A thought about abortion I'd like to share with Hillary supporters

[kristopher]

The 3rd trimester issue is one where whimsical decisions are what is feared most. If the mother's life is in danger or the fetus isn't viable few would want to stand in the way of a woman and her doctor's difficult and well thought out decision.

Before I get to my main point let me also say the I believe we can't take the law much beyond full access without running substantial risks of compromising the right of women to control their health and lives. Any legislative encroachment presumes a state apparatus that is better at evaluating the circumstances and deciding the appropriate course of action than the mother and her doctor. I don't believe that presumption is valid.

And what would such prohibitions actually do even if everything went perfectly for everyone and the only abortions avoided were whimsical travesties of the human conscience. (Please don't attack on this point as I'm not endorsing any legislation or restrictions).

How many abortions wouldn't happen IF such perfect restrictions could be crafted and enforced without stepping onto the slippery slope of where we came from? I don't know that answer, but bear the scale in mind, please.

Now, compare your concern for those lives that would be positively impacted by such legislation with the number of lives changed by a land where women have equal pay; good affordable health care; a living wage; sound schools; paid family leave; and a strong social safety net.

Again, I don't have a number to attach to the thought should the policies that Bernie is (really and truly going to fight for) be enacted; but I'm 100% sure that the impact on abortion would be to effect a huge reduction as the pressures of living are adjusted to place the individual and family first.

If reducing abortion is a moral issue that you care about, then a candidate that is focused on rebuilding the economy around the family unit is unquestionably the way you should be voting.

[SheilaT]

1. The underlying and completely unexamined assumption is that

a lot of women have abortions for completely whimsical reasons. They don't.

Yes, there are women who wind up regretting their abortions, but one person's regret shouldn't me more important than another person's life situation.

Here's the other unexamined assumption: Birth control never fails. It does. Even when used perfectly, and a lot of methods aren't used perfectly.

In the end, it comes down to this: It's the woman who is pregnant. She's the one who will give birth, have a miscarriage, an abortion, maybe give birth to a severely deformed child. Just because I, or someone else would choose to have a child in some specific circumstances, say rape or incest, does not give anyone else the right to force another woman to have the baby under such circumstances. Period.

However, I can tell you are caring about the inequalities and such, but even in a perfect world, with all of the things you said (pay, health care, and so on), there are still going to be unwanted or problematical pregnancies. Which means abortion will always be with us, as it always had.

[kristopher]

4. If you read carefully

...you'll see I'm clear that I unequivocally reject any government restrictions on a woman's control of her health. I'm attempting to speak to those who don't think as we do.

[SheilaT]

9. So if you unequivocally reject any government restrictions,

what exactly is the point of your OP? To me it reads rather like a pious breast-beating of someone who supposedly supports the woman's right to control her own body, and yet you seem to want to restrict third trimester abortions. If you truly support no restrictions, then what are you asking? That those third trimester abortions be restricted? Do you honestly think that the abortion rates would drop that precipitously if we were in the perfect world of free and excellent health care and a living wage for all? There are lots of things that go into the abortion decision at any point in the pregnancy, and no one but the mother, a medical professional, and possibly her partner, is entitled to any participation in or restrictions on that decision.

[kristopher]

11. Learn to read SheilaT.

I'm quite sure your opinion is entirely an internal product of your own emotions and beliefs. Your words have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the pixels I placed on your screen. However, I do thank you for the outstanding demonstration of how rooted you are in divisiveness.

[Avalux]

2. Abortion is an outpatient MEDICAL PROCEDURE. Religion needs to stay the fuck out.

If a woman chooses to terminate her pregnancy by undergoing this procedure, that should be her right. Women don't WANT to have abortions. It's a very difficult decision most often, there should be easy access without people deciding if or when she can have it done based on their religious beliefs. She should not be forced to have a child because there is no access.

If men got pregnant, you can damn well bet there would be an abortion clinic on every street corner.

I agree that Bernie as president would help substantially; ideally with a single payer health care system that covered abortions.

[grossproffit]

3. If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Would Be a Sacrament.

[Avalux]

6. That's probably closer to the truth.

Nothing makes me angrier than men telling women what to do with their bodies. It screams "we own you".

[kristopher]

7. What does broad-based economic servitude for all scream to you?

[kristopher]

5. Do you have a thought about the issue I raised for those who disagree with us?

[Avalux]

8. What is your main issue?

You obviously don't agree with late term abortions unless there's a medical problem. It seems you are advocating for easy access, yet still want restrictions to a point, and you want to reduce the number of abortions.

We need to teach little girls about their bodies and that they're in control so they have the confidence to make decisions regardless of what men want. They need to learn about birth control and stds before becoming sexually active in a way that is not stigmatized. Then they need to learn about what an abortion entails, and they need to know they can get one if needed, without being ostracized.

Maybe that would help to reduce the number of abortions.

Here in Texas, the new abortion law has definitely reduced the number of legal abortions. Women will still find ways to do it that could kill them, and that's what needs to stop.

[kristopher]

10. My main issue is actually improving reading comprehension among the masses.

I'm very sure there is no way to determine from what I wrote the beliefs you attribute to me. The point I was crystal clear about was my unequivocal support for the woman's right to choose.

Everything else in your response is either tangential to the OP or an outright diversion. Thank you for contributing for the divisive atmosphere that the Clinton campaign has been promoting.


Vote for Bernie to improve all of our lives. The area of abortion is only one example.