2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWow, The Hillary Hate Is Becoming Intense on this Forum
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Goblinmonger (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).
Reads like Free Republic some times.
After Bernie won N.H., folks on this forum were starting to say that it was over for Hillary, and then she won NV and is way ahead in S.C. Now, the hate comes.
This is why progressivism is not further along in America. Progressives worship individual leaders, not causes. As a contrast, the GBLT community, the only truly successful progressive movement in the past 10 years, pursued a cause, not a particular leader. Marriage equality and the end of the military ban, were both successful without a major leader leading the way.
Tying up your hopes and dreams into one political campaign and then acting like petulant children when that particular leader fails sets back the progressive cause.
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libtodeath
(2,888 posts)
DrDan
(20,411 posts)I see folks liking him and willing to support him if Hillary should not win - but certainly no hatred
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)gotcha. 
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Is calling Hillary a "killer", or using the term "Killery", saying she is worst than republicans, and all kinds of other attacks you can read about daily on the GDP page.
lark
(23,091 posts)I'm a Bernie supporter, but those HRC hate threads are both over the top and frequent. Get so tired of seeing, I won't vote if Bernie doesn't win or I won't vote for the president, or I'll write in the Green candidate. Makes me ill when Dems threaten to throw the nomination to the awful Repugs because they aren't getting their perfect guy. HRC won't disable the constitution, won't harm women, won't roll back the ACA and put nothing in it's place, won't bomb Iran on day 1, etc. etc. She's not my choice and I'm really hoping to get to vote for Bernie in the general, but I will vote for her in the general if she's the D nominee. I'm not willing to "kill" my family for spite.
teopa
(1 post)but i wont vote for her. I understand everything i've read. I am a free citizen and i reserve to vote my conscience. I voted EVERY election since 1972. (Yes, i'm a boomer). I WILL vote Democratic across th board for congress, even though i think some may have been there long enough.... It is my RIGHT to vote as i see fit. And however i vote will not GUARANTEE my desired outcome anyway (such as when Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes won DESPITE my vote) therefore i WILL vote according to my beliefs as given to me in the constitution.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)= hatred?
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's a lifestyle, not an insult! From the Burlington VT Free Press:
Vermont remains a hippie epicenter
So, asking a hippie anything here could well be a far easier task than in, say, Mississippi — last on the Estately list....In the summer of 1970, about 300 young people living in collectives throughout Vermont gathered at Earthworks, a commune less than three miles from the Canadian border in the town of Franklin.
These nonconformists were inspired by anti-establishment militancy, the vision of a rural paradise where artistic and literary pursuits could flourish or a desire for back-to-the-land endeavors. Or all of the above.
Differences proved less important than shared objectives. They were able to agree on goals such as a cooperative system for buying food and a clinic to provide free healthcare. This movement was dubbed Free Vermont.
"We talked about our dreams," recalled Barbara Nolfi, one of the original members of Earthworks. "We wanted to make a better life for everyone, make things accessible without bureaucracy, profits and distortion. We were anti-capitalists."......
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2015/07/24/vermont-remains-hippie-epicenter/30564907/
Fla Dem
(23,650 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It's a lifestyle, not an insult.
Our POTUS's grandfather was the ultimate one--and he was a very wise fellow, from all accounts. He helped to raise a very good man.
Loki
(3,825 posts)If you think this is hatred, wow.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)do you remember how many posts that person had?
that has no place here
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)Was it a long time member or a newbie?
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)have? That junk cannot be tolerated!
MADem
(135,425 posts)If Larry David or Jon Steward are calling him a "Crusty Jew," I'd assume they were saying he is an acerbic member of the Tribe.
If Donald Trump is using the term, then it might not be praiseworthy.
You can't demand that we "spin that" without providing context.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)IMO that hateful jackass should be PPR'ed, and if that gets my post being Hidden, I'm fine with that.
A key difference is that when some asshole posts some hateful anti-Sanders bullshit, Clinton supporters will eagerly condemn it. It doesn't get its own thread with 200 recs on the front page.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)Is it just posts about her record? I've seen that described as hate.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)According to Hillary supporters Bernie is Israel's #1 shill, a pro gunner that thinks women enjoy being raped, that we should abolish pedophilia or rape laws, is a racist, gun nut, draft dodger, scheming little sneak, socialist throwback jackass, drooling sweating old fool, scumbag, pandering phony braggart with some kind of emotional instability, tool for the NRA, Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies, thinks that orgasms prevent cancer, wants guns in the streets, is trying to suppress the black vote, has a nest egg in Israel and is supported by Stormfront.
Those are direct quotes, links to posts get alerted on but they can be found in my journal.
There is a lot of bile directed towards both candidates, pretending Hillary supporters are innocent is absurd.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So Bernistas watch your backs, people who repeatedly ask for links might not really be interested in seeing them.
MelSC
(256 posts)Even the Hillary supporters like Bernie...now the Bernie supporters on the other hand have been quite unsavory to the Hillary peeps, it's at a ridiculous level.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)For the ones that do, and with good reason
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Hillary, on the other hand generates disgust whenever she opens her mouth. I don't hate her, but I do loathe her policies.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)And they even have their own little hate sites where they openly talk about "getting" Bernie supporters on DU. I will not dignify them by posting links.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)Every time I've logged into DU for the past month or so, at least three of the top five posts on the front page have been some raw and unrestrained screed against Clinton. It's true right now, it was true first thing this morning, and it was true when I logged in for the final time last night.
To date, I haven't seen even one single equivalent anti-Sanders thread rec'ed so heartily on the front page, not since he announced his bid for the nomination.
And when Sanders' supporters offer "evidence" of rampant hatred of Sanders, they provide a link to some random idiot's drooling, over-the-top post in some sprawling thread somewhere in the bowels of GD-P. That is, they actively have to seek out those individual posts in order to find them, whereas a reader must actively work to avoid whole anti-Clinton threads on DU's front page.
So, no. There is no trend of Sanders-hate here on DU, and certainly nothing like the relentless wave of anti-Clinton hostility spewing forth at all hours of the day and night.
You are seeking to paint yourself and--by extension--your candidate as a poor, persecuted victim who simply can't get a fair hearing on this cruel, cruel forum.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)But the hate (and racism) is coming much more intensely from the Sanders crowd.
This site is overwhelmingly pro-Sanders, so it's a reasonable perception.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Gothmog
(145,129 posts)The concept that the Clinton campaign has been very negative on Sanders is simply false when you look at what Sanders would be subject to if he was the Democratic nominee. VOX had a good article on the potential lines of attack that Sanders would be exposed to if Sanders was the nominee. http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders One of the more interesting observations in the VOX analysis is the fact that Sanders have been treated with kids gloves compared to what Sanders would face if he was the Democratic nominee. I strongly agree with the VOX's position that the so-called negative attacks against Sander have been mild. Form the article:
When Sanders supporters discuss these attacks, though, they do so in tones of barely contained outrage, as though it is simply disgusting what they have to put up with. Questioning the practical achievability of single-payer health care. Impugning the broad electoral appeal of socialism. Is nothing sacred?
But c'mon. This stuff is patty-cakes compared with the brutalization he would face at the hands of the right in a general election.
His supporters would need to recalibrate their umbrage-o-meters in a serious way.
The attacks that would be levied against Sanders by the Kochs, the RNC candidate and others in a general election contest would make the so-called attacks against Sanders look like patty-cakes. The GOP and Kochs are not known for being nice or honest and as the article notes there are a ton of good topics available for attack. Raising taxes is never a good campaign platform (Just ask President Mondale). The GOP would also raise the socialism and age issues if Sanders was the nominee.
Again, I agree with the VOX position that so far, Sanders has not been subject to negative attacks close to what the GOP would use against Sanders and the attacks against Sanders if he was the nominee would be brutal. I urge Sanders supporters to read the VOX article to start to get a feel for what real negative attacks would look like.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Here is what the Hillary campaign has done.
Spread the falsehood on national TV and in the Washington Post that a picture of Bernie at a civil rights demonstration at the U. of Chicago in the 1960s was actually the picture of another man. FALSE AND UGLY. But Bernie rises above the hate that was exhibited in the dissemination of the lie and makes little or nothing of it.
Confronted Bernie in an ugly manner in the middle of a debate about his having voted for the Commodities Futures Act which was snuck into an omnibus budget bill in 2000 BY HILLARY'S HUSBAND, AND HILLARY'S ECONOMIC ADVISER GENSLER in cahoots with Republican Graham. The bill had to be passed in order to keep the government going and the Commodities Futures Act was snuck into it at the last minute precisely so that conscientious senators like Bernie would be tricked into voting for it. BERNIE PUT A HOLD ON GENSLER'S NOMINATION TO A POST UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. Hillary avenged the slight by accusing Bernie in front of the voters of having voted for that measure when Gensler of all people, Hillary's adviser knew that Bernie was tricked by the omnibus budge bill and the sneaking in of that awful, Clinton law into it at the last minute.
Hillary is a sneak, a vindictive person, and I will vote for all other Democrats on my ballot but NEVER, EVER, EVER FOR HILLARY. NEVER, EVER.
She is so hated by Republicans that I doubt that she can make it through a four-year term without impeachment hearings.
Do I hate her? No.
Do I think she will harm our country if elected? Yes.
Do I love my country? Yes.
Bernie is running to save democracy. Hillary is running to save her friends, the oligarchs.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)mistakes.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)cover many of their jobs. The New Deal very disproportionately helped white people. Look into it.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)FDR was not good for Japanese-Americans and for the rich and high and mighty who crashed our economy in 1929.
But for everyone else he was about as close to God as you could get.
African-Americans criticize him because he did not treat them well in some of his programs. But actually he and Eleanor did a great deal to make liberals aware of the injustice that was done to Black people at the time. They were limited greatly by public blindness and the lack of communication about what was going on with regard to African-Americans. That was not due to any lack of concern on the part of the Roosevelts in my opinion.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)was not a savior for everyone. That poster seemed pretty unaware.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Next to Jesus and not far behind came FDR.
Young people today have no idea of how our country suffered under the Republicans and the Great Depression before FDR came to save them.
FDR had personal faults. He was not always very kind to Eleanor for one thing. But FDR saved America and not just from the NAZIs.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)been scapegoated. And Obama is scapegoated here plenty.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)Nothing compared to what you guys post every single day.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)When you aren't allowed to respond now is there?
George II
(67,782 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)That Hate Cruise has sailed!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)A long damn time ago!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)
BlueMTexpat
(15,366 posts)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I refuse to be pulled down into the muck.
H2O Man
(73,535 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Have you been able to upload those photos yet?
H2O Man
(73,535 posts)I apologize for the delay. My son will be here by the weekend.
George II
(67,782 posts)
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)due to 3rd way incrementalism, neoliberal economics and neoconservative foreign policy
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)as something other than moving the agenda to the right, yeah, i agree
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)is not "hate" -- except, of course, in Hillary Bizarro World.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)It reminds me of 2002, if you dared criticize Bush, you were a terrorist sympathizer who hated America.
This OP is no different and this crap posted here several times a day.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)will refuse to support her should she become the nominee
BlueMTexpat
(15,366 posts)
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)I do not respect Hillary, I believe that she had and will sell us out. I am respectful of other views unless they viciously attack me for my views. Not enough people following the Golden Rule I guess. We all have seen some ugly crap here at DU, but by and large most people here are respectful.
I will vote for Hillary vs any Republican running, but I do not respect or believe her at all. Her campaign tactics have sunk very low as Bernie's numbers went up. It's disgusting, and very few Hillary supporters have acknowledged it and called it out as wrong.
There has also been several here that have said they would not vote for Bernie if he won the Primary. No candidate has supporters who are all respectful of the opposition. I try to look past that to the candidates, and I find Bernie and what he is trying to do as an opportunity to break us from the hold that big money has over our election system and our government!
Hillary, by denying that all of the corporate money that built her personal fortune, and her huge corporate funded war chest, has no affect on her, her future appointments and her policies, to be a total lie! It basically justifies the corruption in our elections and our government. I have every right to be very angry at this as do many others. Hopefully, even if you don't agree, you can understand where we are coming from.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)I will fight hard for BS should he get the nomination - anything else would not be appropriate in our current political environment
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)should she win.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)This ain't church, where I'm required to worship "The One and Only True One". She has never done anything to earn my support. Mouthing canned platitudes (or platypuses and asparagus if you're a freeper) doesn't do it.
I will admit that, over her career, she has done much to piss me off. But it doesn't even come close to approaching "Hate".
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts) 
Roland99
(53,342 posts)MissDeeds
(7,499 posts) Orrex
(63,203 posts)For instance, if you suggest that Sanders might have certain vulnerabilities in the general election, you're labelled "a hater" and banned from the curiously fragile Sanders Group.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Old Codger
(4,205 posts)They say I give them hell... I tell the truth and they think it is hell!
Response to nichomachus (Reply #5)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Sanders just happens to align better with my views on the "causes" (issues, really) that are important.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Hillary is just playing word games.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Iraq war vote does that mean I'm a "hater"?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I think you would be highlighting a stupid and extremely costly vote of Clintons.
If I mention that Sanders helped increase public support for the war in the years running up to it, as is factually accurate and can be seen in his Iraq Liberation Act Vote, does that mean I'm a "hater"?
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)
pkdu
(3,977 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)The Act authorized the President to assist all such groups with: broadcasting assistance (for radio and television broadcasting), military assistance (training and equipment), and humanitarian assistance (for individuals fleeing Saddam Hussein). The Act specifically refused to grant the President authority to use U.S. Military force to achieve its stated goals and purposes, except as authorized under the Act in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.
4(a)(2))
MILITARY ASSISTANCE.—(A) The President is authorized
to direct the drawdown of defense articles from the stocks
of the Department of Defense, defense services of the Department
of Defense, and military education and training for such
organizations.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)How do people not know this. And yes, it had to do with our unilateral war. Bush referenced it often, it was a major player in building public support, and it made dropping bombs(you seem to not be aware of the aftermath of Sanders vote) more acceptable.
I finding there is a group out there that can deflect and whitewash anything.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)So how did the act cause the bombing?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)try to whitewash that.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)according to the Hillary supporters.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)for them is evidence of hatred. The attacks on Hillary on DU have been vicious, widespread and consistent and virtually indistinguishable from some of the ugliest smears prevalent on right wing, anti-Democratic websites. And this is not a "both sides do it" situation. The criticisms of Sanders don't come anywhere close, either in tone or frequency, to the attacks that are constantly lodges against Hillary. Such posts would never have been allowed to stand in previous cycles, but DU has changed considerably with these kinds of comments not only tolerated but cheered on and high-fived with regularity.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)You're suggesting that good people should overlook those things or they're "haters".
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Great analysis.
I would also add the terms Shillary, Hillarites, Hilarity, etc.
angrychair
(8,694 posts)I would suspect in the Hillary Group protected zone and GD-P could be data-mined and you can find dozens of posts from Clinton, surrogates and supporters:
calling him the "unicorn and fairy dust" candidate (varies twist on same theme)
saying he is socialist (negative red-baiting context)
racist and sexist accusations (Nevada "English only" being the most recent)
that female supporters of Sanders should burn in hell (something a religious person would really be offended by)
That young female supporters of Sanders are only supporting him to "follow the boys" (i will leave it to you to decide what that means)
Attacking the context of the birth of his son.
Making antisemitic and red-baiting accusations about his time, in his 20's, at a kibbutz in Israel.
Last but not least, I left this site for almost the entire month of December in protest because an HRC supporter used an antisemitic, holocaust denial website as a source for a smear on Sanders and a jury allowed it to stand. Not a single HRC supporter complained about the use of that website for a disgusting smear on Sanders.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Let's talk issues and you will see why we must elect Bernie.
I do not hate Hillary, but the sooner she drops out the better for the Party.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I went from merely preferring Clinton to loathing Sanders due to his campaign and his supporters.
KPN
(15,642 posts)I'm surprised you mention Bernie's campaign as a factor in your loathing Sanders. If you don't mind my asking, what specifically did his campaign do to cause your feelings? Are there some specific things his campaign did or said that you can point to? I'm having a hard time understanding that piece.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)A quick list:
-his dishonesty about the cost of single payer
- his dishonesty about Wall Steeet speculation tax, when it actually taxes middle class 401ks.
- dissing groups like PP and HRC
- smearing Democrats for policies of the GOP
More, but those are some top examples.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)On the floor of the House IS NOT calling Bernie dishonest. Pragmatism is the word.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)I think he's right, but it's not impossible he could be wrong in his calculations, but dishonest!? Why would he be dishonest and deceptive about these things? You think he has an ulterior motive of some sort? Bernie Sanders could be wrong about something, but he's not dishonest, and that's exactly why I'm for him and not for Hillary.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)He's referring to his supporter's efforts to delegitimize anyone on this site who supports Hillary. Bernie himself spoke to this sad phenomenon a couple of weeks ago.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)
Roland99
(53,342 posts)vs someone who's had the same political ideals from day one?
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)But nice try with the strawman. 
Roland99
(53,342 posts)changes with the wind.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Bernie supporters are burning down the house and making him unelectable in the event that he were to win the nomination. They have allowed their passion to be used as a weapon.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Candidate A that hurt my feelings, so I'm going to switch to Candidate B? That's astonishing logic, but I see it here all the time.
That is only in the DU Bubble...not in the real world, IMO.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)But, delegitimizing Hillary supporters in the process by calling us DINOs and Third Wayer's will come back to haunt Bernie's prospects if he were to win the nomination. Bernie himself thought this issue important enough that he spoke directly to it a couple of weeks ago. Vicious attacks on Hillary supporters will hurt Bernie's chances. Myself and other Hillary supporters are expressing our feelings. If you choose to ignore us, you do so at Bernie's political peril IMO.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)A vote for hillary hurts our chances. Not that she cant win that she will sell us out..its a trust issue . Shes done it before with bankruptcy vote, iraq war vote. Support of NAFTA, support of TPP..Do you not see how being on both sides of the issue alarms us?
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Most Hillary supporters admire the man.. but just think he's not the best candidate at this point in time.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)I like Bernie. I just think the timing of his revolution with the makeup of the Supreme Court hanging in the balance is ill advised at this time.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,366 posts)DU's Home page 24/7.
NO Bernie "hate" - plenty for Hillary.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)why progressivism is not further along in America. 
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)That's why she is such a terrible candidate.
Q: Why, oh why would our party force a candidate down our throats
who is despised by half of democrats and ALL of republicans?
A: Because they CAN. Third way dems dissolved the DLC and just enveloped and
digested the party whole. They KNOW how screwed up the Republicans are this
cycle and figured they could force-feed her to us for a united front for the "good of the party".
Actually this is the only scenario where we could EVER get a chance to seriously float a
real liberal, so let's make the best of it!
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)
?1432850496timmymoff
(1,947 posts)The Hillary supporters for some reason can not figure out it is the whole shift of the democratic leadership that is fueling Sanders support. We are tired of being sold out by the third way "dems". One group calls themselves liberal but we see by actions, votes, and continual evolutions that they really can't be trusted. One candidate has a consistency of values and morals and the other has a history of contradictions and inconsistencies. It's note hate it really is not settling for half measures. DWS can't figure this out because she is.in the bubble. Nor can the other leading dems. If you think status quo is great then damn sure get out and vote for the inconsistencies you seek. I am going to vote for someone willing to fight not someonr willinh to concede from the start. No we can't No we can't is the new Hillary slogan and you guys eat that up as progressive. You truly have earned the extra work it will take in electing Hillary in the general
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)
It will get worse before it gets better.
On a discussion board it seems all that matters is scoring points today. I think that is fair and acceptable. I have recently been taking a little more time away from DU. The conversation outside of blogs is wildly different than what goes on here. At DU we are politically hyper-sensitive. Again, that can be a good thing. It does seem to cloud long-term vision. I don't think people get that there will be a lot of unification at the convention. Some will work against that but they will fail. As Sanders, Warren, O'Malley and other great progressives endorse Clinton, we will then beef up for the GE. Not perfectly united. That will never happen in a country with over three hundred million people and only two parties. But it will be drastically different than is currently being portrayed.
Yavin4
(35,437 posts)Why do we have marriage equality but not a higher min. wage? Because few nationally prominent politicians would join the cause until it became inevitable. Thus, the GBLT worked on changing the culture, fighting it in the courts, and moving the issue forward instead of pinning their hopes on this or that candidate.
rtracey
(2,062 posts)I agree, because in the end, I would hope, but believe our party will support our candidate. Not like the GOP, which will have a GOP and Independent running. Trump will not be the nominee, but will attempt a 3rd party run. Unity in our party will be top priority. We must elect a democrat for president and turn the senate....period......
chillfactor
(7,574 posts)I am so tired of the hate spewed by Bernie supporters....and over mundane issues that have nothing to do with the campaign.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)So you hate progressives? Do you realize your OP describes Hillary to a tee?
Yavin4
(35,437 posts)Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson, Gary Hart, Ralph Nader, Bill Bradley, Dennis Kucinich, John Edwards, Howard Dean, and now Bernie Sanders, all came and went. Some of them were flawed, deeply flawed, but they all had passionate followers. Believers in them rather than their cause.
Yet, with all that passion, very little progress has been made.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...you're quite wrong about that. The mistake many Clinton supporters, who as far as I can tell are only voting for her because she's Hillary, make is thinking that Bernie folks are all about him. His campaign is about changing government for the future. It's a message and cause that definitely extends past his potential 8 years in office. We get money out, we vote every year, people see the benefits, we win the future.
Hillary isn't even addressing the issue of the difficulties she'll face with this Congress. She has said next to nothing (and I've watched every debate and town hall) about what's needed to ensure progress for the future. It's one of the reasons I can't take her seriously. At least Bernie is saying how difficult getting anything done without drastic, continuing change will be. He's actually the only one dealing with reality.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)If it was about his revolution he would be registering Dem Voters and raising money for Dem candidates.
Your first clue his campaign is all about him is when he says "it's not about me." It's kind of like when people say "I'm not prejudiced...." Right before they go on to make a prejudicial comment. If it were true they wouldn't have to say that.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...that you're so sure about Sanders ambitions. This is a guy who hasn't been in the national spotlight until the last 2 years, but has been consistent in his message for 30+ years. That's not someone who is all about himself. Those are some deeply held beliefs.
I'm also sorry you've become so jaded that you're able to look past Hillary's wishy washy past, corporate funding, and outright campaign nastiness and somehow vote for her. If that's the kind of politics you want, go for it. I'm going to work for something better.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I'm not jaded. I'm just not politically naive. There is a reason most of his supporters are young, and why older folks aren't his biggest fans.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Even think about Maddow one way or the other.
Duval
(4,280 posts)Since then, she is more middle of the road. We have noticed that she has become a bit more strident, which is a turn off sometimes.
Duval
(4,280 posts)They have let go the most outstanding progressive voices. Older folks may not be able to jump as high, but we are not stupid and we do pay attention. There is no "liberal media" now and hasn't been for years. Now, Lawrence O'Donnell is ok, but nothing like Ed Schultz,
Keith Olbermann, Al Sharpton, who have all been let go.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)....he would not choose this moment of nationwide political polarization as the launching pad for his revolution. I think his personal age was the single most important determinant to his timing. I think his timing is ill advised with the makeup of the Supreme Court hanging in the balance. I have no negativity for Bernie at all with the exception of his timing.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)The fact of the matter is, I find it INSULTING that certain Democrats have decided that we can't do things as good as other modern countries do them. We can. You just don't want to because you lack vision. Your era is ending and you don't want to accept it.
Duval
(4,280 posts)We are big fans of Bernie, and many in our community are also. Bernie doesn't have to "fool" anyone because he speaks truth to power. I have listened to him for about 10 years on Hartmann's show (FSTV) and he is consistent in his beliefs.
The Redheaded Guy
(90 posts)When it is about for all of us, it is ABOUT all of us. Hillary is me, me, me, I, I, I, I, not even thinking for the people.
Or the 99%.
If you think Clinton is really for you, you are really being duped, sorry to say.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I'm not seeing the "revolution" - no voter registration by his campaign, no raising money for Dems to get elected and help enact his proposals.
The "revolution" appears to be just a campaign slogan. IMO.
The Redheaded Guy
(90 posts)You just lied twice in a row.
1) Voter registration is high, and there was a 5% uptick on youth turnout, and independents are turning out in record numbers for Bernie. Check out South Carolina for a good example of why it won't be a blowout.
For.
Clinton.
Bernie is going to rally at the end, and close the double digit numbers to a single digit numbers, slowing Clinton's ascension WAY the fuck down.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)
LonePirate
(13,417 posts)The Venn diagram between the two sets of hatters shows considerable overlap, unsurprisingly.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)I think this will the final post wherein I will will submit to being lectured by your self-righteousness.
aaaaaa5a
(4,667 posts)This is nothing compared to 2008. And the party still came together to get a democrat elected to the whitehouse twice.
This division is not that strong for a Presidential primary season. We will all be together by the time the convention concludes this summer. And we will all be working to keep the whitehouse this fall.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)by any stretch of the imagination.
Trying to get her elected is a threat to progressivism, and most likely will result in President Trump.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)She's a Centrist conservative who knows she can't win by showing her true intent. She has to sound like a progressive to get us to vote for her.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts) 
kydo
(2,679 posts)On Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:01 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Wow, The Hillary Hate Is Becoming Intense on this Forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511335314
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
DU and those that don't support Hillary are nothing like Free Republic. That is rude and hurtful and insulting.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:05 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Statements as ridiculous as this should be viewed by all. Everyone needs a chuckle every now and then.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Poorly stated, not well thought out, but that doesn't make it hide-worthy. Discuss opposing viewpoints instead.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The OP is right. Leave it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The comparison is astute. It also applies to Hillary people as well though.
Sadly this is par for the course in GDP these days.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
======
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Voted to leave, as it should but...
Explanation: The comparison is astute. It also applies to Hillary people as well though.
I think one of the few things all can agree on, we will not look at the other side of the liberals the same. I think this split is deep and permanent.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)But they are good at projecting that hate back at themselves.
Again, as you have stated, it sounds like another site completely.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)In the last week, I've seen the dailycaller, Washington Free Beacon, and, just this morning, Kerry Jackson at Investors Business Daily, used as sources to attack Democrats at DU.
DU used to have standards. It used to be that only contructive criticism of Democrats was permitted here.
Sadly, those days are long gone. IMO, it was a giant mistake to allow any and all criticism of Democrats to be posted at DU.
Now, it's a free-for-all.
Sid
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)And Monica Lewinsky and wnd.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)recognition that Bernie is a leader who is willing to lead us out from under the yoke of oligarchical tyranny.
Maybe the odds don't favor Bernie's success. But, such as they might be, those odds have a much greater chance of improving the corrupt political system that America now has.
There is no way in Hell that Hillary is going to take on the moneyed Establishment. She is a proven panderer for them.
And worse than that, Trump doesn't know anything about Governing, Cruz wants to hand the Government over to the rabid right wing
dominionists and Rubio is a shallow kid pretending to be a statesman.
We can either go with Bernie, who actually might start a major revolution in Government, or simply "punt" by voting for anyone else. Slim chances are better than no chances.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)And the hate for her policies and the way she behaves, lies, manipulates and drags our party into disaster is shared by everyone--except those in the Hillary bubble.
It's not just on Free Republic. No Republicans like her. They despise her. Her polls with Independents are in the toilet. And half of the Democratic party can't stand her.
You've just spotlighted the fact that she has no path to the White House.
Half of the country doesn't vote--that means about 20 percent of the population are self-described Democrats. Half of the Dem party is for Hillary. That's 10 percent of the U.S population. You're vastly outnumbered.
The majority in this country do not trust her or like her.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Some of the hate looks to me like bullshit, but candidate Clinton has few good answers to our most pressing concerns.
JudyM
(29,233 posts)
Mufaddal
(1,021 posts)I know, hard to believe.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)If you think it's all about Bernie, you're neither listening to him or his supporters.
There are issues -- both specific and symbolic -- behind this that are much bigger and deeper than the "rah rah" match between Clinton and Sanders.
Bernie is just the messenger, and the one candidate who acknowledges a hard truth that Democrats like Clinton have been ignoring and/or condoning for decades.
Stop being so damn simplistic and dismissive. You're smarter than that.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)They feed on each other's attacks and it just gets worse and worse and uglier and uglier. I hope most of them come to their senses once this primary is settled.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Both sides have thrown enough that a good portion will not come back together.
It is natural. We have had other parties in the country and I think both the Republican and Democratic Parties are on the way out.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)You advocate, as I do, that people should organize around goals rather than around other people. But then seem to say that we have to unequivocally support a person and that seems something like "worship" which you condemned.
(?)
Zambero
(8,964 posts)once the nomination process is complete. A Trump presidency is utterly unacceptable, and that case does not need to be argued here. At the end of the day, arguments over who is electable or unelectable, or who is the real progressive need to be laid to rest. At this point from an individual's perspective, there is much at stake in securing victory for either Bernie or Hillary as a Presidential preference, and not the other, but there is much to lose if Trump (or any Republican for that matter) gets into the White House. It is counter-productive for Democrats to try to match the level of bile being spewed on the right-wing side these days. Make no mistake about it, they will ultimately rally behind Trump warts and all, even those who now proclaim that they can't stand the guy. Republicans hate Hillary with a passion and on a purely ideological basis they despise all things Bernie as well. The big guns will be aimed at either of them, and for a Democrat to not cast a vote in a potentially close election is a de-facto Republican vote. There is no need to jump on the right-wing take-down bandwagon if our preferred candidate does not get the nomination. Democrats can either unite to win, or hand the country over to the GOP on a silver platter. That is the choice.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Wait until you're dealing with the real world.
Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Thank you in advance
jillan
(39,451 posts)Eat magic fairy dust while riding around on rainbow colored ponies? Isn't that what us Bernie supporters are told around here?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It was sickening to watch. I don't hate her, but she is a terrible human being.
And I find the idolizing of Hillary here much more intense than the idolization of Bernie. The Hillary supporters simply dismiss every disastrous decision Hillary has made. She's been on both sides of so many issues it is dizzying to follow. Bernie represents the ideals of the New Deal and always has, that is what his supporters are excited about. Hillary represents the ideals of the reagan presidency with the exception of some social issues where she has "evolved". It's the 3rd way and it's the wrong way.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)"As a contrast, the GBLT community, the only truly successful progressive movement in the past 10 years, pursued a cause, not a particular leader."
Two observations:
Clinton only started supporting the only successful progressive movement in the past 10 years after the realisation of its main objective (marriage equality) was becoming inevitable. She was unfashionably late to the party, and has never explained what took her so long or what - other than polls or focus groups - changed her stubbornly bigoted mind.
The progressive movement now is arguing for reducing wealth inequality, an end to institutional racism, demilitarisation of the police and a few more direly needed reforms. Their support for Sanders springs from his commitment to those causes, not from a particular attachment to the person Sanders. He acknowledges as much by saying: "This is not about me, it is about you." Claiming that Sanders' supporters are acting like petulant children is to ignore the issues that matter to them.
One thing is for sure: the LGBT movement never won by defeatist "pragmatism" and shouting to its most enthousiastic members: "No we can't; now shut up and just trust the annointed leader."
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)like "hate" is the only possible explanation for the criticisms you can't otherwise rebut.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Gene Debs
(582 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)"This is why progressivism is not further along in America. Progressives worship individual leaders, not causes."
...is a wildly bizarre statement to see coming in support of an argument against progressives supporting the campaign that is by far the most across the board supporter of progressive policy goals in my memory that had anything resembling a chance at succeeding... and in favor of supporting the campaign that has openly insulted those policy goals and mocked them as "free this and free that and free everything".
Are you sure you're not projecting? Because I have never on this forum seen a serious argument presented for why the Clinton campaign is superior on progressive issues. Not once. I've seen electability arguments. I've seen them over and over and over. I've seen "you can't beat her she's going to win just give up" arguments. But where exactly are the "she's better on the progressive policy issues" arguments?
Progressives are not lining up behind Bernie because he's oozing charisma. They're lining up behind him because he has a life long record of supporting THEIR POLICIES and THEIR CAUSES and Clinton is a lot more spotty on that.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts) maddiemom
(5,106 posts)I just got through posting responses to several anti-Hillary posts on this forum. Was curious to see the reactions. They weren't long in coming and while mostly polite, were heavy on denial and negativity toward my views. I support Bernie, but if Hillary is the nominee, I'll vote for her. I see no reason to make the Democratic Underground the go-to site for Republican Hillary-bashing ammo.
appacom
(296 posts)
deerheadgal
(57 posts)Am hoping we can come together and elect a Democrat, but question whether or not that will happen; the ugliness and hatred seems so intense. It's gone way past healthy disagreement.
It's primary season, It's always intense.
dpatbrown
(368 posts)don't support Clinton because she is not one. And as far as "hate" goes, that's bull too.
Broward
(1,976 posts)backing a right wing candidate.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)What liberal has even one second of the day to waste on going there rather than doing constructive, healthy things...? Not much of a liberal, that's who.
CapnSteve
(219 posts)We need to realize that all this hate, all the "if Bernie is not the nominee, I will vote for Trump" BS, is exactly what the GOP wants. DU has become Herr Karl Rove's wet dream!
They have been trying to destroy Hillary for nearly 30 years, and nothing has stuck (one of my favorite moments was HRC vs. the Bengazi bunch...11 hours and they could not lay a glove on her. How great is she going to be in debates against the GOP nominee?). Are we really going to do the GOP's hatchet job for them?
Bernie has kept Hillary focused on the center of her base support (us), and has honed a winning message that will carry her to the White House. Steel sharpens steel.
My hoped for outcome is the "reverse coattails" of Donald "baby-hands" Trump gets us the Senate, and that President Clinton appoints, then the new Senate confirms Barack Obama as the new Supreme Court Justice!
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts) modestybl
(458 posts)... and they are projecting. The hate and bile that is coming from HRC supporters to the Sanders supporters is palpable and growing. I cannot have a discussion with my friends on FB or anywhere without getting an ad hominem attack.
The simple reason is that point by point they can't argue. They always end up falling back on either "No We Can't" arguments against positions a clear majority of the population (let alone Democrats) hold, or HRC is more electable. Both assumptions are demonstrably false.
The problem is, HRC is livid and contemptuous of us, and it shows, even under all the coaching, and the prepping and consultants. This is Her Turn, and the real problems of an eviscerated Middle Class a just Sanders' "single issue" - a trifle compared to the spectrum of concerns that she swims in - the concerns of the military contractor class, the Wall Street class, the corporate class. She hears THEIR concerns, but does not want to hear ours... outside of a carefully contrived political show where we figure as props.
This is a movement, not a person... but HRC insists on taking it all personally.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)Democrats voting for the Clinton philosophy makes me sick.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Prism
(5,815 posts)Because the disconnect is hilarious.
The whole reason the LGBT movement has been successful is because we don't put up with a lot of bullshit from politicians.
Do you not remember Obama's first term? When his DOJ went goofy? We were called racists and pony wanters and a billion other things under the sun, right here on this board.
Now that we have marriage equality, suddenly evvvvvvveryone was with us, all the time, 100%.
Liars.
Hillary is getting off super easy. So far.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)I will never forget or forgive being told "You have enough rights." by one of these people that now swings around this board accusing Bernie supporters of being haters.
Just ugh. Hypocrites and liars.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Where the worst thing about it was that some people were assholes on the internet.
Gay families having their lives snatched away? Yeah, yeah, well and good.
But did you know some guy on a message board somewhere said something?!
Like, what fucking glitter soaked bubble of snowflake specialty are these people living in?
Prop 8 was about their internet feelings, god damnit!
I . . . do not have enough palms for my face.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)I think I'm glad.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I support Hillary 100%, but think Sanders is a find 2nd choice, and will cheerfully vote for him in the fall if he...somehow by some miracle...wins the nomination.
What goes on in here is a fringe bubble of hate and unrealistic stubbornness that tries to paint Hillary as the next Antichrist. It is not representative of the general Sanders supporter, who sees the big picture rather than the handful of issues on which Sanders and Clinton disagree on.
Clinton isn't going to nominate the next Scalia, nor defund Planned Parenthood, nor disparage every non-Caucasian in the world, nor gut the ACA, for starters.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,412 posts)is accurate and can, I believe, in some measure be applied to both of our candidates...
for some here that say if their person isn't the nominee they wont vote and thus empower
T-Rump/Cruz/Rubio/Whomever is unconscionable to me
Herman4747
(1,825 posts)...she won't try to have a bill passed reinstating Glass-Steagall, no, her husband did away with that.
She won't try to cut down on world-wide fracking, no, she has promoted fracking abroad.
She won't strive for peace with the Iranians; she'll be happy to make sure that the Iranians regard her as an enemy
She won't seek Jimmy Carter's advice with regards to foreign policy, no, but she will consult with her good buddy, Henry Kissinger
She won't try to cut down on any pernicious influence of big banks, no, she is too ashamed to tell Americans what she told Goldman Sachs
I don't know, maybe you could explain it to me -- why vote for a Bill Clinton, when you could instead vote for an FDR?
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...the blind support for someone like Hillary over the years has been so devastating to so many people's lives... ...that she gets a pass for being so dismissive and condescending says much about those who see it as acceptable...
She and Trump are the perfect examples of the kind of elitism that is tearing our country apart... We get it... They think they are 'more equal' than the rest of us...
And that, is their real argument to the rest of the so-called 'elite'...
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)and then calling her a liar is NOT hatred
Quoting other people who find her dishonest is NOT hatred.
I hate her politics. I do not HATE her.
I don't hate anyone.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)"This is why progressivism is not further along in America. Progressives worship individual leaders, not causes. As a contrast, the GBLT community, the only truly successful progressive movement in the past 10 years, pursued a cause, not a particular leader. Marriage equality and the end of the military ban, were both successful without a major leader leading the way."
What is the GBLT Community? What is Progressivism and is that a new word? Also, movements can be successful with or without a leader but we are talking about electing a President of the United States so what does A have to do with B?
Again 43 Folks Recommended This...Okay...
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Must be a Interesting Thursday as the #WhichHillary Hashtag Has Taken Over Twitter....
Stuckinthebush
(10,844 posts)Absolutely disgusting.
Thankfully this will be over soon and many of the hate filled posters will be gone.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)There's very little "Hillary hate" that hasn't been mirrored by Hillary supporters...often, within the Hillary group itself...or on some Hillary supporting site.
Claiming this place reads like free republic, while being part of a group that frequently ignores cited factual arguments against Hillary, is incredibly disingenuous... your op even serves as an attack on Bernie supporters... calling them names - "petulant children".
I bet you even expect that making such comments wont elicit a reciprocal response...and then you'll have more outrage when it happens... all while being, at least, partly responsible for it. The hypocritical - How dare Bernie supporters criticize Hillary... their just a bunch of petulant children - is pretty glaring.
If that isn't clear enough, let me say it plainly; You are part of the problem.
It's equally disingenuous to cite people saying that it was over for Hillary after Nevada (Which I've never seen... but doesn't really matter), when Hillary supporters said all kinds of derogatory comments regarding Bernie's chances before any of the caucuses.
The reason why progressivism is not further along in America is because of the fear of pushing for what people actually want...versus what they're told is achievable... full stop.
Ask any Bernie supporter why they are excited and enthusiastic about him... and chances are very high you'll hear them say he represents what they believe in... and probably that he's the first politician to actually represent their beliefs.
If Bernie supporters were just looking for a leader, Hillary would do just fine... but that's just not the case. Bernie is merely an agreed rallying point... a shot across the bow of the establishment that we're sick and tired of business-as-usual politics.
You seem to think successful causes and causes with leaders are mutually exclusive. That's just not the case. In every movement there are always leaders. Always. And those leaders are there for the cause members to rally around. Support for Bernie is no different.
Duval
(4,280 posts)We are tired of "third way" politics. They don't work and the Middle Class has been marginalized.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)If so, then that says it all, right there.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Those that champion the status quo, and those who are pissed off at the status quo.
You call the latter "haters."
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Defending Kissinger, attacking FDR, insisting liberals just want free stuff.
Progressives worship individual leaders, not causes.
That right there is pure 100% grade A projection. If you'd asked people if they'd defend Henry Kissinger a year ago, they'd have told you you were out of your mind. Now that Hillary likes him? Now he's an ok guy and people need to stop talking about him. There is literally nothing Hillary can do wrong for her supporters because Hillary doing it is what makes it ok.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)DrBulldog
(841 posts)Our criticism of Hillary Clinton is based on decades on documented evidence. We don't just make crap up and throw out wild speculative unproven assertions as the Hillary gang does.
"... acting like petulant children ..."
And we don't call other people names, either.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Same level of animosity and disregard for context or even fairness.
It also reeks of desperation. Some actually thought that Sanders would be the nominee.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)It also not good for our chances in November. If this party fractures like the Republicans did when the tea party became prominent we are in big big trouble. Get ready for President Trump.
The country keeps moving further and further away from each other. I have always thought of myself as a progressive, but I am realistic about what we can accomplish. I am not a progressive by the definition of some of the progressives here, but I am a Democrat.
Both sides need to stop the hateful speech. We are beginning to look like the Republican circular firing squad, we are damaging two strong candidates. I'm sure this will draw some hate from one side or the other.
I will vote for the nominee of our party because the Supreme Court is the most important thing right now. Trump plus Republicans in Senate and House and our country is toast.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And those pesky facts and Clinton history from the last 30 plus years, are gumming up her Coronation.
Sorry about that.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)doing more harm than good for the Progressive Cause. It will take decades to repair the damage!
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)Ryano42
(1,577 posts)And I will support either come the general without mental reservation or purpose of evasion! 
Idolization is bad in general; it's the reason that so many HERE are so angry with Obama. He has done so well under such unprecedented adversity and yet people truly hate him here because he didn't live up to their god-like expectation.
I pointed it out, and was banned from the Bernie group for pointing this out, that there will be a day when President Sanders compromises or cannot come through for them then some will hate him too.
Striving for our core goals and focusing on them no matter WHO is in makes us tenacious, unhalting and ever moving forward.
The amount of quitting and defeatism I read here shows how little we want to work and how much we just want to worship...
L.T.B.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)"Striving for our core goals and focusing on them no matter WHO is in makes us tenacious, unhalting and ever moving forward.
The amount of quitting and defeatism I read here shows how little we want to work and how much we just want to worship. "
Totally agree.
Jon Ace
(243 posts)Been like this for a while.
fbc
(1,668 posts)I'm not surprised that people are waking up to how the Third Wayers have corrupted the democratic party.
JohnnyRingo
(18,624 posts)It's gotten so crazy I'm sure many Hillary supporters just don't post anymore. They know she'll win in the end, and it just isn't worth the aggravation and name calling.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 02:59 PM - Edit history (1)
weird, irrational clouds of "hate" that come over people like spells, for no reason. No, it is anger and disgust with Hillary's actions, positions, fabrications, flip-flopping for political viability, eagerness to capitulate to the right and corporate interests, and her backstabbing of the progressive base.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Here's another Yavin4 2008 nugget of gold:
"Congrats Hillary Supporters, your campaign is in league with Rush Limbaugh! You should all be so proud of yourselves."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5032510
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Flip-flopping is something Yavin has in common with Hillary.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)that is not required in order to switch sides or to support a person you did not previously support. 'Wow' says the OP as if the OP had never seen such invective, when in fact the OP has personally authored tons of that exact same Hillary hating verbiage. 'Wow' says the OP, with a total lack of honesty, 'Wow'.
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)He's my choice.
Response to Yavin4 (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Proud Veteran
(35 posts)Have also noticed all of the Hillary bashing from the Bernie supporters. Bernie has great progressive ideas
but in this political climate, he is not electable.
If you look at the primary calendar, Hillary should have 2/3s of the needed delegates after 3/15 and will be well on her way to the nomination. Bernie being the class act that he is will throw his full support her way. My hope is that his many followers will do the same.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)moondust
(19,972 posts)obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)jalan48
(13,859 posts) Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Some more from that same thread., Yavin4 on Hillary and her supporters, March 2008:
"Spitzer's scandal serves as a reminder of the chance the Dems will be taking by putting Bill Clinton back into the White House. Like it or not, Bill's legacy is that of a womanizer, and Hillary's presidency will become hostage to any new sex scandal.
So, to the Dems in PA, take a good look at the Spitzer scandal in NY. Do you want that for a Democratic president?"
"Hey, Nothing Stops Her From Exploiting Any Issue Because I'm The One Who Invented the "Kitchen Sink" Strategy
Oh wait, that was Hillary. Why should Obama's camp play the rules? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. "
"Fact: Bill Clinton Had Extra Marital Affairs
Fact: Such affairs badly damaged his presidency.
Fact: If Bill Clinton gets back into the White House and is discovered having another sexual affair, it will badly damage Hillary's presidency.
Those are facts. Deal with them."
"Returing Bill Clinton to the WH runs the risk of another sex scandal, and if you don't think that the Republicans will exploit this, then you're wrong."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5013012
That's all from one thread. So it is super ironic to hear you, author of all that verbiage, complaining about 'Hillary hate' when in 2008 you yourself were typing up tons of the exact sort of materials you now find so deeply objectionable when done by others.....
Changing one's opinion is fine. But indulging in extremes of rhetoric on both sides of one candidate or issue does undermine one's credibility.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hillary is about Hillary.
There is no substance to her platform. She has no unique ideas. She is just about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary - oh and being a woman.
And just in case, I also am a woman.
Hillary has no substance. Her platform has no substance. Her campaign has no substance.
It isn't hate. It is reality.
What is one idea that Hillary has proposed that has anything new or exciting about it? Just one.
Why do you support Hillary?
We Bernie supporters have asked that over and over of Hillary supporters, and we don't get any even half-way persuasive or decent answers.
There is one Hillary supporter who expresses him/herself with a series of Ha! Ha!s and thinks he/she is adding to the discussion.
Hillary's campaign is a big, fat zero when it comes to exciting proposals or ideas. She's got nothing.
Bernie is full of ideas that are appealing and that will unite the country.
Feel the Bern! is not about Bernie as a person. It is about feeling the excitement of positive change, of working together as a nation, as becoming a real country. Bernie is not rigid in his thinking. He is not vindictive. He represents a cause.
Do you know what the cause is that Bernie represents??????
Cause I think maybe a lot of Hillary fans have missed it.
THE CAUSE THAT BERNIE IS WORKING FOR IS DEMOCRACY. That's it. I will say it again since it seems that a lot of Hillary supporters have missed it:
D E M O C R A C Y.
That is why Bernie talks about getting the big money out of politics, about returning our government to the people. Studies have shown that wealthy oligarchs are actually running our country. Hillary represents those oligarchs.
Bernie represents the wishes of the people. DEMOCRACY.
So I hope this is clear.
The OP does not understand what is going on.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)
Wibly
(613 posts)Pretty damned easy to write off critical review as "hate". The Republicans do it all the time. However, it does not wash.
Criticizing Clinton for her double speak, her flip flop, her ties to Wall Street, her failure to be wholly honest about her activities, and her abuse of public trust is not hatred.
Nor is criticizing her negative advertising and campaigning.
Its critical review.
I find your post is little more than negative campaigning and pigeon holing. Clearly, some people around here think any sort of critical review is hate. Those people would be wrong.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)And no I won't provide a fucking link, I've been through too many of those threads. I'm tired of finding links for people who can't look anything up but are completely 1000% confident Hillary's the one.
Hypocrisy much?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Yavin4 worte in March of 2008
"Bottom line with her is that she is a divisive figure, and she cannot help her fellow Democrats on the ticket. She will motivate the Republicans to rally around McCain. In the end, we will get a bitterly divided government, and that means that NOTHING will change policy-wise. Nothing on Iraq. Nothing on the economy. Nothing whatsoever.
If you think that I am wrong, I refer you to Bill Clinton's presidency. Given the tremendous economic growth that we enjoyed during the late 90s, the Democrats should have been the majority party for years. We should have held onto the presidency, and dominated the government. As we all know, just the opposite happened.
Why? Because the Clintons only care about their own political success, and the rest of the party can go to hell as far as their concerned. Why do you think that Kerry lined up behind Obama?
In the end, if you think that things are going to change for the better with Clinton as the nominee, you are dead wrong."
" To deny that the Clintons are toxic to their fellow Democrats is to be blind."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4894954
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)This is as much meta as was the one that was locked up.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Worse on the HRC side. And Bernie groups ask legitimate questions about her record and her ties, and marshall actual facts. These get labeled as "attacks".
George II
(67,782 posts).....this will all be over by Tuesday night.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)in part because of the passion and skill of those who supported the cause and in part because it didn't really cost money. It really wasn't a lack of hero-worship.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)cost plenty of money.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)Costs to you and me don't really matter.
It's also pennies compared to a real redistribution of wealth from the 1% to the 99%.
Martin Eden
(12,863 posts)I agree the animosity directed at Hillary Clinton (call it "hate" if you will) has, among some Bernie supporters, become so bitter and divisive that it is counterproductive to the cause and therefore irrational. Some Hillary supporters have also been bitter and irrational.
I disagree this is the result of worshipping the candidate (Bernie Sanders) rather than the cause (progressive reform).
It's the result of decades of frustration and resentment at a Democratic Party establishment that has taken the progressive vote for granted while taking corporate cash and representing big money interests instead of the people.
Hillary Clinton is the chosen candidate of that establishment. She is an impediment to desperately needed change, while Bernie Sanders is the only viable candidate who has consistently throughout his political career been a champion for what should be the policies and values of the Democratic Party.
This election is critically important. A peaceful political revolution is required.
Passions are aroused, which is better than apathy.
While our hearts must be all in for the cause, we must also be governed by our heads and understand that a broad coalition is necessary for this political revolution to succeed.
Burning bridges does not help the cause.
Neither does hurling insults like "petulant children."
smiley
(1,432 posts)Even if Hillary does manage to steal the primary from the popular vote with super delegates, she will surely lose G.E.
Ignoring this and claiming hate of those that support a true progressive candidate is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "la la la la la". Unless of course you truly do agree with your conservative politics, then by all means vote your heart and vote for Clinton. You're obviously super duper OK with the ole' US of A!
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)This is so backwards.
I mean, I thought Bernie supporters were too idealistic? ie...they were attracted to the "impossible" Bernie positions on health care insurance, Wall Street, College education etc...
For me at least, that is why I lean towards Bernie. If Warren had run on the same issues I'd back her. If Hillary ran on such a progressive platform I'd back her too!
The fact is that you see more pro-Bernie OPs and ones critical of Hillary because it has become quite clear that the majority of DUers are feelin the Bern. Simple as that.
Also I think we see what we want to see. It is always the OTHER supporters that are being rude. Also there are extremists in either camp whose posts are always remembered more. One should be able to rise above the rude minority and vote on the issues. If someone actually votes for a candidate because an anonymous supporter of the other one called them a bad name on a message board then I'd feel sorry for them if they allowed that to "trump" their decision making about who they vote for as their next President.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Hillary! The next president must be a woman, everything else doesn't matter!!!!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511330938
Umbral18
(105 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I base my vote on causes, not leaders, or party.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)It was the consensus of the hosts that this was disruptive meta.
Thanks.
A forum for general discussion of the Democratic presidential primaries. Disruptive meta-discussion is forbidden.
