2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMost Americans Don't Deserve Someone Like Bernie
Last edited Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:58 AM - Edit history (1)
I am blue n the face talking to other liberals here in Georgia.
Friends and family members that agree with me on most political issues won't even consider Bernie.
The won't even watch his stump speech on utube.
They just can't get past the word Socialist.
They claim that Bernie would be destroyed by Trump or any republican.
I've shown them the many polls showing Bernie doing better than Hillary against Trump.
They don't believe those polls.
So, here I am with all of this.
Someone smart once said that we get the government that we deserve.
Bernie is too good.
He's too honest and caring.
Most of us dint deserve someone like him yet. Sigh.
Maybe someday America will.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Just my own personal observations.
Am I not, as a loyal blue dog Dem who will work for Hillary in the general, allowed to feel this disappointment?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)When you are advocating in Georgia, do you ask them what it is they
want to see in their government they don't see now?
Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)A sea of very red, marooness in the rest of the state.
The repubs own every state position of power and have a Super majority in statehouse.
This happened when Gov Sonny Perdue and many other former yellow dog Dems switched parties.
I can't talk to those people.
They are all racist, xenophobic, homophobic, semi morons.
The liberals here are not like northern state liberals.
Most have some conservative positions on god, guns, and gays.
So, you have to pick your arguments carefully.
Most want to just not be laughed at when they claim to be a Democrat.
That's why they could never add the word Socialist onto the word Democrat.
I don't understand why Hillary supporters are laughing at me or my statements.
I greatly admire her.
She's just not as liberal as me. Bernie is.
But I will work like heck for Hillary to beat Trump.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)If Bernie loses the nomination I will be voting against any Republican, has nothing
to do with support for Clinton, that's how she gets my vote in the GE.
You certainly have your work cut out for you. Have you been working with
the Sanders campaign in your area?
When you speak to voters if you ask them what is important to them
you may get info back that allows them to consider Bernie...before
you just go into what his platform is about. I would encourage you
to look at the conservatives in Vermont, I know they are a different
breed than Georgia, but they may be more like your Georgia Dems.
They like Bernie, and have supported him, some people see that as
a bad thing, I don't. There might be a bridge of commonality in approach
you could use to help people consider Bernie.
Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Hillary will beat Bernie by at least 20 points here in Georgia and probably more than30.
We are not wasting our time on Georhia but instead phone banking to more winnable places like Massachusetts.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Others who r realists....Move on type folks....not leadership,,,just rank and file.
Winning Mass is much more important than trying to brin down the totals and, eve, delegates in what will be a Georgia Hillary landslide Tuesday.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)course that is up to you.
RKP5637
(67,101 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)The reasons change, but the message is always the same:
"We can't do anything proactive now because: The GOP has the WH...the GOP has control of Congress....We have the WH and control of Congress but the GOP has enough people to block anything we do....We have a mixed Congress..... ...and the currently implausible 'We have overwhelming majority in Congress and the White House -- but we can't do anything because that will only revitalize the GOP.'"
.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)I can't tell anymore.
Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)You haven't encountered any fellow Democrats who say that the word Socialist disqualifies Bernie for their consideration?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)nuthin' will!
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)The GOP/DNC have fixed the procedural requirements over the last few months
so as to preclude that possibility going forward.
If Bernie wins, of course, the game may change in the favor of the People.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)That will really win over the voters.
Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Just Telling you what I've experienced in my social circle.
Why does that bother you?
I didn't say one disparaging word about Hillary. Nor will I. She is my second choice and a quality, brilliant person.
LexVegas
(6,041 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)but I say that Bernie is actually going to be the next President.
I know it doesn't look like it. I know it sounds like wishful thinking . . but, there are many reasons and subtle indicators that point to it.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Can't believe they added Tootie and that she's a real religious conservative.
vdogg
(1,384 posts)That I am unworthy to be in the presence of his eminence.
randome
(34,845 posts)And if his past quarter century of purity was known at the time, why weren't people talking him up before now?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Other than having worked in about 10 different local, state, and federal campaigns in the past 30 years and keeping my tv on cspan 2 most of the time...esp when the Senate is in session.
Voted in every election my entire life.
I phone bank for many endangered Dems nationally.
And, yes, I have admired Bernies positions for many years.
Always thought he was a little droll and too crusty for my taste.
Still do, at times.
It's his policy positions that draw me to him, not his personality.
Why test my political bonafides just because you don't agree with me?
randome
(34,845 posts)I agree Sanders would make a fine President. Early on, I said I would prefer just about anyone other than Clinton simply because I was tired of the entire Bush/Clinton era.
But she does seem fated to win this election so we must make the best of it. And I'm sure she will surprise many of her detractors.
I was making a generic comment about those who think Sanders is some sort of miracle man who descended from Olympus to save us.
You sound like you've been busy and that's always commendable.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)this sounds awfully cult like.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)They are taught that "Dear Leader" is so perfect he doesn't even have to relieve himself.
Funtatlaguy
(10,868 posts)Probably would not have drank the koolaid but I did enjoy the Jonestown movie.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)Godhumor
(6,437 posts)But that he could start influencing the next generation of politicians to bring his message to the masses in the future.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)The issues Bernie is leading on should have been part of the political discussion since 1990. He is not talking about some new trend or radical concept.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)when people say "I'd love a female president, just not THIS one." It seems it's NEVER time for one according to the patriarchal template.
I get your frustration, though. The problem is that Bernie has never before tried to build a movement around his issues. That's what's needed to bring about a revolution.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He, Wellstone and other progressives have been working to build a movement as a counterbalance to the GOP and Democrat Corporatism for a longtime...The fact the his campaign has come so far so fast is evidence if that.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)Bernie should have worked for years to help elect other progressives. He would probably have done better if he had joined the Dems a long time ago in order to help build the necessary infrastructure for a revolution. Suddenly running for president at the age of 74 does not a evolution make. I like Bernie, but I don't see it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)There has been plenty of activity over the years, and Bernie has been involved. For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus
The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) is the largest membership organization within the Democratic congressional caucus in the United States Congress with 69 declared members.[4] The CPC is a left-leaning organization that works to advance progressive and liberal issues and positions.[5][6][7]
The CPC is currently co-chaired by U.S. Representatives Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ) and Keith Ellison (D-MN). It was founded in 1991 and has grown steadily since then, having more recently added 20 members since 2005 and having hired its first full-time Executive Director, Bill Goold
The CPC is committed to government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Their policy agenda is rooted in four core principles: (1) fighting for economic justice and security in the U.S. and global economies; (2) protecting and preserving civil rights and civil liberties; (3) promoting global peace and security; and (4) strengthening environmental protection and energy independence. Their fundamental fairness plan reflects national priorities that are consistent with the values, needs, and hopes of all Americans, not just the powerful and the privileged. Accordingly, the CPC also advocates "universal access to affordable, high quality healthcare", fair trade agreements, living wage laws, the right of all workers to organize into labor unions and engage in collective bargaining, the abolition of the USA PATRIOT Act, the legalization of same-sex marriage, US participation in international treaties such as the climate change related Kyoto Accords, strict campaign finance reform laws, a crackdown on corporate welfare and influence, an increase in income tax rates on upper-middle and upper class households, tax cuts for the poor, and an increase in welfare spending by the federal government.[8]
Legislative history[edit]
The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) was established in 1991 by six members of the United States House of Representatives: U.S. Representatives Ron Dellums (D-CA), Lane Evans (D-IL), Thomas Andrews (D-ME), Peter DeFazio (D-OR), Maxine Waters (D-CA), and Bernie Sanders (I-VT). .....Then-U.S. Representative Bernie Sanders was the convener and first CPC Chairman. Bill Goold served as Staff Coordinator for the Progressive Caucus in its early years until 1998.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)If you want to see how a revolution happens, look at the way conservatives have taken over school boards et al, gerrymandered districts to the point where they control Congress even without lifting a finger, etc. A revolution is built from the bottom up. Where are the progressives that Bernie helped elect? How can you be the leader of a revolution if you don't build one?
Not only do I pay attention to history, I've lived through and participated in huge social transformation as a young person in South Africa. I have seen first hand what it takes if you want to fundamentally change a society. I'm not seeing anything like that here (and I've lived in the United States now for almost two decades). I'm just seeing an old man who no longer has enough years left to build a movement, and bunch of angry, aggressive followers. I don't see a movement. So color me skeptical.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)lostnfound
(16,169 posts)Unfortunately Americans as a whole are entertained to death, worked to death, and made to feel marginalized in politics.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)lostnfound
(16,169 posts)In my opinion, Americans are trained to be passive and entertained to death from birth.
Organizations like the Tea Party arise because they are funded by the billionaires who expect a payback in political power.
It's gone beyond political favors into direct political power, because in the Bush years, the lobbyists have been able to literally WRITE the legislation that gets voted upon.
The revolutionary part of Bernie is in breaking the link between a viable presidential candidacy and corporate / superPAC money.
You are right that we don't have the big movement you saw elsewhere. You probably won't see it here, either, because the constructs in our minds have been carefully pruned from a young age.
I for one will go back to political sleep and/or drink myself into oblivion, when Bernie loses.
jcgoldie
(11,623 posts)Get ahold of yourself man this is whining.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)Though, I'm not going to let it stop me from voting for Bernie or someone else who shares my values.
In the primary AND the general.
No more voting for 'good enough' or the lesser of the two evils.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)The nation's about to fly apart. We need a person who knows how to build coalitions to work togeth-ah.
Here in Michigan, despite what the polls say, even republicans are dumping their greed long enough to vote for Bernie.
That's going from discussions with neighbors, family, strangers around SE Michigan.
In other parts of the state, they haven't heard much about Bernie. When they do, they will like what they learn.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)Less electable than a Muslim or an athiest.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Bush stole the election. Gore won and is who Americans deserved by way of the vote.
Strange way to message.
Response to Funtatlaguy (Original post)
Hiraeth This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and you think they don't deserve some relief.
This smacks of victim-blaming, I'm afraid.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Sanders is ahead, Clinton behind, because she has nothing to offer against Trump besides 1. watered-down versions of what he proposes or 2. vague liberish promises nobody trusts her to keep
the party's encouraged mislogic to keep going for 20 years, and you have to point it out to your friends that they're letting the party and its carefully-cultivated fears do their thinking for them
Bleacher Creature
(11,256 posts)Because winning the Presidency and then actually having to do something would be a harsh reality check for most of Bernie's supporters.
The fact his, he's a career politician who has been playing the game for three decades. And there's nothing wrong with that. He seems like a great guy who is on the right side of many, many issues, but running an entire branch of government takes a whole lot more than just good ideas.
In a hypothetical Sanders presidency, he either sticks to his positions and crashes and burns, or he compromises and gets accused of being a "corporatist" or "third wayer" or whatever nonsensical name is the insult of the day here. Either way, it would have been an extremely rude awakening. Better to have it all be a pipe dream, and let you keep the magical halo in your imagination.