2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhen the #1 most liberal Senator and his supporters are the "racist" wing of our party we've lost it
If the goal for our party is to have zero credibility with independents, and to generally look like we have no idea how to actually vet and evaluate a candidate and his/her positions, we are beyond exceeding.
We are (no joke) calling the nation's most liberal senator a racist. If we're saying it simply to elevate an opposing candidate, we're liars. If we truly believe he's racist, we're nuts.
After this new low, how do we expect as a party to ever be taken seriously again?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)calguy
(5,223 posts)is coming from the desperate Berniacs as they post so much hate.
You think it's desperate now? Wait till Wednesday after the primaries. You'll be plenty desperate then. the writing is already on the wall. All the hate posts in the world won't change it.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)for a Democrat not to support Hillary Rodhan Clinton.
Just in case.
Unknown Beatle
(2,672 posts)We get it. Hillary took money from Goldman Sachs because that will help her win the presidency, and then she will rein them in by telling them to cut it out. After doing that she will unshackle herself from the Goldman Handcuffs (yes, that's actually Hillary's Goldman Sachs nickname which is obviously a reference to golden handcuffs) and free us from the predators from hell.
Hey, that's a great name for a death metal band, "Predators From Hell".
riversedge
(69,727 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)a great quote from her recent piece at Salon.
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/25/fight_the_soulless_juggernaut_big_money_machine_politics_and_the_real_issue_separating_sanders_and_clinton/
Oh, and yeah, pay attention to that video. There was no mush-mouthed, Sourthern-friend dialect on display while addressing those wealth donors was there?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:43 PM - Edit history (1)
Even Richard Nixon (and consider the sinister implications of the phrase "even Richard Nixon" didn't stoop to that kind of horseshit. And when you're measuring degrees of slipperiness and insincerity in Nixon units, you're already over an aquarium full of sharks.
" And when you're measuring degrees of slipperiness and insincerity in Nixon units, you're already over an aquarium full of sharks."
That was beautifully put, and I think you owe me a new LCD display after spewing my hot ginger water all over it!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)occasionally amuse.
TM99
(8,352 posts)MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)Naw, she's just nuts.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)72DejaVu
(1,545 posts)I wouldn't compare her to Nixon. I don't think much of her, but I can't picture her strolling on the beach in a suit.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)make sure someone records that one.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)she isn't afraid of pissing people off when telling it like she sees it. I'm not saying I agree with her all the time, but she's always entertaining and thoughtful and thought-provoking.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Hillary is most at home with people like Lloyd Blankfein.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)"What we have here, fellow citizens, is a crassly egocentric, raving twit. The Norman Podhoretz of our gender. That this woman is actually taken seriously as a thinker in New York intellectual circles is a clear sign of decadence, decay, and hopeless pinheadedness. Has no one in the nations intellectual capital the background and ability to see through a web of categorical assertions? One fashionable line of response to Paglia is to claim that even though she may be fundamentally off-base, she has 'flashes of brilliance.' If so, I missed them in her oceans of swill."
TM99
(8,352 posts)"If left to my own devices, I'd spend all my time pointing out that he's [Bill Clinton] weaker than bus-station chili. But the man is so constantly subjected to such hideous and unfair abuse that I wind up standing up for him on the general principle that some fairness should be applied. Besides, no one but a fool or a Republican ever took him for a liberal."
I am quite certain she would say the same thing about Hillary.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Beartracks
(12,761 posts)It's troubling that any of them would actually believe it to be true.
It's equally troubling if they're just lying.
================
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)There's an argument to be made, depending on how you use the word, that all white people are racist. But that definition does not mean 'racially bigoted', but more 'benefiting from systemic institutional racism'. And certainly even by that definition, Sanders is less racist than Clinton, because he's trying to change the status quo, and the status quo in this country supports racism. That's probably too much of a nuanced argument to have with voters at large at this point in time, though. More than half the white voters in the country probably don't even believe in white privilege.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)it's a solid argument.
emulatorloo
(43,982 posts)i have seen critiques of the Sanders campaign's outreach to AA voters. Very often with suggestions for how he could connect better with AA voters.
And then I've seen those posts mischaracterized as "You are calling Bernie a racist."
But that's a mischaracterization.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)(yet) and someone said "it's not enough". And then people began lying, saying people called Bernie a racist.
Meanwhile Bernie knew better and adjusted his stump speech and his website to add social justice issues.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)at Sanders rallies = racist.
You are really good at erecting straw men and then titling at their windmills. No one including Sanders has hailed him as the Great White Hope of Civil Rights. Period.
Therefore it is hard to take you seriously when you start from a flawed premise.
What is damned sure is that Sanders support for economic and social justice is a hell of a lot more inline with the writings of both MLK and Malcolm X than the water-downed platitudes of a neoliberal who wants to distract us with racial division while she and her crony's laugh all the way to the bank.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)= calling him tonedeaf to race.
merrily
(45,251 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Personally, I never found them clever or effective, but some seem to think they're clever, or pretend to, and you apparently enjoy them, so go for it.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Got a link? I mean it's a big site. I won't fall over shocked if someone called him a racist. But I have not seen that.
merrily
(45,251 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)About Manny's August poll? Huh? That's weird.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe you should stick to the facts.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)And I agree, that poll wasn't it.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)yep, I guess I should have said "rabidly, dishonestly, disingenuously, and repeatedly implied he is" instead of "called him."
My bad.
merrily
(45,251 posts)So is the "If you don't dance to my tune, you're proved yourself wrong" game.
For me, they all alternate somewhere between boring and faintly nauseating.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)People voted for the 'yes I think he's a racist' option.
Many other posts were thinly veiled accusations so please stop claiming no one ever said it.
merrily
(45,251 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)elephant. She forgets nothing. Even I am amazed by her sometimes.
merrily
(45,251 posts)My memory is pretty good, but, as I said, I averted my eyes from a lot intentionally. I just don't click on certain kinds of thread titles and I skim past certain kinds of posts. I got the drift a long time ago. I don't see a point in reading the same point a million times, especially, when I am not sure of the motivation.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Her specific area of study was the hammer-headed snarks?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)people who request links for stuff that is as widespread on DU and as plain as I assume the respective noses on their respective faces are. Often stuff they've done themselves many times. I'm just over so much of it.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That poll is easily googled and there are more links to smears against Bernie in my journal if anyone ever needs them.
Once in a while it's nice to prove a point.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I would believe it with a link, but nobody seems to have one.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Most were BS, imho. I think his economic message was working just fine. Then again I don't think one has preface every economic message with one about race. Economic and racial justice are intimately connected.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)It's HER TURN and that meanie old meanie-pants Bernie Sanders is trying to keep her from what is HERS by RIGHT. So they can tell ANY lie in the service of their JUST CAUSE.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I have not seen that. Link?
merrily
(45,251 posts)MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)You need to unhide those groups first.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Also applies to his supporters.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)But I haven't seen anyone call him a racist. If you think acknowledging his tone deafness on the issue is "implying" he's a racist I would say it sounds like the same old same old from his supporters. They seem to be experts at using their imagination.
merrily
(45,251 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)This place is loony tunes on a good day.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)It's unreal.
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)a wedge issue is becoming progressively less effective. Get it? 'Progressively?' LOL
I guess you had to be there...
Seriously, more people are beginning to see through the divide and conquer stuff. Let's just hope it is in time.
By the way, most people in the US haven't even thought about the election or the candidates at this point. I don't think we need to worry much about that now.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Three people voted yes.
Note to jury: people were requesting a link so I obliged, it's not against the TOS to link to threads. Thank you for serving.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)There's a lot of selective recall around here.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Or was Manny.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Keep trying to move the goalposts, I expected it.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I don't see anyone in the thread saying that. I think your 3 poll people were just snarking back at Manny. Is this the basis of the OP? A poll from August with no one posting anything about Bernie being racist?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're not calling them liars are you?
The challenge was to find someone who thinks Bernie is racist, I provided three.
Game over.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,898 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I don't dare link to individual posts because they alert on me when I do, so thanks!
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)is endorsing someone that employed dog whistles against Obama in 2008. Which shows how much integrity the establishment has, and how shallow the bench must be for the Third Way brand that they have to keep with someone who has immense negatives because there is no new blood with "name recognition". Hell, they're endorsing family political dynasties to boot.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I tend to think of myself as deeply politically cynical, but even that was overwhelmed by the incredibly unified Party work on behalf of the corporatist candidate in the primary, as well as the people stepping forward to smear Sanders. Sanders has a 100% NARAL rating for his time in office, but Planned Parenthood steps out of the wings to get completely behind Clinton in the primary? Pretty much every TV pundit has worked overtime to ignore Sanders as long as possible, then belittle him when they can no longer ignore him, and some even push smears? Civil Rights icons step forward to join in on the smears?
The entire system of politics and media is desperately throwing everything in the books to stop him, even though if elected, the chances he'll be able to effect any real and lasting change to the system are slim. But the rot runs so deep that no one who benefits from the status quo wants to even take the risk that he might change anything.
Sanders isn't perfect. I don't agree 100% with his stance on guns, he's still too pro-Israel and pro-military action, and his vote on the crime omnibus was bad. (And his statement on why he voted for me is what I find most troubling - he KNEW it was a bad vote at the time, and still essentially traded the lives of one group of victims for the lives of a different group of victims because he judged one group to be 'more innocent'.) It's why I was against the ACA. It helped one set of people, but made things worse for others. And I'd rather keep fighting to just make things better for people, WITHOUT victimizing anyone else.
But imperfect or not, the system needs to change, and change drastically. And there's no chance of that with Clinton.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)It seems a lot of the anger directed at Bernie is projection from the cognitive dissonance of supporting Clinton.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)The "racist wing of the party"? Nobody thinks that. Quit demonizing people who don't think Bernie is the best chance we have to keep the White House. I happen to like Bernie- I would vote for him if he's the nominee. I am not all the evil things you accuse Hillary supporters of being.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)fredamae
(4,458 posts)thread title-Lindsey Graham stating "My Party Is Batshit Crazy"
Well, it looks like the Dems (using gop tactics) aren't far behind.
First they ignore you (for decades now)-Then they Laugh (and call you a crazy dreamer), Then they fight you (lying liars have found a perfect labor market) and now, about all we have left to do is Get Out The Damned VOTE to Win
It's going to get worse. A lot worse. Buckle up your emotions.
They (corpoEverybody) are in a corner now. They're beginning to panic...we know because "their Nasty Lying Ugly" is dialed Up.
Onward, Upward...don't let "it" get to you.