2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTo those who haven't yet voted...don't worry your little heads. 538's got this.
From Harry Enten at Fivethirtyeight March 2.
Hillary Clintons Got This
To borrow a phrase from Dan Rather, Hillary Clinton swept through the South like a big wheel through a Delta cotton field on Super Tuesday. She won seven states total, including Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia in the South. She also won Massachusetts and American Samoa. Bernie Sanders emerged victorious in four states (Colorado, Minnesota, Oklahoma and Vermont), but his victories tended to come by smaller margins and in smaller states. The end result is that Clinton has a clear path to winning the nomination, and Sanderss only hope to derail her is for something very unusual to happen.
....This lead is pretty much insurmountable. Democrats award delegates proportionally, which means Sanders would need to win by big margins in the remaining states to catch up. He hasnt seen those kinds of wins outside of his home state of Vermont and next-door New Hampshire. Consider the case of Massachusetts: My colleague Nate Silvers model had Sanders winning the state by 11 percentage points if the race were tied nationally and by 3 points based on the FiveThirtyEight polling average last week. Instead, Sanders lost by nearly 2 percentage points.
....Sanders, perhaps not surprisingly, has indicated that hell continue to fight for votes across the country. But for every win he may get in mostly white states, Clinton will be marching toward the nomination with likely victories in states such as Michigan and Florida. The math indicates that Clinton eventually will win the nomination with relative ease.
To paraphrase...Hillary will be the nominee but Bernie's welcome to be along for the ride.
This is shamelessly taking the human factor out of voting and pushing Hillary.
SO...to those of you in all these states yet to vote
...including the delegate rich state of California:
Too bad for you guys, but go ahead anyway. Just remember who's already won.
Idaho March 22nd
Arizona March 22nd
Alaska March 26th
Hawaii March 26th
Washington March 26th
Wisconsin April 5th
Wyoming April 9th
New York April 19th
Connecticut April 26th
Delaware April 26th
Maryland April 26th
Pennsylvania April 26th
Rhode Island April 26th
Indiana May 3rd
Nebraska May 10th
West Virginia May 10th
Kentucky May 17th
Oregon May 17th
California June 7th
Montana June 7th
New Jersey June 7th
New Mexico June 7th
North Dakota June 7th
South Dakota June 7th
District of Columbia June 14th
reformist2
(9,841 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)That's all that matters.
Oh, I forgot -- that's been corrupted, too.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)3/4 of them?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Care to project when Sanders takes the delegate lead?
kristopher
(29,798 posts)...and being out of Dixie?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)This is done to discourage voters in later states.
It's sickening.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)It's expensive to do, and if it didn't generate revenue (selling papers, ads, etc), it would not be done at all.
538's projections are the next logical step: scientific, statistically sound analyses.
Why the hell is everything a f***ing conspiracy?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Tisk...
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)It isn't coming.
Derision and ridicule, and nothing more.
SCantiGOP
(13,868 posts)Nate Silver's whole reputation is based on the accuracy of his predictions over the past 3 elections.
1 - Do you remember 2008 when he called 49 out of 50 states correctly? The night before the election he had NC and Indiana as toss-ups, so he gave Obama NC and McCain IN, but Obama carried both.
2 - Do you really think he would jeopardize his reputation and livelihood to be part of a "national brainwashing campaign"?
Argue your cause, but you do need to stay grounded in reality.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)He's affiliated, but there are several other analysts there who have a free hand.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Now it's just another hack tool in the hands of the establishment.
SCantiGOP
(13,868 posts)If they were predicting an advantage for Sanders, would you still consider them a tool of the establishment?
cprise
(8,445 posts)Is Sanders a tool of the establishment?
Oh BTW... 538 said that Jeb was a sure thing!
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)They are a data-driven analytical site.
It's just that the data doesn't support your desired narrative now.
They've done the math. They've done not one, but TWO articles on what it will take for Bernie to win the nomination. He's not doing it. I know you want a story of rainbows and sunshine, but the actual data do not support it.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)I couldn't fin it in my dictionary.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)Makes more sense.
GeoWilliam750
(2,522 posts)How did he do in the last mid-terms?
haikugal
(6,476 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It's getting ridiculous.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Actual delegates are being selected now. If you don't agree with their analysis, crunch the numbers and preseent another scenario. Let us judge which analysis is more plausible.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)You know the DC bubble that doesn't care about facts. DATA DRIVEN my ass.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)It was a big win in terms of voter support, but it didn't translate to a big win in terms of delegate support.
Despite the fact that Clinton suffered the second biggest defeat in New Hampshire's history, both candidates walked away from New Hampshire with 15 delegates
Why?
Because in the Democratic Party, unpledged delegates, also known as "superdelegates," don't have to support the same candidate as the majority of voters.
In fact, the whole point of superdelegates is to give the party elite more control over the primary process.
That's not a conspiracy theory, that's what the chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) recently told Jake Tapper.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/12/we-need-more-questions-like-this-one-from-jake-tapper-to-debbie-wasserman-schultz-video/
That's right, the chair of the DNC said that unpledged "superdelegates" are meant to be a bulwark against grassroots movements in the Democratic Party.
Unpledged superdelegates have been a part of the Democratic Primary process ever since Ted Kennedy supporters challenged sitting President Jimmy Carter for the democratic nomination in 1980.
Democrats had started to feel like their primary process had become too chaotic, and that it was resulting in nominees that ended up losing in the general election.
So the party decided to make their primary process just a little less Democratic by cordoning off a percentage of the total available delegates as "unpledged delegates" who don't have to support the candidate that the majority of primary voters and caucus-goers choose.
It was a move in the wrong direction - it wrested control away from voters and made the Democratic primaries fundamentally less democratic.
And the Democratic Party has only accelerated the process of handing the party over to the economic elites in our country ever since then.
Back in 1992, Al From and the Democratic Leadership Council fundamentally changed the Democratic party with a "bloodless coup" that put Bill Clinton in the White House and replaced the Democratic agenda of FDR, JFK and LBJ with the agendas of Wall Street and global corporations.
Since then, the party ranks have been filled with third-way corporate Democrats and lobbyists.
And many of them, particularly the lobbyists, have become unelected superdelegates, despite their blatant ties to corporate America.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34898-have-the-democratic-superdelegates-been-compromised
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Hillary will win on plaedged delagtes. The 538 analysis includes only pledged delegates.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)She represents the status quo, the establishment and big money's influence. She'll promise anything to get a vote then turn around and forget you exist...unless you can pay for her attention. Hillary is not interested in working for the little people, the millions who are suffering.
Our system is broken and corrupt and going down hill fast.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Pledge delegates are the delegates selected in the caucuses and primaries. Super delegates are not pledged, they can vote for whoever they want. The 538 analysis does not consider super delegates.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)What are you talking about?
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)And rec
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)bernbabe
(370 posts)It's over after March 15th so who cares anyway?
navarth
(5,927 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)Kentucky's primary is strange this year - we've always done a primary in the past where everyone voted on the same day. This year, the republicans are having a caucus instead (it's actually going on today). They did this to accommodate Rand Paul because there was a state law that would have made it illegal for him to run for senate and president on the same ballot (I don't really know all the details of that stupid decision). So maybe they thought we were voting before March 15th?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I know FL has its primary in August, but we have a Presidential Preference Primary (16th)
That's confusing too.
Let me know.
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)I was speculating on why the post on dailykos might have left it out. I didn't mean to make the matter even more confusing. Here's some more info from ballotpedia -
https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_election_in_Kentucky,_2016
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)Can't wait to vote for Bernie.
ETA: be careful--other posts about states not voting yet have been locked as not GDP
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)I received my early ballot and mailed it back a week ago.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)This and every condescending aspect of this post has become the standard by which (some) Clinton supporters talk to people now.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)calling bernie and his supporters racist.
if we are all racists,sexist and like tea party and republicans why do you want us to vote for her.she's so much better than us
according to clinton supporters.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)And I don't care. The Democratic Socialists have a far brighter future than the Third Way.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)i voted for
1992-Bill Clinton and dems
1994-dems
1996-clinton and dems
1998-dems
2000-gore in primary and GE & other dems
2002-dems
2004-Dean in primary and kerry and other dems in GE
2006-dems
2008-Obama in Primary and GE and other dems
2010-dems
2012-Obama and other dems
2014-dems
yet now according to some i am racist,sexist,anti-woman,like tea party,and a republican.
if you go after other dems like this because they support bernie instead of clinton how are you going to win independents.
Like you i have had enough of it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It's ludicrous.
Duval
(4,280 posts)I have also voted Dem since Kennedy. Guess I'm not a "good Dem", either.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I don't feel much like a Democrat anymore.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I have been a Democrat all my life.
I am voting for Bernie but not for Hillary although, as a Democrat, I will vote for all the other Democrats on my ballot.
randome
(34,845 posts)I get that some of you don't like polling firms to talk about what they do but this is getting silly. It's their job to make predictions based on trends.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]
hack89
(39,171 posts)but it certainly is not because he is a racist. They just like Hillary better.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)marew
(1,588 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Karma13612
(4,549 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Bernie has no path to the nomination.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Then waiting til the convention to be crowned shouldn't be a problem.
Contrary1
(12,629 posts)I see Hillary having no path to the Presidency. Might as well get on with it.
Stuckinthebush
(10,843 posts)She knows. Time to focus on Trump and Cruz. On to the GE!
greymouse
(872 posts)Only Bernie beats Trump.
Besides the polls saying that, you can be sure that for every dirty trick Hillary, Bill, and the MSM pull, they lose Bernie voters if she is the nominee.
TBF
(32,041 posts)but if we can get those "retards" (tm: Rahm) to stay home she'll still win.
radical noodle
(8,000 posts)I lived in Indiana all my life until 2012 and regularly had to deal with "the nominee has already been chosen" thing. I can sure appreciate your feelings, but it's not new by any means.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)I've been saying this since he first announced. By all means, vote. He still is not going to win. Why is it a problem to say that?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)How about math and data? Should we outlaw that too?
I don't want to engage in hyperbole, but this touches on what I loathe about socialistic systems of government. They tend to be very authoritarian and seek to control speech.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)ms liberty
(8,572 posts)Where did she get that from? I reread the whole exchange a couple of times trying to figure it out.
Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Get your facts straight.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Tell us all how Nate's Silver's MATH is wrong.
to the jury..it is not against the TOS to quote old posts. To that end...admin had provided a helpful search box. And, previously, this OP has had a post of mine hidden my claiming that quoting old posts is against the TOS. It is not. If it was, she would be able to cite it.
Beowulf
(761 posts)If you had a clue you would know that "new math" and "old math" refer to curriculum trends in elementary schools from the 1960's on.
538 is now owned by ESPN, which is owned by Disney. Not exactly impartial.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)so...still waiting on how Nate is wrong.
Beowulf
(761 posts)I doubt that's what you originally intended.
538 is no longer Nate, it's Disney.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)elementary school teacher doesn't have the math skills to refute Nate?
Bullshit.
Beowulf
(761 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I'm sorry but I don't see your problem.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)School us all, mad!
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)If you feel the need for that go ahead also.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)But you---you admitted to alerting on me merely for linking to your past posts.
Again......tell us the Math that disproves Nate Silver.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)wavesofeuphoria
(525 posts)You are very disingenuous.
Nanjeanne
(4,936 posts)She's going to have a very hard time beating the enthusiasm of the Republicans in a GE if she's the nominee. People are seriously fed up with this crap.
angrychair
(8,690 posts)You are not a wizard.
Glad you decided the race before 24 states (half the country) has had a say. So tired of this shit.
If she doesn't need my vote to win now than she won't need it in November (provided she remains in the race and out of jail)
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)So far the polls have been pretty spot on. We have a proportional system that makes it near impossible for him to close the deficit he already has. He has a slim to zero chance of winning.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Just let 538 take the wheel.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Look, every poll from the start until now has shown her winning. And now you're surprised she's winning? Does that make any sense to you?
angrychair
(8,690 posts)I am very aware how our system works. Again, if it is all the same to you I think he will stay in to the convention. As Democrats we have to leave someone in the race when the FBI come knocking on her door.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)He is not winning now and he won't be winning at the end. And if he stays in after it becomes crystal clear that the voters do not prefer him (Mar 15th) he will just look foolish. Whatever.
Your fantasy that she is going to be indicted re: email is just silly. But hang on to whatever you feel you need to hang onto. Makes no difference to me.
marew
(1,588 posts)And she has all those "super delegates" already in her camp that makes sure she cancels out regular citizens' votes for Bernie! She certainly does not need us! Democracy in action- NOT!
angrychair
(8,690 posts)And support all of my brothers and sisters having their vote after I have had mine.
Union strong!
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Your guy will continue to win the caucuses because they are anti-democratic and favor his demographic. But they don't have enough delegates, nor will he win them by large enough margins to win the nomination.
angrychair
(8,690 posts)When you lose. Just fine if you happen to win.
What the hell does "favor his demographic" mean? You mean the demographics of the Democratic Party? You know, all the people she will need to win if she makes it to November without going to jail first.
Have fun trying to win with 50% (at most) of 33% of the registered Democratic Party voters and a irrelevant percentage of independents and cross-over teapublicans (as you have noticed, teapublicans are already starting to concede that tRump in their person and backing off their rhetoric-that is if that turd doesn't end up in jail himself).
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)His demographic is young voters that have no problem getting to a caucus location on time and spending hours there. One of the reasons caucuses are undemocratic is because older, disabled, people that have to work while they are held, single parents with kids, etc., can often not attend.
Most young people don't have those barriers. He will do well in caucus states because of that, but he will still not win the nomination.
angrychair
(8,690 posts)I understand the reasoning behind caucuses and that they are cheaper and easier to do than a primary.
Washington's Democratic Party does it for that reason. We pay for our own.
The teapublicans do a primary but pass the cost on to the citizens of Washington.
In our case, it's really that simple.
Its Got Electrolytes
(26 posts)then decide to caucus for Bernie, just to make you look silly.
So mote it be.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Sorry.
Duval
(4,280 posts)That really sounds ridiculous, MaggieD.
DinahMoeHum
(21,783 posts)Just sayin'.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)My state was anything but a clear victory. The exit polls showed Bernie at 52-46 over HRC and suddenly after some electioneering by career philanderer Bill Clinton, she ekes out a 50-48.5 win* over Bernie.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Scary stuff.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)LMAO.
Look, the delegates are awarded proportionally. We don't count states won, we count delegates won.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MaggieD
(7,393 posts)And now that the rubber is meeting the road you all seem SHOCKED that everything people have been saying all along is coming to pass. Happy to kick a thread in the name of reality. We could use some more of that around here, IMO.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)The polls from the beginning were based on demographics they could know, but the new voters did not fit those patterns.
The polls have been used to discourage...and that should not be their purpose.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Here is something interesting:
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)questionseverything
(9,646 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Sanders led the UNADJUSTED exit poll Gender crosstab of 1297 respondents by 52.3-45.7%. The poll was downloaded from the CNN site at 8:01pm .
Clinton led the final 1406 respondents by 50.3-48.7% an exact match to the RECORDED vote. But her 50.3% share was IMPOSSIBLE. The proof is self-explanatory: How could Clinton gain 114 respondents and Sanders just 7 among the final 109 respondents?
mythology
(9,527 posts)You do understand that polls are weighted right?
Here's a link so you can better understand exit polling:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vote-2014-exit-polls-work/story?id=11996124
It's painful to keep reading these sort of uninformed posts that claim some grand conspiracy because you don't like the result of an election.
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)After the polls close the exit poll results are weighted using the actual vote count to make the data more accurate.
///
that quote from the link you posted is exactly what charnin has said for years, that the polling results are "adjusted" to match the "recorded vote"
questionseverything
(9,646 posts)the country has experienced since electronic vote counting has been introduced in the mid 60s
further proof the results are not accurate,occasionally we catch reported numbers moving backwards
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280132764
marew
(1,588 posts)Forgot New Hampshire? Bernie blew Hillary away but after the super delegates were counted they were within a single delegate of one another.
Super delegates are free to choose whomever they want at the national convention, REGARDLESS of how the vote went in their home state. How to fix an election!
hack89
(39,171 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)gain at all during the entire remaining 80% or 1,000,000 votes. She finished with the same 22,000 lead she had from the very beginning.
It did not look normal to me at all, a giant leap at the very beginning followed by no more gains for the rest of the night. It looked like what you would expect if someone wanted to put her ahead, but not so outlandishly that it would be questioned.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)In that regard Hillary is a failure as front runner, shrinking the very Party she should be energizing and expanding. It's a strategy fit for Republicans. And her supporters revel in this turnout, in this disinterested electorate.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)Seems like it got canceled. LOL!
KPN
(15,642 posts)Bernie's not going to lose. This kind of unbridled confidence is the stuff upsets are made of. Bernie stands a good chance even w/o the "arrogance" ... which in ordinary primaries does serve to discourage turnout. It's not working with the Bern.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)That kind of talk makes me even MORE furious than I already am.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)comradebillyboy
(10,143 posts)People are allowed to make predictions and say things you don't like. It's not 538 fault that Bernie is losing.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Damn, I must have slept through it.
Billsmile
(404 posts)erlewyne
(1,115 posts)There are six of us ... old timey Democrats.
We roll up our sleeves and pay union dues.
Bernie is our idol !!!
George II
(67,782 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It's been predetermined and predicted and announced.
George II
(67,782 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Besides, why worry. Hillary will win.
Many who feel a little queasy about the primary will have decisions to make in November.
And all those states who haven't yet voted, but who are being told the nominee already....well that's another matter.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)TO THE JURY......please note that this poster has previously dared me to post past links, then lied that linking to past links was against the TOS. In fact, admin has provided a helpful search box for just that purpose...searching. It is NOT against the TOS to post past threads....it keeps everyone honest.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5576177
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
dpatbrown
(368 posts)We here in California will go BIG for the Senator Sanders. Everyone is talking about Sanders. I was born here in 1948, and can't wait. The first time in my life I get to vote for a progressive.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Like the Daily Beast bozos.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)thats it's claim to fame.. thats id nada. think even a fork in the road could said who'd win in 2012
Perogie
(687 posts)Ivan Kaputski
(528 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Bernie of course.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)This has become a pattern, more noticable since 2000.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)perhaps to discourage remaining 24 states plus DC?
To make it seem overwhelming?
Karma13612
(4,549 posts)FloriTexan
(838 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I've forgotten.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)So I guess we just sit back and enjoy our statistician overlords.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid