I'm Black. Old Blacks have failed us. It's time for Young Blacks to make our stand on Super Tuesday

[johnlucas]

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:35 PM - Edit history (2)

South Carolina is a disappointment.
Now I fully realize why our community is depressed & demoralized.
Why nothing changes with the internal self-destruction where we're killing ourselves & the external destruction at the hands of "law enforcement".

I never really put it together this way until now.
Our elders are tired. They don't have the vigor to fight anymore.
They're too scared to make a revolution anymore.
All they wanna do is make a celebratory march referencing the past or wait for Jesus to save them while they tithe in church.

The enemy within is not just the street gangs.
It's our older generation.
It's not because of malice. It's just because of habit.
But the result is the same.
We go NOWHERE & STILL get the worst end of the stick in this society.

Hillary does the Nae-Nae & plays Church Lady & they fall for it.
All that image & fluff is good enough nowadays it seems.
Hillary has sold & will continue to sell us down the river after she does that little song & dance for our vote.
After she does her little performance, Blacks might as well get lost.

John Lewis will always be a hero to me.
You can NEVER take away what he did in the Movement.
That is FOREVER.
But no longer will I be starstruck by even those who took the blows to get us a better life in this country.
No longer will I bow down out of respect for the past.

John Lewis sold Bernie Sanders down the river to pay back some favors for the Clintons.
John Lewis KNOWS Bernie Sanders & he KNEW Bernie Sanders in 1963.
How did he? Well damn Bernie Sanders was a member of John Lewis' Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, that's how.



I don't know how he could miss him.
They're both towards the front & on both sides of Martin & Coretta.
I bet you didn't see Hillary marching. You damn sure didn't see Bubba from Arkansas!
You didn't meet those Clintons until the 1990s but all of a sudden you're out here lying as if the Clintons were fighting for the rights & Bernie was not.

And because of you & James Clyburns' bullshit, South Carolina Blacks followed your lead based on that respect I mentioned.
You're a Civil Rights star & they got struck.
You got the reputation so when you speak people listen.
If only you spoke the truth at that press conference.

You live long enough, you'll see your heroes become villains. Yeah, that's how the saying goes.
So be it.

The old generation is DONE.
It's time for the ones who are labeled Generation X & the Millennials to Right the old Blacks' Wrongs.
While they're getting their knowledge from the controlled TV media & newspaper media, we'll be getting our knowledge from the open Internet.
We're gonna see information in live time raw & unprocessed.
We're gonna spread the message in faster ways than the old generation EVER could.

THANK YOU Ashley Williams for EXPOSING Hillary Clinton at that Plantation.

Black Lives Matter Activist Interrupts Hillary Clinton [2/24/16] "I Am NOT A Superpredator"

Miss Ann showed her true colors when she wasn't prepped for her performance.
I didn't hear no phony Southern accents there.
I didn't see her bust the Nae-Nae.
I didn't see no church hands to the Lord here.

I know most of us don't vote anymore because we don't think it works.
But now we know one of the reasons why it doesn't work.
The old folks won't let it. Most of them anyway. Some are cool.
But most are just set in their ways. They're so used to scraps that they don't have the heart to get the big meal.

It's gonna work this time & we have to get out of our shellshocked apathy to MAKE it work.
We get apathetic to keep from going crazy with all this injustice.
That's why we tune out all that bad news.
But we gotta stop waiting on Jesus or Allah or whoever.
The Creator gave us the power to set our own paths.
No more time for being passive. It's time to be active.

We still got the vigor.
We still got the drive.
We're not tired yet.
All that energy I saw when Bree Newsome took down that goddamn Confederate flag in South Carolina!
All that energy I saw when Black Lives Matter bumrushed the show at a Bernie Sanders event.

But notice the difference.
When Black Lives Matter bumrushed Bernie, he gave 'em The MIC.
When Black Lives Matter bumrushed Hillary, she gave 'em The BOOT.
THAT'S your proof!
That's how you know he's on our side.

I see voting like playing the lottery.
Most times you ain't gonna win jack.
But every now & then you might just hit that big Powerball.
Bernie Sanders is the Powerball.
It's time to play your ticket.

If you REALLY want a chance, we are all gonna have to get behind Bernie Sanders.
He's not God, he's just a man. But he's a man who will live up to his advertising.
We'll get a better chance to get more done on our own right with him in office.
He will put that WD-40 on the machine & loosen it up enough for us to get out of the grind.
Once we're out of the grind, then we can make bigger & better moves on our own.

We're gonna have to outvote our elders.
Most of them are stuck. They can't see no other way.
They don't have the fight left in them anymore.
We cannot let another South Carolina happen or we are SCREWED!
Hillary can't beat Trump but Bernie can.

On Super Tuesday, we got to get out there & shift this race.
I'm gonna do my part in Southeast Georgia.
Hopefully Atlanta ain't as gullible as South Carolina.
Bernie Sanders MUST be the 45th President of the United States just for us to have a CHANCE.
So let's make that happen.

See you on Tuesday.
John Lucas

[Cheese Sandwich]

1. That's not Bernie Sanders in that picture. Don't spread it. Please delete it.

Bernie was not a member of Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC).

He was a member of CORE in Chicago and took a bus to the 1963 march in Washington, and he was waaaay back in the crowd there.


Any photo of Bernie in the same picture with MLK is NOT BERNIE.

It's VERY IMPORTANT TO BE ACCURATE and not spread this.

[valerief]

6. I know. Clearly, it's Hillary. Which Hillary?

[Cheese Sandwich]

10. I'm serious. That's not Bernie. Please nobody spread this picture.

Hillary people are planting fake pictures of Bernie with MLK so later they can blame us for it.

There are enough photos and records of Bernie Sanders' REAL civil rights leadership in Chicago. Use those.

This picture of a dude behind MLK is NOT BERNIE.

OP PLEASE DELETE.

[valerief]

13. I know he's denied it's him. I was just being a wise guy. nt

[tk2kewl]

15. i vote to remove the picture too

[geardaddy]

41. +1

Delete it.

[Agschmid]

197. I didn't know until *now* that that actually wasn't Bernie in that photo.

Interesting to know, odd that the OP didn't take it out once you pointed this out.

[saidsimplesimon]

213. Cheese, I agree. We supporters of

Senator Sanders must take the high road. Can you or anyone identify the name of the person in question?

If Senator Sanders says it's NOT him, that's good enough for me.

[johnlucas]

16. The HELL he wasn't! Bernie was in the SNCC. FACT. BTW ask Danny Lyon the photographer

And don't even try it with me about faces.
I'm an artist & I draw faces as a specialty.
I can recognize people when I see them.
A young Jewish dude with those same facial features, same head shape, same crazy hair.

Danny Lyon, the actual photographer made the confirmation.

Celebrated Photographer: Yes, That Is Bernie Sanders. Time Magazine Is Lying.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/12/1484056/-Celebrated-Photographer-Yes-That-Is-Bernie-Sanders-Time-Magazine-Is-Lying

I look at this picture...


And I look at this picture...


And I look at this picture...


And it doesn't surprise me to deduce that this picture matches.


But I don't even need the pictures to know that Bernie was down for the movement.
Everything he has DONE in public life shows me his credentials.
I don't even NEED to see him in the pics.

Hillary may have John Lewis trying to rewrite history on her behalf but she forgot something.
This is the Internet Age. This is the Information Age.
You need a clarification? You track it back. You Google it.
This is a generation bred to be Fact-Checkers.
It's hard to bullshit us with those old routines.
Once we find hard video & picture evidence, everybody can shut their mouth with the propaganda.

Ain't no secrets in the Internet Age.
For some situations that's a bad thing but for stuff like this it's a MARVELOUS thing!
And when we track it back, we see Hillary changing like a chameleon for every season while we see Bernie standing hard like a MF'n ROCK!
He don't MOVE!
50 years! He don't MOVE!!!
And that's what we're looking for in a President.

A man who says what he means & means what he says.
How in the HELL did he survive in politics that long staying like that?
Guess that's why he was Independent for so long.
Stayed out of the bullshit of the parties.

We're gonna get him in there & there ain't a DAMN thing nobody's gonna do about it.
Bernie Sanders is the 45th President of the United States of America.
Don't worry. The 46th President will be a woman named Elizabeth Warren.

John Lucas

[Cheese Sandwich]

18. The pictures of him in Chicago are real. The picture of the guy right behind MLK is NOT Bernie

I support him too. You're making a lot of great points, but we can't spread a wrong photo. Maybe you want to believe it's him. But it doesn't help to mislead ourselves or others.

There are enough real photo and video evidence that we can stick with the 100% legit.

Your enthusiasm is awesome. So please keep helping but just that one photo of the dude behind MLK is not Bernie. I know some people have spread it before.

But this IS Bernie:

[BernieforPres2016]

20. It's easy to photoshop a face into a picture

I think the picture should be removed. Whether John Lewis knew Bernie during the Civil Rights movement is irrelevant. Otherwise I agree with your post.

Here is an article related to your post that I think you would be interested in, with an excerpt below the link.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/27/11125726/black-democrats-sanders-cornel-west

"Some blacks have gotten a seat at some table," Whitt told his audience in Nevada. "It's probably the kiddie table. But they feel good because they got a seat at a table" — and therefore, he doesn't need to say out loud, sold the rest of the community out. He points out that when members of the Congressional Black Caucus endorsed Clinton, they didn't do it as the CBC, but rather as "the Congressional Black Caucus PAC" — implying they weren't really representing the community, but rather the moneyed political interests that Sanders is fighting.

At its heart, though, the black radical critique of the political establishment isn't as simple as some individuals selling out.

"This has been a critique of a lot of the major black organizations," says Eric McDaniel of the University of Texas-Austin. From the NAACP to the black church, "the main patrons of these institutions are the black middle class, and they respond more to the needs of their patrons than, basically, the broader needs."

This is also true of black churches, which McDaniel studies. They're a civic establishment that isn't interested in pursuing a political agenda: "Because the institution is so stable," says McDaniel, "it's very slow to move." It's an institution more interested in civic engagement — getting members out to vote — than in pushing a particular ideological agenda, much less a progressive or radical one.

[jhart3333]

48. It's also possible to tell if it's been photoshopped.

If you are making the charge do the leg work. Don't just say it's easy.

[BernieforPres2016]

50. Somebody else posts a questionable picture and I have to either accept it or disprove it?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

[jhart3333]

74. You are the one making the charge. Yes, prove it.

[BernieforPres2016]

77. There are Bernie supporters all over DU saying this. There is even a thread devoted to it.

Pound sand.

[PatrynXX]

70. hey if they made a fake Lee Harvey Oswald long before photoshop

it can be done

[merrily]

158. IIRC, Sanders was in both CORE and SNCC. However, I don't think that is Sanders in your pic.

Otherwise, I feel the same way you do about many things.

[bec]

200. This is one of the many reasons

I will not support Hillary because of crap like this.

[zappaman]

2. Yeah, John Lewis is a traitor!

Sure, that'll win your candidate votes.

[ejbr]

29. I'm sure we have our differences,

but I must say I like the picture in your signature line. I hope we progressives can get back to that one day.

[zappaman]

66. One can hope.

[Rose Siding]

68. They stand on the shoulders of greatness in reeeeeally cruel shoes

[merrily]

154. How the fuck did you get that from the OP? Oh, that's right. You didn't. The OP said the opposite.

about Lewis:

John Lewis will always be a hero to me.
You can NEVER take away what he did in the Movement.
That is FOREVER.
But no longer will I be starstruck by even those who took the blows to get us a better life in this country.
No longer will I bow down out of respect for the past.

[MADem]

3. After I hit the picture with the circle in it, I stopped reading. HE WASN'T THERE.

He has SAID he wasn't there.

Good grief. I suggest you read the responses of these SANDERS SUPPORTERS at Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/12/1484117/-Bernie-Sanders-and-John-Lewis-Were-At-The-Same-March-in-1965


You do yourself no favors by pushing flaky memes that have been thoroughly debunked.

[Lucinda]

7. That is when I stopped too.

[obamanut2012]

19. Oh no, I beg you to keep reading

It's delightful.

[morningglory]

4. What a brilliant statement, JohnLucas!

Sharing it to my husband.

[johnlucas]

5. Thank you! Sick of this foolishness. That's why we don't get nowhere

Cornel West said our old folks have confused the Gravy Train for the Freedom Train.
But notice I didn't say all old Blacks.
Harry Belafonte keeps it real ALWAYS.

I'm sure he met Bernie there.
He marched with Martin too.

The water has gotten stale so it's time to move the waters.
Changing of the guard begins NOW.
John Lucas

[passiveporcupine]

86. Bernie has said he was not in Selma in 1965

You are only going to give Hillary supporters more ammunition to discredit him by pushing this falsehood.

All the other pictures in Chicago have been confirmed. Those were Bernie. And he participated in the March on Washington in 1963. He was a member of the SNCC, but it was a huge org and John Lewis could not possibly have met all people involved in it. John Lewis and Capehart have been corrected, even if they haven't admitted they were wrong to say what they did. Lewis really didn't come right out and deny Bernie was an activist for civil rights. He just implied it. Capehart lied about him and the photos. But that has been corrected, even by the University of Chicago.

Please don't help the Hillary camp with this persistence on the Selma photo. I don't know where you are getting this info, but it's not correct. You really should remove that part of your OP.

There are a lot of people in this thread asking you to correct your OP because it's not helpful to include that photo. We would NOT be doing this if he was in that photo. You have obviously seen how social media reacted to Capehart. We got the truth about about what he was denying, but that was all related to the Chicago images.

please...please fix you OP.

[Peregrine Took]

55. +100 n/t

[bbgrunt]

8. fix the pic. Otherwise, a big k and r!

[Lucinda]

9. Not Bernie. He was at the mall. Not at the march.

[TDale313]

11. Pretty sure that isn't Bernie.

Please don't spread that picture. I say this as a Bernie supporter- if it's not accurate it'll hurt far more than it could possibly have helped if it were.

[LWolf]

12. Thank you.

Thank you for being the smart young people, with their youthful energy and determination to make change happen. I will support you in any way I can. I'm going to turn 56 in about a month. I haven't forgotten what that energy felt like, what young people were making happen when I was still a child.

This older white woman is behind you 100%.

You have pointed out exactly what I've thought, and what I've heard, from other young black AND white voters. I haven't said so, though, because I'm white. When I speak up, I'm told I'm talking down to black voters.

I sure don't want to do that. To anyone. So I've listened, I've reached out, and I've stayed mostly quiet.

When I began reading your post, though, I immediately thought of the BLM protest in Portland, where Sanders stepped aside and let them have the mic, and then that exact video you posted. The contrast is clear to me, even if age has dimmed my sight a bit.


So thank you. I'm sticking with Bernie, and I'll stick with the revolution of change that our nation needs in whatever way I can, win or lose the primaries. When it comes to racial justice, I'll defer to those who are in the direct line of fire about what work to do, what path to take, but I'll be there.

For racial justice, for gender justice, for all issues of social justice and economic justice.

[johnlucas]

22. Some of us are just too defensive. It's the history of the country causing that. Continue to speak

I'm one of the old youngsters. In the last of my 30s.
They call our generation Generation X.
I never bought into these silly-ass labels for generations but I put it in there for simplicity's sake.

I may have elements of the doubting cynical mindset my generation is stereotyped with but I do NOT have that lethargic apathetic stereotype.
I don't believe in quitting & part of me wonders what happened to the folks going hard in the 1960s.
Why did people stop wearing Afros?
Why did they abandon the power of that social movement so easily?
I have wondered about this all my life.
The pain & struggle were getting too hard to bear & they needed a relief?

I feel like so much was lost from those days.
So much was lost after the 60s & 70s.
Was it because of Reagan & they were demoralized?
Whatever it was it's bullshit.
NEVER give in. Fight to the END!

And as for you being an older White woman.
THANK you for seeing our issues as your own.
That's the ultimate goal anyway.
To end the divide & conquer game.
This race thing is bullshit & we need to see ourselves as part of the same team.

But many of us are defensive & rightly so.
History has a long residue & frankly many of us are wary to trust White folks based on history AND the present.
STILL don't let that stop you from participating in the conversation.
EVEN if you're shut out or ostracized or dismissed.
Black folks walling off to themselves ain't the answer either & that's what I say to our folks all the time.
Can't get scared hiding in your safe space.
We're POWERFUL & that's not how powerful people act.
You gotta get the courage to talk to the other side regardless.

And the same goes for White folks.
You can't get intimidated by frank raw conversation.
YOU ALSO can't wall off into your safe space.
You need to hear the truth but also participate in that truth.

All of us are dealing with a multi-century year old wound.
And it ain't NEVER gonna heal if we don't put the ointment of communication on it.
There's gonna be things you simply can't relate with & there's gonna be things they can't relate with you either.
STILL stay in the conversation & participate so this old wound can heal.

I have a White friend from Virginia who after Dylann Roof murdered those people in that South Carolina church called me looking for that "outside" opinion.
I know he has relatives who fought for the Confederacy.
I know he has probably been told bullshit about that Confederate Flag before.
He NEEDS to talk to me to gain perspective.
I don't shut him down & shut him out just because he doesn't see everything in the perspective I do.
A man can't understand a woman in pregnancy. Just simply not his experience.
But he still must listen & communicate to get as close as he can.

My friend is stuck between two worlds.
A world where he was courageous enough to have Black friends & have good experiences with his Black friends (sometimes better than his experiences with his White friends).
And a world who puts out the revisionist history of the Confederacy & the Civil War.
He NEEDED to talk to me & that's exactly why he called me.
It's exactly why he called me when Baltimore happened.
I NEVER sugarcoat it for him. But I also don't beat him up for not fully understanding every detail.

He has a low opinion of rednecks & he told me that many times over the years.
I never saw him or his family parade a Confederate flag around.
And they treated me & his other Black friends as family.
If I cut off communication because he as a White man doesn't have 100% understanding of a Black man's experiences, that wound won't heal.

He asked me in 2012 who I'm voting for & I told him Obama & he obviously was not for Obama.
I know he voted for Romney.
But we can STILL be friends despite our political differences.
He won't shut ME out because we don't see everything eye to eye on every issue.
The more me & him communicate the smaller & smaller that gulf becomes.
The easier that wound heals.

When we watched pro wrestling together in the summer of 1998 he rooted for college frat-boy like D-Generation X while I rooted for the Black Panther/Nation of Islam-like Nation of Domination.
The two teams were mortal enemies at that time but we were friends.

The generations after me & my friend will have less of a gulf between themselves & so on & so forth until there's no more gulf at all.
That's why we must not wall off into our safe space.
The fact that I even HAVE a White best friend after the history of this country is amazing in itself.
That wound has healed somewhat at least.

There was something special that happened in the 1960s.
We almost came together for a little while there.
The backlash of that movement slowed things down for a good half-century or so but that time is here again.
Thanks to one of the guys who was a part of that something special.
Bernie Sanders was one of those guys.
And I'm glad that as he got old he never lost that youthful spirit to fight injustice to the very end.
It's not a coincidence that the oldest person in the race has the most young folks behind him.
Something special is happening once again & I want to be a part of it.

John Lucas

[choie]

26. So you write a wonderful

thoughtful and thought-provoking post and all people can respond with is "delete the picture" Unbelievable.

[BernieforPres2016]

35. That's not all people are responding with

Many of us who favor Sanders are applauding the post but are dubious about the picture. I subscribe to the adage that your argument is only as strong as its weakest point, and the picture is the weak point because everybody knows Bernie was active in the Civil Rights movement whether John Lewis ever met him or not.

[passiveporcupine]

89. It doesn't matter what he says if his OP is pushing a falsehood that can hurt Bernie.

that will be enough to cause a lot of acrimony on this forum alone, because most people know (including Hillary supporters) that he was not in Selma in 1963. They will use this as a weapon. It will defeat the whole purpose of this thread. We don't need to be apologizing for falsehoods pushed by our own camp. We have enough work just challenging those pushed by Hillary camp.

I don't know why everyone can't see that.

[shireen]

216. yes, i was thinking the same.

His words were powerful. I wish more people would discuss what he has to say instead of going on and on about a photo that may or may not be fake.

[noiretextatique]

229. That would mean

They'd have to be honest. Bitching about photos, language, and airing dirty laundry on public are all tactics to avoid the subject...an uncomfortable truth.

[Faux pas]

14. Bookmarking to appreciate

again and again!

[obamanut2012]

17. "Old Blacks"?

Kicking this.

[bigtree]

21. 'Old Blacks have failed us'

This is the campaign strategy? Trashing John Lewis and Jim Clyburn?

And you folks wonder why you're losing the black vote?

[DemocraticSocialist8]

23. What he said is the truth and let's stop pretending some internet posts

are causing Sanders to lose support. Clinton has gotten the lions share of the Black vote the moment she announced she was running for President.

[bigtree]

27. what he said is disgusting

...without the efforts of 'old blacks,' young blacks would have zero political influence in our national legislature.

The Sanders camp can't seem to find anything good to say about blacks who don't support their candidate and we're supposed to take that as serious commentary?

This is just an ignorant slap at older blacks who aren't feeling the bern. Sad.

[johnlucas]

60. Yeah for the longest time I deferred to that past. But not anymore

I ALWAYS respect the actions of those who came before me.
But it's very clear right now that the old generation has lost their way.
They forgot the mission & that's why our community is the way it is.

John Lewis got patted on the head by the Clintons & won't even get anything substantial to show for it.
I will NEVER forget what he did in the Movement & will ALWAYS respect that.
He will ALWAYS be a hero to me for that.
But just like with your parents, sometimes you got to have the guts & tell them when they are wrong.
And parents don't like being told they're wrong by their own children.
But since when do parents have all the answers?
Since when have parents EVER had all the answers?

John Lewis HIMSELF went against the wishes of HIS mother when HE became an activist.
SHE was wrong & HE was right.
Now HE is wrong & WE are right.
And we must have the courage to tell him & our other elders that they're wrong & we're right.

Yes the older generation got us here.
But it's our job to take it further.
And if the older generation doesn't agree on how we take it further, then we have to forge a new path.
The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee was a YOUTH Movement, don't forget that.
They forged a new path apart from THEIR older generation too.

John Lucas

[bigtree]

62. 'John Lewis got patted on the head by the Clintons'

...this is just vile.

[1StrongBlackMan]

96. How old are you? (I'm just curious). eom

[johnlucas]

112. 39 heading to 40 in 2 months

Ugh 40. Yikes! I even hate writing that.
I prefer to call it 20-20.
There was 29 & then 20-10, 20-11, 20-12...now 20-20.

That's why I say I'm the older of the younger generation.
But I'm still the younger generation.

I'm seeing more inspiration from the Occupy & Black Lives Matter crowd than the Establishment.
It's hard to fight when you get comfortable I guess.
I remember Ice Cube when he had that permanent crease between his eyebrows.
Now Ice Cube can't hardly scrunch up his face.
How you gonna be mad when you finally got status?
How you gonna be mad when you finally arrived?

And I think that's the biggest thing on why our elders are not plugged into what's going on with us today.
That's why this election is seeing such a big disconnect between most voters of these different generations all ACROSS the scale.

Yeah still 39 so far AKA 20-19.
And will STILL be 39 on Tuesday when I put in my vote for Bernie Sanders.
John Lucas

[1StrongBlackMan]

115. Okay. Thanks. eom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

178. John as I posted bellow, a link to a news story

from yesterday... some of the older generation get it.

People should listen to the video my husband recorded yesterday at the revival of the movement event here in San Diego, and also read the words from Reverend Shane Harris. I am sure you and him have a lot in common... and if you are ever round these parts, find him. If you are, shoot me a PM, and I will make sure to arrange for that meeting.

He might have a way to hook you up into continuing this movement. Or as they said yesterday, revive it.

I say that by the way, as a Latina Jew who came to the US from Mexico.

I have been in the streets documenting the local BLM movement, and in city hall and school district, with Shane Harris and NAN, as well as others who are reviving a social justice movement, that quite frankly is part of the zeitgeist of the country, and scares some of the elders, not just in the AA community. It is quite general.

And I admire John Lewis, as you said... but that one nasty talking point some folks have.

As to what another poster told you about talking inside about the issues... as a Jew I get it. It is also an unwritten rule. But the only way some of this changes, inside and outside, is precisely by having these conversations in the open. I admire you, becuase some folks are going to try to stop you.

I look forward to more of your words. I will add that your sentiment is quite common at least locally with my BLM leaders, that they need to carve their own path. I have told them a couple times to read history, but not take it as a bible, after they have asked. And to also talk to oh our local black panthers, for some techniques, for example... because some of them have not changed.

And it is my opinion... I am sure some will try to shut it down as white splaining, from watching the movement take shape locally... and it will be different from place to place, that we are at the cusp (if not already in) the midst of a new civil rights movement. And that means new leaders, new heroes, new beat downs. That always scares old soldiers. After all, old soldiers always talk with nostalgia of the their war... and might not be able to see that there is a new one, with new battle lines drawn. Some are very familiar, some are new.

[CreekDog]

192. I guess John Lewis is not smart enough to know why he supports the Clintons

if only he were as smart as you.

[johnlucas]

25. I AM BLACK. I AM The Black Vote.

You damn right I'm calling them suckers out!
I could give a damn about a campaign strategy.
This ain't about no motherfucking campaign!
This is about our FUTURE right now!

We're getting MURDERED on MOTHERFUCKIN' LIVE VIDEO & NOTHING IS BEING DONE!
A Black President won't even do nothing about it.
He should be THE FIRST! And he should be PROMINENT!
They're rolling back the clock on us!

We're getting Oscars for being a maid in The Help & a butler in The Butler.
But for anything else we don't get Oscar consideration.
We're turning back into Hattie McDaniel & Amos!
That's what is comfortable for these hating jackasses.
That's the way they want to see us.

I'm telling you right now that this is the peaceful version.
If we get that same old same old status quo one more time, you're gonna see the VIOLENT version.
There's a reason why Black Lives Matter acted up with Bernie first.
They knew he would be the one to listen.
I knew EXACTLY what they were doing & it was the right choice.
While almost everybody in the media called Bernie weak for letting those women take over the stage I saw it as strength.
I saw it as REAL. I saw a man who was DOWN for the cause.
A man who ain't gonna take baby steps to get shit done.

No, this ain't a usual campaign this time around.
Trump is Hitler reborn & if he wins you can kiss it goodbye.
You'll end up just like 1945 Germany.
Bernie is the only one who can shut that fool down.
And he can do it with EASE.

It ain't Hillary's turn. Sorry.
She was already the Co-President back in the 90's.
Bernie is the last chance for us to HAVE a chance in this miserable patch of land called USA.
The Confederates & their friends are getting bolder & bolder every single day.
You KNOW what they're gonna do if Trump validates their ignorant points of view.
We don't have time to pay back favors.
They're rolling the clock back on us & our LIVES are on the line.

This ain't got a DAMN thing to do with a campaign.
This is SURVIVAL right now.
So you doggone right I'm gonna call out Old Blacks who are supposed to know what that's all about.

John Lucas

[bigtree]

30. word salad advocacy

...so much fail in this.

[EffieBlack]

34. Sure you are . . .

I'm sure some people buy that, but I don't.

[JonLeibowitz]

36. So this is what it has become? Claiming people are lying about race? smh...

[JoeyT]

71. Man they've been doing that for a while.

If you support Sanders, you're white and a guy. It doesn't matter if you're black, native american, latino, asian, or a woman. If you support Sanders, you're a white guy.

Yeah, it's racist as fuck to strip people of their heritage based on who they support in an election, but Hillary and her supporters have no issue being racist when it suits them.

[JonLeibowitz]

83. And it survived the jury 2-5....What a shameful post to let stand. n/t

[Arazi]

106. HRC supporters do it all the time. Any Sanders supporter is white

doesn't matter their real background. They're always white. There's been several threads about it here and at the two other HRC support sites.

It's pretty despicably racist but there's a cadre here who do it regularly as evidenced already in this thread

Any Self identified AA is automatically attacked and "told" they can't possibly be AA

[1StrongBlackMan]

149. It's probably due to the anonymous nature of the board ...

that and the sudden up-tick in people self-identifying as PoC, as May 2015. Many of these recent self-identifiers have been members of this board for years, but never felt the need to self-identify; nor, had they seen fit to participate on a single discussion of race. Given their sudden out-spokenness, and their "out of the main" opinions, I find that curious, to put it mildly.

[Arazi]

156. There's been a dramatic uptick in posts about race and racism in this election

Its been a near daily, constant drumbeat here especially in the past 6 - 10 months with some pretty inflammatory posts.

I can certainly understand many posters who probably have kept some level of anonymity over the years, will begin to self-identify as a POC in order to clarify their comments in these discussions. I don't begrudge azmom for example, for keeping the fact that she's a Latina in the background until recently.

And honestly, if you're only going to get attacked as not black enough, or not a POC, what's the incentive to self identify as we've seen in this very thread? Theres a group here who are pretty effective at hounding folks they don't "believe" are "really" black like the OP

[1StrongBlackMan]

160. Yeah. Okay ...

There have been daily discussions on race for years, here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1187

and the vast majority of them are not "inflammatory".

[Arazi]

163. GDP only opened in June 2015

I was referring to this forum and why the new info might be relevant now instead of before.

There's been a pretty deliberate attempt to paint Sanders and his supporters as racist since this board started. That's a pretty compelling reason to self-identify imo

[1StrongBlackMan]

166. NO ... There has been NO attempt to paint Sanders as racist ...

And, regarding his supporters ... there has been efforts to POINT OUT the particular instances where particular supporters have done (still do) racist shit.

[Arazi]

168. Thanks for the laugh, small as it was

you know we CAN read

Here's one from just yesterday. It's ridiculous how often his "tone deafness" is then parlayed into a full scale racism charge downthread, beyond the obvious threads just outright saying it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511360326

[1StrongBlackMan]

169. Yes you can read ... but to get there (i.e., Sanders is a racist claim) ...

you have to read between the lines, then interpret what was inferred. IOWs, make shit up.

FYI, tone-deafness on race does not mean the person is racist, it just means they don't get it.

[jonestonesusa]

172. Wow, dude...

Bring back the paper bag test, or what? I guess it's the internet, so old school tactics to tell who's black just don't work.

Maybe what I'm hearing is that the diversity of black public opinion is surprising, but it shouldn't be. Not in 2016. If you haven't yet, check out Eugene Robinson's The Disintegration of Black America. That's my favorite quick summary of some of the many segments in black public opinion.

One more possibility - maybe since the beginning of the Sanders campaign, there are some black DUers who support Sanders as a candidate and they're tired of being marginalized as "out of the main" or criticized for not being "another brick in Hillary's firewall."

Can't rule out white Sanders supporters masquerading as being black. Anything can happen, I guess.

[1StrongBlackMan]

173. Well ...

One more possibility - maybe since the beginning of the Sanders campaign, there are some black DUers who support Sanders as a candidate and they're tired of being marginalized as "out of the main" or criticized for not being "another brick in Hillary's firewall."

They are and they haven't been.

[nadinbrzezinski]

180. Thanks for the recomendation by the way

been getting more and more books recommended and read.

Thanks

[jonestonesusa]

220. Excellent. Enjoy your reading!! eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

179. Hey they have done that to me

To my great surprise I was born and raised in Idaho and have been lying all this time that I am Jew from Mexico city who came to the US at 18... for college.

By the crazy rules of race in this country, I am a person of color. but they still dared questioned that (off site off course) whether I qualified since I am whiter than can be, and can pass.

[Arazi]

186. Riderinthestorm and Omaha Steve too

its disgusting shit. Ive since followed your posts on this and noticed that prominent Sanders supporters are denigrated and wholescale attempts to de-legimetize those posters ensues. Its a bully gang

especially when they tangle with influential HRC supporters here

[nadinbrzezinski]

187. The best part is that as independent media

I support none in this race, and as an independent voter, it is their fucking party who they nominate. I just get to play since I live in a progressive state where the parties do not control the primary calendar and are not allowed anywhere close to the registrar of voters and we have an open primary. So when June comes... I can vote in the martian party primary if they are running anybody...

On the down side we are a money spigot for the two parties.

They just think I am a sanders supporter, since I hate outright propaganda and lies and will call them on it. By the way, the puzzlement as to the success... will send you a PM...

[obamanut2012]

37. yup

[azurnoir]

45. ya run with that "fake" insinuation if you need to, but be sure to read this and note the date too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=677842

[Kittycat]

175. ^^^^ search and ye shall find ^^^^

Hopefully that ends the qualification round.

I love his OP, but do think he needs to strike the photo from what I've read. That said, I'm trying to sit this conversation out, but I appreciate reading the dialogue and perspectives being brought to the table.

[nadinbrzezinski]

182. NO it won't make a difference

I have never hidden my Mexican Jewish heritage, or the fact that I came to the US at 18 to study (yup, apparently I never got my Masters in History at San Diego State). I also never hid the fact that I am a former EMT-P in Tijuana, where I did much more than just respond. I helped set a program, and trained a few generations of EMTs...

I have been called a liar, I have been called worst.

Hell, these days I and my husband run a small media outlet and we actually are credentialed media by the local PD in this county, credentials are county wide. And that group still attacks and calls me names, and principally liar. Hell they try to say I am not working media when that is what I do.

It used to piss me off. They are bullies or worst. And since management, (for their own good reasons) will not do a thing about it, I just point and laugh. Hell, one of the crew actually diminished Al Sharpton today, but she has not been called by this crew, because she is one of the bullies.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027647009#post13

They are quite transparent.

[jack_krass]

138. You dont believe hes black? why?

He doesn't meet your expectations of what a black person should act like? This is condescending at best.

[noiretextatique]

142. Sanders' suppoters are not

Black, like myself, the OP and several other black Sanders' supporters here. And to criticize black establishment politicians that really isn't black...airing dirty laundry and all. Not that John Lewis is one, mind you. I still have a lot of respect for him because he was man enough to clarify his shilling for Hillary into a reasonable statement.

[EffieBlack]

167. You asked me why and then proceeded to tell me why

You're wrong, but since you are so certain you know the answer, why bother to ask?

Condescending, indeed.

[tblue37]

176. This:

There's a reason why Black Lives Matter acted up with Bernie first.
They knew he would be the one to listen.

[one_voice]

177. I've no doubt you're black..

those 'old blacks' are the reason you're able to say you're the black vote.


Get the young vote out. They didn't show up in SC. Don't disrespect the older generation, try and educate them if you want, but don't disrespect them. Just my opinion.

[CreekDog]

193. they failed you? some of them helped pass the Voting Rights Act.

without it, many people of many races would not have had the right to vote in many elections since.

i understand not being happy when people vote in a way that disagrees with you.

but to blame an entire group (old blacks) for "failing" by *YOUR* standard, is so wrong and it's clear from what you've written that it's ignorant of what many have been through, accomplished, and considered today, when they voted for Hillary.

they didn't fail you. no "group" OWES you agreement.

[secondwind]

199. BRAVO, John Lucas !!

[Blue_Tires]

218. But you don't speak for the entire black electorate, DO YOU?

Even I don't claim to do that.

[jack_krass]

40. No.its not the campaign strategy

Its the opinion of the guy who wrote it. Is he no allowed to have an opinion?

[McCamy Taylor]

79. And the "old" vote along with it. I am proud of my gray hair.

Thanks again, bigtree. You always say what needs to be said.

[noiretextatique]

105. Campaign Strategy?

I thought is was a post on DU.

[JI7]

24. the OP sounds like a Hillary supporter

Trying to turn off people to Sanders.

[PonyUp]

31. Thinking the same. n/t

[Codeine]

32. With fake pictures even.

Lovin' it.

[johnlucas]

33. Think what you want. I'm gonna do my best to get him the win in Georgia on Tuesday

I been on this forum for 8 years.
You can track my post history if you want.
I'm doing my best to make up for my first vote in 1996 when I voted for Bill.
I didn't know then what I know now.

So that's one of MANY reasons why I'm behind Bernie.
Even donated to his campaign & I told myself after 2008 that I would never donate to campaigns again.
South Carolina was a DISGRACE.
They got hooked in by Hillary's "performance".

But that won't happen in Ohio & other states.
And whatever I can do to make sure Georgia is one of those other states I will do.
The Clintons are done.
It's time to change this party into something worthwhile.
Tired of this crap.
If the Democratic Party was worth 5 cents there wouldn't even BE a Republican Party right now.
Bernie Sanders will make the Democratic party a POWERHOUSE with a vibrant future for decades to come.
Bernie will transform the narrative into a Progressive direction.

It's time for the DEMOCRATIC to take a back seat.
The UNDERGROUND is talking right now.
John Lucas

[peacebird]

67. Thank you for writing, thank you for your passion! I feel we NEED Bernie in order to take back

Our country from the oligarchs.

[Number23]

85. I voted for Hillary in the GA primary. My mother initially supported Sanders but has become so

disgusted at the tactics of his campaign that she's now supporting Hillary.

But she's just a worthless old black woman, so what the hell does she know. Right? A worthless old black lawyer fighting discrepancies in prison sentencing among black folks in the deep South. What the fuck does she know. Right?

[johnlucas]

101. What tactics? If anything Bernie hasn't hit Hillary hard ENOUGH!

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I would say your mother is mistaken not worthless.
Even smart people get it wrong Number23.

Hillary is getting henchmen to do her dirty work for her just like in 2008.
She gets other people to throw the knives FOR her.
Then she personally puts another knife in your back when you ain't looking.

All of a sudden after New Hampshire she's biting off of Bernie's platform as if she came up with it.
She was saying something totally different on the same issues just a week or two before at the January debates.
Now she wants to do her best Bernie impression to fool people.

And you wanna talk about BERNIE'S tactics???
Personally I think Bernie needs to quit holding back & let her have it.

But that's just what I'm talking about.
The old folks got it WRONG & their reasoning for the support is WRONG.
"Bernie's tactics." Bernie HAS no tactics!
Or do you mean calling out her donors in public on live TV?
Is THAT the tactic your mother's talking about?
Well if it is, that's why the younger generation has to correct the mistakes, the wrongs of the older generation.

Madeline Albright backfired, Gloria Steinem backfired, & us young Blacks will make John Lewis & James Clyburn backfire too.
We can't take another era of half-measures & platitudes.
We need action & SIGNIFICANT change for the positive.

Bernie is breaking up the Establishment in every way possible.
And obviously it's VERY needed.
John Lucas

[noiretextatique]

145. If you haven't noticed yet

Sonetimes people make these accusations with out providing an examples.

[Number23]

190. Bernie's tactics of having some of the biggest trolls on the planet among his loudest supporters

Bernie's tactics of seldom discussing race in and of itself, always as a by product of economic issues.

Bernie's tactics of campaigning and even worse, FUNDRAISING off of his campaign's attempt to illegally access Hillary's records.

Bernie's tactics of being as divorced from the black community as he could be for DECADES and then coming for us a year before he ran for office. You and your handful of friends can keep acting like the man has run a perfect campaign, and hasn't done anything wrong. The rest of us can see what's going on.

And you keep acting like you speak for the "young blacks" -- who overwhelmingly went for Hillary -- the old blacks or any damn body else and that every body black but you and your handful of pals is wrong. You sound every bit as entitled, clueless and privileged as some of these other folk around here. You guys all deserve each other.

[noiretextatique]

143. Which tactics, specifically?

I am curious to know which tactics of tbe Sandes' campaign turned your mother into a Hillary supporter.

[Number23]

191. LOL. As if I'd bother.

[noiretextatique]

227. That's a great strategy you got there

Make an accusation, then refuse to back it up. At least y' y'all are consistent.

[Number23]

230. I didn't make an accusation. That would be you and your endless running around DU

accusing the black posters of nefarious schemes. So the fact that you do that -- CONSTANTLY, I might add -- and then wonder why none of us would be interested in engaging with you is precious.

I said that my mother was no longer supporting Sanders based on his tactics. That's not an accusation, it's a fact. And your belief that I have to answer your demands for more information is priceless. You've certainly learned alot from your new pals.

[jack_krass]

58. Nope, couldnt be a Hillary supporter...

Because the writing had:

-Too much passion
-Disdain for old people with old ideas
-Lack of sucking up to or defending large banks or corporation
-No pandering

[KingFlorez]

28. That is NOT Sanders in that picture.

http://www.snopes.com/sanders-mlk-selma-march/

And according to exit polls, Sanders has done all that well with the younger black vote, so I would expect much on Super Tuesday.

[angel123]

38. Old Black people

John Lucas, not only are you wrong on so many levels, you are also dismissive of the efforts that older Black Americans made to ensure that you have a right to spew such vile and erroneous talk. I pity you. Grow up and stop giving Republicans ammunition for the general election, unless that is your goal.

[jalan48]

43. Oh my! Vile is it? Sounds like somebody hit a nerve.

[jwirr]

39. Old lady here K&R for a great post. Thank you from my family.

[jalan48]

42. Thank you.

[Chitown Kev]

44. All I will say is that this is a fair discussion to have

in fact its overdue... but DU isn't the place to have it and defintely not under these circumstances.

[1StrongBlackMan]

51. Yep ... and

in fact its overdue bu DU isn't the place to have it and defintely not under these circumstances.

And definitely, not to be had in white space. But, somehow, I don't think someone that refers to the elders as "enemies from within", will understand that.

I can't tell if some of this is performance art, or merely a performance for a particular (read: white) audience.

[Chitown Kev]

57. Yeah, now there is a term that we call that in the black community

that I can't say here because it would get hidden

[johnlucas]

93. Private Message me the term if you don't wanna say it here & we'll talk about it

Gotta stop worrying about what the White folks say.
This is the Internet Age. Ain't no secrets anymore.
That's why they're twerking right now.

Somebody gotta say it so I'll take it upon myself TO say it.
The late Eric Garner's mother is going for Hillary...
...but the late Eric Garner's daughter is going for Bernie.
And that says a WHOLE lot about what's going on in this country & our community.

I live in Georgia with a church damn near every half a mile.
Yet we're STILL mostly in struggle.
Maybe we should be building businesses instead of churches all the damn time.
Where is all that tithing going?
How much can the building fund REALLY be?

We're so damn passive & all this stuff just keeps going ON & ON & ON & ON & ON & ON & ON!!
And I'm TIRED of this shit!!!
Dylann Roof goes into your church that you welcomed him to & kills you...
...and then you say "WE FORGIVE YOU!!"
FUCK HIM!! DESTROY THAT SON OF A BITCH!!!

The Bundys terrorize Oregon with guns & get a slap on the wrist for the most part.
We're unarmed & we get beat down like we're a terrorist threat.
Ferguson looked like Iraqi occupation more than a Missouri street.
And after all that we just take it. We just shut down & move on with our day.
We just get apathetic because it's too hard to process all the abuse we go through in USA.
Some of us escape with drugs. Some of us escape with Jesus. But we're all escaping.
Problem is that ain't the exit. That ain't the escape hatch.

And when you FINALLY have a remote chance of finding a exit, you escape into Pantsuit-ville thinking she's gonna bring you on.
Yeah, Private Message me that term you wanna say so we can talk about it in private.
But don't EVER think I'm gonna keep it on the low just for the sake of the White folks.
Black folks need to hear it. EVERYBODY needs to hear it.

John Lucas

[1StrongBlackMan]

94. LOL ...

You're betraying that you are true of the community.

Damn you, man! We are supposed to be elitists that don't give a shit about the Black community because we are not broke!

[johnlucas]

80. 1StrongBlackMan meet ANOTHER Strong Black Man

Oh so you have a problem with me calling this situation out in front of White folks.
I don't care if White folks if hear it or not.
This needs to be said & this needs to be addressed.

I'm not the one to start lowering my volume when I notice White folks around.
That's that plantation bullshit & I don't play that mess.
That "Speak your mind loud & proud! But be careful if them White folks hear you." kind of thing.
We do TOO MUCH of that shit.

I live in Georgia. I see it all the time.
Scared of losing their job or losing their status because they're scared what White folks will say.
I link that phenomenon to the reason why Black gangs are so quick to shoot themselves up but totally terrified to point them same guns at the cops who brutalize us.

Black people's heritage is this country is to speak TRUTH TO POWER.
We're the CONSCIENCE of this country.
WE are the ones who tell on this country not living up to the brochure it advertises.
We do it better than anybody else.
It's what we're known for.
And Ashley Williams exposing Hillary Clinton right in her very FACE is just one more of endless examples of us doing just that.
Bree Newsome with that disgrace of a flag in South Carolina, same thing.
Even Beyoncé at the Super Bowl.
Nobody else had the guts to say "Fuck Tha Police" other than Black folks like N.W.A.
That's what we DO, 1StrongBlackMan.

But you're not the ONLY Strong Black Man out here.
I'm one TOO.
And I'm not gonna wait for the "proper time" or "proper place" to address this problem.
I have to call out my heroes, 1StrongBlackMan.
If I didn't care I wouldn't do it.
And you think this is the first time this has happened between generations of us in our Equality Movements?
You think this is the first time this has happened even within the same generation???
Malcolm called out Martin! And he did it in front of White folks!

It's the same thing that goes on in hip-hop all the time.
When you're falling off, when you're screwing up, you get called on it.
And you get called on it in front of EVERYBODY. That's the whole point.
Louis Farrakhan called out Michael during the Thriller days & later supported him in his trial days.

Yep, enemies within.
Unwitting enemies perhaps but enemies nevertheless.
They're backing the wrong horse. Hillary won't do a doggone thing for us.
All she will do is "perform" & do a couple of stunts.
Wherever her donors go, she will go.
And we ain't got enough money to get her attention.
After she's done playing Black Church & busting the Nae-Nae with the kids, it's back to the "REAL" issues.
And our community will be left holding the bag yet again.

Nah, not this time.
We're not going out like that this time.
And if the majority of older Blacks continue backing the wrong horse, we'll just have to knock that horse down.
If they prevent us from doing it, then they will go down WITH that horse.
Our social, economic, & physical survival rests on this election.
This is not a game & this is not time to be paying back political favors.
John Lewis may have let the Clintons use him but they will not use ME.

See you on Super Tuesday.
John Lucas

[JonLeibowitz]

84. +100. That is a damn good post -- patriotic while calling out the injustices our country let stand!

[Chitown Kev]

88. Well, I'm not about to have this conversation in front of white folks and

I'm not about to have this conversation over Bernie Sanders an Hillary Clinton, eye-ther.

and I have called out Hillary Clinton over Ashley Williams (I don't hesitate to call out the church folk eye-ther)...so my record is quite clear on that note...

[luxpara4]

183. I don't understand, why not in front of everyone?

It sounds like something that all of us need to hear and understand.

[polly7]

188. Then how do you expect people to understand what you mean? nt.

[Chitown Kev]

195. It's not meant for white folks to understand or to act on

I'll speak for myself, I don't trust most white people.

Simply because the latest band of white folks come along and say "trust us" means diddly squat 'cause I have personally noted how y'all act.

For example, the number of Bernie supporters that embrace a surrogate of Bernie's calling the the first black POTUS a "Rockefeller Republican in blackface" and a "niggerized" president...far rtoo many Sanders suporters have taken glee at both the substance of Dr. West's comments and the language which he used.

[polly7]

196. Wow. Broadbrush much?

That's just sad.

Nobody is telling you to trust them. They're sharing Sanders ideas and vision with everyone, not just you. And those proposals and plans include everyone and are meant to help all Americans. You enjoy the divisiveness you're creating yourself for some reason. But - it's not about one group, one race, one gender, one anything.

[Chitown Kev]

198. Not a broadbrush

I read a LOT of history. And that would include the history and tendencies of white liberals to behave in a paternalistic way toward black people and for white liberals to think that your white voices are the most important voices in political (and other) matters.

It's a big part of the reason that some black organizations kicked whites out of black liberation organizations in the 1960's.

[ladjf]

90. John Lucas sounds like an intelligent, creative and courageous American.

I'm going to pay attention to what he's saying. I like his style.

[nc4bo]

231. +1. He's put to words what I've always thought throughout my life.

It's also what I've taught my kids everyday and even now that they are grown.

Question everything and everyone.

Black folk. White folk. <insert race here>folk. EVERYONE has an angle. Figure out what that is and you've immunized yourself from being brainwashed or programmed by those with purely self-serving agendas.

I appreciate JohnLucas speaking up and sharing his mind and his truth.

Black people are NOT a monolith!!!! Even black people need to be reminded of that fact.

[John Poet]

103. TELL IT, bro! eom

[George II]

46. That is not Sanders in the photograph - even his campaign has admitted it (several times)

[Orrex]

53. Link, please?

[Beartracks]

75. There's this...

http://www.snopes.com/sanders-mlk-selma-march/


====================

[WillyT]

47. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[TM99]

49. I am a bi-racial Gen X'er,

and I support much of what you write here.

You do need to make one correction.

Sanders was a part of CORE in Chicago and yes all of those photos from the early 1960's in Chicago are of Sanders.

Sanders was not a part of Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. He never met John Lewis, and that photo of MLK and Lewis does not include Sanders. He has confirmed that that was not him.

Your OP deserves to be read and heard. There are too many PoC who are Clinton supporters here (even if they won't all admit it) who will attack other PoC who support Sanders. We are not the 'right' PoC. So don't give them any fuel. Edit this post and then let's tease this out further.

Thanks!

[Iggo]

52. "Old Blacks"? Is that a thing?

[Dems to Win]

54. Bravo! Take all your friends to the polls!

And ask your elders, the ones who love you, to vote for Bernie Sanders for your future. Many will do so, if you ask them.

[FighttheFuture]

56. Failed... no. Each generation stands on the shoulders of the previous. It is then up to the next..

generation to propel themselves forward from that footing. I do not think they failed you. I think they are more comfortable with Hillary and the Clinton name (very popular in the South) she embodies than someone they really do not know well (thanks MSM) like Bernie. In time many would come around to Bernie but three may not be enough time.

Regardless, rather than thinking they failed you, consider that they took you forward to a point much better than where they started from. Now it is up to you to take it from there. We are all in this together, so appreciate what they did, but make yourselves heard now!! It is your time!

[MaggieD]

59. The majority of young AA didn't vote for him either

At some point you might want to face the fact that most Americans just don't agree with socialism. It's pretty simple. Stop making it more complicated than it is.

[Chitown Kev]

73. To be fair, though

Actually, black people are more likely to have a positive of socialism than any other ethnicity...and that's by far.

Secondly, the black youth vote in South Carolina was nowhere near as lopsided as the older black vote...remember that in 2008, black youth were more likely to support Obama than the older generation (which supported Obama as well)

[noiretextatique]

82. SOCIALISM...does not have the same scare factor as in the 1950's

Not even for black people. But please, continue.

[Waiting For Everyman]

61. Outstanding, johnlucas!

Couldn't agree more with your entire post -- well thought out and well written. I have a little less generous view of the old icons, but being their age myself that is probably understandable.

I am shocked and appalled to realize that they have not been informing the black community about who is perpetuating the most devastating problems. Although I have to say, it's a lot like the WW2 generation selling out us boomers in the Viet Nam era. You can't always trust the older generation, unfortunately.

This election has also shown me that Gen-Xers and Millennials are a much more independent thinking bunch than I was aware of! Very glad this is so.

Excellent post!

[Helen Borg]

63. Stop posting pictures of Hillary wearing a Bernie mask!

[FangedNoumenom]

64. Dr. Cornel West said it best

"We've got a black political class confusing the gravy train with the freedom train."

[dchill]

65. Thank you for this, John.

[PatrynXX]

69. Explain it to "I stand with her?" tuesday

that the GE is not set in stone. Quit acting like Mittens and yall know how that turned out. (karl rove probably still asking Meg hey come on where are the real votes. No don't take my word for it. Thats your choice.

[Setsuna1972]

72. I have a question for you

I've been serving o resets for the past 3 years and Tursday I'm voting in the Virginia primary for Hillary . I'd like to know in advance just how unimportant and treasonous you'll be calling me .

[jonestonesusa]

76. I'm with a lot of this OP as an "old black" myself.

All politicians - John Lewis, James Clyburn, the CBC, and Bernie Sanders/HRC alike, need to be able to accept accountability for what they have done, and what they have not done. Period. That's the nature of politics, and the harsh criticisms are simply pointing to the work that is undone. It takes a strong individual to step up and lead, but the reality is that not enough has been done to create the right conditions in this country for fairness and justice, and there's accountability for everyone.

I have deep respect for what elders and ancestors have done on my behalf, and at the same time, the work is undone. This is more than obvious. We still live in a racist society, and the political legacy of both Clintons has contributed to the continuation of that racist social structure in many ways. Is that even in dispute at this point? Why wouldn't it be expected that at least one alternative to Clinton (Sanders) get due consideration by all Dem voters?

The stakes are extremely high in this election to see if any real change in policy and national direction happens at all. One thing I like about this OP is that there's no pretense that this election is just a horse race. The alienation of voters is spoken of - symbolized by the 12.5% Democratic voter turnout in the South Carolina primary, the vote of no confidence in the American political system, including the two Dems that are running. Any Clinton supporter who is doing an end zone dance over winning a primary in this environment is losing sight of the overall conditions that this OP speaks of. At the bare minimum, we all need a real policy debate in the primaries followed by a sustained movement for justice, with the Dem nominee being a part of the solution. If the Dem nominee is Hillary Clinton - no more excuses, she'll be in charge and face her own accountability for campaign promises. Meanwhile, I'm organizing for Sanders as a better alternative to Clinton.

[Chitown Kev]

109. +10

Last edited Mon Feb 29, 2016, 03:16 AM - Edit history (1)

Let me add here that I do not think that Sanders is an alternative to Clinton w/r/t the issue here...from it, in fact

[johnlucas]

110. jonestonesusa, thank you

Thank you for understanding me.
It's hard to simultaneously have reverence for what your elders did for you & anger at their bad decisions.
It makes me think of my late Great Uncle.
I considered him like a Second Father, that's how much respect I had for him.
But at the same time, he did some ridiculous shit.
There were aspect of him I made part of my identity & there were aspects of him that I said I will NEVER incorporate.
So I didn't follow everything he did 100%.
Hell, I didn't even follow everything my OWN father did 100% & I admired him too.

I see John Lewis in the same light.
Reverence mixed with anger.
Respect mixed with disgust.
It's a complicated feeling.

The stakes may not be as real to that generation as it is to mine & younger.
Guess it's hard to relate if you're not living it.

I have wondered for decades why the Democratic Party is such a weak organization.
When I first joined this forum in 2008, I already made the point that I no longer identify as Democrat.
I just vote with them.
In my post history you'll see me break down the distinction between DEMOCRATIC & UNDERGROUND.
I'm part of the UNDERGROUND.
And I want the UNDERGROUND to till new soil to make better healthier DEMOCRATIC plants.
Seeing what happened in South Carolina makes me see nothing but weeds.

Do they REALLY want this tired dead status quo to keep going on like this?
Do they REALLY want a demoralized Democratic Party who wins Presidential elections but drops the ball on the midterms?
And the answer I came up with is YES.
And once I came up with that answer I had to ask myself who's responsible for saying YES.
Hence the call out.

You would THINK a person who came from the Movement would recognize the importance of building a party & coalition that is energized. One that has lasting resonance & can totally shift the political narrative of this country.
One where we don't have to acknowledge the Republican way of doing things.
One that ends the triangulation & "bi-partisanship" bullshit.
One that is unapologetic in championing what it supposedly stands for.
Who from a former movement for justice would get in the way of that?
Hence the call out.

YES you took the words out of my mouth!
The biggest portion of the population is NON-VOTERS!
Most People Don't Vote Because Most People Don't Think It Works!
I have a friend right now who I'm TRYING to convince to vote.
He's blasé about the whole thing because he doesn't see a difference in his day to day life.
I'm trying to get him involved & it's uphill.
How is THIS time supposed to be different than every other time REALLY?
He DOES fit some of that Generation X apathetic cynical snarky stereotype.

If Bernie becomes the nominee it might become that much easier to convince him.
I KNOW Hillary has no chance of getting him out to the polls.
At least Bernie has a track record that is consistent decade after decade.
That MIGHT change his mind on voting if he sees that become successful.

Our elders have made the wrong call & we don't have the luxury to make the wrong call right now.
There's a reason I didn't say ALL Old Blacks.
Some still remember what the mission was all about & are still fighting in their own ways.
But like in a lot of things in life (dreams, ambitions) many have just given up.
Instead of Raging Against the Machine they became one of the Gears.
It may be easier that way but it ain't good.
But easy gets easier to do when you're tired.
You don't have the energy to rage anymore.

Somehow the oldest candidate in this race still has the energy somehow.
He aged but he didn't get OLD. He didn't get TIRED. He didn't give up.
That's why I gotta support him.
John Lucas

[jonestonesusa]

136. Sure thing. Thanks for the OP!

When you said "old black," I claimed it, being born towards the end of the Civil Rights movement but more than a decade before Reaganomics. I saw it growing up how much positive impact and change my elders had made in the opportunities that were available at the time I grew up. It wasn't a paradise, but just having Pell Grants and Section 8 housing made a difference in our family's life, at that time. Not everyone was able to take advantage of this kind of option, and even then there was a lot of alienation and lack of opportunity for all. But there was a still a solid black community in North Omaha where I grew up, with a decent job base, and being in lower wage work still allowed you to pay the bills, more or less. The combination of Reagans, Clintons, and Bushes, with their pro-trade, anti-worker, pro-prison mind set, their willingness to profit personally from their political actions - this is a symbol of what has changed.

So, I still have a lot of reverence for what elders have done in my family and in the communities I grew up in, and I can understand your critique as well. Maybe our elders were glad to find a political friend like the Clintons - my mom was from Arkansas originally and she liked Bill Clinton, admired him. I have never understood the appeal of Bill Clinton myself - the only time I ever supported him was when he was pandering to liberals in 1992, when anybody but Bush was the way I felt. Somehow, he and his spouse have stayed popular among black voters ever since then. It is what it is.

Meanwhile - the elders had a lot to deal with, against lots of challenges after the movement. The backlash against civil rights was bigger than anyone thought it would be, in my opinion, and the evils of racism, crack cocaine, mass incarceration, de-industrialization of cities, it has all hit hard. So the best we can do is look forward, learn from the mistakes of our elders and our own mistakes, and organize for change. Sanders gets it when it comes to relying on the people to really move us forward, rather than the Clinton style of promises, promises, followed by favoring Wall Street when push comes to shove, making their deals in buildings that I wouldn't be welcome in with my JC Penney clothing, let alone the millions of people who are completely excluded from institutions in this country.

There's a lot to get done, and I appreciate your reminding us of how much we need to bring a new seriousness to the work, for the sake of all who are suffering and all future generations.

Peace.

[McCamy Taylor]

78. Divide and conquer by age?

[Number23]

81. What an idiotic and disgusting post. I'm black and don't have a gray hair yet and I reject every

single line of this embarrassing OP. I'm sure that it will resonate well here though. Which in and of itself is extremely telling.

[vdogg]

91. Bernie supporters are going straight ham today.

It's been a wild 24 hrs.

[Number23]

97. Very telling who is falling all over this OP.

Not in even the tiniest, most minute way SURPRISING. But telling nonetheless.

[1StrongBlackMan]

100. Which should be a tell for the OP , as to why ..

as ChiTownKev said, this topic is something that can, and should be discussed, but DU is NOT he place to do so.

[Jester Messiah]

104. So you're saying it's

"not the time?" He should raise his questions in a more acceptable way maybe?

[noiretextatique]

114. He's saying not in front of white folks nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

121. Exactly. eom

[noiretextatique]

127. I am not certain I agree

But I do understand. Clearly, the OP doesn't agree.

[1StrongBlackMan]

133. Clearly ... But my conviction is my conviction. ...

I will NEVER, ever, have that conversation witnessed by white folks ... it's none of their business and leaves to much room for non-Black folks to use whatever comes out of the discussion to attack a Black person.

[Arazi]

135. Fine, then don't participate but why silence others AAs?

[1StrongBlackMan]

146. Where have I tried to silence anyone? eom

[Arazi]

148. Here

1StrongBlackMan (27,891 posts)
100. Which should be a tell for the OP , as to why ..

as ChiTownKev said, this topic is something that can, and should be discussed, but DU is NOT he place to do so.
Please Note: I AM NOT SAYING BERNIE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE ... AFTER ALL, HE MARCHED WITH MARTIN!

"DU is not the place to do so" sounds an awful lot like STFU to me

[1StrongBlackMan]

153. Advising restraint is not STFU. But if you hear STFU, when what was actually said was ...

"DU is not the place to do so", then that is on you ... No?

[Arazi]

159. Oh, I see, completely different

we are on a discussion board and you're telling folks, black folks, to STFU here

But that's not really STFU because you're giving "permission" to have this conversation...somewhere else?

Ooookay. I'll just let that hang out there

[1StrongBlackMan]

161. You just do that. eom.

[TeeYiYi]

170. Everyone hears STFU...

All of your wink wink, nudge nudge, secret handshake, 'not in front of the whites' bullshit was read perfectly clear, here in the GDP forum. I'm sure you get away with that kind of crap in your safe haven group because no one goes there anymore,... with so many eggshells and banishment threats to circumnavigate.

So, there's a 'black' conversation happening in GDP that you're unable to control and it's making you uncomfortable. You're trying to rein in the errant black guy, DU's 'new white hero', with offers of your email addy and/or phone number but he's just not following your lead...

Welcome to the real world, 1StrongBlackMan, where people of every stripe and hue discuss real world politics and issues with each other. In addition to old black voters, there are old white and latino voters too; and all are having an effect on the outcome of elections so it's a timely discussion, and one to be had by everyone...not just a select few in the privacy of their favorite safe haven group or echo chamber.

You want to have the discussion but you don't want anyone else to be included in that discussion... Get a grip. We're in the middle of a contentious primary election and heading into a precarious general election. This is exactly the time and exactly the place where we should be having this discussion.

TYY

[1StrongBlackMan]

171. LOL ... Were you saying something? eom

[noiretextatique]

152. Your conviction...I understand eom

[1StrongBlackMan]

120. No ... I was clear, and so was ChiTown ...

DU is NOT the place for such discussions ... for a number of reasons, its anonymous format, being not the least factor.

[Arazi]

126. Well clearly other AA DUers disagree with you

who decided that you get to pick what's discussed here?

If any DUers dared to silence other AAs here, they'd be justifiably excoriated

[noiretextatique]

128. Especially considering...

There has been such a large amount of space dedicated to the conspiracy to silence Black Duers. Ironic.

[Chitown Kev]

155. As if black DUers aren't aware that certain black DUers get on the DU list

under the heading of "approved negro speech"

We all know that Black Agenda Report was the go to site for (mostly) white DUers until BAR started slamming and calling out Bernie Sanders.

[noiretextatique]

162. Now it is the AA forum

The go to site for all white, non-racist Hillary supporters. Then they can lecture me about...everything...with the non-racist seal-of-approval. Good job Plenty of examples in this thread. But then again, this OP is on the "good negro" speech list, unlike bravenak's intellectual masterpiece: "Sanders thinks all black people are poor." Isn't about time for another persecution post?

[Chitown Kev]

165. Ah, I did not go there about "good negro"/"bad negro" politics...

though you know full well the reasons that game has to played...and this Bernie/Hillary contest is not an exception to THAT rule.

[noiretextatique]

228. What the hell...you most certainly did go there

[Chitown Kev]

129. Oh, and I am NOT about to have this conversation

over Bernie's and Hillary's tired asses either.

[Jester Messiah]

131. Sketchy. You want to be able to hold a non-conformist to account? Yikes. [nt]

[1StrongBlackMan]

137. I really don't care whether you find my explanation sketchy ...

and you know nothing of "that conversation" if you think it has anything to do with "hold(ing) a non-conformist to account."

So kindly remove yourself from this discussion.

[Jester Messiah]

202. I'll do as I please.

If you're uncomfortable getting called out, that's on you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

211. I am going to but in

but just with what you will treat as something else. As I jew I get it... I absolutely get it. But you see, that OP that you do not like... is not unlike a lot of the stuff younger African American leaders in the Black Lives Matter movement are saying in my local streets. One of them actually said that he was tired of getting told that he needed to keep his mouth shut about what the kids thought about their elders when whites were around. And for the record, he does not.

This conversation is also happening among Jews by the way. It is breaking along the same age demographics for the most part, and it involves something else. I don't go into that here, because quite brutally honest, I do not like the wars here. But I have had that discussion on facebook, where ironically you can have it, Not on DU though.

We both know that the AA community is far from monolithic. The we don't discuss these things in white spaces, or call our elders to task in white spaces is one way that this necessary pretense of unity is maintained. Just like with my Jewish community, and trust me, it is not united either. African Americans are starting to have that conversation and it coming, from the kids locally... the fact that politics has completely failed them... all they got to show for supporting Dems is mass incarceration and many of those young people are seriously taking a look at the republican party. They speak in far more revolutionary terms at times by the way than just the vote or who to vote for, or if it is even worth it. It is almost as if the Black Panthers (the one Hoover imagined, not the real ones) were back.

So I get it, and I admit it, most people here do not understand it, because majority communities do not need safe spaces, but this is one hell of a change election and it is also starting to change the dynamics within communities,

Oh and chew on this one. On Saturday Rev Al Sharpton was here. I posted the story, which included the full tape, except ten seconds, tom had to restart it when it stopped recording. I notice you guys seem not to even acknowledge that was posted here, or the fact that I post a lot of what happens in minority communities here, but you did not call one of your allies on disparaging Al Sharpton, the way you would call me either. I find that transparent. But I digress

As we were waiting a kid, not older than ten, who was brought to this by his elders, actually asked who is this old guy? So we told him, the kid addressed a bunch of reporters waiting, so we did. And a few others, my husband heard then in the sanctuary asking the same question from their parents. Nppe, except for Shane Harris's son, most kids were not wearing suit and tie either, so this was not a complaint about bring forced to dress in Sunday best to listen to this guy they have never heard about. They simply have never heard of him.. So that tells me that just like my community is already having that issue with a whole different matter, memory is starting to fade in yours as well.

Coming from me I also expect you to fully ignore it. It is just an observation, But what John posted, that younger AA are angry at their elders, is real. How large is that group... well it's like asking me how large is the group of American Jews (hardly a monolithic community either), are having issues about Israel... I have a better idea on that one, but not a good idea. For multiple complex reasons I am not that plugged into my community that deeply.

[jonestonesusa]

102. So why not discuss the issues you disagree with from the OP instead of posting innuendo?

What I agree with from the OP is that at the end of the day, elections are one important tool that can potentially support more justice to all communities. Are our electoral choices moving us in that direction? If not, there's accountability - for legends and giants as well as for everyday people. How will this election, and these candidates, help us move there?

If we don't talk about these questions relative to the current candidates, what's the point of DU?

[noiretextatique]

125. Innuendo makes for better outrage

Let's not say that John Lewis made a fool of himself shilling for Hillary, let's just express outrage that anyone would dare say that about John Lewis. Goodness...even he knew he went too far and corrected his initial statement. And...that one incident doesn't change what he's done...the OP said he is stull his hero.There should be no issue about holding him or any other politician accountable. Offense and outrage = dismissive. I don't agree with everything he writes, and he uses some harsh language, but he has a point. No one should deny that some of the older guard have been looking out for interests that are not compatible with his...or mine. There is nothing more or less outrageous about that statemenst because he is talking about black politicians instead of white ones. Perhaps we need to hear from more people who have been pawns in grand bargains.

[jack_krass]

123. Oh yeah? Who might that be? Do tell :)

[Setsuna1972]

98. Tell me about it

Somebody whom I've never met is calling me a loser because I plan on voting for Hillary this Tuesday. That's. Easy !

[jack_krass]

122. Who do you think should be embarresed by this OP?

[Arazi]

124. More than a few AA DUers believe this is a valid conversation

they just object to it in "public"

[felix_numinous]

87. As if any one demographic are all the same

the Black population has as much diversity within as any other and it is great to hear from everyone. Great post (despite the photo flak)

Yes, I have observed many/most millenials and gen-xers appear to have grown past the old games and lies, and are ready to move mountains. This makes my heart happy

[BumRushDaShow]

99. Oh FFS

Not this shit again.

[Jitter65]

107. Keep pushing that meme and I guarantee that the black vote will be lost all over. i can't

believe that Sanders would be giving approval to this notion by his black supporters.

I can't even begin to tell you how horrible this sentiment will be to older blacks. Just won't go there.

[noiretextatique]

113. You think Sanders controls all of his supporters?

And what they write on message boards? And where do you think the black vote is going...hmmm? To the republicons? I don't think his message is for older black americans. Finally, do you see ANY irony...at all...in your post? Any?

[johnlucas]

117. On this very thread some older Blacks agree with me.

If what I said is so devastating they won't be hearing me anyway.
They would be already in the tank for Hillary.
They think more of that kind of politics is the right thing to do.

It's time to make a break from that structure.
Not tomorrow. TODAY.
All of my life I have seen an ineffective cowardly WEAK Democratic Party.
I'm tired of seeing it.

Obama was supposed to transform this party but he didn't do it.
But for damn sure Bernie's gonna do it.
This man from day one said "I am a Socialist" & didn't flinch.
That's the kinda guy who's gonna take this party to new heights.
We'll kill all that wimpy Third Way triangulation scared-ass compromising bullshit.
The Democratic Party will start to speak with some BASS in their voice.
They're not gonna stutter when they advocate for their plans.

I want Bernie to ABSOLUTELY transform this pathetic party.
And not just nationally.
I want to see state-level & regional shifts as well.
Those hanging on to the old ways will wash out with those old ways.
A new breed is coming to takeover.
One that dares to dream BIG & go BIG.
One that has the guts to dare the opposition to oppose them.
One that has bite with its bark.

When I see Nina Turner speak I see that kind of power waiting to be unleashed.
That's the kind of people Bernie's Democratic Party will have all across the board.
If the Black Vote can't see this reality, we're ALREADY lost.
John Lucas

[noiretextatique]

119. I really don't think that post deserved a reply

But good on you for bothering. If that had been posted in a pro-Hillary thread... All hell would break loose.

[johnlucas]

134. noirtextatique, thank you for your words on this thread

I know what I was saying wasn't unfounded.
I knew it would resonate.
I figured it would piss off people too but let 'em piss.
It has to be said.

Oh I already got banned from the Hillary Clinton forum for daring to counter a post where mothers of Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, Jordan Davis, Sandra Bland, & Dontre Hamilton endorsed Hillary Clinton.
I posted that they will be supporting Bernie soon just like Eric Garner's daughter Erica.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110753696#post20

They didn't like that message & shut me out.
Is that REALLY how an open forum is supposed to conduct business?
A forum where you DON'T get challenged???
Never heard of such a thing.

This thread is really on fire.
Probably my most popular post in my entire 8 years on this forum.
I was just supposed to pop in, make the post, & pop out.
And now it's 7 hours later & I'm still typing replies!

But that just means it was the right message to be heard.
Even for the ones who detract from it.

I'll respond to your messages & others later on.
I gotta take a break & get something to eat.
But once again thank you for taking the time to consider my viewpoint.
I am frustrated with how things are going on right now.
John Lucas

[noiretextatique]

140. Honey, that is a badge of honor here!

To be banned from that group is an honor I share with you...and over 500 others. And no, they are not interested in honest discussion...just an echo chamber of warm and fuzzies about the inevitable one. I will check back in later too...need to eat myself

[TeeYiYi]

144. Me too...

...Just kidding. Try to save some for later.

re: "need to eat myself"

TYY

[noiretextatique]

150. Lmao!!!!!!

freudian slip is showing

[proverbialwisdom]

210. Seen this?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/hillary-clinton-moms-black-lives-matter

...They all described an intensive courtship by the Clinton campaign that began quietly, through back channels and outside the glare of the national media.

[Dont call me Shirley]

108. K & R, johnlucas

[noiretextatique]

111. Well...you have certainly attracted the outrage brigade

I notice, however, few have addressed the subject of your post. I have often thought that my generation (and older) failed the younger generations. We are complicit in the democratic party' strategies to the extent that we continue to support them. Some people get rewarded by the machine for their loyalty...some of them are black. There is nothing wrong, or disgusting about saying that...it is true. I agree with you that it is time for the younger generations to make their votes and their voices heard. Unlike some here, I understand that the civil rights movement was not necessarily embraced by all those affected by white supremacy. I am sure some thought it was a radical and dangerous proposition. Likewise, there were those, like a young Malcolm X, who thought King's non-violent ideals were foolish. There is much disagreement among black people. I tend to agree with you about Lewis, but I know others do not. I am glad you said that though you vehemently disagree with his actions, and perhaps motives re: Sanders, he is still a hero to you. He knew he went too far too, hence his correction later. Anyway...I hope you are working to motivate other young black people in particular, to vote for Sanders. You will no doubt be met with some outrage, but that means you at hit some nerves. Remember...this is what change looks like.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

116. Hi John, I saw this play out in Chicago about a year ago

After Rahm Emanual won re-election by the narrowest of margins in a run off, I was beside myself. I had to find out who carried him to re-election. What I found, I couldn't believe: poor blacks overwhelmingly voted for Rahm.

Rahm Emanuel doesn't care about the south side of Chicago. He's Chicago's real estate developer in chief and none of that development happens south of downtown. Nope, close 50 schools and he's done with the south side. He spends his afternoons trying to lure big investors. The money never gets to the most neglected neighborhoods. Police abuses? Never stuck until after he was re-elected and the city was forced to turnover the Laquan McDonald video. That's when BLM showed up and demands that Rahm resign immediately for past sins and neglect.

All of this is common knowledge. So why did poor blacks vote for Rahm? This article helped a lot, and I think it's in line with your thinking. The article refers to preachers and community leaders, but not by name. For the record, Jesse Jackson broke with them and endorsed Rahm's opponent.

Blame the Black Political Class For Re-Electing Obama's Mayor Rahm Emanuel in Chicago
http://www.blackagendareport.com/black-misleaders-re-elect-rahm

[johnlucas]

130. This is it EXACTLY! And now you see the results!

DAMN!!! How timely was this post of mine!
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!!!
EXACTLY!!!! DAMN!!!!

We keep falling for the okey-doke & we got our own people doing the okey!
THAT'S why I'm angry about South Carolina.
John Lewis, James Clyburn, & others is how Hillary got that outcome on Saturday.
When I saw a post in the Hillary Clinton forum with all the mothers of Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, Sandra Bland, Jordan Davis, Dontre Hamilton endorsing Hillary, I had to counter that.
And I put up Eric Garner's daughter Erica Garner & her personal endorsement of Bernie Sanders.
I said that all of these mothers will be supporting Bernie soon just like Erica is.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110753696#post20

That post got me banned from the Hillary Clinton forum but oh well.
I would NOT sit by & let Hillary dupe everybody with her phoniness.
Those mothers are hurting & I don't blame them for not seeing through Hillary.
They're just doing what they think is best in the midst of their grief.
But Erica's anger is especially strong & she will not be played by this chameleon.
Eric Garner's mother can't see what Eric Garner's daughter sees.

I believe that Eric Garner's mother gets her info from the TV media & established newspaper media.
Erica Garner knows that you're not gonna get the real story from those sources & is using this internet to find the truth.
And that's why she offered her endorsement.
She knows her grandmother is WRONG even if her grandmother is well-meaning.
She's not taking another Rahm Emanuel.
She wants to see a REAL difference.

And credit to Jesse Jackson, one of the elders who broke ranks.
But why should he have to break ranks in the first place?
THAT'S why I made this post.

John Lucas

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

141. And look who flew in to endorse Garcia.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/17814/bernie_sanders_endorses_chuy_garcia_in_chicago_mayoral_election

[noiretextatique]

147. +1000 this is rich

Thank you for sharing.

[Nyan]

201. Bernie...on the right side of the history again, I see.

I didn't know about poor blacks carrying Rahm to the office. That is just so disheartening...

[johnlucas]

233. And then these same poor Blacks carried Rahm's backer Hillary in Illinois last night

How in the HELL can you protest Rahm Emanuel yet back the woman who supports him?????

Not enough of us are plugged in to the facts.
Not all of us but many of us have dropped the ball in this election.
Not all of us but many of us have backed the wrong candidate in this election.

Don't they realize that Hillary has no chance against Trump?
Don't they realize that Hillary is compromised being funded by Trump & friended by Trump?
Don't they realize that it's actually Bernie who is able to landslide Trump? And do it with ease?

Her winning Florida & North Carolina was expected but winning all 5 states last night in either virtual ties or outright defeats is a DISGRACE!!
My anger towards John Lewis is even greater today than it was 3 weeks ago when I first posted this thread.

He might have ruined our chance to get REAL justice in this system in his need to pay back those Clinton favors.
And this is why I maintain that our elders FAILED us.

It's now up to the West Coast & Mountain States to save us.
Hopefully the Latinos, Asians, & Native Americans can get right what most Blacks have got wrong.
And of course the Whites as well.
How could Midwesterners vote for the NAFTA candidate?

John Lucas

[Nyan]

234. Apparently they didn't realize any of that.

They all watch teevee. And teevee says Trump and Hillary.

I think many Americans don't even have any concept of corruption. Not anymore.
If it was any other foreign leader running to become the head of country that's refusing to release transcripts of speech they gave to big business behind closed doors, we would call it corruption.
How long do they think we can continue with this? With this corrupt Washington regime? It's really not sustainable. We can't go on like this.
We don't know what's gonna happen to our pension when there's another financial crash (and that's not "if." It's "when&quot , we don't know if our drinking water is safe anymore, we don't know what we're stuffing in our mouth anymore, we don't know exactly how many human beings have been killed and maimed in the name of Americans, we don't know what the fuck we're still doing in Afghanistan, we don't know when we're gonna get the hell out of MENA, we don't know for how many years we have to be in crushing debt for getting college education. We don't know how many instances of earthquakes will ensue in our neighborhood as a result of fracking.

And they expect pissed-off white Americans to bow down to probably the most corrupt democrat in American history, and let her lecture them on how "love trumps hate"?
Yeah. Good luck with that.

It took less than 30% of population to vote for Hitler in Weimar republic. But then, what really made him rise to the power was Germany's spineless, amoral liberal class that was unable (or unwilling) to fix their ailing economy, creating some really desperate people.
We have a lot of desperate people. Too many of them. And that's dangerous. They're so desperate they'll hang on to anything. They'll hang on to orange orangutan with 3rd-grade linguistic ability and a series of failed business ventures. But you can bet they'll have that over duplicitous, corrupt faux-liberal who has sold them down the shitter for the last two decades.

[johnlucas]

235. That's why I'm so mad at John Lewis & other Black leaders

Shit even Jesse Jackson wouldn't endorse Bernie & Bernie endorsed him TWICE!
Jesse Jackson could have made the case in Chicago.

The internet exists. It's an endless library.
The facts are out there & there're not too hard to find.

John Lewis helped turn Blacks away from Bernie with his bullshit.
And if I lived in Atlanta I would vote his ass out of office for that stupidity.
Cooning for Hillary. What the HELL!

Lots of Blacks seem to like pandering it looks like.
I'm not one of them.

You vote for Hillary you'll KEEP drinking that lead water in Flint.
You'll KEEP getting shot in the streets with no justice.
You'll KEEP losing ground economically as she trades what little jobs you still have overseas in these trade deals.

I don't know the intricate details on every single issue & I STILL can see that Bernie has the right answers.
You don't even have to know that much to understand what he's saying & how much it makes sense.

Hey fund The Young Turks.
They're one major outlet that's breaking this reality down on the internet in a major way.
I'll be so glad when internet media finally overtakes TV media.
And The Young Turks is one key factor in making that happen.

We're not finished even though last night was bad.
We're going to California & we're gonna win this nomination.
Let Hillary be smug for now. We'll shock her ass once again.
John Lucas

[Nyan]

236. ...and Elizabeth Warren would have made the case in MA. But she didn't.

So few have the courage to stand up for what's right. It took Alan Grayson long enough. Marcy Kaptur long enough. Tulsi Gabbard long enough. Good thing they came through eventually, but as for Elizabeth Warren, she had a chance to be a leader and she blew it. From the get-go, it should have been all the few remaining progressives revolting against out-of-control, money-grubbing establishment dems. Not an old man running around the country alone. They should have been standing next to him the whole time.
I don't know how she rationalized herself, but she has failed. DWS and establishment dems are standing with loan sharks. They're out to destroy what she has built in the Senate, and she's silent. What does she think she'll achieve in the coming years? She's gonna be made into a persona non grata, if not an outcast in this bought electoral system. When she flip-flopped big time on Israel-Palestine issue, I became a little jittery about her ability to break away from party line, and well...it turns out she was no hero.

When it comes to the issues impacting black Americans, let's be honest. Obama hasn't really delivered. He's not really talking about BLM and the issue of corruption with police and judicial system. And he's not even beholden to the private prison industry. So, yeah. It's an utter fantasy to believe that she'll do anything to address those issues.
Jesse Jackson sold out. Howard Dean sold out. John Lewis sold out. Obama sold out (long time ago, actually. He's gotta finalize TPP so he can make big bucks the way the Clintons did by passing NAFTA and Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act).
It's a party of sell-outs. If Bernie doesn't make it, I'm going green. I'm done with this.

If they're so determined to shove another Clinton down our throat, then have fun with short-fingered orange clown and his brownshirts.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_revenge_of_the_lower_classes_and_the_rise_of_american_fascism_20160302

[RobertEarl]

118. Bravo!!

You are indeed one strong black man.

And I am sorry to note there are those replying to you as if to be telling you you are out of line speaking out for yourself and for the future.

It's almost as if they are saying you do not know your place.

You are a leader who deserves many followers.

[MrWendel]

132. Is there any other race...

that has been demanded to justify its vote?

[jonestonesusa]

151. Maybe you haven't noticed the Sanders is for white people meme

pushed along by many, many, DUers, sometimes expressed in criticism of "berniebros," and in many other forms. It's pretty hard to miss this accusation that Sanders is the white candidate. Many of the posts criticizing black Clinton voters have been rude and racist, but the term "berniebro" is stereotypical if not outright racist.

It would be nice if on a political board we could talk political issues, and justifying one's votes is very central to that conversation. We should all have this conversation with respect, but it's the internet. I just wish there were more focus on the issues, because that's what I find most helpful.

[liberal N proud]

139. South Carolina Blacks are Old Blacks

Is that how you want to play this?

[GummyBearz]

157. Good lord, you put my exact thoughts into words

Though I am white, I feel the exact same way about older white people (meaning my parents, uncles, their friends). As a member of Gen X I always felt like they were disappointed in us for the whole "sex, drugs, and rocknroll" image. It appears to be our turn to be disappointed in them for all the reasons you pointed out.

Do your part in Georgia friend, and I will do my part in California.

[monicaangela]

164. BRAVO!

Excellent comment johnlucas, I agree with just about every word you have said. I am one of those older people you are blaming for the success of Hillary Clinton in SC. I don't live in SC and would not have voted for Hillary if I did. I am for Bernie Sanders, and for you, the youth of this nation that will ultimately have to take the reins and lead this country out of the dump it has fallen into.

Keep up the good work, get out there and influence as many Gen-Xers and Millennials as you can to vote for Bernie, and don't give up on us older folk, I'm sure more are voting for Bernie than you think...and, if you work to explain just as you have here your sentiments to many of those who you feel are living in the past, you just might be able to bring some of them out of their comfort zone and get them to vote for the better candidate, Bernie Sanders. Keep up the good work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

174. John thank you for furthering illuminating the many light bulbs that went on

yesterday

http://reportingsandiego.com/2016/02/28/al-sharpton-in-san-diego-for-nan-chapter-launch/

Here, we covered event here in San Diego, and apart of the speech, powerful... there are young leaders and some among the elders are preparing to pass on the torch.

?w=700

By the way, this young man getting pinned as the local president of the National Action Network, his name is Shane Harris... and I can tell you this, because I have been covering him since oh November... he's already disrupting things.

[TeeYiYi]

181. A timely tweet...

TYY

[elleng]

184. Thanks for posting.

'It's not because of malice. It's just because of habit.
But the result is the same.
We go NOWHERE & STILL get the worst end of the stick in this society.'

[polly7]

185. Standing on the Wrong Side of History

Open letter to John Lewis

by Monica Moorehead / February 20th, 2016

Dear Brother John Lewis,

I am a Black woman, who, like you, was born in Alabama at the dawn of the modern day Civil Rights Movement. My parents supported the Montgomery Bus Boycott. I, like millions of others, suffered through the indignities of Jim Crow, including watching, as an adolescent, my mother being “escorted” out of a white-only public bathroom by the police.

So I understand firsthand and respect your bravery and your contribution to the Black freedom struggle.

I know that half a century ago, you were nearly beaten to death when state troopers and Klansmen attacked the march from Selma to Montgomery.

Back then, you faced the reality of racist violence and the possibility of your own death on a daily basis. Back then, you were in the vanguard of the Civil Rights revolution. Nobody can ever take that away from you.

With all due respect, however, what you did the other day during the announcement of the Black Congressional Caucus Political Action Committee’s support for the candidacy of Hillary Clinton was counterrevolutionary.

The problem isn’t that you didn’t see Bernie Sanders at the 1963 March on Washington or during the freedom rides. The problem is that you are not seeing the millions of young people, especially young Black people and other people of color, who are using the Sanders campaign to send a message to the capitalist political establishment.

They are using the Sanders campaign to say they are tired of waiting for justice. They are using the Sanders campaign to say they are sick and tired of young people of color being murdered for the crime of walking, talking, or driving while Black.

They are saying they are tired of the police war on Black America, and they are tired of mass incarceration.

They are saying they are not willing to support establishment politicians merely because some of us have known them.

They are saying they don’t want to be told to stay in their place, to be patient, to be realistic and support the status quo. They are saying they want more than the false promises of incremental change; they demand radical, revolutionary change and they want it NOW.

I still respect your contribution to our struggle for freedom. But this time, Brother Lewis, sadly, you are standing on the wrong side of history.

Respectfully,

Monica Moorehead
Workers World Party 2016, Presidential Candidate

Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/02/standing-on-the-wrong-side-of-history/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511295694

[jonestonesusa]

222. Good post for some perspective on this thread.

Reminding us that we can revere the living giants of the movement and still disagree with their support of Clinton.

[grasswire]

189. I support you, johnlucas.

I am white, and I am older, but I am fiercely aware of the urgency of NOW for you and your generation, and I fight every day to bring NOW to the forefront for YOU, just as John Lewis and all the heroes of your color did when they were young.

This urgency is not for me. I have had my work life and my family. The urgency is for YOU. Eloquent, passionate, and on the right side of history.

Solidarity. Solidarity.

[Betty Karlson]

194. Why Lewis chose to soil his reputation by lying about Sanders, I will never understand.

His authority was blown away by that untruth.

And for what? For a woman who, when asked about black lives, dismisses the questioner, and says: "now back to the issues that matter." Disgusting.

[disillusioned73]

203. k&r

[raouldukelives]

204. K&R The truth will set us free. Thanks for speaking it. nt

[randr]

205. My greatest hope is that the youth of our Nation

wake up to the fact that if they were to turn out to vote in any numbers above 60% they would take over.

[markj757]

206. To my fellow brothers and sisters....

I have found that regardless of our well reasoned and thoughtful responses, there is a large segment of Bernie supporters on this site who don't truly represent the values of the candidate himself. Bernie himself made the point that he did very poorly with older black voters, but he didn't say it with malice, or with the level of ignorance as this John Lucas post. I have come to accept, and you should as well, that many of the so called Bernie supporters on this site, embrace that John Lucas perspective because it fits neatly into their uninformed ignorant shallow view of the black community as whole. You can find any person of any race to say something ignorant that doesn't reflect the spirit or perspective of that community. If there is reasoned and intelligent debate to be had about the role of race in the democratic primary, you are very unlikely to find it in threads like this. So if you engage, I just advise you to be ready to accept the futility of trying to convince the vast majority of the Bernie supporters on these threads of anything substantive. They would much rather gravitate toward the likes of John Lucas, than the truth. Even though, you and I both know, his words lack credibility in our community, and only gives solace to those who want to believe it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

214. Look in the mirror, because this is a two way dynamic

Yes in this case, BOTH SIDES are doing it.

[Number23]

219. You ain't saying nothing we don't already know

But every single word of your post is the truth. Every single word.

[jonestonesusa]

223. I don't know. Reasonable people can disagree about ideas and how they are expressed.

It's an in-your-face OP, and I happen to think that you can learn from harsh statements, especially if you challenge what needs to be challenged, but still encourage another voice to come to the table. No one I know has perfect wisdom, so I lean towards engaging with all voices that have a core truth to speak, even if that truth is not perfectly expressed.

By comparison, your post calls out "so-called Bernie supporters" and "uninformed ignorant shallow views of the black community," painting everyone with a broad brush rather than talking about issues and areas of disagreement. I agree that there are problematic statements happening sometimes in the conversations, but you have to admit that there are also attempts to shut down legitimate opinions that are perceived as being against the "correct black viewpoint" - no discussion, no engagement, just callouts. What's the point in that?

In my opinion- the more voices at the table that hear each other, learn from each other, and challenge each other, the better. Especially when the Dem party is trying to figure out why hardly any younger people bother to vote in primaries, black youth included. A nice, polite conversation while we're getting our butts handed to us in elections does nobody any good.

[markj757]

224. Although I agree with many of your points, I just have to clarify....

Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:16 AM - Edit history (2)

in reference to the "so-called Bernie supporters" and the "uninformed ignorant shallow views of the black community" comments, I qualified those statements by only referring to many of those Bernie supporters on DU, which are obviously only a minuscule fraction of a fraction of his supporters. And I also wrote they don't reflect the values of the candidate, and I don't think they reflect the views of the vast majority of his supporters as I have pointed out in other post.

I also didn't mention anything about not engaging, I just gave a warning that if you do engage, its highly unlikely you will be able to convince them of anything substantive, which is an opinion obviously, but isn't that what this is all about. I also didn't mention anything about a nice polite conversation, because I agree, that's not important, I emphasized reasoned and intelligent debate, which does not have to be nice and polite, but it should be as substantive as possible.

For such a reasoned and thoughtful response, I just wish you would have captured more of the essence of my post which was a response to this John Lucas thread (somewhat of an ignorant post for someone coming from our community) to my fellow DUers from the black community. But I welcome the criticism.

[jonestonesusa]

225. Thanks for the response - I respect where you what you are saying.

It is definitely fair to ask for more self-awareness from a poster who is generalizing about a whole group (as in "old blacks&quot . I hope I wasn't too dismissive of what you said or took it wrong that you expressed concerns about the tone of the OP. I had just related to the OP and the poster because here on DU, there's a lot of criticism directed at pro-Sanders black voters like myself, callouts on the daily for supporting the "white fake revolutionary candidate." Meanwhile, to discuss the structurally racist aspects of the policies favored by both Clintons over the years is off the table during a lot of these discussions.

My hope is that the blanket dismissals of the Sanders campaign and its supporters can stop, especially if the hope is that the Democrats will actually expand their base, win the presidency, and stop the cycle of getting beat royally in state and local elections every season. I don't think we can afford the cynicism of waiting for the perfect candidate, and Sanders is better than Clinton IMO, others disagree of course. Hopefully the whole party will be willing to have the debates that are necessary to strengthen the pro-Dem coalition and issue positions

So - I wish you the best on Super Tuesday, and I'll do my best to respond more mindfully next time!

[nc4bo]

232. JohnLucas spoke his truth and should be respected for it just

as an opposing black voice can speak their version of truth and be respected for it.

How dare you or anyone here say his truth is false.

I happen to agree 100% with JL's post (minus that photo as I haven't seen it confirmed).

[Farmbrook]

208. As a black female person - with old white men heading this country forever.....

with very little to show for it especially to a black person, I cannot wait to vote for the most experienced woman locally, nationally, and internationally, intelligent, vetted and tested. I respect Bernie Sanders and I know at the end of the day he will support the Democratic nominee because he is just that type of person. And no doubt when that time comes his rabid supporters will go bonkers. I thank him for his work in the civil rights movement and that is what gives me the confidence that he will do what it takes to propel the first experienced and competent female nominee because he has stood up when there were no cameras and for the voiceless. He has praised Mrs. Clinton several times and vice-verse. This time for me the female candidate is my choice and I know I am smart enough to make that decision.

[avaistheone1]

209. K&R

[AlbertCat]

212. Well.....

..... at least we know FOR SURE, without any controversy...

Hillary wasn't there.

[saidsimplesimon]

215. k&r, thank you, johnlucas

I'm an old woman. This is my response to the clinton campaign's claim that voting for a woman is more important than voting my values.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Blue_Tires]

217. You're trying too hard...

But somehow you got 219 recs, so mission accomplished, I guess...

[ZX86]

221. Keep voting the way you've been voting

Keep getting what you've been getting. It's as simple as that.

[ghostsinthemachine]

226. Who are the young leaders of the Black community?

Who are the younger leaders of today for any cause? I'm not seeing them, all I see is the old tired people from the 60's. That goes for everything.