Boston Magazine now reporting on what is going on in New Bedford Mass

[jillan]

Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2016/03/01/bill-clinton-massachusetts-voting-laws/

Did Bill Clinton, Mayor Walsh Break Massachusetts Voting Laws for Hillary?
Depends on your definition of ‘campaign materials.’

Adam Reilly ?@reillyadam
If I read the pool report right, @hillaryclinton's #1 surrogate--the former POTUS--worked Holy Name for 44 minutes. https://twitter.com/conoryunits/status/704765886205468672 …
1:33 PM - 1 Mar 2016

Adam Vaccaro ✔ ?@adamtvaccaro
Spokesman in Sec. of state's office says it has reached out to remind campaign of the rule. https://twitter.com/reillyadam/status/704745947499257856 …
Follow
Adam Vaccaro ✔ ?@adamtvaccaro
Asked whether his presence constitutes campaigning: "He's a well known person. And he's a spouse of a candidate. That should answer the ?."
12:23 PM - 1 Mar 2016
5 5 Retweets 5 5 likes

The former president was spotted in the Newton Free Library in Newton, as well as the Holy Name gymnasium in West Roxbury—both polling locations. He was joined at the latter by Boston Mayor Marty Walsh, a Clinton supporter.

Trouble is, that’s precisely what he and Walsh seem to be doing, according to the Secretary of the Commonwealth’s voting regulations.

“Within 150 feet of a polling place…no person shall solicit votes for or against, or otherwise promote or oppose, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election,” the text reads. In addition, campaign operatives are prohibited from distributing “campaign material intended to influence the vote of a voter in the ongoing election” within 150 of a polling location.

WTG Bill!

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Attention: "Calling Trey Gowdy, calling Trey Gowdy

report to the announcer's booth, ASAP, and bring your select committee"

[DrDan]

19. lol

[Cali_Democrat]

65. HAHAHA

[bkkyosemite]

2. cheaters cheaters....and I do believe the vote machines will be tampered with too.

[Skwmom]

8. His being there could be the excuse...

[GoneFishin]

52. Yep. The Bill incident gives them plausible deniability to cover for radical results actually

caused by electronic voting machine fraud.

They are such cheating dirtbags.

[jillan]

15. That has nothing to do with campaigning w/in 150 feet of a polling place - which is Mass voting regs

It's all in the article.

It's NOT about the voting machines. It's about campaigning inside of a polling place.

[bkkyosemite]

20. I know that I also think because they want to win so bad that the machines

owned by corporate America will be tampered with...they have the codes.

[jillan]

23. I wouldn't be surprised.

[passiveporcupine]

75. But he didn't campaign inside, he just shook hands with people

wink wink

It's illegal to have pictures inside that would be considered "campaign material" for one candidate or another...but a famous person like Bill can walk around inside shaking hands with workers, and not be considered "campaign material". Well in my book, that's not campaigning, as long as he's wearing a paper bag over his head.

Oh, wait...he's not!

[pacalo]

16. When they flagrantly, willfully break rules for everyone to see,

what must they do when no one can see?

For all we know, he could have been at these polling places 'on business'. Shady.

[madfloridian]

3. Kick..

Also a video at this link

http://wpri.com/2016/03/01/bill-clinton-arrives-in-new-bedford-on-super-tuesday/

[SusanCalvin]

62. He did not belong in or in earshot of

the area where people were not allowed to have political signs because of distance. Period.

I doubt it made any difference, but it shows a disregard for the rules.

[The Wielding Truth]

89. It is a form of voter intimidation. That's not simple disregard. How could he be so careless?

[SusanCalvin]

95. I think "careless" covers it. He knew but didn't care. nt

[The Wielding Truth]

100. That's not what I want in the next administration. sigh... The Repub's are even worse though.

God. It turns my stomach to think the only guy worth leading this country is so buried in paid bull sh*t and out and out corruption.

Who really wants to go back to segregation, illegal abortion, a open racial and sex caste system, laws that protect only the wealthy, and allows this country to throw away one who seeks an honest life.

I don't get it!!

It is not what makes our country "Great again".

I Bern for a revival of honesty!

[Mufaddal]

4. Let the apologetics... begin!

(fires starting gun)

[jillan]

7. They already have - just look at the first replies.

[Mufaddal]

14. Sigh

There were no replies when I started typing. I was late to the races!

[monicaangela]

5. Do they have electronic voting machines there?

[jillan]

9. I don't know. Do they?

[monicaangela]

17. I believe Boston uses the optical scanner but...

One form of wholesale fraud possible with optical scan voting systems is during the recording of votes. Douglas W. Jones of the University of Iowa states that if a potential attacker were to gain access to the voting system configuration files, they would be able to "credit one candidate with votes intended for another." He found these files are exposed in the computer system used to prepare the election, making them vulnerable to anyone setting up the election. The files are then transferred to the voting system using removable media, and "anyone with access to these media could potentially attack the system.

Another form of wholesale fraud is during tabulation. Possible attacks have been demonstrated by Harri Hursti and the University of Connecticut.

If an attacker is able to obtain a blank ballot (by theft, counterfeit, or a legitimate absentee ballot) the attacker can then mark the ballot for their chosen candidates and convince (through intimidation or bribery) a voter to take the pre-marked ballot to a polling station, exchange it for the blank ballot issued and return the blank ballot to the attacker. This is known as chain voting

Some suggest many of these well-known vulnerabilities can be effectively mitigated. Ballot stuffing may be resolved with incorporation of randomly generated ballot identifier for each paper ballot and capturing digital ballot images of scanned ballots as electronic audit.

Tabulation fraud and wholesale tampering can also be prevented by adding a cryptographic verification mechanism. This approach is mathematically based, and thus invariant to software attacks or breaches in chain-of-custody of the paper ballots. One such system is Scantegrity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_scan_voting_system

[bkkyosemite]

24. It was proven in 2008 that the tabulators were incorrect after the county election.

officer kept saying they work great...he ate crow. What I meant is that votes can be tampered with with vote machines, with people counting wrong and with tabulation...and if someone wants to win bad enough, which the Clintons do then they can rig the system...now where have I heard rig before. They have the connections to do it and the establishment has said they don't want Bernie.

[monicaangela]

30. Bingo!

[WDIM]

6. Like always rules don't apply to the Clintons. NT.

[thereismore]

10. WTF is he thinking? He is deliberately breaking the law. nt

[HooptieWagon]

11. Yep.

[bkkyosemite]

26. Win by crook...what is the saying

[monicaangela]

39. By hook or by crook

Some even say by hook, by crook or by pocket book meaning either one or all three of the three methods is necessary for some who are trying to win. Hook=anything that catches; snare; trap. Crook=a dishonest person, especially a sharper, swindler, or thief. Pocketbook=a person's financial resources or means.

[nichomachus]

27. When has that ever stopped a Clinton? nt

[Punkingal]

31. He's just being himself....and to think I used to LOVE that jerk.

[thereismore]

33. I loved him in since 1991 and I was furious for what the repugs did to him, but actually,

he did it to himself. And to that woman.

[Punkingal]

36. Yep. It took me a long time but I woke up.

I mean, how brazen can a person be? He knew they were after him, and he just went ahead with his idiotic behavior. And he would still be denying it if not for the blue dress.

[dragonfly301]

43. My oldest son is a child of the 90's

one day after school he had two neighbor girls over to play. Things got quiet and I went in to check on them and found them under a blanket playing tent. I was busy making dinner and couldn't spend my time watching them so I asked the little girls to go home. After they left my 8yo said "I did not have sex with those women." Thanks Bill Clinton. The 8yo is now an improv comic in Chicago.

[JackRiddler]

12. He's just holding a neutral seminar on banking.

[arcane1]

13. An honest candidate, who is SURE to win, would not need to do this n/t

[Dragonfli]

22. That would require an honest candidate, you can see the Clintons' problem here. /nt

[pacalo]

28. Bernie's got the enthusiasm in a country that is Clinton-weary.

I'm very wary about Clinton being the so-called front runner.

[madfloridian]

18. From the NYT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511384459

[jillan]

21. Wow! It's really getting press. The one who is to blame, imho, is the Mayor!

He should know the voting rules and regs of his state & should have stopped Bill from going into the polling places.

[Kittycat]

25. Oh geez

A former president in the middle of a primary campaign for his wife should know better.

[bkkyosemite]

29. You don't think the Mayor is in bed with the Clintons...maybe a nice apointment

when she gets elected ...no...

[jillan]

32. He's a Hillary supporter.

The former president was spotted in the Newton Free Library in Newton, as well as the Holy Name gymnasium in West Roxbury—both polling locations. He was joined at the latter by Boston Mayor Marty Walsh, a Clinton supporter

.

[bkkyosemite]

40. And he knows he is breaking the law but ya know when you are offered a good

place in the Adminstration...they bribe all the time in DC they blackmail too...The Clintons have been in DC a long long time.

[JDPriestly]

57. Bill Clinton is a lawyer and has run a lot of campaigns.

He was flaunting the law. Just more corruption and disrespect for the law.

After all, when you have that much money, I suppose you begin to think that the law is just for the little people.

Uggh! Hillary!

How can anyone vote for her???

[Chezboo]

94. The mayor campaigned for Hillary in NH. nt

[Gwhittey]

34. Bill broke no laws as reported so far.

Him being in polling place is allowed as long as he does not talk, approach voters. I mean if people buy that you are not going to be influenced by someone giving you 9 million dollars for a few hours work, they are not going to think Slick Willy was up to no good.

[jillan]

38. Just posted this below - here is the law, as posted by Boston Magazine

http://www.mass.gov/courts/docs/lawlib/900-999cmr/950cmr53.pdf

#20 section 53.03

[bkkyosemite]

41. Billy boy not talk

[JimDandy]

68. "otherwise promote"...that's the part he absolutely broke. There is no other reason

for:
--the presence of a candidate's husband;
--on election day;
--at multiple polling stations;
--in a state where he does not reside and which state is a toss up btw his wife and Sanders
--in a county that was going for Sanders;
--and whose presence shut down (security denied voters access to the polls for hours before and during his visit) access to those polling sites and caused hours long voting lines after he left.

If I were the judge, I'd extend the voting times for each of those locations and fine Clinton's campaign to kazoo for knowingly violating the law.

[arcane1]

70. Exactly. There is no HONEST way to claim this was some random visit to a random public place.

[AlbertCat]

83. as long as he does not talk,

Baloney.

Bill Clinton walking into a voting place is no different from a stranger walking in with a big sign that says " VOTE FOR CLINTON!"

The conflict of interest is HUGE.


Where's Chelsea? Someone keep an eye on her.

[MADem]

93. He can talk--he just can't hand out buttons or say "Hey everyone, vote for my wife"

but he can say "Nice day"....

And Bernie Sanders is free to do the very same thing.

So's his wife.

[72DejaVu]

35. It is not illegal for candidates or their surrogates to be at polling places

I don't remember the last election I voted in that some were not present.

[jillan]

37. In Mass they cannot be within 1500 feet,

#20

http://www.mass.gov/courts/docs/lawlib/900-999cmr/950cmr53.pdf

[72DejaVu]

42. Are you trying to claim that actually went to the booths with voters?

Everyone who has ever run for office knows you an be at the polling place. If he says "Vote for Hillary" he's broken the rules. If he says "I'm Bill Clinton, nice to meet you" he has not.

[jillan]

44. He was inside of the polling place and that is against rules and regs according to the sec of state.

I posted 2 links on this.

You can argue all you want - it's in black and white http://www.mass.gov/courts/docs/lawlib/900-999cmr/950cmr53.pdf

And it's now being reported in Boston & has hit the NYT.



But whatever.....

[arcane1]

46. Heads are spinning trying to come up with the right memo to counter this

And then there is the matter of distributing said memo before the story gets too much attention.

It must suck, supporting the unsupportable.

[72DejaVu]

47. I don't know what happened, I'm asking what is being alleged

The rules that you posted do not state that it was illegal for him to be inside the polling place. What he may or may not have done there is a separate matter.

Not worth making a big deal about in any case.

[jillan]

50. Please read this -

This is from the Sec of State of Mass.
http://www.mass.gov/courts/docs/lawlib/900-999cmr/950cmr53.pdf

(20) Only the Following Personnel shall be Permitted Within Guard Rail.
(a) Election officials
(b) Voters in the process of voting
(c) Police officers with the permission of the warden
(d) Representatives of the clerk's office
(e) Children may accompany a voter within the guardrail, unless the wardendecides that it would
disrupt good order.

This is what has been documented:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2016/03/01/bill-clinton-massachusetts-voting-laws/

Inside the polling location, Clinton purchased a cup of coffee from a bake sale and shook hands with poll workers. When another woman asked for a photo, he said, “As long as we’re not violating any election laws.”

Trouble is, that’s precisely what he and Walsh seem to be doing, according to the Secretary of the Commonwealth’s voting regulations.

“Within 150 feet of a polling place…no person shall solicit votes for or against, or otherwise promote or oppose, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election,” the text reads. In addition, campaign operatives are prohibited from distributing “campaign material intended to influence the vote of a voter in the ongoing election” within 150 of a polling location.

http://www.nytimes.com/live/super-tuesday-2016-elections/bill-clinton-gets-a-little-too-close-to-voters-in-boston/?smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur

A pool report from Mr. Clinton’s visit to Boston’s West Roxbury neighborhood on Tuesday morning said that he went inside the polling place with the city’s mayor, Martin J. Walsh. Mr. Clinton stopped at a bake sale at the entrance and then shook hands with poll workers.

He then showed up at a library in Newton, Mr. Galvin said, and the poll workers were flummoxed.

“We had to remind everybody what the rules are, that there is no campaigning within 150 feet of the voting booths because people are entitled to their privacy,” Mr. Galvin said. “And it’s not just him but his media entourage.

--------------
Done with this convo

[72DejaVu]

53. "within the guard rail"

Not within the polling place.

[arcane1]

55. "Within 150 feet of a polling place" n/t

[JDPriestly]

58. 150 feet. In my Los Angeles neighborhood, the average lot is 50 feet of the street lenght.

so that's 3 Los Angeles city lots in my area.

He had no business being there. His face is a campaign ad.

[MADem]

91. No, what you're claiming is not what he was doing.

Otherwise, Galvin wouldn't have allowed him to continue on.

[MADem]

45. They weren't "solliciting" votes. What they were doing is entirely legal, sorry.

You can talk to poll workers--you can even talk to voters to say "Nice weather," or "Thanks so much" or "how are you today." You can't say "Vote For Clinton!" or anything like that.

Marty Walsh is a consummate politician--he knows the rules up one side and down the other.

File this under "baseless conspiracy theories that will nonetheless gain currency" -- but there's no there, there. They walked up to the line, and not over. There is nothing that might have prevented Bernie and Jane Sanders from doing the very same thing in a state they wanted to influence.

[JDPriestly]

61. It's just the typical Clinton overstepping, noblesse oblige attitude.

I cannot stand those people.

No humility.

Dishonest and trying to take advantage.

It's just disgusting.

Bernie, on the other hand, goes out of his way to try to be fair and do the right thing.

The contrast is incredible.

No to the Clintons. no. no. no.

[MADem]

69. And if you find out that Sanders and/or his surrogates did the same thing.....?

What then?

[JDPriestly]

77. Show me that they did in a state in which it is against the law.

Bernie was in Vermont voting in his precinct today. I already read about it. He is allowed to vote in his own precinct. There is no law against that. And Vermont may permit this. But California and Mass. don't.

[GoneFishin]

97. They are only limited by what they can get away without being caught or held accountable for.

Fuck this shit.

[A Simple Game]

82. Just out for a stroll, of course, everybody believes that. I mean what else could it be?

I do it all the time on election days, just wander around a polling place then drive to the next one and do the same, no big deal.

[MADem]

85. Don't be coy.

Of course they were looking for advantage--up to and within the confines of the law.

Sanders could do this, too--for all you know, he did.

Would you be as outraged if you learned he was doing the same darn thing? Hmmm?

[A Simple Game]

111. And don't think the rest of us are fools.

They weren't "solliciting" votes.

Of course they weren't just soliciting votes, they were also intimidating people some of the time.

And thanks for the compliment, I haven't been called coy in years. But I'm not sure you know what the word means.

[MADem]

112. Oh please. Intimidating? They were so intimidating that people were falling over themselves to

shake his hand.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2016/03/mass_elections_official_warns_clinton_camp_no_stumping_in_polls

[AzDar]

106. With a MEGAPHONE. Also reported voters couldn't get into vote....

[MADem]

48. There was no violation of law. Read through to the end.

Walsh’s office denies any wrongdoing. “President Clinton joined Mayor Walsh to thank poll workers in West Roxbury this morning. They were not campaigning inside the polling location,” spokesperson Bonnie McGilpin said.

[jillan]

51. This is from the office of the Sec of State of the Commonwealth

950 CMR: OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF THE COMMONWEALTH

950 CMR 53.00: VOTING AND COUNTING PROCEDURES FOR VOTING MACHINES


(20) Only the Following Personnel shall be Permitted Within Guard Rail.
(a) Election officials
(b) Voters in the process of voting
(c) Police officers with the permission of the warden
(d) Representatives of the clerk's office
(e) Children may accompany a voter within the guardrail, unless the wardendecides that it would
disrupt good order.

ETA link http://www.mass.gov/courts/docs/lawlib/900-999cmr/950cmr53.pdf

[berni_mccoy]

49. She should be disqualified from receiving delegates

[kgnu_fan]

54. shameless

[jalan48]

56. He was probably just looking for young women.

[The Traveler]

59. Laws and rules are for the little people

They do not apply to the Clintons. Now fall in line.



Trav

[AzDar]

60. There are reports of people not being able to vote, due to Bill's Hilarious HiJinks...

[Ned_Devine]

64. What was that? And where?

[AzDar]

67. They CLOSED OFF polling places while Slick Willy ( and the Mayor of New Bedford) CAMPAIGNED there...

[MADem]

74. You do realize how absurd that sounds on its face.

If polling places are closed, how will people vote for Hillary Clinton? By osmosis?

[FailureToCommunicate]

84. Easy. They aren't as likely to be voting for Hillary in New Bedford. Only Bernie signs here.

[MADem]

87. Signs don't always translate to actual voter support, you know. nt

[dchill]

110. Every single post by you in this thread...

is deliberately obtuse. Or is it worse? Can you really believe yourself?

[SoapBox]

63. But, but...rules don't apply to the Clintons.

NO More Clintons.

(and the thought of him skeezing around the White House makes me sick.)

[wyldwolf]

66. I'm sure he changed a lot of minds. if Bernie loses there tonight, blame Bill!!!!

[jillan]

71. Seriously? He violated the election laws of the Commonwealth. It has nothing to do with votes.

[wyldwolf]

88. link that says He violated the election laws of the Commonwealth?

[Tarc]

105. Would you care to back up that assertion with actual proof?

e.g. not twitter feeds?

[zentrum]

72. Depends on

…what your definition of "election" is.

For some, it means coronation by any means possible.

[Merryland]

73. the rules don't apply in the Clinton family

It's disgusting.

[bkkyosemite]

78. Look people (please) the Clintons do not want Bernie to win MA which is what Bernie

is hoping for. So they are going to try everything they can to make sure he does not win including Bill's celebrity. So they can use a loss in MA for Bernie against him to make him look like a failure. Wonder if Bernie knows about this crap going on.

[bec]

79. If people actually support this bull shit

you need to check yourself. I see this as a form of voter suppression. Plus it is illegal.

[Dont call me Shirley]

80. Losers cheat to win.

[Helen Borg]

81. Well, he's slick Willy for a reason...

He wants badly to go back to the WH. Even as a trailing spouse. Ah, those memories...

[gordyfl]

86. There Are Rules, Then There's "The Clinton Way"

[MADem]

90. Here's an interesting link: Clinton was SCHEDULED to be in New Bedford since YESTERDAY.

http://wbsm.com/bill-clinton-may-be-coming-to-new-bedford/

[Bluenorthwest]

102. Scheduled to speak outside the Buttonwood Park Warming House at 12:05pm

And yet "The former president was spotted in the Newton Free Library in Newton, as well as the Holy Name gymnasium in West Roxbury—both polling locations. He was joined at the latter by Boston Mayor Marty Walsh, a Clinton supporter."

Are both of those locations outside the Warming House? I do not think that they are.

[MADem]

107. It is NOT illegal. I know you want it to be, but it's not.

So long as he doesn't electioneer, he's allowed to be there. He was there with the Mayor of Boston, Marty Walsh. He later went to New Bedford--it's not a long drive.

[Mr.Bill]

92. I posted this in another thread on this topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1385928

[The Blue Flower]

96. This is exactly why I don't want him in the WH again

One can only imagine the damage he would do, upstaging and undermining her administration. In fact, imagination fails. It would be an unmitigated disaster.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

98. The most important thing to remember

is that just the sight of Bill Clinton is an high impact advertisement for his wife. As much as I dislike some of the things he did, I would probably still be a bit in awe seeing or meeting him in person. It absolutely could influence some people that are right on the fence.

It's just not right. Not at all.

[mike dub]

99. In case you didn't figure it out years back

Bill's sleazy.

[renate]

101. I would get tired of making excuses for this campaign if I were in the business of doing so

Lucky for me I don't have to.

Sheesh. I'll vote for her if I have to but I sure won't like it.

[Justice]

103. Bedford or NEW Bedford - two separate places in MA - like night and day

Most people in the north shore town of Bedford will be voting Republican

Most people in the southcoast city of New Bedford will be voting for a Democrat.

[jillan]

104. Fixed - thanks

[Nye Bevan]

108. Prison.

He should know the voting laws of all 50 states. Especially the distance away from a polling place where he is allowed to make a speech. Shame on you Bill.

Prison. Right. Fucking. Now.

[jtuck004]

109. "I did not run interference for that wom...the former First Lady". n/t