Which Party is more likely to Lose because of Party Infighting

[qwlauren35]

12 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	The Republicans will lose - lots of them will stay home instead of voting for Trump
	3 (25%)
	The Democrats will lose - lots of them will stay home instead of voting for Clinton
	2 (17%)
	Too soon to tell, but they are both imploding
	7 (58%)
	Too soon to tell, but what we're seeing is normal.
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[qwlauren35]

1. You can bite my head off if you wish.

I realize that Bernie could win the nomination, but right now, he's not the front-runner. I named the front-runners.

[CoffeeCat]

2. What is happening in the Democratic party is just as bad as what is happening to the Repubs.

I compare this to natural disasters.

The Republicans are experiencing a volcano. Trump has exposed the fact that the Republicans are completely balking at the establishment and the liars in their party (of course they're a feral band of idiots and Trump is dangerous, but that's beside the point). The volcano is exploding and obvious and we can see the damage.

The Democrats are experiencing seismic shifts. However, these shifts, like with a real earthquake aren't always visible (or damaging) before the earthquake hits. Democrats are heading for a big earthquake in this election, for sure. Tectonic shifts within the party have all ready shifted. This is not just another election with people fighting, a cooling off period and then everyone comes together to sing "Let There Be Peace on Earth" and then votes. Real, substantial and deep damage has happened, in particular to the base of the party.

The DNC, DWS and the Clinton dirty campaign has just gone too far this time.

[qwlauren35]

4. Gone too far?

Do you mean gone too far to the Right?

[CoffeeCat]

10. How much time do you have?

By, "gone too far" I mean that the Clinton camp has caused irreparable damage to the Democratic party with their dirty tricks, name calling and insistence that Bernie is "sexist" and "racist". They rolled out David Brock who declared that "Bernie Sanders does not care about people of color."

It's the "Bernie Bro" slur and name calling--trying to take down supporters with a lie-based stereotype is crass. Bill Clinton even repeated the term.

It's the laughable debate schedule that favored Clinton, the DNC blocking the Sanders campaign from the voter database. We all know, the DNC expected that to end his campaign and the only reason it didn't is because Sanders fought back.

It's also the dishonest election tactics. What I saw in my Iowa caucuses--in my own precinct and on a macro level--are absolutely mind blowing. We had record turnout in the Iowa caucuses in 2008 with no problems. This year it was a tornado of chaos across the state. The Iowa Democratic Party, this year--for the first time EVER--took down the precinct-by-precinct caucus results. They were listed on a PDF that displayed every precinct delegate count. When people started finding mistakes it was taken down from the IDP website, only six days after the caucus. There was no way to find additional errors. The head of the IDP has a license plate that reads, "HRC2016". I mean...enough is enough.

Setting aside the policies that are completely wrong--the fact that Robert Kagan, the founder of the neocons, endorsed Hillary last week, her continued Wall Street dalliances, her fight against single payer, her insistence that it's just too hard to make colleges tuition free, her non-stop fundraising with Wall Street and other powerful corporate interests. If you set aside her politics, which by themselves are awful---she's just a very offensive, abusive campaigner.

She did this stuff to Obama with the religious/Muslim slurs. She circulated a pic of Obama in traditional Muslim garb and she came out and publicly admonished Obama for his "Reverend Wright" problems. She even had Bob Kerrey call a press conference in Iowa to endorse Hillary and the first thing he said was, "I love it that his name is Barack Hussein Obama!" Kerrey later apologized. For Obama, she used religion as a device. For Sanders, she uses the sexism and racism ploys, as well as attacking his supporters.

Their campaign has caused untold damage that will most likely never be repaired.

[Voice for Peace]

11. Thank you for your posts &tc

This one is perfect.

[artislife]

3. Both parties need a good shaking. nt

[senz]

5. If the Democratss give Bernie the nomintion, we win.

We get the Dems, most of the Independents, and many of the fed-up Repubs.

If not, it's a crapshoot with odds on the Republican nominee.

[OZi]

9. +1

[Lizzie Poppet]

6. The Democrats, clearly.

While everything is indeed turnout-based, how a party's candidate effects the other party's turnout matters, too. It's a pretty complicated scenario, actually.

What candidate comes out ahead in terms of turnout in a Trump v Clinton race? I'd opine that for every GOP voter turned off by Trump to the point of not voting, another GOP voter is motivated to turn out solely by the hated name of Hillary Clinton on the ballot. Oddly, they despise the center-right Democratic candidate much more than the far-left one. But "GOP voter rationality" isn't something most would pronounce with a straight face.

Moreover, a huge question about turnout has to be this: does a greater turnout among African American voters offset the near-complete crash among young voters that a Hillary candidacy is nearly certain to cause? It's more than clear the Democratic candidate isn't going to get both this year. They're not Barack Obama. Which direction is the best bet to win in November?

It should also be pointed out that all of the above questions only matter in swing states. For people whose main consideration is putting any Democrat in the White House, a hard, cold, empirically-driven look at the above questions should be the first (and to be honest, only) step in determining their primary vote (assuming it's not actually already too late). Who is going to produce the turnout trends that win the swing states?

Me? I don't care about party branding, so I don't have to make Faustian bargains. "Bernie issues" are my top priority (economic justice, unfucking the campaign finance system, crushing corporate political power, TPP, fracking, and so forth...largely areas in which Bernie almost always differs radically from Hillary). Progressive or nothing. Sorry, Hillary voters...I'm not going to be any help in November. But don't fret: my state isn't going to tilt red.

[mvd]

7. The Repukes. I believe they are stuck with the fascist Trump

And his racist, xenophobic, uneducated, pro-business guy supporters aren't enough to win in a general election. I admit I don't like things said by Hllary and some of her supporters about Bernie, but the vitriol isn't the same on our side.

[qwlauren35]

12. One interesting thing about Hillary

She seems to be going after Bernie, and hard, and ugly. But she's not causing riots, she's not stirring up racism, she's not (I don't think) insulting his followers. I would bet that she never talked about his penis size.

I guess that's what scares me about Trump. It's not JUST him, it's his followers. If he wins, THEY win. They win the right to be in-your-face racists, "go-back-where-you-came-from" racists, "head-back-to-the-kitchen" sexists... and loud and proud.

I absolutely, positively, CANNOT let him win. Because that's letting racism win. I will not allow that in my country.

[bigwillq]

8. I care more about the people

The parties will survive in some form or another.

It's the people that may not because of horrible candidates, political games, a corrupt system and broken government.