Boomers, yes us older folks, how long have you gone along with hopes of change ...

[slipslidingaway]

and how many years will we continue to Hope and vote for change?

For me it has been 40 plus years.

I do not have an answer, it is a complicated issue, should we always believe in hope for the future and perpetuate the game?

When should we say enough is enough, or do we just die saying we voted for 'the lesser of two evils?'

When do we say we will no longer be willing participants in the games of those who control wealth and power? Do we just put that in our will?

We are very lucky, our children have grown up realizing that someone being different, whether it be race, religion, gender or sexual orientation plays a less important role than the person and what they do each day.

Should we encourage our children to go along with the lesser of two evils as we have done for decades?

Complicated issues, seeing as we have not seen any progress for most people I will encourage my kids to 'shoot for the moon' so to speak. There are times to remain silent and there are times to strive for something better, this is not a time to be timid.

[840high]

1. My first vote was for JFK - that's

how long. I've had it.

[slipslidingaway]

4. I vaquely remember McGovern and then Carter ...

but we are sucked into 'my team' mentality and go along, but for how long?

Many our of friends have had it as well, they are done going along.

[840high]

18. Good. Nothing will change if we keep

going along. After the election I'm switching to Independent.

[slipslidingaway]

30. Here too, will change after the election ...

the system keeps people sucked into their team until we expire, literally!



CNN announces Sanders winner as I type!

[RKP5637]

26. Yep, I've been listening to the SOS since than, always hoping, always being told there

is hope and then it's the SOS again. And the horrific DLC and that damn herd. Some days I do wonder just WTF party I am in anymore. I've just gotten totally disgusted with it all.

[slipslidingaway]

32. Some days I wonder as well as they never seem to really fight for anything ...

latest example was the HC bill and all the concessions that were made by the Dem party.

[RKP5637]

37. The dems had a real chance in 2008 to change things. Dem President and Dem Congress and they totally

blew it. So we get fed, for one example, this HC we're all supposed to think is great. Many democrats today sound more like republicans than the old time democrats even remotely did. Also, we have these ridiculous trade agreements we're supposed to think are great. All I've ever seen is good jobs fleeing the country. Frankly, I am so F'en fed up with it all.

[slipslidingaway]

50. I agree that they Totally blew it!!! I was so disappointed, HC is such a large factor, not only for,

the finances of many households, but this issue that drains people and drags them down eventually will hurt our country at some point.

Happy to see the trade deals are getting some attention.

Sometimes fed up and sometimes ready to fight.

[dchill]

2. Bernie. Then that's it.

[slipslidingaway]

5. After that, they are on their own ...

so many in our generation are done with this game.

[silvershadow]

3. I was told, in some DU hate mail today,

then I should have left the party years ago. It had to do with my discussion earlier of being a labor Democrat. PS: it was by someone who has been here since 2006.

[slipslidingaway]

6. There really is a disconnect between the young, old and then those in the middle ....

as my daughter told me last month she could easily move to another country if it came to that. After a move to Florida from the NE as an internal medicine doc she registered as Dem last month to vote for Sanders, she will do fine whether here or in another country.

The Dem party has, IMHO, made a big mistake discounting people, we are not puppets.

[Fuddnik]

10. I too, am a former union officer (railroad). First voted in 1972.

Been a life-long Democrat, and never voted Republican. It's been going downhill for at least 40 years.

I did leave the party in 2007 after the party broke every campaign promise they made in 2006, and had majorities in both houses. I came back as soon as Bernie announced (Florida has closed primaries). And I'll probably leave again in August after I vote for Alan Grayson.

I'm sick and tired of voting for, "not as bad".

Like the poster above said, after this election, they're on their own. If they choose to elect a candidate that is salivating to screw them, and let Wall Street, Free Trade, Big Oil, Big Pharma, and the prison industrial complex run rampant, let 'em have it. I don't have that much time left, anyway.

[silvershadow]

16. I am sorry. That is all I can say. Thank you for your story, for your union participation,

and for coming back, at least temporarily. Sadly, I understand.

[slipslidingaway]

33. Feeling the same way, will need to hand the torch over to our children ...

before I die I would like to vote FOR someone.

[kath]

14. Please report hateful PMs to the administrators.

People have been banned if their personal screeds are too hateful and/or too numerous.
Sunshine is a good disinfectant. And along those lines, people have posted nasty PMs that they have received, so that they can be seen by all. Contrary to popular opinion, it is NOT a TOS violation to call someone out for their nasty, over-the-top PMs.

[silvershadow]

15. Thank you. I may just do that. nt

[840high]

20. Unacceptable. Show it - people

who do this need to be exposed.

[slipslidingaway]

35. Hope you did report the hate mail to the admins, that is not acceptable! nt

[DLnyc]

7. Trying to make the world a better place keeps me young

I will no more give that up than I will give up breathing . . . until my time comes to set them both aside.

[slipslidingaway]

36. There is a fine line between fighting and becoming a second class citizen ...

my father was a proud Marine in WW II, years later I learned that he offered my male cousins help if they wanted to avoid the draft for the Vietnam war.

Fine lines.

[pat_k]

8. It needs to be about more than hoping and voting.

I was born in 1960, which I think counts as being on the cusp of the baby boom generation.

I don't think we can ever leave politics to the folks inside the beltway. Getting people who support the things I think need supporting elected is just part of the process. I don't pin my hopes on them getting anything done on their own. They need people on the ground to push/support them. Ultimately, I pin my hopes on us.

As a wise friend used to say, we don't need a movement. More of us just need to move. Get involved.

Do I get discouraged? You betcha. Except for voting, I haven't been truly active for a number of years. But when I get out there and work with others, my hope is naturally renewed. In the process, I encounter other people and groups who are out there tackling problems that seem overwhelming... and winning. It's almost impossible to feel hopeless when you witness people in action first hand.

Imagine if we had just 500 citizen lobbyists in each congressional district pestering members of Congress (or staffers) face-to-face, gathering names on petitions, raising money, working on Congressional elections, and so on. That's a mere 0.3% of people who turnout to vote for candidates in the middle or left side of the current (incredible skewed to the right) spectrum. (That's assuming an average district size of 700,000; 75% over 18; 60% voter turnout, and about 50% of those in the middle or left side of the spectrum).

With the support of small contributions, these folks could be paid to work full time on our behalf. We could create a formidable "K street" operation of our own.

Corporate America may have the money, but people on the ground translate to money and power too. I think too many don't believe this right now, but can be "brought around" if we focus on instilling confidence in our own power to effect change.

Putting a leader like Bernie in the White House would be fantastic. But we have to be willing take up the fight on our own if we can't make that happen. One of my fondest wishes is that, regardless of the outcome, people who have been inspired to take action by Bernie's campaign, will be inspired to continue the fight for what he stands for after the campaign is over. Even if he's elected, he can't get the things he wants to get done, done, without a lot of help from "out here."

[slipslidingaway]

38. Your post is so important, we cannot give up, and that is what Sanders has been advocating ...

the revolution of involvement is just beginning.

Thanks!

[beltanefauve]

62. Also 1960 here

This would be a good OP on it's own.

[pat_k]

63. Thanks for the suggestion!

I'll think about it (making an OP). Thanks!

[Dragonfli]

9. By posting here, BUT MOSTLY RECENTLY ELSEWHERE, I have come to realize I am completely irrelevant

When I write passionately about the most important of topics, (topics you begin to touch on now) those writings are ignored in favor of repetitive nonsense. I am not a sports writer, and this is no sport.

To answer your question I have gone what seems an eternity without the hope of change, I watch my own generation treat this as a game or sport rather than the life and death it truly represents on a global scale.

I believe much of the reason is that us older generations are more concerned with temporary comfort, most of which those that post here and elsewhere already have, so it becomes a sport, a way to pass time and it is entirely up to millennials to survive a future that without our generation taking a more serious role than it does, they simply will not have, as they will become extinct.

It is not critical to most of us because our time is nearly up anyway, and so we pontificate and occasionally say the right things but do little else but play the game of politics as if it were a sport and not a matter of the survival of our collective grandchildren and even a large portion of our collective children. Our generation does not understand the nature of the urgency for those that are coming up behind us.

I DO, but I believe now more than ever it is because of a sort of madness. I am a realist/masochist hybrid of some unhealthy sort.

I realize now that my time has past, and the millennials are all that stand between them and their own destruction and the destruction of a life sustaining biosphere that we have all but destroyed and are doing nothing to repair.

The Earth is by no means doomed, but much of the life residing on it's loving soil are, including our own species.

I will not go into how writing about this was completely ignored on another site in favor of political sports like nonsense by comfortable people middle aged and upwards as thread after thread some of which were mere jokes passed the topic by and sent the final of a dozen outright unspoken messages that my concerns and writing are not wanted and do not belong there.

But I can reproduce the text of that message for you in the interests of context, because I wrote it here as well, also ignored (although the OP itself dealing with only a small portion was well received, I believe it was only because it spoke unkindly of Hillary and the DNC and I believe for no reason other reason than that), those unkind words were not slanderous but true and I stand by them, but the most important thing I wrote on that thread was ignored here as well as a place I believed was a more progressive stronghold than the current DU. Here as promised for the required context is the post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511420787#post87

Good luck with your OP, perhaps it will help in the battle, actually the revolution, that is needed by the younger generations if it has any chance of survival

Also goodbye to most all of you for now, I may lurk rarely, but my lack of relevance here and elsewhere tells me my posting days are largely over as I lack an audience to recieve my mad ravings, perhaps rightly so

[marions ghost]

19. You got a lot of recs and some good responses

in that other post. Keep writing. Needs to be said.

[slipslidingaway]

28. DU was more progressive years ago ...

and I thank many people here who have posted over the years.

You are one of those people!

[Dragonfli]

49. I miss those times, back then, you and I would hardly be called among the most progressive here

But now I suppose we are.

We used to represent pretty much the average, it saddens me what has happened here. Not just the ever growing Neo-Liberal influence, but the lack of the extremely intelligent and thought provoking posts that were the norm only a decade ago.

The conversations were so intelligent and in depth (and yes much more progressive), that I was little more than a K&R wallflower, as I felt most inadequate to the best of the posters; many of which have either drifted away or been driven off of this site.

When I do actually post something approaching halfway as good as the OPs that once were proliferate here, they are largely ignored or responded to by people that post as if they lack even the most basic knowledge of either politics, or what the party stood for before the Reagan Democrats took over and changed it into the mostly Republican (with a few social modifiers) that it has morphed into..

[slipslidingaway]

53. I miss those times as well and I have to LOL at your comment as I was much more mainstream back then

but some good people on DU helped to open my eyes a little more ... we're radicals now

Unfortunately too many forward thinking people left DU, but there are still some old time favorites and very happy to see they support the 'right candidate.'

So we'll have a balance and speak up when we feel something is wrong, but also will seek out other channels and not get too upset by what goes on here.

It is a good night for those not always willing to go along, no matter the ultimate outcome.

[Dragonfli]

65. We Have Been Radicalized!!! Oh my!

Surely the Secret Service, FBI, and NSA are soon to knock on our dangerous doors harboring such Radicals! LOL

[slipslidingaway]

69. Just read your radical rant from this morning ...

and also saw that someone alerted. That would have never happened on DU ten plus years ago, of course there were not juries back then so it would have been left up to the mods.

[Dragonfli]

71. Well some jury had to try to protect the DU public from my scary radical views!

I wonder what the Mods would have done back then? I think they would have not only let it stand but would have posted in it as well, but that is just a guess.

[slipslidingaway]

73. I saw the results and that is heartening :) I think the mods would have let it stand as well ...

we have come so far???

But we will move forward.

[lunasun]

61. remain a voice here if you can

[Dragonfli]

64. I may consider it, but you must realize

I post very few OPs for a reason and my long posts (also few) for the same reasons.

I spend a great deal of time, thinking and researching first, then the hard part comes - I pour my heart and soul into them in order to reach people on a level that will actually make them reexamine what I am posting, making them actually feel what others feel or desperately need. There is a certain urgency regarding them that drives the writing of them.

When, as it appears is most of the time, it falls on only deaf ears or those whom have already reached that point and do not need my words to help them to see. It takes a toll on me, a very great toll, meanwhile, I watch posts full of misinformation or meaningless rhetoric that say in essence nothing at all receive the eyes, ears and souls of those I fail to reach and so I feel useless, obsolete and very much so, irrelevant.

I don't mind if one disagrees in part or in full the premise or presentation I use in those OPs; if they at least show me the honor of doing so intelligently and do so with as much from their hearts and souls as I, in fact, I learn oft-times from such exchanges, where my thoughts are a bit off or even fully mistaken - challenging me to rethink and re-examine within my heart that produced the writing being challenged and my mind that conceives them.

Lately, I feel very much irrelevant. I have tried to explain to you why.
That no one was reached by, or even felt anything from this post, as it received not even a single reply, Something inside me simply cemented the feeling of my new found irrelevance.

[Dragonfli]

66. I decided that I still had a good OP left in me, For now my voice can be heard once more

I hope you enjoy it, I decided to post it largely because you asked me, and rather nicely and so decided perhaps there is at least one set of eyes left willing to read my rumination, conclusions and opinions.

Thanks for that, Judging form the response, I may yet hold some relevance to those that want my voice, as rare and humble as it may be.

Here I posted it for you, but it is about things that I dig the deepest to find, the things I feel most passionate about my people, my lower class and My experience:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511460602

[lunasun]

67. I will add I dont always bother to rec or reply even though i like what I am reading

So you may not really know how many people, how many sets of eyes, are on your postings.
Hope that doesn't sound stalker like

[islandmkl]

11. first vote was McGovern, they had just lowered the age so I missed '68...

grew up in a Democratic Party household in Kansas...still have LBJ stickers and buttons from my parents working the Democratic Party's storefront in '64...

Eisenhower was from Kansas and my dad always said, 'He's about the only goddam Republican I have ever seen that could have been a Democrat."

1968 was bad for the Party and it didn't fix anything...and here we are in the result of that long journey to rediscover Democratic Party ideals....

Jesus, as flawed as LBJ was he would be a breath of fresh life-giving air to the party today...the Third Way/DLC crew would be in the Republican Party where they belong and we would at least have leadership fighting for what the Democratic Party always stood for...

FDR, Truman, JFK, RFK, LBJ, McGovern, Carter...then it all changed...we lost, then we got 'corrected' to be like the victors, and now we are barely noticeable...

barely, but there is a light and a voice and more and more people are seeing and hearing them...

we can bring the Party back...but the resistance of the Third Way and those who never knew what the Party stood for is strong...

on the other hand...the Republican Party will soon be looking for, and happy to receive, any new recruits to their right-center-right ways...

[slipslidingaway]

39. There is a renewed interest among the millennials and we can only hope they remain engaged ...

enough to change things for the better. Unfortunately they are looking more closely into the eyes of climate change and limited resources, but they also have social media to help motivate people.

Guess our mission is to guide them as best we can, we have had this discussion with our children that Sanders is the first candidate in decades that we Support.

[Orsino]

12. Voting is only one piece of the puzzle.

If we are not lobbying our leaders before and during their times in office, we aren't doing our jobs.

Canvass for the best candidates, but don't relax after the election. Big Money is working against us 24/7, so we must be tireless, too.

[slipslidingaway]

40. Remember when you joined DU? There were always threads about bills that were coming up ...

for a vote, that people remain involved and urged people to take party in calling their elected officials.

Once upon a time there was a "Congress" forum and I remember suggesting a couple of times that the forum should be part of the 'Big forums' so more people would see it and take part, but that never came to pass.

Thx!

[Avalux]

13. I'm Gen-X, not as long for me but I commiserate.

I am doing everything I can so that my millenial daughters and their peers can make the world the way they want it. The future is theirs; just as ours was back then when we were young and invincible.

My generation failed to stop the descent into the madness of capitalism. Remember the junk bond market, and the corporate take-overs and consolidation of mega-corps? I wish we'd had the guts to stand up and stop what was happening then.

[ScreamingMeemie]

24. We don't matter to the millenials and the Boomers.

It's all about them.

[slipslidingaway]

41. Many of us failed on some level to not do more, but we can try and do more now and pass down what ..

we have learned.

I think one of the most important things we can try and instill in our children is to not be sucked into the 'team mentality.' That has not served the majority of people well and the 1% would love for that fight to continue.

[Holly_Hobby]

17. Since Kent State

I knew it was over for good. I was 13.

[slipslidingaway]

42. Just a year or so older than you ...

I cannot remember feeling that it was over, but it sure was a wake up call to not get too far out of line.

[slipslidingaway]

21. Thanks so much everyone for your replies and recs, speaking of 'older folks' they are tired of...

almost always voting for a candidate that does not speak for them.

Fingers crossed for Michigan tonight, either way, he beat expectations and his message is being heard by the young and old.

[Onlooker]

22. Obama wasn't the lesser of two evils. He was a great candidate and did some great things

But, the memories of McGovern run deep. If Bernie wins the nomination and loses the GE, progressive politics is dead again and we'll have either a fascist or a radical Christian leading our nation. If Bernie wins the nomination, we should do all we can to make it happen, but the risks are great, especially for gays, women, Muslims, and people of color. It's tough. I'm a boomer, but only support Sanders by a hair.

[slipslidingaway]

23. I hear your concerns,but also believe we are in a different game with millennials overtaking boomers

in number and their use of social media.

[jillan]

25. My first vote was for Carter. We have all waited too long for a Bernie to come along.

#OldFarts4Bernie

[slipslidingaway]

43. My first vote as well, we have waited too long!

[Stinky The Clown]

27. I will do this cycle what I did last cycle, and the one before that, and the one before that . . . .

I will vote heart in the primary and my head in the general.

[slipslidingaway]

44. It is becoming more difficult to vote with my head, cannot say for sure what I will do ...

but tired of voting according to expectations.

If we are lucky we can vote with our hearts and our heads come November!

[2banon]

29. My first election was in 1972. The result was completely shocking and devastating

And I have been woefully disappointed (in one way or the other) with too many elections ever since. Sometimes I got the results I voted for, only to be woefully disappointed as as my choice turned out to be a big betrayer.

So it has been most of my life in so far as POTUS goes.

I've been waiting all of my adult life for someone like Bernie. And that's the case with nearly ALL of my peeps, music and art community, family and other friends.

Of course, I do live in the Bay Area.. so there's that.

[slipslidingaway]

45. From one coast to the other many people are feeling as you do ...

we finally have a chance to vote For Someone.

Sometimes Opportunity only knocks once, for many people that is now and we have waited such a long time!

[2banon]

46. a friggin lifetime!

[slipslidingaway]

51. Exactly, been decades! :) nt

[Skwmom]

31. It's hard but if you give in THEY WIN.

[slipslidingaway]

47. I know ... nothing worth fighting for is easy or quick :) nt

[Live and Learn]

34. I am very happy tonight. Maybe our children have a chance. nt

[slipslidingaway]

48. I certainly hope so !!!!! nt

[Kip Humphrey]

52. I joined the SDS in 1967/8, sophomore year in HS. but, really since 1964 - Warren Commission.

I've been one pissed off motherfucker ever since!

[slipslidingaway]

55. You are an inspiration to the children of today, instruct when you can, but ...

take time for yourself as well.

[HassleCat]

54. As a democratic socialist for 35 years

I have been waiting a long time for this. I thought I would be long dead before my party gave up its love of big money and the people who throw it around. I thought the time would never come. Now there is a chance. The time may be now. You are correct. This is not a time to be timid.

[slipslidingaway]

57. Never really thought I would be dead, but year after year and then decade after decade ...

passed ... and then along came Bernie

Speak out, work and fight while we can to leave a better world.

[senz]

56. I was all for revolution in the 60s & 70s -- but then realized in the 80s

that those had actually been the good old days. Since Reagan, America has gone to hell in a handbasket. If we, with Bernie, can make the country as livable for the average person as it was back then, fully understanding what went wrong and how to regain and keep our quality of life, our commitment to the value and worth of our fellow human beings, and the seriousness of protecting the life and health of the planet, then the generations that follow should be able to do just fine.

And thank God for the millennials!

[slipslidingaway]

59. 'Those were the days my friend' ...

corporations did not have as much power as they do today. I think some of what we were rebelling against were our parents and the older generation as much as the establishment. Once we moved out and into our own lives some of our sense of rebellion became diminished and we let our guards down ... big mistake.

And yes thank God for the millennials!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. In 1968 I was 24, and after Chicago, I gave up on the notion of Party Loyalty.

I remained a Democrat but my first presidential vote was for the Peace & Freedom candidate.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson

[slipslidingaway]

60. You were a very wise 24 year old and Always have the best quotes ...

thank you for staying steady and contributing to DU!



My team right or wrong ... is wrong.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

68. The lesser of two evils...

There is pretty much no other choice. It is always what it the least evil and the greatest good. There's no one that is 100% pure goodness and just the bomb at everything. Maybe you should look at it as the greatest good instead. It basically means the same thing, but it is more positive.

If you are a Boomer, I'd think your kids would be all grown up and getting pretty darn old themselves. My parents are boomers and I'm pretty much middle aged. I wouldn't listen to a damn thing my parents wanted me to do any more. I know what is best for me know much better than they do. It seems a little late to be encouraging them to do anything if your children are adults and they've been adults for decades already. I suppose you can try to encourage all you want, but I wouldn't expect it to well received if it was unsolicited.

[slipslidingaway]

70. Question is, do you want to live your entire life voting for the lesser of two evils ...

or is there some point at which you say ' I am not playing this game anymore.'

On the late end of the boomers, my children are 30 and 25, they came to their own conclusions on which candidate to support, thankfully I believe they chose the correct candidate.

There was no solicitation by me about candidates, they just know what is right

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

72. I don't think you understand.

The level of perfection that you seek just doesn't exist. It is not a game. It is just the way things are. It is always about the greatest good and the least evil. You're never going to find this perfect person. They all have faults. I will always vote for who I consider to be the greatest good. The only other choice is a lesser good or the least good if we're talking three way race. You can look at negatively and say that is the lesser of the evils. Sure, a lot of people do that. I think that is ignoring the good though. The lesser evil is the greater good. There's not much else to it.

[slipslidingaway]

74. I do not think you understand, striving for a more equitable life for all is not seeking a perfect..

world that will happen over night.

You might say that I am looking at things in a negative light, but as I read your words I could also say that you sound defeated.

Clinton say we cannot do this or that ... Sanders states we need to try. That is a Huge difference!

Many movements for equality in the past were not founded on what they could Not do, but what might be possible.

If you want to try a pin a negative label on someone, please look elsewhere.