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Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:45 PM

"Though Imperfect".

This probably... Will not wind up seen by a handful of people. And yeah, I accept and own up to that. I've gone straight down to the bone trying to collate and wrap up and prettify all of the reasons I couldn't countenance the idea of pulling the lever for Clinton if it came down to it; and to be fair, I deserve my amount of flak for it. But honestly, I don't know what spurred today's events. Maybe I was experiencing drunkenness across the space-time continuum-- or maybe it was just the exhaustion of mindless tedium at work, but I decided I'd do two things today. The first one doesn't hold any relevance to this, but the second does-- I went and pm'd someone who I'd previously thought was the very picture of everything I stood against.

I'd thought that, because we have at least three-quarters common ground between us, I'd be able to talk with this person, frankly, without worry for repercussions. As a lot of you have seen, I have a bad habit of becoming very quickly abrasive. And he said something today that honestly-- it's been a good... Ten, fifteen, twenty minutes-- I've lost track-- but I'm still sitting here thinking about it, my drink all but forgotten next to the laptop I'm writing this from.

"But, even still, our history as Black people in this nation has taught us that the "government", though imperfect, has been our guardians, from protecting the Freedman during Reconstruction, to integration and anti-discrimination enforcement."


"Though imperfect". In all the time I'd spent angry, absolutely incensed by both Hillary's supporters-- who till about 45 minutes or so ago, I'd thought were either misguided or ignorant-- and Bernie's supporters who said they'd hold their nose and vote for Hillary in the GE if that's what it boiled down to, those two words never occurred to me. Wouldn't have occurred to me. "Though imperfect". That has a lot to do with how I was raised, but that doesn't matter right now; what matters is that we're not going to be able to get perfect. Would it be nice? You bet your ass. But we have have to make do at the end of the day.

After the GE, sure, we can crucify each other all we want. Something tells me there'll be no shortage of crosses, but a dearth of bodies in the DNC if things go down the way my cards are saying they will. But as for right now, we need to at least get along with each other, at least until the day after Election Day. Where the primaries are concerned-- I'm not giving congratulations out until all the data's in, but... So far, both sides have looked nasty. I'm certain that for every insufferable Clinton supporter, there's an absolutely infuriating Sanders supporter, and vice versa. Is it too much to ask to at least... Remain somewhat civil?

Because a lot of posters here, as much as it sticks in my craw to admit it-- a lot of 'em are right. Yes, I still unequivocally believe that Clinton will be Hell solidified over high water if she gets 1600. But that's nothing compared to what the republican nominee will do to us. At this point, it's not fear-- to crib another(albeit this time, slightly mangled) quote from the person I talked to-- it's about survival, dumbasses. Survive to be dealt into the next hand, and hope to bluff our way to the pot. After Election Day, free for all, anything goes; but till then, we're kind of stuck with each other. And right now, I'd say both sides will desperately need to cross the aisle at some point, no matter who wins the nomination.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Though Imperfect". (Original post)
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 OP
tk2kewl Mar 2016 #1
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #3
pkdu Mar 2016 #2
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #4
pkdu Mar 2016 #14
BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #5
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #8
BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #9
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #11
MisterP Mar 2016 #21
thereismore Mar 2016 #6
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #7
madfloridian Mar 2016 #10
Rilgin Mar 2016 #12
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #13
Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2016 #15
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #16
Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2016 #17
VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #18
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #19
bigtree Mar 2016 #20

Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:54 PM

1. Nice post for #1,000

 

I still have difficulty with the "though imperfect" approach. I have no illusion of Bernie as perfect, but I still have a hard time with the idea that some will vote for less perfect out of fear of losing the GE

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Response to tk2kewl (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:58 PM

3. I'm hardly saying less perfect for the GE.

At least, not unless it absolutely comes down to it. But I've been doing a lot of talking to people who don't exactly see eye to eye with me, and I'm not talking height-wise. They're right, that at stake is the Supreme Court at this point. Everything that we've gotten to so far can be kissed goodbye if a repub gets in. Hell, in my home state, they just passed a resolution allowing pastors to deny officiating over same-sex marriages. While yes, there are still ways around that kind of thing-- it's not the act itself, but the implications, the sub-text, it's everything that the act means.

The right wing will stop at nothing to piss all over our progress. Writing vitriolic rhetoric is easy, if I was able to do it. But if it comes down to it, then for one day, we have to rally together like we're still a party. And the day after the election, I'm going to wash my hands, brush my teeth, rid myself of the bad mojo and go to work for a Labor party or something to that effect. All I ask is for a few more months of at least attempting to work together. It's gonna be a longer primary otherwise.

((And yeah, that was kinda really fucking poignant, that post landing at that number.))

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:57 PM

2. Pretty damn good for your 1000th post !nt

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Response to pkdu (Reply #2)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 06:59 PM

4. I should have screenshotted it.

I'll likely never write something this... At least, heavy for me, for a thousandth again.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:56 PM

14. Google Cache is your friend - get it quick



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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:06 PM

5. "Though imperfect" is a long way from completely corrupt n/t

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:18 PM

8. No doubt.

"Though imperfect" is more or less an indictment against the entire party, considering our best chance of survival is someone whose actions have shown them in my eyes to be corrupt. But at the end of the day, it's about survival.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:21 PM

9. Why do you want this party to survive in its current form?

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:24 PM

11. I started thinking more about things today.

And it occurred to me, with the decision handed down in Texas a few days ago, that if a republican does get in, there is a very good chance that almost every single person I socialize with outside of work will have to leave the country to get married. That if my little sister gets knocked up by some jackass at her school, abortion may not be a safe or legal route for her. I just want things to hold together long enough to secure an election, at this point, it doesn't matter who.

The day after? Let it fall. But not a second beforehand. It's too early to condemn the whole thing and bring in the bulldozers.

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Response to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:11 PM

21. cartel coups are pretty corrupt

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:16 PM

6. You might want to repost this after the

Convention.

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Response to thereismore (Reply #6)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:17 PM

7. Might have to, tbh.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:23 PM

10. Times are different now. Once you say someone is not a Democrat and shut them out....

things change. It was tough being a Deaniac but we turned to Kerry and worked hard for him.

But even though the centrist Dems held a press conference to say Dean would not be president...we still stuck around and worked hard.

But this primary has changed things. DWS publicly said Bernie was not a Democrat, she has gone against the neutrality rules that govern the DNC. We have been considered no longer Democrats, yet expected to be there at the end with money and votes.

Time will tell.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:32 PM

12. I appreciate your sentiment

My emotions follow some of the same patterns when I look at the present facts.

I probably have a lower vision of Hillary. I think she is more than imperfect. I think she is a politician who will head us in the wrong direction ... not just status quo but off the cliff. Despite her protestations, I think she absolutely supports corporate rule and the following policies: the TPP, Private Prisons, Fracking, Oil and Gas subsidies. I think she will sacrifice general population benefits to support continued low taxes on the rich in response to continued contraction of the economy and increased concentrations of wealth. I think she will compromise on social security.

And I fear that she can not win the GE with her baggage, with her scandals, with her perception as a liar, and with her unfavorables which make her basically unelectable unless a Republican with equal unfavorables (i.e. Trump) runs against her. Against Kasich and perhaps against Rubio she will have a very hard time winning.

However, she is running so my emotions do see saw. However, what is rock solid is that I will never forgive is that she ran for office knowing that she was risking the GE. All her problems with enthusiasm were predictable since she lost the primary election in 2008. Her response to this is power politics and ugly campaigning to keep anyone from running except someone who had principles and was thought to be an afterthought (kind of like Rand and Ron Paul running on the Republican side). She did not really consider him a threat and he did not ask anything of the establishment. She locked up donors and endorsements and the media presented her as inevitable. Given her and Bills control it would have been foolish for anyone to run against her.

Her running with her GE weakness and primary ugliness is absolutely unforgiveable. What is also somewhat unforgivable is that her supporters ignore her weaknesses and history altogether in their support. It is understandable because its hard to live with cogntive dissonance on someone you are voting for but it not really forgiveable.

Just this week, the email dump revealed another outright lie in her last campaign about the Columbia Free Trade Agreement where she ran against it public ally while actually being totally in favor of it. This is the death of democracy if we reward politicians who lie to us about their policies. I have posted numerous threads about her vote against a ban on the use of Cluster Munitions in civilian areas. It was an absolutely unforgivable vote and totally ignored by her supporters because it would create too much cognitive dissonance in their support of Hillary.

Bernie is closer to the "not perfect" candidate. Of course he has his own warts despite having a generally admirable history and has his own problems in the general election (attacks on age, radicalism, socialism) which will be attacked by the Republicans. However, he is viewed favorably and is considered honest which is a big step up.

Frankly, I wish we had more and other candidates but the only one to blame for that is Hillary. That is what is truly unforgivable and I wish would be recognized by her supporters.

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Response to Rilgin (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 07:37 PM

13. I can appreciate that. Thank you for your input.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 09:36 PM

15. I would request that before we can make any amends, many folks need to apologize to

 

black voters for their rudeness, insults, arrogance and absolutely disgusting behavior.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 09:38 PM

16. I'll wholeheartedly agree. nt

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 09:39 PM

17. I stand in solidarity with you, brother.

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 09:41 PM

18. Glad there's at least a few, to be frank.

Just tonight I've seen some reprehensible shit on both sides.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:03 PM

19. K&R ...

 

As a Person of Color, our electoral choice is not about "perfection" or "protest" or, even, "Hope" (I'm not going to get into how that differs from the "Hope" President Obama talked about) ... it's about looking at what is, as it is ... not how we wish it was.

People of Color on this site have had vigorous discussion about voting versus not voting in the primaries ... that's cool and that's what we have always been about.

But, People of Color on this site are nearly unanimous on the issue of voting in the General Election (sorry, JAG) ... we have far too much to lose by sitting the top of the ticket of this General election out. And, our consensus matches the body of every other segment of the traditional Democratic base's sentiment,

So anyone, trying to convince you to "protest" or "principle" vote, is not your friend.

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Response to VulgarPoet (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 10:08 PM

20. k&r

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