2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Tries to Explain His 'Ghetto' Comment — And Made Things Even Worse
Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)
More of Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders' racial blindspots are showing.
During a CNN debate on Sunday night, Sanders said that white Americans don't know "what it's like to be living in a ghetto and to be poor" assuming that all black people lived in ghettos and were poor, which is a gross misunderstanding of how racism in America actually works.
But when NBC News asked Sanders to elaborate on his comments, he dug himself into an even deeper hole. "What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you're talking about is African-American communities." Which, again, is wrong. Not all of black America is poor, and racism works across the spectrum of class.
Read more:
http://mic.com/articles/137268/bernie-sanders-tries-to-explain-his-ghetto-comment-and-made-things-even-worse#.1SWoCZMR7
stonecutter357
(12,682 posts)msongs
(67,199 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)This is unfortunate. When I lived in "the ghetto" it was majority Latino.
I'm reminded of the show Talking Funny where Jerry Seinfeld tells one of his early jokes which mentioned the ghetto. Chris Tucker is there and is gobsmacked at the use of the word, and there's an obvious consensus that it's outdated terminology.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)pat_k
(9,313 posts)His clarification, based on the traditional use of the term, is actually correct. But, the traditional use is a problematic generalization, which I wish he had pointed out. Indicator of traditional usage found on Wikipedia:
I don't think there is much argument that his statements are not a problem. Clearly, the way he expressed himself was offensive to at least some of his potential supporters, intended or not. And that's a problem.
I'm not trying to smear. I'm a Bernie supporter. As such, I wish he hadn't expressed himself so unfortunately.
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)Wikipedia's legitimacy as an information source notwithstanding, you neglected to include the following:
The term was originally used in Venice to describe the part of the city to which Jews were restricted and segregated.
Source
pat_k
(9,313 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)There is no question about it, when we use the word ghetto in modern day, we mean a poor minority area, often African American. Anyone that denies this is a liar.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)That seems to be the problem here. The 'we' is primarily a thoughtless and marginalising 'we' that should know how to choose their words better.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Spacedog1973
(221 posts)When you say 'we' you are implying others. Who is this 'we'? Do you think it encompasses everyone? Are you really that arrogant? Not everyone shares your basic labelling of others and would take offence of your claiming that they share your own narrow views. Try thinking before you type at least once.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Your attempt to play stupid about what "we" implies in order to have a phony argument to cling to is pathetic. You can save your lectures for someone that gives a shit.
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)Only 29% of African Americans live in poverty. Odd that a Jewish man would fail to link ghettos to their true historical and traditional meaning.
ejbr
(5,852 posts)one is talking about poor black communities. It is our society's inference about the word. More importantly, what about those transcripts?
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)I grew up in one of those ghettos and you know who lived there? Blacks, whites, hispanics and even some south east Indians. When any of us refer (and referred) to the ghetto, we met just that here in Vegas. Demographically it was the poor. We looked after each other regardless of race, ethnicity, or national origin.
ejbr
(5,852 posts)does not allow you to claim my ignorance when it comes to our society's perception of who lives in a ghetto. If you are so confident that does NOT imply poor blacks in our present day, then I dare you to claim something is "so ghetto" in front of a random group of African Americans. See how that turns out.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I find the word 'only' to be not exactly the right fit....
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/americas-poverty-problem/405700/
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)I'll not bicker back and forth with you over semantics. As an African American well aware of how things once were in this country, it is disingenuous to not point out the achievement the majority Black Americans have made in moving up and out of poverty. Thank you very much.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)some minority groups. You think that's somehow acceptable, yet you parse and split the hairs looking for offense in others.
Senator Hillary Clinton, 2004: " I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman....the fundamental bedrock principle that marriage exists between a man and a woman, going back into the midst of history as one of the founding, foundational institutions of history and humanity and civilization, and that its primary, principal role during those millennia has been the raising and socializing of children for the society into which they are to become adults.
On DOMA, and this is on tape at the link: " "I would have voted for it at that time but I think to go back and talk about DOMA now especially...is something that is divisive..... Because I believe marriage means something different. Marriage is about a historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been between a man and a woman."
http://www.wnyc.org/story/tale-tape-hillary-clintons-gay-evolution/
So you know, that's who and what you support so this need to find mud to sling, it's understandable. I have no idea how I'd go about promoting a candidate who opposed the rights of minority groups. You guys keep finding ways to do so. Creepy ways, but you find them.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I'd be embarrassed to promote this duplicitious shit if my own candidate had the worse record.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Saying that the term "ghettos" is usually a reference to neighborhoods which are poor and black doesn't equate to saying "all of black America is poor."
Nor does it equate to denying "racism works across the spectrum of class."
During last night's debate, Bernie Sanders mentioned a black Congressman in the 1990s who couldn't hail a taxi in DC because taxis wouldn't stop for him. Bernie Sanders knows that "racism works across the spectrum of class."
bigtree
(85,919 posts)...I suspect many folks are just tuning him out now.
He's as tone deaf as many of his supporters defending him on this. Don't listen to what the black community is saying, just make up your own excuse and go with that.
His campaign can't end soon enough for me.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)... right to their face? Would you call that being not tone deaf?
I'm not even one of the anti Hillary people around here. But the double standard applied by some of you folks is astounding. I don't see how you can live with your hypocrisy but likely you are too blinded with your own near religious support for one particular candidate to even realize it exists.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)The "Not Good Enough Bernie" campaign started the day after he announced his candidacy.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...or as a presidential candidate with regard to racial issues which you'd have approved of?
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Yes, when we say ghetto in America, in the year 2016, we almost always mean a poor, pre-dominantly African American part of a city. Out west, there are some areas where its applied to poor, Hispanic parts of a city. It almost always means one minority or the other.
Stop making a fucking mountain out of a mole hill.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)He should have apologized, not awkwardly try explain why he used the term.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)was on yesterday afternoon and explained that he understood fully what Bernie meant and that further, he knew Bernie has "a good heart." Maybe he used old language, but he was still correct. Just in case you don't know, Mr.Lemon is black.
BumRushDaShow
(127,317 posts)"Ghetto" is so 50 years ago... corresponding to the era when he was last involved in urban America, afterwhich he fled for rural New England and left all that behind.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I really didn't think he was quite that clueless.
BumRushDaShow
(127,317 posts)when he was last involved with it, meaning all of his terminology and his primary reference points, are from that time. However many decades later, once he left it all behind for greener pastures (literally), he missed the eras of "urban renewal" and "gentrification", and "environmental racism" (although his support of moving VT's nuclear waste to poor areas of TX illustrates what many talk about regarding "environmental racism" .... let alone his missing that most if not all of the wealthiest blacks, experience the same sorts of day to day insults, disrespect, mishandling by LEO, and discrimination that the very poorest amongst us suffer from.
So "economics" is irrelevant when you are a POC.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Could it be because the majority of his ancestors were inhabitants of one? Can it be because his father was a survivor of the holocaust?
Can it be that he draws on stories that were told him by his parents regarding that history and relates the plight of millions of African Americans to the plight of his people? If you read the following paragraph, it can fit the situation in many neighborhoods in this nation, mostly AA and Latino. Oh yes, many of us have made it out of situations like that, or think we have, and many of us can now afford to think of ourselves as better than those who haven't. I ask you, who needs help the most those of us that have been able to miraculously succeed or those of us who haven't? I believe it is those that haven't that Bernie is referring to.
~~~~~
Life in the ghettos was usually unbearable. Overcrowding was common. One apartment might have several families living in it. Plumbing broke down, and human waste was thrown in the streets along with the garbage. Contagious diseases spread rapidly in such cramped, unsanitary housing. People were always hungry. Germans deliberately tried to starve residents by allowing them to purchase only a small amount of bread, potatoes, and fat. Some residents had some money or valuables they could trade for food smuggled into the ghetto; others were forced to beg or steal to survive. During the long winters, heating fuel was scarce, and many people lacked adequate clothing. People weakened by hunger and exposure to the cold became easy victims of disease; tens of thousands died in the ghettos from illness, starvation, or cold. Some individuals killed themselves to escape their hopeless lives.
https://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007708
~~~~~
Yes Bernie is an older white man who has fought his entire life for equality, among the rich and poor the black and white and everything in between. If you think he made a mistake, or if you think his speech is a bit antiquated I ask, what has that got to do with his concern about our community, but not just our community, all communities that are suffering in this nation. I am trying to see the big picture, and that picture says that on Bernie Sanders worse day he is much better than HRC when it comes to past history of helping the African American community...all communities for that matter.
dr60omg
(283 posts)monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Welcome to DU!
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)Especially the excerpt. I don't often read the longer posts, but yours immediately caught my eye. Your last paragraph is essentially what Don Lemon, the original questioner from CNN, said about it. Luvvvvvvvvvvvvv
dr60omg
(283 posts)Bernie's family is from Poland. The majority of his father's family were part of the genocide committed in Europe. I am 60 but I also grew up with words like extermination, fascism, concentration camp, numbers and GHETTO
It is the same sort of lexicon when you ask a Southerner to try to say something other than y'all
When he said traditionally he also meant traditionally in the US YES people seem to forget the vernacular used and that was common it has nothing to do with social class it has to do with a group of people separated out .... there may be more contemporary vernacular but come on
Judge a person by their deeds and their language combined .... if their is incommensurability that is called a gaffe since his deeds differ from the language used and again look up what the word ghetto means to Jews growing up after the war. So, he made a gaffe correct him let's not forget what he was doing and has been doing his entire life