2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBoomers, yes us older folks, how long have you gone along with hopes of change ...
and how many years will we continue to Hope and vote for change?
For me it has been 40 plus years.
I do not have an answer, it is a complicated issue, should we always believe in hope for the future and perpetuate the game?
When should we say enough is enough, or do we just die saying we voted for 'the lesser of two evils?'
When do we say we will no longer be willing participants in the games of those who control wealth and power? Do we just put that in our will?
We are very lucky, our children have grown up realizing that someone being different, whether it be race, religion, gender or sexual orientation plays a less important role than the person and what they do each day.
Should we encourage our children to go along with the lesser of two evils as we have done for decades?
Complicated issues, seeing as we have not seen any progress for most people I will encourage my kids to 'shoot for the moon' so to speak. There are times to remain silent and there are times to strive for something better, this is not a time to be timid.
840high
(17,196 posts)how long. I've had it.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)but we are sucked into 'my team' mentality and go along, but for how long?
Many our of friends have had it as well, they are done going along.
840high
(17,196 posts)going along. After the election I'm switching to Independent.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)the system keeps people sucked into their team until we expire, literally!
CNN announces Sanders winner as I type!
RKP5637
(67,083 posts)is hope and then it's the SOS again. And the horrific DLC and that damn herd. Some days I do wonder just WTF party I am in anymore. I've just gotten totally disgusted with it all.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)latest example was the HC bill and all the concessions that were made by the Dem party.
RKP5637
(67,083 posts)blew it. So we get fed, for one example, this HC we're all supposed to think is great. Many democrats today sound more like republicans than the old time democrats even remotely did. Also, we have these ridiculous trade agreements we're supposed to think are great. All I've ever seen is good jobs fleeing the country. Frankly, I am so F'en fed up with it all.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)the finances of many households, but this issue that drains people and drags them down eventually will hurt our country at some point.
Happy to see the trade deals are getting some attention.
Sometimes fed up and sometimes ready to fight.
dchill
(38,432 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)so many in our generation are done with this game.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)then I should have left the party years ago. It had to do with my discussion earlier of being a labor Democrat. PS: it was by someone who has been here since 2006.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)as my daughter told me last month she could easily move to another country if it came to that. After a move to Florida from the NE as an internal medicine doc she registered as Dem last month to vote for Sanders, she will do fine whether here or in another country.
The Dem party has, IMHO, made a big mistake discounting people, we are not puppets.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Been a life-long Democrat, and never voted Republican. It's been going downhill for at least 40 years.
I did leave the party in 2007 after the party broke every campaign promise they made in 2006, and had majorities in both houses. I came back as soon as Bernie announced (Florida has closed primaries). And I'll probably leave again in August after I vote for Alan Grayson.
I'm sick and tired of voting for, "not as bad".
Like the poster above said, after this election, they're on their own. If they choose to elect a candidate that is salivating to screw them, and let Wall Street, Free Trade, Big Oil, Big Pharma, and the prison industrial complex run rampant, let 'em have it. I don't have that much time left, anyway.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)and for coming back, at least temporarily. Sadly, I understand.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)before I die I would like to vote FOR someone.
kath
(10,565 posts)People have been banned if their personal screeds are too hateful and/or too numerous.
Sunshine is a good disinfectant. And along those lines, people have posted nasty PMs that they have received, so that they can be seen by all. Contrary to popular opinion, it is NOT a TOS violation to call someone out for their nasty, over-the-top PMs.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)who do this need to be exposed.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)DLnyc
(2,479 posts)I will no more give that up than I will give up breathing . . . until my time comes to set them both aside.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)my father was a proud Marine in WW II, years later I learned that he offered my male cousins help if they wanted to avoid the draft for the Vietnam war.
Fine lines.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)I was born in 1960, which I think counts as being on the cusp of the baby boom generation.
I don't think we can ever leave politics to the folks inside the beltway. Getting people who support the things I think need supporting elected is just part of the process. I don't pin my hopes on them getting anything done on their own. They need people on the ground to push/support them. Ultimately, I pin my hopes on us.
As a wise friend used to say, we don't need a movement. More of us just need to move. Get involved.
Do I get discouraged? You betcha. Except for voting, I haven't been truly active for a number of years. But when I get out there and work with others, my hope is naturally renewed. In the process, I encounter other people and groups who are out there tackling problems that seem overwhelming... and winning. It's almost impossible to feel hopeless when you witness people in action first hand.
Imagine if we had just 500 citizen lobbyists in each congressional district pestering members of Congress (or staffers) face-to-face, gathering names on petitions, raising money, working on Congressional elections, and so on. That's a mere 0.3% of people who turnout to vote for candidates in the middle or left side of the current (incredible skewed to the right) spectrum. (That's assuming an average district size of 700,000; 75% over 18; 60% voter turnout, and about 50% of those in the middle or left side of the spectrum).
With the support of small contributions, these folks could be paid to work full time on our behalf. We could create a formidable "K street" operation of our own.
Corporate America may have the money, but people on the ground translate to money and power too. I think too many don't believe this right now, but can be "brought around" if we focus on instilling confidence in our own power to effect change.
Putting a leader like Bernie in the White House would be fantastic. But we have to be willing take up the fight on our own if we can't make that happen. One of my fondest wishes is that, regardless of the outcome, people who have been inspired to take action by Bernie's campaign, will be inspired to continue the fight for what he stands for after the campaign is over. Even if he's elected, he can't get the things he wants to get done, done, without a lot of help from "out here."
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)the revolution of involvement is just beginning.
Thanks!
beltanefauve
(1,784 posts)This would be a good OP on it's own.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)I'll think about it (making an OP). Thanks!
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)When I write passionately about the most important of topics, (topics you begin to touch on now) those writings are ignored in favor of repetitive nonsense. I am not a sports writer, and this is no sport.
To answer your question I have gone what seems an eternity without the hope of change, I watch my own generation treat this as a game or sport rather than the life and death it truly represents on a global scale.
I believe much of the reason is that us older generations are more concerned with temporary comfort, most of which those that post here and elsewhere already have, so it becomes a sport, a way to pass time and it is entirely up to millennials to survive a future that without our generation taking a more serious role than it does, they simply will not have, as they will become extinct.
It is not critical to most of us because our time is nearly up anyway, and so we pontificate and occasionally say the right things but do little else but play the game of politics as if it were a sport and not a matter of the survival of our collective grandchildren and even a large portion of our collective children. Our generation does not understand the nature of the urgency for those that are coming up behind us.
I DO, but I believe now more than ever it is because of a sort of madness. I am a realist/masochist hybrid of some unhealthy sort.
I realize now that my time has past, and the millennials are all that stand between them and their own destruction and the destruction of a life sustaining biosphere that we have all but destroyed and are doing nothing to repair.
The Earth is by no means doomed, but much of the life residing on it's loving soil are, including our own species.
I will not go into how writing about this was completely ignored on another site in favor of political sports like nonsense by comfortable people middle aged and upwards as thread after thread some of which were mere jokes passed the topic by and sent the final of a dozen outright unspoken messages that my concerns and writing are not wanted and do not belong there.
But I can reproduce the text of that message for you in the interests of context, because I wrote it here as well, also ignored (although the OP itself dealing with only a small portion was well received, I believe it was only because it spoke unkindly of Hillary and the DNC and I believe for no reason other reason than that), those unkind words were not slanderous but true and I stand by them, but the most important thing I wrote on that thread was ignored here as well as a place I believed was a more progressive stronghold than the current DU. Here as promised for the required context is the post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511420787#post87
Good luck with your OP, perhaps it will help in the battle, actually the revolution, that is needed by the younger generations if it has any chance of survival
Also goodbye to most all of you for now, I may lurk rarely, but my lack of relevance here and elsewhere tells me my posting days are largely over as I lack an audience to recieve my mad ravings, perhaps rightly so
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)in that other post. Keep writing. Needs to be said.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)and I thank many people here who have posted over the years.
You are one of those people!
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)But now I suppose we are.
We used to represent pretty much the average, it saddens me what has happened here. Not just the ever growing Neo-Liberal influence, but the lack of the extremely intelligent and thought provoking posts that were the norm only a decade ago.
The conversations were so intelligent and in depth (and yes much more progressive), that I was little more than a K&R wallflower, as I felt most inadequate to the best of the posters; many of which have either drifted away or been driven off of this site.
When I do actually post something approaching halfway as good as the OPs that once were proliferate here, they are largely ignored or responded to by people that post as if they lack even the most basic knowledge of either politics, or what the party stood for before the Reagan Democrats took over and changed it into the mostly Republican (with a few social modifiers) that it has morphed into..
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)but some good people on DU helped to open my eyes a little more ... we're radicals now
Unfortunately too many forward thinking people left DU, but there are still some old time favorites and very happy to see they support the 'right candidate.'
So we'll have a balance and speak up when we feel something is wrong, but also will seek out other channels and not get too upset by what goes on here.
It is a good night for those not always willing to go along, no matter the ultimate outcome.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Surely the Secret Service, FBI, and NSA are soon to knock on our dangerous doors harboring such Radicals! LOL
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)and also saw that someone alerted. That would have never happened on DU ten plus years ago, of course there were not juries back then so it would have been left up to the mods.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I wonder what the Mods would have done back then? I think they would have not only let it stand but would have posted in it as well, but that is just a guess.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)we have come so far???
But we will move forward.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I post very few OPs for a reason and my long posts (also few) for the same reasons.
I spend a great deal of time, thinking and researching first, then the hard part comes - I pour my heart and soul into them in order to reach people on a level that will actually make them reexamine what I am posting, making them actually feel what others feel or desperately need. There is a certain urgency regarding them that drives the writing of them.
When, as it appears is most of the time, it falls on only deaf ears or those whom have already reached that point and do not need my words to help them to see. It takes a toll on me, a very great toll, meanwhile, I watch posts full of misinformation or meaningless rhetoric that say in essence nothing at all receive the eyes, ears and souls of those I fail to reach and so I feel useless, obsolete and very much so, irrelevant.
I don't mind if one disagrees in part or in full the premise or presentation I use in those OPs; if they at least show me the honor of doing so intelligently and do so with as much from their hearts and souls as I, in fact, I learn oft-times from such exchanges, where my thoughts are a bit off or even fully mistaken - challenging me to rethink and re-examine within my heart that produced the writing being challenged and my mind that conceives them.
Lately, I feel very much irrelevant. I have tried to explain to you why.
That no one was reached by, or even felt anything from this post, as it received not even a single reply, Something inside me simply cemented the feeling of my new found irrelevance.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I hope you enjoy it, I decided to post it largely because you asked me, and rather nicely and so decided perhaps there is at least one set of eyes left willing to read my rumination, conclusions and opinions.
Thanks for that, Judging form the response, I may yet hold some relevance to those that want my voice, as rare and humble as it may be.
Here I posted it for you, but it is about things that I dig the deepest to find, the things I feel most passionate about my people, my lower class and My experience:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511460602
lunasun
(21,646 posts)So you may not really know how many people, how many sets of eyes, are on your postings.
Hope that doesn't sound stalker like
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)grew up in a Democratic Party household in Kansas...still have LBJ stickers and buttons from my parents working the Democratic Party's storefront in '64...
Eisenhower was from Kansas and my dad always said, 'He's about the only goddam Republican I have ever seen that could have been a Democrat."
1968 was bad for the Party and it didn't fix anything...and here we are in the result of that long journey to rediscover Democratic Party ideals....
Jesus, as flawed as LBJ was he would be a breath of fresh life-giving air to the party today...the Third Way/DLC crew would be in the Republican Party where they belong and we would at least have leadership fighting for what the Democratic Party always stood for...
FDR, Truman, JFK, RFK, LBJ, McGovern, Carter...then it all changed...we lost, then we got 'corrected' to be like the victors, and now we are barely noticeable...
barely, but there is a light and a voice and more and more people are seeing and hearing them...
we can bring the Party back...but the resistance of the Third Way and those who never knew what the Party stood for is strong...
on the other hand...the Republican Party will soon be looking for, and happy to receive, any new recruits to their right-center-right ways...
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)enough to change things for the better. Unfortunately they are looking more closely into the eyes of climate change and limited resources, but they also have social media to help motivate people.
Guess our mission is to guide them as best we can, we have had this discussion with our children that Sanders is the first candidate in decades that we Support.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)If we are not lobbying our leaders before and during their times in office, we aren't doing our jobs.
Canvass for the best candidates, but don't relax after the election. Big Money is working against us 24/7, so we must be tireless, too.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)for a vote, that people remain involved and urged people to take party in calling their elected officials.
Once upon a time there was a "Congress" forum and I remember suggesting a couple of times that the forum should be part of the 'Big forums' so more people would see it and take part, but that never came to pass.
Thx!
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I am doing everything I can so that my millenial daughters and their peers can make the world the way they want it. The future is theirs; just as ours was back then when we were young and invincible.
My generation failed to stop the descent into the madness of capitalism. Remember the junk bond market, and the corporate take-overs and consolidation of mega-corps? I wish we'd had the guts to stand up and stop what was happening then.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)It's all about them.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)we have learned.
I think one of the most important things we can try and instill in our children is to not be sucked into the 'team mentality.' That has not served the majority of people well and the 1% would love for that fight to continue.
Holly_Hobby
(3,033 posts)I knew it was over for good. I was 13.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)I cannot remember feeling that it was over, but it sure was a wake up call to not get too far out of line.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)almost always voting for a candidate that does not speak for them.
Fingers crossed for Michigan tonight, either way, he beat expectations and his message is being heard by the young and old.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)But, the memories of McGovern run deep. If Bernie wins the nomination and loses the GE, progressive politics is dead again and we'll have either a fascist or a radical Christian leading our nation. If Bernie wins the nomination, we should do all we can to make it happen, but the risks are great, especially for gays, women, Muslims, and people of color. It's tough. I'm a boomer, but only support Sanders by a hair.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)in number and their use of social media.
jillan
(39,451 posts)#OldFarts4Bernie
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,757 posts)I will vote heart in the primary and my head in the general.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)but tired of voting according to expectations.
If we are lucky we can vote with our hearts and our heads come November!
2banon
(7,321 posts)And I have been woefully disappointed (in one way or the other) with too many elections ever since. Sometimes I got the results I voted for, only to be woefully disappointed as as my choice turned out to be a big betrayer.
So it has been most of my life in so far as POTUS goes.
I've been waiting all of my adult life for someone like Bernie. And that's the case with nearly ALL of my peeps, music and art community, family and other friends.
Of course, I do live in the Bay Area.. so there's that.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)we finally have a chance to vote For Someone.
Sometimes Opportunity only knocks once, for many people that is now and we have waited such a long time!
2banon
(7,321 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)I've been one pissed off motherfucker ever since!
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)take time for yourself as well.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I have been waiting a long time for this. I thought I would be long dead before my party gave up its love of big money and the people who throw it around. I thought the time would never come. Now there is a chance. The time may be now. You are correct. This is not a time to be timid.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)passed ... and then along came Bernie
Speak out, work and fight while we can to leave a better world.
senz
(11,945 posts)that those had actually been the good old days. Since Reagan, America has gone to hell in a handbasket. If we, with Bernie, can make the country as livable for the average person as it was back then, fully understanding what went wrong and how to regain and keep our quality of life, our commitment to the value and worth of our fellow human beings, and the seriousness of protecting the life and health of the planet, then the generations that follow should be able to do just fine.
And thank God for the millennials!
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)corporations did not have as much power as they do today. I think some of what we were rebelling against were our parents and the older generation as much as the establishment. Once we moved out and into our own lives some of our sense of rebellion became diminished and we let our guards down ... big mistake.
And yes thank God for the millennials!!!
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I remained a Democrat but my first presidential vote was for the Peace & Freedom candidate.
"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)thank you for staying steady and contributing to DU!
My team right or wrong ... is wrong.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)There is pretty much no other choice. It is always what it the least evil and the greatest good. There's no one that is 100% pure goodness and just the bomb at everything. Maybe you should look at it as the greatest good instead. It basically means the same thing, but it is more positive.
If you are a Boomer, I'd think your kids would be all grown up and getting pretty darn old themselves. My parents are boomers and I'm pretty much middle aged. I wouldn't listen to a damn thing my parents wanted me to do any more. I know what is best for me know much better than they do. It seems a little late to be encouraging them to do anything if your children are adults and they've been adults for decades already. I suppose you can try to encourage all you want, but I wouldn't expect it to well received if it was unsolicited.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)or is there some point at which you say ' I am not playing this game anymore.'
On the late end of the boomers, my children are 30 and 25, they came to their own conclusions on which candidate to support, thankfully I believe they chose the correct candidate.
There was no solicitation by me about candidates, they just know what is right
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)The level of perfection that you seek just doesn't exist. It is not a game. It is just the way things are. It is always about the greatest good and the least evil. You're never going to find this perfect person. They all have faults. I will always vote for who I consider to be the greatest good. The only other choice is a lesser good or the least good if we're talking three way race. You can look at negatively and say that is the lesser of the evils. Sure, a lot of people do that. I think that is ignoring the good though. The lesser evil is the greater good. There's not much else to it.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)world that will happen over night.
You might say that I am looking at things in a negative light, but as I read your words I could also say that you sound defeated.
Clinton say we cannot do this or that ... Sanders states we need to try. That is a Huge difference!
Many movements for equality in the past were not founded on what they could Not do, but what might be possible.
If you want to try a pin a negative label on someone, please look elsewhere.