Those who demand I fall behind the party nominee if I don't like them, consider this:

[silvershadow]

My views haven't changed in 50 years. Only the party has. I am still the same person today that I was when Nixon was impeached. I am still the same person I was when Teddy Kennedy (God rest his soul) ran against Carter. (We had a poster of Jimmy riding a horse and carrying a whip and it read "I'll kick his ass!) hanging in our kitchen. We had Billy beer in the house (though I'm sure Jimmy wasn't a fan). I'm the same person that said to my coworkers when Reagan came in that our pensions were screwed. I am the same person today that I was when Bill Clinton shafted us with NAFTA and shut my Dad's factory down. Yep, one and the same. So before you get down off your high horse consider that maybe, just maybe, some of us old-timers DO know what the hell we are talking about. As far as withholding the vote, that is not petty. I can't stomach one of the candidates on the national stage. If I don't vote, I haven't voted for anyone. The blame (if there is any) will like squarely at the feet of the voters and the candidates themselves. It is up to the candidate to earn the votes, not the other way around. So if the results aren't to your liking, maybe your weathervane was malfunctioning. I have a feeling that more than just a few politicos will see some earthquakes this cycle. As for me, I'm still standing on the same CORE Democratic values I've always had. If the party chooses not the represent those values, they just might find themselves crying over spilled milk.

[liberal_at_heart]

1. It's about time we demand the party fall in line with us, not the other way round.

[silvershadow]

2. I have trolled the heck out of DWS's FB page. She knows how I feel. I imagine she's about to have

a nervous breakdown about the unseemly position she has chosen to take.

[Hortensis]

105. Nobody's "demanding" falling in line behind anyone.

This isn't some fascist state. We will all vote as we wish.

[silvershadow]

122. I'm pretty sure that was a shot at certain insiders and their dirty tricks. nt

[The Traveler]

126. That's funny

I keep encountering people who demand that I fall in line. I guess they are Nobodies.

Trav

[WayBeyondBlue]

141. No offence, but

the thinking DWS did to arrive at her choice to throw it for Hillary did not consider even remotely how the wee people (us) feel. Don't think she'll lose any sleep over us telling her how pissed we are. The only thing that will get to her is the loss of her job. Oh, wait, but then she'll just become a lobbyist and get rich enough to buy a small island, so I guess nothing really matters at all

[Land of Enchantment]

156. Tim Canova

was inspired by Bernie and I have been donating regularly to him as well. FL 23rd Congressional District AGAINST DWS.

[silvershadow]

158. Welcome to DU. Tell us about yourself. nt

[TIME TO PANIC]

7. Damn straight!

[jillan]

27. Amen to that!

[Binkie The Clown]

49. Do you have millions of dollars to donate to the party? If not, they aren't listening to you.

Or to me, or to any one of us mere peons. After all, they know better than we do what's best for us, or didn't you realize that?

[Ferd Berfel]

125. I'm damn tired of not being represented by Corporate Stooges

[Lil Missy]

3. Nobody cares how you vote. You just can't trash the DEMOCRATIC nominee on a DEMOCRATIC mb.

[silvershadow]

4. Oh, but they DO. I was already told so.

I haven't trashed the Democratic nominee as we don't have one. I have spoken out against one of our nominees, as is allowed by the rules.

[Live and Learn]

8. You really should watch what you post. Your comments don't apply to a simple single poster

and the Democratic party really needs all the voters it can get now unless you want the party to be over.

Actually, it doesn't matter much because if Hillary wins climate change will certainly win too and we won't have a very nice environment to inhabit.

[iAZZZo]

11. "You just can't trash the DEMOCRATIC nominee on a DEMOCRATIC mb"

[center][/center]

it is february 26 2016 and there is no nominee...

[grossproffit]

15. It's obvious that they meant "when we have our nominee."

And, I hope people won't be able to openly trash or campaign against them on this forum.

#NeverTrump

[jillan]

30. I hate to break it to you but it's not up to you to tell me how to think or what to say. Besides

we do not have a nominee.

[Lil Missy]

50. I didn't make the topic about the "nominee", the OP did.

And, I was simply paraphrasing the Terms of Service for this Website, and I hate to break it to YOU, but YOU don't get to change the Terms of Service here.

[TM99]

106. The ToS that you are pushing

applies to the nominee.

Did I miss the convention? Have we jumped forward in time, and we now have THE Democratic nominee?

[Lil Missy]

111. Did you read the OP? or more likely, you choose to ignore it

[TM99]

113. I read it.

We are still in the primary. He is free to voice what he will or won't do. He is not encouraging others to do so. He is not saying he will hang out here at DU and push a write-in if Clinton wins.

So your game is just that, a game.

[Lil Missy]

114. You can't follow a thread. My response was appropriate and you are just stirring the poopie.

Bye.

[TM99]

115. No Ma'am, your thread was not.

And if anyone is stirring the shit here, well...

[gollygee]

170. It says "Those who demand I fall behind the party nominee . . ."

The OP is about the nominee, even though we don't have one yet. He or she appears to be assuming Clinton will eventually be the nominee, or she or he is speaking about the possibility of her becoming the nominee.

[TM99]

172. It is still irrelevant.

This is the primary. He is speculating about a future that is not the present.

Complain all you want, and god's know you Clinton supporters will do so, but it is not a ToS violation.

[gollygee]

174. I'm not a Clinton supporter

I can just read.

[TM99]

176. Well with all the insults

it is hard to tell.

[gollygee]

177. What insults did I make? N/t

[TM99]

178. Well you are apparently smart

enough to figure it out.

[gollygee]

179. I know I didn't insult anyone. N/t

[WayBeyondBlue]

153. So, help me understand

If candidate A wins the nomination, are supporters of candidate B expected to toe the line or drop dead?

Answer: yes. Something about the ToS.

Hmm. Food for thought. Going a-Googling for a site that embraces actual democracy. Yo silvershadow, any links you can rec?

NVM. http://independentvotersforum.newsvine.com/ for starters. TTL|DD.

[bvf]

65. Did you give a moment's thought to this before posting?

That's a lot of wrong packed into two simple sentences.

[840high]

69. How did you miss all the

loyalty oath posts?

[Wibly]

143. Not True

Depending on the moderator of a group, you can get tossed for asking a question or for identifying and obvious double standard, especially as pertains to Hillary Clinton.
Heck, I got banned from the Clinton group for just challenging the legitimacy of a comment made by one of her supporters. Until that point I was prepared to say I'd support whichever Dem candidate won. Now, no way I'll support Clinton. If she, and her supporters can withstand critical review from a little nobody like me, then they're bound to fail on the national and international levels.
In a democracy, dissent needs to be heard, accepted and addressed, not whitewashed over and blocked out.

[TIME TO PANIC]

5. K & R!

[Journeyman]

6. “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection…

[center]“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone,
and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.”

~ John Quincy Adams

[silvershadow]

29. Thank you.

[canichelouis]

74. Those that stand for nothing...

Will fall for anything.
-often attributed to Alexander Hamilton, though disputed

[SoLeftIAmRight]

9. I have been considering shit since they started killing our leaders in the 60's

I have waited my whole life to vote for Bernie Sanders and the God Damned Democrats are trying to fuck me out of the chance.

[kristopher]

22. +1

[silvershadow]

32. Yup. I have my suspects- heck, I even have a probable theory. But I won't share it

so I don't risk getting a Jury. But it's one you can believe in.

[jillan]

33. I feel the same exact way. Have waited 42 years to vote FOR a candidate for a change.

[840high]

66. +2

[GoneFishin]

98. +1000

[Karma13612]

148. + 10 I was 9 when JFK was assassinated. Never forget that kinda stuff.

VERY powerful people will do ANYTHING to make sure Bernie keeps his seat in the Senate instead of the Oval Office.

[MissDeeds]

149. They are not going to screw me out of the chance

I am voting for Bernie in the caucus and the general election.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

150. Many Many Thanks

I will sleep better - now

be well

[MissDeeds]

152. Thank you

Bernie has awakened something that I have never seen in my lifetime. It is a movement or a revolution, and it's not going to go away.

People come by the thousands to see him with only a day or two notice. People march in the streets in support of him and his message. Bernie has awakened something in us - hope.

The battle is not dead, it's just beginning.

[DonCoquixote]

10. and if President Trump wins

the people he will kill,most of whom are not in the protected end of the scale, will be just as dead as the people that W. killed. You can hate Hillary all you want to, but that will not change the fact that the GOP will they want if you do not vote against them.

[silvershadow]

12. Exactly. That's the risk we are taking. Vote wisely. nt

[DonCoquixote]

13. not voting on election day

and nto voting to keep the GOP OUT is voting wisely. Sitting it out or writing in the name of someone that will not win is not. That experimented was tried in 2000 with results we may never fix in our lifetime.

[silvershadow]

16. Good luck with your strategy. Again, it won't be on me if we choose the wrong one. nt

[grossproffit]

20. The wrong one is Trump.

[DonCoquixote]

23. It will be

if you do not vote against trump on Election day. There are many who would love to vote in your place, but sadly, they are dead in places like Iraq or New Orleans. All the "you should listened to me and Obeyed" bluster, will not wash that guilt off.

[silvershadow]

25. Nope. Won't do it. Don't even care what it might mean. If the party can't represent me,

I will find a new party at that time.

[DonCoquixote]

36. Then enjoy being the servants

of the rich, who will enjoy you being corralled into self contained ego pens where you will never have an impact, period. If you don;t care what it will mean, you never ever cared about the poor or the minorities, and many in South Carolina are acting on that knowledge right now.

The sad fact is, Bernie is not the self righteous fool his followers are, but why woudl I trust the followers who would happily throw me to the wolves as loudly and viciously as the GOP?

[scottie55]

48. The Pitchforks Are Coming

The only question is when......

[6chars]

57. being corralled into self contained ego pens where you will never have an impact

that is a hell of a good phrase.

[PonyUp]

88. "Servants of the rich". Are you sure you're supporting the candidate you think you are? n/t

[TM99]

109. Enjoy being servants of the rich eh?

You mean that will be any different with Hillary Clinton?

[DonCoquixote]

116. ask me that question

after Trump closes abortion clinics.

[TM99]

117. The wealthy have always had

access to abortions when necessary.

I prefer my justice to include both social and economic thank you very much.

[DonCoquixote]

118. indeed

and just as allowing Bush to win gave us all less, so will allowing Trump less, until the point where the evil crawls right into wherever the people who thought they would just wait until everyone obeyed them hides, drags you out into the street, at which point you will cry "why isn't anyone saving ME?" Because you let the right wing eat everyone else.

[TM99]

119. Why do some many Clinton supporters

want to rewrite history.

Gore ran a shit campaign with Liberman as his VP choice. More Democrats voted for Bush in Florida than Nader did. The SCOTUS selected GW Bush.

When Clinton loses, this is all on her and the party for choosing the worst candidate.

[davidpdx]

167. Good point TM

Also he lost his home state of Tennessee. I believe it is very rare that a candidate for president loses their home state. Gore's team also put up a fairly shitty appeal in Florida which didn't help either.

[jwirr]

131. Many of us in this thread have been telling you that we have

been waiting 40+ years to vote for change. We voted for every Democratic candidate running for president in that time. What we got was more of the mess you see us in today - an oligarchy, wealth inequality and more and more poverty. What is going to be different if we vote one more time for the same type of candidate? You say Trump won't be president. Oh goody. Maybe you should think about that when the establishment keeps offering us these do nothing presidents so that they can continue the status quo.

But you don't need us - Hillary is going to be inevitable and she will help all of us from her position in the 1%. What difference does it make that we set this one out? She is inevitable.

[DonCoquixote]

147. This experiemnt was tried in 2000

and it cost millions of lives,many of whom did not have the luxury and oh yes, privilege to vote against Bush.

[Purrfessor]

132. What they fail to understand is that should the Supreme Court shift...

7-2 to the right it could easily take two generations before there is even a chance that Demicrats could remake the court into one that leans left. In that time every bit of progress that has been made since FDR could be completely reversed. But, hey, at least they didn't vote for Hillary. Screw all of us who will suffer in this case.

[Merryland]

104. It could happen

that a new party may form out of this awful time...

[Fumesucker]

62. Dead in places like Iraq?

We know which candidate voted with the Republicans to invade Iraq and which voted against.

[Katashi_itto]

73. As a vet, I will not vote for someone who is so pro war pro TPP, Pro Crony Capitalism.

[PonyUp]

85. Thank you for your service and I agree with you. n/t

[davidpdx]

168. Katashi, I appreciate your perspective

The TPP scares the hell out of me. I believe that if it passes and is ratified South Korea (where I live) will more or less be forced to join it to stay on par with the other Asian countries who are part of it.

[PonyUp]

84. And how many of the dead in Iraq can we blame on people that voted for war? n/t

[grossproffit]

17. +infinite

[jeff47]

21. The pile of dead bodies in Syria, Libya and Iraq count too.

Guess what? The dead kids sent back to central America count too.

Guess what? The people thrown away by welfare reform count too.

Guess what? The people thrown away by mass incarceration count too.

Clinton's history does not disappear when it is inconvenient for you.

[DonCoquixote]

28. no it does not

but I know that at least with her, she can be dragged to do something less harmful, the GOP will double down on every single thing you spoke against, and then some, and you know it, and they will roll momentum so hard that even people ten time the strength of FDR would get mowed down.

Perhaps the reason Bernie gets few minority votes is because many of his followers would happily throw the darker,poorer people into the furnace to fuel the fire, for our own good, of course. It's one thing if we pick your fruit, do we have to be your human shields so that way you can fulfill your dreams, which, contrary to a lot of propaganda, never included us.

[jeff47]

43. Bullshit.

but I know that at least with her, she can be dragged to do something less harmful

Bullshit.

As soon as this pesky election is over, Clinton will do exactly what both she and her husband, as well as every other DLC-style-Democrat have done: Leap to the right and call us "fucking retarded" like Rham.

Perhaps the reason Bernie gets few minority votes is because many of his followers would happily throw the darker,poorer people into the furnace to fuel the fire

Who lobbied for Welfare reform, and even wrote a book about how wonderful it was?
Who lobbied for mass incarceration, and then made a lovely speech about how terrible superpredators were? And made her "tough on crime" accomplishments one of the cornerstones of her Senate campaign?
Who never introduced a single bill to undo any of this harm while she was in the Senate?

Again, Clinton's record does not go away when it is inconvenient. Her record is not that of protecting the people you claim to be worried about.

[DonCoquixote]

46. never claimed it was

I am saying that at least we have a chance with Clinton. If I have cancer, losing a leg would suck, yes, but it beast dying. The "I won't vote unless I get exactly what I want" strategy is like the stage four lung cancer patient who decides to take up smoking aging because it is his goddddammmmnnn righhhhht, and it is the doctor's fault if he cannot cure him.

Any chance is better than no chance. Even in Russian Roulette , you have a one in 6 chance, which is better that the tact nuke the GOP will drop, having NO chance.

[leveymg]

58. So, we're in agreement: voting for HRC is like cancer and amputation

Better than death. That would make a great bumper sticker. Not. There has to be a better alternative.

[DonCoquixote]

71. and I pity the patients whose doctors

wait for "better alternatives" when the cancer spreads.

[timmymoff]

129. It's simple

Bernie has earned my primary vote. He has also earned my general election vote. Hillary can earn my vote, but will get no money, no phone calls, no canvassing, no mentions of my "support". If that is not acceptable to others they must understand, I do not care what others think at my age. I am not morally obligated to fall into any line. The DNC will get exactly the same amount of support mentioned for Hillary. When my vote becomes more important than a fundraiser for millionaires then and only then will the democratic party earn my support again (financially and with activism).

[platitudipus]

60. +1

Guilt trips don't work on me either jeff47.

[Kall]

59. No, she certainly can't be. Not once she'll no longer need you.

but I know that at least with her, she can be dragged to do something less harmful

Her changing temporarily for being unconvincingly against the TPP for the duration of the Democratic primary doesn't count. The US Chamber of Commerce is already out there saying that she'll be for it again later, and she's taken no offence at those remarks. We already know that she worked on convincing members of Congress to pass trade agreements that she said she opposed when running last time, because her emails reflected that.

She didn't just say that single-payer wasn't her preferred way to go. She and Chelsea outright lied that Bernie Sanders would dismantle Medicare, and take health care away from millions and millions and millions of people. And then repeated the lies, about someone who had been for universal health care for decades, to the point where prominent Democrats who had endorsed her like Howard Dean and David Axelrod even said she wasn't making honest criticisms. She never came close to any kind of apology. I don't think you realize to what extent the Clinton campaign has burned bridges, bombed them, then burned them again over the past few weeks with things
like that.

That's what they offered, indeed. Her health care plan in its entirety is 6 or 7 vague bullet points on her website, one being "As Senator I got funding for responders after 9/11" and she has the temerity to attack someone over universal health care in 2016 - apparently it's no longer a mortal sin like it was in 2008.

[PonyUp]

89. She's already supporting more war and hasn't been elected yet. n/t

[Jester Messiah]

110. If it's that dire, why are you risking it?

Unite behind Bernie and your nightmare scenario goes away. Quit trying to foist Hillary on us.

[Ferd Berfel]

123. If Hillary is the Nom - Trump wins.

Stop ignoring this

[TryLogic]

159. Serious possibility.

[HERVEPA]

14. Lovely. It's not the party that will suffer though.

It's the poor, minorities, gays, and so on who will be much worse off with a rethug president.
And a fucked up supreme court.
But keep patting yourself on the back about your high-minded principles.
(from a Bernie supporter)

[silvershadow]

18. Well you should choose wisely then, because we are attempting to take our party back

from interlopers.

[DonCoquixote]

31. Choose wisely translated

In this case, choose wisely = OBEY MY ANGER AND MY EGO, because I know that even while all the people darker and poorer than me like you will die, I know I can ride it out, because my anger and ego!

Which we know also means that he is enjoying PRIVILEGE than many people die for the want of.

[silvershadow]

34. No, just letting the party insiders know what the temperature is here on the street.

I happen to be doing so on this very public board. They will get the message. One way or the other. Machine politics can be useful. Mafia style politics, less so.

[DonCoquixote]

38. mafia

I thought you did nto care about all the people Trump wouldkill because people did another 2000 style protest stay at home vote..

[silvershadow]

42. I am not gong to speculate on who the Republican candidate might be (at least in the

Republican party).

[840high]

67. Aw yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grossproffit]

19. Excellent post.

[silvershadow]

26. Thanks I will.

[artislife]

24. ...

[silvershadow]

35. Thank you.

[HassleCat]

37. Thanks for making that point

There have been times when our party pointed the finger at voters who failed to show up, or voted for a third party candidate and proclaimed, in thunderous tones, "It's your fault!" The interesting thing is, registered Democrats who vote for a Republican don't get the same accusations. Anyway, why do we owe our votes to anyone? We have stood by the core values of the party and displayed great tolerance for candidates who abandoned those values when expedient to do so. And we are told, "Not voting for the Democrat is the same as voting for the Republican." And the Democrats who actually do vote for the Republican? How are they admonished? Apparently by saying, "Please forgive us for not pleasing you. We must try harder to win your votes by not talking too much about things you don't like to hear." It's enough to gag a maggot.

[silvershadow]

41. How do I know I am not being admonished by a Reagan Democrat? Pathetic.

Thank you for your thoughts indeed.

[HERVEPA]

76. I've never voted for a Rethuglican in my life. I'm as liberal as Bernie.

And I know that your pomposity if shared by others could cost people their lives.

[silvershadow]

77. But not the 80% who don't even vote, right? nt

[HERVEPA]

80. What the hell does that have to do with what you do?

Your logic is peccable (sic)

[silvershadow]

81. Here, let me spell it out for you:

If I don't vote, that is my prerogative. I have no blood on my hands by taking this action (should it come to that). Anyone who would try to shame me about it can go blow smoke, because it is up to the candidate to earn it, and in this hypothetical case I can't stand and in fact abhor one of the candidates. In fact, so much so, that if it comes to that, the party risks losing me as a member. If that's the road they want to go down, feel frisky. I'm DONE explaining how elections work to insiders, who know full well how they work.

[HERVEPA]

82. Yep, you do, just like those voted for Nader in Florida do.

You or I can't do much about those who don't vote. We can control with what you do.
And if you think I'm an insider, you're laughable/

[silvershadow]

83. But not the millions who don't vote? Where is the vocal disdain for non-voters who don't post on

this board? Are they to blame too? Or is it just me, with my own vote?

[HERVEPA]

87. Did you read my post?? Nothing we can do about them. And they are not on this board. But you are!

[silvershadow]

91. Nothing we can do about them? But I get disdain? It is up to the candidate to bring the votes in,

not the voters.

[DonCoquixote]

47. OH I hate the Reagan democrats

and those are people I would gladly prune and throw into the fire. But when the GOP gave to nader, and nader took the money, a ligth shoudl have gone on and go "gee, why did nader get money just like the reagan Democrats do?" If you do not actively vote, then the democrats will look for who does, and if you want to drown out the reagan democrats, you need to outvote them.

[togetherforever]

39. Seriously

As a democrat when I vote it's become only a way to vote against a republican .

At least we can say we've come close for once. I'm not about to say it's over for Senator Sanders but
it's an uphill battle .

Here's a guy that truly cares about the middle class and the poor , won't be giddy about using the military
if he had no other choice , cares deeply about the environment , isn't bought and paid for and he's losing .

Yet we are THE Democratic party. It's bizzarro world that Clinton is winning

[jillan]

44. It is a bizarro world. The Democratic Party I grew up with is gone.

[togetherforever]

45. I know it's a lot to hope for but

maybe some of Sanders has rubbed off on Clinton.

If she does win the nomination and beats Trump or who ever wins their nomination.

I just hope her cabinet won't look like a board of directors from Wall Street .
I know it's a lot to hope for because when I watch her speak , her body language just gives her away. She's lying right to our faces.

[scottie55]

52. Her Cabinet Will Be The Board Of Goldman Sachs

Just like Obama.

Not a liberal to see for miles.

No one to hold anyone accountable for raping us.

[leveymg]

55. There will be several PNAC luminaries in key foreign policy seats as well.

Knowing this means four to eight years of intensifying wars, I just can't see myself actually voting for her. But, what are the alternatives, if any? This is very difficult for a lifetime Democrat.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. We share the belief that our votes belong to us as individuals, not to a candidate or party.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson (D)

[CharlotteVale]

51. I feel the same way. Our Democratic president tried to nominate a Republican

to the Supreme Court. That says it all.

[DonCoquixote]

72. and he knew

that they would reject him, because they already promised they would...Granted, I would have put in Sri Srinivasan, who the Senate already approved,or Jane kelly who as also approved by them. But we know they will stall...

[rusty fender]

53. FYI: Nixon was not impeached

He resigned.

[silvershadow]

54. They tried. They were working on it...Yes, I know all about it. I was watching it on tv.

feelthebern

[ThreeWayFanny]

145. And, FYI, Hillary was,..

... one of those who were working on it.

Keeo fighting, Hillary!

[silvershadow]

146. I know it! That was just a couple of years after she worked on Nelson Rockefeller's campaign. nt

[ThreeWayFanny]

151. It's much, much worse than you....

.... can even imagine....

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/09/24/why-is-hillary-clinton-talking-to-laurence-rockefeller-holding-a-book-about-extraterrestrials/

[silvershadow]

155. I don't need to get off into the weeds. I can stick with verifiable stuff and do just fine.

Just going by my memories of that time period that I lived through and witnessed.

[ThreeWayFanny]

160. OK, But don't say you weren't warned eom

[silvershadow]

161. Welcome to DU. Just so you know, being a newbie and all,

stuff like that usually gets banished to the Conspiracy Theories forum or whatever the heck it is called. You posted that as a reply to me, so it likely won't get alerted on, but could. If you had posted it as an OP, it surely would have many places on DU. Be sure to read the rules of the different places you are posting to, and good luck. (I think)

[BreakfastClub]

56. Why would anyone do that? You should vote for YOUR own personal interests. nt

[PonyUp]

92. Yep. Vote your conscience. n/t

[fun n serious]

61. I'm ok with whatever you believe.

There is a collusion of Bernie supporters who have vow to destroy the DNC should Bernie not be the nominee. I think that's reckless. To each their own though. They say it isn't about Hillary. They planned this from the beginning, regardless of who was running against Bernie. It's not just about not voting. It's about Doing everything possible to assure Bernie's running mate will not be elected including harassing, intimidating, and other plans they have. It's online.. look it up. It's very organized too. IMO that is not democracy. Their goal is to dismantle the DNC.

[snowy owl]

64. You're making an assumption

Some of us simply believe in our values and will fight for them to the very end.

[fun n serious]

68. I'm OK with that too.. but that's not what I have seen.

I mean.. Ok. Don't vote. Express your beliefs. But why trash me and other people who choose not to follow?

[snowy owl]

100. what trashing?

???

[fun n serious]

102. It's all over GDP forum. nt.

[TM99]

112. Pssst...

They think any criticism of the anointed one is 'trashing'.

[snowy owl]

157. I guess. . . I'd still like to know specifically where

[snowy owl]

63. Thank you!

I've had a few people try to convince me that I should continue voting the least worse. But I haven't done that in many years. I've voted Green several times and Nader once. Why do I have to vote the least worse because so many people are afraid of real change? That's not my lookout. They need to blame themselves. If they can't find enough voters to put their second-tier candidate into office, so be it.

I don't want a Republican and I know very well how much we have to lose if we get a Trump or a Rubio or esp. a Cruz - an evil person if there ever was one. But I'm voting for the smartest, the most inspiring and the most authentic candidate. If he loses the primary, I prefer a Green candidate over Clinton. So sue me. I will survive a Republican thug. But we won't have another Bernie. The Koch Brothers will own the country in another four years. Trust me on that.

BTW, Jane Mayer was interviewed about the Kochs tonight on CBC The National. It was scary but not scary enough for me to compromise my democratic values.

[Simongren]

70. Don't vote for president if you don't want to, but please vote in your local elections.

I've been around for a long time and I have watched the slide that both parties have taken to the far right and it absolutely appalls me. I've also seen what caused it.

I understand not voting for the party pick, it's only been recently that I voted for a candidate that won the presidency - although in 2000 he should have won. But I have still voted in every election because I know that the most important elections are the ones closest to home.

If your school board is full of people who want abstinence only sex ed and science taught using the Bible, your sheriffs and judges only believe in certain constitutional rights and those only for the 'right' people, your town councils and mayors are anti-abortion, anti-science, pro-corporation patsies, your state senators and state congress are anti-people, anti-abortion anti-safety net stooges and your governors and United States Congresspeople are voting for corporations and wars but against health care and food stamps while making sure they are nice to the right people in order to get cushy lobbyist jobs later on - it doesn't matter who the president is because everything will just keep sliding to the right.

A local election where I am was decided by one vote. I've talked to at least five local progressives that didn't bother voting in that election because it wasn't a big one - but they are now complaining bitterly about the person who won by one vote.

My extended family is multicultural, multi-gendered and multi-faceted. And I'm going to be voting in the local and national elections for candidates that understand that.

[jwirr]

134. Totally agree.

[DCBob]

75. My views have changed over time as the world has changed.

I think that's normal.

[wyldwolf]

78. No one is demanding you fall in line. We just know you will.

[silvershadow]

79. No, I won't. Hide and watch. nt

[wyldwolf]

86. Of course, we'll never really know how "silvershadow" votes.

[silvershadow]

90. That's right. Just as I can't be certain you aren't a Reagan Democrat, responsible for this mess.nt

[wyldwolf]

94. exactly. So you can make all kinds of pouty 'I want vote' proclamations. But we both know you will

[silvershadow]

96. No, I promise I won't. Take it to the bank. You have NO IDEA how much I abhor

the Clintons and their triangulation. No idea. There aren't enough word modifiers in language to express it.

[seattleite]

95. Gotta love how condescending Team Hillary is.

Just keep alienating Bernie supporters. Let's see how well that works out for you.

Even though it's illegal, I'm happy to put a pic of my mail-in ballot on Imgur and post here. Just for you. If Hillary's the Dem nominee, you'll see a vote for Jill Stein.

[MaggieD]

93. Do what you want

I don't think the majority of voters will be joining you, and the hostage taking type threats are completely ineffective.

[silvershadow]

97. LOL! Says someone supporting the Third Way hostage taking machine. That's rich! nt

[MisterP]

99. "maybe the mass-incarcerating, cartel-coup-pushing, mad bomber might surprise you!"

[Merryland]

101. very empowering - thanks!

you expressed the sentiment exactly.

[randome]

103. If your views haven't changed in 50 years, maybe you're living in a bubble.

Change is part of life.

How about instead of seeing it as a demand, see it as a request. A request to help the rest of us out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[skepticscott]

169. Well put

I continue to be amazed at the number of people who regard voting as something to make them feel good about themselves, rather than as a way to make the country as good a place as possible for as many people as possible. In no conceivable way can the latter be accomplished by helping the Republican candidate.

[great white snark]

107. Maybe your purity standards are the problem.

Look how you respond to people who disagree with you....nobody is liberal enough. Perhaps when you signed up you weren't informed that we are the big tent party and now, after Bernie's burnout you have buyer's remorse?

[silvershadow]

120. No it is simple change. The party changed, and doesn't want to keep us regular folk

around anymore. The party betrayed labor and the middle class, and has yet to atone for it. Like I said, once it completely quits representing me, I will have to find a new party. It is that simple. I'm old enough to know, because I lived through every moment of it. Maybe the problem is some insiders and some younger folk think they know it all instead of listening to their elders.? That is certainly one possibility. You can't possibly come at me with a "maybe I'm the problem" when I'm telling you factual information about what happened.

[azmom]

108. I feel betrayed by the party for not giving Bernie

and his supporters a chance. The DNC has gone out of it's way to make sure Hillary is the nominee. That is not democracy. I'll be leaving the party too.

[randome]

121. Democracy is voters voting. You simply don't like it that Clinton is who they voted for.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[azmom]

124. It's the corruption I don't like.

But, you knew that.

[silvershadow]

127. + one quadrillion. nt

[ROYDOG999]

128. Ditto

The leaders of our party are moderate New England Republicans like G.H.Bush. Not Democrats.

[Chicago1980]

130. So if it's not your candidate, are you going to stay home and not vote?

Are you going to vote for the republican candidate?

Is everyone else in the nation going to have to suffer because of your "spilled milk"?

[silvershadow]

133. If "everyone in this nation" is so concerned about my vote, they would get off their duffs and go

vote themselves. I am not responsible for what happens. I have but one vote, and it is mine to use or not.

[jwirr]

135. That is laughable. Many of us are suffering because the DNC

and the DLC/New Dems have been having it their way for the last 40+ years. And you want us to vote for them again because we might suffer?

[Chicago1980]

136. So it's the DNC's fault and not Reagan "democrats"

or those who voted for Poppy Bush or his delinquent son?

[Lizzie Poppet]

139. For so often not giving us actual progressive choices? Damn right it is.

I'll never hold my nose and vote for a candidate who doesn't represent my interests ever again.

[jwirr]

173. NAFTA & other trade agreements, repeal of Glass-Steagall,

welfare "reform", tough on crime measures, etc. All Clinton measures that added to the hurt the raygun and crew did to us.

When we vote for Bernie we are voting for change. Change to the direction that the Clinton actions and the raygun mess have been leading us. Enough. There are other ways to be a prosperous nation than using trickle down economics - especially because it has only served to make the rich richer including the Clintons.

[WayBeyondBlue]

142. Revolution is spelled

W-r-i-t-e B-e-r-n-i-e i-n

Wouldn't THAT be historic?

[Festivito]

137. Lots of words, but not one reason found for your supporting Trump. eom

[silvershadow]

140. I'm a traditional labor Democrat. I can give you several, but I won't.

It does however take a lot of nerve to expect me to just agree to the same triangulation that got us in this mess. I don't support Trump. Tiresome red herring. Try again. My vote has nothing to do with who ultimately wins or loses. It is up to the candidate to rally enough votes to win. Sorry, but I'm not a political neophyte.

[PatrynXX]

138. been getting more irritate at that sort of thing. ie I agree with you here

Nevermind why people thing Voting for Hillary will bring Bill back. I don't like the thought of going backwards. Thats a conservative thing. Sure my best memories were at one school from 1987-1990 but I can't bring them back. Wesley Clark brought me into the party. I'll leave the moment Clinton gets it. Was one of the main reasons I'd gone past 28 before going D. I prefer I. I vote Left and Right. Sometimes Right locally because locally it doesn't really matter if things suck. Well maybe it does. I have a feeling if we had a guy like Bernie for Mayor he'd be in it for the long haul. But fuck me if someone is gonna force me to vote for the next King or Queen. Hey there's two firsts here. One's female the other is Jewish. Think dad would rather kiss Putins cheek before voting for a Jew. (tea party) although why he's for trump , Clinton's twin, I'll never know. Figured him to be a Huckabee type

[mgmaggiemg]

144. posted (spoken)

like a true loser...ever hear the quote be magnanimous in victory and gracious in defeat....well I guess you haven't

[cheapdate]

154. I won't demand, I'll urge.

But if you're going to not vote Democrat, then I say really commit. Vote Trump.

[Adrahil]

162. Demand? No. But anyone here who doesn't vote for the party nominee...

iii is a fucking idiot.

[silvershadow]

163. Not if the party doesn't represent my wing- labor, or my values- traditional, middle of the road

Democratic ones (before the Third Way Slide we took, which was dramatic). Not at all. You may find that disappointing, but then I find Reagan Democrats repulsive and downright vile. To each his own.

[Adrahil]

164. Compared to Trump, Cruz, or Rubio?

Seriously????

Think about that.

I think if you think that Clinton would be just as bad as those fellas, then you have lost perspective. Certainly Sanders would not agree with you.

[silvershadow]

165. You evidently haven't been reading my posts. I'm not going to debate this for the 10th time this

week. Read my journal to get up to speed. I mean every word.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

166. I believe everything you said.

There's a saying in Texas, fool me - oh crap - fuck that shit. My advice to some here - if you get what you wish for you made your bed. You may be in for a rude awakening some day.

[pdsimdars]

171. Similar

I have a similar take on it. The shift started with Clinton, he was the one who decided not to help the unions and to go take Wall Street banker money. And then he gave us NAFTA which screwed American manufacturing and workers, deregulated the banks which gave us the big crash, deregulated the media which gave us the propaganda media we have now, . . on and on. And for the AA voters, he made crack cocaine and powder cocaine sentences different so that if you use the same substance in different forms for one your jail sentence is 100 times more. He was the one that got more people into prison than any other president in the history of the US. Not to mention that the wages of American workers haven't gone up since Reagan, but the wealth has.
Enough of these corporate Democrats, and that includes Obama. The wages are the same under him and the rich are much richer, the Koch Brothers' wealth has DOUBLED under Obama. Have YOUR wages doubled. Or did he, just like the other corporate Democrats, seem to leave you out and we'll get to you sooner or later.
Wow. did all that just come out of me? Well, there's a partial list of how much we need a REAL Democrat instead of just another Clinton/Obama Corporate Wall Street Democrat.

[Carolina]

175. K&R

Totally agree!

[vi5]

180. Amen.....

I'm the same way, but for 40 or so years. I'm sick and tired of saying that I'm leaving the party or abandoning Democratic principles.

Mine are the same as they have always been, and I'd rather change the letter after my name than I would change what I believe.