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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:31 AM Mar 2016

Michael Tomasky warns Bernie to get in line and quit attacking Hillary as she will win.

I find myself increasingly disappointed with many journalists and news moderators who have taken sides so openly in this primary.

Time for Bernie Sanders to Get in Line. Time to ratchet back his attacks on the presumptive nominee.

Does Super Tuesday change anything on the Democratic side? Bernie Sanders got enough wins, and delegates, to keep at it. So that won’t change—and I want to say clearly that it should not change. But this is what should change: From here on in, Sanders ought to lay off the attacks on Hillary Clinton, the Goldman Sachs speeches and all the rest. Eventually, he’s going to lose. She’s going to win. He can do it in a way that burnishes hi Fs standing in the party he’s decided to be a member of and that makes him a pivotally powerful senator during a potential Clinton presidency. Or he can do it in a way that damages her reputation and ultimately his own.

Most of the individual results, for all the hype, don’t really mean that much. Sanders won Vermont. Given. Sanders won Minnesota and Colorado, which are both important states, but they’re weird caucuses. Oklahoma was an interesting win, but the black percentage of the vote is small there compared to deep South states, and anyway it’s as red as a state gets. Wesley Clark won Oklahoma in 2004.

A number of Clinton’s wins don’t really matter much either, again, because they’re red general election states. Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas; who cares how much she won by? Georgia is a slightly different story, because Georgia is inching its way toward purple-dom, and she can at least make Donald Trump spend money there this fall.

Sanders should keep running. He has the money, so why not? He draws the crowds. And his presence keeps Clinton on her toes, keeps her from sail-trimming and tacking back to the center too early. So he should stay in as long as he wants to stay and keep up the pressure on the issues.


Why Michael how very kind of you to say that Bernie can continue on.

But it’s time to start pulling back on the food fight. Sanders got into this race thinking: I’m not gonna win, but I’m gonna push this party to the populist-left and put issues on the table that I want to see put on the table. You could tell this way back when he said “enough with the damn emails.” Then he came oh-so-close in Iowa and rolled in New Hampshire, and that’s when he started to think he might actually win this thing—to the astonishing extent that he reportedly didn’t even write a concession speech in Nevada.


There's more condescending lecturing at the link.

Who does he think he is? Why is he chastising only one candidate?

He is making it sound "okay" for Bernie to continue on...but only if he doesn't say unkind things about the presumptive nominee..

In my opinion that is probably one of the worst ideas Tomasky has come up with ever.

I'm feeling less and less like a member of the party. If our leaders and journalists and online anchors are picking our presumptive nominee....then why bother to vote?
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Michael Tomasky warns Bernie to get in line and quit attacking Hillary as she will win. (Original Post) madfloridian Mar 2016 OP
Funny how pointing out Clinton's record is 'attacking' Matariki Mar 2016 #1
No offense intended by this but tymorial Mar 2016 #28
I think his message makes her look bad, and Kittycat Mar 2016 #62
Hillary stayed in until June in 2008 jfern Mar 2016 #2
Ding ding ding! dchill Mar 2016 #5
Apples and oranges. Or more like apples and cars. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #14
Bernie's worst states were tonight, so he's still got a chance. jfern Mar 2016 #15
There are a lot of Clinton-friendly states to come. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #16
Bernie can certainly win some of those jfern Mar 2016 #18
Can? Sure, but it's highly unlikely. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #20
It's a definite possibility that he can make up his defiict jfern Mar 2016 #21
I'm not attempting to discourage. And I'm not a Clinton supporter. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #50
He still has a path jfern Mar 2016 #57
Map out that path. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #58
Solid wins in various states, including California jfern Mar 2016 #59
That's not a map. You need to offer more specifics. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #60
The south will all be done voting by the 15th jfern Mar 2016 #61
As a resident of PA, I wouldn't call it a "Clinton-friendly" state tech3149 Mar 2016 #37
I was referring to the primary battle. Garrett78 Mar 2016 #53
The only way to keep her on her toes is to make her dance artislife Mar 2016 #17
You left out one part BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #47
icewater for blood? Merryland Mar 2016 #54
Tomasky knows she won't win if she keeps up the special interest... dchill Mar 2016 #3
Interesting observation... reformist2 Mar 2016 #7
I wonder who's writing this guy's checks. n/t Ron Green Mar 2016 #4
From later in the thread: aidbo Mar 2016 #13
Basically, he wants Bernie to spend our campaign donations to help Hillary.... LOL! reformist2 Mar 2016 #6
Man, we are just getting started... Fairgo Mar 2016 #8
Good advice for Sanders. IMHO riversedge Mar 2016 #9
You wish. I get it. artislife Mar 2016 #19
Right... Kall Mar 2016 #10
Daily Beast moondust Mar 2016 #11
Sounds like last night's "victories" weren't as convincing as camp Weathervane had hoped. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #12
Based on what data? 538 predicts Clinton wins in the next 5 primaries spooky3 Mar 2016 #22
34 states to go tk2kewl Mar 2016 #23
"All the next states favor Sanders" is incorrect. spooky3 Mar 2016 #25
i don't expect him to win all 34 eom tk2kewl Mar 2016 #26
I replied to the person who claimed the next primaries favor spooky3 Mar 2016 #40
well then you replied to the wrong person tk2kewl Mar 2016 #42
No, you did. Please retrace the thread. Done here. spooky3 Mar 2016 #44
your reply was to me tk2kewl Mar 2016 #46
Great advice. JaneyVee Mar 2016 #24
:l VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #27
Frankly I'm amazed how well Sanders is doing considering the pundits Nanjeanne Mar 2016 #29
+1 eom dragonfly301 Mar 2016 #43
Hmmm-seems more like Acknowledgement fredamae Mar 2016 #30
Sorry, we aren't here to settle casperthegm Mar 2016 #31
And that's just it Red Knight Mar 2016 #51
2008 version 2.0 - a veiled threat of "get in line or you won't be getting any cookees!" Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #32
Liberals aren't going to get anything from Clinton if she wins the GE anyway Doctor_J Mar 2016 #39
I've waited a lifetime for this so, yeah, I will continue speaking truth to power. Can't shut me up! Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #41
sorry, but we dumped the crown restorefreedom Mar 2016 #33
This is BS MSMITH33156 Mar 2016 #34
Makes sense to me. Lighten up Bernie. oasis Mar 2016 #35
''Get in line''? Octafish Mar 2016 #36
I think he means stop telling the truth about Hillary Doctor_J Mar 2016 #38
Daily Beast....... UglyGreed Mar 2016 #45
Chelsea's Daily Beast is on my Ignore list BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #48
Ah yes, Bernie is harming Hillary Oilwellian Mar 2016 #49
More like telling him to drop out, before he gets more delegates, and a win! RoccoR5955 Mar 2016 #52
This guy knows that constantly hammering Clinton on her Wall Street bribes CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #55
Michael Tomasky should STFU Bernie needs to go all out nuclear on Hillary and her campaign. Autumn Mar 2016 #56

tymorial

(3,433 posts)
28. No offense intended by this but
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:47 AM
Mar 2016

Whenever the right uses someone's record to highlight a perceived "problem... or what they see as a problem" democrats usually band together and call it an "attack." There may be differences between the left and right but when it comes to human behavior... most people are pretty much the same and react the same when on the defensive.

Kittycat

(10,493 posts)
62. I think his message makes her look bad, and
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:41 PM
Mar 2016

They know it. Throw a dart, her time as SoS, her lies, campaign money - it doesn't look good when his record is solid, and he stands up for the populist message.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
2. Hillary stayed in until June in 2008
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:33 AM
Mar 2016

And she gave this as a reason, "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?".

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
14. Apples and oranges. Or more like apples and cars.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:03 AM
Mar 2016

The 2008 race was down to the wire. In fact, Clinton won the popular vote and just barely lost the nomination on account of superdelegates. Plus, Clinton and Obama were quite similar in terms of policy/ideology.

I've said all along that the purpose of Sanders's campaign is to try to hold the neoliberal Democratic Party establishment accountable, to force them back toward the center if not - gasp! - left of center. But Sanders was never going to be the nominee, and his delegate deficit is only going to increase in the coming weeks. It's not a bad idea for him to focus his attention on the Republicans at this point, while still keeping Clinton on her toes.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
16. There are a lot of Clinton-friendly states to come.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:19 AM
Mar 2016

IL, MO, MI, OH, PA, NY, NJ, MD, LA, MS, FL, NC, HI, CA. Plus Washington DC.

And even in those states where Sanders might win, which are typically states with fewer delegates, Clinton will still get a proportion of the delegates.

It may just be wishful thinking getting in the way of rational thought, but I get the sense that many folks don't grasp basic math, the impact of demographics and how the nominating/delegate process works. Clinton will be the nominee.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
20. Can? Sure, but it's highly unlikely.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:32 AM
Mar 2016

And he can't just win. He has to win *big* in order to cut into Clinton's delegate lead. He can't just win big in states with relatively few delegates, states with relatively few POC. He has to win big in some big states, and that's just not going to happen.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
21. It's a definite possibility that he can make up his defiict
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:34 AM
Mar 2016

Your attempts to discourage aren't working.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
50. I'm not attempting to discourage. And I'm not a Clinton supporter.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:22 PM
Mar 2016

I'm just shocked at the unwillingness to accept reality. Sanders has no path to the nomination at this point. Sorry.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
58. Map out that path.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 06:26 PM
Mar 2016

People on this site keep insisting that he has a path, but nobody seems to be able to map out that path. Where is Sanders going to win? Which states with, say, 100+ delegates is he going to win? Where will his margin of victory be substantial enough to accumulate the number of delegates he needs? Is there any state with a large percentage of POC that Sanders is likely to win?

Saying Sanders has a path doesn't make it so. Others have explained in detail why Clinton has the nomination wrapped up, but nobody can do the same for Sanders.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
59. Solid wins in various states, including California
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:08 PM
Mar 2016

Most of the states haven't voted yet, and Bernie's worst states are all in the south.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
60. That's not a map. You need to offer more specifics.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:18 PM
Mar 2016

By the way, quite a few southern states are yet to vote. And many non-southern states with a high percentage of POC are yet to vote.

Clinton is winning states that she lost in 2008 *and* states she won in 2008. It's not enough for Sanders to win states that Clinton won in 2008--he also needs to win a bunch of the states that Clinton lost in 2008, and that's not going to happen. Again, you're underestimating both the impact of demographics and the 200+ delegate lead Clinton now holds.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
61. The south will all be done voting by the 15th
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 07:22 PM
Mar 2016

In the situation where Bernie narrowly wins the nomination, he'll be trailing by quite a bit in delegates at that point. The later states should go better. Also, POC aren't some monolith. For example, Bernie is clearly winning Native Americans.

tech3149

(4,452 posts)
37. As a resident of PA, I wouldn't call it a "Clinton-friendly" state
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:07 AM
Mar 2016

I spent 16 years out of state but when I came back home I was scared by how stupid and uninformed my state had become.
The majority will probably vote for Drumph because they don't know any better and their anger is focussed on the easiest target.
Wierdos like me that don't consume corporate media are few and far between so my perspective is definitely skewed.
I hate to say it but I think that come primary time Drumph will clean up and Clinton will be appointed as the only "rational" choice.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
53. I was referring to the primary battle.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:30 PM
Mar 2016

Clinton-friendly, as in Clinton will likely win the PA primary. As for the general election, I would be pretty surprised if Trump were to beat Clinton in PA.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
47. You left out one part
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:03 AM
Mar 2016

She also mentioned that Robert F. Kennedy was killed in June, 1968. Yes, she really said it.

dchill

(38,321 posts)
3. Tomasky knows she won't win if she keeps up the special interest...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:36 AM
Mar 2016

fundraising. I'll give him credit for being smart enough to know that. Problem is, so does the Sanders campaign.

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
8. Man, we are just getting started...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:42 AM
Mar 2016

These mooks might want to go find someplace comfortable to rest their angst. It's going to be awhile before the cutting is done.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
19. You wish. I get it.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:25 AM
Mar 2016

But he is staying in until Convention. And we are going to follow him all the way there. She needs to "listen" to us as well.

Kall

(615 posts)
10. Right...
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:46 AM
Mar 2016

... because if Bernie doesn't talk about Hillary's $225,000/hour speeches to Goldman Sachs and SuperPAC, self-funding Donald Trump who calls politicians puppets of special interests won't? Does he seem like a guy who just refrains from picking at other candidates' weaknesses out of the goodness of his heart and will leave Hillary alone? He shredded Cruz over a frigging loan from Goldman Sachs.

He's going to have a field day with the Bosnian sniper fire story alone.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
12. Sounds like last night's "victories" weren't as convincing as camp Weathervane had hoped.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 03:57 AM
Mar 2016

And all the next states favour Sanders... Oopsie!

spooky3

(34,303 posts)
40. I replied to the person who claimed the next primaries favor
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:15 AM
Mar 2016

Sanders. Your comment about 34 states in response to me is not relevant to that factual contention.

Nanjeanne

(4,878 posts)
29. Frankly I'm amazed how well Sanders is doing considering the pundits
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:50 AM
Mar 2016

And media crowning of Hillary from the beginning.

Bernie's accomplishments are rarely discussed and if they are, they are minimized. Just see Colorado and Minnesota for proof. Almost 19 points in CO and 23 points in Minnesota. But what you hear is Sanders won his home state of Vermont.

MA is practically even and given how much Clinton won the state in 2008, her small lead now would be a story if media cared.

The media was very responsible (or irresponsible) for public opinion in favor of invading Iraq. They are very responsible now for the diminished turnout of Dems and the misconceptions of Sanders policies, background, etc.

Given all that hard work to lessen the impact of what Sanders has accomplished, I'm truly amazed how well he is doing and believe he can build on it.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
30. Hmmm-seems more like Acknowledgement
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:50 AM
Mar 2016

of the hard fact---Dems ain't "gettin' in line" this time. These Threats/FEAR Worked for decades....I can see how "we" enabled them to believe "herding Dems is easy"- However, they themselves have been Warned, by the "non-voting" electorate repeatedly over the past 3 elections (low turnout=rejection(s) of Status Quo)...we're done.
I find Tomasky's warning both arrogant and amusing.

casperthegm

(643 posts)
31. Sorry, we aren't here to settle
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:50 AM
Mar 2016

I don't think the HRC supporters get it. We're not looking to settle for things. If we were good with the way things are, looking past poor decisions, and aiming low, then Clinton would be our candidate.

As a Bernie supporter I plan to redouble my efforts, continue to donate to his campaign, spread his message of honesty and integrity, and call out smears when they are thrown his way. And I will continue to point out Clinton's poor record, comparing it side by side to Sanders. I'm open to engaging in a conversation with any HRC supporter who wants to look at these issues side by side. To steal a phrase from John Paul Jones, "I've not yet begun to fight."

Red Knight

(704 posts)
51. And that's just it
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:26 PM
Mar 2016

They do not get the Sanders movement.

It's bigger than one election. It is about a movement.

They just don't understand this.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
32. 2008 version 2.0 - a veiled threat of "get in line or you won't be getting any cookees!"
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:51 AM
Mar 2016

Keep the faith and

WIN! Bernie WIN!

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
39. Liberals aren't going to get anything from Clinton if she wins the GE anyway
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:11 AM
Mar 2016

So there is no real reason to stop telling the truth

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
41. I've waited a lifetime for this so, yeah, I will continue speaking truth to power. Can't shut me up!
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 10:16 AM
Mar 2016

Revolution until we win!

MSMITH33156

(879 posts)
34. This is BS
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 09:54 AM
Mar 2016

The Democratic Primary has been civil. No one has any right to tell him to drop out. He's not harming Hillary, which is the entire premise for this article. In fact, I'd argue that the more competitive he's been, the better it's been for Hillary Clinton. Not only has she sharpened her message, but the contrast between the substantive debate on the Democratic side and the dick jokes being told on the Republican side is shocking.

Also, let's say he DOES drop out. Hillary will get a little bump, and then blackout. They are already only covering the Democratic primary sparingly, focusing all attention on the Republican circus. These primaries give an opportunity for both candidates and our party to get their message out. If we end this process via a concession now, it might backfire. The Republicans are going to being fighting this out for months and eating up all the bandwidth as it is. If we don't have an active primary going on, our entire party will be out of mind.

He can concede whenever he wants, and campaign as he sees fit. I support Hillary, but Sanders' strong showing has helped the party and both candidates in the long run, regardless of how this turns out.

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
49. Ah yes, Bernie is harming Hillary
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 11:14 AM
Mar 2016

Interesting to note that discussing what Hillary has done in her career, is harming her. Could it possibly be that Hillary has harmed herself by her own actions? There's a reason why she lost to Obama in 2008.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
52. More like telling him to drop out, before he gets more delegates, and a win!
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

They don't want Bernie in the race, because they are afraid that he will win!
They fail to look at the polls that tell us that Bernie beats ANY RepubliCLOWN. Hellary does not.
They want us to fall in line, and vote for the Queen. I will never vote for the Queen.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
55. This guy knows that constantly hammering Clinton on her Wall Street bribes
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:34 PM
Mar 2016

is having an effect. Her honest/trustworthy numbers have never been lower. Her negatives have never been higher.

Once people learn the truth about her, they shift to Bernie.

Look at what happened in Iowa. Bernie started at 4 percent. The final caucus result was .25 percent between the two. Same thing has happened in many states that Bernie has won, or has come close to winning. He lost in Nevada, but he gained 20 points in the polls in Nevada, in two weeks. That phenomena is real.

Hillary's weakness is that a great deal of her support is soft and very vulnerable. People are not excited about her candidacy. The low voter turnout on our side speaks directly to that.

If Sanders can tout the realities about Hillary Clinton, while attracting voters to his campaign--the risk is that her campaign begins hemorrhaging support.

If Sanders gains momentum and the upper hand again, she's done.

So basically, this fool--is lecturing the Sanders campaign and telling them to NOT do the things that will help Bernie win.

Oh. Ok.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
56. Michael Tomasky should STFU Bernie needs to go all out nuclear on Hillary and her campaign.
Wed Mar 2, 2016, 12:35 PM
Mar 2016

Fuck him and his pissy ass lecture.

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