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Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:09 PM

 

Tens of thousands to leave Democratic party the day after their primaries in protest

And this is one of the scenarios playing out and illustrates why a Hillary nomination is a perfect storm for Republicans to take back the White House.

Personally I'm not on the #BernieOrBust train but here is a glimpse into what many of us have been saying.

TENS OF THOUSANDS TO LEAVE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THE DAY AFTER THEIR PRIMARIES IN PROTEST #BERNIEORBUST
https://pivotamerica.com/2016/03/03/theres-a-movement-within-the-sanders-movement-to-go-green-after-primaries/

As a protest thousands and thousands of Bernie Sanders supporters are making plans and preparations to say goodbye to the Democratic National Committee. Many have realized that as those who control the party move more and more right away from those who actually vote that it may be time for a revolt within the party itself.

Bernie Sanders calls for a political revolution, and many are now feeling that the establishment is conspiring against them at every turn. Whether it’s Bill Clinton’s election fraud in Massachusetts, or coin flips in Iowa, or rigged debate schedules – the fact is there are many people who just can’t let this race run fair and square and may the best candidate on merit and public opinion win.


My thoughts---
I think a Hillary nomination, should it happen, would spell disaster for Democrats. Yes, she has a lot of supporters but we also need to be honest here. She is ONLY popular among Democratic voters and doesn't have the sway with Indy voters like Bernie or even Trump has. That my friends is now the largest voting block in all of America, the indy voter, at 47% of all voters. The whole mindset & meme of "Vote for Hillary if she's the nominee because otherwise Trump/Cruz" is dead. People won't go for it and they are sick & tired of the lesser of 2 evils.

It is what it is.

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Reply Tens of thousands to leave Democratic party the day after their primaries in protest (Original post)
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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:14 PM

1. After signing up for one day as a Democrat in order to vote

Not buying it. In exit poll after exit poll, Sanders' strongest constituency (that is, where he wins by the largest percentages) is Independents and/or those who never voted before. Leaving the party is an empty gesture. They were never in it.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:16 PM

3. Some perspective

 

I'm an indy. I switched to Dem to caucus for Bernie.
I'm buying it. I'm not coming back.
Indy's make or break presidential elections, we all know this.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:09 PM

361. So DINOS switch in and out just to vote for Bernie? So the party no longer belongs to true Dems? nt

 

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #361)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:55 PM

415. The true Dems., the Progressives and Liberals, are in the minority. The majority have long

 

since changed and adopted values more like those of the Republicans - such as bribery,
corruption and everybody for himself, and to hell with the rest. Being helpful to one's
neighbor is now looked upon by many as behaving like a "Socialist."

That's the way things have become. We have been under the leadership of sociopaths
- both in government and in the industrial world - for far too long. We and our values have
become degenerate. That's why we're rolling in the gutter.

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #415)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:53 PM

432. every word you say is true

We do not evolve. We devolve.


Cher

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #361)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:16 PM

421. Right the MILLONS of people leaving the dem party you mean the indies and Green Party voters?

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #361)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:26 PM

426. A party narrow enough to conform to your idea of a true Democrat...

 

is one that will go the way of the Whigs.

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #361)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:25 PM

446. You say that as if it means anything anymore

I warned the "centerists" in the party that they are the minority and that if they took things too far and asked us to leave, we would.

If the party leaders continue to tarnish the term "Democrats," perhaps we'll take on the title of "Progressives" or that of a workers party.

I personally think it will be funny if we are driven out and the Dems wind up merging with what will be left of the now shattering GOP. That'll totally show us who the real Dems were, won't it? "Getting things done..."

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #361)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:26 PM

448. No such thing as a true Democrat

There is no such thing as a true (or fake, for that matter) Democrat. You are what you vote for. When you vote Democrat, you are a Democrat. When you don't, you aren't. All Bernie voters are Democrats because Bernie is a Democrat running on the Democrat Party ticket.

It would be wise for the party to try and keep his voters on-board to win elections other than the presidential ones too. Creating a false distinction of true and false Democrats (how many times do you have to vote for it before you become a true one?) does not help.

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Response to Jitter65 (Reply #361)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:27 AM

538. That's one question I have never been able to answer.

How can you call yourself and "Independent" and vote for the republican party as it is today. Even voting for one republican is like voting for the whole establishment, they walk, run and sleep in lockstep. Not so of Dems, we are like herding cats. I've always thought Independent was a cop out. You really don't pay attention, but just listen to the buzz word.

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Response to Loki (Reply #538)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:18 PM

556. Most Independents will not vote for establishment candidates this year...

 

... if you believe the whole system is corrupt, you want someone who will either smash it or radically transform it... Trump the former, Sanders the latter.

With HRC there will be no change to this system. The banksters, fossil fuel lobbyists, hell even NRA lobbyists are holding fundraisers for her... many of them are also backing Rubio or Cruz, because even tho they may prefer establishment Repubs, they have no problem with HRC... they may have to throw a bone or two to her gullible supporters, but she will not rock their boat.

Bottom line: HRC if she is the nominee will need Sanders supporters way more than Sanders will need her supporters if he is the nominee. Sanders grows the party, HRC shrinks it. The biggest turnouts in the primaries so far compared to 2008 is where Sanders won or tied, and the lowest is where HRC dominated.

Either way, this will be the last election cycle where conventional politics prevail...

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Response to pinebox (Reply #3)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 12:57 PM

607. So you weren't dem before and then you leave?

So we really haven't lost anything.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:18 PM

9. Yes there are many

There are many who were Greens, Independents, Socialists etc. who registered as Democrats to vote for Bernie.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #9)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:26 PM

272. You just confirmed Frazzled's point

If it wasn't a requirement to register as a Democrat to vote in a Democratic primary - many states have closed primaries - would those "many who were Greens, Independents, Socialists etc." have registered as Democrats? In most cases, the answer is no.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #272)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:59 PM

310. The party percentages late last fall

 

were at an all time low of 23% of registered voters.

At the end of February that number rose to 30% because of these leftists.

With those leaving plus the disenfranchised long-term Democrats, expect that number to drop again likely as low as 20%.

Even with a majority of Latino and AA registered Democratic voters, Clinton can never win with only 20% of the registered Democratic vote, and that is assuming that all 20% get in line and hold their noses.

To win the GE, y'all need Greens, socialists, and independents. Without them say hello to President GOP.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #310)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:21 PM

423. Bernie appeals across the spectrum

Hillary doesn't

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Response to TM99 (Reply #310)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:56 PM

434. 20% of the Democratic vote?

Think you got that wrong.

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Response to brush (Reply #434)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:00 PM

435. Last fall the number of registered Democratic voters was at 23%.

 

That number has risen to 30% as of the end of last month.

If that 7% turn around and leave again and just 3% more registered Democrats (who have been so for longer than just this primary) do so as well, then yes, the number of likely registered Democratic voters in the GE will be around 20%.

No Democratic candidate can win with those number. Period.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #435)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:03 PM

466. But you wrote 20% of the Democratic vote

Didn't you mean 20% of the total electorate?

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Response to brush (Reply #466)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:05 PM

468. Read again.

 

I said registered voters.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 02:20 PM

619. I declared dem to caucus for Obama

and stayed. I've voted for Bernie in my primary.

Switching to unaffiliated. I will be voting for Bernie in Nov or looking for the most left person on the ballot (likely Jill Stein). We'll see how it plays out.

ETA - I should note that I've ended up voting for the democratic candidate every year since 1992. But the coin tosses and Bill's bullhorn have pushed me over the edge. At what point do we say we've had enough? That is for each of us to determine according to our own conscience.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:24 PM

28. Tell yourself whatever you need to

but you're going to need independents come November.

I've been a Democrat all my life and I've been waiting for a strong progressive in the mold of FDR. I will vote in my late primary for Bernie, even if I have to write him in. After that, I'm done supporting the DNC.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:36 PM

61. I stopped supporting the DNC after Wasserman-Schultz pulled that crap with the debates.

 

I took the money I used to donate to the DNC and instead donated to the DGA.

The DNC can go fuck themselves forever.

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Response to vintx (Reply #61)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:55 PM

121. Same here! The DNC today is almost like being in the RNC. All establishment driven. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #121)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:41 PM

202. I learned that back in the Obama campaign days. Why is everyone now so hot about leaving the

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:43 PM - Edit history (1)

DNC. All the FDR Dems here should have left the DNC wing a long time ago.

We don't need no DNC to vote good candidates in.

The DNC and RNC are the very essence of captured government by corporations.

That doesn't mean that we stop voting or vote non-viable third parties.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #202)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:58 PM

229. Best news I've heard today

For the future of the Republican Party.

Anyone else notice that this whole notion is predicated on the fact that Sanders has lost/will lose the primary? I thought that was a heresy. How many "will you let us vote!!" threads are currently on the Greatest Thread listing?

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #229)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:12 PM

420. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Republicans are having their problems

 

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)

right now, too! They want to get rid of Donald Trump, but they don't know how. And
he knows it, and he doesn't care either! He only laughs at them, and at the Democrats, too.

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #420)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:42 PM

431. That has nothing to do

With an OP celebrating the idea of the Democrats attempting political suicide.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #431)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:02 PM

569. No? Trump might very well split the Republican Party in two. He has so threatened several times.

 

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #569)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:17 PM

571. are you saying

That Trump's actions validate doing the same thing with the Democratic Party?

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #571)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 12:18 AM

597. I am saying that the Republicans are going through just as rough a time right now as the

 

Democrats are. And they should be taking a long serious look at their own state of affairs before
they begin to laugh and crow at others' predicaments.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #202)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:32 PM

283. Good response...

and I agree...


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #121)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:20 PM

260. many Democrats will say they will hold their noses and vote but

 

that wont make up for the millions that will stay home.

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Response to INdemo (Reply #260)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:43 PM

297. If this is true..

 

Than why isn't Bernie winning the popular vote? If he can't beat Hillary, he can' beat Trump.

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #297)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:16 PM

326. Bernie isn't winning the popular vote because people aren't seeing and hearing him.

He isn't on mainstream media and he's rarely mentioned in passing, except as an "oddity."
That has an impact on people who rely on traditional media for their news and information.

For those of us who've LEFT the mainstream media, and get our news and information online, like most of the younger generations ( say, generally people under age 40??? as an approximation ), we are able to obtain more information:

Videos of speeches; voting records; opinion pieces; etc. For us, politics is about INFORMATION.
For those who rely on mainstream media, most of their information is about PERCEPTION ( whatever media filters allow through about candidates. )

So Hillary Clinton has big name recognition, even if all her actions and positions aren't well known or well understood.
Bernie does not have as much exposure, though that is changing...thus his increasing popularity....and increasing his threat to H. Clinton's nomination.

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Response to HeartoftheMidwest (Reply #326)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:43 PM

336. OF COURSE Bernie is on mainstream media.

People prefer Hillary.

Bernie's followers love to tell us what we did wrong all these years. Well, you blew it. This should be a lesson, so take a lesson. No matter how much you want to burn the Democratic barn down, to make any difference you have to appeal to the much larger block of liberals directly to your right.

Next time, therefore, choose an iconoclaust who is also an accepting and gracious liberal, not an off-putting intolerant far-lefter -- and one who wouldn't turn 80 while still in office.

We have no idea how much difference that last may be making, only that it is a foolishly unnecessary negative to saddle yourselves with.

Oh, forgot: Choose a candidate who intends to win right from the beginning. Clue: The real beginning will occur at very least a year before you know he or she even exists.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #336)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:51 PM

344. Sorry.

Bernie's coverage is scant compared to everyone else's, although he's harder for the mainstream media to ignore as he wins more and more support.

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Response to HeartoftheMidwest (Reply #344)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:58 PM

350. Of course Hillary's AND Bernie's coverage is scant.

We have no drama! LOL. We have two candidates who have to work at differentiating themselves enough to produce enough "quarrel" to make an unexciting story.

In the meantime, the Grand Old Party is a 5-alarm fire.


(See? None of these people are watching us.)

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Response to HeartoftheMidwest (Reply #344)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:15 PM

481. My aunt lives in WI and hears about Sanders all the time.

I, otoh, live in MO and only hear about one person-Donald Trump. In MO you'd think there was no one else running.

(Actually, Sanders recently spoke just over the state line in KS and the news made a very big deal over him, much bigger than when Cruz was in KC. Still, none of them have coverage like Trump.)

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #336)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:21 PM

401. The Corp-Media has financially invested in Clinton and almost completely ignore him.

 

Many that don't stray from the Corp-Media didn't hear about the thousands of marchers last week for Sanders around the country. They don't see the thousands and thousands that have come out to support Sanders. He is new to a lot of people esp a lot of older people that don't use the internet.

Clinton and her billionaire friends might buy this election but we will continue fighting and the People's Movement will continue to grow.

By the way, why would Democrats be against a People's movement against the Oligarchy? The answer, Democrats aren't.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #401)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:49 PM

413. Ad nauseum. Tell it to those who can always be fooled.

You know, Rett o, when young I innocently assumed that referred to poor unfortunates who were intellectually disadvantaged in some way. After some decades, I was no longer so gullible and understood that it refers to the kind of people who insist on being lied to -- with their eyes wide open. Of course, that must be a sort of (but real) intellectual deficiency, just not an innocent one.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #413)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:58 PM

417. Hard to read what you mean. Sounds like you are rationalizing not helping the 99% because

 

those advocating helping them aren't truthful. If you think that Goldman-Sachs/Clinton/Corp-Media will do right by the 99% then IMO you are naive at best.

So tell me you don't believe we are in the middle of a class war. With the 99% losing ground every year for the last 40 years.

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Response to HeartoftheMidwest (Reply #326)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:16 PM

369. He's on MY TV all the live-long day. He's on every news channel, and every talking head show.

He's on Ellen, Colbert, Kimmel, SNL, Fallon, Conan--he's EVERYWHERE. His on the front pages of newspapers, he made the cover of TIME....Vanity Fair and all the big glossies have done pieces on him--you'd have to be lacking sight and hearing to not have been aware of all this.

He is out there, all over the old and new media, all over the blogs and reddit and so forth, but he is only resonating with a slice of the electorate--and that slice is not wide enough or diverse enough to carry the day.

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Response to MADem (Reply #369)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:14 PM

437. In late Jan there was a nation wide event called MarchForBernie where

 

thousands of people nation wide in from 40 to 75 cities marched in the streets for Sen Sanders. As far as I can tell the Corp-Media ignored it. They young people know about Sanders because they don't rely on the Corp-Media that has financially invested in Clinton.

The hubris of the Clinton/Goldman-Sachs machine will be it's downfall. The People's Movement is continuing to grow and will win the class war.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #437)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:19 PM

441. Did people show up? If they did, then the "word went forth."

I don't see how you can complain about "media coverage" when most young people don't watch the news anyway.

If people showed up, they were obviously informed.

I think there's plenty of "hubris" to go around--the "hubris of the perpetually victimized" meme is getting very old, indeed.

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Response to MADem (Reply #441)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:26 PM

447. What?? People showed up because Sanders has a great network. That has nothing at all to do with

 

the discussion that NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN all ignored the thousands in 45 states. Why would they all ignore such an event held for a presidential candidate? Because the wealthy class that runs the government, that runs the leadership of our party, that runs the Corp-Media, do not want a progressive in the WH. Some calling themselves Democrats some how get comfort from siding with the filthy rich that think they can buy our government. Real Democrats march in the streets to throw out the corrupt culture.

Goldman-Sachs may buy the WH for Clinton but we will continue to fight for the 99%.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #447)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:40 PM

458. What do you mean by "What???" If he "has a great network," he doesn't need the "news that no one

watches."


And "40 to 75 cities?" Think you could get a little closer to a number than that?


smh.

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Response to MADem (Reply #458)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:31 AM

496. Whether you think he "needs" it or not has nothing to do with the question of why

 

are the Corp-Media ignoring him. He does need to get his message out to more people but Clinton and the Oligarchy are doing all they can to prevent that. I guess some are more comfortable siding with the power of the wealthy. Don't tell me you think that a Goldman-Sachs' presidency will help those living in poverty.

If you want to know how many cities, search for it yourself. You sure won't find it on the Clinton News Network CNN.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #496)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:49 AM

497. They're not ignoring him, though--he's on TV more than Clinton. smh! nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #497)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 08:51 PM

593. He might get on Ellen, but no one is broadcasting the thousands that show up to see him.

 

No one is broadcasting the thousands and thousands across the country. I can't believe that you honestly think the Corp-Media is fair.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #593)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:49 PM

594. No one is broadcasting the town halls that Clinton does, either.

And while Sanders may do one Mega-Event with several thousand people in a stadium or gym, Clinton does small group dynamics where a hundred people or so gather in a library or senior center or large classroom or coffee shop and they ask her questions for an hour and she answers each one. She'll do several in a day, for several days running, often as not. I don't see those on "Corp - Media" either. I see them on facebook, or youtube--which is where you can see the Sanders events, too--if you look for them.

If you're not wired into your candidate's campaign infrastructure, you won't know where to look to find this stuff. But if you are, you will.

EDIT--It's just after nine pm eastern, and C-Span is covering a Sanders rally....so whatever.....

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Response to MADem (Reply #594)


Response to Post removed (Reply #595)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 12:15 AM

596. This is an offensive post and I am going to memorialize it.

Star Member rhett o rick (51,537 posts)
595. Why don't you admit that you love the wealthy and think they deserve to rule.

You know in your heart that Goldman-Sachs won't help those living in poverty. Sad that Democrats have to fight against other so-called Democrats that worship at the feet of the super wealthy.


There's no point in alerting, given the present environment, but your words shouldn't be permitted to be erased.

They say so much about you.

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Response to MADem (Reply #596)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 12:46 PM

604. The jury voted 7-0 to hide it

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #604)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 03:03 PM

621. And I did NOT alert on that thing, either-I didn't see any point. I am glad, though, that I have

been shown to be wrong. Humbled, too. I need to think better of my fellow humans.


DU has some really good, stand-up people as members.

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Response to MADem (Reply #596)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 12:51 PM

605. 7-0. Wow

 

That's a surprise.
Everyone waiting on the forum hosts list just moved up a notch.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #605)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 01:32 PM

609. Oh my...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #609)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 07:51 PM

624. ...

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Response to pintobean (Reply #605)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:39 PM

625. 7-0 and not a single comment. Interesting.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #625)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:34 PM

628. I think that says something.

 

I often don't leave a comment for fear of saying something that will make me ineligible for jury duty.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #628)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 08:41 PM

629. Most people are pretty calm about their remarks

I got dinged for my comments in a group that I was constantly being call for jury duty despite that group being trashed. After the 4th time being called and the jury being filled and not being able to get out of it without logging out my third jury of the day was in that group. Tell you the truth it's very liberating.

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Response to MADem (Reply #596)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 02:00 PM

613. ..

Somebody didn't take your advice.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #437)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:33 PM

590. I would love to see the young people come out and vote in droves

Trouble is - they don't, and won't! And Bernie needs those votes to stay alive while Hillary has the minorities, women and older people behind her. The stakes are too high - we cannot let the GOP get any more foothold and destroy the progress that Obama has made - unemployment down, stock market up, oil prices down, etc. Clinton is not the enemy!

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #297)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:31 PM

329. Hillary cant beat Trump but bernie can. Polls are showing that

 

Bernie Sanders defeats all Republicans and polling higher than Hillary.

Voters do not want a Bush (hes gone) and don't want another Clinton. The corporate PACs and Comporate media may buy her the nomination but when/if it comes to Hillary-Trump or Hillary-Cruz..Hillary will lose. Bill doesn't realize that him being out there campaigning for Hillary is hurting her. Voters think Bill is actually running for a 3rd term.

All these millions are invested in a losing candidate.
If Hillary would get out there and discuss issues she might change some opinions,but she is trying to buy this nomination
by attacking Bernie Sanders..That is the Republican way of campaigning.....

She will say (like Republicans do) I have a plan for this and a plan for that but never gives any details and instructs people to go to her Web site and nothing...no details just how much can you contribute,please register.

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #297)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:09 PM

362. Hillary wont win and not winning but the GoldmanSach's will buy it for her and

 

own her Presidency if she wins.

Take a look of all the Debbie has put forth to steal it for her..
Cheated ..Iowa
Cheated NV
Cheated Mass

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Response to INdemo (Reply #362)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:45 PM

386. Oh brother..

 

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #297)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:16 PM

399. Haven't you been paying attention?

Iowa, for example, the state democratic party chair refuses to release contested vote totals and drives car with license plate ‘HRC 2016’.

Nevada was really bad in terms of the caucus. People being counted without first registering, overall it was a total shit-show. In the end, all the dishonesty in the caucus favors Hillary.

There are many other examples, I'm not going to list them all, Google them if you want, but Hillary has run a campaign that would make Rove proud.

Hillary is running a very dishonest campaign, but what do you expect from a winning at any cost person. Why is it, that whenever and wherever there's shenanigans in the polling place, it's always in Hillary's favor? Kinda makes you think, doesn't it? Well, not you personally, per se, because when Hillary's winning, her supporters don't care how, as long as she wins.

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Response to INdemo (Reply #260)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:04 AM

535. I'll have to hold my nose and be roughly as drunk as a Scottish sailor

but the day after Election Day, I'm done with the DNC. To quote Killer Mike, "fuck them forever, hope I said that politely".

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Response to VulgarPoet (Reply #535)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:03 PM

552. Thats me too and I was born with blue blood

 

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:41 PM

69. Same here. Dean, DWS, and Hillary are so arrogant that they don't think they need us. n/t

 

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:21 PM

264. many of the Clinton operatives are acting just like the Bushies

 

did in 2004

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #69)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:08 PM

321. Well - I certainly don't need them.

 

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #69)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:41 AM

545. Correct. They think because they are good at cutting backroom deals,

 

that they've got this cinched up. Well, fine, let's see them do that then. Heh.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:57 PM

130. I'm about done too

 

and we're not alone. My husband and I were Bernie volunteers yesterday at a Kansas caucus and heard many people express frustration not only with Hillary as the possible nominee, but with the way the DNC and Wasserman-Schultz have steered the party to the right.

A lot of long time Democrats said they are seriously going Independent after the primary season.

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #130)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:00 PM

233. My husband and I are considering doing just that, MissDeeds.

 

It's their own damn fault. I've been a Democrat since I could vote in 1960. Bernie is our Hope.

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Response to Duval (Reply #233)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:17 PM

439. It's not an easy decision

 

Like you, I've been a Democrat for decades, but I wonder if this Democratic Party still represents me or my values.

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #130)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:05 PM

241. Threateners are tantrum throwers ignorant of party history/vision. Independent is not yet viable.

This threatening to leave business is not smart.

The time to organize a third party is while the Democrats are in power.

THEN we move to form a third party that is on the ballot of all fifty states.

Right now third parties are not allowed on at least twenty state ballots. That's state level election commission political work they need to do.

First we vote and win. Everyone needs to stop letting primary issues drive them from the party.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #241)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:12 PM

248. I am assuming that each person will take

their state into account. I've always been a non party person.
I toyed with the idea of joining the Democratic Party but could
never find a good enough reason.

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Response to leftcoastmountains (Reply #248)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:17 PM

255. So why are you here. You're not politically driven enough to even be here. What's your story.

No one can assume their state looks out for their interests, much less that their state encourages progressive partisan politics.

Your kind of past apathy toward partisan influence of the country's vision has been typically why states get away with so much tax and pro-corporate shenanigans.

All this non party apathy has brought this country's suffering people to this petty Trumpian pass.

So what's it going to be. Are you joining the Democratic Party or not?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #241)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:22 PM

265. I don't follow your logic.

 

Are you thinking if democrats are in power, the DNC establishment is going to do something to make third parties have easier access to our political system?

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Response to noamnety (Reply #265)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:51 PM

302. Yes. Pick your third party. Look at states' party majority status history. Tell me the "leavers"

have a rat's ass chance anywhere for their purity of vision.

You can't.

The revolution that Bernie outlines will still be influential with any presidential nominee, but third parties are where innovations go to die when tantrum throwers leave this party.

Because it's called adult compromise and the looong game. Both parties' partisans learned that during the campaign of billionaire Ross Perot.

Now, find the states where there's no third party ballot access and start the fifty-state strategy of a third party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_and_independent_presidential_candidates,_2012


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Response to ancianita (Reply #302)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:01 PM

312. I'm still not following your logic.

 

Maybe we are talking past each other. In this reply I see some name calling, and a link to third party candidates through the years.

But your earlier post implied it will be easier to get third parties on the ballot if dems are in control, and that's what I'm questioning. I don't see a connection between the two, because just like republicans, the DNC is not going to put forth any effort to help third parties have a national voice. Those in power tend not to like to give up that power.

If you have evidence that in the past the DNC, while in power, has in fact actively worked to give third parties easier ballot access, then I would understand your logic.

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Response to noamnety (Reply #312)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:42 PM

335. I see third party voting in a majority of blue rather than red states on the map. Perhaps I'm wrong

I agree that those in power tend not to give up that power.

But one party harbors more progressive than reactionary tolerance, and so my logic is with that party.

I guess I'm trying to overlay Obama blue states with the map of third party ballot states.

Thanks for the challenge to my thinking about how third parties are really all over the map. I'll have to study this more. But after November.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #241)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:38 PM

293. allowed on state ballots

"Right now third parties are not allowed on at least twenty state ballots."

I'm not sure that is correct. I just web searched and Ross Perot was on the ballot in 50 states and the Libertarian party is on the ballot in 40-something.

People may need to collect signatures for this to happen in some states. But also there are often rules that if a party has gotten x% of the vote in the previous election they get on the ballot.

This is one of the reasons that if I am so disgusted with the Dem/Rep choices or if it is clear that the state is going to swamp one way, I vote Green or something similar, so they continue to get ballot access.

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Response to greymouse (Reply #293)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:57 PM

308. It might well be fewer. So show me the latest chart of third ballot states. I posted a quick find.

This is not the time to be talking third party voting. Too, too much is at stake in the direction of this government.

One branch is already corporate captured and full of long held bipartisan strategies and tactics for holding itself together.

The time for talking third party joining is between campaigns, not during.

First win. THEN turn the party around. Or then get 50-state viability for a third party.

We've worked on improving the Democratic Party with Obama for eight years -- our party has upheld the high level of public discourse that FDR Democrats demand -- and we should keep up the pro-99% pressure in this party, is all I'm saying.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #308)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:31 PM

427. Improved in the last 8 years?

 

You really believe that? So why exactly do the registered numbers continue to plummet? What is improving exactly?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #308)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:11 AM

519. I'm sure you can google as well as I can,

well, maybe not since I got my results from the first 2 google results. I don't know where your wildly wrong results came from.

You brought up third parties, not me.

I plan to vote for Bernie right through the general. If I have to do it by writing in, I will do that. Fortunately that can be done in my state without involving a third party.

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Response to greymouse (Reply #519)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:43 AM

531. I hate to bring up third parties but I read about it here and simply try to make the case that it's

neither viable in 50 states nor fixable in time for the General Election.

Write-ins are easy enough to do.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #241)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:59 PM

309. It's precisely BECAUSE I know the history of the party that I reject its current direction.

 

I began my political life as a Democrat, registering that way for the first election I was old enough to vote in. As so many before me have said, I didn't leave the party, it left me.

I get it. Parties change over time. Perfect example: the GOP, once the liberal party of Lincoln that ended slavery, is now a far-right cartoon, rife with racism.

As someone who values progressive principles infinitely higher than brand loyalty, what could I possibly owe the current center-right Democratic Party? If that party wants me back, particularly after this year's primary has vividly demonstrated that actual progressivism is viable, it needs to once again become a party that represents me.

I understand the thinking behind "First we vote and win," I really do. It's just that the current Democratic Party isn't a "we" I feel a part of.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #309)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:05 PM

318. Thanks for the thoughtful response. It's your decision. I've decided they will never drive me out.

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

I make demands in writing each and every donation solicitation I've gotten for the last eight years.

I holler and donate to individual FDR wing candidates, never to the DNC. I canvass, write encouragement toward progressive visions and vote.

I know that we really are so close to a progressive win, which is why the harping about leaving seems somehow calculated. I distrust it.

As always, I'm not leaving and I'm going to stick with my candidate Bernie 'til the end. THEN I'm still voting Democrat.

It's that very strategy that Republicans beat us with every time. I'm doing what they do because I know that they use the lesser of two evils rhetoric, and because I know that the lesser of two evils still produces more good. I'm utilitarian like that.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #318)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:08 PM

320. Likewise...and I respect your decision.

 

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Response to ancianita (Reply #241)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:02 PM

314. Then give us candidates like Sanders

 

that are actual progressives and all of us show up.

Otherwise, stop calling us children because your presumptive and pushed candidate is a neoliberal neocon New Dem.

And after the majority of American voters vote Green, socialist, libertarian, etc., these third parties will be on state ballots because they will have receive the required percentages in a national election to do so.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #314)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:35 PM

332. Threatening to not vote the party nominee is the last thing DU'ers should voice here.

I don't mean to insinuate anything personal during the most passionate voting time of the election cycle.

To my best recollection after fifty years of voting, there has been no historical evidence -- Lincoln's and FDR's wins being the two exceptions -- that progressives turn out majority votes.

At least not yet. If tens of thousands leaving the party is really a fact, and not just some media hearsay, and the American majority do vote third parties that don't win, then the loss for the country will take us all in a direction that we'll live in dread with even more.

But I rest my case on the sad fact that the majority of Americans don't vote at all, and that too many party voters conflate party unity with uniformity.

Leaving for non-viable third party voting, at this point, is leaving the FDR wing and tantamount to giving the election away to demagogues that will make this country a disrespected nation internationally.

Thanks for your explanation.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #332)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:45 PM

338. Come the end of the primaries

 

many DU'er's will stop posting, go silent, and await the all but predicted routing of Clinton in the GE by the GOP.

And the only ones to blame are those that have pushed her both in the elite establishment and her endorsers.

You are still trying to use a fear card. Don't you get it. I fear a Trump presidency no more and no less than I fear another fucking Clinton one. And I am not alone.

So we adults vote our conscience. We vote our principles and for the candidate and party that best reflects those. If it is not the D or R party then yes, it very well may be a third party.

I am voting for the FDR wing. In fact I just cast my absentee vote for Sanders here in Arizona. If Clinton wins, I am sorry you can't sell me the bullshit that she is a representative of the FDR wing of the Democratic Party. She is a founding member of the New Dem DLC. She is a firm adherent of neoliberal economic philosophy. she is a strong supporter and vice versa of the neocons including PNAC. She was so slow to 'evolve' on social issues that she reveals herself to be the center rightist that she truly is.

Our nation already is disrespected and confusing the rest of the world. What fucking liberal, like Clinton, would speak out against fair trade, universal health care, and public post secondary education for all? Instead she speaks out for Free Trade, insurance mandates, and means tested loans for all.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #338)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:15 PM

368. By no means is she an FDR Democrat. I never claimed that. I'm selling that the FDR voters need not

leave because they've "had it." We haven't had an FDR party since FDR. Now that Hillary's corporate allegiance is blatant in relation to Bernie, I'm selling that nevertheless, now's not the time to leave the winner-take-all game.

And we all know that she's no fucking liberal except relative to the Republicans.

I just cast my absentee vote for Sanders in Illinois. Yes, you're right about all the stuff that pisses us off right now. I agree with you. But more is at stake than judging her by her worst behavior. Bernie will take her concessions and compromises to task and so should we all.

I was a full donor to Obama. I've donated and voted for Bernie. In past elections I've spent a lot of time and money canvassing, flying young people to purple states and phone banking.

But I'm voting for Hillary if she's the nominee. I'm still betting that her long-constricted political work from the old days will come back into her agenda with her presidency, because the political work we've done in our formative 20's and 30's really drives much of our actions in our 60's and 70's. It's a hunch.

But we must not threaten to walk away from the General Election and let the Republicans smash the house we've built with Obama.

I'd rather err any day on the side of a bad Democratic than a good Republican president.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #368)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:56 PM

395. You are a party faithful.

 

I and so many others are not.

Sanders is the last chance at steering the Democratic Party back to the FDR/JFK/LBJ tradition progressive left. If Clinton wins the primary and then is allowed to win the GE, then it is over for the left. The GOP has moved steadily right in response to the Clintons and the New Dem coalition. That is the only way they could politically distinguish themselves from the pseudo-Republicans. If another Clinton wins, they will go further.

You think they are bad this election, wait until 2020 or 2024. Trump is ironically far more like the Clintons. He is a rather moderate & centrist conservative spewing a lot of bullshit in order to rile up the populace outside vote on the right. Cruz and Rubio are far more religiously conservative and scary really.

You are rolling the dice one way. I and so many others are rolling the dice another. It if far more important for me in a two party system for the party on the left to ACTUALLY be the party of the left. When they are not, then they are punished. Out of the ashes something new arises. History shows us this.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #395)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:06 PM

398. So you are in this to sabotage a Clinton win?

 

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #398)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:22 PM

402. Nothing I wrote even

 

remotely resembles the conclusions that you are falsely drawing.

I am in this for a Sanders win.

Go away.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #402)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:38 PM

407. I re-read your post..

 

I was mistaken. I must have been reading another post when I responded to yours. I apologize.

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Response to fun n serious (Reply #407)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:41 PM

409. No problem.

 

Mistakes can happen. Thanks for being honest and apologizing. That is appreciated.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #409)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:45 PM

412. You're welcome. nt

 

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Response to TM99 (Reply #395)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:33 AM

526. I wouldn't fight that. I simply see the FDR wing as the seed from which that leftist party grows, as

does Bernie.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #526)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:08 PM

553. Then the FDR wing must act

 

decisively this election. If they do not, then we all lose.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #338)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:29 PM

449. Have you, while bashing the dems and Clinton, paid any attention to what's happening . . .

in the repug party?

They are splitting apart as we speak, like that fiasco clown show, the one that argues penis size on national TV debates, among numerous other low lights, is going to defeat anybody.

Get real.

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Response to brush (Reply #449)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:39 PM

457. Oh, I assure you, I am very real.

 

The Democratic Party under the DLC/Third Way/New Dem leadership deserves bashing. It has put forth more Republican-lite candidates than it ever should have. DWS and the DNC under Obama is bleeding out support and losing elections at unheard of rates.

The Republican Party all but runs this country, not because of leftists like myself who want real tradition progressive candidates. No, it is solely the fault of the party elites and those who keep denying how far right this party has moved over the last 30 years.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #457)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:52 PM

460. You didn't address the question.

Do you think the party that argues penis size in their nationally televised debate is gonna beat anyone?

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Response to brush (Reply #460)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:04 PM

467. You ignored my answer.

 

They already are beating Democrats.

They control most state's legislatures and governorships. They control the House and the Senate. They will have no problem beating the wrong Democratic candidate and every problem beating the right one.

Go look at the constant polls on the subject and the right one is Sanders and the wrong one is Clinton.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #467)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:44 PM

562. As the saying goes, All Politics is Local. All eyes on Presidential election, but we are going to

have to start joining/infiltrating/whatever and and kick the DINO's out at the local and state level. That's the problem, everyone waits for someone else to do something, rather than, taking a deep breath and get involved. Get in on the ground floor because I think there are some huge changes coming forth, and you/we cannot allow those changes to be driven by the other side.

What is the saying - Change in inevitable. Change for the better is a full-time job.

There is a deep, entrenched psychosis going on in this country (especially on the other side) and those of us who haven't succumbed are 1) horrified and 2) asking how to stop it? It has us paralyzed as to the best foot - if not forward or to the left, but somewhere that gets us out of this nightmare. We've allowed ourselves to become stuck at the election of 2000 and stopped but their side hasn't.

Unfortunately, the DNC has been taken over by corporations and billionaires who are calling the shots right now. The Democratic Party has sold its soul too, just like the GOP. They throw us some table scrapes and tell us we should be happy that we have anything at all because they are "looking forward," yeah, right at their wallets and pocketbooks.

But, the DNC has the infrastructure to cement positive change/s if those billionaires are kicked out, which can only be done 2017 onward at the local level. For ill or for good, Howard Dean showed us how to do it. That infrastructure is there too.

Joining in swarms and *quietly* (no one wants to be preached to) take over. No one has to announce anything, just naturally allowed to flow towards a True Democratic Party that it once was and can and will be again.

Breaking off may be satisfying individually but it doesn't win elections.

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Response to Hestia (Reply #562)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:35 PM

573. I don't disagree that local

 

elections are just as important.

But in case you hadn't notice for the last two decades, the New Dem DLC strong DNC does not support local campaigners that run counter to their political philosophy. You either play the game, or you lose the support.

The refrain is always, change it from within. That never works.

History is replete with examples. The Catholic church was not changed from within, Martin Luther broke away. The 1830's to the 1850's with the Whigs, the Democratics and the Republicans is another example.

When an establishment becomes corrupt, the only option is to take it down. If it can't be done so from within because of the entrenched power and money, then it must be done from without.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #314)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:24 PM

444. You guys need to start your own party if you don't like the dems

Bernie joined for a reason, for the Democratic brand and it's national visibility. The Green Party, the Liberal Party, and the independants, although not a party, who ever hears of them? Which is why he joined, what, eight months ago and now all his supporters want to change everything about how it runs?

What organizations work like that? You kinda have to learn how to work all the levers of power, get on the committees, form relationships within the party — you know, spend some time in the organization to build influence. Otherwise, head out the door and start your own party.

And speaking of all those small third parties, they never do anything but during presidential cycles. You never hear of them except every four years, and you barely hear of them then. They never work to get on all 50 state ballots or run down-ticket candidates. It's always for the highest office — like that's gonna work.

But go ahead and go for with the third party. See you in four years.

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Response to brush (Reply #444)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:36 PM

453. You don't understand history.

 

Party corrections are occuring on the left this year as much as the right.

If membership declines to the point that the Democratic Party can not fund state candidates nor win any further national elections, then another party will form to take its place. Instead of petulantly denying reality, study some political history instead.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #453)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:01 PM

464. Are you serious with that?

Because that's not about to happen to the dems in the foreseeable future.

All of the people that joined the party to vote for Sanders will leave and the party will revert back to it's former size.

Those that leave can go back to being independents or start a third party and circulate petitions to try to get on ballots in all 50 states.

Good luck with that. See you in the history books, along side Ross Perot.

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Response to brush (Reply #464)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:08 PM

469. Yes, I am serious because

 

I have studied history and you obviously have not.

If history for you is Ross Perot, try again.

'Its former size' was measured at 23% of registered voters last fall. Those independents that joined took the registered Democratic voters in the US from 23% to 30% this February. If they leave once more as well as even just a few percent of the long-term Democratic voters who are sick of the direction the party is going in, good luck winning any elections with less than 1/4 of the registered electorate being identified Democrats.

Independents will decide this election not the party faithful. Keep whistling past the graveyard in denial but the facts are the facts.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #469)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:18 PM

471. If you studied history so much as you claim you have to know . . .

that process is not going to happen in one presidential cycle, not even two or three.

Additionally, all those you claim will leave the party will be replaced by the 800,000 people of color who turn 18 EVERY YEAR.

The country is browning as we speak and those people are not going to vote repug.

Now there's some history for you being made.

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Response to brush (Reply #471)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:28 PM

474. Really, please read a history book

 

about the political parties in the 1800's, in particular the 1850's.

Do you really believe that all minorities register to vote Democrat? Sorry, I had to laugh. I grew up with the black side of my family all being registered Republicans. Yes, we 'brown' people exist across the entirety of the political spectrum. Keep objectifying us as a monolith voting bloc and see how that works out for you.

By the way, Clinton lost the Millennial Latino vote in Nevada.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #474)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:39 PM

475. You're fooling yourself

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:29 AM - Edit history (1)

This is not the 1800s where it was all about how white people, white men really, voting and/or deserting a party.

It is no longer about just white people. Newsflash! People of color and women vote now.

And of those 800,000 people of color turning 18 every year, the percentage of them will follow the percentage of how many people of color vote dem now — African-Americans 90-95%, Asian-Americans 76%, Latino-Americans 71%.

And that's not even counting LGBTs and women voters who also tend to vote majority dem.

Come up to the 21st century please.

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Response to brush (Reply #475)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:44 PM

476. You are starting to embarrass yourself.

 

Please study some political science. Read a book or hell even look up on a Wiki how the parties have changed and morphed in the US.

And cut the condescension bullshit. I AM a PoC.

Now let's talk some math as you apparently have remedial understanding of it as well.

For example, in SC, Clinton got 80% of the AA vote. Voter turnout was at an all time low of 12.5%. What is 80% of 12.5%? Now extrapolate such numbers into the general election.

I am not going to waste much more time on your SJW talking points.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #476)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:06 PM

480. You're embarassing yourself

You say you're a person of color but you seem to be routing for a repug win while at the same time claiming that the Democratic Party will soon come apart because of a defection by, and let's face it, some mostly white Sanders supporters who joined only to vote for Sanders.

You also avoiided acknowledging that nearly a million people of color turn voting age every year of which at lease 70% will vote for democrats and replace those defectors who left and took their ball with them.

You didn't even mention that?

Like I said, it's not all about white people anymore as in another 20 year the country will be minority majority, and history (your favorite word it seems) tells us that people of color vote democratic by a quite large percentage.

And as for your percentages on voter turnout, the repugs had 5 and 6 candidates running, all with gotv ground games working so of course they had a higher turnout. Dems only had the two candidates.

And btw, that means little because Obama didn't win SC in 2012 and dems with any sense don't expect to in 2016. But, as history tells us, we don't need to carry SC to win the general.

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Response to brush (Reply #480)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:24 PM

484. Are you are a PoC?

 

Acknowledging the realities of the current state of the party and supporting Sanders as I do, is not 'routing for a repug win'. With that comment alone I can easily dismiss anything else you are bloviating about as it is just going to be bullshit.

You claim that there will be these numbers and they will go Democratic, yet you present no facts to back it up.

You have created a straw man as I am not arguing about minorities versus whites. You are off on your own tangent on that.

The turnout was not dependent upon the number of candidates.

And my example was only of SC. These same kinds of numbers have occurred in all of the southern states and in several of the other states who have held caucuses and primaries thus far.

I am done.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #484)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:36 PM

488. IMO if you're withholding your vote if Sanders doesn't win . . .

Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:23 AM - Edit history (1)

you might as well be rooting for the repugs.

And as far as my alleged "bloviating", just google how many people of color turn voting age every year — 800,000 is the number, give or take.

And they won't be voting repug so I doubt very much that the Democratic Party will be falling apart anytime soon as you argue.

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Response to brush (Reply #488)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:47 PM

491. So I see you didn't answer

 

the question.

Nor did you provide any facts.

Finally, I always vote. I may not vote for Clinton but I am also not voting for a Republican. If neither party produces the candidate that fits my positions and policies, then I look elsewhere to give my vote.

Isn't living in a democracy grand?

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Response to TM99 (Reply #491)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:28 AM

506. Read for yourself

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Response to brush (Reply #506)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:51 PM

551. This does not dispute my argument.

 

By the time all of these children come of age over the next 20 years, the Democratic Party of today will have been replaced by the Democratic Party of tomorrow or another party all together.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #551)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:42 PM

561. What? Did you not get the key phrase?

This is not 20 years away. This happens EVERY year.

800,000 Latino-Americans turn 18 every year, and that doesn't include the rest of the POC 18-year olds who also turn voting age every year.

The Democratic party is not going anywhere, it'll be definitely browner though, as will the country.

And what happened to your "Whig" party example who you first mentioned to bolster your argument that the Democratic party is close to disintegrating? Now you're saying that in 20 years there will be a Democratic party of tommorow. I seem to remember you saying that the party would disappear like the Whigs did.

Your argument might actually hold water with the repugs though. Now that's a party that's splitting apart.

They're scheming how to take the nomination away from Trump in a brokered convention.

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Response to brush (Reply #561)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:23 PM

572. It is happening to both parties.

 

It has been happening to Democrats for about 20 years now. It is simply reaching a point of breaking.

It is still irrelevant, and you still refuse to state whether you are a PoC or not.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #572)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:42 PM

574. Of course I'm an AA.

And despite the figures I've cited you refuse to acknowledge that the Democratic Party is not the one threatened with extinction.

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Response to brush (Reply #574)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:45 PM

575. You refuse to look at what is

 

happening right in front of your face - majority PoC voters or not.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #575)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:00 PM

583. What exactly are you talking about that's supposed to be in my face?

Before you were going on about history and the Whigs now it's non-specific who know what you mean.

Now with evidence before you showing the huge numbers of Dem voters who will come online yearly, you resort to vagueness.

Admit it, the Democratic Party is not going belly up with the fast-changing demographics of the country.

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Response to brush (Reply #583)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:12 PM

585. Sweet Jesus!

 

This whole thread is what is in front of your face.

I have been on DU but not actively posting since 2001. This is the first election season where this type of discussion has arise. This is not a small group of PUMA"s. This is dissension in the rank & file. This is being reflected everywhere, not just on DU. Open your eyes.

These 'fast-changing' demographics have been in place since the 1990's. This is not going to change what is occurring to the Party itself.

I have been anything but vague.

We are done. Have a good afternoon.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #585)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:18 PM

587. OK, OK! You cited history and Whigs but nothing close to that has happened since the 90s . . .

not to mention two terms for Obama.

Time to leave you to your unproven arguments.

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #130)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:35 PM

288. I'm one of them too

I couldn't be more disenchanted with the democratic party.

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #130)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:55 PM

416. This talking point is really tired

 

The parties are more polarized than any time since Reconstruction. It's silly to claim the party is moving to the right.

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Response to mythology (Reply #416)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:37 PM

429. Two things can travel in the same direction

 

And the distance between them still increase.

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Response to MissDeeds (Reply #130)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:22 PM

424. We are also talking about it seriously

Feel like the party is too far to the right now.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:10 PM

155. Amen....

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:53 PM

224. I'm just a lowly School district employee

So I don't have much money but I've given a little money to the DSCC and 21st Century Democrats every year. Not this year. I'm not going to leave the party because I've been in it longer than most of the DNCers and I'll be here long after them. But I'll vote for Bernie no matter who the Dems nominate.

I kind of regret that I didn't vote for Nader and I almost voted for John Anderson in 1980 because he had been against the Vietnam war and supported the Soviet Grain embargo. Now I thank God I didn't because I got the vote for the greatest living Dem President instead.

Since we ended up with Bush anyway, now I wish more had voted for Nader and the Democratic Party had learned the lesson then that it needs to learn now.

The path to victory is to the Left.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:27 PM

274. I Just Wrote A Letter To The DSCC, The DNC & The Florida State Party...

Starting with a 14 pt. Bold Red Color in all caps I started with the word ATTENTION centered on the page!

My intro was To The DEMOCRAT/DLC Third Way Party to which I after stated my reasons why I will be leaving the Party after this election. If it weren't for what's offered on the other side I would probably wouldn't have bothered. But I did want to make sure they understood that I no longer wanted to be associated with a Party that's doing everything it can to MAKE SURE Hillary will be ANOINTED.

I wanted to make sure I would NEVER receive another email, letter or any other correspondence asking for a donation. I have the letters they sent me asking for money, but I'm waiting for a little while longer to send the letter.

They've insulted my intelligence! I live in Florida and I'm told Hillary has ALREADY won here! I'm SURE it's going to happen because THEY WILL make it happen!

Am I the only one here who thinks it's strange that Bernie wins obscure states that have me scratching my head? Like OK & KS! Does it not make sense that if he can win there he surely can win other states that are considered much more Progressive? But, when The Hillary Machine goes into a state and does whatever it THEY do, she wins. All that's gone on since the Primaries have started have had some smell about them. Perhaps The Clintons KNEW NH wasn't worth fighting for, but the other states were pretty close, give or take a couple. SC was no contest, but Bernie knew that as MOST here did. Jim Clyburn shilling for Hillary could have had no other outcome. But the states that have been close, they either won by a small margin of MAYBE they really didn't win.

Regardless, NONE of it can be proved. What our Democratic Party Machine AND the Clinton Machine doesn't realize is that far too many of us are now entrenched in our suspicions. When anyone, whether it's HER or not, has this amount of suspicion surrounding their candidate it only fuels more negativity and MORE suspicion.

I know the Hillary supporters "think" this is some sort of sore loser syndrome, but too many people I know and even in my own family the anger is growing. THIS IS ANGER that has nothing to do with being a sore loser. Many of us have been part of a campaign that's lost, but generally it's accepted and we move on. So, call it what you want, but in time I believe in my heart that THIS ELECTION will have been a huge turning point for MANY, MANY of us!

I have never given a second thought to leaving the Party, and I've been a member all my life! This time when we say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I'd bet money that this time it will actually happen.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:05 PM

316. Many of us feel that way.

 

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:11 PM

419. To me with Bernie running

 

Congers the scene from The West Wing when Josh calls up Sam and all he says is "I've found him" referring to Martin Sheen's presidential role.

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Response to Qutzupalotl (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:59 PM

492. People who think this way have lost it

They suggest that they can win a presidential election without Independents.

These are the same people who mock Sanders supporters and tell us that our numbers aren't strong enough to have any effect on Clinton. When I've tried to point out that we do matter, I'm told that we're only an insignificant portion of the Democratic Party.

I read this insanity and I can hardly believe what I'm reading. I'm at the point where some of it is so batshit, that I don't even respond.

This "phenomena" will drive the Democratic party off a cliff.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:32 PM

52. Boy are you in for a rude awakening

The media is focused on the volcano happening in the Republican party.

Meanwhile, the Democratic party is dealing with it's own disaster that will be just as bad, most likely even worse.

Tectonic shifts are happening within the party. Many in the Democratic party feel that HRC does not represent their values, or the values of the Democratic party that they know--and have known for years.

I've been a Democrat my entire life. I was a volunteer for Gore, an absentee-ballot courier for Kerry, a precinct captain for Obama and I held fundraisers for Obama at our home.

I most likely will leave the Democratic party and register Independent if she is our nominee. I will consider myself politically homeless for the first time in my life.

I hold out hope that I don't have to leave. Those shifts that are happening will become apparent as this nomination process progresses. Sanders is not getting out. I am hoping that the Democratic party faithful in DC--some of the current leaders step in to stop her nomination, when it becomes apparent that her nomination is taking down the party.

There are currently some signals that this may be a possibility. I hold out hope that our party can be saved.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:57 PM

129. The way the DNC is operating, they are ensuring a republican win in 2016. n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #129)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:11 PM

156. And they're perfectly fine with that....

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Response to daleanime (Reply #156)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:39 PM

197. It's the most incredible thing. The DNC today just just another faceless corrupt and uncaring

corporation! It has little to do with "we the people" IMO.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #197)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:48 PM

220. They don't listen to "the people"

 

Why should we expect them to serve us?

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Response to daleanime (Reply #156)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:08 PM

436. Excellet Point, Dale

Yes, they will get exactly what they want, a Neocon foreign policy. There seems to be no daylight between HRC and the Neocon Project for the New American Century.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #129)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:34 PM

452. Oh, like the party that talks about penis size on tv is gonna beat anybody?

Have you paid any attention to the repugs? Now that's a party that's coming apart at the seams.

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Response to brush (Reply #452)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:15 PM

482. Americans often do not play with a full deck when they vote. Often it's driven by emotions, they

fall for the propaganda hook line and sinker! I would hope they do not vote for the R's. What a state this country is going to be in if a R is in the WH in 2016. Democrats must stick together and vote full force for whomever the democratic nominee is.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #482)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:16 PM

483. I'm with you on that.

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Response to brush (Reply #483)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:24 PM

485. This election has me very concerned. I just find it startling Trump has the following he does,

in fact, it's frightening. I'm listening to the democratic debate tonight on CNN as I type. It's so uplifting to hear two people discussing things without resorting to name calling and trash. The republicans are tarnishing the image of the US worldwide making a spectacle and fools of themselves. How, can anyone watch a republican debate and think this is good is way beyond me to comprehend.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #485)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:41 PM

489. It's heartening to read clear-heading reasoning on this board

So much of it is over-top-partisanship threatening to take their ball and go home if their candidate doesn't win.

I have to shut down now, my laptop is running out of power.

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Response to brush (Reply #489)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 10:43 PM

490. Thanks for the discussion we had!!!

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #485)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:01 PM

566. Read this to understand Drumpf supporters.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=feature%3Afixed&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

No amount of facts, figures, etc. will make a difference with his supporters. 4 little questions on parenting tells university researchers all they need to know about you politically.

The problem is people on the left can become just like them through fear. What they need is to have someone sit down, smoke a doob and give them a hug, telling them things are not that bleak, that we'll make it through all the changes just fine. It's Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns that have them in a dither and they do not know what to do about it. Their lizard brains are running their shows right now.

Drumpf's supporters don't care about the GOP platform or economic policies, just fear of the unknown.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:57 PM

131. Clinton does not represent my values. Bernie does.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:41 PM

201. You sound like me

I've been a democratic party member since I turned 18 and cast my first vote in 1988. I always voted D because it was supposed to be the liberal party. I don't feel that anymore. If Bernie is not the nominee I will for the first time be partyless and change my affliation to independent.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:05 PM

242. I have a little hope, because Sanders is not getting out.

 

Would love to hear about the "signals"!!

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:39 PM

295. I echo your feelings and your path as an active lifelong Democrat. The party has left us.

It is up to us to create our new future. I hope that doesn't mean leaving the Democratic party but if they won't follow our wishes then there is no other reasonable option.

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Response to DiehardLiberal (Reply #295)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:38 PM

455. Yep! You're right. More people in the party seem to prefer Clinton . . .

so leave and start your own party.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:17 PM

370. It has already started, CoffeeCat -- read this article about MA Dems

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2016/02/amid_trump_surge_nearly_20000_mass_voters_quit_democratic_party

Nearly 20,000 Bay State Democrats have fled the party this winter, with thousands doing so to join the Republican ranks, according to the state’s top elections official.

Secretary of State William Galvin said more than 16,300 Democrats have shed their party affiliation and become independent voters since Jan. 1, while nearly 3,500 more shifted to the MassGOP ahead of tomorrow’s “Super Tuesday” presidential primary.

Galvin called both “significant” changes that dwarf similar shifts ahead of other primary votes, including in 2000, when some Democrats flocked from the party in order to cast a vote for Sen. John McCain in the GOP primary.


While the Secretary of State of MA attributes this mass exit to the Trump phenom, I believe he is only partially correct. Sixteen thousand plus registered as Independents and 3,500 registered as Republicans.

Note the article is dated March 1. I believe that during the first few months of this campaign, many were not familiar with Sanders and his platform. This was during what I call The Big Ignore the MSM deployed against the interests of Sanders and O'Malley. So it is my belief that a part of this exit was a rebellion against the way the DNC was conducting the primary and a preemptive "no-vote" against the corporate candidate, Hillary Clinton.

Other than that, I feel the same as you on this subject. The DNC and the other players have totally destroyed their own reputations (and they didn't even bother to try to hide their maneuvers). They hold the voting public in total contempt, and we who are outraged must make a decision: what do we do about it?

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #370)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:05 PM

567. Yeah, but weren't people begged to change their party affiliation to vote against Drumpf and vote

for Cruz or Rubio, anybody, just to make sure Drumpf doesn't win?

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Response to Hestia (Reply #567)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:03 PM

570. I did not hear that but it might be true; the only fact I have is what the Secretary of State said

I have heard a rumor that some people are voting for Trump because they think Congress is a joke and it deserves someone like Trump to be its President. Seems like there might be a little retribution going on....

Sam

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:34 PM

56. I am an indy who re-registered as a Dem

only to vote for Bernie. If he is not the nominee, I will probably go indy again. I left the Dems years ago and I do not see things getting better within the party. At least not in my view.

edit - btw - my daughter, her boyfriend and a few of their friends are doing the same thing. Even my Republican sister is thinking about registering as a Dem for Bernie.

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Response to dana_b (Reply #56)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:11 PM

247. Bern or let it burn! That's almost where I'm at. n/t

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:37 PM

63. Does that make you feel better?

You don't want the votes of independents? See how well the Democratic Party does without them.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:42 PM

75. 43 percent of voters are currently independents

 

Not to be confused with the Independent party in California.

Both parties are in trouble. So if you need to tell yourself to sleep at night, by all means. Party officials, like those in CA know what happened to the GOP, not that this has stopped them from real bone headed maneuvers tough.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #75)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:59 PM

134. +1

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:43 PM

82. My 22 year old Dem registration card sits next to a lighter.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:45 PM

92. I certainly only re-registered to vote in my state's closed Dem primary.

 

There is actually a candidate I want to vote for, not just some I want to vote against. No, I'm not otherwise a Democratic Party member, in actual registration, nor in spirit. I won't be a Democrat in spirit until the party arrests and reverses its horrible slide to the right. As always, I'll vote for its candidates (when they're actual leftists), but I sure won't buy into the branding, into the "tribe."

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #92)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:25 PM

271. I've been a registered democrat for 32 years

And I'm with you. This is the first time I can vote FOR someone instead of against someone. It feels good. I don't know what ill do after this election.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:03 PM

144. I'm a lifelong Democrat and have been voting for Democrats my entire adult life.

I have been on DU over a decade. I am a proud Liberal. I will be switching to Independent after my primary. I read numerous sites and have seen lots of people stating the same. You are wrong to think the people leaving the party were never Democrats. Most of us have always been Democrats but feel the party has left us and no longer represents the values which made us Democrats in the first place.

This election has been extremely eye-opening in regards to the number of organizations and politicians who supposedly represented Progressive values but in reality don't support true progress. The Green Party better represents my values now. The first email I received from them this week was about the influx of Bernie supporters they expect if he loses the nomination. Everyone around sees this reality except the Clinton supporters.

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:12 PM

159. +1

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:46 PM

216. +2 n/t

 

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:59 PM

231. +3 nt

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:10 PM

246. +4 nt

 

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:35 PM

290. +5 ... explainer...

i can't see myself changing my party affiliation, but i completely understand and HOPE your message will get through to the party.

it's not just this election. this is just the most visible and egregious example of what's been happening in Congressional and Senate races for more than a decade. we've lost 1000 seats just since Obama took office. that reflects on the DCCC, the DSCC and the DNC. they've taken us from a party that no one could imagine being out of power in Congress, to the party that no one can imagine regaining power. and if you examine all the lost races and the failed strategies, it boils down to the same old song and dance: special interests over voters.

we can't continue like that. the party needs a wake up call, as if losing all those races wasn't enough.

*btw, i turn 50 this year. i've voted for Democrats my whole life, and beyond that, been a DEMOCRAT, in all the rah-rah sense. it stinks having to watch the party defile itself with corporate candidates that can't win votes. i'm speaking here of Congressional/Senate races. See this for more information --> http://thefloridasqueeze.com/2016/03/04/president-obama-alan-grayson-bernie-sanders-and-hillary-clinton-walk-into-a-bar-fight/


PRESIDENT OBAMA, ALAN GRAYSON, BERNIE SANDERS AND HILLARY CLINTON WALK INTO A BAR FIGHT

Scott Arceneaux needs to brush up on his platitudes, because clearly, to “disagree without being disagreeable” doesn’t mean what he thinks it means. In a statement circulated to political media, Florida Democratic Party Executive Director Arceneaux said he was “disappointed” with another statement put out by the Democratic Progressive Caucus of Florida President, Susan Smith, expressing dismay that President Obama and Vice President Biden waded into Florida’s Democratic Senatorial Primary by endorsing lifelong Republican Patrick Murphy over the progressive leader, Alan Grayson.

Showing a measure of desperation on the part of establishment politicians, the POTUS endorsement came just a day after PPP polling revealed Grayson leads Murphy by double digits—his largest yet.

Susan Smith’s statement on the endorsement reads in part, “As much as it breaks my heart to see President Obama attempt to put his thumb on the scale for Patrick Murphy, it’s even more worrisome that the president seems to have done so with bad information. Patrick Murphy has said he wants to look at cuts to Social Security, and he supported the so-called Bowles-Simpson plan that would have cut benefits for the vast majority of Social Security recipients.”

Regarding Arceneaux’s rote recitation of platitudes, Smith is doing the opposite of being disagreeable here—she’s giving the President the benefit of the doubt. In his statement Arceneaux said, “We are a big tent party with diverse views and should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.” It’s far worse to assume Obama endorsed Patrick Murphy knowing the details of his record in all its horrifying glory. In Murphy’s record you’ll find no moral center, and precious little in the way of values that any mainstream Democrat could or should find agreeable (h/t Howie Klein, read more here):

• Patrick Murphy was one of only 22 Democrats voting for a resolution condemning President Obama’s rescue of Beau Bergdahl from the Taliban.

• Every single time Boehner brought it up, Murphy voted for the Keystone XL Pipeline.

• When Alan Grayson offered a resolution challenging the constitutionality of the GOP plan to strip the President of decision-making authority for Keystone XL pipeline, Murphy was one of only 19 Democrats voted with the GOP against the resolution.

• And, Patrick Murphy was one of only 7 Democrats who voted to establish the Benghazi Committee against Hillary Clinton.


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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:52 PM

303. yep. THe party was sold to Corporatists like the Koch Bros and has been movie

in that direction ever since. I haven't lost my Democratic principles, the party has shifted so far to the right that it now represents the republican party of 50 years ago. It's shifted so far to the right that the head of the DNC thinks that 300% payday loan sharks are a good thing and is proud to say so out loud! AYFKM?

"I haven't left the party, the party has left me" isn't just talk. It's reality, it's reality, it's what has happened. Sad.

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:12 PM

322. .^that

 

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:51 PM

345. After I vote in the CT primary I will unenroll from the DEM party as well. nt

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:55 PM

348. +10 eom

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:25 PM

445. +11

My platform belongs to no party any more.

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:56 AM

510. +12

I'll be going Green too. Its a strange feeling. Proud Democrat has been part of my identity for a long time, my entire adult life like you.

The blinders are off now.

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:14 AM

515. +13 (nt)

 

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Response to ncliberal (Reply #144)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 10:21 AM

522. +14

My thoughts too.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:05 PM

147. Heh.

 

Keep whistling and post some numbers.

I've been a Democrat for going on forty years, and this cycle marks the first time I've ever seriously questioned my membership. I doubt I'm alone in that.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:33 PM

184. They were ALL in it

Where do you think they were before becoming Indy or Green? These are people who used to be in the Democratic Party but who left in disgust as the party became Republican-lite. They're coming back for Bernie but not for Hillary and more of the same corporatist policies. The DNC is blowing the best opportunity it has had for decades to grow the party.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:40 PM

200. Not true.

 

There are independents (like me) who have supported and voted for Dems their entire lives. I've had enough.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:47 PM

219. My husband has always been a registered Independent.

He has almost always voted for Democrats too (Perot in '92 being the exception). He will change his registration to vote for Sen. Sanders. Then he will likely switch back.

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Response to a la izquierda (Reply #219)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:13 PM

249. My husband also has been an independent his whole life.

Tthe majority of the time he voted D but this year is registering D to vote in the primary for Sanders. I on the other hand have been a registered D since I first voted at age 21 in 1971. This year I did not renew my DNC and when they called I told them from now on I only give directly to the candidates I want to win; in this case Strickland for Senator and Sanders for president. With all that has gone on this year my eyes have been opened. I will most probably become an independent after this. I think there will be a exodus from the D party. One of my main issues are the super-delegates (deserve more of a voice!); ridiculous debate scheduling; and DNC putting their finger on the scale to over ride the voters.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:33 PM

284. Many who voted for Reagan left the Party after the 1968 debacle.

I see that same corruption that led to the 1968 debacle destroying the Party again.

I have been a Democrat and as often as possible a grass-roots working Democrat since 1952. I missed voting in one local election and during years when I was not living in this country. Other than that, I have been a solid Democrat.

But I am sick of the corruption that Hillary represents.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:34 PM

285. You are absolutely right!

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:53 PM

306. Makes no difference, they won't vote for her and she won't win without independent votes

Half of Democrats think she's a crook.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:15 PM

324. I know a lifelong Dem

 

That's already voted for Sanders. I understand she's in the process of re-registering as a Green. She tells me it's not an empty gesture, rather she no longer wants to be associated with the party. She was in it, not only as a committee member but an activist.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:53 PM

414. You can buy this:

I joined the Democratic Party in 1967 when I was old enough, but handed out leaflets for JFK in 1960. I have voted or Caucused in every election and Primary since then, always voting the straight Democratic ticket in the General Elections.

I have stuffed envelopes, distributed signs and stickers, burned shoe leather canvassing, worn out my dialing finger, and donated far beyond my means.
With a Hillary nomination, that all ends.

I can't even recognize the party I joined in 1967, neither would FDR, HST, Dwight Eisenhower (Republican FAR to The Left of Hillary), or LBJ.
THAT Working Class Party is GONE.

No, I don't believe the Party will miss piddly little vote.
By its actions, the Party has demonstrated over the last 35 years that it doesn't care about my dirty hands Working Class Butt.


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Response to bvar22 (Reply #414)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:15 PM

438. So with you, Bvar

Yes, sadly, this is what it has come down to for me.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:54 PM

461. He was never in it either.

At least until he kicked off his campaign.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:59 AM

505. Bingo, frazzled. What a stupid gesture to announce one is "leaving" a party one has never been in.nt

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:26 AM

537. I'm a registered democrat...

 

and have been since the day I turned 18. I've voted for the dem nominee in every election. Even every down ticket vote and even every midterm.

At 43, I'm changing my registration to Independent after this primary. Heck I've already caucused in my state. The first chance I get to change my affiliation I will.

You're welcome to explain that one.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:28 AM

539. So you don't think the Democratic Party needs to grow?

That is pretty short-sighted, IMO.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #539)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 11:34 AM

542. I don't think it needs to shrink

I might predict that large numbers of African American voters who are reliable voters would stay at home if Sanders should be the nominee on the ticket in November (which isn't going to happen, but IF). Especially after last night's incredibly leaden, insulting gaffe displaying his complete misunderstanding of black Americans in the 21st century.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #542)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:03 PM

546. Just out of curiosity,

What "incredibly leaden, insulting gaffe displaying his complete misunderstanding of black Americans in the 21st century." I didn't watch the debate.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #546)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:21 PM

550. I think it's all over the Internet and in the news, but here

It might come as a surprise to Sanders, but not all black people live in ghettos (a term that hasn't been used much since the 80s, btw), and 72% of them do not live in poverty. (While a whole lot of white people do). And please, don't say "what's wrong with that?"

3. Sanders once again seemed oblivious on racial issues.
The biggest gaffe of the night was his response to a pretty straightforward question: “What racial blind spots do you have?”
His answer showed he has plenty. "When you are white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor, you don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you are walking down a street or dragged out of a car," Sanders said.
This, of course, suggests that there are not poor whites and non-poor African Americans. It shows the degree to which the democratic socialist views everything through a class-based lens.
African American voters accounted for 23 percent of the Democratic electorate in Michigan in the 2008 primary. He’s already trailing badly among this constituency, and talking about “the ghetto” is not going to help close the gap.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/category/the-daily-202/?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_daily202

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Response to frazzled (Reply #550)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:50 PM

564. This pretty much proves that when you are looking for something to complain about

You'll find something to complain about.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #564)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:27 PM

568. +1! n/t

 

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Response to frazzled (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 07:54 PM

627. I am a dem, voted D for over 40 years. IF Hillary gets the nom I will switch to Indie

The DLC/ThirdWay have dragged the Dems so far right that they are really the moderate Rs of my youth.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:15 PM

2. IBTL, and

her supporters really think she can make it on her own.

Without Sanders supporters, she can't.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:16 PM

4. You're 100% correct

 

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:16 PM

5. It's stunning that the Democratic party has come to this. I say that as a lifelong Democrat

who had left the party, returned to caucus for Bernie and left the day after. It wasn't a protest on my behalf, Bernie won Colorado. The democratic party just doesn't represent my values.

I won't do the lesser of two evils, I won't vote out of fear again.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:01 PM

137. The only reason I remain registered D is to keep the republicans from banging on my door. If you're

independent, the republicans come a knocking. UGH!

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #137)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:52 PM

223. We have Unaffiliated. Since I switched I haven't received a call, mail or anything.

I switched after Dimon was whipping votes for the Omnibus bill, when Bernie announced I switched back to democrat so I could caucus for him, during that time I got stuff from the democratic party. I imagine that will stop now.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:09 PM

152. You represent what so many are saying

You are definitely not alone. This is not uncommon.

Who are the leaders in our party who will address this? Because it needs to be addressed.

Is the entire party, led by the utter failure Debbie Wasserman Schultz, going to remain in denial until it's too late?

I've got friends who have been lifelong Democrats who will not vote for Clinton under any circumstances. We all agree that the reasons that we didn't like her in 2008, and went for Obama--only worsened.

She's been endorsed by the founder of PNAC, Robert Kagan--for the love of God. Kagan was one of her foreign-policy advisers while she was SOS. Her Wall Street connections are utterly indefensible.

I still have faith. I think some of the Democratic party apparatus are starting to understand that this is real.

One person does not define the Democratic party. I never left the Democratic party. I'm still here, with the same values and political beliefs that I had three decades ago--when I cast my first vote!

Running an out-of-the closet neocon and Wall Street kow tower is not in line with me, or the base of the party.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #152)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:09 PM

418. And the sooner the establishment recognizes this the better.

If they continue to be pushed by the Clinton machine they are only helping her pull the party to pieces.

Our youth are our future and they do not want what she is selling.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:17 PM

6. So... vote for Bernie or we quit?

 

Anyone who refuses to vote for Hillary int he GE is a moron.

The same would hold true for anyone who would refuse to support Bernie is he got the nom.

I swear to Jeebus. It's like dealing with a kid who refuses to eat if they can't eat pizza.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:19 PM

10. Cute let's call people names

 

That will certainly get those Sanders supporters to vote even more for Hillary.
No, it's like dealing with this when it comes to corporate Dems & how you want things to change. A total car wreck.





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Response to pinebox (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:22 PM

21. It's pretty simple really.

 

The Democrat or the Republican will be the next President. If you do not vote for the one, you are effectively supporting the other.

Yup, I think if someone refuses to support the Democrat in this election, they are a moron. I make no apology for that.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:37 PM

64. Then perhaps offer up a candidate who actually fires up the base

 

Unless you want Gore.
You can't expect people to vote for a candidate who they overwhelmingly see as distrustful and who has an enthusiasm problem

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Response to pinebox (Reply #64)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:42 PM

296. Judging from the popular vote that candidate is not Bernie

it was a fatal misjudgment to place his hopes on a group that historically votes in low numbers.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #296)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:17 AM

498. You mean that group that helped get Obama elected?

 

Ya those guys

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Response to pinebox (Reply #498)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:52 AM

509. The group that is now not voting for Bernie

Looks like they have returned to their usual behavior.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #64)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:25 AM

495. Why does the "base" need to be titillated into voting? They need to please GROW UP!

 

We have the chance to elect first the woman president who is brilliant, PROGRESSIVE, and will take the fight to the very guts of the R's. What do you want to do, have Frankentrump as President? Seriously, people who WHINE and MOAN like spoiled little brats because they didn't get their first choice need to return to kindergarten.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #495)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 02:19 AM

499. Quit the history rewrite. Hillary is as progressive as Reagan.

 

Period.
Full stop.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #499)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:55 PM

580. +1

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #495)

Mon Mar 7, 2016, 04:04 AM

507. +1

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:43 PM

85. Proud moron here!

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:47 PM

95. What is really pretty simple, really

Is the possible choice between a republican who calls themself a republican and one who doesn't.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #95)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:42 PM

208. Yup.

If Donald Trump wins the presidency over Hillary Clinton, it's not the fault of people like me who won't vote for Republicans. It's the fault of the Democratic Party for nominating a Republican.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #95)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:58 PM

230. Anyone who thinks Clinton is the same as Cruz or Trump is a moron. NT

 

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #230)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:18 PM

256. We just can't be sure about Hillary. Can't be sure. She says a lot of things. All over the map.

Back and forth. In and out. Off and on. Up is down and down is up.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:13 PM

250. Moron, really? Come on you can do better than that!

Why I and my kind have been called Fucking Retards by one of your kind and the best you can do is moron? Don't you want to emulate your mentor Rahm?

But don't despair too much, because of you and others like you I will again leave the Democratic party after the New York primary. Thanks for helping me make that decision.

As for the general election? I will vote for the most liberal candidate available; do you think that will be Hillary?

Keep up your "Party before Country" attitude and see how long your party lasts.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:34 PM

451. +1.

Of course, the response you'll get to that is "But but but if the Democrat isn't Bernie, then eff yew!"

I think it's funny that people complaining when you raise arguments about maturity end up effectively doubling down on an immature outlook.

I'm voting for the Democratic nominee. Whosoever he or she may be. Even if it's not my first choice.

I'm not going to "take my ball and go home."

I'm going to take my ball and whip it at GOP knees, and hopefully I will help to kneecap them.

They need to be cut off at the pass. I will lead and follow, but I won't get outta the way.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:20 PM

14. Precisely.

Yeah HRC ain't my favorite but I ain't gonna vote for one of them other idiots just cuz Bernie isn't the nominee. That would be stupid.

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Response to ghostsinthemachine (Reply #14)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:23 PM

26. Thanks. I feel the same way.

 

Bernie isn't my first choice, but I would vote for him in a heart beat.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:23 PM

24. +1000

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:36 PM

62. This one refused to vote for Hillary in the GE is he a moron?

In fact, the documents released today show a meeting that Hillary chaired at the White House on November 10, 1993 where she promoted the passage of NAFTA to 120 people. Reports are coming out in every news agency pointing out the contradictions between her stated positions since announcing her bid for the Presidency and everything before that.

One of the things you would expect of someone who really has good experience and judgment is that they can articulate a basic set of principles and positions on issues that they can run on and defend and that stay relatively static. I'm not saying you have to stick to them in the face of overwhelming evidence that one of your positions has been proven to be wrong, like George W. Bush does, even someone who has good experience and judgment occasionally changes their mind. That is not what we have with Hillary. Hillary gives a different opinion on the same subjects every couple of weeks depending on her audience and what she thinks it will net her. As evidence of this is now coming out and is going to be presented to the American people in the starkest terms, how can one be expected to trust her to do anything that she says she is going to do? How can one really know what she believes or intends to do about anything? The only things Hillary's experience seems to be good for is perfecting how to talk out of both sides of her mouth, engaging in the politics of personal destruction and other aspects of her ruthless pursuit of power that remind one of what a Karl Rove might do. That kind of person ought not to be the Democratic

This link is in my favorites because I find the authors opinion astute regarding her constantly changing, and her Karl Rove nature.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #62)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:59 PM

232. He was then. He's wised up since then. NT

 

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #232)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:16 PM

252. Like with a cloth or something

No, he just took on her traits and penchant for reversal of beliefs depending on the weather.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:43 PM

83. Why is it moronic? We get center-right Hillary or far-right Cruz or Trump.

 

Either way it will be too late for most of us.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #83)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:00 PM

234. It's moronic because.....

 

as even Bernie says, on her WORST day, Clinton is a million times better than either of those guys.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:46 PM

93. Wow, did you miss the mark.

You sound like someone who sees someone on a hunger strike and assumes its because he can't get a vegan entrée.

Try looking just a little bit deeper, maybe.

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Response to eggplant (Reply #93)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:02 PM

239. Here's the thing....

 

Either the Dem or the Rep is going to be President. However "deep" you wanna go, that's the reality. And that reality will have actual consequences.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #239)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:58 PM

351. It doesn't excuse your offensive statement.

"It's like dealing with a kid who refuses to eat if they can't eat pizza."

It's nothing like that, and if you persist in claiming that it is, you serve only to drive a wedge further between the groups you are exhorting to come together to defeat a common foe.

Until you acknowledge the legitimacy of the issues concerning Sanders supporters, you remain part of the problem, not the solution. We aren't whiny kids, we have real grievances, and there are enough of us to be take seriously. Denigrating us only makes us more resolute.

Just because we don't agree with your position doesn't mean we didn't understand it the first hundred times it was explained. And you are right, there are consequences. Clinton would have a much harder time in the GE than Sanders. Maybe you would be better off conceding that point, and getting behind the stronger candidate.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:49 PM

105. I salute your astute observation.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:56 PM

126. Got the analogy wrong

 

More like a kid who refuses to eat YOUR food because you POISONED him too many times before so he's not falling for that stuff again.

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Response to pdsimdars (Reply #126)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:03 PM

240. LOL, another ridiculous post.

 

You will have TWO choices. Whatever happens, ONE of them will be President.

You can choose to participate in reality or not.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #240)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:43 PM

337. Which reality does Hillary represent?

 

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time” Harry S Truman

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Response to The Far Left (Reply #337)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 01:45 PM

610. Depends, what direction is the wind blowing in? nt

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:05 PM

148. I guess there will be lots or morons out there.

Because Clinton does not represent the best interests, particularly the economic ones, of myself, my family or I believe the American people. She represents the interests of Wall Street and the MIC.

I honestly don't believe she cares for people like me at all. So, you know, the Dem party may suffer a very rude awakening. This WHOLE election cycle is a popular protest against the establishment, and if the Dems run a candidate perceived as an establishment candidate, that candidate will lose.

Personally, though I haven't come to a FINAL decision yet, I will tell you that I'm fucking sick of voting for the Third Way establishment Democratic candidate, because, "Hey, look, they suck LESS than the Republican." I'm so sick of it that I may not be able to do it this time. And I certainly PROMISE, whatever my decision is this time around, that I will NEVER do it in future. I'm about this close to re-registering as an Independent and saying 'fuck you and farewell' to the Democratic Party.

The sad truth is that I never really 'left' the Democratic party. It 'left' me by moving so far right.

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #148)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:41 PM

205. The morons are the one voting for a closet republican.

 

Real progressives are voting for Bernie. Join us, or you destroy the party and get Herr Drumpf!

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:14 PM

162. This is one HUGE Bernie supporter

 

who will vote for HRC if need be, because I want SS, Medicare, Obamacare and a progressive supreme Court and am unwilling to give those things up just because I got my feelings hurt.

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Response to elmac (Reply #162)

Tue Mar 8, 2016, 01:46 PM

611. I'll vote Hillary in the GE if it absolutely comes down to that point

I'll be drunk as fuck and staggering to the mailbox to send off my ballot, but it'll happen. Then, when I've had a chance to sleep off the whiskey, I'm figuring out how to change my affiliation via mail in Texas.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:38 PM

195. 'Anyone who refuses to vote for Hillary int he GE is a moron.'

Such a reasoned an well though out argument.

Thank you for your opinion, now you can go back to eating your paste.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:47 PM

217. Wrong.

 

Anyone who votes for Hillary is a moron.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:01 PM

236. It's a protest thing. You don't have to be a registered democrat to vote in the GE

I swear to Jeebus people should read the article. They are not advocating not voting in the GE it's a protest to attempt change things inside the Democratic party. It is a movement to say goodbye to the Democratic National Committee.

If we the people of the Democratic party were to join forces and get 5 million or 10 million people to leave enmasse and go to a NEW better party, even if we vote democratic in the generals, and switch back for the next primary season, if we were to do that before the Super Delegates cast their vote, they would be a LOT more hesitant to go against us. When the DNC sees that Debbie Wash-her-shitz single handedly caused a mass exodus from the party, and that she and Hillary Clinton are dividing this party, NOT uniting it, then and only then can we truly get change inside the Democratic party.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #236)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:05 PM

243. Wanna make a change in the party? Participate!

 

My local party had been taken over by self-interested local business types. They traded offices and favors back and forth. One group said they were going to form an alternate party, which failed utterly. Another (mine) decided to get involved. We threw the bums out. It works. Get involved in your local party.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #243)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:20 PM

261. I have for over 40 years. nt

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:25 PM

269. I think of it more like dealing with a kid

 

who is told they need to drink some water - and then is given a choice of Flint water or fracking water to drink.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 03:50 PM

301. It's like dealing with a kid who refuses to eat if they can't eat pizza.

Sounds like Ghandi, and just look where that got him

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 04:06 PM

319. Condescension

and name-calling is NOT going to change the fact that thousands of registered Democrats DO NOT LIKE AND WILL NOT VOTE for Hi11ary.

Your rudeness about Bernie supporters will not change this grim reality about a woman whose integrity has long been compromised by her love of money.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:17 PM

7. I am only one

But I have been registered Dem most of my adult life and I will be changing to Ind the day after our primary.

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:20 PM

13. Many are following in your footsteps

 

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:41 PM

68. Me too

 

We have mail in here and have to be Dem to vote for Bernie,I will drop my ballot into the mail and log on and change my affiliation 5 mins later

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:45 PM

214. I wish I could do that, because I would!

 

But in Wisconsin we don't need to register an affiliation, we can vote for whomever we want. I've been voting Dem for over 40 years, but I just may have to vote Green next time.

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 05:07 PM

357. Same. Changing to unaffiliated. nt

 

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Response to oldandhappy (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 08:24 PM

443. Me too.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:17 PM

8. I won't do it ... not yet anyway.

 

We'll see how many more dirty tricks are pulled between now and July.

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Response to pinebox (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:20 PM

11. I don't think that's a very good idea

 

Looks too much like a temper tantrum.And don't want trump.

Though I do favor somehow using the leverage of all of the enthusiasm Sanders has generated to send a clear message over time

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Response to Armstead (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:21 PM

19. A temper tantrum?

 

Nawwwww people are sick and tired of this and you know what, they should be.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #19)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:27 PM

36. Wow. And Walmart is in the tank for Hillary, too.

 

Figures.

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Response to pinebox (Reply #19)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:47 PM

97. I'm sick of that kind of crap too

 

But I want the ideas and energy that Sanders has generated to have a longer term effect

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511425305

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Response to Armstead (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:23 PM

27. +1

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #27)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:29 PM

44. Aw...hoping to limit the damage done by your candidate?

 

Should have thought about that.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:35 PM

57. I see it as a difinitive line drawn in sand -

no more-more of the same.
I believe they actually Mean it this time-again-but the benefactors from decades of those voters "getting in line" (Enabling the corruption) at the last minute-holding noses and voting Against the Worst candidate-instead of For the Best candidate....should not be ignoring, demeaning, insulting and demoralizing these voters (again). Especially post 900+ Dem Seats lost Nationally. Can't "they see the handwriting on the wall? Do they even Care who wins cuz it's All for Corp now????
LOW Turnout in 2010 has thoroughly fucked up our very democracy.
Don't underestimate the Anger (again) from those who are That Pissed OFF. They - after-all Drew that Line in the Sand in 2010 which gave is the Tea Party controlled government...you believe their afraid Now?

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Response to fredamae (Reply #57)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:41 PM

71. and the Millenials arent inclined to listen to threats

I know, I live with a couple.

If you tell them to "get in line", they may offer you a certain finger and walk out the door.

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Response to dana_b (Reply #71)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:39 PM

199. Good for them -

This Boomer stands (and walks out-middle finger extended) with them
I have 4 voting millennial grandkids - they also agree.

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Response to fredamae (Reply #57)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 01:50 PM

106. I agree....We Do have to draw a line in the sand.

 

I just don't think the symbolism of that act would make a difference.

It would end up with blowback against real reform like the was after 2000 and the "Blame Nader" sentiment.

I want them to take it seriously instead of just gioving them an excuse to blow it off and "Blame Bernie"

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Response to Armstead (Reply #106)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:47 PM

218. I'm sure they'll try-but I doubt that'll

work again.
Politicians really need to toss the old playbook(s). Nothing is the same. New electoral his