democrat doesn't have to have any core values except claiming to be a Democrat.

And I genuinely have a hard time believing that any liberals would vote for Hillary because she's a liberal, because she's not really.



Democrats will, in some number, vote for Hillary. What they actually believe is unknowable really...

Liberals may vote for Hillary out of fear of the alternative...

But if liberals want to vote for a liberal, and the choice is Hillary or Trump, they're gonna either vote 3rd party or stay home.

[whatchamacallit]

93. Exactly

No liberal will vote for Trump. Some confused democrats maybe.

[EdwardBernays]

94. Liberals have no good choices

If Hillary gets the nod.

sad really...

[whatchamacallit]

100. Like you said

they will vote 3rd party or stay home.

[EdwardBernays]

103. yep

and then... President Trump.

[Jarqui]

109. She loses with Independents 76% find her unfavorable, 92% Republicans

It's why Bernie performs better against the GOP.

I'm still not convinced Trump has this sewn up.

[EdwardBernays]

117. Trump had

55,000 people show up last night in Atlanta...

What's Hillary get these days? 55? Plus her scorched earth campaign against Bernie and his supporters has alienated so many Progressive. Plus of course as you say, her unfavorables are sky high, and her trustworthiness is so low... hard to see how she can win...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

83. Well, I won't flock to her. But, I sure as hell won't vote for Trump.

[whatchamacallit]

91. It's just more berniebro character assassination bullshit

The people writing this crap either believe you can shame and browbeat folks into submission or don't want Bernie supporter votes in the GE. It's fuckng nuts.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

98. It's fucking obvious.

[basselope]

97. I ONLY came back to this party for Sanders

0% I will vote for Clinton in general election.

I will vote green.

[randome]

121. Your compassion for your fellow man is admirable.

Anger is never a good place from which to make a decision. And this whole "I'll take my ball and go home!" pronouncement is nothing but anger.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[basselope]

124. Let me make this a little more clear for you...

I didn't vote for Bill Clinton, I didn't vote for John Kerry and I didn't vote for Barack Obama.

I live in California so my vote doesn't really count... if I lived in a swing state I would probably hold my nose and vote for the slow road to hell.. but I don't have to make that choice.

I am not voting for Hillary Clinton for the same reason. I will not give another vote to a right of center democrat who is leading this country in the wrong direction.

The anger I feel is the democratic party abandoning all its principles in the 90s and jumping on the deregulation train. Jumping on the war train for bush and giving away the public option, making the bush tax cuts permanent, signing the TPP and I could go on and on, but why bother.

I "took my ball and went home" a LONG time ago. The democratic party has a CHANCE to win it back.. its up to them.

[LondonReign2]

99. I will show up and dutifully vote for down ticket Dems

Or, at least as many as are running in my very red area.

I will not, however, vote for a Presidential candidate that will continue to move the country further to the right.

[vdogg]

107. Well good for them.

I hope they enjoy President Trump. Maybe we need a Republican presidential to smack some sense back in to everyone. People seem to have short memories and have already forgotten how God awful the Bush years were.

[DrDan]

111. this is true - but interesting that they claim Hillary is the one dividing the party

[BainsBane]

119. Though if Sanders is the nominee

and Trump or Cruz on the other side, Bloomberg has said he will mount a Third Party campaign that will complicate things.

[basselope]

126. They ran that poll.. Bloomberg has 0 impact.

[BainsBane]

129. Do you have a link to that poll?

That is certainly not my impression from talking to people.

[basselope]

132. Here.. it was done shortly after he announced the possibility.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/30/a-bloomberg-poll-finds-little-support-for-michael-bloomberg/

Further, Bloomberg would pull voters away from Trump far more than Bernie, so I would welcome him into that race.

[BainsBane]

134. That polled only Iowa

so I don't think a single poll of one state is determinative.

Conventional wisdom is he would take more Democratic votes, but I don't know how true that would proove.

[basselope]

138. I don't see how...

He and Trump favor the same general policies... he may be more liberal socially, but Bernie voters are likely down the economic platform which bloomberg and trump are identical on.

[Bradical79]

122. I'm not familiar with "Queit Mike"

but his article is based on something that didn't happen. Sure, Bernie supporters might stay home, but more likely due to being completely alienated. Nothing is better at discouraging turnout than ignoring issues, lying about potential supporters, and being told your concerns don't matter. Rather than try to win votes, Clinton's campaign and surrogates seem to be trying to convince people to sit this one out.

[jillan]

128. This is the one story I wish the msm would pick up

They are missing a yuuuuge story by not discussing this. People like myself that have been a hard core Democrat for decades have had it with the attacks and smears that have been directed towards us. Starting with Rahm's comments, the DNC fighting us to the point where many do not come out to vote and now the constant attacks and accusations coming from The Clinton campaign have pushed us over the edge. What am I going to do November- I honestly don't know at this moment.

[drm604]

130. What a stupid thing for him to say.

That being said, Trump will certainly steal Bernie’s voters away from Clinton in the general election. There is no question.

Talk about being disconnected from reality.

And the "English Only" claim appears to be typical political distortion or, at worst, a few non-representative idiots.

http://gawker.com/did-bernie-sanders-supporters-chant-english-only-at-d-1760467084

[John Poet]

133. "Won't necessarily"---

That has to be the understatement of the year.

However, the idea that any large number would vote for Trump is ludicrous.

[Corey_Baker08]

146. If Losing The Supreme Court For A Generation Is Fine With Them...

They're Just Handing Republicans The White House.

If Hillary Clinton Is The Democratic Nominee Those Who Consider Themselves Democrats Who Don't Support Her In The General Election Should Know The Consequences Of Their Inaction On Election Day.

Trump Will Dismantle The ACA & Most Importantly Will Have The Duty Of Nominating 3 Supreme Court Justices.

They Will No Doubt Overturn Roe V Wade, They Will Overturn Same Sex Marriage, Essentially They Will Over Turn Everything The Democratic Party Has Worked So Hard For Over The Past 80 Years..

That's Not The World I Want To Live In, For Those Bernie Sanders Supporters Who Say They Will Not Vote For Clinton In The General Election, I Say To You, Look At The Consequences Of Your Inaction & The Impact It Will Have On This Country For A Generation And Ask Yourself, Is This What I Want For My Kids & Grandkids?

Yes I Support Hillary But If Bernie Becomes The Nominee Of The Democratic Party I Will Work Just As Hard For Him As I Would've Worked For Hillary Clinton.

I Just Wish More People On DU Felt The Same Way...

How About A Clinton/Sanders Ticket, Would That Bridge The Divide If Hillary Is The Nominee?

[Blue_In_AK]

152. I can't really see disaffected Bernie supporters voting for Trump,

but I can quite easily imagine them voting for Jill Stein or leaving it blank, particularly in states that are overwhelmingly red or blue.

[PonyUp]

154. ...

[HooptieWagon]

155. Correct.

A negligible number will vote Trump.
Among youth and Independants, well over half will stay home or vote Jill Stein. Among the Democratic Party left, over half will hold their nose and vote for Clinton, but a sizeable number will vote Jill Stein. My estimate...half or more of Sanders supporters won't be voting for Zclinton.

[Herman4747]

153. I got no further than "Trump will certainly steal Bernie's voters" n/t