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Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:47 PM

"Stockholm Syndrome" talking points refuse to die(!)

Why do so many black Americans support Hillary Clinton? Stockholm Syndrome. They are faithful battered wives. They are yoked to Hillary by co-dependency: “I’ve stuck by you and suffered to do so for so long that you owe me, and I have faith that you will reward me later if I help you reach your goal now.”

In their minds they have no such guarantee from Bernie Sanders (and of course from Hillary such a guarantee is an illusion). It is clear that Bernie Sanders has been successful without being dependent on them up to now. So (again, in their minds) he owes them nothing, and thus cannot be counted on to reward them after the election for their support during it.

What this sad diminished thinking shows is a lack of confident independence, an inability to reason that the best estimator of Bernie Sanders’ future trustworthiness is the consistency of his commitment to their fundamental cause for over half a century.

One has to acknowledge the detestable brilliance of the Wall Street and 1%-ist strategy of political purchase: own Hillary and Obama who in turn have enchained so many proletarian minds to their identity-politics personality cults: Pied Pipers leading their trusting conga lines into the Wall Street abattoir.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/02/29/the-cult-of-hillary-the-ultimate-junk-bond/


Wow...Just wow...

I'm officially done with CounterPunch if this is what passes for nuanced political commentary.

59 replies, 3623 views

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Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Stockholm Syndrome" talking points refuse to die(!) (Original post)
Blue_Tires Feb 2016 OP
BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #1
grossproffit Feb 2016 #4
grossproffit Feb 2016 #2
ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #3
thereismore Feb 2016 #5
liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #12
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #28
Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #6
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #31
Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #44
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #45
MrWendel Feb 2016 #7
sheshe2 Feb 2016 #8
The Polack MSgt Feb 2016 #9
msanthrope Feb 2016 #10
KingFlorez Feb 2016 #11
Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #17
BlueMTexpat Feb 2016 #24
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #32
passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #38
rbrnmw Feb 2016 #46
JI7 Feb 2016 #13
mcar Feb 2016 #14
SunSeeker Feb 2016 #15
ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #16
iandhr Feb 2016 #18
Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #19
ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #20
iandhr Feb 2016 #21
Chitown Kev Feb 2016 #36
rbrnmw Feb 2016 #47
pdsimdars Feb 2016 #22
iandhr Feb 2016 #23
pdsimdars Mar 2016 #58
rbrnmw Feb 2016 #48
Trust Buster Feb 2016 #25
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #34
jalan48 Feb 2016 #26
1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #37
jalan48 Feb 2016 #41
brush Feb 2016 #53
Trajan Feb 2016 #52
lark Feb 2016 #27
MaggieD Feb 2016 #29
Spazito Feb 2016 #30
steve2470 Feb 2016 #33
NCTraveler Feb 2016 #35
SoapBox Feb 2016 #39
bettyellen Feb 2016 #40
WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2016 #42
ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #43
hack89 Feb 2016 #50
Arazi Feb 2016 #51
hack89 Mar 2016 #57
WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2016 #59
Beacool Feb 2016 #55
stevenleser Feb 2016 #49
Beacool Feb 2016 #54
MellowDem Feb 2016 #56

Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:49 PM

1. I used to like it - in about 2003

and 2004 especially. Lately, it has gone practically "woo-woo," IMO.

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Response to BlueMTexpat (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:50 PM

4. Me too. They've been off the rails for quite some time.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:50 PM

2. Yep. More divisive bullshit.

I stopped reading that site some time ago. Won't even give them a hit by clicking on it.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:50 PM

3. That is just fucked up

Masks off, apparently.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:53 PM

5. It's not Stockholm Syndrome, it is risk aversion. In other words, fear of change.

Will this be alerted? Probably. Never you mind.

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Response to thereismore (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:15 PM

12. I have heard many people say they are voting for Hillary simply to keep a Republican

out of the White House. I would definitely say that is a risk aversion vote. I do not vote based on fear. I vote based on which candidate will actually fight for my family. That candidate is Bernie.

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Response to thereismore (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:36 PM

28. Not fear of change ... It's more a recognition that the chance of loss are greater ...

 

than the likelihood the change being offer will be successful ... AND at a much higher cost.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:54 PM

6. What a bunch of beard-stroking garbage.

If your first principle as an activist is contempt for your target constituency, you've already lost your "revolution."

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:39 PM

31. But it is not showing contempt for the target constituency ...

 

it is hitting that group ... you know, the one's that have contempt for the members of the tradition Democratic coalitions.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:26 PM

44. I meant the article, not Blue's comments on it.

Sorry!

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:31 PM

45. Oh. I know. I'm suggesting ... No, saying that the writer of that piece is ...

 

in fact, hitting his target demographic ... Bernie fans.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:58 PM

7. I wonder...

how many of them write on DU. It's not the first time I've heard this. The first time was on DU.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:06 PM

8. I refuse to click on that link.

n/t

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:09 PM

9. It's just

5 or 6 more paragraphs of the same rant.

The 4 graphs Blue Tires pulled are representative.

I thought it was satire at first, but sadly it is not

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:12 PM

10. Not the Onion,sadly. nt

 

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:14 PM

11. What is dying is the Sanders campaign and his supporters dreams of a win

I am very hopeful that tomorrow's results are a sharp upper cut that will give Clinton a great delegate edge. That would be the perfect revenge for this Stockholm Syndrome crap.

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Response to KingFlorez (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:02 PM

17. The problem with that is that I support Sanders and I made very vigorous objections to that

 

Stockholm OP on DU, which targeted African Americans and LGBT specifically and which was the work of one single poster. Not only did I write extensive criticisms of that racist, bigoted piece of shit post and the man who crafted it so did several other Sanders supporters. That's just a fact, it's part of the DU record. I was furious and still think that person is a ratfucker.
But when you smear me, who was attacked by that post and who very strenuously objected to it, using the very OP that attacked me you are behaving exactly and precisely like the man who crafted the Stockholm Syndrome fury on DU. It is the same fucking thing. There is no difference.

There was a poster here who was a 'Hillary supporter' who spent a year bashing at LGBT and at Bernie Sanders who was eventually PPR'd for posting incredibly antisemitic material after the shootings in Paris. So took pot shots at Sanders, then banned for being anti Jewish. While spouting praises for Hillary. Now, personally my choice is not to decide that such a raving bigot represents anyone but themselves, not all Hillary supporters. You are making another choice, and I don't care for it. I think it is as I said, much the same creature that the Stockholm post was in the first place. It's generalize and label, divide and make other. Not being an idiot, I do not fall for that.

But I could pretend that I do, and paint you all with banned hate mongers and a year's worth of quotes that will make you want to puke. I could do a bang up job of it too. Just something to think about. Are you ready to own every thing ever said by some poster claiming to be 'for Hillary'? That's how you are treating me, and it is very tempting to do that same sort of Brock job to those around here who are doing this. Many of them have years of very dubious postings about LGBT and others, they are hypocrites on parade and they could be so easily OP'd into Shame City.

But I figure some jerk posting on the internet is responsible for themselves, I do not take a word they say at face value so if they say 'Hillary' or 'Bernie' I still don't know what their actual objective is. 'I support Hillary and the gays lost the last election for us' does not really strike me as what a real Hillary supporter would say.

Stockholm OP guy, he knows I support Bernie, he knows I'm gay. He also has adversarial relationships with others on DU. Much of that was very personal.

I'm tired of Hillary folks blaming all Bernie supporters for that shit. It is wrong, it is nasty and it is simply not supported by the facts.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:16 PM

24. Good for you for speaking out against!

The overwhelming majority of HRC supporters know lots of Bernie's supporters in person outside DU, so we KNOW that not all Bernie supporters believe this crap or even spout it.

Those Bernie supporters I know personally believe much as I do, that we have two great candidates and, while we each may prefer one over the other now, we have LOTS more in common than we don't.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:45 PM

32. One more, again ...

 

I'm tired of Hillary folks blaming all Bernie supporters for that shit. It is wrong, it is nasty and it is simply not supported by the facts.


No one is blaming all Bernie supporters for that shit ... the subset that is being blamed is clearly identified.

And, if it'll help ... Since you opposed the Stockholm OP, then, rest assured ... no one is blaming you ... we are talking about the 50+ other "liberals" that recc'ed and repeat it.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:52 PM

38. well said, thank you

I'm so tired of this too. But I will be the first to admit, there are Bernie supporters who do the same thing to Hillary supporters. They will jump on anything ugly they find and accuse all Hillary supporters of that behavior.

I think it needs to be called out no matter which side does it.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:36 PM

46. thank for speaking out against hate

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:20 PM

13. counterpunch has always been a joke. it is a favorite of a poster that defends north korea

And has been banned many times here.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:21 PM

14. ..

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:23 PM

15. Yup, in line with the outrageous "Master/slave" talking point. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:28 PM

16. Yup

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:36 PM

18. Unfortunately rhetoric is to be expected.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:38 PM

19. Expected. Not tolerated!

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:40 PM

20. Exactly.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:42 PM

21. I agree with you 100%

I was merely saying that it's disappointing that this is what is in our discourse these days.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:51 PM

36. and cheap...

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Response to iandhr (Reply #18)


Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:44 PM

22. What

 

I don't get it, why did you post that whole thing just to denounce it in the last line.
I kind of agree with it. . . sorry.
It puzzles me too. Maybe someone can explain to me how someone can fight for your cause for you and your family and another person can support someone who is fighting against you and your family.
And when push comes to shove, you abandon the guy who fought for your cause and go for the one who was against you.
Bernie joined the cause of Civil rights and has been a steady advocate for over 50 years. Hillary campaigned for a guy who wanted to repeal the Civil Rights law and wanted to re-segregate the south.
How do you vote for Hillary? Makes no sense to a rational mind.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:59 PM

23. I think the point that rhetoric like this does tremendous damage to Bernie.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 09:50 AM

58. I think the opposite

 

When the truth is known it does damage to Hillary, so her supporters want to make is seem like a bad thing to put the record out there. She lobbied for 3 strikes you're out, and for tougher on crime, etc.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:43 PM

48. ....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:28 PM

25. That OP is dehumanizing and discounting a whole culture of people.

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:48 PM

34. But some, in this very thread ...

 

"kind of agree with it".

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:31 PM

26. Hillary is the better known brand, like Tide detergent.

Change can be scary and it's easier just to stay with Tide sometimes.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:51 PM

37. Especially, if it gets you clothes clean ...

 

But feel free to spend your last dollar on the Miracle Cleaner from the infomercial. It might work!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:57 PM

41. I was upset when I couldn't get Tide with Bleach anymore-it became 'Bleach Alternative'.

I still stayed with Tide though. Over time brands change and then a new one becomes the norm, like political beliefs. Bernie may be the off brand now but what he's talking about is the future of the Democratic Party. He just makes more sense when he talks about millionaires, billionaires, and our corrupt political system.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:01 PM

53. Heehee!

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:16 PM

52. For the record ...

 

I haven't bought that overpriced product in decades ...

A fitting analogy, I think ...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:36 PM

27. How demeaning and disgraceful.

No wonder Dems don't win often enough, we cannabilize our own. How dare he talk about AA women like that, I want to slap him hard in the face and I have never done that in my life.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:39 PM

29. If the first racial insults didn't work....

 

..... Make more of them.

That seems to be the strategy. SMH.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:39 PM

30. If the author of that crap thinks this helps favored candidate ...

they are badly mistaken. Appalling tripe.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:45 PM

33. horrible article, I hope the author regrets it and learns nt

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:51 PM

35. It's a flat out attack. Nt

 

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:55 PM

39. I have the same question...WHY does the African American Community

think that the Clintons are so great...when they have done absolutely nothing for the community but offer up lip service.

It's a fake image.

It's a fraud image.

And it's a phony image.

They have done nothing.

...clipping from the article;


One has to acknowledge the detestable brilliance of the Wall Street and 1%-ist strategy of political purchase: own Hillary and Obama who in turn have enchained so many proletarian minds to their identity-politics personality cults: Pied Pipers leading their trusting conga lines into the Wall Street abattoir.

If the Democratic Party apparatchiks (the paid minions of the 1%-ist oligarchs) can beat back the hostile-takeover Sanders insurgency of popular and populist democracy, and put Hillary Clinton forward as the party’s champion in the general electoral joust, then President Trump will be inaugurated in January 2017. The Democratic Party apparatchiks are first and foremost fighting to preserve their patronage positions (to hell with the country). A President Trump is no threat to their ambitions, but a nominee Sanders — whether subsequently president or not — would mean that a revolution had occurred in the Democratic Party, and the Obama-Clinton apparatchik gravy-train derailed.

I find it depressing to see so many “regular people” chaining themselves so emotionally and naively to the Hillary personality cult, and feeling so uplifted by this delusion. Perhaps the single biggest weakness of Bernie Sanders campaign is that it relies on there being a sufficient majority of healthy independent minds capable of critical thinking. I sure hope there are.

The Trump and Sanders campaigns are two wings of a general popular revulsion to the corporate-owned apparatchik management of the government. Given a choice between keeping the government in the hands of the “old guard” (Hillary or the Republican second-stringers) or handing it over to “the rebels” (Sanders or Trump), the country’s 99% will choose a rebel. The “future” will not be denied, the big question is: what kind of future?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:56 PM

40. today it's "Stay Ignorant, My Friend". 2016- the year "dank meme bros" fucked their candidate.

 

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 08:01 PM

42. Pardon me for being blunt, but why don't more Black Voters

know about Bernie's political activist history, hell, he cut his teeth on civil rights struggles, getting arrested for his viewpoints and positions in his first year of college, over half a century of fighting for peace and justice for all the people.

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 08:03 PM

43. You are making a huge assumption

And proving the point.

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:03 PM

50. Have you considered that they do know but don't give it the same importance you do?

that was a long time ago. He has spend the past 50 years never having to deal with black voters on a daily basis. He is a good man but relationships take time and effort. In Bernie's case it was too little too late.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:11 PM

51. Actually they apparently don't know if SC black voters are any indication

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-sanders-black-voters-20160226-story.html


His hands caked in grime from his repair job, Walter Brown coughed out a laugh when asked for his thoughts about Bernie Sanders, whose insurgent presidential campaign has electrified liberals around the country.

“Who is Bernie Sanders?” he said while sitting on a bench during an afternoon break. Brown, 59, is already leaning toward Hillary Clinton and doesn’t plan to start researching other options.

“I don’t have time,” he said, gesturing toward the downtown building where he’s been working. “I’m here all day.”

Sanders’ effort to broaden his appeal beyond white progressives and young people has run into a roadblock here in the form of black working-class voters, who in interviews here this week repeatedly voiced their longtime loyalty to Clinton. Several echoed Brown’s point that they don’t have time to explore an alternative nor interest in learning about Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont who was practically unknown in South Carolina before launching his presidential bid.

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Response to Arazi (Reply #51)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:36 AM

57. "too little, too late"

proves my point. Hillary has spend decades forging a relationship with the black community. Bernie spend months.

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Response to Arazi (Reply #51)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 02:30 PM

59. I would hope that the working class of all races would

find time to examine the issues and vote for their own self interests.
Having no interest in the issues or no desire to learn about them is not a very positive quality to have.

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:37 PM

55. Why would they know the past history of a senator of little note?

Outside of the political world, most people had no knowledge of him until he started campaigning. On the other hand, people know the Clintons and obviously support them. If they didn't, they would have voted for Sanders.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:55 PM

49. Counterpunch has been like this for a long time

 

All their articles are reductive "No one is progressive enough except Sanders and Kucinich everyone else is evil" nonsense.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:33 PM

54. The Democratic Party "apparatchiks"?

I haven't heard that word since the Soviet Union collapsed. Dude needs to go back to his former job as a physicist and leave political analysis to others.

Treating with condescension and insults one of the most faithful Democratic demographics is sure as heck not going to win Sanders any votes within that community.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:46 PM

56. A lot of people don't get...

that the US is very conservative and blacks are among the most conservative demographic in the Democratic Party, so it's no surprise they would want Clinton over Sanders, it's no Stockholm Syndrome.

Sanders mainly appeals to liberals, and they're a minority in the Democraric Party. And even then, many liberals don't think he's electable, so will vote for Clinton because they're scared of Republicans.

America's ideology is far too conservative for a candidate like Sanders to win yet, even in the Democratic Party. Some people expect minorities to be the most ideologically liberal, but that's not true at all, and just shows they see politics in a very simplified way, much less demographics.

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