Who'd be more harmful in the White House - a buffoonish loose cannon, or

[Ron Green]

a corporate operative disguised as a progressive?

Second question: Who would the Banksters prefer?

[bbgrunt]

1. good question

[pkdu]

2. Please - when did you stop beating your wife. n/t

[oh08dem]

3. That's a very hard question to be honest...

It's bad, but I think the GOP controlled House and possibly Senate would get more of what they want with Clinton as president...

And then they could blame the Democrats come election season again.

[RobertEarl]

4. Remember the last Clinton in the WH?

Republicans want more. Bet on it.

They and Trump will get along fine.

[Live and Learn]

12. Bill Clinton got more Republican policies passed than any Republican in recent history. nt

[Major Hogwash]

46. And by that measure, he was a success.

Or from a liberal point of view, a categorical catastrophe.

[CrispyQ]

80. Or as Michael Moore said, "Bill Clinton was one of the best Republican Presidents we've ever had."

Democrats, DOA
The People's Prayer

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Michael_Moore/Democrats_DOA_SWM.html

excerpted from the book
Stupid White Men
and other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation

by Michael Moore
ReganBooks, 2001

snip...

He has signed a bill providing for federal funds to be distributed to "faith-based" charitable organizations.

He has expanded the number of federal crimes for which the death penalty can be given to a total of sixty.

He has signed a bill outlawing gay marriages and has taken out ads on Christian radio stations touting his opposition to any form of legal same-sex couplings.

In a short span of time, he has been able to kick ten million people off welfare-that's ten million out of fourteen million total recipients.

Yes, you'd have to agree, considering all of his above accomplishments, that Bill Clinton was one of the best Republican Presidents we've ever had.

It's worth a click to read the entire list of Bill's right wing accomplishments.

[Art_from_Ark]

14. I agree

It's easier to get Democratic support for shitty legislation when a Democratic President is pushing it.

Just look at TPA as one recent example

[Kittycat]

36. And in the end...

They'd probably get more than just an impeachment.

[Arazi]

5. What's crazy is the buffoon actually is one of the banksters

telling the truth about his fellowl Corporate banksters

[Live and Learn]

11. Actually, Trump dislikes bankers since they didn't want to lend to him following his bankruptcies.

And i am sure the feeling is mutual.

[Arazi]

13. Trump is a bankster, make no mistake. He's just his own bankster

playing by his own rules

which is why so many fall for his schtick

[merrily]

6. I am not worrying which of those two might be the lesser of two evils.

[JonLeibowitz]

8. Me either. It will make no difference in how I vote. n/t

[merrily]

10. *How* I vote makes no difference. (I live in Boston.)

[TIME TO PANIC]

7. Tough question.

Both seem potentially fascist.

[Live and Learn]

9. I am pretty sure the bankers want Hillary. nt

[GummyBearz]

73. They do

As shown by their donations. My big banker father in law, who is a life long democrat and has always 'seemed' to the left of me, is literally scared of bernie. He keeps trying to convince me and the wifey to go with hillary.

[winter is coming]

15. None of the above. n/t

[hedda_foil]

16. May I reframe? The question is: Did the liberals sit out the election of Hitler's Nazi party?

I am very much afraid that Trump is fully capable of torching the Capitol building, rejecting Congressional oversight and refusing to obey the Court. He shows every sign of being willing to rule by fiat and to declare those who disagree with him non-persons or worse. This man cannot be allowed to become president. He outstrips the scale of lesser and greater evils.

I despise both Clintons and hate the thought of their return to power,but Trump, to me isn't just another nasty conservative. He is in an altogether different category that might well be termed pure evil.

So if Hillary becomes the nominee against Trump, I will hold my nose and vote for her.

[Ron Green]

17. Perhaps he'd be the tipping point for people to rise up; really start the revolution.

The Democratic Party doesn't seem to be letting it happen.

[hedda_foil]

19. That's unlikely and in any case, I'm not willing to risk it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. Are you campaigning for Trump here on a "Heighten the Contradictions" argument?

I don't understand your point. Are you saying if it was Clinton v. Trump people should vote for Trump because that might bring about "the revolution?"

That's a really bizarre argument, if so.

[Ron Green]

93. I'm not saying what people should do. The guy I prefer is being shut out by

what I thought was my party. It now appears it WILL BE Clinton vs Trump (unless the corporate establishment can stop Trump) and I'm just exploring what will be the greater harm after next January.

[alcibiades_mystery]

95. Is the result of this exploration that Trump will be preferable to the Democratic nominee?

...should that Democratic nominee be Hillary Clinton?

That would be an interesting that I'd like to hear more about from you, if so. I see you don't want to actually state a claim here. Given that active campaigning for the Republican candidate could probably land you in hot water relative to Terms of Service of this site, I can see why you'd want to be coy if that was the result of your, ahem, exploration - even before the primaries are settled, I'd guess. Oh well, then. Two cheers for inquiry.

[Ron Green]

98. Thanks for your civility. My thought is that the "movement"

(or the direction of the country or whatever we may call it) is more important than any one candidate, but is symbolized by that one person, and called into action, whether or not that action is embraced and effected by the people.

In this way Trump represents a xenophobic and fearful movement, and Clinton no movement but a continuation of the status quo. Sanders' call to action seems to be what we need, in my opinion, but he's been shut out by our party, the media, and other big interests.

So the question, for me, is Would Trump's election precipitate such a backlash that real change would accelerate at every level, or would the US simply slide into the bigoted dystopia that's been just beneath the surface for decades? We know that Clinton's election would rock no boats, despite what she may promise, and may indeed bring the old "war is good for the economy" nostrum back to the fore.

Not trying to be coy here, but if they're going to shut out my guy I want to talk about the future with people who care.

[oh08dem]

18. I'll probably do the same since I'm in a high leverage state (Ohio)

Doesn't mean I'll enjoy it... A far cry from 8 years ago.

[Duppers]

39. +1000

Thank you.

[Katashi_itto]

64. Sorry I am not even moved for that.

Maybe it would finally be a wake up call. Under Clinton we would simply have a corporate operative quietly putting the US up for a fire sale.

[jmowreader]

20. The banksters would prefer Bernie on the ballot, because he'll be easy to beat

[flamingdem]

21. True dat, and there are those who wear Bernie clothing as if wolves

in sheepish clothing, here, there and everywhere.

[Ron Green]

23. It appears unlikely that he'll be on the ballot; so you're saying they'd favor Trump over Clinton?

[jmowreader]

28. Yes they would, he's one of them

[Ron Green]

32. They seem to be twisting pretty hard to diminish his chances right now. Even to the point of tearing

apart the Republican party. I don't think the PTB want Trump. do you really believe they do?

[jmowreader]

37. Good question

Trump is in it for Donald Trump. It's not just his overinflated ego - the bastard wants his taxes gone. He wants as many of the regulations that "stifle his innovation" as possible gone. Anything he gets rid of will also help the banksters and oligarchs. In some ways I think they don't want him to be president - but at the same time, I don't think they'd mind seeing the capital gains tax eliminated.

Hillary, on the other hand, would NOT let those guys run roughshod over the taxpayers. I know the Sanders contingent thinks Hillary is for sale for the low, low price of $700,000...but the bankers pumped more money into the Obama campaign than they did any other candidate, and Obama signed Dodd-Frank.

[HillareeeHillaraah]

66. ^^^^EXACTLY^^^^^ N/t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

97. "Hillary, on the other hand, would NOT let those guys run roughshod over the taxpayers"

On what do you base this assertion?

[Adrahil]

53. Because they know he's gonna get shellacked in the generals.

They know that Clinton is going yo go after him hard. She's not an amateur like Robio or Cruz.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

22. both have many scores to settle

hillary would be so distracted by impeachment that she will fail to cover all that needs to be addressed.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. I'm just trying to say "buffoonish loose cannon" 10 times fast.

[In_The_Wind]

25. That's easy ...

tRump tRump tRump tRump tRump tRump tRump tRump tRump tRump

[Warren DeMontague]

26. "I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED!"

That one still cracks me up. Classic.

[In_The_Wind]

30. hehehe

I dodged a bullet (fer sur) when I stood him up in '72. Obviously, the poor misguided man never got over it. He is beyond help.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Oh my, some day I would like to hear that story.

It's like Bill Bennett going on a date with Janis Joplin, which apparently happened once.

[ucrdem]

27. You're serious aren't you.

p.s. all I can safely say is I called this one about a year ago.

[Ron Green]

29. Yes, I'm serious. What do you mean you "called this one?"

Whose interests are served by a Trump presidency? And by a Clinton one?

[bigtree]

49. this one's brand is irreparably tainted, I'm afraid.

...this post is the absolute end.

It'll be interesting to see just how many here place value in the KKK apologist. Still, this is a despicable and enlightening effort by the op.

[SheilaT]

33. Interesting question.

The real answer is that they would do very different kinds of damage, and a few years down the road the results would be very different. Which dystopia would you prefer?

[leveymg]

34. A determined Neocon who believes herself to be invulnerable and inevitable.

Yes, that one.

[Betty Karlson]

35. Very good questions. I think the bankers prefer the reliably corporate-friendly "progressive".

As for who would be more harmful: probably the buffoon, but only if the corporatist sinks our chances in the senate and house on her negative coattails.

[Cobalt Violet]

38. Looks like we end up with a dead planet and a looted treasury either way.

We are one more bad trade deal away from total destruction.

[Onlooker]

40. The bankers wouldn't mind Bernie ...

... they'd use Congress to block him, and besides social spending ultimately ends up as corporate profits anyway. Bankers do not oppose big government, so there's much of Bernie's program they would like.

[Promethean]

41. Third question:

Would you even bother to show up to vote in such an election?

Unless the republican party changes its platform to be the opposite of what it has been for a while now I will never vote for them. I will also never vote for a politician that has taken bribes again. I see two ways out of our broken system. Either we start electing politicians that overtly refuse to accept bribes or we just let the system explode itself and rebuild from there.

[Ron Green]

72. Your third question is a good one, and highlights what the PTB really want:

Low turnout, diminished participation.

[tularetom]

42. Banksters prefer the candidate they have already bought off

Especially this one, because they can be goddamn certain she's going to stay bought.

After what they invested in her and the buffoon she's married to, no way she'll go off the res.

Trump? He's crazy as a shithouse rat, no telling what he might do. They don't trust him as far as they can throw him.

Nope, that little gal is the banksters choice.

[eridani]

43. I'll take "buffoonish loose cannon" for $20, Alex

That would be an unmitigated disaster. At least, in the event of an economic meltdown, Clinton at least has a chance of finding an inner FDR (or better yet, Eleanor).

[auntpurl]

45. This is quite a surprising OP.

Surely you are not advocating anyone voting for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton? Both our candidates are miles above the clown car full of lunatics on the other side. I know the Bernie supporters are very passionate, but asserting Hillary and Trump are the same seems ridiculous.

I am looking forward to having lots of good Democrats vote today (Super Tuesday). The Democratic electoral process will decide our candidate. And when the primaries are over, judging by history, I think the tone of DU will really improve.

Peace.

[RiverLover]

48. The tone will improve...Trump will be talking about bringing back American Manufacturing

& we will be -defending- her trade positions, like we do massive drone killings of innocent civilians & unauthorized war & healthcare that can still bankrupt us & we can't afford? We will be defending all of her lies.

He isn't using SuperPAC money. He's going to say he isn't corrupted by anyone & she is & we will have to defend that?

I won't do that.

On many issues, Trump will be running to the left of Hillary. Its insane how our party has lost its moral compass.

We need Democrats to BE Democrats & she isn't one. Our party is toast if she is the nom & I will leave it. Because it isn't real.

[auntpurl]

50. We will have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for your reply.

Peace.

[Historic NY]

71. The same asshole has his stuff manufactured overseas........

Trump talks out of his ass, I suppose its a virus some contract.

[Svafa]

75. Excellent points.

[yourpaljoey]

78. That stings

I wish it were not so true

[bigtree]

47. in advocating Trump over Clinton you have zero credibility here

[yourpaljoey]

81. Clearly that is NOT what he is doing

[greymouse]

51. Hillary

Trump is occasionally right, like one of those stopped clocks that's right twice a day. I don't think he's smart enough to do as much damage as Hillary and her Republican friends.

I don't intend to vote for Trump, of course. I'll vote for Bernie no matter what,

[Nye Bevan]

52. It'll be interesting to see Bernie Sanders' opinion regarding this question,

Anyone who respects him will presumably vote for whichever candidate he endorses.

[EdwardBernays]

54. Would you vote for someone you thought was dishonest and/or corrupt to stop Donald Trump?

The answer seems to a resounding yes from the Clintonites.

[TheFarseer]

55. The one that will approve TPP

[vdogg]

56. Never thought I'd see the day

That a Democrat on DU would be advocating for what essentially would be a fascist dictator of the United States. This man advocates for the banning and registering of all Muslims and the round up and deportation of all Mexicans and you put him on par with Hillary because of some fucking banks? Of course she has some problems but Jesus this is crazy. It is this type of infantile BS that assures I can never vote for Bernie in the primary (but I would in the general cause you know what? I'm not fucking crazy and my country is more important to me than that). DU has truly jumped the shark.

[artyteacher]

57. Yeah this ^ eom

[sharp_stick]

59. Yes it has jumped the shark

I can't wait for the end of this primary.

[complain jane]

91. Me either.

The hostility and divisiveness feels like I'm on a Republican forum.

[SCantiGOP]

108. I can't decide

which OP disgusted me the most today, but this one is a real contender.

[great white snark]

60. They also know anti-Hillary moderators routinely let OP's like this stand.

It's become a hate safe haven.

[KitSileya]

63. +1

You are absolutely right. Some Bernie supporters have gone completely unhinged if they think there is no difference between Hillary and Trump.

And I would have thought that such assertions would be a bannable offense, especially when the purpose is to get people not to vote for Clinton. But as you say, DU has jumped the shark indeed.

[Starry Messenger]

68. +1

[Ron Green]

74. I'm not "advocating" for this clown. If you actually read the OP,

you know I'm asking a very real question about the LIKELY choice we'll make for President, given the polling.

Every President has done damage. Even FDR had his internment camps and his court-packing scandal. My question asks about a very real scenario; don't make stuff up, please.

[vdogg]

76. Who would you prefer, Hillary or Trump?

[Ron Green]

90. I would prefer Hillary. I don't know if I'll vote for her.

[kjones]

85. Then maybe you should put a discaimer in...

"I am not advocating for Trump. People who actually care about
the future of America would do anything to prevent a lunatic
like him from taking the White House, voting for Clinton
included. So let's set aside our differences and keep the
first presidential reality TV show from becoming reality.
Or, barring that, let's at least stop pretending like Trump
and Clinton are at all similar."

[Ron Green]

88. That's your statement. I'm still sorting out my thoughts about this.

[complain jane]

89. You sound like you're advocating him in your OP.

If minimizing Trump's numerous and dangerous flaws as buffoonery and framing him as a preferable option to Hillary isn't advocating for him, what is?

[Ron Green]

92. I didn't frame him as "a preferable option."

If Democrats can't muster support for a "change" candidate and Republicans can, what does that mean? I'm trying to see the bigger issues at work here.

Is Fox News more dangerous than PBS? Both are delivering false information paid for by corporate players, but one of them is open about it and the other is in disguise.

[complain jane]

86. Agreed. Advocating for a fascist Republican on DU.

I thought this was Democratic Underground. My bad.

[complain jane]

87. +1

[CoffeeCat]

58. It's like trying to choose between syphillis and gonorrhea!

Seriously. I don't want either.

[yourpaljoey]

82. Ok... I am gonna with the... a... mmm... sounds like... maybe... I got nuthin' :)

[Progressive dog]

61. Your OP sounds just like a content free, name calling speech

from Trump himself. Thanks for adding to the discussions.

[Ron Green]

99. There's plenty of discussion in this thread. If YOU don't want

to add to it, you don't have to play.

[Progressive dog]

111. I wrote about the OP not the thread

The OP is fact free.

[Ron Green]

112. Only 2 facts given, or needed:

Trump is a loose cannon, and Clinton is a phony progressive. Otherwise, it asks an opinion about outcome. What's yours?

[Progressive dog]

113. You apparently don't know what a fact is nt

[Nonhlanhla]

65. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground

This post belongs on Free Republic. We don't support FASCISTS here.

[Ron Green]

104. I sure don't support any fascist.

It's interesting that the DEMOCRATIC process is working better for a fascist on the Republican side than it is for a "socialist" on the Democratic side. Where does that UNDERGROUND part come in?

[Il_Coniglietto]

67. As a young Latina...

You're asking me to choose between a vile, bitter man who hates me and would deport me if he could simply by virtue of where my parents were born? And a moderate Democratic woman who calls out white privilege and systemic racism and isn't generally batshit crazy? Uhhh....golly gee, what a toughie!

How nice for some of you that this election won't affect you. Because I'm terrified of what it means for me, my family and every single person on this planet.

[lovemydog]

69. Great post.

Welcome here. Have fun!

[Il_Coniglietto]

70. Thank you!

I've actually been a member for a very long time (since high school ), but I usually lurk during elections.

Bush, McCain and Romney were all horrible choices. But there's something about the gleeful viciousness of Trump and his supporters that sets them apart.

[auntpurl]

96. I entirely agree with you.

This general election is so important - I would never ever question the wisdom of pulling the Dem lever. It's nice for me that Hillary is also my preferred candidate, so if the general trend continues and she wins the nomination, I'll be both voting FOR Hillary and AGAINST Trump.

[Hekate]

107. I'm glad you get it

[Metric System]

77. Sounds like Sanders supporters are planning on voting Trump.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. Which would be more harmful? A tablespoon of arsenic in your coffee or a tablespoon of strychnine?

[Mufaddal]

83. When it comes to which candidate is the #BankLivesMatter candidate

I think we all know that Goldman Sachs, Citi, JPMorgan, etc., gave their answer a long time ago: #ImWithHer.

[emulatorloo]

84. Just endorse Trump and be done with it.

[George II]

94. Hillary Clinton will still win the Democratic nomination and be elected President.

[Yavin4]

100. Here comes the old, No Difference, arguments from 2000.

People here were shouting that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now.

[Nonhlanhla]

103. +1

[Politicalboi]

101. The Queen would do more harm

And the banksters would prefer The Queen.

[hifiguy]

102. That's a push if ever one there was.

I actually think the Bank$ter$ would prefer HRH. They were happy with either her or Jebthro and said it very publicly.

[CoffeeCat]

105. The neocons also love Hillary--the founder of PNAC endorsed Hillary

which is really a big boost to her campaign. When you've got the entire military-industrial complex and all of the warmongers cheerleading for you--there's just nothing you can't do!

I think Robert Kagan, the founder of the neocon movement, endorsing Hillary last week--was a big 'fuck you' to the base of the Democratic party.

Hillary is a warmonger and a neocon darling--and she's not afraid to shout it from the rooftops.

YAY! Look who endorsed me--the guy who hatched the plan to start the Iraq War--even before it was a reality. He likes me! He really likes me!

Kogan founded PNAC and wrote the plan (which he penned in 1996) to destroy Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya--in order to enrich US interests is quite ambitious. And it's the reason why we see endless war against the Middle East and the destabilization of the region. Much easier to plunder and control when leaders are gone and chaos has ensued.

That's some serious pathology, right there.

http://batrneoconwatch.blogspot.com/2016/02/neocon-kagan-endorses-hillary-clinton.html

[Hekate]

106. So I'm guessing -- just a wild-ass guess here -- that none of you will vote for Hillary in the GE.

Again, just a wild-ass guess here, supposing she's the nominee.

I mean, I'd have a hard time voting for someone with the attributes you name. If it were true.

By the way, has the Bernie campaign figured out yet that the way to register voters is for campaign volunteers to show up with a card table and forms from the LOCAL County Registrar's Office and do it themselves? Just asking, because that's a topic that has been pretty hotly debated here.


JURY: Just asking legitimate questions based on Democratic campaigns now in progress and topics under widespread discussion at DU. I'm in the minority in this thread, but this is GDP, and one principle of a democracy is the protection of minority rights. Just sayin'

[dsc]

109. guess it depends upon your perspective

if you are one of the Hispanics who if they are likely will be rounded up and deported and if they are unlucky will be beaten to death in the streets by mobs of racists inspired by Trump (2 have already had that happen) they might find Trump worse. But you are not Hispanic so you apparently don't care. If you are a woman who will see the right to abortion disappear across the South and plains you might think Trump is worse, but you are male so you don't care. If you were black and threatened with having your voting rights eliminated, you might think Trump is worse, but again you aren't black so you don't care. If you were gay and faced losing your marriage rights or having them severely limited by religious freedom you might find trump worse, but you are straight so you don't care.

[MisterP]

110. a choice between the guy Anne Frank's sister says reminds her of Hitler vs.

someone who hired IS and, when told of a cartel coup, whose only answer was "I'll keep their democracy from surviving" is NOT A CHOICE