HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Revolution in Perception

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:08 AM

Revolution in Perception

One of the greatest American political philosophers was Minister Malcolm X. Especially after he left the Nation of Islam (NOI), Malcolm became far more politically active. While he took a global view, he would also take an active interest in local events. He was encouraging black people to register to vote. He advocated registering as “independent,” rather than as a Democrat or republican. Still, those politicians that he associated with were all Democrats.

More, after leaving the NOI, Malcolm began focusing on politics in a more progressive way. For example, he spoke frequently about equality between the sexes, something that was in direct contradiction to the NOI‘s official stance. Also, in terms of economics, he noted that many of the countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia were benefiting from socialism.

Just as his working with Democrats did not make Malcolm a Democrat, or working with Baptists make Malcolm a Baptist, his relationship with socialists did not make Malcolm a socialist. Rather, it is evidence of the open-mindedness that allowed him to recognize the human beings behind labels, it increased his ability to work in cooperation with a number of groups and individuals.

Among this self-educated leader’s most notable talents was to use models of systems to help illustrate the facts and truths he wanted to communicate to the public. I’m not sure if I’ve ever mentioned it here on DU, but I like the study of systems, and use of models, myself. And, since my collection of Malcolm-related books, magazine articles, albums, etc, goes back to when I first learned of him in 1964, I’d speculate that he sparked my interest in this form of education.

Malcolm often told his co-workers to “make it simple.” And he had a knack for doing just that. On the topic of if either political party in the US could bring about social justice, Malcolm said that a system could not produce something foreign to its make-up. The example he gave was that a chicken could not possibly lay a duck egg. The hen’s system was only capable of laying a chicken egg.

I believe that it is accurate to say that, for the vast majority of Bernie Sanders’s supporters, Malcolm’s model works. We would like to believe that Hillary Clinton, if she becomes the Democratic Party’s nominee this year, would be capable of producing meaningful changes that provide for social justice. Yet, for many good and sincere citizens, that is viewed as no more likely than Chicken Little laying a duck egg.

Thus, the question that I must ask -- in all sincerity -- to those who support Hillary is: how would you expect those supporting Bernie to help, should she get the nomination?

And I’m not suggesting that only my friends who support Hillary Clinton respond. I’m up for a civil conversation with any of the others. Just as I’d welcome any input from Bernie’s supporters.

I’ve noted that, from our viewpoint, it seems evident that too many in Clinton’s campaign take an insulting “thanks, but no thanks” attitude towards us. That “you have no where else to go” approach, that rarely results in warm, fuzzy feelings.

If Bernie wins the nomination, some Hillary supporters will then vote for Sanders, and others won’t. Just as if Hillary wins the nomination, some Sanders’s supporters would vote for her in November, and other would not. No one can say what the exact numbers, and their impact, are at this time.

So, I ask the Hillary Clinton supporters: If you were someone like me, how would you encourage people who dislike Hillary to vote for her?

I can think of one good reason -- the US Supreme Court. No sane person wants Ted Cruz influencing who gets appointed. I say this as a person who lost a lot of respect for the USSC in 2000. It’s still a huge issue. Still. it is a lot easier for me to present a case for people to support and vote for Sanders, than Clinton

I’m curious what other approaches people might see. Thank you for your comsideration.

Peace,
H2O Man

9 replies, 899 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 9 replies Author Time Post
Reply Revolution in Perception (Original post)
H2O Man Mar 2016 OP
Old Codger Mar 2016 #1
H2O Man Mar 2016 #3
MisterP Mar 2016 #2
H2O Man Mar 2016 #5
tk2kewl Mar 2016 #4
H2O Man Mar 2016 #6
malthaussen Mar 2016 #7
Armstead Mar 2016 #8
bigtree Mar 2016 #9

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:20 AM

1. For meat least

 

If it comes down to it nothing but stark raving fear of the consequences of any of the current crop of gop candidates. But that is the only thing that will get me to vote for her.

If they actually want this to all come together they might start by disavowing the ones that are posting here with their demeaning, denigrating name calling, and that goes for both sides. I see schisms here that will probably never be completely healed.. I know I will have a hard time forgetting and forgiving many of them...I know that some of them have done so already but don't seem to want to or maybe they are trying but to no avail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Old Codger (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:44 AM

3. Well said.

Thank you.

I favor having both candidates lay their cards out on the table, openly and honestly. And their supporters doing the same thing. But that doesn't happen enough. And I consider each of the republican candidates to be very toxic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:40 AM

2. the mainstream says politics was X vs. MLK: turns it out was X and MLK vs. the guys who killed them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MisterP (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:20 AM

5. "Truth crushed to earth

will rise again." -- MLK

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:00 AM

4. For me Hillary would have to make some bold statements about her cabinet make up

 

I need to be convinced that she is turning away from neoliberal economic policy and away from neocon foreign policy. It will take something big to convince me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tk2kewl (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 01:27 AM

6. Right.

I talk with some union carpenters. Most of them are registered independents. They experience the world differently than me, but they are decent people, and I enjoy talking with them.

Perhaps not surprisingly, while their union is endorsing Hillary, it's unlikely she get more than 5% of the workers' votes. Most of them like Donald Trump. I normally do not consider Trump supporters intellectually stimulating. But these guys asked me two questions:

Between Clinton and Trump, who favored "trade deals" that cost Americans' jobs, and who favors keeping jobs here? And which one is more likely to engage the US military in a significantly larger role in the Middle East?

The question of the USSC is easily answered. Those other two are hard.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:34 AM

7. Well, as to outsourcing...

... Mr Trump has outsourced manufacturing to China personally. Mrs Clinton has not, but then she also isn't a manufacturer. But you know, it is really not politicians who make these decisions, although they may facilitate them with agreements. The truth really is, that American workers are pretty much screwed no matter what, unless some barrier is erected to outsourcing. Fortunately for your carpenter friends, the issue pretty much doesn't arise, as they are not manufacturing workers.

-- Mal

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:38 AM

8. The perpetual and only answer IMO -- She's not a Republican

 

I support Sanders and strongly dislike Clinton.

But she's still far preferable to any Republican.So...

However, as the perpetual selling point for the Democrats, that does wear thin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:45 AM

9. we'll have a campaign against the republican nominee

...there will be quite a lot to defend against. That's not new to this election. Americans won't be choosing between two Democratic ideals, like we're debating in this primary.

I would hope those who express concern for progressive initiatives and defend civil rights and civil liberties will consider how these would fare under a republican presidency.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread