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Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:25 PM

Hillary was one of the more liberal Senators, based on her actual votes

There are a number of issues with Hillary Clinton's presidential candidacy that should give liberal voters pause, such as her vote authorizing Bush and Cheney to wage war in Iraq; her relationship with Wall Street and corporate interests; her proposals for how to proceed against the Islamic State and how to handle Syria; and her shifting positions on trade agreements (NAFTA, TPP, etc), the Keystone XL pipeline, and gay marriage.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that during her time in the Senate, the votes she cast placed her among the progressive members of that body.

Bernie Sanders was without question the most progressive member of the Senate, based on votes cast during the 107th-110th Congresses.

But Hillary came in as the 11th most progressive, to the left of Leahy, Mikulski, Durbin, Biden, and Reid.
Obama came in at 23rd most progressive, so clearly to Hillary's right.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate#

(the rankings are based on the algorithm developed by political scientists Keith T. Poole and Howard Rosenthal)

I think one of the discussions we could have is about how the overall political climate in the country has shifted so far to the right in the past few decades that what passes for liberal these days might not be considered all that liberal in other contexts.

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Reply Hillary was one of the more liberal Senators, based on her actual votes (Original post)
TheDormouse Feb 2016 OP
jeff47 Feb 2016 #1
TheDormouse Feb 2016 #4
jeff47 Feb 2016 #6
DCBob Feb 2016 #2
TheDormouse Feb 2016 #3
redstateblues Feb 2016 #5
DCBob Feb 2016 #8
AtomicKitten Feb 2016 #7
Lucinda Feb 2016 #11
99th_Monkey Feb 2016 #9
oasis Feb 2016 #10
thesquanderer Feb 2016 #12

Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:27 PM

1. "Actual votes" is a pool of rather conservative bills.

It's not a very effective measure of someone's political leanings.

It's a little like, "You both dislike Scalia? Then you're both equally liberal!". Even when one wants single-payer and one wants nothing but tax cuts.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:47 PM

4. well, yes this kind of ranking depends on the algorithm; do you

have a better selection of bills (and interpretations of where the votes on those bills fall in the liberal vs conservative spectrum) to consider?

If so, please share. (<---- not meant sarcastically)

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Response to TheDormouse (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:03 PM

6. When you limit yourself to votes in Congress, it can't be done.

Because votes in Congress inherently limits you to moderate-at-best bills. When you're trying to measure degrees of liberalism, moderate-to-conservative bills does not provide a meaningful metric.

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:36 PM

2. Actually if you go to the voteview site she is listed as 13th not 11th.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:45 PM

3. thanks for the correction

I was just going by the Daily Kos article (and another article that cited the Daily Kos article)

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Response to DCBob (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 10:51 PM

5. Not good enough for the Purity Party

but more in step with the electorate in the US

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:25 PM

8. Good enough for me

I would prefer a more progressive candidate but Hillary is our best option to win.

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Sun Feb 28, 2016, 11:05 PM

7. Her yea votes for the IWR and the Patriot Act are repugnant and not the least little bit liberal.

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:09 AM

11. I disagree with your assessment about the IWR


2000 of her constituents had been murdered, and still, she was thoughtful, not hawkish, strongly said she was only voting for letting the inspectors back in, and for the IWR to be used for leverage. And the administration lied to her about both of those things.
Once she realized what they were doing she was a strong critic.

Yes, she was wrong to trust Junior. There really isn't any excuse for it, but she wasn't voting for military action.

I totally agree with you about the Patriot Act though.

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:53 AM

9. OK, let's talk about it ..

 

about how .. "the overall political climate in the country has shifted so far to the right in the past few decades that what passes for liberal these days might not be considered all that liberal in other contexts."


Democratic Leadership Council
The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was a non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation] founded in 1985 that, upon its formation, argued the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. ]The DLC hailed President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of Third Way politicians and as a DLC success story.

The DLC's affiliated think tank is the Progressive Policy Institute. Democrats who adhere to the DLC's philosophy often call themselves New Democrats. This term is also used by other groups who have similar views on where the party should go in the future, like NDN and Third Way.

On February 7, 2011, Politico reported that the DLC would dissolve, and would do so as early as the following week.[4] On July 5 of that year, DLC founder Al From announced in a statement on the organization's website that the historical records of the DLC have been purchased by the Clinton Foundation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council


New Democrats - Origins
After the landslide electoral losses to Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, a group of prominent Democrats began to believe their party was out of touch and in need of a radical shift in economic policy and ideas of governance.[1][2] The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was founded in 1985 by Al From and a group of like-minded politicians and strategists. They advocated a political "Third Way" ...

The first-wave of New Democrats, from the 1980s to 1990s, were very similar to Southern and Western Blue Dog Democrats. Al From, the founder of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and its leader until 2009, had been a staffer for Willis Long, a Democratic representative from Louisiana. Among the presidents of the DLC were Al Gore, senator from Tennessee, and Bill Clinton, governor of Arkansas. The first-wave New Democrats sought the votes of white working-class Reagan Democrats.[9]

In the 1990s, the New Democrat movement shifted away from the South and West and moved to the Northeast. In the 1992 United States presidential election, Bill Clinton was elected president.[9]

The second-wave of New Democrats, from 1990s to president, came into existence after the 1994 election. After 1994, the Democrats were much more dominated by urban areas, minorities and white social liberals. The New Democrats shifted from the South to Wall Street.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats
[/div class="excerpt"]


The Third Way
In the United States, "Third Way" adherents embrace fiscal conservatism to a greater extent than traditional social liberals, and advocate some replacement of welfare with workfare, and sometimes have a stronger preference for market solutions to traditional problems (as in pollution markets), while rejecting pure laissez-faire economics and other libertarian positions. The Third Way style of governing was firmly adopted and partly redefined during the administration of President Bill Clinton. The term "Third Way" was introduced by political scientist Stephen Skowronek.[40][41][42] "Third Way" presidents 'undermine the opposition by borrowing policies from it in an effort to seize the middle and with it to achieve political dominance. Examples of this are: Nixon’s economic policies, which were a continuation of Johnson's "Great Society", and later Clinton’s welfare reform.

Clinton, Blair, Prodi, Gerhard Schröder and other leading Third Way adherents organized conferences to promote the Third Way philosophy in 1997 at Chequers in England. The Third Way think tank and the Democratic Leadership Council are adherents of Third Way politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:57 AM

10. Kick and Recommend

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Response to TheDormouse (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 02:12 AM

12. Flag burning? Patriot act? If she's 11th most progressive...

...that might not be an indication of how progressive she is, but how non-progressive the institution was while she was there.

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